Large Normal 238 | Weiqi, Baduk, Go | Endgame

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: frogsterking for making the first thread of serious conversation in this game be a really dumb one

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: frogsterking for making the first thread of serious conversation in this game be a really dumb one

42 fireisred trying to shut down scumhunting during start of day noted

getting people engaged in talking about thr game delay and who may be scum as a result of it is directly counterproductive to scumhunting bc it's dumb and is not going to result in anything useful

cmv

[fireisredsir]

why does frogster sound so NEW, it's weird vibes for a 2011 join date

[fireisredsir]

why does frogster sound so NEW, it's weird vibes for a 2011 join date

Shade or curious?

no offense meant, new isn't bad. but when the way you are approaching and interacting with the game doesn't line up with how i would think an experienced player would, it could be cause you feel awkward and have trouble engaging genuinely as maf.

but on the other hand, if you are more new (and looks like you don't have a ton of games played actually) then it makes you make more sense to me

[fireisredsir]

why does frogster sound so NEW, it's weird vibes for a 2011 join date

You give off an impression of being experienced yourself, yet seemingly are not?

i have more experience with chat mafia but have some forum experience too

[fireisredsir]

tbh no one currently posting is causing great concern for me

We're getting like 3 posts a minute.

"no one (who is) currently posting"

not

"(the fact that there is) no one currently posting"

[fireisredsir]

Yeet seems trustworthy and makes a good point. But I think I'll stick with my vote for now.

this is scum

VOTE: tenebrous

[fireisredsir]

Yeet seems trustworthy and makes a good point. But I think I'll stick with my vote for now.

this is scum

VOTE: tenebrous

yeah that was not a great post

i mean yours right after was kind of similar... the vibes aren't as bad but still

[fireisredsir]

This post feels salty. Like the kind of salty you feel to push back at someone for the sake of it when someone pushes at you. Whether or not it’s scummy I can’t say for sure. In fact it may be towny.

huh? deas was agreeing with me that the tene post was bad, i was saying that theirs was similar. there was no push on me

[fireisredsir]

What was similar about it? What didn't you like about tenebro's post?

you both said you liked yeet's post but took no real position on what it actually meant. it's just weakly engaging, looks like content but doesn't say anything, and possibly some light pocketing. tene's was phrased more awkwardly but they're also newer than you, so meh

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: fireisredsir

thanks but why

[fireisredsir]

Okay following 163 I feel compelled to share wu is a townlean for me unironically.

Well folks, I think my work here is done.

Dang
How did you conclude that

I think 136 and 163 are more likely to come from town because they're unassuming and open up lines of discussion!

163 is not towny, fluff is not discussion. i don't think it's very scummy either but maf has more motivation to try to make friends than town does

[fireisredsir]

Huh do you mind elaborating why maf have more motivation to make friends than town? I'm going for a walk but I'll be back soon.

if maf is able to buddy up with a town then the town will be less likely to vote them. town doesn't care as much about making people less likely to vote them, it can be good to have town friends to work together with, but its a lesser concern imo.

and then both town and maf have the extra motivation to make friends cause we are all sad and lonely (:

[fireisredsir]

im interested in you, a person who has a readlist with minimal interaction thus far and a blatant buddy attempt

ah, what i mean is i'm generally more interested in your thought process.

the progression here feels like backing off, in a kinda sus way

[fireisredsir]

cape has kinda somewhat similar reads to me and thus he is correct in them and thus he is town

there's like 6 people who haven't posted yet so it's not too out there to believe that most of the people posting so far could be town. i may even go so far as to say that yeet might have been wrong in 66

[fireisredsir]

I'm not gonna get defenestrated this early anyway :O

is that a challenge

[fireisredsir]

i like the directions that fua and nero are looking so far, but after some research wu looks exaaaactly like he did in newbie 2073 so im less interested in that for now. tene and monkey i am more on board with

[fireisredsir]

I'm not gonna get defenestrated this early anyway :O

is that a challenge

did the rest of your post get cut off or something?

dearest me, ive forgotten my interrobang!

[fireisredsir]

nero what makes you townread tene?

[fireisredsir]

Frogster reads too much like newb town for me to bother suspecting him D1. I can see the reasoning but I don’t think scum would make/allow their teammate to make that level of blunder when it comes to handling Yeet. Townreading Wu for activity isn’t out of the question for a newbie either.

is there really that much coaching on this site? if it were me id just let him run wild and look as newb-town-y as he wants. i think he is more likely town but idk if that's why

[fireisredsir]

if i didn't know who monkey was, i'd scumread the shit out of that slot - but unless he has massively fallen out of shape, i'm just puzzled at his play here.

hey it's me, i don't know who monkey is and i scumread that slot. is there a reason i shouldn't? i skimmed a few past games and nothing changed my mind much in either direction

[fireisredsir]

i voted you a long time ago, so did datisi, and ari called you scummy in 208. the only new one there is dragons

[fireisredsir]

also I'm not really keen on scumreading someone for being fluffy this early as opposed to like actively scummy people.

this is p much my take too. he's often fluffy, i don't think it's very AI, i don't think there's a ton to learn from how he responds to pressure based on past games either, and there's other more interesting things to look at

[fireisredsir]

who are the monkey defenders?

[fireisredsir]

would someone just tell me who we are going to kick off the island, monkey or Wu? I need to know where to focus my energy!

also nero was this not you trying to consolidate wagons?

[fireisredsir]

Ah, it's just Datisi, isn't it?

not even really datisi, he said monkey was scummy and that he was willing to vote there. just that the play was confusing based on past experiences

[fireisredsir]

you're scum aren't you?

no, im relaxed yet sassy, didn't you hear

can you answer tho what is different in attitudes between that and what ari said

[fireisredsir]

the tone did sound like a joke but i didn't really get it, so it just seemed like a weird thing to say. is this that silly boomer humor?

[fireisredsir]

I think what fua was referring to there came later with 130, maybe 246. 116 is just sus on its own.

[fireisredsir]

- this in some ways reads like an OmGUS-y reaction to them voting you a few posts prior

based on what i know (admittedly not much) about skitter and datisi from a couple past games that i read some of, this seems like a weird thing to pick out. you really think that this point makes datisi scummy?

[fireisredsir]

as a more serious response, at the time Wu and Monkey were my top scumreads, and it's who I wanted dead and I can only tunnel one at a time. Mine was said in mostly jet but Ari's was a serious request. Also was not a fan of your deflect

i know it was in jest but i don't see how that makes it any different. actually, i think i would, as a rule, generally see a "i want to do this thing but haha I'm joking about it" as more scummy than "I want to do this thing and I'm serious about it". in this situation i don't really see either as scummy but you calling out ari for it reminded me that you had expressed what looked like a similar attitude, so it was weird to me that you would call that out.

what do you think i was deflecting?

[fireisredsir]

wait no i rember

I'm saying that it looked like a snap-reaction to a vote on him that he has no good reasoning for, yes

this is like, again, ignoring the basics of how i play scum and how much i plan things through and how much i value having an explainable thought process about my posts and votes and etc

so like the idea that i would snap vote someone because lol haha omgus and not have a reason read why i'm voting them and then go back later on to try to retcon it is like bonkers, and i don't believe skitter like, actually believes that's how i play lol

this is what i was seeing w.r.t. skitter making that point about you. like... really? i both thought that skitter was better than that and also that they would think that you are better than that. so idk where i land on this situation, but it's weird

[fireisredsir]

@Mizzy

, I am voting for Datisi.

use [ ] vote tags and it won't get missed

[fireisredsir]

have kind of a hard time believing that monkey really thinks there's no way ari and datisi can be town here. this aggressive posturing feels a bit bluff-y to me

[fireisredsir]

Do you think the readlist was genuine at the time it was made and do you think the response when I asked her to elaborate her reads were unsuspicious? I read it as dodging questions with an OMGUS. Check that part of the thread again.

how is 219 dodging the question?

"sure which one are you interested in?"

that sounds like directly engaging with your question

[fireisredsir]

have kind of a hard time believing that monkey really thinks there's no way ari and datisi can be town here. this aggressive posturing feels a bit bluff-y to me

Bluffy in a scum way or a town way or equally likely to be either?

i don't know monkey well enough to know if he would be over-aggressive and bluff as town, but his other behavior looks scummy enough to me that I am comfortable reading this as fitting in line with that

[fireisredsir]

that sounds like directly engaging with your question

check the joke dismissal she makes after i make it clear that i'm interested in her slot, not her reads.

yeah, don't worry, i read it. a town would question a readlist because they see something about it that looks off. a scum would question a readlist because they know it's early in the game and so it's an easy thing to pick on. when you questioned her on a readlist, she wanted to see what prompted you to question it (and was clearly very willing to answer your questions if you had them). you kind of slid around that, and said you were interested in her overall thought process. she gave you another chance, asking what read specifically. you didn't have an answer.

that makes it clear that you were questioning the readlist not due to anything you saw that felt off about it, but just because you felt like "the whole thing was bullshit". that looks way more like a scum approach than a town approach, and she rightly called you out for that

[fireisredsir]

this is blatant framing. there isn't an easy prescribed behavior for how town or scum should react on a bullshit readlist. a town can easy question a readslist because it's an easy thing to get reads on.

what about the read list made you question it? i feel like that is a simple question that is at the crux of this debate and you still haven't given an answer to it

[fireisredsir]

The more I think about it, the more I just don't think scum HEM would decide to enter going guns blazing at Aristeia, of all people, who seems to be reacting to this in a very OMGUSy way (not that it's scum indicative). I assume there is history between the two from what I have read, and I would never as scum just attack someone like that flippantly who I know has a high chance of OMGUSing back at me.

I just don't see the scum motivation here.

he wasn't guns blazing. he was kind of nice about it actually, in a way that felt weird if it was a genuine suspicion, in 224. he came back to the thread guns blazing now, yes, but that's a different situation.

getting in a heated 1v1 is also very much a scum tactic because you don't have to put much energy elsewhere, and people will often townread you for it

[fireisredsir]

town get into heated 1v1's too. Is HEM being overly agressive. maybe

ye I'm not saying only scum do it, but yeet was saying scum would never

[fireisredsir]

I still feel it's a big stretch to say scum!HEM's scum agenda here is to get into a 1v1 with Aristeia to avoid doing real stuff in the thread and get townread for 1v1ing her. I think that's just a ridiculous agenda that doesn't make sense to me.

i don't think it was his agenda to start. if he's scum he probably was just poking at something that he thought was easy to poke at. when he came back today though i think he 100% had an agenda, whether he is scum or town, and that was to be way more aggressive and confident than he had any right to be, because from what I gather, he is pretty comfortable in that playstyle as either alignment

[fireisredsir]

It's more likely to me that he saw noticed something in particular as town and didn't care about how the possible interaction would unfold.

that's exactly the point, though. if he noticed something in particular as town, then he would have been able to point out a read that looked off. that was why ari prompted him for one. he's made it clear since then that he did not notice something in particular, he just thought that it was too early to have a read list

[fireisredsir]

ok ill just pause and let ari reply to things instead since apparently we are just gonna say exactly the same thing at the same time anyway

[fireisredsir]

@nero

what do you think i was deflecting?

[fireisredsir]

don't bully the children

except for the ones that are scum

[fireisredsir]

who's he, nordrom? he could be, his posts are bad. i thought you were talking in general tho since me and yeet are also 2022s

[fireisredsir]

who's he, nordrom? he could be, his posts are bad. i thought you were talking in general tho since me and yeet are also 2022s

Who's posts? Whaaa?

yours, i was replying to nero. "who's he, nordrom?" = "who are you referring to, do you mean nordrom?"

[fireisredsir]

What's so bad about my posts, chief?

Bad as in maf or town. If I'm posting posting shit as town, then that would be easy to figure out, right?

just like... feels like you're picking out the wrong things to care about. your brief back and forth with nero was weird ("why'd you vote?" "why'd you tell me why you voted?" "why were you honest?" "oh i didn't mean you should lie") and you just kinda sound awkward most of the time. im not sure it makes you maf but it doesn't look good

[fireisredsir]

id say i have datisi on the town side of null at the moment. i didn't really get the sense that there was a universal agreement on him looking bad

[fireisredsir]

It's not as effective as "calculated" responses, but it's easy to get a town-tell read from, which I do at this point

can you clarify what you mean by this sentence, i don't know if I'm interpreting it correctly

[fireisredsir]

It's not as effective as "calculated" responses, but it's easy to get a town-tell read from, which I do at this point

can you clarify what you mean by this sentence, i don't know if I'm interpreting it correctly

What I mean by "calculated" is, in this context, being well-thought out and with precision. Precision to attack points with counter-arguments clearly and concisely.

what about the other part of the sentence

[fireisredsir]

yes, explain "easy to get a town tell from". use more words and be specific

[fireisredsir]

zzzz I'm literally just trying to understand what exactly you meant because it is unclear and i would rather not suspect you over something that you aren't actually saying

[fireisredsir]

you have given exactly zero additional explanation but whatever it isn't even very important, if you want to be difficult thats fine

[fireisredsir]

nah

VOTE: Nordom

[fireisredsir]

Nah, what? Is this your "gut-read" push here, fire?

nah your reason for townreading monkey was bs, and it looks like you're refusing to commit any more words to it to avoid digging yourself a deeper hole because you know it's bs. and nah the cocky attitude isn't going to stop me from voting you

[fireisredsir]

Nah, what? Is this your "gut-read" push here, fire?

nah your reason for townreading monkey was bs, and it looks like you're refusing to commit any more words to it to avoid digging yourself a deeper hole because you know it's bs. and nah the cocky attitude isn't going to stop me from voting you

Then why didn't you just say that from the start? It took you voting me after all those replies to finally say that?

because as i said i wanted to give you a chance to clarify your words to see if I was misinterpreting. or if I wasn't, so that you would spell it out more clearly and commit to your reasoning. your refusal to do so is telling. like i said tho, it's not really that important of a point, i think you're maf for other things as well

[fireisredsir]

have kind of a hard time believing that monkey really thinks there's no way ari and datisi can be town here. this aggressive posturing feels a bit bluff-y to me

This begs the question of then do you think all 3 are mafia based off of this?

huh? no, why would i think that? i think that monkey was not making an honest read of the situation

[fireisredsir]

if you're scum, obviously you want me to townread you. but, you know that those tiny bits of my "things that town!vp does" list won't help you because we both know they're on that list. bUT ALSO, you know that i know that. so now i'm like, would scum!baltar purposefully drop these little hints, *knowing* that i'm gonna notice them and start losing sleep over them, in order to get into my head?

lmao, this is like a day 6 endgame level paranoia and we're only 36 hours in. the legends are true...

[fireisredsir]

Reading through Nordom's style, I dunno if this is how they usually play it, but it also feels like there's a weird mix of some absolute statements and suspicions mixed with a lot of tentative questions directed at other players like their conviction stance on Datisi. A bit like they're content to be forceful and pushy with some players but not with others.

i saw this too, when they did the cocky "mmhmmm" thing with skitter after a terrible argument they were super quick afterwards to be like "but don't worry i townread skitter" bc skitter is apparently kinda scary

[fireisredsir]

Malcom, I think you're getting too over-excited in the pants from Datisi's lazy town read on you. You gotta dig deeper.

this is p funny coming from someone with the laziest townread/pocket attempt of the game with 881

[fireisredsir]

I think this is one of my more clearly townie posts, so I don't think we will see eye to eye about it.

ok other people have been louder and more distracting but let's not forget about tene. why are you so concerned with evaluating how towny your own posts are?

[fireisredsir]

UNVOTE: nordom

still suspicious of the slot but i accept that the attitude may have colored my impressions, if there's a new person in there im willing to see what they have to say

[fireisredsir]

oof on that VP read and Scorpious read. The rest I can kind of get.

why's scorpio get a specific call-out? "slightly town of null but non-headache-y" seems like a pretty unassuming spot for him to go. and i don't think you've made any comments about sorting scorp yourself

[fireisredsir]

seeing frog on that chart reminded me that he's been gone for a while

I'm going for a walk but I'll be back soon.

he never made it back from his walk ):

[fireisredsir]

They've kind of been piling on to individual wagons and their three votes have just been whatever's easiest to pick out at the time. I think their callout of Tenebro was okay but I also want to see who they actually scumread throughout today.

mm idk about this characterization. mediator, sure ok, that's just kinda what i do sometimes. dunno why thats a scummy thing. but for my votes, i voted tene before anyone besides datisi and everyone else piled on after, and i was the first to vote nordom (although nero had mentioned suspicion before that), and everyone voted after. idk what my 3rd vote was, unless it was rvs and that's rvs. but anyway, is that piling onto wagons?

my main scumreads atm are nordom's slot, monkey, and tene.

[fireisredsir]

Fire and Wu might actually be scumbuddies now that I think about it. Especially since Fire linked a game where he plays completely differently to how he is now and stated that he looks townie here for it.

huh? he was playing exactly the same at the point that i linked it. that was a long time ago. since then he's disappeared and done nothing and that's def more scummy than the game i linked, but you can't say that because he deviated from it AFTER I made the comparison that my comparison is invalid

[fireisredsir]

wu hasn't done anything to make me think he's town (my meta read = he's always a fluffposter early, so that means nothing to me, and i don't see any reason to suspect him for it) but imo he's not a very useful place to push yet for the same reasons you said scorp isn't

[fireisredsir]

No, he was actually making an effort to solve within the first day compared to what he's done here which is practically nothing. He's barely given any opinions at all here while in that game he was actually being considerate and taking people's approaches into account.

If you think he looks more scummy now then why isn't he a scumread for you?

at that point (like 12 or so hours in) in both games he was like 80% fluff with a couple minor relevant comments, mostly about theoretical play. that's the same to me.

now since then he's disappeared. is that scummier? yeah. is he for sure scum for it? no, he's only played in small games and this is a huge and fast one that he could easily get lost in. is it also LHF that maf will take advantage of if he's town? yeah. is it an appealing day 1 lim? not at the moment, to me at least

[fireisredsir]

Also, it's not impossible that he's trying to mimic his town game here because he knows that it would be a way to TR him regardless.

yea, it's very possible. i didn't ever townread him i just think it's a boring place to push. tbh if he's scum i don't think he's good enough to survive very long anyway so other places are more interesting to look for now and will also give us more information

[fireisredsir]

i just don't really see what makes him scum over the other low content posters

[fireisredsir]

that's fair, you've changed my mind somewhat. would like to see what he says when he does catch up but I'd be more willing to vote there now than I was before

[fireisredsir]

in the flurry of early posts, while participating in them live i kinda mentally binned yeet as new and confident and that i would probably disagree with a lot of his takes because of it, but that he seemed towny enough. looking back at the ISO now though, im less sold on that. agreed that the sequence malcolm pointed out was bad

[fireisredsir]

who is even defending you

[fireisredsir]

who is even defending you

I don't have any posts to hand but there's definitely been a couple of posts who have been less keen on a Wu vote at this stage. Nobody is exactly mounting a huge defence but then suspicion of him has been sporadic - if still fairly consistent - anyway for the most part.

eh this is why i said a long time ago that i didn't think seeing his response to pressure was going to be that useful -- he responded to pressure in pretty much the same way in both his scum and town games (basically like this, pretty nonchalant)

[fireisredsir]

ok for those interested in meta, i looked more at wu past games and he did disappear for 2 days while he was the top wagon as scum, so there's that.

but then also found this quote from datisi about wu in a game where wu was town:

I'm not exactly worried about him not having read the game, like if he just popped in, said "lmao you post a lot i'm busy catch yall later" and left i wouldn't really care for it?

but like he got in, said that he hasn't had the chance to read, but then he's making comments about unimportant things like "if i had a mafia partner who wanted to die, i would kill them and claim vigilante" and "on a different website i randed scum more than town" which like

why?

like i get it could be a personality trait or wtv but it just seems like something more likely to come from scum wanting to appear more active and engaged than they actually are

no major conclusions here just fun facts

[fireisredsir]

apparently being more interested in other directions = defending

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: monkey

[fireisredsir]

I think the HEM wagon is sorta fast. Kinda makes me wary but maybe that still flips scum, idk.

i kinda thought the same for a bit, but isn't any wagon in a game this big gonna feel sorta off?

[fireisredsir]

this got kinda wild. i feel like math is making assumptions about the game state and how it developed that are not really based on much and are not really accurate. but i think the whole "go go go disrupt scum plans" thing is kinda neat in principle at least

VOTE: tenebro

[fireisredsir]

VP is also intriguing to me, i had a soft TR there earlier due to similarity in reads, but I'll give it a reread with the fresh info

[fireisredsir]

this got kinda wild. i feel like math is making assumptions about the game state and how it developed that are not really based on much and are not really accurate. but i think the whole "go go go disrupt scum plans" thing is kinda neat in principle at least

VOTE: tenebro

Interesting.

What assumption do you think is wrong?

And why do you TR Wu?

And why do you agree tene is scum despite my “assumptions being bad”?

1. your wagon wasn't very significant once nordom replaced out. i don't think it was going anywhere. monkey one was tho, it was shifting towards monkey vs wu. datisi actually had a decent amount of votes at various points but i don't think he is generally scumread, doubt it would have been a lim there. maybe I'm biased there tho cause I scumread most of the people on his wagon. i also don't think it's clear or guaranteed at all that wu/datisi were the main wagons and scum shifted to you/monkey. things were still pretty fluid, and obviously there is the possibility that all 4 of those are town in which case scum wouldn't care which wagon was leading.

2. i don't. pretty neutral on him. thought he was a LHF wagon but ended up kinda coming around to thinking he could be a decent lim. still don't really scumread him tho

3. i've thought tene was scum basically all game, has nothing to do with you

[fireisredsir]

Then join the Wu wagon?

If we go with your assumption (which a mod VCA doesn’t seem to support) then the monkey wagon v Wu is either TvS or TvT.

Knowing which illuminates what happened there.

If you disagree those (Wu/Datisi) were the main wagons which happened?

id prefer a tene wagon! open to the possibility of joining wu but i think since things are currently resorting themselves i would like to put my top scumread forward as an option

VP was hard pushing wu vs monkey for pages, and that was because those were the wagons that had the most traction, in his eyes at least, and i agree. consolidation was just barely starting to happen tho, the day still felt pretty early to me when you came in

[fireisredsir]

like we're less than 48 hours in. yea there's been a lot of pages, but there's really barely been anything that you could truly call a wagon

[fireisredsir]

like we're less than 48 hours in. yea there's been a lot of pages, but there's really barely been anything that you could truly call a wagon

There were >1000 posts when I replaced in.
There’s been multiple wagons. That’s a fact.

This is NAGL

what's a NAGL

yea obviously there's been people that have had multiple people voting them. but the only one to even get past E-5 was monkey. idk in a game this big i don't really see 3-4 votes as that significant of a wagon. none of them really felt like they were building up to go anywhere until recently on monkey and wu

[fireisredsir]

NAGL = not a good luck.

VCs posted by mods dispute your post fire.

There’s been wagons on Datisi if there’s been some on Wu.

This is just bad posting

where's the VC that has someone getting past E-5 besides monkey? im talking about wagons that had the possibility of turning into a lim. i don't think there were many of those based on the general suspicions of people at the time

[fireisredsir]

Don’t get me wrong my predecessor was being mean to put it mildly

But that many votes on policy elims means scum don’t want the active wagons.

my vote wasn't policy. i thought both were scum because they looked scummy.

[fireisredsir]

i don't see the point in not believing the claim at the moment

but I will say that crumbing (in the least secretive way possible) in an entry post and then literally 25 minutes later being like "im mason, look at my crumbs for proof" and then "oh i had to claim because both masons were wagoned QUICK VOTE THESE SPECIFIC OTHER PEOPLE THERE'S NO TIME" is hilarious

i especially like the "hum de dum I'm gonna go hunt scum in a VC" and then coming back with "oh NO me and my mason partner are the lead wagons?? whaaat??" for extra dramatic effect

[fireisredsir]

in some ways I don't really like people agreeing with that post tbh

[fireisredsir]

if tene isn't gonna happen I'm ok with wu

[fireisredsir]

my 1452 was straight-up a joke and had nothing to do with the game. But arguing that one of Dats/Wu has to be scum doesn't seem like a great argument, your sister was wrong as fuck when she used it and you're prob wrong too.

You’re not addressing the substance of why I think one of Datisi/Wu are scum though.

You’re referencing an irrelevant game

I don’t see why scum move from both Datisi/Wu onto HEM/me. Why?

ok, looking at the progression of votes on those four players:

253 - datisi (4), monkey (3), wu (0), monkey (0)
475 - wu (4), datisi (3), monkey (2), nordom (0)
625 - datisi (5), monkey (3), wu (1), nordom (0)
904 - datisi (5), nordom (3), monkey (2), wu (1)
1050 - datisi (4), nordom (4), monkey (2), wu (1)
1175 - monkey (5), datisi (3), wu (2), nordom (1)
1254 - monkey (6), nordom (4), wu (2), datisi (1)

saying that there were clear leading wagons of datisi/wu and that scum moved things to you/monkey is not backed up at all by what happened. monkey wagon came before wu. wu wagon, by the VCs, was actually never very prominent. there was one point out of 7 VCs where datisi/wu were the two leading ones, but it's super arbitrary to pick out that one.

the shift of things onto wu lately is actually the most interesting thing here, imo

[fireisredsir]

I would like to reiterate that I took HEM's side of things and only voted you, Math, because VPB was hassling me for voting Dragons. I will drop the subject here.

UNVOTE:

can we just lim this instead please

[fireisredsir]

This argument reinforces Wu scum even more. This isn’t the shining bullet you think it is.

how so? serious question, I'm curious for your reasoning. i don't think it's a shining bullet (? lol), i have no horse in this race, im just trying to show you why your interpretation of events is not necessarily the reality, and that therefore the assumptions your making based off of your interpretation are kinda useless to the rest of us

[fireisredsir]

you know Math. It was mainly me _ fua that had driven the Wu wagon. if Wu were to flip town we get blamed. That back to back to back skitter-VP-Yet rapid voted on HEM is prob from scum.

can you expand on this, i am interested but i feel like I'm missing a step between the first half and the last half. if those two are supposed to be connected then i don't follow the logic

[fireisredsir]

This argument reinforces Wu scum even more. This isn’t the shining bullet you think it is.

how so? serious question, I'm curious for your reasoning. i don't think it's a shining bullet (? lol), i have no horse in this race, im just trying to show you why your interpretation of events is not necessarily the reality, and that therefore the assumptions your making based off of your interpretation are kinda useless to the rest of us

Datisi top wagon becomes
Wu top wagon
Back to Datisi followed with a rapid departure from Wu
Nordom (me) is being counter wagoned

Wu was abandoned hard

There needs to be a catalyst why.

i mean one possible catalyst is that nordom looked scummy? maybe I'm just too biased here bc I know that I'm town and I scumread both nordom and monkey, so i don't see why it has to be scum that led those wagons. but anyway, ignoring that, you think it's impossible that all 4 are town? why? why can't it just be natural evolution of town thought? why does everything day 1 have to be orchestrated and planned by scum? you've played enough games to know that there often isn't some grand plan for scum, especially on day 1 when everything is chaos and the lim is almost never gonna be maf, they just will want to blend in

[fireisredsir]

why can't the explanation simply be that HEM was p scummy and got votes because he was playing somewhat scummy?

you know just because someone has a town role PM doesn't mean it's impossible for them to play in a way that is scummy right?

He didn’t though.
I disagree with that assertion seeing the mason Pt and some of his posts
HEM just wasnt

what makes you (someone coming in with prior info about his alignment, therefore making you completely unable to honestly gauge how suspicious he looks) the arbiter of what is scummy and what is not? you can't just declare that someone wasn't scummy when there was, by definition, town voting for them

[fireisredsir]

i can't believe that you seriously can't comprehend the possibility that you knowing two alignments is affecting your ability to accurately assess whether those slots look scummy to an outside perspective or not. is everyone who votes town either scum or blind to you? you know that happens, like, all the time. right?

[fireisredsir]

Because there was a wagon of 6 on monkey and a wagon of 4 on me.
These all can’t be town
Therefore scum
Therefore point proven

i mean they literally can, there's 19 players in the game. i assume there probably was at least 1 or 2 scum in there but you are just wrong here my dude, and there's enough people telling you that now that you should be smart enough to realize that

[fireisredsir]

im saying that there is scum here.

scum just lets my big ass push a Wu wagon while they comfortably sit on HEM. I also have a super-secret reason why VP/Skitter contains scum.

did that have anything to do with what you were saying about you/fua getting blamed if wu flips town or were those separate thoughts

[fireisredsir]

Does anyone disagree with that summary?

i do love the just complete lack of self-awareness to say this, then have like, 8 people disagree with the summary, and then just decide to stick with it anyway. it's kinda admirable in a way. i hope to someday be that blindly confident in myself

[fireisredsir]

it seems like you expect both town and maf to play perfectly, according to your own model of what you believe to be perfect play. guess what, nobody does that! and also your model is wrong!

[fireisredsir]

it seems like you expect both town and maf to play perfectly, according to your own model of what you believe to be perfect play. guess what, nobody does that! and also your model is wrong!

Perfectly no.
I do expect some sort of strategy/manipulation from scum though.

So aimlessly floating isn’t really a strategy
If scum were doing this they’d be open to sheeping wrong me and Wu would have sped up rather than resistance
Scum have a plan somewhere and don’t like they’ve lost control

i will let you in on a secret

a super secret maf agenda that 99% of people who play maf follow

this is their main priority and what motivates almost all of their actions

Spoiler: secret maf agenda

try to look like town

and guess what doesn't mesh well with that agenda? manipulation and orchestration and strategy! really really good scum can do both at the same time, but i hate to break it to you, most people are not that good at scum, and are too busy treading water trying to not get suspected to worry about your grand ideas of strategy and organizing moves off wagons and all that.

[fireisredsir]

fire is saying things that i wanna say, but better

they can be my math-related lawyer for the next few hours

nope im going to sleep ive said all i can on the subject

[fireisredsir]

Also, fireisredsir defended me for a time, right?

i didn't think i was tbh but fua and nero have said it enough times that im starting to believe it

[fireisredsir]

@scorpio do you have any reads?

[fireisredsir]

I mean I guess you could make the argument that saying that his meta looked the same 321, not a useful push 1077, better places to look 1094, "but these other low content posters!" (skitter said the same thing) 1100, we don't learn much from pushing him 403 are not defenses of Wu and you were just town playing the game and trying to do what you felt was right but they do look like a defense to me.

yea i would make that argument, but if you're looking for a defense i get how you could see one there. 321 was talking myself down from a scumread into a "ehh maybe he's fluffy as town too" and after that it was mostly "this push is boring to me". also kinda looked like a LHF wagon that scum was probably on so i was more interested in who was on it (tene joined it cause he's scum)

[fireisredsir]

i agreed with ari and saw the monkey/her interaction making way more sense from her side. with monkey unknown alignment that had me leaning more town on her, but if monkey is town then that doesn't mean as much to me. i have mostly agreed with other things she's said too, but i haven't seen her make many reads besides monkey in a while

[fireisredsir]

Fua, if you felt Ari was being scummy in the Ari v HEM fight why would you agree that Fire was scummy for being the mediator in that fight?

because now they decided I'm not the mediator anymore cause that doesn't suit the new narrative of me "hopping to Ari's defense" (which tbh is probably more accurate anyway, i believe I was on the side of REASON and LOGIC as always but i think that was more ari's side)

[fireisredsir]

So this doesn’t mean anything?

my interpretation of mediator is being on the side of reason and logic. i think i was doing that, and i think i try to do that a lot. i think that was more ari's side in this case

also fwiw reason and logic don't really correlate that strongly to being town, scum is often the more reasonable and logical one in a 1v1. but i still find it personally useful to me to "mediate" as you call it because i think it helps me get a better feel for the alignments of the people involved

[fireisredsir]

If you think I’m scum now you can always vote me.

not especially but i think it's a possibility! i have agreed with enough of your reads, mostly early on, that i am not that suspicious. but you do seem to be making an effort to look town in a way that i hadn't seen when i looked st your previous town games. but maybe that's just a playstyle change to try to be more useful, which is a good thing

[fireisredsir]

“Yeah, that’s fair. I tend to be on the side of reason and logic sometimes” is apparently what you said there. Which makes zero sense in that context. This is just backpedaling.

why doesn't that make sense? that's what i thought you meant. mediator = impartial judge who helps resolve a conflict through the use of reason and logic. that's how i would define it at least

[fireisredsir]

mm ok then i would disagree with being called a mediator because i do not think peace was my goal. resolution, maybe?

[fireisredsir]

I have mixed feelings about all of the available targets right now. I'm not sure whether to pick my favorite and go there, or make a more sincere but useless vote while I wait and see how the wagons develop. For now, I shall do nothing.

also this is still scum

[fireisredsir]

ari who do you think is scum now?

[fireisredsir]

Like Skitter hasn’t had a “ping” she gets pings. It’s weird.

what does this mean?

and like, the rest of your post could be easily explained by different circumstances that precedent, especially for what i imagine happened in the mason pt, but

idk if i have it in me rn to argue

It’s a word tell.

Skitter gets “pings” when town.
I don’t see that here for her

ok i was gonna make fun of this cause it doesn't say anything about whether she gets "pings" as maf, but instead i decided to just go check some recent games

slaughter hour (maf): 0 pings, 350 posts
open 841 (town): 11 pings, 1073 posts
micro 1035 (town): 3 pings, 295 posts
mini 2254 (town): 1 ping, 77 posts
mini 2247 (maf): 1 ping, 130 hydra posts
mini normal 2224 (maf): 0 pings, 50 posts
open 779 (town): 7 pings, 305 posts

this game: 1 ping, 130 posts

so maybe she does actually get pings less as maf. but her pings per post (ppp) as town is like 1 per 100 posts and she's kinda on pace with that so idk if it's conclusive. but this was fun at least

ping ping ping ping

[fireisredsir]

addendum: most of her pings in those games were in her early posts, so she's actually probably pretty well behind her usual town ppp

[fireisredsir]

so scum is Ari/skitter/???/???

Fire taking Ari's side in Ari v HEM wrong town or a scumbuddy?

taking the wrong side in a 1v1? i would never

[fireisredsir]

taking the wrong side in a 1v1? i would never

this is hilarious considering

yes i know thank you i am hilarious, glad you have come around to the zoomer humor

[fireisredsir]

*pops in*

anyone thinks how it makes no sense for scum!ari to purposefully act contrarian to the mason + other pushes and avoid doing what they are asking her to do at the time a wagon is rapidly building on her? no? just me? ok

*pops back out*

but maybe it does make sense if she thinks that you'll think it makes no sense...

[fireisredsir]

how often do you actually see scum use the "i will purposefully act scummy here in order for people to start wondering whether i would be acting scummy like this here and to unvote me!!"

well ok i sometimes do that, but other than me

yeah lol i don't really believe that it's a likely scenario i just thought it was funny paranoia haha

[fireisredsir]

I don't actually think I'm acting scummy.

it would be acting townier of you to give some reads besides scorpio who really doesn't count

[fireisredsir]

1711 town reading fire now. I had this slot as a town lean for a long time. I'm not sure about the accuracy of 1711 but I don't think this effort comes from scum.

you shouldn't be townreading for effort in general, we have some very effort-maf players in this game

[fireisredsir]

im kinda down for the belief that a good chunk of the scumteam is on the less active side, cause most of the active posters seem more towny to me and that's unusual for me, usually I think everyone is potential scum

[fireisredsir]

I don't actually think I'm acting scummy.

it would be acting townier of you to give some reads besides scorpio who really doesn't count

ous... Why don't I count?

this game you don't cause you had basically done nothing yet

[fireisredsir]

1711 town reading fire now. I had this slot as a town lean for a long time. I'm not sure about the accuracy of 1711 but I don't think this effort comes from scum.

you shouldn't be townreading for effort in general, we have some very effort-maf players in this game

Okay who?

p sure skitter and datisi both have that reputation but i could be wrong on that cause ive never played with them, just read some

[fireisredsir]

She thinks she is gonna die and doesn’t wanna give anything away

i don't believe that she thinks she's gonna die as either alignment here tbh

[fireisredsir]

p sure skitter and datisi both have that reputation but i could be wrong on that cause ive never played with them, just read some

out of curiosity, which games of mine did you read?

endgame of 2258 plus i think somewhere else where you were maf or where someone was talking about you. and small bits of other games, idk. idr if you were in slaughter hour but skitter was and i read a lot of that one, that was a fun read

[fireisredsir]

Ari, Deas, and Fire are all putting Wu in their scumreads, Yeet and Skitter are trying to push a wagon on me, and VP is directly staying on Wu still (even if he's the one I least suspect out of the six).

you were the one who convinced me that wu was not such a bad lim after all. and that's still where im at, i don't think my position on wu has really changed since then. thonk

[fireisredsir]

Yeah, and that was... thirty pages ago? So almost an entire half of the game passed between then and now.

yes. so? you said you don't like the wu wagon as much now partly because i put him in my scumreads. that didn't happen. so why? besides that you're just following nero around

[fireisredsir]

Because I don’t think you’re thinking about the game critically and are trying to deflect onto other people when possible. And I’m really not following Nero around, since I completely disagree with his reads on Mathblade, Yeet, and VP.

you TR wu in 257. then Nero shows up and is sus of wu in 283. you say good point in 285 and follow Nero to wu in 292.

nero says I'm a mediator in 898, you say I'm a mediator in 1063

you also TR skitter in 1063. Nero starts wanting a skitter lim in 1325. you SR skitter in 1414.

nero starts getting less interested in wu somewhere around 1370. you switch off wu onto ari in 1623, and say you're hesitant with the wu wagon now on 1791. you did vote ari before him, so credit there.

Nero says there's scum in VP/skitter/yeet in 1506, you say yeet is in your solve in 1658. (you had already leaned scum on yeet earlier, so this isn't a switch of opinion, but you def do not have the opposite read)

Nero says that ari's vote on scorp is bad because she's voting limbait in 1702, you say ari's vote on scorp is bad because she's voting limbait in 1804.

mathblade read is irrelevant because he is claimed mason, so i don't know why you have that as an example of a place where you and Nero differ. the only one that stands is VP. anyway it's not like you're going to agree with him on every single read, so pointing out one where you don't doesn't disprove my point. it's a pattern of general behavior of sheeping after things he says, even down to using the same phrasing that he does

[fireisredsir]

she voted Scorp for ???? reason. You attacking me for voting Ari has shit all to do with her.

you're right, it has to do with you changing your read from town to scum for a bad reason on a player that started picking up steam

pedit: why

fwiw ive been reading nero more as town bc I think in general he has been having independent thoughts, some paranoia/second guessing that i think feels town for him (384, 414, 1229, 1337, 1353). just feels like genuine solve attempts to me

[fireisredsir]

i think it may not be him who has a reading comprehension issue here

[fireisredsir]

he is saying that your quote there reads like town Nero (probably cause he agrees with it, and in it you're defending ari). and saying that something happened to town Nero because you are not reading like town Nero to him anymore

[fireisredsir]

pedit: fireisredsir should be my lawyer for everything this game

as long as im a lawyer and not a mediator. mediators are bad, I've heard

[fireisredsir]

i mean i think 1855 is a fine line of reasoning. i don't think scorpio is a very good vote but i think the general philosophy is decent

[fireisredsir]

VP/skitter (moreso one, not as sold on both together, but maybe idk) is compelling to me but i think it'd be more likely paired with someone lurky

[fireisredsir]

if Datisi/Wu/HEM/Nor are all town it could just mean town are moving from one wagon to another while scum are twiddling their thumbs no?

Yet she scumreads Wu?
C’mon now

i did think this was kinda weird. i hadnt got the impression at all that she scumread wu until her read list

[fireisredsir]

I'm utterly confused how people can look at the Wu wagon falling apart a second time and not see that as scummy. By all accounts, Wu should be LHF that scum are eager to hammer through, yet it has stalled repeatedly at the cusp of being serious

mm maybe, but scum would probably rather not all pile on LHF if they think no scum is in danger of being limmed

[fireisredsir]

it also makes no sense to assume that scum would know that

[fireisredsir]

VP would you settle for a D1 fua lim?

What is the case? I'm sure it got lost in all this shit spew.

I didn't like fua early in the day, but I felt better about them recently after they explained some of their play in that chat with fire.

i talked about how they've been sheeping Nero all game in 1872. idk if i trust the people (tene) who jumped on that to vote for fua tho. yeet had already voted with 1629 and 1635, frogster wanted a lim there apparently but i can't find any reasoning, and skitter had voted with 1372

[fireisredsir]

that is a good point

VOTE: fua

[fireisredsir]

i mean you still seem to be basing all your assumptions on your guess that scum knew who both masons were and intentionally wagoned them, which is ridiculous, so idk why anyone wouldn't think you're wrong

[fireisredsir]

Because fua is currently my top scumspect. It’s pretty simple…

A "bland Iso" is causing your biggest scumread right now?

I think you're full of it... It's a horrible reason to begin with,looking at their Iso makes it even worse.

Got anything better? you just made me really hate this wagon.

1968 has the summary. you've played with scum fua before, do you think they are more buddying and trying to get townread as maf?

[fireisredsir]

(i already know the answer to that is yes)

[fireisredsir]

i was hesitant to trust tene, so for me personally that was a point against it. the other points i was just giving you other people's voting reasons, not really evidence for or against from my pov. just giving you the full case.

i also think that ari made a good point that scum would probably want to cooperate with math in this situation if he's wrong, which fua did

[fireisredsir]

seeing that rainbow text flash up on my screen when i refreshed the page terrified me tbh

[fireisredsir]

masons and a hood? interesting

would agree that at least one of the 4 is likely maf

[fireisredsir]

hmm, interesting. okay

UNVOTE:

[fireisredsir]

if fua is town, there goes my reasoning for why tene might not be scum

[fireisredsir]

fua are you gonna dislike the skitter wagon if i hop on? can we set aside our differences for a moment?

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: Skitter

im also ok with wu at this point but i like skitter lim more

[fireisredsir]

who said you're not? tene?

[fireisredsir]

i like this monkey better than the earlier one. monkey, math said you had an ari case and he was gonna let you make it yourself, in 1934. would you like to share or is it not relevant now that it's getting replaced?

[fireisredsir]

meh after sitting on it a bit, i think wu is better today. still interested in skitter for the future

VOTE: wu

[fireisredsir]

Yeah, what you're saying is fair here. There has to be some scum in there when that is half the town.

Did ari say both the mason wagons are pure? If so I missed that in the pages I didn't read

don't think so. she says she townreads people on the monkey wagon, and that she didn't think it was very helpful to say that there is at least 1 scum in 10 players and so wasn't planning to use that to vote with. see 1678, 1695[/post

[fireisredsir]

most sus thing about ari for me is that she had wu as a top scumread when i didn't get that vibe at all from her earlier, and she didn't ever vote there.

the post i find most in her favor (aka explaining her thought process in a way that feels town to me) is 1855, cause i had a similar read on the game state and it explains the directions she was pushing

[fireisredsir]

i'm on the side of REASON and LOGIC

i was already making fun of myself while posting that lol cause it's an objectively silly thing to say, you don't have to keep saying it

[fireisredsir]

ok as long as you don't think i was saying it unironically

[fireisredsir]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88600&user_select%5B%5D=29653

This is town her ISO

.

anything in particular that made you word this post like this? I'm not sure I understand what the town part in there is supposed to say

it's a link to a different game, where she's town, and talks about "pings" a lot. in contrast to this game where she hasn't much. see 1711 for more info

[fireisredsir]

I feel that I am being very transparent and open with my thought process and I have answered anxieties about me adequately.

it feels like you are doing your best to LOOK transparent and open, but it comes off looking kinda self-conscious and artificial. but it's also hard to know of that's just who you are, bc I also got those vibes at the start when i was townreading you

[fireisredsir]

also fwiw on skitter i am not very convinced by the ping thing, was mostly just looking it up for fun to see if math was at all right about it. for me the sus of skitter was more of a ~vibes~ thing (some of the reads felt constructed), and then after thinking on if some i decided a) there's no point pressuring her while she's away since she can't respond, and b) if she is town, she's gonna be a lot more useful to have around day 2 than certain other people who aren't doing anything. and in my mind it's not much more likely she's scum than wu anyway

[fireisredsir]

Fire, what is your current reads list? I may have missed it.

i don't really make readslists because my brain doesn't work like that but if you really want one i can give it a go

[fireisredsir]

okeydoke here you go

Spoiler: a not very useful readslist

the PR claim bucket:
[monkey, math, fua]

the feel towny vibes but I'm still kinda scared of them but I'm trusting them for now bucket:
[datisi, vp, Nero]

the feel towny vibes but im not very scared of them:
[cape, froggy, malcolm (maybe he belongs above? idk, where'd he go?)]

the lurky and could easily be scum but kinda feel more town to me for not very good reasons but i think we should call this "null" bucket:
[save dragons, scorpio]

the same as the above bucket but without the town part bucket:
[eyes]

the felt towny at first but now im not so sure bucket:
[yeet]

the i was conditionally somewhat trusting these people due to similarity on reads but now it turns out those reads were wrong and so I'm slightly more sus bucket:
[ari/April, deasvail]

the i would be willing to vote here bucket:
[tenebro, wu, skitter]

disclaimer that i am endlessly ephemeral and that i tend to think of things with associations and conditionals (naughty i know but it's how i do things) more than individual sorts for all except my strongest town and scumreads

[fireisredsir]

Fire, do you think with VP, Dats and Nero being scared of them is AI?

part of what made me think nero was town was him being scared of VP, so yes in that case. i think datisi is famously paranoid and probably would appear that way as either town or maf, so that specifically is probs not AI. if you mean is that AI for VP, i have no idea

[fireisredsir]

im back with more fun facts (still not very useful edition)

cause i noticed wu had only voted once this game, for Nero when he thought that he was serious about the dayvig, and then unvoted 10 minutes later when he realized he wasn't.

town 2073: 0 votes day 1 (got put on E-1)
maf 2011: 1 vote day 1 (got put on E-2)
town 1992: 2 votes day 1 (got limmed)
maf 1987: 0 votes day 1 (no pressure)

so he's kind of a serial non-voter as both maf and town in his previous games. the votes that did come were usually pretty late in the day

[fireisredsir]

on this site, yes

[fireisredsir]

Spoiler: @Fire, Nero & Scorpious:

You three should know what I'm asking here without me having to explain it any further because of the rules. You do remember what I once said about replacements, Yes? However I had more reason to it back then than I do right now because I knew the player preferences while I don't either replaced players here. They also played for a while before replacing out so it's not exactly the same.
My question: Does any of you have any solid background on either? Can anything be discerned from the replacements or should I think of them both as being absolutely NAI?[/spoiler]

nordom nobody knows, ari some people know but i don't. i would assume NAI tho

[fireisredsir]

not gonna talk too much about fua atm since the slot is not currently in the game, but if i were a vig and my kill didn't go through my first thought would be that someone in my poe got scared. is that a fair thing to think, yay or nay? would scum roleblock a vig kill that was likely going to hit town just to cause confusion and avoid confirming the vig?

anyway i thought it was kinda weird that fua didn't jump to that thought right away, or even consider it at all as far as i can tell. but then, their "oh there's a doctor or a roleblocker, wait no, doctor doesn't make sense" reads kinda pure immediate reaction thought process to me? like if they're scum they know already the kill isn't going through and have probably planned out what they're gonna say. the moment of confusion feels kinda towny to me, but maybe that's faked, idk

[fireisredsir]

not gonna talk too much about fua atm since the slot is not currently in the game, but if i were a vig and my kill didn't go through my first thought would be that someone in my poe got scared. is that a fair thing to think, yay or nay? would scum roleblock a vig kill that was likely going to hit town just to cause confusion and avoid confirming the vig?

Got scared? I don't know what that means.

For your second question, how would scum know who fua was going to target?

ok so my thought process is, if we assume fua is town for now, most likely scenario is that they got roleblocked. they made it pretty clear who they were sus of in 2063, 2070, and 2124, all near end of day. that list includes wu(dead), skitter, me, ari's slot. on a lower level, there's also yeet, tenebro, eyes, and scorp. now given that info my questions are:

1) would fua most likely shoot among that list? i don't see why they wouldn't
2) if that list is all town, would maf team still roleblock them? not sure on this one, that's why I'm asking the crowd
3) as vig, who got blocked, would you think that maf blocked you because someone in your list of targets was maf? also not sure on this, but i would lean yes

like me personally if im vig and i get blocked i come hard out the gates thinking this confirms that who i shot knew it was coming and blocked me and so they're even more scummy than before. that might be the wrong way to think (in this case it is cause im town lol) and maybe not everyone thinks that way but i just thought it was weird to not even see a glimmer of that in fua's posts at the start of today.

why that's relevant to her alignment is that maf who fakeclaimed vig is only really thinking in the dimension of if their claim is verifiable or not, they don't care about who they were aiming for, because they weren't ever going to actually shoot. town has a lot more to think about because they actually tried to shoot someone and failed. like that's a kinda strong visceral town thing, no? to think you're about to solo kill a scum and you're spam refreshing to see if you were right or not and then ahh it doesn't even go through? but fua didn't focus at all on thinking about who they shot, their thought process was all about whether their claim was verified or not. that response feels more scummy to me because i think it forgets what town should be feeling in that moment

[fireisredsir]

holy crap i thought i posted more in this game 22 posts wow i'm probably scum

eh probably not

[fireisredsir]

VP reactions here feel kinda scummy to me

[fireisredsir]

I don’t townread this slot and honestly I’m sort of running out of places I want to vote.

are too many of them your partners?

[fireisredsir]

I don’t townread this slot and honestly I’m sort of running out of places I want to vote.

are too many of them your partners?

Do you have a real question for me?

no i just wanted to see how you would respond (:

[fireisredsir]

i genuinely think that town overall is being towny here to the point where scum is running out of places to push, and i think a few people have expressed that sentiment lately and i expect at least one of them to be scum just being honest

[fireisredsir]

not sure how much playing of mafia since 2008 has helped him, like come on, I was a literal child back then

this made me realize that some people here have probs been playing mafia since before i was born and that is kinda terrifying

[fireisredsir]

i genuinely think that town overall is being towny here to the point where scum is running out of places to push, and i think a few people have expressed that sentiment lately and i expect at least one of them to be scum just being honest

Who else has expressed that sentiment and why are you singling me out?

tene in 2650. i already think he's scum. p sure someone else did but i forgot who and can't find it now. i asked you bc i do not townread VP in the cape exchange and thought that maybe you do for a reason

[fireisredsir]

Apologies for the big quotes, but I'm really interested in how the Datisi heat suddenly died off after a while. Like, there's obviously some confirmed town in here, but I always felt like the Datisi heat was pretty poorly constructed and didn't work. Increasingly I'm wondering if there's some solid logic here in the idea that some mafia themselves started to realise it was a rubbish wagon and directed their attentions elsewhere before it got them into more trouble.

experienced scum probably would know that a datisi lim day 1 in a game this large isn't likely to work. but tene probably wouldn't know that

VOTE: tenebro

[fireisredsir]

Tene wagon?

yes please

[fireisredsir]

hello ill be your VP of today, but instead of calling for wagons on wu and monkey who were both town, i will be calling for wagons on tene and VP who are both scum

[fireisredsir]

Not sold on VP.

im not either tbh but there's things that look scummy to me and i think it's a good wagon

[fireisredsir]

Not sold on VP.

im not either tbh but there's things that look scummy to me and i think it's a good wagon

I’d much prefer tene and Scorpio over VP.
VP’s play reminds me of the game I was recently with him. He was widely scumread but a PR. I think people perceive him as a viable target whatever his alignment. He could be scum but I trust HEM’s read of tene and Scorpio more.

hrmm, intereshting. i have not meta read VP yet maybe i should. i wouldn't have guessed that tho, if that's the case it makes me a little less interested. early on i had him read as strong poster relatively helpful townie, but some things made me start to not trust. if he often draws suspicion then... eh. could still be scum but im kinda less into it

monkey scumread tene tho? idr him talking about that in thread

[fireisredsir]

Hi i didn't read anything

hi are you our new fua

[fireisredsir]

So if I'm understanding correctly, either Fire is mafia with roleblocker, or Fua/Enchant is lying?

If so I'm leaning towards the latter here. I get Fire could be playing a very strong mafia game but they've come across townie as feck to me. And while I can see a vig having a genius call and catching a good player out, Fua's game was a bit all over the place...a Fire kill just seems so baffling from that POV.

if they are town then they probably just had a read and knew enough people townread me that i wasn't likely to get elimmed so they took a chance with a potential high payoff. I can see it making sense, they'd been saying i looked scummy to them most of the day.

but as others said, they did not say for sure who the kill would be on, they just had a list. and maf could have roleblocked regardless. i think there is some chance they're lying but those aren't the only two options at all

[fireisredsir]

Me is Me.

baba is you.

also ok will do math give me a few mins to boot my shitty laptop up

fun game

if you want you can give a quick answer to questions i posed in 2695 but i don't think it's something that really needs to be solved right away

[fireisredsir]

ok ty good to know. still think their reaction was not how i would think town would react

[fireisredsir]

is april ludgate playing

[fireisredsir]

wu flipping town is not a counterpoint there, scorp

[fireisredsir]

this feels like scorp town to me but ive been fooled before. i read 2257 and in that one he did basically nothing as town including accusing masons of being scum since they were suspecting him and he wasn't reading the thread. it's really bad townplay but i think it is probs townplay

[fireisredsir]

I really think we should elim tenebro, like really really

agreed

[fireisredsir]

Have a little courage and go after your friends.

expand on this

[fireisredsir]

It is easier to push nobodies than established players, and many of you clearly know each other. That is my latest theory for why we are seeing a push as lame as the one against Scorp, and said push persisting in spite of his townie reaction.

by expand i meant name names

[fireisredsir]

It is easier to push nobodies than established players, and many of you clearly know each other. That is my latest theory for why we are seeing a push as lame as the one against Scorp, and said push persisting in spite of his townie reaction.

by expand i meant name names

It is a general admonition. I am sure this is not the answer you are looking for. Math I suppose is one person who could stand to be more courageous, since I know his uninteresting pushes are not due to being scum.

it is not the answer i am looking for because your post was a response to deas. so i would like to hear who specifically are the friends of deas that you think he should be voting. i want names. if you're town you had someone in mind when you said that.

otherwise it's just hollow and vaguely threatening

[fireisredsir]

Well i am replace of Fua.

Deets you should know:

Math is confirmed Mason.

There is a hood of: Nero, skitter, Cap90, VP.

There's a lot of useless posting in this game (maybe even some from me in the last few pages while I was catching up, sorry all!)

april here is the replacement info post. also VP is claimed ascetic, enchant (fua) is claimed vig who tried to shoot me last night and nothing happened

[fireisredsir]

Oh, I didn’t realise Tene was talking about my friends. That’s interesting

actually i misread the context. still would like names but it looks like it was aimed at math

[fireisredsir]

like how hard is it to say who you mean when you say "vote for your friends"? what friends? who would you like him to vote? it doesn't really matter who you were talking to

[fireisredsir]

It was a general admonition to the whole game. Prompted by Math's post maybe. You do not like my answer. Okay. Get me killed or die mad about it. Next.

I have done enough defending and explaining. Whether this is a scum plot to keep me occupied so they can call me defensive or townies being wrong, I don't much care. At this point, I am declaring that others' incorrect reads on me and my actions are their problem, not mine. Develop whatever opinion you like.

i don't like your answer because you didn't give me an answer. how can you make that post and not have someone in mind when you say it? it doesn't make sense. it's not even a hard question so im just confused. i just wanted to know who specifically you think people (math, deas, whoever) should be looking at that they are currently not looking at due not having the "courage" to go after their friends. which friends? i really just want to understand your thought process, i know maybe you don't want to deal with me because i think you're scum, but it's not a trap or a gotcha i just want to understand what you're thinking to see if it comes from a townie mindset

[fireisredsir]

he feels kinda towny to me, in the way that he always feels scummy but this feels more like the towny kind of scummy

[fireisredsir]

the last 3 pages he has at least been making some sort of effort which he wasn't before

[fireisredsir]

116, 246, 1002, 1486, 1661, 2650, 2962, 2994 all just reek to me of self-conscious mafia awkwardly trying to fit in and appear engaged and towny. he also has pretty consistently joined opportunistic wagons and gone with the flow of things, appearing confident "fua is scum, vote there now!" when convenient and unsure "i don't know who to push" when convenient, sometimes right after each other.

[fireisredsir]

a few posts have actually yes, but not as much