Large Normal 231 | Etymologies | Game Over

[Andresvmb]

What I had in the back of my mind is that if Not_Mafia flipped Scum, one of Hayker/Luca was bussing for Town cred. The votes toward the end there when I was asking Norwegian questions were somewhat sudden and didn’t seem completely natural. But I also thought it was interesting that such a hard to read slot in Not_Mafia was so easily garnering votes. I simply dislike most arguments about voting because of play style.

[Andresvmb]

when do you expect you will be done with catching up sufficiently enough?

im not going to catchup and waste my time if I'm just gonna get eliminated and tunneled on for the rest of the game.

The only reason you're getting run up in the first place is precisely because you're not catching up or giving much of value in terms of interaction with the game.

You’re also completely ignoring the views Nero is actually giving. Like they called me, quiet and Luca Scum. You could ask about that for example.

[Andresvmb]

I for one actually think it’s incredibly likely that Nero/Luca contains 1 Scum. I did not want Luca in my Town Block because I have some concerns there. This dogged pursuit of Nero means this is probably not TvT.

[Andresvmb]

Ugh I’m going to take some crap for this but whatever.

VOTE: Luca

[Andresvmb]

Ugh I’m going to take some crap for this but whatever.

VOTE: Luca

What has Luca done that is scummy?

I just said - I think Luca is piling on Nero too hard. It’s a good way to convince others that the wagon is righteous. And Luca is also going to let you take a massive amount of the heat for it if Nero does flip Scum.

And you did say that AtE is NAI, but that’s just not true.

[Andresvmb]

^If Nero flips Town*

[Andresvmb]

And Luca is also going to let you take a massive amount of the heat for it if Nero does flip Scum.

Can you stop being so scummy for the love of god.
How do you even know Luca is going to act in this manner if Nero is town or Luca is scum?

I’m pretty sure you couldn’t read me even if I was an IC.

[Andresvmb]

I mean, do u guys think that a scum norway could possibly see a Nero that had just gotten off v/la and then was like "NERO IZ LURKING ITS HIS SCUM META!" to throw some heat on me?

I don’t think 2 Scum would be piling on you so hard D1. And for what it’s worth Norwegian seems to really believe what they’re saying about you.

[Andresvmb]

And Luca is also going to let you take a massive amount of the heat for it if Nero does flip Scum.

Can you stop being so scummy for the love of god.
How do you even know Luca is going to act in this manner if Nero is town or Luca is scum?

I’m pretty sure you couldn’t read me even if I was an IC.

Are you saying you’re mafia?
Because i’ve been townreading you almost the entire time.
I’m simply stating that if you’re town then you should stop with the scummy arguments.

No I’m suggesting you let your emotions at any one point completely dominate how you read someone. If you had me as sure Town moments ago but SR me based on a set of arguments you don’t agree with, then all you’re looking for is people to validate you and not Town.

[Andresvmb]

Ugh I’m going to take some crap for this but whatever.

VOTE: Luca

What has Luca done that is scummy?

I just said - I think Luca is piling on Nero too hard. It’s a good way to convince others that the wagon is righteous.

And Luca is also going to let you take a massive amount of the heat for it if Nero does flip Scum.

And you did say that AtE is NAI, but that’s just not true.

What makes you think that?

You've commented yourself on how sure I am of Nero flipping scum, so how would I let Norwegian take the heat for it? I SR Nero and I take responsibility for that.

Let’s see how this plays out. I’m just taking some wild guesses.

[Andresvmb]

This is good this is actually good discussion. Something will come out of this.

[Andresvmb]

I need to actually focus on work but I’ll be checking this every now and then.

[Andresvmb]

[quote="In [url=viewtopic.php?p=12502830#p12502830]post 1837[/url], Luca Blight"]What do you think the scum!motivation for me going in hard on Nero is here, Andres?

If I know he's flipping green, what would I have to gain from that? If I wanted to let Norwegian take the blame, why would I hard SR Nero when he'd already given up?[/quote]
Well the dynamics have changed somewhat since you’ve actually encountered some resistance from Nero, and to a lesser extent from me, but here’s my take on it. Nero is probably a better player to execute from a Scum perspective than say Hayker (play along and assume they’re both Town). So if you’re Scum, jumping on the accusations being thrown Nero’s way by Mom and Norwegian and whoever else seems like a decent play. You also need others to at least see that you have some valid arguments, so you threw that excuse about their reaction which is hard to scrutinize and very easy to go back on if you’re wrong. And you doubled down on it for good measure.

[Andresvmb]

And please lets not pretend that having a Town executed that can probably contribute to the game isn’t something worth pursuing as Scum.

[Andresvmb]

@Andres

But it makes no sense for me to go so hard at Nero if I planned to let Norwegian take the blame for his green flip.

Do you at least see that?

I mean do you think Nero is going to flip Town? You seem to be preparing for such an outcome.

[Andresvmb]

But Nero has been contributing. It’s mostly based on the here and now. But it isn’t worthless.

[Andresvmb]

Andres, whats your read on Nero? And why?

Look all I know is that this 1v1 contains Scum. I can feel it. I am way too uncertain about Norwegian and frankly that fight just isn’t worth it right now you would see way too much emotional content. But Nero is not going down without a fight and isn’t throwing out crazy reads either or wallowing in self-pity before getting executed. So I am leaning Town there and voting the player that appeared most certain.

[Andresvmb]

But Nero has been contributing. It’s mostly based on the here and now. But it isn’t worthless.

What is this in response to?

My post above was in response to this:

I was also very open to him being Town if he was able to give a decent catch-up, but he wasn't.

[Andresvmb]

Andres, whats your read on Nero? And why?

Look all I know is that this 1v1 contains Scum. I can feel it. I am way too uncertain about Norwegian and frankly that fight just isn’t worth it right now you would see way too much emotional content. But Nero is not going down without a fight

and isn’t throwing out crazy reads either or wallowing in self-pity before getting executed

. So I am leaning Town there and voting the player that appeared most certain.

Really? You must be reading a different game.

mm I have to think about it. but the past few pages were pretty..bad for andres.

How could you actually know this? In a way I’m not disagreeing with you that the battle lines are actually being drawn in this conversation.

[Andresvmb]

Oh I wasn’t saying there was no self-pity in some of those responses, but Nero has kicked into gear and he’s out there analyzing and fighting. If Nero hadn’t changed the stance at all fine.

[Andresvmb]

Luca, do you think Andres is trying to gaslight the situation into making u out to be scummy for pushing on nero, who is probably flipping scum?

I'm still sure of Andres being Town.

I'm wavering because it feels like an attempt to pull the pressure off.

This doesn’t make sense. I’m arguing for the game to consolidate onto one or the other, see what shakes out.

[Andresvmb]

I don’t want to flip town but I don’t want to encourage Nero’s behavior either. So how’s this plan: we elim Hayker, Nero replaces out since he’s sick of this game, and whatever happens at night happens.

I think the ship has sailed on this. Do you really want for all of this to have happened and the Town not to actually get useful information out of it? And you think this won’t repeat itself in some form tomorrow? Also, asking that someone else replace seems rude, but also kind of silly. So what’s the goal, for us not to have learned anything about this whole exchange?

[Andresvmb]

eliminating one of the betters players b/c I hadn't caught up the second I was back is dumb.

I definitely knew you had a healthy ego haha

[Andresvmb]

It doesn’t tell us nothing. We’ve seen who’s willing to vote on it and who wants to pivot away from it.

And without the actual alignment information, what do you really know exactly?

[Andresvmb]

and then sota lite pushing me b/c a p16 reads list that hadn't been updated was "outdated" was bad. But then the whole idea that one has to change his or her reads just b/c the herd does or the page count goes up is a ridiculous concept.

I wasn’t arguing that your reads should change because the page count has gone up. Yeah, that’s obviously ridiculous. But you could feel differently about Ranny for example after their reaction to the Not_Mafia soft and their interaction with me and chkflip, or have a different opinion on plus after they maintained their apathy towards the game. You’ve clearly changed your view of Gamma for example - but are only implicitly admitting it. I did not want to give you the benefit of the doubt forever for a reads list that for as much as I felt made sense at the time, didn’t incorporate the additional information that’s come afterwards.

[Andresvmb]

And I’m not sealing your fate. Those voting for you are. And I can’t just randomly push another slot. It has to make sense. Besides, most players here seem to want to ignore me, so I think you’re overestimating how much pull I have at all.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: Hayker

[Andresvmb]

u absolutely do not deserve a town tracker

VOTE: nero

Did you actually see Not_Mafia’s earlier claim? Just state it. That’s all I need.

[Andresvmb]

crumbz r dumb

I wonder y a town tracker would think nm is scum hrmmmm...

Just answer the direct question. So you did see it?

[Andresvmb]

I mean Nero this is a mistake yeah? You should have outted and condemned Not_Mafia to an execution.

[Andresvmb]

Like I don’t understand how you saw the allegedly bogus Claim and didn’t simply condemn it. For a D1 that would have been pretty good. Sure maybe you wanted some additional content but when you started to see that the wagon was faltering and was going against Hayker why not put it then? The trade-off is absolutely worth it.

[Andresvmb]

Sigh. Well I can’t say that I think this day is going to end any differently.

[Andresvmb]

I mean Nero this is a mistake yeah? You should have outted and condemned Not_Mafia to an execution.

Is it worth outing a PR to catch scum? Is there a guarantee that there is only one Tracker PR? Cause if we can use this to sort NM sooner than waiting for that weak every other night BS, I'm all for it.

An exact Claim by two players is quite uncommon. So it depends on the situation. It might not be necessary if the bad PR claim simply goes through. But if you need to make it happen, 1 Scum is far more valuable than 1 Town, even a PR in my opinion (and particularly something as hard to get right as a Tracker).

[Andresvmb]

I mean Nero this is a mistake yeah? You should have outted and condemned Not_Mafia to an execution.

Is it worth outing a PR to catch scum? Is there a guarantee that there is only one Tracker PR? Cause if we can use this to sort NM sooner than waiting for that weak every other night BS, I'm all for it.

An exact Claim by two players is quite uncommon. So it depends on the situation. It might not be necessary if the bad PR claim simply goes through. But if you need to make it happen, 1 Scum is far more valuable than 1 Town, even a PR in my opinion (and particularly something as hard to get right as a Tracker).

It doesn’t apply here obviously but yes in theory, I would have absolutely outted if the pressure began to decline on a player that put out my exact same Role.

[Andresvmb]

What are we at?

[Andresvmb]

even a player like NM, where you expect them to get elimmed in a day or two when they can't prove either of their trolly claims?
(sorry NM if they aren't trolly claims)

Why do you say this?

[Andresvmb]

Or, even myself.

It was a fake claim made out of frustration this conversation is obviously theoretical.

[Andresvmb]

N_M can't feel human emotions such as frustration.

I was talking about Nero but yes this statement is accurate.

[Andresvmb]

What Bypasser said makes sense to me. I could understand not claiming then, operating under the assumption that NM would get elimmed pretty inevitably in a day or two if they had faked the claim (and i'm like, 85% sure that is the world we are living in), but putting pressure back on NM or someone else makes more sense that what actually went down.

Here’s my issue with your logic here. You are quite certain that Not_Mafia is Scum and making a false Role claim correct? So why are you happy about your Nero vote again? Nero is so sure Not_Mafia is Scum, they fakeclaimed Not_Mafia’s role in frustration. So clearly they’re not aligned as Scum.

[Andresvmb]

What Bypasser said makes sense to me. I could understand not claiming then, operating under the assumption that NM would get elimmed pretty inevitably in a day or two if they had faked the claim (and i'm like, 85% sure that is the world we are living in), but putting pressure back on NM or someone else makes more sense that what actually went down.

Here’s my issue with your logic here. You are quite certain that Not_Mafia is Scum and making a false Role claim correct? So why are you happy about your Nero vote again? Nero is so sure Not_Mafia is Scum, they fakeclaimed Not_Mafia’s role in frustration. So clearly they’re not aligned as Scum.

I see it as distancing.

That’s some dumb distancing with Nero at the brink. It’s already been achieved by now if that was the goal.

[Andresvmb]

What Bypasser said makes sense to me. I could understand not claiming then, operating under the assumption that NM would get elimmed pretty inevitably in a day or two if they had faked the claim (and i'm like, 85% sure that is the world we are living in), but putting pressure back on NM or someone else makes more sense that what actually went down.

Here’s my issue with your logic here. You are quite certain that Not_Mafia is Scum and making a false Role claim correct? So why are you happy about your Nero vote again? Nero is so sure Not_Mafia is Scum, they fakeclaimed Not_Mafia’s role in frustration. So clearly they’re not aligned as Scum.

I see it as distancing.

That’s some dumb distancing with Nero at the brink. It’s already been achieved by now if that was the goal.

You don’t have to go fake claim to make the point “stronger”.

[Andresvmb]

I am chicken. I can’t vote Nero.

Somebody else will do it I’m sure.

[Andresvmb]

I am chicken. I can’t vote Nero.

Somebody else will do it I’m sure.

excuse me?

I don’t think it’s going to flip Scum. I’m probably a complete idiot but yeah.

[Andresvmb]

wheres the andres who voted outside of a 1v1 in a lylo situation?

I’m not afraid to hammer. It’s not that. I just think this is a mistake.

[Andresvmb]

Here’s my issue with your logic here. You are quite certain that Not_Mafia is Scum and making a false Role claim correct? So why are you happy about your Nero vote again? Nero is so sure Not_Mafia is Scum, they fakeclaimed Not_Mafia’s role in frustration. So clearly they’re not aligned as Scum.

This was not my read whatsoever. I read them as either distancing, or trying to claim that NM had faked the tracker claim, that he was the real tracker all along.

Or are you saying this is VT fakeclaiming a PR???

I elim that anyway.

You really think Nero went this hard with the distancing tactic in a game as large as this? I don’t know man there’s probably some really sophisticated Scum out there and I’m just bad but that’s not the first thing that comes to mind.

[Andresvmb]

the tactic is to get ppl like gamma to be like "zomg scum would NEVER be this suicidal aha this is impossible to be scum here because it has to just be a frustrated townie!"

I really, really hope you’re right and are Town. I sincerely do. Because then I’ll be the one under pressure and I can deal with that. But I KNOW how annoying you are to eliminate as Scum.

[Andresvmb]

the tactic is to get ppl like gamma to be like "zomg scum would NEVER be this suicidal aha this is impossible to be scum here because it has to just be a frustrated townie!"

I really, really hope you’re right and are Town. I sincerely do. Because then I’ll be the one under pressure and I can deal with that. But I KNOW how annoying you are to eliminate as Scum.

im a claimed mason

You’ve claimed or softed like 3 different things. It’s also something you do.

[Andresvmb]

I’ll hammer Nero if they get to E-1 and the game is stalling. I don’t know what happened to DGB or Molla for example a single thought from them might be useful.

[Andresvmb]

Gamma I get where you’re coming from and I’m clearly not seeing Nero Scum but there’s something to be said about going through with executions of players that will fakeclaim openly to avoid an execution as well as disparage multiple players in what is obvious emotional manipulation.

I mean I’ve made myself abundantly clear my vote isn’t going to change whatever is coming my way but I just thought I would at least explain what I’m doing.

[Andresvmb]

There’s no realistic path I can see to an alternative and I’m not going to pretend that Hayker is any sort of certainty.

[Andresvmb]

Alright then.

VOTE: Nero Cain

[Andresvmb]

Ah Not_Mafia beat me to it. I didn’t even have to vote.

[Andresvmb]

I am only interested in executing in {quiet, Luca Blight, Bypasser} today.

@Gamma thoughts?

[Andresvmb]

I am only interested in executing in {quiet, Luca Blight, Bypasser} today.

@Gamma thoughts?

I’ll need to hear why but I’d possibly be down for a Luca vote

Those are the scummiest voters in the Nero wagon.

[Andresvmb]

I am only interested in executing in {quiet, Luca Blight, Bypasser} today.

@Gamma thoughts?

what happened to hayker buddy?

I’m not answering bad faith questions.

[Andresvmb]

I am only interested in executing in {quiet, Luca Blight, Bypasser} today.

@Gamma thoughts?

I’ll need to hear why but I’d possibly be down for a Luca vote

Those are the scummiest voters in the Nero wagon.

Also Rannygazoo’s grandstanding yesterday should be scrutinized.

[Andresvmb]

I am only interested in executing in {quiet, Luca Blight, Bypasser} today.

@Gamma thoughts?

what happened to hayker buddy?

I’m not answering bad faith questions.

its not a bad faith question -> im trying to break down ur logic of why im in your poe.

Why are you asking an obvious question? You aligned yourself strongly with players in order to push a Town execution that Town!you would have seen.

[Andresvmb]

I am only interested in executing in {quiet, Luca Blight, Bypasser} today.

@Gamma thoughts?

I’ll need to hear why but I’d possibly be down for a Luca vote

Those are the scummiest voters in the Nero wagon.

Talk about why?
Also I would like to know what your view on Hayker is

Hayker is Scummy but I’m not nearly confident enough that it flips Scum.

Listen based on the arguments being put forth yesterday, I am almost sure there was Scum on the Nero wagon. If I had to guess, at least 2 Scum.

[Andresvmb]

i was very much expecting me to see like a kill on the hayker wagon and feel confident in voting there today.

now i dont know where to go from here.

You’re going to have to adopt stronger stances than this if you hope to survive long-term.

[Andresvmb]

so now for you to turn it around like that onto me and push hayker out of a poe, thats quite suspicious.

I could have seen this coming from like a mile away.

Who is pushing Hayker out of any POE? Did I establish a POE? No. I said those 3 names I would look to execute today. I will not be voting elsewhere.

[Andresvmb]

@Bypasser if your reads are bad then I’m not interested in discussing with you what to do. That push yesterday was bad and Scum piled on. I am almost certain {Luca, quiet} need to get executed. You? Maybe slightly less so. You can tunnel and be obnoxious when you think you’re right and you’re not. And perhaps you would try to pocket me more. But still, you’re not going to go into any Town core of mine any time soon.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: quiet

[Andresvmb]

What did he do?

Can you like read the game?

[Andresvmb]

huh I guess the nero wagon was viable after all.

I may have had very light reasons to vote Nero when I jumped on the wagon from Hayker, but I am exceptionally happy to be on this wagon right now. My vote stays. Don't buy the claim whatsoever. The only progression I saw was anger at everyone voting them -> depression self vote -> no point in bargaining -> acceptance of their fate. But also I know for a fact I don't like playing with angry players, and that might be coloring my read. I didn't have the time I wanted to read over old games, but I'm satisfied enough with what has been said.

Plus I'm with Norfolk, and a few others. This sure as hell seems to provide a lot more info than Hayker's elim.

Also the gamestate seemed to change pretty seriously since I last posted. Today was some early susses, then an almost casual hammer on NM, a slow moving, stalled out wagon on Hayker, then whatever the hell the last 20something pages have been of fighting over Nero's slot. Three very different wagons.

Does anyone have a take on why the game slowed down when Hayker was up? Is it just because it wasn't a very exciting elim?

Here’s my issue with your logic here. You are quite certain that Not_Mafia is Scum and making a false Role claim correct? So why are you happy about your Nero vote again? Nero is so sure Not_Mafia is Scum, they fakeclaimed Not_Mafia’s role in frustration. So clearly they’re not aligned as Scum.

This was not my read whatsoever. I read them as either distancing, or trying to claim that NM had faked the tracker claim, that he was the real tracker all along.

Or are you saying this is VT fakeclaiming a PR???

I elim that anyway.

Information to justify an execution? A policy argument based on a fake claim? A seemingly informed distancing argument about Nero Cain and Not_Mafia? Yeah, I don’t think I’m going to be trusting this slot any time soon.

[Andresvmb]

Like if I had to summarize it - a few arguments were made about Nero and that wagon escalated quickly. Onto what you would agree is a good player, correct? A few players seized on Norwegian’s and Momrangal’s meta logic, which was quite obviously incorrect (and Nero blasted it in those terms), and then the reasoning provided by quiet above.

There’s Scum in there. Bypasser was also cheering the wagon way too aggressively, pouncing on every little thing and making it seem like the Scummiest thing that anybody had ever done.

Obviously there’s also Scum off the wagon. I think Ranny is a good candidate for that.

[Andresvmb]

andres, do you see a world where town!hayker + scum!me exists?

I don’t like this question

why?

andres isn't an IC bud.

im retracting their logic to see how they reached the conclusion that i have to be part of their limpool today over anyone else.

Why do you say that?

because i was fucking sus of them d1 !!!!!!!!!!!
it feels just way too fucking convenient ok.

and them stating they dont wanna lim hayker is setting off huge fucking sirens in my head.

Why would I want to execute the counter wagon that some of the Scummy slots on Nero were perfectly happy to switch back and forth from? I don’t think so.

[Andresvmb]

Fuck quoting on mobile.
I’m trying to get a tiny part of a post but it only get’s the entire thing.
Anyway, my reaction to Mini’s death is that there is no way scum killed them for any other reason than as a fear kill. Which immediately makes me paranoid of Titus.
I’m sorry if you’re town Titus but this is the first thought in my mind.

We’re not doing this. Not nearly enough reason to execute Titus.

[Andresvmb]

You weren’t there for Large Normal 230 Dk
The first two miselims were on townies who acted scummy. Pretentious had an inconsistent approach when it came to survivalism and how he interacted with people, and Guillotina faked a guilty because he made a bad move as tracker. Scummy =/= scum.

I am voting quiet. There are a few folks here who seem to be pushing what, Titus who wasn’t on Nero and Hayker who didn’t vote? So nobody is even trying to seriously look at the Nero wagon? C’mon now Gamma wake up.

[Andresvmb]

Fuck quoting on mobile.
I’m trying to get a tiny part of a post but it only get’s the entire thing.
Anyway, my reaction to Mini’s death is that there is no way scum killed them for any other reason than as a fear kill. Which immediately makes me paranoid of Titus.
I’m sorry if you’re town Titus but this is the first thought in my mind.

We’re not doing this. Not nearly enough reason to execute Titus.

Since when did you become town leader? I don’t care if you don’t like the evidence. There is literally no reason for Mathblade to die unless someone familiar with their game that KNOWS they’ll get caught by them repping in argued for their death. Titus probably argued in scum PT of how important it is to kill Mathblade and thus it happened.

And who made YOU Town Leader with your crap logic about Nero?

[Andresvmb]

You weren’t there for Large Normal 230 Dk
The first two miselims were on townies who acted scummy. Pretentious had an inconsistent approach when it came to survivalism and how he interacted with people, and Guillotina faked a guilty because he made a bad move as tracker. Scummy =/= scum.

I am voting quiet. There are a few folks here who seem to be pushing what, Titus who wasn’t on Nero and Hayker who didn’t vote? So nobody is even trying to seriously look at the Nero wagon? C’mon now Gamma wake up.

What? I think your suspect pool is alright, I’m just doing my own questioning. Why slam me like this?

I’m not slamming you. But defending Bypasser here is not what I would be wasting my time doing.

[Andresvmb]

Why have a D1 that long with all that content to vote a player based on the speculation that they were afraid of another player replacing into a slot that had not posted at all? Genius.

[Andresvmb]

I’m not defending BC?

Then I don’t know what your 2328 is trying to do.

[Andresvmb]

We need to kill this idea that Scum look to preserve their Town cred at all costs. It’s just not true. Scum need to push mis-executions. It’s how they stay in the game. It’s much easier to backtrack and blame bad reads than it is to wait on the Town to form a core and figure the game out and try and outlast that.

[Andresvmb]

Why have a D1 that long with all that content to vote a player based on the speculation that they were afraid of another player replacing into a slot that had not posted at all? Genius.

Ok big brain.
Why did Mathblade die?
Big mislim potential but they were killed.

Why are you asking me something only Scum know? I have no idea why Mini / Math was the choice, outside of the obvious fact that they were a PR.

[Andresvmb]

We need to kill this idea that Scum look to preserve their Town cred at all costs. It’s just not true. Scum need to push mis-executions. It’s how they stay in the game. It’s much easier to backtrack and blame bad reads than it is to wait on the Town to form a core and figure the game out and try and outlast that.

and yet scum killed outside the supposed "core" that was being built d1.

Your point being what exactly?

[Andresvmb]

Why have a D1 that long with all that content to vote a player based on the speculation that they were afraid of another player replacing into a slot that had not posted at all? Genius.

Ok big brain.
Why did Mathblade die?
Big mislim potential but they were killed.

Why are you asking me something only Scum know? I have no idea why Mini / Math was the choice, outside of the obvious fact that they were a PR.

Because some of us have played with each other. Someone was clearly afraid of mathblade

Sigh this way of trying to execute Scum is going to be a total crapshoot. I’ve played with Math once maybe? I can’t say I even remember their style.

[Andresvmb]

We need to kill this idea that Scum look to preserve their Town cred at all costs. It’s just not true. Scum need to push mis-executions. It’s how they stay in the game. It’s much easier to backtrack and blame bad reads than it is to wait on the Town to form a core and figure the game out and try and outlast that.

and yet scum killed outside the supposed "core" that was being built d1.

Your point being what exactly?

im literally hardpushing the kill onto u ifi m scum???????????

unless we're scum together???

like cmon

I don’t know if this is true.

And do you think the Nero wagon was pure? Why aren’t you commenting on that?

[Andresvmb]

Why have a D1 that long with all that content to vote a player based on the speculation that they were afraid of another player replacing into a slot that had not posted at all? Genius.

Ok big brain.
Why did Mathblade die?
Big mislim potential but they were killed.

Why are you asking me something only Scum know? I have no idea why Mini / Math was the choice, outside of the obvious fact that they were a PR.

This could legit be a teammate to Titus if they are scum.
What is this logic, you don’t know what scum was thinking but they might have killed Mini because they are PR? Where did they PR crumb?

Now you’re shading me by association? Are you for real?

[Andresvmb]

Why on earth would a team with Hayker!scum not kill any of the slots that are likely to push them today? I think this is a situation where you need to ask yourself how we ended up here and what scum has been thinking.

Was there Scum on Nero you think?

[Andresvmb]

im more trustworthy of people who scumread nero after the stupid fakeclaim bullshit they pulled. cuz town perspective 100% sees that shit as scumfuck shit.

idgaf how u twist it u dont get to discredit anyone pushing the nero lim just for pushing nero cause there were valid reasons for it. to toss someone's towniness away just cause u didnt like the wagon they pushed is absurd.

the early votes are more likely to be scum. luca im reconsidering bc of their meta shit they pushed but otherwise idgi

Well we’re certainly not going to agree on this.

[Andresvmb]

im more trustworthy of people who scumread nero after the stupid fakeclaim bullshit they pulled. cuz town perspective 100% sees that shit as scumfuck shit.

idgaf how u twist it u dont get to discredit anyone pushing the nero lim just for pushing nero cause there were valid reasons for it. to toss someone's towniness away just cause u didnt like the wagon they pushed is absurd.

the early votes are more likely to be scum. luca im reconsidering bc of their meta shit they pushed but otherwise idgi

Well we’re certainly not going to agree on this.

This just completely ignores the reality that multiple votes came in based on bad meta logic, and before Nero had had a chance to do all the things you’re implying are game throwing.

[Andresvmb]

i was like 99% sure nero was flipping scum there and was in lolcat mode.

shame i didnt consider the angle that someone was just tossing the game against their wincon.

You can try and make the argument that the odds of getting that right were 1%, but it’s just false. Because Gamma, Ranny and I are not all Scum together. Yet multiple players came out against the wagon there.

[Andresvmb]

I’ve seen pure town wagons on town with scum all white knighting.
Assuming a wagon is filled to the brim with scum just because they flipped town is like Dkkoba says, just stupid.

You think 11 players in a large voted Town out D1 quickly, some with bad logic, and it was completely pure with the Scum only white knighting? Is this a serious argument? Because you sound ridiculous right now.

[Andresvmb]

I’m not saying it is btw. There surely was scum on the Nero wagon, but these discredits r bad.

So you think there’s Scum on the wagon, but all I’m doing is discrediting? You know you can’t have it both ways right?

[Andresvmb]

IT WASNT FUCKING BAD LOGIC

Are you defending the meta logic now? Why? It was bad. That’s the point.

[Andresvmb]

I’m not saying it is btw. There surely was scum on the Nero wagon, but these discredits r bad.

So you think there’s Scum on the wagon, but all I’m doing is discrediting? You know you can’t have it both ways right?

I’m not saying one is unquestionably true. I just find it bad how you seem to shade all voters on the wagon.

I haven’t shaded all the voters on the wagon. Like what are you talking about.

[Andresvmb]

Why have a D1 that long with all that content to vote a player based on the speculation that they were afraid of another player replacing into a slot that had not posted at all? Genius.

Ok big brain.
Why did Mathblade die?
Big mislim potential but they were killed.

Why are you asking me something only Scum know? I have no idea why Mini / Math was the choice, outside of the obvious fact that they were a PR.

This could legit be a teammate to Titus if they are scum.
What is this logic, you don’t know what scum was thinking but they might have killed Mini because they are PR? Where did they PR crumb?

Tbqh I haven’t entirely liked Andres’ posting today so far
But I’m unsure whether it’s him scum posting or just a bit of alienation

Alright I’m out.

VOTE: Norfolk Boy1

@Mod I’m VLA until Sunday

[Andresvmb]

Andre, level with me.

I know I pushed you yesterday but today you are one of my top town reads.

Did something happen overnight to put you over the edge on Luca?

Also, I'm down with Quiet, also have a PoE scum read on Vax. Hayker is also town

I think Luca is likely Scum for the same reasons I pushed there yesterday. Nero’s flip only confirms that my reasoning there was not horrendous. Whether I’m actually right at all, I don’t really know. Time will tell.

[Andresvmb]

Fuck quoting on mobile.
I’m trying to get a tiny part of a post but it only get’s the entire thing.
Anyway, my reaction to Mini’s death is that there is no way scum killed them for any other reason than as a fear kill. Which immediately makes me paranoid of Titus.
I’m sorry if you’re town Titus but this is the first thought in my mind.

We’re not doing this. Not nearly enough reason to execute Titus.

Since when did you become town leader? I don’t care if you don’t like the evidence. There is literally no reason for Mathblade to die unless someone familiar with their game that KNOWS they’ll get caught by them repping in argued for their death. Titus probably argued in scum PT of how important it is to kill Mathblade and thus it happened.

And who made YOU Town Leader with your crap logic about Nero?

Cheap discredit.

VOTE: Titus

?????

Norwegian is doing one of three things: (i) trying to sideline my as Scum, (ii) Scum trying to act clueless and confrontational, (iii) Town and completely clueless/pocketed. You take your pick.

[Andresvmb]

^Sideline me*

[Andresvmb]

^Sideline me*

Thunk he could possibly have an ego that's bigger than his actual game value?

That’s option (iii).

[Andresvmb]

Andre
Gamma
Bina

Dbg
Math/mini
Norwee
Norfolk
Ranny

Hayker

Dk
Titus
NPOM

Luca

plus
Vax
Molla


That's what overnight fermentation got me, below Hayker is null to null scum

Where do you have quiet?

[Andresvmb]

Bypasser (Koba) replaced onto the NPOM slot so you’re missing a name or two I think.

[Andresvmb]

Yeah and Not_Mafia.

[Andresvmb]

Tbh I kind of just want this day to end so I can do my night action

VOTE: Hayker

Are you sure this is the right wagon?

VOTE: Hayker

Haykers gonna Hayk Hayk Hayk.

Norway; first, aid me with the %s that a)Meta and b) the slip are the reasons for your vote.

Second, if there is belief in a 'slip', why is Mom not being wagonned?

If Norfolk was actually tracked as Scum, then yeah don’t execute Hayker.

[Andresvmb]

Wait quiet, are you actually pushing for the Tracker Claim who has a result, instead of the tracked player? Is this what you’re doing?

[Andresvmb]

I understand why people might go Norfolk first, as if NM tracker is real, is boon to town. But they prob get killed tonight anyway if they are real. So that argument may be less valuable.

You even put a disclaimer!

[Andresvmb]

Alright I don’t know why I’m getting even remotely aggravated about this game. I’ll very sporadically check this since obviously we’re executing in Norfolk/Not_Mafia and I don’t want to waste my breath trying to argue anything else. If anybody thinks I could be remotely on point ask me directly or wants to engage on a read I’ve put out ask directly.

[Andresvmb]

Questioning that is not worthwhile actually, no. It’s just Scummy. If Not_Mafia is lying, they’re trading their slot for a player that hasn’t posted that much and has been somewhat on and off? Why? You don’t think the Claim would have come against a player that’s either more widely recognized as dangerous or that is being widely TR?

That together with the fact that they were almost quickly executed yesterday and softed the Role really makes your post somewhat preposterous.

[Andresvmb]

This is actually me asking. Andre, you think it’s a stupid idea, okay, it probably is then. That’s why I asked.

Didn’t mean to aggravate. Sorry.

You’re not responsible for how I’m feeling. Don’t worry.

[Andresvmb]

Andre, you think it’s a stupid idea, okay, it probably is then.

I’m curious as to this. I don’t think I’m a bad player, but I certainly don’t know that if I think something is correct, then it is. We’re all fallible. Always feel free to argue logic with me that’s all good.

[Andresvmb]

I’m probably somewhat overreacting to you because you’re in the shortlist of players that really didn’t look good from yesterday. But maybe I’m giving you too much grief and Norway too little.

[Andresvmb]

DON'T BE FUCKIN' TIMID.

My name is literally quiet. Timid is like, my whole thing.
Don’t take it from me, it’s all I have.

I’m so quiet that Mom didn’t even notice me enough to put me on her reads list but still thinks I’m scummy.
It’s tragic really.


Andres. Is what they did really softing the role? They claimed two roles yesterday.
And would they really target someone scummy or someone dangerous? I thought Norfolk was basically the perfect frame.

Or maybe Norfolk is just scum, and we get a tracker out of the bargain. GGs NM for the god tier tracker choice.
If you’re happy with two elims for one mafia in the worst case, that it’s always worth the risk to maybe save a tracker to the point that even DISCUSSING it is preposterous, then sure. I’ll be on board.

VOTE: norfolk

I am fairly certain that if Not_Mafia is Scum and trying to frame someone, Norfolk would not have been up there as the target. Not enough game presence or pull to make it worth the inevitable execution the next day. Also note, they could have backtracked on their Tracker claim, kept the Weak Neighbor claim, and tried to frame someone tomorrow while possibly avoiding an execution today.

[Andresvmb]

Sorry haha they couldn’t have framed someone with the Weak Neighbor claimed I misremembered the modifier - they would have had to die for that to be the case.

[Andresvmb]

But also they could have easily claimed to have Tracked a player nowhere right? Like if you’re looking to play it risky, that one also works and you’re only exposing yourself in the case that the player went somewhere. Which I’m guessing is not *as* likely as guaranteeing your death by claiming a wrong Track to the execution.

[Andresvmb]

Yeah we had the same thought. And no ignore the Weak Neighbor analysis I confused Weak with Loyal.

[Andresvmb]

I really do think it’s fairly easy to get away with a fake Tracker claim for longer than this. It just boils down to that. I’m not seeing the trade from a Scum POV as making a lot of sense, unless the Scum are really trying to avoid Hayker getting executed for some reason? And Norfolk ended on Nero right?

[Andresvmb]

Yeah Norfolk did. I mean... Norfolk was a lot less visible on the Nero wagon, did not have a long list of posts, was slightly Town Read by a lot of players... it’s a good pick for the player to make the NK if Scum. Like that’s believable to me.

[Andresvmb]

Alright quiet I’m feeling somewhat better about your slot. I still have you in the POE but maybe not as low as I used to.

{Luca Blight, Norwegian} then. That’s part of my solve. That and Ranny still.
Norfolk obviously dies today, and if not Scum, Not_Mafia is done.

[Andresvmb]

I don’t think either of Norway or Ranny are scum rn

I don’t know. I would guess not all of the Scum were on Nero. Ranny has had too many funny interactions in my mind for there not to be something there.

And Norwegian/Bypasser contains 1 Scum I think. They’re both sidelining me and reading each other as Town too hard. Something is off there.

[Andresvmb]

But whatever I mean for all I know the Scum Team contains like {Titus, chkflip, Momrangal} and I have everything wrong. That’s also completely possible.

[Andresvmb]

Bypasser Catcher is still obvtown and i’m never eliminating there. Even if they were on the Nero wagon.

I will be meta-diving to see if you already know the answer to that one.

What on earth does this mean?

Just remember these posts for the future.

[Andresvmb]

ranny and norwee ur both town :///

And yeah this.

[Andresvmb]

Andres might be scum
He has several people he suspects who are obvtown imo and I’m not a fan of that

Who is obvTown that I’m pushing?

[Andresvmb]

Momrangal, and chkflip

Please show me where I pushed these slots. I’ll wait.

[Andresvmb]

And BC is getting all upset about getting called out on being super certain about a bad push and is trying to defend it, but I would argue that’s absolutely something they are completely capable of doing as Scum.

[Andresvmb]

Momrangal, and chkflip

Please show me where I pushed these slots. I’ll wait.

You had them in your alt partial team guess
Either you believe they can be scum or you threw people you think are town in there for no reason. Is your PoE really so narrow you had to do that?

No I didn’t. I was saying that it is entirely possible my view of the game is completely off, I suck, and those players that I TR in that list are actually Scum. I was heavily implying that I currently have TRs there.

[Andresvmb]

Well Gamma seems intent on finding something that just isn’t there and I don’t get it. And it’s frustrating because Gamma is actually my top TR.

[Andresvmb]

I have the game like this right now:

Town
{Nero Cain [Vanilla Town], MiniMegabyte/Mathblade [Town Role Watcher]}
Lean Town
{CheekyTeeky/Not_Mafia, Gamma Emerald, Momrangal}
Slight Lean Town
{Binatog13, Vaxkiller, BBMolla, Titus, chkflip}
Neutral
{plusJOYED, Hayker, quiet}
Slight Lean Scum
{DGB, NPOM/Bypasser Catcher, Rannygazoo}
Lean Scum
{NorwegianboyEE, Luca Blight}
Scum
{Norfolk Boy1}

BBMolla is my most uncertain Town Read, so take that one with a grain of salt. If Norfolk flips Town, flip with Not_Mafia obviously.

[Andresvmb]

plus and Hayker I just think is tough. And quiet could really swing either way. They could be playing up their newness to make bad suggestions. But I just think the tone is alright so that explains the positioning.

[Andresvmb]

I don’t even know if my distribution makes any sense at all. I just try to make snap judgments and constantly update based on what I’m reading.

[Andresvmb]

Now Momrangal has a core of 3 that she thinks are Town that I have all in my POE - DGB, Norwegian, Ranny. I think the view on DGB is overly optimistic. But I just don’t know that one I could very easily be very wrong on. I don’t think I’m completely wrong that {Ranny, Norwegian} contains 1 Scum, but if you trust Mom, then ignore me right?

[Andresvmb]

The triumvirate that pushed for Nero the loudest yesterday - Luca, Norwegian, Bypass. It’s within the realm of possibility they’re all misguided Town. Particularly if Norfolk flips Scum. But I just don’t know - it’s the argument that was used that makes me think there’s something there. And I would never assume that I’m exactly right on Luca and the other two are misguided, despite their constant attacks on my slot.

[Andresvmb]

Oh and Norwegian’s suggestion that the wagon could have been pure but not really, and that the NK points to Titus? Could be really what Norwegian thinks is reasonable. I think it’s Scummy.

[Andresvmb]

And the way he’s been shading me and Bypasser has felt so slimy.
I just really distrust that slot right now.

I'm actually an Odd Night Loyal Checker, my action on Norfolk last night failed

I'm town, someone interfered with my result

@Not_Mafia, even if someone had, we still have to execute you here. You changed your Claim too many times, with a wrong result, not to move forward with it.

[Andresvmb]

Particularly since you drove a wagon by claiming that Norfolk had been tracked to the NK. You didn’t correctly claim what had happened, explain it, and then let the Town decide. So yeah, absolutely you should be the execution.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[Andresvmb]

And the way he’s been shading me and Bypasser has felt so slimy.
I just really distrust that slot right now.

You’re either bad or Scum.

And Bypasser Catcher? They didn’t defend Not_Mafia at all?

[Andresvmb]

Norfolk's response was so scummy I was certain he was actually scum.

You don’t get to trick everyone else into an execution via mechanical means just because you think you’re sure of a read. I’m sorry, it’s just plain bad.

[Andresvmb]

I’m not going to give you a reprieve since you brought this entirely upon yourself. But I will say - if you’re actually Town, then it’s so costly that I am going to be kind of pissed about this whole thing.

[Andresvmb]

I'm actually an Odd Night Loyal Checker, my action on Norfolk last night failed

I'm town, someone interfered with my result

This, btw, came

after

the hammer. So yeah, you’re absolutely the execution today. There’s no other choice here.

[Andresvmb]

Also, am I the only one that did not believe Bypasser’s Mason claim?

[Andresvmb]

There was logic to my claim, I claimed a similar role (as in, it fails on scum) but even night so I wouldn't be interfered with on odd nights. I got a potential guilty, so I claimed tracker as a reaction test and then Norfolk refused to claim, everyone as end of day yesterday was saying he was obvscum due to his reaction.

If I get eliminated today, this ones on Norfolk and you guys for not giving me one more night to get a result

No, it’s on you for claiming a fake result. Don’t turn it onto the player that didn’t know how to react to a bullshit claim.

[Andresvmb]

And you didn’t claim Tracker as a “reaction test”, you claimed it the day before in a soft, and then weaponized it against Norfolk. No chance in hell you’re not dying today.

[Andresvmb]

My vote is locked. You might want to try and convince others, because I’m not moving.

[Andresvmb]

Because even if you’re Town, what happened gets executed 100% of the time unless we’re stupid. The potential for you to just be Scum, having lead the Town to a bullshit execution, and then trying to wiggle out of it now with excuses it’s too great.

[Andresvmb]

Anyway this is a waste.

@Norwegian I want to know why the first thing you decided to do today was shade me and say that I shouldn’t be trusted.

[Andresvmb]

I don’t think Andresvmb pushed N_M once on day 1, it’s been all defending him for the entire duration of that wagon.

Because you’re acting like I was pretending to be certain about Not_Mafia’s alignment.

[Andresvmb]

Andres-trying real hard to defend NM yesterday. I think it’s just wrongtown though.

I believe I defended Nero more strongly than I defended Not_Mafia, argued Hayker was probably bad to move back onto, and also said this about Not_Mafia:

Which read lists do you think are real?

The first one Not_Mafia put out, they said it was made with a random generator so obviously not that one. But the second one, I took that one seriously. And then just a short while after there was a third reads list and well, I think that just obliterates any reason to think even the second one was serious. I mean Norwegian went from a SR to a strong TR in a matter of some posts. I just couldn’t make sense of it.

So... you agree NM is scum?

I don’t know. That’s the truth.

I’m still somewhat confused by both the speed with which the Not_Mafia slot approached execution there in the middle of the day, and the certainty that some players are expressing that Not_Mafia is Scum. There’s definitely better players than me in this player list so who am I to judge that maybe. But I don’t know. There’s something funny about it.

But like, what makes it so unlikely? Fine if it was me trying to troll the crap out of the game. That would be one thing. This is standard stuff for Not_Mafia as either alignment. The one argument I could buy now is that Not_Mafia’s ever changing positions means they’re actually uninterested in truly contributing to the game. In that sense, yeah, maybe. But all these votes materialized before.

I've never seen Nero be like this in a large.

If I’m being completely skeptical, there’s a world where Nero is correct about Not_Mafia and wants to insist on it as Town above anything else. Since Not_Mafia could still self-resolve, I wouldn’t use the one position against them. But I don’t have any meta so you do you.

Like Norwegian is Scum I’m pretty sure. So they’re looking to paint me as Not_Mafia’s biggest defender to push me next. But like I was clearly struggling with it. You can be objective about it.

[Andresvmb]

@Mod I’m probably going to be away until tomorrow morning btw.

Unfortunately folks, I have some things to take care of. I don’t think I’m going to miss out on much, but we’ll see.

[Andresvmb]

I think DGB is full of shit to be totally honest.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: Norwegian

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: Norwegian

Looks suspicious. Norwegian is town. (Unless my definition about a role is wrong).

Explain.

[Andresvmb]

His posts are towny for me. Aside from that, that probably fits my read and actions. I'll post my gathered info if you want, but this might be beneficial to scum.

You seemed to be claiming a mechanical result. That’s why I wanted clarification. If it’s entirely reads based, then no I’m not particularly interested in following though helping explain where you’re coming from could be helpful to others.

[Andresvmb]

You seemed to be claiming a mechanical result. That’s why I wanted clarification. If it’s entirely reads based, then no I’m not particularly interested in following

How rude.
Binatog can't have good reads in your world?

They’re clearing you and saying I’m suspicious. So no obviously not.

[Andresvmb]

I am only interested in executing in {quiet, Luca Blight, Bypasser} today.

@Gamma thoughts?

Andres, why were these players the scummiest in the Nero wagon? (You don't have to answer about Bypasser)

Somebody was using bad logic to push Nero. It had to have come from somewhere. Town didn’t just wake up and where like oh, why don’t we create or push a wagon onto Nero because they’ve been MIA for a few days. Like clearly that was Scum driven. Which of the Scum was actually on it I don’t actually know. But I clearly fought the certainty coming from some players. That included those slots, and then at a future point I removed quiet and replaced them with Norwegian. Not all of those loud players pushing Nero were Town. Like I don’t think that’s the universe we’re in.

[Andresvmb]

I'm going to keep up my belief that Momrangal and Andresvmb are just bad players, but having 2 votes on me when i was one of the main driving forces in eliminating scum yesterday kinda hurts my pride and makes me want to scumread them.

Arguing obvious answers gives you no additional Town cred. And your comment there about how I was OMGUS’ing you did not go unnoticed. I have been harboring suspicions of you slot for days and stated them. You can try and minimize me as a bad player or succumbing to OMGUS, but it’s bullshit.

[Andresvmb]

His posts are towny for me. Aside from that, that probably fits my read and actions. I'll post my gathered info if you want, but this might be beneficial to scum.

You seemed to be claiming a mechanical result. That’s why I wanted clarification. If it’s entirely reads based, then no I’m not particularly interested in following though helping explain where you’re coming from could be helpful to others.

That's why I am asking some possible alignment from a role. I'll post my logs if you want. It might be too early, but it helps both teams I guess.

If you have identified Norwegian as a Role Cop, which is what you seem to be suggesting, then you should state it clearly.

[Andresvmb]

Andre isn't an old grandpa player?

What?

[Andresvmb]

@Binatog there’s a few possibilities here. I won’t go into them we need some additional information and mechanically we’re better off not saying much.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: Luca Blight

[Andresvmb]

Andre isn't an old grandpa player?

vmb stands for "very manly and bald."

Hahaha not in my case.

[Andresvmb]

Now let's eliminate scum Norweegaboo

I mean, I think I remember why I had Norwegian as Town. Some others have argued it was obvious too. I might be getting wrapped up in a lot of shade being thrown my way and not looking at this closely enough.

I should have maintained my focus on {Luca, quiet}. I think there’s Scum there.

[Andresvmb]

I re-read some of the push onto Cheeky. It was mighty consistent. I wasn’t focusing on Cheeky too much because they were absent, but Norwegian had a post in there calling them lurking Scum (and Nero agrees).

[Andresvmb]

I don’t like having to come out with my tail between my legs and say I was dumb, but I think Norwegian has a point.

[Andresvmb]

I might be too focused on how Nero Cain developed, not too focused on giving credit about Cheeky.

@Norwegian, Luca however shades Cheeky but doesn’t vote there, and is happy with going through with Nero.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: Titus

I don’t think we’ve pressured here enough, and I think this could also be Scum. There’s a lot of promises of work but nothing that’s actually done, and an admission that Not_Mafia’s flip makes them look bad.

[Andresvmb]

i could get down with a solve in luca. quiet, nm, bypasser and ranny.

I disagree with bypasser and ranny.

Hm actually never mind this seems kind of on point.

[Andresvmb]

Yeah I’ll stick to Luca.

VOTE: Luca

[Andresvmb]

Btw, I’m pretty sure Norwegian is Town, actually. Based on the information we have, I was definitely wrong there.

[Andresvmb]

Re-read the Role Watcher that flipped and tell me Bin is claiming something different.

I moved away from Norwegian on the back of that Claim actually, without realizing this.

[Andresvmb]

His posts are towny for me. Aside from that, that probably fits my read and actions. I'll post my gathered info if you want, but this might be beneficial to scum.

You seemed to be claiming a mechanical result. That’s why I wanted clarification. If it’s entirely reads based, then no I’m not particularly interested in following though helping explain where you’re coming from could be helpful to others.

That's why I am asking some possible alignment from a role. I'll post my logs if you want. It might be too early, but it helps both teams I guess.

If you have identified Norwegian as a Role Cop, which is what you seem to be suggesting, then you should state it clearly.

@Binatog there’s a few possibilities here. I won’t go into them we need some additional information and mechanically we’re better off not saying much.

I saw what they were claiming, and figured I would not press it too much. It makes sense that there’s a Role Cop on the hands of the Scum, because of the NK on Ranny.

[Andresvmb]

Also, we really should have executed Hayker. How is that player not Scum again? Molla just seems like Town to me based on today.

[Andresvmb]

I’ll catch up when I have some time I’m really busy right now.

[Andresvmb]

Did plusJOYED’s post allow them to circumvent the prod? That’s ridiculous. If they’re refusing to contribute so blatantly, then I actually think Titus has a point and we should execute there. I just don’t want to do it now - I actually think {Luca, Hayker, quiet} is certain to have Scum in it.

[Andresvmb]

Like Town doesn’t continue to avoid getting force replaced like that and not even try and help out at all.

[Andresvmb]

^Sigh Binatog try and use your words more.

[Andresvmb]

Also Binatog you seemed to be clearing Norwegian because a potential Town player that suspected them enough tried to block them from acting at night. Just a thought.

I’m not going back on what I said about Cheeky and that wagon. There’s still some truth to that. But still.

[Andresvmb]

Did plusJOYED’s post allow them to circumvent the prod? That’s ridiculous. If they’re refusing to contribute so blatantly, then I actually think Titus has a point and we should execute there. I just don’t want to do it now - I actually think {Luca, Hayker, quiet} is certain to have Scum in it.

I don't want to elim quiet but I'm fine with either of the other two

We’re both on Luca right now, correct? I’ll stay here for now.

[Andresvmb]

Andres, did none of Luca’s posts today look towny to you?

I don’t understand why you’re asking me this at all. Like this comes across as you trying to convince me of something without putting any effort forward.

If you think Luca is Town, you’re free to make an argument, and try and dissuade me from it. But just asking me and hoping I’m going to go down the rabbit hole and convince myself that Luca is Town is not going to happen.

[Andresvmb]

I did make an argument earlier today. I went through their iso, noted things that looked bad, noted things that looked good, and noted that I thought what they posted today looked actually pretty good to me. I’m asking if you’ve considered it because you gave basically the same read directly before NM came out with their claim and day2 got turned into a trade.

I’ll quote it here if you want, I’m on mobile so it’s kind of trash. I was just asking if you’d reconsidered your read on Luca at all today.

For purposes of how I’m reading the game, I am mostly ignoring everything that happened after Not_Mafia came out with a guilty on Norfolk. Anybody there knows that it is quite difficult to ignore the guilty and execute the person claiming the PR. Once the guilty is proven to be manufactured, it is also easy to come out and pretend like you are absolutely certain Not_Mafia is Scum and needs to die. Do you see me make any statements about my play around all that to defend myself? No. Because it’s noise. So D1 is the best place to dig for information in light of all of the flips we’ve had.

[Andresvmb]

I haven’t fully caught up yet with what’s happened today but of course that would also be helpful.

[Andresvmb]

I’m also going to say quiet - any half decent Scum player can make some posts look “Towny”. I try and dig a little deeper than that. No guarantees I’ll get anything right of course.

[Andresvmb]

I need some time to really sit down and digest what happened D1 based on what we know now. And there’s a fair amount of information we have already, actually.

I mean, my strongest TRs right now are {Momrangal, Binatog, BBMolla}, and I’m not particularly suspicious of {chkflip, Titus, Vax}, with the weakest read on Vax there. DGB I’m actually confused about, and need to think some more.

plusJOYED is purposefully trying to remain in the game, but not contribute, and I can’t figure it out.

Every time Hayker posts, it makes me want to execute there even more. And yeah Luca has had some bad progressions D1 which is why I voted there end of D1, and D2.

I don’t trust Norwegian trying to sideline Mom and I. It’s difficult to pin them down because yeah, they’re right about how they pushed Cheeky and they seem genuinely upset at not being universally Town Read (not that I think that they should be either).

Gamma is a tricky one. I keep flip flopping there. There’s already been some considerable shade thrown that way today, and I had them as Town but I find myself constantly wanting to re-evaluate.

Anyway, the point being I guess that not everybody can be Town with the TRs I have. It’s just what it is.

[Andresvmb]

I started re-reading the entire game, because I really wanted to focus on a lot of the stuff I felt I missed about how the Cheeky wagon came about.

plus is a bad execution here. And @Titus I think you’re Town, but you tying plus’ flip to mine is giving Scum cover.

[Andresvmb]

My reads have been dreadful. I get it now.

[Andresvmb]

Well except Luca. That slot is still very much Scum.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: BBMolla

[Andresvmb]

Gamma is 100% Town. After re-reading, I am not going back on that one.

[Andresvmb]

If you’re going to be introspective then might as well add on that you are wrong about Luca too.

You don’t think Scum ever bus eh?

[Andresvmb]

Andre, Andre, Andre

I don't think you need to worry about plus flipping town

No you’re right maybe I don’t.

I TR’ed BBMolla’s reactions today. I did. And I could potentially succumb to reading too much into D1. But I just find the way some slots really tried to divert pressure away from Cheeky (and looking at myself, I look plenty dumb) to be bad, and BBMolla is being rightly pressured for calling the votes on Cheeky boring.

[Andresvmb]

Anyway let me finish reading I’m still trying to just deep dive this game for once and figure out what’s going on.

[Andresvmb]

As in, i think you might be just tunneling.

Maybe.

[Andresvmb]

BBMolla is being rightly pressured for calling the votes on Cheeky boring

You think E-2 is good for being bored D1?

That's really what you're saying to me right now?

It’s not just that obviously. From looking closer at D1, they shaded Mini in 600, which is the same thing Luca does in 592 while ignoring the pressure building on Cheeky (Luca, not Cheeky). In fact, Luca’s first signal that they might be open to voting Cheeky comes in 715, after multiple key votes by {Norwegian, quiet}.

And 538 is a good post to keep in mind.

I also found Vax’s vote moving away from Cheeky in 621 to be interesting. But since Mini was the execution N1 (or father, Mathblade), I don’t know what to make of it.

[Andresvmb]

(Luca, not Cheeky)

(Luca, not BBMolla)*

[Andresvmb]

And 538 is a good post to keep in mind.

As in, if BBMolla flips Scum, then DGB is most likely good.

[Andresvmb]

Those read like a bunch of random thoughts, but it made sense in my head hahaha

[Andresvmb]

I'm pretty good at reading Norwegian (I literally just caught him as scum in a Newbie) and I'm pretty sure he is Town this game.

Andres is obvtown. I think Bypasser is Town as well.

I'd be surprised if Not_Mafia wasn't scum, given the history of the slot more than anything. I could see scum distancing themselves from it, or even actively bussing it.

Okay, MAYBE I’ve been tunneling you Luca. I actually think this is good.

I was an idiot D1 anyway.

[Andresvmb]

This is my POE right now: {BBMolla, Vaxkiller, Titus, plusJOYED}.

I’ve only re-read like a third of the game. So maybe this changes. But here’s where I’m at.

[Andresvmb]

Re-reading my posts is a painful experience. I was AWFUL.

[Andresvmb]

Titus is linking me to plus. If plus is Scum, Titus is Town I think. If plus is Town, then you already know they’re coming for me next.

[Andresvmb]

UNVOTE:

[Andresvmb]

I need to finish reading. I need more time.

[Andresvmb]

I have only upgraded Luca to like Neutral. There’s some posts there that make me iffy (like the post where they agree with Norwegian’s reads D1 which actually, outside of Cheeky, seem kind of bad). But those posts I just quoted? All the players they have there as Town are most likely Town or flipped Town.

[Andresvmb]

I mean this is the top of my pyramid:

Strong Lean Town
{Momrangal, Binatog13}
Lean Town
{Gamma Emerald, NorwegianboyEE, Hayker, DGB}
Slight Lean Town
{quiet, chkflip}

And unless we’re wrong about Momrangal mechanically, they’re some stuff D1 that wasn’t great. But I don’t want to go back on a mechanical solution.

[Andresvmb]

I could be wrong about chkflip, but again I need to keep reading I’m at like post #1100 or so.

[Andresvmb]

And if BBMolla flips Town, surely Luca needs to be pressured right?

[Andresvmb]

Like okay fine: {BBMolla/Luca, Vaxkiller, Titus/plusJOYED}. Something like this.

[Andresvmb]

Anyway, I’ll go back to reading.

[Andresvmb]

I'm really not interested in defending such a bad slot. But i do find it admirable that you are Andresvmb.

UGH I KNOW.

[Andresvmb]

Re-reading my posts is a painful experience. I was AWFUL.

Why do you re-read your posts?

I’m re-reading everything.

Also, sometimes I like to go back and see what I was thinking at any given time. Sometimes (not this game damn), but sometimes it helps me solve.