Large Normal 216 - Endgame

[AP]

Flavor Leaf is aligned with the town

The PERFECT IC EVER!

VOTE: RCE

You're not gonna get away from me twice!
*Checks to make sure his properly dressed*
Yep. This time I didn't forget.

[AP]

Hmmm, by the end of page 4 it looks like I'm very popular for some reason.
*Checking he's all dressed up AGAIN*
Nah. It also doesn't feel that could either. Must be my mojo.

[AP]

What was the wagon on ap for, by the way?

Jealousy, I suppose. Although I'm wondering if it's my mojo or my perfect teeth that's driving them nuts.

[AP]

Hi AP

RCE is town I think

You mean town town, or the other way around? You were Frau Farbissina of late. What makes you think I can trust you off the gate this time around?

[AP]

AP:
1) are you scumreading RCE or voting him for memes?
2) who are you scumreading?

1) So far I have nothing to work with, so it's a meme
2) Also nobody yet. I intend to spend some time enjoying myself (including some "undercover" work ) before I get serious and start getting reads. Btw, have I introduced myself yet? DO you want to go somewhere a little bit more quiet to do some testing?

[AP]

VOTE: AP

Fine!

VOTE: DVa

I LOOOOOVE OMGUS!

[AP]

Does an AP wagon truly need a reason?

You're gonna learn to read me right the hard way. (Unless -of course- if you've rolled scum again)

[AP]

profii you're not as obvtown as I expected

also this AP kid is the bomb, please don't kill them

Huh?

Wait! Isn't that what you did here..?

I HAVE TO PRESS ENTER LIKE 5 TIMES JESUS

Guys Unvote implosion yallre redicilus

What are the chances you would do the same <obvious> thing in two back-to-back games?

[AP]

Come on, you just played against scum!him

And I walked right past him, which is why I can't tell the difference.

[AP]

I mean, I was assering he was Town in that game, so when I see him as NAI here I have to be on my guards.

[AP]

DO you want to go somewhere a little bit more quiet to do some testing?

???

AP = AUSTIN POWERS. Got it? It's a meme. Same as:

Spoiler:

just a little more subtle (You know I'm not as comfortable actually saying some of the stuff AP's supposed to, so I try to tone it down a bit especially with someone I'm not sure will get it's a mere joke. I'd be more explicit addressing someone who knows and fully understands this is a meme account and expect them to actually roll with it).

[AP]

DO you want to go somewhere a little bit more quiet to do some testing?

???

The quote messed up somehow, my mistake . It was supposed to be questioning why ap said that

I've just explained it. DVa might not appreciate the direct Austin Powers quote, so I refined it to fit.

[AP]

oh yeah he's really gonna notice it now that you bolded it

Creature is perceptive. He would never ever ever skip like 10 pages and then ask if we have done anything yet. NEVER EVER!

[AP]

Oh, btw... do I need to catch up? Is there anything important in these pages?

[AP]

that's how bad his jokes are

You're banned from all AP future installments.

Oh, and Mr Beans movies too!

[AP]

Levity is fine, but I'd like him to do more than meme and omgus.

Oh, I

knew

you had eyes for me.

(I just hope the're not "give us the ring, my precious" eyes.)



And I can do more. All in due time, my dear. All in due time indeed.

[AP]

Does an AP wagon truly need a reason?

You're gonna learn to read me right the hard way. (Unless -of course- if you've rolled scum again)

can we policy this?

Nos, it's me.. Almost50.. you can do better than that. No?

[AP]

I'm new to large normals, so is it natural for it to get this many posts in such a short time?

I swear I saw someone say the exact same thing recently. I just can't remember who or where.

[AP]

OK, having seen the Nos vs Seph debacle I find myself obliged to apologize for the one I had with Seph in the previous game. It does look good from inside your shell, but ssing it from the outside I can see how that confuses everyone as hell.

Preliminary read is that this is a TvT, but I'm slightly more confident in the Seph read at this time. Nos and I will have to sort each other sometime soon if they're town.

@Nos: for some reason, everytime you type "ct" I go back to page #1 to verify CheekyTeeky is not in the game.

[AP]

Seph - Nos slapfight seems like both town.

I'd be more confident about Sephiroth.

Heh! I just said that! Wanna be my ally?

On second thought, forget that. I never do allies. I aim to misbehave!

[AP]

I wanted to policy lynch AP coming into this game but he's growing on me now.

You have to admit the whole thing is a little charming.

The thing though is he's ALWAYS charming , like BlueBloodedToffee

OK.. now you're both making me blush. I think I've just got the incentive to try a little harder at solving the game.

Gimme a few..

[AP]

xx2008/

Carcalilly

/Maxous/Garmr/Inferno390/Creature/FA_Q2/

Shattiel

/Completly Trustworthy/Flubbernugget/DVa

This is how my "unsorted" lynch pool looks like. The others are either TRs or Town leans for now.

Out of the crowd I'm slightly more pinged by the bolded. Carca basically for doing the exact same thing she did in a recent previous game when she was scum and tried to fake a connection with a town slot. Shattiel bc I suspect this to be someone I know and the 2nd post of hers (she only posted 2) is somewhat worrying if my guess is correct.

Of the two I'd give Shattiel a bit more time, but if this lurking continues and she only pops up to say "hi, I'm here, greetings," and so forth I suggest to lynch with fire. Also if she decides to completely vanish off the face of the planet we should lynch the slot. (If anyone knows for sure who Shattiel is and can confirm she's

not the person I'm describing

step up now, please).

Also keeping an eye on Creature. It's not the count of his posts, but rather the content. So far it's a lot of noise so it's NAI, because that's how he would start the game as either alignment of late. As Town though he will provide some reads and commit to them (sometimes spot on, sometimes garbage reads, but he will commit to them and argue for his PoV). As scum he still finds it hard to come up with a good reason to vote anyone, so there's that.

I need more time to try and sort Maxous, FA_Q2 & Flubber. I can't promise I'll ever return a confident read on the likes of Garmr, Inferno & DVa, but we will see.

xx & CT I'll leave for someone else to sort.

[AP]

Hi, I'm here

But are you.

no u

OK, forget everything I said about Shattiel. They're clearly not the person I had in mind.

[AP]

Flubb seems new and I'm bad at reading newbies but he's prob town.

??? Flubber?? NEW????

[AP]

You know, Flubber? You should put that in your signature, probably!

[AP]

profii you're not as obvtown as I expected

also this AP kid is the bomb, please don't kill them

Huh?

Wait! Isn't that what you did here..?

I HAVE TO PRESS ENTER LIKE 5 TIMES JESUS

Guys Unvote implosion yallre redicilus

What are the chances you would do the same <obvious> thing in two back-to-back games?

I'm a consistent and predictable person.

AP I actually have no idea what connection you're trying to make there

First she says she's consistent, then she claims she doesn't know what I'm saying!!!

VOTE: Carca

I thought it was OBVIOUS what I was getting at. Scum!you did just that to Town!Implo at the start of that game.

[AP]

I can sheep ofrhz because I'm too lazy to make my own case but I didn't like flubbers posts to begin with :>

VOTE: flubbernugget

Vote fixed. Please try to vote correctly.

So this means Flubber is Town. Right?

[AP]

I am only caught up to the early nos/seph interaction, which reads like scum theater to me. It started as an argument about bolding a name (uhhhh) and then turned into really shallow snipes at each other about who has more game forwarding content. Neither of them tried reading into motivations for the way each is posting.

.. Or he's scum and Carca is distancing??

[AP]

So this is a pretty big lynch pool. Even for a wip. I am going to be paying close attention to how it gets whittled down.

What does it mean to have players in it that you cant sort? And why cant you sort them?

It is. I just copied the whole player list then edited out the ones I don't want to lynch today.

And I can't sort some players because I don't have a clue of how they'd go about being scum. Usually when I try nto force myself to sort players from that category I end up SRing their TPR play (or -less commonly- TR them for thinking they are PRs but have no idea how to explain the TR w.o. tipping off my hand).

[AP]

....is AP an alt or

Stop. He's Almost50. But he deliberately roleplays on this account which is the reason he was at L-7 before posting.

You're the love of my life (in addition to Tanya, Melissa, Ashley, Zoe, Brenda, Samantha, Maggy, Jenn, Liz, Tina, and a few others)

[AP]

Regarding your view on shattiel, I think your post is kind of scummy, because at the point of this post, shattiel has only made two posts. I very slightly feel like you're trying to shade shattiel with your post.

Like, can you reread that particular paragraph I wrote about Shattiel again for comprehension this time? Thank you.

Oh, and Shattiel actually posting something meaningful changed my mind. I said so later on.

[AP]

Serious question: Aside from Creature, who else is a regular MU user?

[AP]

I played 2 games a year ago does that count

Maybe, but I'm asking for the more regular players there.

[AP]

Man there's really not much going on in this game, huh.

Which is EXACTLY why I was asking about MU users. This feels like a game on MU with like 3-4K posts (sometimes double as much if it's a really large game) but very little substance.

You get a TR for finally saying it aloud.

[AP]

Did I mention Profii is town? He continues to be town to me.

Saudade entrance is meh at first glance, but giving it a second thought that's probably town. It is almost inviting investigative roles to pay him a visit. I'm tentatively crossing that slot out of my large lynch pool.

DVa doesn't sound like a good lynch on D1 either.

Shattiel is talking, but what exactly are they saying?? Will give them some slack.

I would rather hear more from everyone else.

[AP]

you like sitting on fences dont you

First ISO me then you can talk. Those who have been following my posts understand what I've just said.

[AP]

None of this is outside of Saudades scumrange. I'd consider every Saudade post to be NAI.

Guys. If I considered everything NAI and with no scum obv!scumming I'd have everybody packed up in my null pile and sit on it!!!! I gotta do something.. try new angles.. improvise if you will. besides, I didn't put Saudade as an explicit TR. I just don't want to lynch him today. Hopefully someone is going to sort him out (an investigative is most suitable, but I wouldn't mind a scum NK on him if he's a town vanilla, which is what I got from his softing).

All I'm trying to do is wear down my lynch pool on D1 to something manageable.. say 3 or 4 players at max, and then I can go back and decide which of them is more likely to flip scum. It's a lighter version of what DVa proposed, btw. She's going for "explicit TRs" though, and I'm going for "could be Town" to remove from my D1 lynch pool.

[AP]

Oh, so when I said Shattiel wasn't posting it was me trying to shade the slot, but when they start to post and could possibly be read by someone (DVa says they're Town) a wagon start building on the slot? That's ... bizarre! (Yes, I'm shamelessly questioning the wagon on Shattiel at this particular time).

[AP]

Max and I are actually masons

Did Max confirm? It would be easy for a Cop to verify TWO slots if that was the case. I don't think faking Masons is a large is at all a good idea, so I'm tentatively removing Max from my D1 lynch pool.

[AP]

AP

Have you whittled down that lynch pool at all?

I'm working on it.

[AP]

The mason claim is actually a joke.
[Insert meme here]

That lasted for what? 4 hours?? You're back in my lynch pool.

Hint: Max is not though. If you flip scum you were most likely faking a Mason with TOWN. (Oh, keep your mouth shut, FL).

[AP]

Man, who fakes or jokes about being a mason...

I know. Right?

[AP]

More prod dodging to follow in 24 hours

I'm starting to feel quite uncomfortable with this.

[AP]

Ok with Creature's list I'm within: {FA_Q2, Maxous, Saudade, Sephiroth, Flubbernugget}

Who we voting from our remaining 5? Which of those 5 names are worth striking?

Sephiroth is TOWN

[AP]

I AM A STRONG INDEPENDENT MAN
AND NO WOMAN
WILL EVER TELL ME
WHAT TO DO

I hear you, brother. HAIL MASCULISM!

[AP]

you only need one

at a time

my dear

Fixed that for you. yeah, that might be the case for most, but I say the more the merrier.

[AP]

Anyone bothered that AP is suggesting a direction for any potential investigations here

Did I say "tonight" though?

[AP]

Anyone bothered that AP is suggesting a direction for any potential investigations here

Did I say "tonight" though?

Does it even matter if you said tonight or not?

Of course it does. If a Mason flips BEFORE they are checked then obviously there is no need to check the other. Also not specifying when to do the check doesn't take away the option for the investigative ti check wherever they like at any given night, including N1.

Me saying the duo could be verified with one check is more of a justification to leave them alone than it is "directing an investigative" to do a check on them.

[AP]

For anyone who is an MUer (someone seemed to be asking), up to hydra?

If you don't find someone in proper time then I will, provided you set the hydra account and just pass give me the password in a PM HERE ON MS (I'm not guaranteed to check on MU every day, but I am guaranteed to be on A50 each and every day)

[AP]

Oh, and if you still don't know who I am on MU.. ask me in a PM to A50

[AP]

But if you believed the mason claim why would there be a cop?

Ask Flavor Leaf.

[AP]

Something still isn’t right - a cop wouldn’t verify both slots anyway - a _rolecop_ would but you said cop

Mate, a Role Cop is

still a Cop

. A Parity Cop is

still a Cop

. I used Cop as "an investigative" not specifically the "Normal Sane Alignment Cop Role", but In now understand what you're saying, and I concede it was bad phrasing on my part.

[AP]

Like, IRL we say call a Homicide Detective "Cop", and yet the Traffic Officer we still call them "Cop". It doesn't matter if they're a Lieutenant, a Sergeant, a Captain or even Commissioner. If they are "Police" they are "Cops" or "Coppers".

[AP]

I'm not feeling this game, like AT ALL. For one thing, everybody's throwing up reads with not much of an explanation. For another, I can hardly play role, and it makes me feel sad I joined with AP.

I'm seriously considering switching to A50 and playing the game from the A50 perspective.

[AP]

how is A50 different from AP fypov? does one sort in a very different manner than the other?

A50 is more serious and would actually push for things to happen. I am also much more adventurous and would take more risks as A50. So, yes.. I would say the play AND the sorting manner differ between the two. (After all, I'm a Gemini, and thus entitled to have multiple personalities)

[AP]

@FL: I get that. I got it the first time too. Problem is [redacted][redacted][reacted] so I hope you'll excuse me if I don't fully trust your read. Not that I have a "strong" read on Maxous anyway, but he's not in my lynch pool for D1, so it would take me more than just your word of honour to sheep you there.

[AP]

Out of the two I would lynch Maxous over Seph, my friend. come on, man. Throw me a bone here. Pick one of:

xx2008/Carcalilly/Garmr/Creature/FA_Q2/Completly Trustworthy/Flubbernugget/Shattiel

[AP]

But all those are town besides null Flubber, but he’s not a day 1 lynch.

All of them? Are you calling my reads total rubbish?

[AP]

For one thing, everybody's throwing up reads with not much of an explanation.

Anywhere I can help?

Two things:

1- Pick one from my lynch pool to case. I don't care if you scum case them or town case them. Just case them. Either way I'll vote them or remove them from the lynch. Make it good.

2- Pass me over the credentials for that hydra if you still want to hydra with me on MU. I suggested a name that i think should fit.

[AP]

Ok with Creature's list I'm within: {FA_Q2, Maxous, Saudade, Sephiroth, Flubbernugget}

Who we voting from our remaining 5? Which of those 5 names are worth striking?

Sephiroth is TOWN

Why?

Because I said sp, and I AM THE LAW! (Erm.. wrong quote.. wrong account)

I'm not feeling this game, like AT ALL. For one thing, everybody's throwing up reads with not much of an explanation. For another, I can hardly play role, and it makes me feel sad I joined with AP.

I'm seriously considering switching to A50 and playing the game from the A50 perspective.

Ugh please don't. A50 is a bitch to sort compared to AP

That's a new one. I don't obv!town on THIS account, like EVER. On A50 I might. I just take a whole lot different approach and much more chances with A50.

[AP]

I’m actively trying to channel my inner Not Mafia this day phase.

Sorry, but N_M never posts like that. PLUS (and this is important) you missed your chance to greet everyone with the infamous " 'sup c**ts ".

[AP]

HIIII
CARCHING UP NOW

WOWWEE! Longtime no see, mate.

[AP]

My vote isn't doing much on Carca

UNVOTE:

I am firmly against the Seph wagon. I can vote either Flubber or Shattiel, but I dislike Carca on the former and Flubber himself on the latter.

I will wait to see how both wagons build to decide between the two. I won't be voting Seph under any circumstances though.

[AP]

If anything, that should be a sign that you’d like it, or second guess your reads.

If I'm going to second guess it won't be based on the wagon composition when he is VLA

[AP]

AP, which *specific* villain do you think Flubbernugget is? Is he a minime? A shark with a laser? Fat Bastard? Give us the deets

Erm.. Number Two.. perhaps? Or he maybe Number Three! GOD, NO! Not a MOLE! He definitely could be the man with eye patch though.

[AP]

But shouldn't we be asking "Mister Evil" here. I call him Mr cuz I happen to know he FAILED in that Evil Medical School.

[AP]

But shouldn't we be asking "Mister Evil" here. I call him Mr cuz I happen to know he FAILED in that Evil Medical School.

Powers are you familiar with volcano's?

No. Not really.

Spoiler:

[AP]

My vote isn't doing much on Carca

UNVOTE:

I am firmly against the Seph wagon. I can vote either Flubber or Shattiel, but I dislike Carca on the former and Flubber himself on the latter.

I will wait to see how both wagons build to decide between the two. I won't be voting Seph under any circumstances though.

why are you fine voting me btw just because I'm a wagon?

because I'm not hard TRing you and have no prior experience with you to give me hop I can do better at reading you later on.

[AP]

that sounds more like a policy lynch lets talk about your scumreads.

Why does everybody bring up policy lynching so often? I have NO CONFIDENT SCUM READS. I thus opt to use my gut and I know my gut isn't a good tool (some players have good gut reads, but I'm not one of those), but I have no better alternative.

[AP]

AP why are you townreading seph so hard??

How many times do I have to respond to the same question, mate?

Spoiler:

I ... HAVE ... JUST ... FINISHED ... A GAME ... WITH ... HIM

I also got the impression he's good at scum, and his play isn't at all "good" if he is indeed scum.

It fo;;ows that I want to give him his space and with people ganging up on him I think it's more likely scum are afraid of him than it is that he's so obv scum to 7 slots when he should be NAI at best.

[AP]

OK, having seen the Nos vs Seph debacle I find myself obliged to apologize for the one I had with Seph in the previous game. It does look good from inside your shell, but ssing it from the outside I can see how that confuses everyone as hell.

Preliminary read is that this is a TvT, but I'm slightly more confident in the Seph read at this time. Nos and I will have to sort each other sometime soon if they're town.

@Performer: First mention of Seph in my ISO.

But I concede I got confused and I only explained it once

in this game

(I hope that's a clear enough hint, because that's as much as I can say).

[AP]

VOTE: Flubbernugget
I remember getting scumpings from this, and I don’t wanna vanity vote rn

Permission to sheep (and I will already assume permission granted)

VOTE: Flubber

[AP]

that sounds more like a policy lynch lets talk about your scumreads.

Why does everybody bring up policy lynching so often? I have NO CONFIDENT SCUM READS. I thus opt to use my gut and I know my gut isn't a good tool (some players have good gut reads, but I'm not one of those), but I have no better alternative.

@AP:

remind what your scum-reads are cause i can only remember a weak one on carcilly

xx2008/Carcalilly/Garmr/Creature/FA_Q2/Completly Trustworthy/Flubbernugget/Shattiel

Carca just happens to be the strongest of the already weak SRs

[AP]

AP

- He has very few scumreads I can find for someone that has written so many posts.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Like, everybody's been blaming me for having a LARGE lynchpool!

Still think you're probably Town cuz Scum would be paying attention to make sure they do have a case on me.

[AP]

@AP - how do we have zero overlaps....

I dunno. I think I'm kinds special.

[AP]

Voting someone because you're not sure you'll be able to read him later is pretty bad.. just because you can't read someone d1 doesn't mean you can't read him for the whole game.

Good point. Perhaps I should unvote, declare VLA until the end of the day and see if I can read someone better on D2. At least if the lynchee flips Town I would be exonerated.

How about NO? (Apologies to REC).

[AP]

Flavor Leaf is town

You don't say!

[AP]

Game Start.

Flavor Leaf is aligned with the town.

Day 1 begins. It will end in (expired on 2018-11-11 11:11:11) or when a lynch has been achieved.

@Gamma: Because I know you almost never take notice of the opening posts until like.. D3

[AP]

guys hop on my wagon please

You want to be wagoned???

[AP]

Awww.. a wagon on ofrhz

[AP]

119- Relatively hollow and untrue remark

140- Fencey

141- Callback; which I often see as nerve-caused

167- More mellow than I'd expect.

521- A decent amount of painting and a handful of sideremarks(seemly very careful to avoid wrongness or contradiction)

545- Repetition

1151- "SWNST"


Also, are your joke posts and serious posts always so contrastic?

FINALLY! I believe this to be the towniest post I've seen from you in my short experience with you. It's not the case or the target.. it's you're finally showing me you're actually reading and trying to be analytical.

Carca is now NOT in my lynchpool

[AP]

@Garmr: Could you please use spoilers when quoting walls? Thanks in advance, bro.

[AP]

Awww.. a wagon on ofrhz

You're enjoying this, aren't you

Kind of.. yes. I want to see how you react to pressure here.

[AP]

Did somebody say L-1?

VOTE: Flubber

And now you're officially a member of the fan club. CONGRATULATIONS.

[AP]

I expected FL or AP to bite the dust instead.
:
:
ap looks even fishier now.

How the freak would I ever get killed when half the player list are openly promoting a scum read on me?

And OF COURSE Scum would have expected FL to be protected last night.

[AP]

Maxous/Profii/Performer << One of these 3 is scum. I dunno which, but this early push on me feels unnatural.

People are speculating DVa must've been killed because she pushed the Flubber lynch. Fine. I voted him BEFORE she did.

Check the bloody VCs before you sheep Scum. 1008 shows me not voting with Seph @6 votes (L-3) and DVa voting him. Shattiel was @3 and Flubber @2.
1171 shows Seph's wagon dissolving (the wagon I refused to join) and Flubber's building up with me on Flubber.
In between Shattiel and Flubber were toed @3 (if I remember correctly) and that's when I decided to vote Flubber.

2 of the 3 voting me now joined the Flubber wagon after me, and one wasn't even on it. Performer was still on Seph when I was voting Flubber, and Profii was vanity wagoning Saudade.

But sure.. do as you all wish. See if I care. This is AP anyway, and the beauty of it is I don't even keep a record of my win/loss stats on this account. No wiki page either.

[AP]

informed flubber - maybe informed of dva being a rolestopper, hence scum targeted her ?

Are you suggesting scum had pre-game chat? Because to my knowledge day chat is not allowed in Normals unless explicitly mentioned by the mod in the rules. If this is the case (no chat) then scum don't even know what info Flubber had, which is more reason to believe the wagon is mostly pure town.

[AP]

Also AP...are you saying daychat and pregame chats are the same? It appears like that's what you're saying.

No. I'm saying scum do not have day chat, so for them to know what Flubber knew they need to have had pre-game chat.

@Mod: Did Scum have their PTs open in pre-game?

[AP]

Note to self: if scum had a rolecop, strongman, and informed, that would actually make a ton of sense considering the flipped rolestopper with an IC.

Seriously, I don't care anymore. I don't care about the game outcome, and I don't care about how I look to you (or anyone else). I just want to understand how this brain of yours work, so please help me with this one:

What does a ROLECOP have to do with a NIGHT ONE kill target? Do you think scum also had a N0 investigation?? (Hint: that'd be explicitly non-Normal). If not, then what the hell does the Role Cop have to do with anything? And why does Strongman mean they kill someone else other than the IC? And how the hell did they know whom to shoot exactly? Unless you think Informed = has access to the modding PT!!!!

So, please take me by the hand through this statement bit by bit, because now I feel overly stupid. Thanks.

[AP]

D) they thought I’d be protected.

I’m gonna go with D. Which implies a lack of a strongman

"Someone" seems to think otherwise. Let's hear their explanation, so -maybe- we would be eventually enlightened.

[AP]

@AP other than max/prof/me, what's your scum pool looking like now.

Who says you're in my scum pool? I said ONE scum in that pool, so why do you think it refers to you in precise?

[AP]

@Performer: From the wiki..

"Rolestoppers are considered Normal on mafiascum.net. A Rolestopper cannot block a Strongman from committing a kill, but blocks all other roles from targeting the same person as them."

This is a NORMAL, and there's been talk about having a standard role PM for each Normal Role. As such, it could very well be the mod decided to use as close a phrasing as it is to the role description in the wiki for the lack of an existing standard PM on the wiki page. I also could be wrong.

[AP]

I am leaning Maxous over you two. Performer's views today look too weird to come from scum, whether informed or not. They're drawing way too much attention his way for no good reason. Profii I am less certain about because he voted me then flipped on Maxous. I dunno if that was a thoughtless town move or an elaborate scum move, but I'm still leaning the former and I am not yet ready to vote him either.

Maxous' leading the wagon on me and doubling down on an already bad case with more bad arguments is yucky. Looks like scum who shot themselves in the foot and can't find a way to retract.

[AP]

AP what do you think of xx & my case on him. He's in my scum pool. Why on earth he wavered on you and flubb, is suspicious.

I have no idea where he came up with these questions nor why he kept silent about them for so long. OK, strongman was only brought up today, but IC was revealed at the start of the game, so why did he wait for a whole game day and then a game night to remember to ask now.

Furthermore, he could've asked the mod what IC meant here.

My tinfoil theory now is he waited for the night phase to ask his scum buddies and they thought it was a good idea that he would ask these questions (or rather the one about the IC in particular) in thread to appear clueless. But this also means the scum team is fairly inexperienced because any experienced player would know it looks hella weird.

[AP]

I haven't played games this large before, so this is a pretty new experience. Newbie-type games I have been playing before I joined mafiascum.

This has nothing to do with the fact you slept on the IC question for the entire cycle (D1/N1) and suddenly remembered to ask now!! It wasn't even something you could have overlooked and only tripped over while rereading. It was literally the first act of the game.

[AP]

I love it when people go "If there was motion on/from that slot they must be scum"! Motion Detector cannot even tell if I performed an action or one was performed on me (or both).

But sure, lynch me. The game is not fun and my role isn't fun either. I don't even know why it exists in the first place.

I mean, I do see the functionality from a mechanical PoV, but it tells

me

nothing, so I'm probably shooting blanks in all directions.

[AP]

Are you loyal vig? I love that as a role.

If I was I would have never acted.
I'm DISloyal RB. This means I don't even know if my action succeeded or not. I targeted Maxous. It was between him and Shattiel for me.

[AP]

Generally speaking it counts as a protective. It can be used to prove someone does have an action, but it needs for that someone to claim they were roleblocked. Otherwise the RB doesn't get notified whether there action was successful, or even if there was anything for them to RB to begin with.

[AP]

What?

[AP]

Disloyal Roleblocker is that it?

Do you want extra dressing? Would you like to have a Pepsi with that?

[AP]

So if that is true
We got
IC
Multitasking Joat
Rolestopper
Disloyal Roleblocker

Then 1 scum flip "goon"
Hell the wolves left must be fkin tanks

I'd only call the JOAT a strong role out of the 4. and multitasking is even more so, but what does the IC do other than having a confirmed townie in advance? Rolestopper is a protective but it has the downside of also stopping investigatives from getting rulest on the target, so in terms of utility it comes 3rd after Doctor and Jailkeeper.

My role could yield some investigation results, but I'd need for scum to claim they got blocked on the night I targeted them for that to work.

In all honesty; If I was scum I'd be content if these are the only PRs the Town has. I'm pretty sure I can take the Town down if I was a goon with 3 other goons!! (Not saying all scum are goons, but with one of them being informed and not knowing what they were informed of I can see a 4 goons team vs these 4 PRs + a bunch of VTs as a fairly balanced setup.)

[AP]

Again: Don't anybody think I am suggesting the scum team is all vanilla. I didn't say that. They could all be PRs for all I know, but if so we need to have at least 2 additional PRs, and when I say PRs I don't mean the "named Townie" type like visitors and such.

[AP]

so if you are claiming town-disloyal-roleblocker - why did you think maxous was a better target than anyone you'd been scum reading through day 1?

1- I didn't have any confident SRs on D1
2- It is common that the most suspected Scum won't act on N1 (for fear of being caught red handed)
3- Don't rely much on my declared reads on D1. ofrhz wasn't my top SR by the end of D1 in this game, but that's whom I checked and got a soft guilty on.

[AP]

@ofthz: Strong? What's strong about me RBing scum but not knowing if I RB'd them?

A normal RB would have been a better role from my PoV. I used my role well enough (oh, well.. we still lost because I came to the wrong conclusion) in this game to verify N_M did have a night action.

I intended to do that here, but obviously I won't be able to do that because I have been a suspect ever since the game started and a wagon was starting to build on me already.

On my own I yield no info. SOMEONE has to claim they got RB'd on the night I targeted them for me to know I blocked them and they're scum. If I target Town they won't be blocked, thus I can't tell if someone who said they had a night result were lying or are Town.

Now tell me again.. what do you think is strong or enjoyable about my role here?

[AP]

AP remind us - why did you target max??

I've just answered that 3 posts above yours.

[AP]

Generally speaking I use implicit WIFOM for my targeted actions. For example, if I was a Doctor I would have more likely protected Profii. Why Profii? Bc I hard TR him. Why not FL? Because Scum will assume he will be protected anyway. What if Scum have a strongman shot? Then my protection on FL would have been useless anyway.

If I was an explicit investigative (say a Cop) I would have checked in Maxous Shattiel, and not in people already in my lynch pool. I'd worry more about the scum I might not want to lynch (i.e. not including in my lynchpool) than the one(s) I already have in my lynchpool.

Got it?

[AP]

Consider this: if town ap thought max was scum, then his disloyal role means max HAS to hit someone of OPPOSITE alignment in order for his role to work. If max was indeed scum, then max OBVIOUSLY would target OPPOSITE ALIGNMENT aka anyone other than his team. Now, if max turned out to be a tpr too, then town ap shouldn't even risk it because what if tpr max had a protect or some other good ability to help town - then ap would've neutralized max's role. So ideally ap needs to have waited until another night to use his ability, because on n1 he could've neutralized tpr.
Am I understanding this correctly?

What the hell are you on about??

>I< am the one with the disloyal. >I< need to target scum for my RB to go through. If I target Town my RB is "RB'd", i.e. fails .. doesn't work. It has nothing to do with who my target is targeting, or if they even have a night action to begin with.

Like; if I target you tonight, nothing happens. You will still get your actions through (assuming you are Town, but that's a technicality by now since I don't see your role being a scum role and even if it was I don't see you claiming for no good reason from a scum PoV).

[AP]

I thought disloyal just meant-
AP targets someone of same alignment as him --> AP's rb fails
AP targets someone of different alignemtn --> AP's rb succeeds

That's exactly what it means. Clear and simple. It's the inverse of the Loyal modifier.

[AP]

AP I don't get how you progressed from max not being in your lynchpool & being town, to rbing him on n1, to saying his case on you is scummy.

PLEASE.. when I link a game I do mean for people to at least go check it.

When I intent to block X I do NOT explicitly put them in my SRs. When I want to investigate X I do NOR put them in my SRs either.

When I want to

protect

someone it would most probably be someone I expect scum would kill that night and not necessarily my top TR.

If I wanted to VIG someone it will be from the "turbulent middle area" on my read list, not the ones at the bottom.

When I removed Shattiel from my lynchpool that was my intended RB target. Then I decided Maxous was more worthy of my "love touch" to I switched them. I didn't have a strong TR on him.

@FL: I get that. I got it the first time too. Problem is [redacted][redacted][reacted] so I hope you'll excuse me if I don't fully trust your read. Not that I have a "strong" read on Maxous anyway, but he's not in my lynch pool for D1, so it would take me more than just your word of honour to sheep you there.

^^ See? I wasn't sure (and I was also teasing FL about his shitty play in another game that has now ended). THIS is the point where I decided I'd go for Max rather than Shattiel.

[AP]

pray do tell how we can more easily read profii.

I'd say: when he's scum he acts like scum!him and when he's town he acts like town!him. It's that simple, really!

[AP]

I'd use the Rb and not the BG tonight if I was you. That was IF you die we know it wasn't a shot on the IC. But that's as far as I thought it out.

We don't need to explicitly out our RB targets though. That would be too much info given to the Scum team, and assuming there are 3 of them left and EVEN if we both are blocking 2 of them we're just telling them the 3rd is the one to do the kill tonight.

Maybe we should have like .. separate pools? Like use your best judgment and block someone from the top half of the list and I will target someone from the bottom half of the list? I think that leaves it pretty much open for anyone to be blocked and then scum will have to try to outguess us both.

[AP]

So I was thinking if we buy APs claim, how viable is it to also track APs rb target? If you're both town AND you survive the night, that has the possibility of confirming scum or forcing a nonaction.

Confirming TOWN you mean? Because Scum will be RB'd. It is the TOWN with an action that will still be able to perform their action, so a Tracker seeing them act = they are confirmed Town.

[AP]

Well, I proposed a working plan, and I'm waiting to see if he can go with that. I am also open to suggestions from others.

[AP]

To clarify: AP is claiming to have roleblocked literally the one slot he knows for a fact didn't go anywhere - due to Performer's track result.
Quite a coincidence.

Yes, and it's quite a coincidence you came into D2 tunneling me in particular. It's also quite a coincidence I provided a quote from my D1 posts where I decided I would target you in specific and crumbed it while I was addressing the IC. It's quite a coincidence you're not only ignoring the facts, the leads and what not, but you're practically ignoring anything going on in the game apart from popping up with "AP is suspicious", "AP looks bad", "AP\s farts smell bad" kind of declarations.

FTR, your attitude makes me still uncomfortable with your slot. It could very well be that I blocked your action and that's why Perfromer didn't see anything because the RB blocks the action from the origin. (Not 100% sure, but I think that a Tracker will see nothing if their target was "blocked")

If I want to entertain the 2nd scum team (or a Serial Killer) theory, there's nothing that says you were not the source of the 2nd kill, only yours didn't go through.

In fact, if I chose to go down that path I have a vivid enough imagination to entertain the idea you thought you hit a BP target in ME (since you didn't know you were blocked until I outed it).

Now, tell me why I should be 100% certain none of the above is the case? Like, instead of shading me on every other page and trying to test my patience (because you played me before and you probably know I don't like sub-par arguments), why don't you -say- confirm or deny you submitted an action last night? Why don't you try to actually scum hunt for real? If you're that convinced I'm scum, provide a case that is at least worth responding to. Try to find my proposed partners.

It sounded hilariously funny you used my vote on Flubber against me, when (a) I joined his wagon early enough, and (b) You didn't even vote him.

Let me be very clear and honest here: many slots in this game are (or have been) suspecting me one way or another at one point or another. I am well used to being pushed by Town and scum alike. Town don't trust me because of my reputation as scum, and scum fear me (for some odd reason I might add).

Now the way I differentiate between a Town push and a scum push on me is how they approach me, how the read develops and how they reevaluate them periodically. So, unless you really are a killer who tried to shoot me in particular, and when the day started and you saw I didn't die thought I was BP, then I advise you to try and reread everything.

P.S. Not necessarily a 2nd scum team. I've just realized it made more sense if you were of the original (only) scum team and you thought you hit the SK, while DVa was actually the SK's kill.

I am not yet ready to take that leap though, and would still assume we're up against a single scum team with no SK until I do see evidence there's more than one source of kills.

[AP]

But why not bg FL too? Him living into d3 is more important than you or me.

Sometimes the choice of the NK helps you read the scum team. Their intentions.. their powers.. etc. If you BG FL and you die we won't know if they wanted you dead or they wanted to shoot FL and you got caught in the cross fire, so to speak.

Let's note we may still have other TPRs who haven't claimed. Keeping the BG alive means they do have means to bypass the protection, or they do not anticipate there to be any more TPRs. Going for the BG over the IC means they are of weak powers mostly but are probably globally TR'd 9or at least not in the immediate danger of getting lynched).

I should not be explaining all this in public, but if I didn't answer you and many others would have probably been skeptical and didn't take my view into account anyway.

I play the game differently. I play it more like a chess game. I set traps, I try to foresee the next move of my opponent, and the more I have an idea of what scum have in store the better I may be able to stop them.

[AP]

And.. DAMN! I've TOTALLY become A50 in this game. I wanted to TROLL.

[AP]

I kinda was hoping he'd slip, yes. In fact, I wanted to keep it hidden for a bit longer if I didn't see people voting me casually.

To be precise, I made my 1st comment when I saw both CT & Garmr voting me, but then I left. I came back to be stunned by Nos having joined my wagon, and I felt if I stayed quiet any longer that you might too, and then it wouldn't have taken much for the wagon to reach it's climax. I either had to speak up or keep quiet, because if I even tried to just ignore the wagon and carry on with the plan that would have still been seen as suspicious, and you and I both know people (Maxous) would have said I was taking my time to think of a good claim. *Sigh*

Actually, I will admit myself this is not out of my scum range either, to be completely honest. What

is

though is that hidden crumb of my target from D1 when I was talking to FL. That is totally out of my scum range, because I couldn't have possibly anticipated I would be precisely "motion detected", and that Maxous would also be specifically "tracked". I mean, even assuming Flubber somehow did convey his "information", what exactly do you 9or anyone else) think he would have been informed of? Would he be told of the existence of a multitasking JOAT??? Would he also be told who that was??? Let's be crazy and say that he knew both these things.. would he be told whom Performer will target and with which ability???? If not, then why the hell did I tell FL I needed more than just his opinion regarding Maxous?

[AP]

@Nos: What's with the sudden flip on me? For real? Why did you take my sarcastic comment literally? I was saying I'm not enjoying my role, and I was frustrated my wagon was growing before I even got what I wanted from Maxous. But then Performer claimed and Maxous would not have said anything, because it was outed he didn't go anywhere anyway, so I also claimed.

[AP]

I want to know exactly what everybody thinks about Maxous and him not talking about anything or anyone else but me?

FTR, the one thing keeping me from voting him and keeping my vote on him for the end of the day is the result performer got on him. While I can't tell if he didn't act or acted and got blocked, I now know he didn't commit that kill, and I would rather vote someone who likely did.

[AP]

I think max is unlikely scum due to the track of seeing nothing, and that you targeted him. If you're town and he's scum, nothing could have happened since your rb would've been successful.

That's what I'm saying. I don't know if I blocked him or if he didn't submit an action to begin with. Either way he didn't shoot DVa.

[AP]

I also want to know, what is seph's scum meta? AP/RCE/anyone?

Don't ask me. I only have one finished game with Seph and he was Town (we both were)

[AP]

@FL: Who's you Mason buddy in this game?

[AP]

VOTE: Seph



If I did this on D1 only you would have got the joke/meme. Now the whole wide world knows about it, so no need for me to explain it.

[AP]

And considering you weren't on Flubber's wagon either I'd say you're doing pretty good this game.

[AP]

OK, Nero probably town for that erratic behaviour. I've seen him do that more often than not. Of course, this also means REC is Town bc when Nero is in that mood he almost always tunnels Town.

No, he's not. Get out of here you clown *AP kicks A50 in the butt*

[AP]

Why are you miquoting me here?
That post was by ap.

u misquoted yourself

that post is by profii

Which post is by Profii

The one Nero's attributing to Performer. To be fair though, Performer didn't use the quote, but rather typed Profii's talk in italic text and responded to it, so I can see how Nero thought it was Perf.

[AP]

AP, why are you voting for Seph?

Because that's who FL would have claimed Masons with if he wasn't IC. In other words, it's a reference to a fake claim FL did in our previous game, and his "partner" was Scum!Creature. It is also telling FL if he's not taking the game serious his reads might be flawed to the point I would literally go against them.

But I have also been considering switching my vote, except Seph prodged and hasn't shown up yet, which is "flying under the radar" in my book. I sometimes do that as scum.. have a strong opener, get widely TR'd and then fade in the shadows banking on my D1 effort. I'm not saying that is necessarily what Seph is doing, but I certainly am second guessing my strong TR on his slot from D1.

[AP]

Did Seph show up yet?

prodge until tomorrow.

I guess it's not yet tomorrow then.

P-edit:

[AP]

I have no meta on Seph. Does he often replace out? I haven't seen him do that as of yet.

[AP]

What the hell is this game? Is everybody disloyal? This means scum have a GF 99% of the time. How else do they counter 3 disloyal PRs?

[AP]

I propose I should target RCE. RCE targets Garmr/Saudade. Gamma is also on RCE. Performer does what he wants.

The reason I want Garmer/Saudade checked is their votes on profii suck. I'm not buying Saudade playing the sheep all the time, and Garmr basically sneaked into the wagon out of nowhere.

But maybe I should think more about it to make use of Performer's abilities?

P.S. Many of you know why I have been a bit quiet today, but for those who don't, I've been busy preparing for the launch of my new game, setting up PTs (including 3 hydra slots), sending out Role PMs, verifying links in Role PMs for the umpteenth time, etc.

[AP]

What the hell is this game? Is everybody disloyal? This means scum have a GF 99% of the time. How else do they counter 3 disloyal PRs?

.............this raises a big alarm bell.

Godfather is ABSOLUTELY not in normal guidelines.

You are correct. I'm way out of my focus. Give me a couple more hours to get my shit together. Sorry.

[AP]

AP - whats your thoughts on CT? see 2112`

I see what you're saying. I'm just not focused enough to give any solid opinions. I would appreciate it if we all didn't power-lynch anyone for the next few hours. That's all I ask, really.

My game is one confirmation away from kicking off, and I am working on a day start post, so bear with me. It won't take long I promise.

[AP]

AP if you really end up being town this game, I don't know what to say lol.

You -at least- know that I am for real about being out of synch, so there's that. Give me a break.

[AP]

This sounds reasonable on profii townflip
What about a scumflip though?

I didn't think that through, because I'm TRing profii. Good question though.

[AP]

I'll still target between Shattiel/CT/ofhrz

My target is between you and Perfomer if I want to confirm either of you, but what if I want to try and block a kill?? I'm willing to listen to advice on this.

[AP]

How could a disloyal roleblocker confirm someone? Nobody's going to give away they are roleblocked if they think AP targeted them, so any member of the scumteam fakeclaiming will simply say they made a certain night action even if they didn't. Its better to target a person who has a higher chance of being scum.

I was actually toying with the idea we might have another PR or two, one of which being a Tracker who tracks my target to verify they did visit someone, but I get that we don't know if we have that.

OK, I'll decide my target based on profii's flip.

[AP]

Maybe that's correct, but I still don't think there are two JOATS. It's like having two queens on a chessboard.

You know you could theoretically have up to EIGHTEEN queens on a chessboard (9 for each side)? Granted, that never happened and probably never will, but 2 queens on the same side is kinda not unheard if.

[AP]

Well, I can only think of one game I've been in with multiple JOATs, but that was a 42 player role madness.

As far as this game goes I think putting 2 JOATs of the same abilities would've been overly strange. Like, 2 Cop checks? Granted they'd be 1-shot each but then multitasking means they both could use the same abilities on N1.. all of them.

So, I probably can see 2 JOATs of different abilities over 2 JOATs of the same abilities.

[AP]

My result: Garmr didn't do it

[AP]

Cuz you were in my original lynch pool and nothing really cleared you thus far. Why

wouldn't

I target you?

[AP]

It may have been obvious to you, but it certainly wasn't obvious to me. Glad we cleared that one out. Can we move on? Like, who do you think

is

scum? Do you have any idea why they shot Performer over me, RCE or even Gamma?

[AP]

@Nero: You probably could, but I would rather wait for RCE's result if he has one to offer.

[AP]

@RCE: I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. To my understanding, Performer's abilities were 1-shot each. He could've used them all or he could've used some on the same night, but the one he uses once is no more. At least that's what I got from reading his Role PM.

So, I take it you don't want to declare your result? That's probably fine if you think it better this way.

Do you think Performer was shot direct or do you think he died protecting someone else? That bit slipped my mind until now.

[AP]

@Gamma: Please stop skimming! I am DISloyal. Dee Eye Ess. The opposite of loyal. I can only RB SCUM. If Garmr is Scum he was RB'd last night, so he sure as hell didn't shoot anyone.

[AP]

Ok then...? How did I get Loyal in that case...?

??

[AP]

I'm not liking the Nos wagon.

I was waiting for people to give some updated reads and cases, but it looks like we're not gonna have that, so I guess I'm gonna have to do some work.

@Shattiel: Please remind me again why you consider yourself a "confirmed" townie

@xx: I see your case, but I'm just not getting stroing scum vibes from Saudade. I'd compromise on him, but only if I can't find a better lynch and we're running out of time.

@Nero: I said I might be interested in xx, but I lied. (No, really.. he may not be a top tier read but he's slightly above null for me now.)

@Everyone else: Don't be lazy. Get off Nos and vote for someone scummy. That lol!hammer doesn't come from Scum!Nos. It comes from Scum!me/FL/Nero and OF COURSE Scum!N_M, but not Scum!Nos. (Yes, I picked the two players in this game I know would have totally done it without twitching)

[AP]

My result: Garmr didn't do it

Why did you block Garmr when performer named Garmr as one of his potential targets in 2140?

AP didn't you guys agree to have separate pools of possible candidates for your night action targets?

Check 2187, 2189 & 2190 and you'd probably guess he most likely decided to target xx of the 3 and was crumbing it.

[AP]

But for the record how does the interaction of roleblocker blocking another roleblocker work?

If they're both targeting each other they both fail. If one is targeting the other and the other is targeting a 3rd person they get blocked.

How many alt slips do I have left before a modkill??

[AP]

Who do you think we should be voting for AP?

That white monkey that keeps popping up uninvited. I know he's not scum, but he's too damn annoying. Please lock him up properly so I can concentrate my thought on the game proceedings without external distractions. Thank you.

Hmm.. in regards to whom

from the players list of this game

I would rather lynch, I think I'm coming around to seeing Saudade as scum here. I only played him once before and he was wrong on every aspect, but he didn't strike me as a sheeper. He pushed his own reads in that game.

Of course I also replaced in into a game where he had replaced out already (I replaced someone else) and he had a scummy ISO (he also was Town in that game) but I don't recall if he was pushing his reads against the crowd. I know his replacement did. Maybe profii can help me out? Oh, wait.. FL was also there from the beginning, so he knows Saudade better (I'm talking about the game where FL fake claimed Masons with Scum!Creature).

So, basically that's where I'm looking and hope to get a hint from FL/profii in that respect.

[AP]

@FL: Would be so kind as to point out the similarity of hos Town game with this one? Thank you. (P.S. The game is short enough.)

[AP]

If no one's gonna play the I guess I will roll the dice.

VOTE: Saudade

ROTFLMGO. I'm never playing with 2 accounts simultaneously ever again.

VOTE: Saudade

[AP]

@Nero:

I wasn't voting. I was trying to decide between Saudade and xx, and I realized I had nothing against voting Saudade myself. It was all because FL thought he was Town. I also realized if I used my own -undeniable- talent that Saudade doesn't look anything close to himself in the one game I played him where he was Town.

[AP]

oh and, why not just replace in on your main? What's even the point of a non-secret alt?

Everyone expects me to try hard with A50. Everything I say must have a hidden convoluted meaning when I'm A50.

[AP]

vote me without an open thought process harder boys

??

[AP]

Let me be candid with you all: I no longer understand why half of you are voting the other half.

[AP]

Man, is nobody else getting Shattiel scum vibes? Shattiel is super scummy to me.

I do, and did earlier, but nobody wanted to listen. Now I'm not so sure because there's hardly new AI content posted by anyone anymore.

[AP]

Good call, Gamma boy. I'm glad I trusted you this game

@RCE: What action did you take last night, if any?

[AP]

@Mod: xx has 2 invisible votes on him already.

Fixed.

[AP]

I used my protection last night, was I your target?

Indeed you were, and I was hoping you would use an investigative role (or a Vig shot) to confirm you once and for all.

Still, I can guarantee you didn't shoot Gamma, which is good enough for me.

[AP]

Dude ofhrz flipping scum is gonna make me so sad.

You can say that again. I kinda don't want her to be scum regardless.

[AP]

Frankly, I'm just tired of this Saudade gimmick.

VOTE: Saudade

If this flips red I'm town confirming both ofrhz and Shattiel.

@FL: Come on, man. The last time we played together we lynched SCUM on D1 because we worked together. I mean, we did F up (you with that fake Mason claim with Scum and I for asserting N_M's confirmed role = confirmed alignment), but still.. we work together fine when it's down to MECHANICAL analysis. I would accept gut reads on D1, or even D2 with 1-2 flips, but we've had enough flips and confirmed roles and we have the VCA, ISOs of the flipped and SETUP SPEC for balance, so we need to work on those.

Unfortunately I cannot do it all by myself because I'm neither a member of the Normal Games review panel nor do I even care to use "all Normal" roles in my designed games. I'm not 100% sure what IS Normal anymore, so I need your perspective here.

So, we had 2 identical Town JOATs with 6 1-shot actions each. We also had a Rolestopper and a 2-shot Loyal FV, and we had a Disloyal Babysitter. (that's the mod confirmed roles via flips)

Gamma's role = nerfed Vig (not sure if "nerfed" is the correct term to use, since he could not have killed Town, but he also could not kill scum unless they shot him and he was on them). He is mainly a Doctor with a conditional kill on Scum.

Seph was a nerfed invetigative (Nerfed in 2 ways: 2 shots and could have been JK'd/RB'd by either of the JOATs).

The 2 JOATs had nerfed investigative abilities (none gives a hard guilty unless the target is caught outright lying or they Tracked the specific scumster doing the kill), and nerfed protection (RB had to target the killer to stop the kill and BG meant they die instead of their target) + JK (RB+Doc, which is probably the strongest ability they had, but it was 1 shot each).

Rolestopper never got to use their ability, and I guess the designers did foresee one or 2 PRs could have been NK'd (or even lynched) early.

Now, toss in my role: Disloyal RB, and I'd say that's a better version that the RB shots the JOATs had, because mine cannot stop a TPR from doing their job, but I'd need to actually stop a kill from the source to guilty anyone (which would have potentially resulted in 1 soft guilty + up to 4 fake guilties on -say- N1 if both JOATs decided to use BOTH the JK & RB abilities each and I acted and there was no NK)

It's mind boggling a;ready, but we also need to factor in RCE's role which is a JOAT with different abilities that the flipped two.

Now Scum: One informed Goon, and my biggest problems are we don't know what he was informed of AND we don't know if he gave that info to his buddies. I'll work under the assumption he did because it's safer that way, but we still dunno what the info he jad was to begin with.

Then we have a 1-shot Motion Detected (N1 in specific) which tells me the Town does have a load of TPRs (why 1 shot? And why N1?? Because if they acted randomly they'd have a higher chance of detection motion on someone or another, and since they know who, their own team targets they can deduce this person is either a PR or has been visited by one)

I'd expect Scum to have some sort of a Voyeur then (Not sure if it's limited or full), or have a limited shots Role Cop, Or someone with 1 or 2-shot Ninja to counter all this motion detecting/Tracking/Voyeuring the Town has.

We have yet another problem in that the NKs were all made on claimed roles (except the N1 kill, which I take to be a random lucky hit, maybe?) This probably means RC might have a higher probability, as Scum would verify a role before they kill it?? Or do you think they take their words and just shoot??

And if they don't have a RC, what sort of PRs do we expect them to have to counter this high numbers of TPRs, yet most are too weak to be considered more than "half a PR"?

[AP]

I don’t think Saudade is scum.

If he's not then he's going to cost us the game either sheeping you or after you eventually get NK'd.

And that isn't even the point. I gave you a big fat piece of meat to sink your teeth into and give me something useful to work with, and all you do is tell me you don't "think" Saudade is Scum? I specifically said I didn't want the guts/tone reads anymore. I want a mechanical solution to the game.

[AP]

Let me reiterate: I do not care about your individual reads at this point. What I want from you is a setup spec/balance check to help me figure out stuff. What should we expect (or not expect) for the remaining Scum powers. Could there be strongman/strong-willed modifiers on Scum kills? Are these (or either) even Normal? (Actually, I think Strongman is Normal for anti-Town but nor for Town. I have no idea about Strong-willed, but I guess I've just answered my own question as the point relates specifically to the "cannot be RB'd| bit which is true for both, so I guess Strongman is theoretically possible).

Are you following my logic yet? Do you get what I want to verify? Because if Scum have Strongman then neither Garmr nor RCE are "mechanically" cleared even, and that's regardless of my own "gut" read on either.

[AP]

^Obviously that was @FL

[AP]

I think ap's attitude towards this game as of right now makes him look towny. I'd say at least one of the people nero cain said was scum is actually scum, since I think he could be bussing a little to make himself seem innocent. I think rc is the scummiest one so far, because his tone is scummy and he is the third JOAT claim.
VOTE: rc

@FL: See? This is waht I'm getting at.

By tone/gut I would never even dream of lynching RCE. However, that's not the way I play late into the game. I go pure mechanical, and try to see how things work from a balancing perspective, consider my options and then go with the most likely to be the case at hand.

2 JOATs flipped. RCE might not be mechanically cleared. He even didn't do anything confirmable last night to begin with. I want to know how likely it is that RCE managed to fool me with his play and tone.

[AP]

AP what were your targets in order?

Maxous, Garmr, You.

[AP]

Is AP/Garmr/Saudade a good poe?

Yes, it's PERFECT. Help me bus my p please. Thank you.

[AP]

AP why didn’t you crumb your role? Can you point out instances where you were a TPR and didn’t crumb this?

I only crumb as A50.

[AP]

Maybe crumb my target to let the town deduce a result after I flip, but that also depends on the role. As for why I don't crumb as Ap. it's because it's AP. Austin Powers doesn't reveal his plans beforehand. Austin Powers doesn't often have a plan to begin with. He just follows his basic instincts.

[AP]

Have others actually done anything to prove they're town @garmr
Except FL ofc

My gut says sausade is town

Same. Are you thinking AP is likely town, or possible scum?

This isn't really an "or" situation. For everyone not me I should be either Town or Scum (unlike -say- FL who is mod confirmed a Townie). However, the odds for me being Town are far greater than the odds for me being Scum, thus let's say someone reads me as "likely Town" with 80% confidence, then they have me at 20% possible Scum.

Thank you very much. No need to clap. I know I'm a genius, but I'm also moderate.

[AP]

I dunno what to say anymore. I already stated my case on Saudade. this is NOT his play in the game he was Town with me (and I believe I gave the link too). That and sheeping the IC looks like a way to deny responsibility for any mislynches or even having to explain why they voted/didn't vote anyone. Finally, EVEN if Saudade is Town (something I don't personally think is likely) he's just drowning us. he's not providing us with anything. No analysis or even poor attempts to analyze anything. IF he is Town he shouldn't make it to LyLo because his reads are random at best.

[AP]

Am I the only one who believes rcenigma is faking JOAT and is scum?

It's possible but improbable IMHO

[AP]

Am I the only one who believes rcenigma is faking JOAT and is scum?

Ap could be doing this as well, though.

I'm not a JOAT though

[AP]

Have others actually done anything to prove they're town @garmr
Except FL ofc

My gut says sausade is town

Same. Are you thinking AP is likely town, or possible scum?

A DISloyal RB sounds a bit farfetched to be honest especially with a rolebloicker flip I would expect Ap to mirror the roleblocker that already flipped with the current duoality flips. So they are on my lynch list.

What flipped RB?

[AP]

No, She was a Role

Stopper

. Roleblocker targeting you stops YOUR action. Rolestopper on you stops action ON YOU.

[AP]

Rolestopper

A Rolestopper is a role that can target a player to stop all other Night actions from affecting them in any way. This is something like the inverse of a Roleblocker. A Rolestopper effectively turns their target into an Ascetic Bulletproof for that night.

[AP]

In other words, it's a +ve utility only if it stops a kill on Town, but otherwise it's a -ve utility preventing kills on scum as well as investigation on anyone.

Like, assuming the most likely scenario (Gamma was on Nero and scum shot Gamma), if DVa was alive and was on Nero last night she would have stopped Gamma's action on him and thus Nero would have lived and Gamma would have still died.

[AP]

AP what were your targets in order?

Maxous, Garmr, You.

Why did you target RCE?

I'm starting to get a bit paranoid at you. It's not your norm to be this disengaged and come to throw some meaningless questions around then disappear again.

Where did the last session of questions lead you?

As for this one it was implicitly answered already (which means your skimming). I wanted to verify him once an for all, thinking he had a verifiable action. If he did and it went through it would have confirmed him 100% to me.

[AP]

But RCE never said what his third action was. I don't understand why you thought his action was verifiable and then would try to rb someone you were TR'ing?

If you really wanted to verify RCE's claikm, you could've done it n2 but instead decided to go for Garmr

VOTE: ofrhz

The ofrhz I know certainly knows how to read.

Let me tell you what RCE said about his last night action:

I used my protection last night, was I your target?

Then your huge multi-quote post 2495 proved you're not even reading for comprehension, but rather to try and find some contradiction to push that you failed to see the bolded:

The mason claim is actually a joke.
[Insert meme here]

That lasted for what? 4 hours?? You're back in my lynch pool.

Hint: Max is not though.

If you flip scum

you were most likely faking a Mason with TOWN. (Oh, keep your mouth shut, FL).

Did Shattiel flip yet? Did she flip before and get reinstalled into the game perhaps??

[AP]

That's two independent Srs here guys. I would lynch either of ofrhz or Saudade. My preference now is ofrhz though bc I don't think Saudade lives to endgame as a solo scum.

[AP]

FGS, ofrhz.. did you play X, Y & Z too much you copied their dumbass stupidity??

You do NOT RB the ones you suspect the most unless they were the last scum. The one you suspect the most id NOT going to perform the kill. The one that is higher on your reads is most likely the one who does.

My aim is to block the kill, and IF NOT then verify the person with the action.

[AP]

@ofrhz: Sorry for the snap, but you used to be MUCH better than this.

[AP]

I'm out of here before I say something stupid.

Just a few questions before I go: Is Max shot for Maxous or Maxwell? And is this an 'O' letter or a zero at the start of your username? And why did you use two question marks rather than a comma and one question mark at the end?

[AP]

mfw saudade has more posts than me

And that's exactly how much impact you've had on the game.

[AP]

VOTE: AP

If I die tonight, RCE is conf scum. Watch them all be scum JOATS.

Are you serious???

[AP]

@FL: You're supposed to lead us to VICTORY. WTF are you thinking?

[AP]

who wants to play guess the entire scumteam at basically pregame so if you're actually somehow right you may acclaim godtier ring bragging rights

Imma brag even if I get it wrong. I’m conftown.

VOTE: Performer

East bay brethren

I have traveled across many lands in my search for the truth behind such disastrous conspiracies against this here town.

Lord Leaf....of the Land of Flavor has come to a decision.

I dub thee...SCUM!!!!!

VOTE: Maxous

Fair ye, peasants of the Land of Flavor. We must unite, as a greater evil exists beyond that of Maxous. He is but an apprentice to a much wiser scum lord.

Fine, I’ll settle with Profii.

VOTE: Sephiroth

Did somebody say L-1?

VOTE: Flubber

VOTE: Maxous

I dub it.

To be fair, I am actually starting to lean less on Maxous.

VOTE: Profii

I truly think this is scum, though.

VOTE: Nosf

VOTE: RCEnigma

HUZZAH!

I've solved the game without reading d1 and several of the ISO's I said I'd read.

xx2008
RCEnigma
ofrhz

Is your scum team.

Both of RC's and Ofrhz's votes are reasonless opportunistic votes and it makes sense to me that they'd hop on with the dumb town leading the charge.

Ofrhz was a lurksack as town in my previous game with her and this doesn't match her lurksack town meta at all.

BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE

RC goes from town reading Ofrhz to scum reading her but "not wanting her lynched today" basically they are distancing from one another.

He's also protecting his weak scumbuddy XX.

In the newbie queue slots are marked as se/ic on the main post. Here it isn't marked as such but IC keeps being brought up in different context. Which is where I think it's confusing him.

Innocent child has been used multiple times. Even the exact phrase Flavor Leaf is innocent child.

Like no way he doesn't understand when you guys are literally saying that FL is an innocent child.

XX also hasn't done much scumhunting and when he does it seems mostly dence sitting. His two hard scum reads from D1 were dead town and Ofrhz who he's mainly drooped. I mean, in his last post he did say "I think him sheeping day1 wasn't exactly towny, which makes me wonder about his alignment." but that's still a fence sit and seems kinda odd he didn't start out pushing Ofrhz starting out today.

vote:RC

Pushes the “no way xx doesn’t understand” but voted RCE.

Solid.

VOTE: ofhrz

This is scum.

VOTE: Shattiel

I believe Jason.

VOTE: AP

If I die tonight, RCE is conf scum. Watch them all be scum JOATS.

Thank you very much.

[AP]

Maybe I just should've pocketed you and sheeped you like Saudade did, and then blame it in you when we lose.

[AP]

@FL:

[AP]

Dafuq?? There are 3 living PRs and ofrhz gets shot???

[AP]

AP who did you block by chance?

You again! I felt that with the argument no one's been hard cleared by my block yet that if you were scum you were most likely to do the kill because I checked you the night before.

So, one of Saudade/Garmr + one of Max/xx ??

@FL: Yes, I know it looks VERY bad for me right now, because if RCE is clear then why am I alive as well, and I really have nothing to say except

strongman

.

[AP]

AP if there was a strongman FL would have been the kill and then I easily become the mislynch for FL dying.

Not f he is protecting Scum!Saudade. Why would Scum shoot someone who is guaranteed to side by them in LyLo?

[AP]

I’m starting to think it’s Garmr/AP.

Yeah, me too.. boss

Spoiler: @FL

Ask yourself one question: Why are you still bloody alive?
I have 2 reasons:
1- Your reads are shit
2- I am not scum

I rest my case

P.S. Like, that game is over now and I can talk about it. You think I watched you do all that shit over there and let you live in here for giggles? Do I strike you as the suicidal type as scum?

[AP]

lets just lynch AP

I'm all for it. I need to start focusing elsewhere and the sooner the better. This game has taken too long of my time and it looks like a Town loss anyway.

[AP]

Well, someone PM me when this Town grows a brain.

[AP]

@FL: You won't let us lynch Saudade any more than you would have let us lynch Creature in that game THAT's what I'm talking about.

[AP]

Also, 19 people, likely 4 scum, right? 2 flipped, 9 players left, we’re 2-7 meaning we have have 2 more mislynches to go.

What 9 players?? can you please list the loving players for me???

[AP]

LOL .. *Living

[AP]

follow the leafer.

Good one