Large Normal 231 | Etymologies | Game Over
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
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- Posts: 8778
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What I had in the back of my mind is that if Not_Mafia flipped Scum, one of Hayker/Luca was bussing for Town cred. The votes toward the end there when I was asking Norwegian questions were somewhat sudden and didn’t seem completely natural. But I also thought it was interesting that such a hard to read slot in Not_Mafia was so easily garnering votes. I simply dislike most arguments about voting because of play style.-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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You’re also completely ignoring the views Nero is actually giving. Like they called me, quiet and Luca Scum. You could ask about that for example.In post 1782, NorwegianboyEE wrote:
The only reason you're getting run up in the first place is precisely because you're not catching up or giving much of value in terms of interaction with the game.In post 1779, Nero Cain wrote:
im not going to catchup and waste my time if I'm just gonna get eliminated and tunneled on for the rest of the game.In post 1774, Bypasser Catcher wrote:when do you expect you will be done with catching up sufficiently enough?-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8778
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- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: NY, USA
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8778
- Joined: July 26, 2020
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: NY, USA
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8778
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- Location: NY, USA
I just said - I think Luca is piling on Nero too hard. It’s a good way to convince others that the wagon is righteous. And Luca is also going to let you take a massive amount of the heat for it if Nero does flip Scum.
And you did say that AtE is NAI, but that’s just not true.-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
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- Location: NY, USA
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
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- Location: NY, USA
I’m pretty sure you couldn’t read me even if I was an IC.In post 1814, NorwegianboyEE wrote:
Can you stop being so scummy for the love of god.In post 1808, Andresvmb wrote:And Luca is also going to let you take a massive amount of the heat for it if Nero does flip Scum.
How do you even know Luca is going to act in this manner if Nero is town or Luca is scum?-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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I don’t think 2 Scum would be piling on you so hard D1. And for what it’s worth Norwegian seems to really believe what they’re saying about you.In post 1802, Nero Cain wrote:I mean, do u guys think that a scum norway could possibly see a Nero that had just gotten off v/la and then was like "NERO IZ LURKING ITS HIS SCUM META!" to throw some heat on me?-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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- Location: NY, USA
No I’m suggesting you let your emotions at any one point completely dominate how you read someone. If you had me as sure Town moments ago but SR me based on a set of arguments you don’t agree with, then all you’re looking for is people to validate you and not Town.In post 1826, NorwegianboyEE wrote:
Are you saying you’re mafia?In post 1818, Andresvmb wrote:
I’m pretty sure you couldn’t read me even if I was an IC.In post 1814, NorwegianboyEE wrote:
Can you stop being so scummy for the love of god.In post 1808, Andresvmb wrote:And Luca is also going to let you take a massive amount of the heat for it if Nero does flip Scum.
How do you even know Luca is going to act in this manner if Nero is town or Luca is scum?
Because i’ve been townreading you almost the entire time.
I’m simply stating that if you’re town then you should stop with the scummy arguments.-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Let’s see how this plays out. I’m just taking some wild guesses.In post 1825, Luca Blight wrote:
What makes you think that?In post 1808, Andresvmb wrote:I just said - I think Luca is piling on Nero too hard. It’s a good way to convince others that the wagon is righteous.
And Luca is also going to let you take a massive amount of the heat for it if Nero does flip Scum.
And you did say that AtE is NAI, but that’s just not true.
You've commented yourself on how sure I am of Nero flipping scum, so how would I let Norwegian take the heat for it? I SR Nero and I take responsibility for that.-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8778
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- Location: NY, USA
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8778
- Joined: July 26, 2020
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: NY, USA
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
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[quote="In [url=viewtopic.php?p=12502830#p12502830]post 1837[/url], Luca Blight"]What do you think the scum!motivation for me going in hard on Nero is here, Andres?
If I know he's flipping green, what would I have to gain from that? If I wanted to let Norwegian take the blame, why would I hard SR Nero when he'd already given up?[/quote]
Well the dynamics have changed somewhat since you’ve actually encountered some resistance from Nero, and to a lesser extent from me, but here’s my take on it. Nero is probably a better player to execute from a Scum perspective than say Hayker (play along and assume they’re both Town). So if you’re Scum, jumping on the accusations being thrown Nero’s way by Mom and Norwegian and whoever else seems like a decent play. You also need others to at least see that you have some valid arguments, so you threw that excuse about their reaction which is hard to scrutinize and very easy to go back on if you’re wrong. And you doubled down on it for good measure.-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
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- Location: NY, USA
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
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I mean do you think Nero is going to flip Town? You seem to be preparing for such an outcome.In post 1845, Luca Blight wrote:@AndresBut it makes no sense for me to go so hard at Nero if I planned to let Norwegian take the blame for his green flip.
Do you at least see that?-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Look all I know is that this 1v1 contains Scum. I can feel it. I am way too uncertain about Norwegian and frankly that fight just isn’t worth it right now you would see way too much emotional content. But Nero is not going down without a fight and isn’t throwing out crazy reads either or wallowing in self-pity before getting executed. So I am leaning Town there and voting the player that appeared most certain.In post 1854, Bypasser Catcher wrote:Andres, whats your read on Nero? And why?-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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My post above was in response to this:Luca Blight wrote:
What is this in response to?In post 1850, Andresvmb wrote:But Nero has been contributing. It’s mostly based on the here and now. But it isn’t worthless.
In post 1847, Luca Blight wrote:I was also very open to him being Town if he was able to give a decent catch-up, but he wasn't.-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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In post 1865, Luca Blight wrote:
Really? You must be reading a different game.In post 1860, Andresvmb wrote:
Look all I know is that this 1v1 contains Scum. I can feel it. I am way too uncertain about Norwegian and frankly that fight just isn’t worth it right now you would see way too much emotional content. But Nero is not going down without a fightIn post 1854, Bypasser Catcher wrote:Andres, whats your read on Nero? And why?and isn’t throwing out crazy reads either or wallowing in self-pity before getting executed. So I am leaning Town there and voting the player that appeared most certain.
How could you actually know this? In a way I’m not disagreeing with you that the battle lines are actually being drawn in this conversation.In post 1867, Bypasser Catcher wrote:mm I have to think about it. but the past few pages were pretty..bad for andres.-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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This doesn’t make sense. I’m arguing for the game to consolidate onto one or the other, see what shakes out.In post 1879, Bypasser Catcher wrote:
I'm wavering because it feels like an attempt to pull the pressure off.In post 1876, Luca Blight wrote:
I'm still sure of Andres being Town.In post 1866, Bypasser Catcher wrote:Luca, do you think Andres is trying to gaslight the situation into making u out to be scummy for pushing on nero, who is probably flipping scum?-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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I think the ship has sailed on this. Do you really want for all of this to have happened and the Town not to actually get useful information out of it? And you think this won’t repeat itself in some form tomorrow? Also, asking that someone else replace seems rude, but also kind of silly. So what’s the goal, for us not to have learned anything about this whole exchange?In post 1925, Rannygazoo wrote:I don’t want to flip town but I don’t want to encourage Nero’s behavior either. So how’s this plan: we elim Hayker, Nero replaces out since he’s sick of this game, and whatever happens at night happens.-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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I definitely knew you had a healthy ego hahaIn post 1929, Nero Cain wrote:eliminating one of the betters players b/c I hadn't caught up the second I was back is dumb.-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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And without the actual alignment information, what do you really know exactly?In post 1930, Rannygazoo wrote:It doesn’t tell us nothing. We’ve seen who’s willing to vote on it and who wants to pivot away from it.-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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I wasn’t arguing that your reads should change because the page count has gone up. Yeah, that’s obviously ridiculous. But you could feel differently about Ranny for example after their reaction to the Not_Mafia soft and their interaction with me and chkflip, or have a different opinion on plus after they maintained their apathy towards the game. You’ve clearly changed your view of Gamma for example - but are only implicitly admitting it. I did not want to give you the benefit of the doubt forever for a reads list that for as much as I felt made sense at the time, didn’t incorporate the additional information that’s come afterwards.In post 1936, Nero Cain wrote:and then sota lite pushing me b/c a p16 reads list that hadn't been updated was "outdated" was bad. But then the whole idea that one has to change his or her reads just b/c the herd does or the page count goes up is a ridiculous concept.-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Did you actually see Not_Mafia’s earlier claim? Just state it. That’s all I need.
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Just answer the direct question. So you did see it?In post 2123, Nero Cain wrote:crumbz r dumb
I wonder y a town tracker would think nm is scum hrmmmm...-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Like I don’t understand how you saw the allegedly bogus Claim and didn’t simply condemn it. For a D1 that would have been pretty good. Sure maybe you wanted some additional content but when you started to see that the wagon was faltering and was going against Hayker why not put it then? The trade-off is absolutely worth it.-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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An exact Claim by two players is quite uncommon. So it depends on the situation. It might not be necessary if the bad PR claim simply goes through. But if you need to make it happen, 1 Scum is far more valuable than 1 Town, even a PR in my opinion (and particularly something as hard to get right as a Tracker).In post 2147, quiet wrote:
Is it worth outing a PR to catch scum? Is there a guarantee that there is only one Tracker PR? Cause if we can use this to sort NM sooner than waiting for that weak every other night BS, I'm all for it.In post 2132, Andresvmb wrote:I mean Nero this is a mistake yeah? You should have outted and condemned Not_Mafia to an execution.-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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It doesn’t apply here obviously but yes in theory, I would have absolutely outted if the pressure began to decline on a player that put out my exact same Role.In post 2150, Andresvmb wrote:
An exact Claim by two players is quite uncommon. So it depends on the situation. It might not be necessary if the bad PR claim simply goes through. But if you need to make it happen, 1 Scum is far more valuable than 1 Town, even a PR in my opinion (and particularly something as hard to get right as a Tracker).In post 2147, quiet wrote:
Is it worth outing a PR to catch scum? Is there a guarantee that there is only one Tracker PR? Cause if we can use this to sort NM sooner than waiting for that weak every other night BS, I'm all for it.In post 2132, Andresvmb wrote:I mean Nero this is a mistake yeah? You should have outted and condemned Not_Mafia to an execution.-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
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- Location: NY, USA
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
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Why do you say this?In post 2158, quiet wrote:even a player like NM, where you expect them to get elimmed in a day or two when they can't prove either of their trolly claims?
(sorry NM if they aren't trolly claims)-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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It was a fake claim made out of frustration this conversation is obviously theoretical.In post 2160, Bypasser Catcher wrote:Or, even myself.-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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I was talking about Nero but yes this statement is accurate.In post 2166, NorwegianboyEE wrote:N_M can't feel human emotions such as frustration.-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
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Here’s my issue with your logic here. You are quite certain that Not_Mafia is Scum and making a false Role claim correct? So why are you happy about your Nero vote again? Nero is so sure Not_Mafia is Scum, they fakeclaimed Not_Mafia’s role in frustration. So clearly they’re not aligned as Scum.In post 2168, quiet wrote:What Bypasser said makes sense to me. I could understand not claiming then, operating under the assumption that NM would get elimmed pretty inevitably in a day or two if they had faked the claim (and i'm like, 85% sure that is the world we are living in), but putting pressure back on NM or someone else makes more sense that what actually went down.-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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That’s some dumb distancing with Nero at the brink. It’s already been achieved by now if that was the goal.In post 2184, Bypasser Catcher wrote:
I see it as distancing.In post 2182, Andresvmb wrote:
Here’s my issue with your logic here. You are quite certain that Not_Mafia is Scum and making a false Role claim correct? So why are you happy about your Nero vote again? Nero is so sure Not_Mafia is Scum, they fakeclaimed Not_Mafia’s role in frustration. So clearly they’re not aligned as Scum.In post 2168, quiet wrote:What Bypasser said makes sense to me. I could understand not claiming then, operating under the assumption that NM would get elimmed pretty inevitably in a day or two if they had faked the claim (and i'm like, 85% sure that is the world we are living in), but putting pressure back on NM or someone else makes more sense that what actually went down.-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
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You don’t have to go fake claim to make the point “stronger”.In post 2186, Andresvmb wrote:
That’s some dumb distancing with Nero at the brink. It’s already been achieved by now if that was the goal.In post 2184, Bypasser Catcher wrote:
I see it as distancing.In post 2182, Andresvmb wrote:
Here’s my issue with your logic here. You are quite certain that Not_Mafia is Scum and making a false Role claim correct? So why are you happy about your Nero vote again? Nero is so sure Not_Mafia is Scum, they fakeclaimed Not_Mafia’s role in frustration. So clearly they’re not aligned as Scum.In post 2168, quiet wrote:What Bypasser said makes sense to me. I could understand not claiming then, operating under the assumption that NM would get elimmed pretty inevitably in a day or two if they had faked the claim (and i'm like, 85% sure that is the world we are living in), but putting pressure back on NM or someone else makes more sense that what actually went down.-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
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I don’t think it’s going to flip Scum. I’m probably a complete idiot but yeah.
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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I’m not afraid to hammer. It’s not that. I just think this is a mistake.In post 2195, Bypasser Catcher wrote:wheres the andres who voted outside of a 1v1 in a lylo situation?-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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You really think Nero went this hard with the distancing tactic in a game as large as this? I don’t know man there’s probably some really sophisticated Scum out there and I’m just bad but that’s not the first thing that comes to mind.In post 2193, quiet wrote:
This was not my read whatsoever. I read them as either distancing, or trying to claim that NM had faked the tracker claim, that he was the real tracker all along.In post 2182, Andresvmb wrote:Here’s my issue with your logic here. You are quite certain that Not_Mafia is Scum and making a false Role claim correct? So why are you happy about your Nero vote again? Nero is so sure Not_Mafia is Scum, they fakeclaimed Not_Mafia’s role in frustration. So clearly they’re not aligned as Scum.
Or are you saying this is VT fakeclaiming a PR???
I elim that anyway.-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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I really, really hope you’re right and are Town. I sincerely do. Because then I’ll be the one under pressure and I can deal with that. But I KNOW how annoying you are to eliminate as Scum.In post 2214, Bypasser Catcher wrote:the tactic is to get ppl like gamma to be like "zomg scum would NEVER be this suicidal aha this is impossible to be scum here because it has to just be a frustrated townie!"-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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You’ve claimed or softed like 3 different things. It’s also something you do.In post 2228, Bypasser Catcher wrote:
im a claimed masonIn post 2216, Andresvmb wrote:
I really, really hope you’re right and are Town. I sincerely do. Because then I’ll be the one under pressure and I can deal with that. But I KNOW how annoying you are to eliminate as Scum.In post 2214, Bypasser Catcher wrote:the tactic is to get ppl like gamma to be like "zomg scum would NEVER be this suicidal aha this is impossible to be scum here because it has to just be a frustrated townie!"-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Gamma I get where you’re coming from and I’m clearly not seeing Nero Scum but there’s something to be said about going through with executions of players that will fakeclaim openly to avoid an execution as well as disparage multiple players in what is obvious emotional manipulation.
I mean I’ve made myself abundantly clear my vote isn’t going to change whatever is coming my way but I just thought I would at least explain what I’m doing.-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8778
- Joined: July 26, 2020
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: NY, USA
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8778
- Joined: July 26, 2020
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: NY, USA
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8778
- Joined: July 26, 2020
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: NY, USA
Those are the scummiest voters in the Nero wagon.In post 2279, Gamma Emerald wrote:
I’ll need to hear why but I’d possibly be down for a Luca voteIn post 2278, Andresvmb wrote:I am only interested in executing in {quiet, Luca Blight, Bypasser} today.
@Gamma thoughts?-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8778
- Joined: July 26, 2020
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: NY, USA
I’m not answering bad faith questions.In post 2280, Bypasser Catcher wrote:
what happened to hayker buddy?In post 2278, Andresvmb wrote:I am only interested in executing in {quiet, Luca Blight, Bypasser} today.
@Gamma thoughts?-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8778
- Joined: July 26, 2020
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: NY, USA
Also Rannygazoo’s grandstanding yesterday should be scrutinized.In post 2281, Andresvmb wrote:
Those are the scummiest voters in the Nero wagon.In post 2279, Gamma Emerald wrote:
I’ll need to hear why but I’d possibly be down for a Luca voteIn post 2278, Andresvmb wrote:I am only interested in executing in {quiet, Luca Blight, Bypasser} today.
@Gamma thoughts?-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8778
- Joined: July 26, 2020
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: NY, USA
Why are you asking an obvious question? You aligned yourself strongly with players in order to push a Town execution that Town!you would have seen.In post 2284, Bypasser Catcher wrote:
its not a bad faith question -> im trying to break down ur logic of why im in your poe.In post 2282, Andresvmb wrote:
I’m not answering bad faith questions.In post 2280, Bypasser Catcher wrote:
what happened to hayker buddy?In post 2278, Andresvmb wrote:I am only interested in executing in {quiet, Luca Blight, Bypasser} today.
@Gamma thoughts?-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8778
- Joined: July 26, 2020
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: NY, USA
Hayker is Scummy but I’m not nearly confident enough that it flips Scum.In post 2286, Gamma Emerald wrote:
Talk about why?In post 2281, Andresvmb wrote:
Those are the scummiest voters in the Nero wagon.In post 2279, Gamma Emerald wrote:
I’ll need to hear why but I’d possibly be down for a Luca voteIn post 2278, Andresvmb wrote:I am only interested in executing in {quiet, Luca Blight, Bypasser} today.
@Gamma thoughts?
Also I would like to know what your view on Hayker is
Listen based on the arguments being put forth yesterday, I am almost sure there was Scum on the Nero wagon. If I had to guess, at least 2 Scum.-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8778
- Joined: July 26, 2020
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: NY, USA
You’re going to have to adopt stronger stances than this if you hope to survive long-term.In post 2274, Bypasser Catcher wrote:i was very much expecting me to see like a kill on the hayker wagon and feel confident in voting there today.
now i dont know where to go from here.-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8778
- Joined: July 26, 2020
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: NY, USA
I could have seen this coming from like a mile away.In post 2292, Bypasser Catcher wrote:so now for you to turn it around like that onto me and push hayker out of a poe, thats quite suspicious.
Who is pushing Hayker out of any POE? Did I establish a POE? No. I said those 3 names I would look to execute today. I will not be voting elsewhere.-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8778
- Joined: July 26, 2020
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: NY, USA
@Bypasser if your reads are bad then I’m not interested in discussing with you what to do. That push yesterday was bad and Scum piled on. I am almost certain {Luca, quiet} need to get executed. You? Maybe slightly less so. You can tunnel and be obnoxious when you think you’re right and you’re not. And perhaps you would try to pocket me more. But still, you’re not going to go into any Town core of mine any time soon.-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8778
- Joined: July 26, 2020
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: NY, USA