Large Normal 241: Random Pictures and Other Stuff | Endgame

[Ausuka]

And I actually am reading it as town because I think it would feel pretty awkward saying that as scum. I think scum would feel like they are PROTESTING too much.

that was me and i did indeed feel like he's protesting too much

maybe i'm just like too surface level, but i don't really think the read makes much sense from a genuine mindset because scum flake out all the time

pedit: if i had to guess he's probably eating humans

[Ausuka]

And I actually am reading it as town because I think it would feel pretty awkward saying that as scum. I think scum would feel like they are PROTESTING too much.

that was me and i did indeed feel like he's protesting too much

maybe i'm just like too surface level, but i don't really think the read makes much sense from a genuine mindset because scum flake out all the time

pedit: if i had to guess he's probably eating humans

can u vote gamma

no

[Ausuka]

i could vote gamma

but i won't because i don't scumread her

[Ausuka]

whats in it for me...

[Ausuka]

you seem unusually confident, marci

[Ausuka]

gamma does that, like, all the time though

[Ausuka]

viewtopic.php?p=13433572#p13433572

this is the first thing that comes to mind from a game we played together and were both town

[Ausuka]

maybe i don't understand what you mean then? shrug. i just know i often feel like gamma is reacting to something somewhat disproportionately from what i'd expect

[Ausuka]

I agree that this sort of emotional stuff that feels overreacty isn't scum indicative for Gamma at all. I don't have a massive amount of experience with scum her, but one game I saw (schadd's open) had her... well, not massively different in emotionality, but much more flat.

I think CMM is a better wagon

[Ausuka]

What's the objective of the game here, what's town's wincon? Does joining a game to shitpost through strike you as a town thing to do? I will say thank you for clarifying the question. I'll give you this, it looks like Marci is actually engaging with the game now in a meaningful way. I'm sticking to my guns here, the posting just looks like "I'm here too" which in a large game especially, where there are a lot of people to focus on, is convenient when the focus isn't on you. So yeah I think legit read. Idk if I'm articulating this well.

I mean given that the last game I played with marci when she was town she called me a coward and a snake for not voting her in elo, and generally played very much like this... yeah

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but the sense I get is that this is pretty clearly a playstyle thing for Marci. I guess we're just going around in circles, but it just seems hard to believe you think shitposting is AI for her.

[Ausuka]

my feelings on ausuka's scumgame come mostly from the fact that they've often said they don't like playing scum and aren't good at it (iirc? or just that they have a tell?) i'm not personally familiar, so grain of salt, etc

can't believe dats said he isn't personally familiar with me

(i don't like playing scum and remember being bad at it, but i haven't rolled scum for 3 years, so i can't confidently self meta myself here)

[Ausuka]

no this must be a PERSONAL ATTACK against ME specifically

[Ausuka]

omg 2 day holiday...

pedit: i dont think town would like actually self hammer like that but i guess we'll see

[Ausuka]

omg 2 day holiday...

pedit: i dont think town would like actually self hammer like that but i guess we'll see

I mean clearly we have disagreed in this game about things town would do

shrug, there's not exactly much point in debating this with you now

[Ausuka]

vig baltar

[Ausuka]

Hi um I'm tired so I'm not going to do anything useful sorry

1) baltar owned

2) I voted Marci because I was pissed basically and really did not feel like engaging in that moment

3) I feel like you've brought this up multiple times and no one has explained this but @TSQ dannflor being a deepwolf is just a meme. The real reason people called him scum is because his predecessor did nothing and his posts were unimpressive

[Ausuka]

The first thing that comes to mind was he tried to explain his predecessor basically flaking out was super towny Actually

Just in general it felt super meh tho

[Ausuka]

vig baltar

[Ausuka]

vig baltar

Dann is this a vig soft

if you're going to soft vig be explicit so real vig knows to shoot you

thanks

no not at all that was just me seeing that post and being like huh i wonder what that means for ausuka's alignment

well what does it mean then?

[Ausuka]

groupscum:

datisi, vpb, fireisredsir, conmanmick

mafia traitor:

firebringer

would dats fearkill ari? probably? i should look into his interactions with vpb but i remember thinking they could easily be distancing at least early in the day

[Ausuka]

Dann I find it kind of weird that you felt like you were shading me a bit and now I'm your strongest townread?

(sorry, it's not personal or anything and you don't have to answer right now if you don't feel like it! But scum can get demotivated too and like... I can't just not suspect you)

[Ausuka]

Baltar gimme your Datisi read b4 he wakes up

Scum fuck obv. Would D1 yeet with no remorse.

Is it dumb to read this as cheeky partners? Because I do

did you roll scum with Datisi -.-

[Ausuka]

firebringer and xofelf trading compliments on page 9 maybe not s/s?

Kind of like this thought. Can you tell me more why you think that's unlikely from them specifically?

There's no way it's just vpb/s_s/xof right

This feels like a wildly out-of-nowhere take?? Like even if you think Ausuka's wrong I'm not sure why it's so unbelievable that her wrong read would be based on vibes

Mostly because Nero hadn't done anything out of normal range there, fmpov, so I wanted to press a little bit and see if she had any deeper reasoning for making a town read there. She did not.

I think pushing on flimsy reads early on in a game can be a fruitful way to catch scum before they find their footing.

And you think town don't have these 'flimsy' reads in the early game or

Like if that's the logic we're going on you are looking very very bad right now

Sure, town can be flimsy.

But they probably have a complete thought process at least. I still don't understand your Nero town ping.

My instinct is that VPB would be less likely to press me so hard on having a Nero townping if Nero is scum here?? And like, I was townreading him anyway, so...

ari can maybe be town if she saw something that i also saw. ok no point in being vague when i didn't out too many reads, if she noticed that baltar not voting me is weird, then yeah +town

Red flag.

You think I'm obligated to vote you as my rvs?

i feel like the other reasons so far to suspect datisi feel a bit... better than this

why is this a red flag? datisi feeling entitled to an rvs vote?

I liked this at the time because it felt like a genuine thing to think when reading the thread and was something I agreed with. VPB flipping red reinforces this read. Scum often do distance early but like... idk I don't feel like ydrasse was doing that??

VPB is your scamper vote serious

eh, I wouldn't say it was super serious. I liked GuiltyLion's approach and felt like applying minor pressure. But I would put scamper in the null pile if I'm being intellectually honest.

this is maybe +scum for scamper

I'm not sure I'm scum reading marci. Seems like alot of meta complaints mostly? Someone correct me if that's not right

This looks like marci is town because I really do not get the feeling VPB cares about her at all when reading this post.

Holy shit there are people in this game who haven't posted

This makes it feel like there are scum in the lurkers because it seems so weird to me? Like, I don't buy that he genuinely just does not realise there are lurkers in this game. Maybe he's just trying to look like he's not Thinking Strategically And Therefore Town but maybe he wants to create distance from lurky partners because for a second my reaction
was 'oh maybe his partners are active players'

VOTE: firebringer

VPB starts the FB wagon. While he could be distancing here, I don't think it's likely? Mostly because rather than like being theatrical, VPB doesn't really draw attention to the vote and doesn't even explain his scumread on FB until Datisi asks him to. So like, if he's distancing he's doing it in quite an underwhelming way considering he would hypothetically have started the wagon in this scenario.

Datisi and VPB both voting FB at the same time is maybe worth noting but not sure if that's AI for experienced scum players who know that's not really risky

VPB has a phase where he asks a bunch of questions (to GL, DV, Dunnstral slot who is Frog now, FB, scamper, skitter slot who is obscure now) which don't really appear to have much followup or, anything actually. I feel like a couple of these people should be partnered with VPB? Because it seems like a super easy way to make interactions with partners without having to like, actually do anything.

what should he have conviction on atp?

Anything? We are 42 pages in here. Time to start moving the game in a semi serious direction.

is there anything specific you expected to see from Town!FB that you're not seeing or is this just a generalized "he has no takes" thing?

I didn't say FB has no takes, though they are few and far between. It's more of the fact their takes don't go anywhere. I don't have a strong FB meta, but I don't take anyone this game as a complete slouch.

I get the working a lot thing. I have put in 8 hours Sunday, 14 Monday, and 12 yesterday at work. It sucks and makes it hard to stay up on everything in a mafia game or pursue threads as deeply as you may like. That being said, I do still think it's possible to semi-read along and have some kind of viewpoint.

You think this is typical town!FB behavior?

This felt like scum making an easy push earlier. it still does now and I don't feel like this is partnered with S_S.

@vpb again i dont really know if his vote on me is indicative of 'lack of viewpoint/conviction'
(Or at least, is unusual or scum-indicative for him ...)

It's more than the vote on you. That was just an example. There doesn't seem to be much conviction from FB on anything.

do you have conviction on anything right now

Wtf are you talking about? I'm voting and pursuing plenty of threads. You think I have no conviction, or you just pointlessly shading?

I think this interaction feels really fake.

I think when you're scum with datisi, it's easier to just say townbin early and not risk his wrath.

Ok so
I had the thought that this was a freudian slip and he's saying "you're scum with datisi" because he is in fact scum with datisi
Upon thinking about this further I think it's a massive stretch but I'm leaving it in the post because at the very least I think it's funny.

VPB where are you on this game

What an incredibly vague question.

I am voting FB. You should too or push a more serious alternative.

There's a lot of faffing going on this game and I'm kinda bored

I still don't think scum bussing act like this, especially talking about how bored he is which I think just feels more blunt than I'd expect a bus to be.

VP, when did you start thinkng that I was town?

Part of it is cumulative vibes from you being an asshat, which is consistent with my town experience with you obv. (Though certainly fakeable)

For example, your fight with ari seemed absolutely unnecessary.

I also remember feeling better about you when you said something about HEM's list being kind of wishy washy, because that was my same gut reaction when I read it.

If this is a scum/scum interaction I will be shocked

Do you really think that makes sense??

Do you think it makes sense to say 'you vote first and I'll join you'?

Like if your whole deal is getting numerous votes on a wagon, then the logical play is to vote first and directly ask people to join. It's backwards to be like " well let's count the votes first to make sure we have enough before we do this for real 48 hours into D1".

You're acting like I'm a dumb shit here, but you're not making any sense about how you're pursuing wagons. If you scum read me, then vote and stop being a coward about it.

Make a case even. But don't tell me it really makes sense to go to someone you maybe scum read and then seek a coalition of 2 before voting.

Pedit - you're right. I'm so dumb. Good point.

Don't think this is either

FB, what do you think of ari's meta defense of you?

wut?
Pretty sure Ari is doing to opposite of defending FB

VP Balter

, you gonna explain what made you think this?

Ari is definitely soft defending FB by questioning my vote there. How would you describe it?

Questioning a vote is not defending.

Did you read ari's post? It was definitely a defense.

More importantly, what is the point of this semantics argument though?

I think this genuinely reads as fed up of the interaction and is probably +town for Gamma because I think a scum distancing thing is more likely to be interesting for Baltar

I probably didn't have better reads. I would have just said that.

can u give me some reads so i can copy them

FB scum. Scamper maybe scum (but I should actually read this elephant case). Ausuka maybe scum. Probably one in the super lurk squad or a deep wolf, you can pick your favorite there.

Game solve, lock it in.

Hmm I don't think he really ever talks about scamper before this in constrast to both me and FB. When asked about it he posts 1314 which is a longwinded way to say "I have no good vibes from you" - I mean who actually talks about how interesting people are instead of the content of their read? This could just be a 'Baltar wolf doing wolf things' read I guess but scamper is not a top tier townread for me anymore

I don't want to quote VPB's dannflor wall to keep this post less wally, but it's 2144. I'm not fond of VPB kinda waffling on Dann but making sure to tack some distancing on near the end, and then later saying he's against the Dann wagon and 'super not feeling it.'

I don't think the interaction with GL feels partnered. Like Ari said it feels like the Joker vs Batman in that GL feels right and makes sense and VPB is just trying to find any angle to attack him from?

Whew that was long. Finally I'm going to look at his Datisi interactions more holistically. I think the fact VPB and Datisi had their fallout

after

Aristeia called them out as potentially partners, Aristeia still calling them partners towards the end of the day, Aristeia dying and Datisi talking about 'oh i would never interact with vpb like that as scum' even though Aristeia is the person who I know reads Datisi best is super scummy imo. I think his push on Datisi just totally fizzles out in a way I don't like - he thinks scamper is scum over Datisi later despite like never really actually pushing scamper. None of it feels natural to me.

Looking at the other side of things - I think 1939 has a read on VPB which is like... Okay, I guess it COULD come from town datisi, but pivoting into a 'too scummy to be scum' read on vp baltar is SO convenient. Scum had no idea VPB was going to die, so I could see Datisi wanting to be easily able to take VPB out of his limelight and focus on slots like CMM and town in Relly/Dann/Gamma all of which would be fairly easy people for Dats to eliminate since he's charismatic and all of them were pretty common pushes yesterday iirc.

In conclusion, I have decided to die on this hill and we're doing this



VOTE: Datisi

[Ausuka]

stop trying to make scumtisi happen

it's not going to happen

Never

[Ausuka]

rudetisi

[Ausuka]

Wdym by the meme

Pedit: because I was townreading scamper before and I was scumreading datisi before so if both have bad associatives I would rather vote datisi

[Ausuka]

Marci do u think datisi is town?

[Ausuka]

so are you just gonna go down the same trajectory as you were yesterday phase?

Yeah? I was right about Baltar so why shouldn't I

[Ausuka]

Like obviously my reads aren't gonna be perfect but the idea I need to pivot from yesterday for some reason feels super weird to me.

I will vote who I think is scum. That can be the same people as yesterday or totally different. If you think I'm wrong, telling me to change my reads or that they're bad or whatever isn't going to convince me.

[Ausuka]

because soft sussing a partner and then spinning onto a townread without either been given a reason to do so by the partner, or the gamestate itself forcing me into doing that is very stupid and i don't do that

I agree that scumtisi does not do stupid things generally. I think that without hindsight, knowing scum you did not know Baltar was going to die, pivoting away from your Baltar read after generating distance with him would not be considered stupid at all. Baltar probably doesn't live to endgame, but I think pivoting away from him could help by letting him push through miseliminations early, and allowing him to die in a way you control later on.

I also think the whole scumtisi wouldn't do this is something I have seen you do as scum multiple times.

[Ausuka]

Hasn't datisi been the third top poster despite being extremely busy for a portion of the game? I really do not feel like he has been detached at all. I feel he engaged in a lot of antics with VPB and this does feel congruent with what I'd expect if they were scum together.

[Ausuka]

I have not felt like he's a non factor in the game at all, shrug

[Ausuka]

I think GL pointing out the vig stuff felt fairly towny

Iirc it's unusual for scum partners to co ordinate too hard? I admit it's possible since dats and vpb but I think it would just be weird to plan something like that in advance and you risk coming off less genuine not more

[Ausuka]

I feel like vpb being so willing to call relly extremely town is +town for relly

I think scum is more hesitant to chainsaw so blatantly?

[Ausuka]

I think I liked tsq so far as well but I should go back through d2 now I'm properly awake

[Ausuka]

ok

[Ausuka]

This is so fucking stupid tbh.

Some of you have to be town.

What is this trying to say

[Ausuka]

I agree that it looked bad although arguably I have big red tinted "datisi is scum" goggles on

[Ausuka]

obscure do you have any ideas for Baltar's Buddies

[Ausuka]

also is there anyway to get notifications for new posts?

you can click 'subscribe topic' and get email notifications

obscure do you have any ideas for Baltar's Buddies

no, maybe i'll try to ISO him and figure that out.

i do remember when i was reading through, that the person made 0 impact on me one way or another, so i wonder if "low impact = mafia" is a viable tell.

i don't think baltar had zero impact? did he really leave no impression on you at all?

[Ausuka]

ok so status replaced elephant. i kind of think they're not paired with VP. just because VP seems to put an emphasis on saying votes on elephant are bad, and i don't think mafia would so obviously try to pair themselves to a partner: it seems more likely they're trying to get a villager on their side.

I agree with this take tbh and like it, VP really felt like white knighting Relly to me

Btw Dats why was my case on you towny?

[Ausuka]

honestly i feel like i should have died last night and the fact im still alive makes me think i have townread scum

I think this take is pretty wild but maybe town indicative???

[Ausuka]

ok so status replaced elephant. i kind of think they're not paired with VP. just because VP seems to put an emphasis on saying votes on elephant are bad, and i don't think mafia would so obviously try to pair themselves to a partner: it seems more likely they're trying to get a villager on their side.

I agree with this take tbh and like it, VP really felt like white knighting Relly to me

Btw Dats why was my case on you towny?

i think if baltar were actually white knighting relly, he wouldn't have the reaction he did when he was responding to my triangle and been like "huh idk. i need to iso him. but i thought his points were kinda good. oh no idk "

i can usually sense when someone is being disingenuous when making a case on me. i can feel when they're stretching or purposefully taking things out of context to push me. i didn't get that vibe from your case, it felt like the things you were saying are simply true. and it doesn't feel like you were trying to artificially pump up your confidence or tone or anything. it just feels... chill. idk.

I don't really understand why that's incongruent with vpb whiteknighting Relly tbh? My impression is that scum are often fond of trying to sound uninformed as much as they can and he's still like defending Relly there?

I guess I'm mostly wondering about your thoughts on the Ari point. Given you're making the argument you never behave like this as scum with VPB, I'm wondering why she would put you both as part of the scumteam and seemed to hold the belief you guys were scum together since my impression is she knows and reads you very well. I mean, you might just have nothing to say about it and I guess that's fine?? But if you do I'd like to know

[Ausuka]

ok so status replaced elephant. i kind of think they're not paired with VP. just because VP seems to put an emphasis on saying votes on elephant are bad, and i don't think mafia would so obviously try to pair themselves to a partner: it seems more likely they're trying to get a villager on their side.

I agree with this take tbh and like it, VP really felt like white knighting Relly to me

Btw Dats why was my case on you towny?

honestly i feel like i should have died last night and the fact im still alive makes me think i have townread scum

I think this take is pretty wild but maybe town indicative???

i think your analysis of baltars interactions is completely backwards, i dont think baltar makes sense as scum with datisi, i only looked at one of baltars scum games but his play trended a lot more toward defending his partners in that one, so going in with the expectation that "baltar fosed this person so they were distancing" is the wrong way to go about things

I strongly disagree with your characterisation of my thoughts as "baltar fosed this person so they were distancing" - I believe I have talked about my issues with Datisi, I am not assuming he is scum just because VPB pushed him.

[Ausuka]

and one of them (nero) has garbage reasoning like "relly white knighted an unflipped slot and that was bad????"

I get that you aren't going to agree that you are scum but your slot said that Skitter was town for an event that never even happened in this game. Only one person said anything about it and it got swept under the rug b/c you guys were too busy mislimming conman to care.

I mean making a mistake like that doesn't really seem scum motivated so why would it not be swept under the rug

[Ausuka]

its a mistake that relly goes "oh hey skitter, u r town b/c ppl are scum reading you for your intro." but no one was scum reading her for her intro?

I mean, yes, that seems like the textbook definition of a mistake?

[Ausuka]

and i think i know my own scumplay better than she does.

I mean I can't exactly trust your read on yourself

[Ausuka]

I think it's somewhat reasonable for scum VP/dann to make the play he did and not clearing but I accept that it's+town for dannflor because Occam's razor is that VP actually didn't care about dannflor (not sure if this outweighs the super super weird fliparound on dann but like whatever I can leave him for now I guessss)

Nero I went back to check the context to make sure I'm right and I still think I am because
1) human memory kind of sucks - neither you or Datisi actually pushed skitter for it really but you both made, uh, negative noises about it and I think it's possible for Relly to just remember that as scumreading even though that explanation loses a lot of the nuance.
2) You didn't actually say he's wrong afaik - you asked him about it and he was like "yeah I'm pretty sure people scumread her at some point"
3) I really don't see the reason scum is more likely to make this mistake than town is

MAYBE I put too much effort into this argument but like whatever I'm never getting that time back

[Ausuka]

i dont have time to type reads really right now, but !! maybe after work but dont be hopeful!!
i was xonfused why u werent choosed for nk though bestie!! werent u hella townread!!

Ok I am slightly weirded out by both hem and Marci pushing the hem nk point because I did not pick up on this, like, at all and I understand hem might have a weird perspective about himself but idk why Marci would repeat it??

[Ausuka]

Wolfdrasse who is the most likely scum in your poe

[Ausuka]

Eh, fuck it VOTE: thestatusquo

Game isn't going anywhere until you flip me so might as well just do it. It's distracting the game too much.

I'll continue to be here and post thoughts.

Why dude we've been in this day for like 10 minutes

[Ausuka]

I mean no one has engaged with my push on Datisi apart from Datisi and scamper who grossly mischaracterised it to discredit me. Maybe I should self vote as well

I guess I'll go back and read about the Gamma stuff but I was townleaning him, I scumread him last game for not taking strong stances and he was town and I don't think she's ever pinged me this game

[Ausuka]

it's ok, if i'm scum i'll take them down myself >.>

Datisi has been on a Propaganda campaign trying to convince people he hates bussing.

I will never believe it

[Ausuka]

ausuka, is there like anything that i can do for you to kick you out of this tunnel so that we can be bffs again and kill some scum together

Change your avatar to an actually good character?

(My last post wasn't intended to reveal the scumtisi mastermind bussing plan or anything I was just trying to be jovial. I don't think I can give you a simple question that can easily determine your alignment though! I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here?)

[Ausuka]

:shrug: I mean I don't really think the approach of I tell you what I townread and you do it so you must be town really makes much sense??? Like, you are three times as charismatic as me and people aren't paying attention to my case, I do not think you have much to worry about and if you are town I might see it with time, who knows. If you're not, you're probably going to nightkill me and win the game I guess? Idk.

Pedit: wow Nero you really just do not read my posts huh

[Ausuka]

I mean Dats you've said yourself you don't think my case on you is terrible and you can see how town could think the way I do

Given that I don't understand why you would expect me to suddenly get to townreading you? Like what's your angle here

I don't even know if it's that scummy but it's definitely, uh, something

[Ausuka]

How does anyone in this game not know what my Datisi read is????

[Ausuka]

Is it this avatar

I think it's really pretty and I like it

Maybe I need something more intimidating

[Ausuka]

i don't *expect* it, i just wanna see if there's anything i can do because i really think you're town and you're wasting your time.

ok, let's try something else. who else do you scumread/would consider voting?

pedit: nero for the love of fuck, go read that ausuka post with a funny image and a vote on me

I think you're the only person I scumread outright? If there was anyone else I wanted to push I would've done it, and also probably would've given it more attention if they're a player I can actually eliminate on day 2

But there's a pool of people I want to look more at which is
{Firs, Marci, Ydrasse, scamper, dannflor, Xofelf}

In which I'd be more receptive to listening to arguments about them right now.

Pedit: I mean pushing datisi is the only thing I've done all day and I did it a lot yesterday too, I thought I was quite annoying about it but apparently I need to be more annoying

[Ausuka]

I don't recall shading you. My town read on you is relatively recent though.

The shading thing was like "not sure what to make of this Ausuka post" which felt like testing the waters but I concede that's debatable

Can you explain your trajectory on me then

[Ausuka]

Oh ok I was expecting a scummy response but that's a good post Actually

[Ausuka]

i have over 200 posts. ausuka dropped a huge scumcase on me at the start of today. i really struggle to believe that you have zero opinion on literally all of that.

I mean

I'm not sure I'm townreading Marci anymore but also like...

It's Marci

I guess I would like her to give some more depth to her reads too but like ehhh I don't exactly expect her to play standardly as town

[Ausuka]

Marci I would like you to talk about why you thought HEM would be nightkilled because I find that interaction super super weird

[Ausuka]

Datisi it kind of feels like you're only going after surface level things this game. Do you think that's a fair description of your suspicions? (I think its less true about some of the stuff you've called town)

With this and the Marci posting I continue to enjoy tsq slot

I'm not sure I fully agree to be clear - I don't think datisi's push here is that surface level and have mixed feelings about Marci - but I initially did have thoughts similar to his and idk I just like the vibes of his posts

[Ausuka]

ok but why do you think hem is exclusively 'hella townie' to the point where you thought he would be nightkilled. I think there were other townier players in the game and i think this could possibly have been a scum PT talking point

[Ausuka]

My idea is that while hem was not widely suspected there were several people more townread than him. If you think he's a possible nightkill, sure I can believe that. The fact you went as far as saying it's weird he didn't die is super strange to me. I'm pretty sure I was more widely townread, or scamper, or even Nero or Ydrasse

[Ausuka]

I'm asking because I think it's suspicious that both of you happened to bring it up when it's totally contrary to what seems like common sense shared by most other people. It makes me feel like there is something else going on there.

[Ausuka]

clearly its a mistake. Scum Marci wouldn't lie about a thing like that.

Oh no I agree! I just think this mistake is indicative of something she might have picked up in the scum PT is all

[Ausuka]

Also self meta is worst meta and you can both fight me

[Ausuka]

(I don't know what super sheep is but I'm going to imagine it's a wooloo)

[Ausuka]

ok great I'll just pencil you in as "needs to die before endgame" since we're doing this again

[Ausuka]

i dont have time to type reads really right now, but !! maybe after work but dont be hopeful!!
i was xonfused why u werent choosed for nk though bestie!! werent u hella townread!!

Ok I am slightly weirded out by both hem and Marci pushing the hem nk point because I did not pick up on this, like, at all and I understand hem might have a weird perspective about himself but idk why Marci would repeat it??

also thought this was weird

well apparently I wasn't the only one this total bs occured to, so maybe you should explain why you actually thought hem was this beacon of towniness and actually engage with me instead of refusing to engage when I have any questions or suspicions about you and insulting me every single game

[Ausuka]

Dv as someone who has never played with Xofelf can you talk about your xofelf meta

[Ausuka]

I mean I've always found relly/tsq slot to be genuine but I agree his read progression on you felt real

[Ausuka]

i mean tsq i think you are correct but am not sure how important this is honestly because i think frog's idea is something someone could genuinely believe

tbh not sure what I think of frog in general? he is just sort of There. if he's a major suspect people i could go back and have another look. i remember vaguely liking his tone/confidence, for whatever that's worth

[Ausuka]

For what it's worth I remember looking into Frog meta at some point and saw that and actually thought it was more similar to this game than I was expecting? At least, he had a high level of activity and engagement, which is different to a completed game where he was scum (albeit on an alt) in a game I modded and was kind of lurky

I will take another look at that (large 238 i think)

[Ausuka]

yeah I didn't look too closely at the game because meta is hard and I was spending more time thinking about other slots

[Ausuka]

Whew that was long. Finally I'm going to look at his Datisi interactions more holistically. I think the fact VPB and Datisi had their fallout after Aristeia called them out as potentially partners, Aristeia still calling them partners towards the end of the day, Aristeia dying and Datisi talking about 'oh i would never interact with vpb like that as scum' even though Aristeia is the person who I know reads Datisi best is super scummy imo. I think his push on Datisi just totally fizzles out in a way I don't like - he thinks scamper is scum over Datisi later despite like never really actually pushing scamper. None of it feels natural to me.

Looking at the other side of things - I think 1939 has a read on VPB which is like... Okay, I guess it COULD come from town datisi, but pivoting into a 'too scummy to be scum' read on vp baltar is SO convenient. Scum had no idea VPB was going to die, so I could see Datisi wanting to be easily able to take VPB out of his limelight and focus on slots like CMM and town in Relly/Dann/Gamma all of which would be fairly easy people for Dats to eliminate since he's charismatic and all of them were pretty common pushes yesterday iirc.

the whole post I quoted this from is some interesting stuff

I think there's definitely a world where Datisi/VPB are aligned and behaved exactly as you called out, but I am tempted to not put so much stock into the Ari NK just yet. I think Ari is probably a scary player to most people in the PL in general and usually a high priority kill - while also not currently so townread as to be protected - just feels like a kill that would benefit most teams, Datisi or no Datisi.

The second paragraph here - my issue is I can definitely imagine town!Datisi having this reaction/engagement with scum!VPB. I was having similar D1 thoughts of "he feels so scummy to me, but I just played with scum!him and wasn't as suspicious of him there, maybe it's just his personality" so I can empathize a lot with 1939 and 2869. I actually think what you're calling out about Scamper interactions feels a lot worse than Datisi interactions. Like I happened to reread my 1316 a few min ago for some reason while I was backtracking some of these referenced posts and it struck me how much scamper was assuming malicious intent on Relly's part when writing that case and pushing that scumread.

I'm also not sure I agree with your take that VPB/FB come off unaligned from VPB pushing FB given that VPB eventually evolved away from pushing that, coinciding with me pushing FB a lot of D1

Hi - I agree that Ari is scary (<3) but I think she was playing kinda lurky and a lot of people were sus of her? At least, when I was defending her it didn't feel like that was the predominant take. So I was a bit surprised by her death, and specifically I think she has knowledge of Datisi's meta that no one else does - so I do think it's scum indicative that after she dies Datisi starts talking about how he's never scum with VPB on self meta even though she clearly didn't agree with that analysis. I'm not just considering Ari's reads because she died, I would listen to her on Datisi anyway because last game I played with those two she caught him and I didn't listen and townread him for doing good player things and he ended up carrying the game for scum.

I think the stuff I talked about is scum indicative for scamper, obviously, but I do think the weirdness around Datisi feels more sinister and less likely to just be VPB doing scummy stuff if that makes sense. Like, if he's scum with Datisi and is trying to quietly drop that push, he might think he needs to pivot to something new and just basically picked scamper as someone he thought he could justify a push on.

I think VPB's push on FB slot looked serious and I didn't really get distancing vibes from it. I guess I could look more into S_S slot (I will do this with frog like I promised tonight hopefully!) but rn like, one of the things I felt with VPB is that his push on FB felt kinda easy and off and I feel like that was probably a scum push on town?

[Ausuka]

I think I liked DV's posting, for whatever it's worth. In particular the part about Xofelf felt like weird and messy but in a way I don't think scum thinks to fake.

[Ausuka]

Marci is obviously laughing at the idea her bff fire is even capable of having a red role PM

[Ausuka]

So I was a bit surprised by her death, and specifically I think she has knowledge of Datisi's meta that no one else does - so I do think it's scum indicative that after she dies Datisi starts talking about how he's never scum with VPB on self meta even though she clearly didn't agree with that analysis.

I'm not sure I follow this - how are you inferring that Ari didn't agree with that analysis when it was given after Ari died? Like I get Ari had VPB/Datisi both scum, but this feels a little unfair to then say Ari wouldn't necessarily agree with what Datisi says in his defense

I don't really understand how it's unfair? I think Ari has lots of knowledge about Datisi's meta. I think if she didn't think they could be partners, she wouldn't have put them as part of the same scumteam.

[Ausuka]

I mean Datisi's posting on why he can't be a buddy to VPB is basically just

"we are friends and I would like us to be scum together, if we were scum together I would be more active."

I think given that datisi was very busy for part of the game and is still one of the top posters, and he specifically messed around a lot with Baltar, his play here is engaged and meets that description. I also think Aristeia knows Datisi and VP Baltar well enough to know that they're friends and account for that in her read.

I'm not saying Ari is infallible or a god or whatever. I'm saying specifically on Datisi I have reasons to think she is trustworthy and when she dies on night 1 and datisi comes out with self meta opposite to what she said, of course I'm going to be suspicious of that. I don't think that's unfair at all.

[Ausuka]

I mean technically that is an assumption sure, but I think it's reasonable to say that Ari knows those two and accounted for their relationship in her read. Part of my viewpoint is that precisely because she is dead she cannot contradict anything Dats is saying here and it seems like his charisma is capable of winning over pretty much anyone else. It feels like a convenient situation for Datisi to be in.

I did gloss over that, mostly because I'm not sure what to say except I don't find it convincing? Like, I don't think there's that much reason to believe Baltar wouldn't actually make a non-firm read on Datisi as partners and I have seen scumtisi use the "scumtisi wouldn't do this" defense mutliple times.

[Ausuka]

I mean Datisi's posting on why he can't be a buddy to VPB is basically just

"we are friends and I would like us to be scum together, if we were scum together I would be more active."

I think given that datisi was very busy for part of the game and is still one of the top posters, and he specifically messed around a lot with Baltar, his play here is engaged and meets that description. I also think Aristeia knows Datisi and VP Baltar well enough to know that they're friends and account for that in her read.

I'm not saying Ari is infallible or a god or whatever. I'm saying specifically on Datisi I have reasons to think she is trustworthy and when she dies on night 1 and datisi comes out with self meta opposite to what she said, of course I'm going to be suspicious of that. I don't think that's unfair at all.

i'm going to step in here and tell u that u are wrong on datisi. i am incredibly confident he is town. i do not think u are scum and if u are town it is more productive for u to be able to focus ur time elsewhere rather than being tunneled on an incorrect answer

I wouldn't say I'm tunneled? I am aware there is a very good chance Datisi is town. I think
1) nobody else is really going to give Datisi any scrutiny if I don't do it
2) I have in fact been thinking about other slots in the game and there isn't any one in particular that stands out as a good push to me right now.

I have been giving arguments for why Datisi is suspicious. Last time you talked to me you mischaracterised my arguments as saying Datisi is scum because VPB pushed him which obviously is not the case. I'm open to dropping this but I don't know why you'd expect "datisi is town" to convince me?

[Ausuka]

suka, even if Dats was scum there are still at least 2 more. Tell me who they are pls.

I mean the whole point of what I'm saying is - I don't know - like if I had people I wanted to push I'd do it! I'm not only pushing Datisi because I'm super confident he's scum or something, I have nowhere else I want to push. Do you think I'm pushing the most charismatic player in the game because I think it's fun or easy?

[Ausuka]

UNVOTE:

whatever I'm stupid or something you guys have fun without me

[Ausuka]

red pms are no laughing matter

i would hope most players would take the hint that "incredibly confident" suggests

i tend to be bad at understanding social cues like that. sorry.

[Ausuka]

also @Ausuka, talking about Ari reads and being NK'd, what do you make of everything she said about fire in 1986?

Uh, fire is one of the people I'm considering as possible scum and I obviously am not sure what to do with myself right now. That said, uh, idk what to do with this? Because Ari's theory here could definitely be correct but, uh, it seems like a very complex theory and I'm not sure much evidence exists for it?

[Ausuka]

Hi I am here again and feel bleh about this game

I think shea is town and don't really think it's SS either for reasons I've tried to explain? But not sure what else to do and where to go

I'll try looking at recent posts more closely later but I have a bit of time now so like, does anyone wanna interact with me or ask me stuff

[Ausuka]

I mean I haven't played with SS for a long time but my impression is that he's just like this?

[Ausuka]

At least this feels pretty similar to when I played with him in 2019, he wouldn't do much in the early game and kind of floated around a bit, this is what I'd expect after replacing

[Ausuka]

I remember liking him a bit yesterday but don't really remember any of his posts from today lole

Let me iso him

[Ausuka]

Ok so obscure why are you scumreading Deas

I don't have anything other than your initial post where you sat you didn't like his entrance, what do you think of your d2 posting?

Also can you elaborate on me and GL because I'm not really sure why you suspect us from the quote that you gave, or the extent to which you do

[Ausuka]

Thoughts on obscure?

Null I guess

[Ausuka]

Part of my SS townlean is that on d1 I felt like the FB wagon was an easy wagon scum were using and it feels like VPB flipping red made that thought correct because part of the reason I was scumreading him is that his FB push felt easy and wrong. Is that confirmation bias? Idk

[Ausuka]

I think ydrasse might be a wolf

[Ausuka]

Idk I mean my take right now is that Shea and ss is t/t and that makes her d2 play really bad? I don't like 3610 at sll

[Ausuka]

Idk though I was townreading ydrasse

I think I need to look at firs again too

[Ausuka]

Datisi sorry for shittunelling you we're still bffs right

Anyway i want to talk about ydrasse and fireisredsir

(I will also do that frog thing now tsq told me to do!!! why am i so bad at getting things done)

[Ausuka]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[Ausuka]

having frog's isos in large normal 238 and this game side by side;
- first thing i notice is that wild theories and stuff is something he does as scum too and wildness isn't town indicative for him
- i think his play in that game is cleaner. i don't think it's something i see, like, completely cleanly or confidently, but in general he seems to be more focused on pushing a single player, and his reads make more sense; i guess it would make sense to me that the difference is he's scum and is inventing reads in a relatively simple manner vs what town frogster actually comes up with?
- i would disagree that he's notably more co-operative in that game. frog in this game appears to be stubbornly anti-gamma, even suggesting FB is trying to 'bail out' Gamma in 1781 just for coming in and doing things that aren't gamma related. when scamper argues that gamma is town he is willing to unvote despite this, and in general his strategy d1 was basically just pushing the people the consensus townreads agreed were probably scum. i don't really know what this strategy means for his alignment and have no experience with this kind of play, but it's very co-operative! he's asking a lot of questions of people and working with them. If anything he seems *less* co operative in the scumgame, because
- frog in the scumgame seems very... persistent, to put it mildly. a lot of his posts are basically just blank reads and i feel like he has made way too many posts that are some variant of 'we should eliminate yeet' on day 1. he's play acting about having strong reads, i guess. i'm not sure scum frog would play scum the same way in every game, but maybe it means something somehow?? idk im kinda struggling to find much meaning in this

basically frog is one of the people i have no baseline expectations of and i'm not confident meta on him will actually be useful because i don't understand him at all. i think there are differences between the two games but nothing clearing

[Ausuka]

I am slightly bothered by the "hopefully I wake up to the dead thread" sort of stuff but again, I sort of have difficulty seeing the scum-motivation

I used to scumread that kind of thing because it feels super artificial to me but it kept being wrong so I stopped doing it

I will go back and look at shea's posting with what dats said? I really felt like shea was town tho

[Ausuka]

wtf

[Ausuka]

i mean someone asked me to do it... if i had done it on my own accord i wouldn't have made a post about it

[Ausuka]

>.>

[Ausuka]

hi i'm going to get pizza

i still feel kind of lost about this game because obviously i can't push ydrasse anymore zzz

can i like engage with someone or something

[Ausuka]

i mean, you can push YD if you want.

Ok true but it's not going anywhere

[Ausuka]

Ok so obscure why are you scumreading Deas

I don't have anything other than your initial post where you sat you didn't like his entrance, what do you think of your d2 posting?

Also can you elaborate on me and GL because I'm not really sure why you suspect us from the quote that you gave, or the extent to which you do

Obscure I talked to you here

[Ausuka]

I've been trying to do stuff >.>

[Ausuka]

VOTE: obscure

ig lol

[Ausuka]

i dont really care for this wagon and don't particularly think this will flip wolf

but i think its better than SS and shea so like

uwu

[Ausuka]

i mean i'd think about it

i'm sort of lost in this game right now, i was suspecting dannflor earlier but there are some recent posts of his i liked

[Ausuka]

sorry i'm not exactly sober rn, what do you mean

shouldn't tsq die first for that anyway

Shea really feels like an example of everyone getting distracted by the bright, shiny, loud townie who isn’t afraid of saying stuff that can very obviously come off as off-putting or offensive or outrageous instead of focusing on the scum sitting on the sidelines

I think people need to stop focusing on shea

Shea wagon is bad

Is this scum that knows shea is town?

How do you differentiate this from dann just townreading shea normally

[Ausuka]

Less blatant mainly

Less actively trying to stop an elimination and more giving a read while letting the wagon go through

It makes more sense to think we’re buddies here

I’m just confident on a read and I would like him to not get killed, I also think all the current discourse around his slot isn’t very productive or moving the game forward

To be fair the white knight title isn't helping your case here

[Ausuka]

how do you know that he's town and town reading him?

I mean, I obviously don't? You were the one who suggested it's AI, I'm asking why because I am unsure about my dannflor read

[Ausuka]

READS TRIANGLE

[Ausuka]

I want to think of a funky reads thing but I'm lazy

[Ausuka]

can someone talk to me about the vpb/FB interactions, I thought they were towny but it seems like a lot of people disagree? And it's not super clear to me why people believe that was a distancing push. It's possible I missed or forgot about a post or two? But I think discussing it in real time will probs be more productive than going back and looking for an old post.

I tried just reading SS and like idk I don't think he's done anything AI yet

[Ausuka]

I mean she has given stances that align with those in the past to be fair

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Dannflor

I have reconsidered and I like this actually

the S_S progression was kinda ??? and i don't really buy that he went from, like, 'no compelling reason to vote ss' to doing it so quickly. this made me read his iso and i remembered i do not like his opening posts, particularly his gl and marci pushes

the obscure push is like... fine and not really the reason i'm voting him but i don't think it's really town indicative because like it is pretty easy

hem is a slot im just 'meh' on because i feel like i havent read much of his posts in ages. i guess i can iso him later

[Ausuka]

the S_S progression was kinda ??? and i don't really buy that he went from, like, 'no compelling reason to vote ss' to doing it so quickly.

what's the scum motivation for doing this?

it makes me feel like dann is playing inorganically and was trying to fake a chaotic mindset but ended up doing it in a way that isn't really believable

scum don't play to their wincon perfectly or straightforwardly imo

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Dannflor

I have reconsidered and I like this actually

the S_S progression was kinda ??? and i don't really buy that he went from, like, 'no compelling reason to vote ss' to doing it so quickly. this made me read his iso and i remembered i do not like his opening posts, particularly his gl and marci pushes

the obscure push is like... fine and not really the reason i'm voting him but i don't think it's really town indicative because like it is pretty easy

hem is a slot im just 'meh' on because i feel like i havent read much of his posts in ages. i guess i can iso him later

Ok but why is Obscure town?

i didn't say i townread obscure

i think there are a big pool of players who ~could~ be scum and my scumreads arent that strong so im just like, floating around and trying to watch what happens i guess

also, datisi definitely got cleared right. i didnt just hallucinate that?

[Ausuka]

the S_S progression was kinda ??? and i don't really buy that he went from, like, 'no compelling reason to vote ss' to doing it so quickly.

what's the scum motivation for doing this?

it makes me feel like dann is playing inorganically and was trying to fake a chaotic mindset but ended up doing it in a way that isn't really believable

scum don't play to their wincon perfectly or straightforwardly imo

i don't think he's playing inorganiclly or chaotically at all

i read his posts on the last page and they seem fine to me

i mean, it's fine if you think that way? i dont expect you to agree with me on every read and i don't really expect to convince people, i'm just trying to keep my thought process at least semi transparent. but like, i think i explained why i think what i do, i think the progression comes off bad and am not sure what else to say about it

[Ausuka]

Ok so obscure why are you scumreading Deas

I don't have anything other than your initial post where you sat you didn't like his entrance, what do you think of your d2 posting?

Also can you elaborate on me and GL because I'm not really sure why you suspect us from the quote that you gave, or the extent to which you do

Obscure i tried to engage w/ you here and you didn't respond. You've basically talked about how people aren't talking about deas and they should be but where is the meat of why we should scumread DV?

And yeah the other thing about me and gl I would like elaboration on still

[Ausuka]

UNVOTE:

sure whatever

feels like im not really getting anything done this game so will check out for a bit. it seems like wagons are going fine without me so i'll see what happens there ig.

[Ausuka]

I'd like Nero and Ausuka to confirm there's an up to date reads list in their iso or post one.

i dont have reads rn really. i feel like everything i do is wrong or gets shut down immediately and i dont really know where to go now

it seems like hem is going to be eliminated which like... i suppose i could just iso him later and like i might but i just dont have strong feelings and rn i feel fine just watching

pedit: i don't blame you for trying to win the game scamper and im not angry at you or anything i just feel deflated

[Ausuka]

ok thats not true actually i can make a reads list

i dont think its going to be incredibly helpful but it's something like this

{scamper, dats}
{nero, guiltylion, shea}
{deasvail, gamma, s_s}
{enchant, frog, hem, obscure, marci, ydrasse}
{fire, dann}

fire and dann could basically mix with the second bottom tier but thought it might be helpful to separate it out

[Ausuka]

ok thats not true actually i can make a reads list

i dont think its going to be incredibly helpful but it's something like this

{scamper, dats}
{nero, guiltylion, shea}
{deasvail, gamma, s_s}
{enchant, frog, hem, obscure, marci, ydrasse}
{fire, dann}

fire and dann could basically mix with the second bottom tier but thought it might be helpful to separate it out

any reason in particular on fire?

i'm not in a mafia mood rn, but some stuff was concerning me d1 and i think i remember talking about that. ari was like one of the only ones who agreed with that and she died - i mean, she didn't agree with my point specifically, but like i don't think that's important for NK purposes. i also remember thinking on this day fire had some like, quick backing down/changing positions which i didn't like, although i suppose you won't think that's scummy. there were some other things which i might elaborate on later - it's hard to recall in sufficient detail now but i could refresh my memory with an iso - but overall i recognise the case isnt that great which is why i havent really been pushing it

Why did you unvote Dann if he's still a scum read?

i dont really want to be pushing things rn and i dont think the dann push was going to go anywhere.

Ausuka can you talk to me about the guiltylion read. I seem to remember it related to VPB interaction but I could be misremembering. Is there more to it than that?

i think gl/vpb interactions are very good, yes

i think he echoed my thoughts on a lot of things later d1, especially w/ vp baltar, which i guess is partially the same point but i think it felt at the time like he was being a voice of reason and making really strong points. i know, we've all seen this come from scum before, but i think it makes him definitely >rand town.

throughout d2 i think he's been a consistently strong presence - i mean i guess i could iso and drag up the quotes i liked but like if i'm being honest the core of it is i like the vibes i've been getting from him

[Ausuka]

yes, that's just what he does

[Ausuka]

why did you want a readslist from me? i feel like i should remember this but i don't

[Ausuka]

town mayor:

scamper

angels:

Ari, Ausuka, Marci, Ydrasse

btw can someone explain to me what this means

like i assumed the angels was a meme because all of us are, uh, idk the word for it but Not Boys

but presumably she's townreading all these people? i'm just not clear to the extent. like should i sheep her on marci and ydrasse here lole

[Ausuka]

Nero sorry if I missed it but why is scamper scum

I do not think he does the thing with Datisi as scum ever

[Ausuka]

Because scamper is the kind of player who can sweep games and putting himself on a timer like that is just super super strange play

[Ausuka]

I feel like obscure is continuously ignoring me and I have no idea why

[Ausuka]

I might have a suspicion? But I'm hardly confident in it. I think if scamper is scum this game he is pretty obviously a scum carry for starters. I have also played with him twice before on scamper account and know he is a good player especially as scum.

I don't think scamper uses language like that if he's just TMIing tbh but maybe I misinterpreted him??

[Ausuka]

Also I'm probably taller than you smh

[Ausuka]

Frog what's my Meyers Briggs type pls respond

[Ausuka]

I actually got INFP when I last took the quiz so both of you are fairly close

I don't put much stock into Meyer Briggs though and have gotten a range of results before

I guess I'm adding to the noise but like this is funny so

Pedit: when I was a kid I dreamed of becoming an intercontinental ballistic missile

[Ausuka]

we know we're just letting you live because you're funny

[Ausuka]

I don't take being common as an insult anyway!

[Ausuka]

Wtf no one invited me to the pt

[Ausuka]

You have not been light I promise

[Ausuka]

shea why is datisi not, like, locktown here? i mean am i missing something?

also, gamma isn't SS just like this? why do u think its antispew

[Ausuka]

Because I'm not vibing with almost everything he's posting. I could go back and reread some of what I've said if you want more concrete examples but it wouldn't be for a little bit.

Why do you think he's obviously town?

I mean I was scumreading him but scamper said he had info that confirms datisi town?

[Ausuka]

I wouldn't say I'm tunneled? I am aware there is a very good chance Datisi is town. I think
1) nobody else is really going to give Datisi any scrutiny if I don't do it
2) I have in fact been thinking about other slots in the game and there isn't any one in particular that stands out as a good push to me right now.

I have been giving arguments for why Datisi is suspicious. Last time you talked to me you mischaracterised my arguments as saying Datisi is scum because VPB pushed him which obviously is not the case. I'm open to dropping this but I don't know why you'd expect "datisi is town" to convince me?

because i am strongly implying i have reasons i would not like to state at this time and my hope is u would pick up on that rather than continuing to press me on that

i would hope most players would take the hint that "incredibly confident" suggests

UNVOTE:

whatever I'm stupid or something you guys have fun without me

you're not stupid. you're just wrong in a game of mafia. it happens to everyone. i value your input which is why i wanted to nudge you off of spending all your time pushing an incorrect read.

I mean maybe I misinterpreted this but ???

[Ausuka]

It's not literally confirming because it could be s/s or scamper could be basing this off a read he cant talk about and he thinks is very accurate but wrong

I think both of these worlds are not likely at all tho

I don't think scamper wants to play like this as scum w/ dats and I don't think I'm a threat to him and even if I am they can just nk me

pedit: oh sorry I didn't see it as AI lol

[Ausuka]

I think that falls under the second

[Ausuka]

I guess, I wouldn't call that a read per se.

Fair, I refer to invests as reads sometimes, like a cop read, but that might just be a me thing

you were the only one pushing Dats at that point right? Is it really worth outting yourself over a wagon that was prob never going to happen?

shrug, don't really think it's useful to discuss the merits of his play and could help scum so

[Ausuka]

wait you townread me?

[Ausuka]

wait you townread me?

should I not?

i mean i feel like you have said that you're suspicious of me? am i getting confused

[Ausuka]

if you did indeed do that i'd like you to say why it changed, yeah

[Ausuka]

yes, HEM should at least claim, not very good situational awareness here.

this raises the question of whether it's allowed to program a bot to claim for you while you're asleep if you're at E-2 or E-1

[Ausuka]

I recommend not following through with the HEM wagon

kinda same in that, like, i don't really like the vibes rn but also i don't really have any counterargument and don't think i can provide a viable alternative so, shrug

[Ausuka]

Hi - I've started university, so activity might decline a bit going forward, but I should still be able to like, not lurk lol

I'm saying do better because it makes it kinda unpleasant to play with you when as I see it the only time you're ever not calling for my head in a basket is when I shouldn't be working with you because you're scum

Is it too shallow to townread this. I don't see why scum gamma gets mad at Nero for being right??? I guess she could be faking it but like. I do not feel like that is the case

[Ausuka]

Hi - I've started university, so activity might decline a bit going forward, but I should still be able to like, not lurk lol

I'm saying do better because it makes it kinda unpleasant to play with you when as I see it the only time you're ever not calling for my head in a basket is when I shouldn't be working with you because you're scum

Is it too shallow to townread this. I don't see why scum gamma gets mad at Nero for being right??? I guess she could be faking it but like. I do not feel like that is the case

One of these days I'm going to do a deep dive of some gamma scum games and try to determine if this tone thing everyone keeps talking about is actually true because I really just don't know but I feel like she has to have SOME amount of this stuff in her scum games.

Also, congrats!

Thanks!

Gamma does have some emotional stuff - I had a game with her in it where he was scum and like iirc she seemed a bit less fluid than here and still had emotional posting to some extent but not quite like this? Honestly, I can't say I understand Gamma that well but it seems like it should be +town for him?

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yes

I think you play quirky. I think there's a solving intent behind some of it.

I'm reading into it a little bit and thinking you have a Slayer's Gambit thing going on sometimes.

I guess it's anti-town for me to point it out, but also you asked.

How would marci play differently as scum do you think

(this isn't related but I hate the idea of slayer's gambit because yes scum might jump on you for being scummy but town might also jump on you for being scummy and it would be understandable since you played like you weren't town)

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and if anyone has any questions please tnx

What do you mean when you say you wanted attention on you? As in, were you just provoking scamper into wagoning you to see what would happen, or were you acting scummy on purpose to see who would jump on you. If the latter - why do you think this would work

(I tried isoing you to see if you answered this already and afaik you haven't but sorry if I missed it!)

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Fwiw nero I understand why you're suspicious of Gamma slot but I thought similarly about her last game I played - at time she seemed like sitting on the sidelines and only fanning the flames of conflicts iirc, like calling both sides scummy - and she ended up being town, so I don't really want to scumread him for that

pedit: can you point me to where marci has been solvy in a way that hasn't been trivial to fake? I might have missed something

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if you did indeed do that i'd like you to say why it changed, yeah

I did say that but I'm just all over the place right now. I came into this day with a set idea of who I thought was scum/who I thought was town (I guess maybe it hasn't changed THAT much but things are grayer now.) and now my belief system is shook.

Ok but I'd like to you elaborate? Why am i suddenly town now

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Idk man the hem thing is like. I know I should think something concrete about this but I'm just drawing a blank.

Part of me wants to say it doesn't make sense so it's scum but hutmeil did this exact thing to me in the game that just ended and flipped green so I'm not confident in that

Shrug HEM probably doesn't endgame regardless and I don't have a big problem with that

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The alternate take is it's just me and i should be looking at who whiteknighted or held off their vote for no good reason

i think this is what id be more likely to do as scum if you're town here, scum prob get stuck worried about looking consistent with their past reads

there's also just not a ton of worlds where i feel like scum would find it necessary to flip their position in order to get on your wagon

especially one that is more or less led by people who are p towncore, that's just gonna attract more random townies to join so scum don't even have to help

I don't feel like I can explain why adequately but I hate this post

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I thought it's convenient that you townread me when everybody did and now scumread me when everybody did

i mean cant you think of something that happened that might have influenced that 'everything' to scumread you including shea???

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WISDOM OF DAY.

IF SOMEONE PUSHES MAFIA, THEY ARE BUSSING. THEY MUST BE MAFIA.
IF SOMEONE PUSHES TOWN, THEY ARE MAFIA KILLING INNOCENTS.
IF SOMEONE DEFENDS MAFIA, THEY ARE TEAMMATE AND PROTECT EACH OTHER.
IF SOMEONE DEFENDS TOWN, THEY ARE WHITEKNIGHTING AND MUST BE MAFIA.

People pushing mafia are mafia and people pushing town are town

Works every time

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Ok enchant slot is probably town I guess

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Does enchant just like...not try as scum at all?

Multiple people were like ok enchant is town after the most baseline sort posting.

Yeah basically.

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I'm just hoping ydrasse will resolve herself eventually

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well what do *you* think

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hem is there a reason you keep making generalisations about your wagon instead of focusing on who exactly we should look at? like, you hardly seem certain about what your wagon means, and 'on' and 'off wagon' are big groups

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i'm not even sure if this is scummy but it is ~weird~

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maybe u should read the game

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deadline is in 4 days apparently?

Well whatever you're going to die anyway so if you don't want to do anything that's your perogative I guess

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well there goes my plan to be lazy

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sks are definitely allowed in large normals but also I hope I didn't accidentally sign up for a sk game lole

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What do mafia really gain from living slightly longer if it doesn't help them endgame

I mean theoretically hem could just be lying but eh i don't think this is a good idea

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What do mafia really gain from living slightly longer if it doesn't help them endgame

I mean theoretically hem could just be lying but eh i don't think this is a good idea

He could be a mafia PR?

I mean yes but this possibility seems not large enough to be worth acting on?

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What do mafia really gain from living slightly longer if it doesn't help them endgame

I mean theoretically hem could just be lying but eh i don't think this is a good idea

He could be a mafia PR?

I mean yes but this possibility seems not large enough to be worth acting on?

why?

most mafia are not PRs
a lot of mafia PRs don't do a whole lot
we risk losing a confirmable slot which is kind of big
risks outweigh benefits
I have always activated for letting conf claims live

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the vig discussion is reminding me i need to actually stop being lazy >.>

i will try and play properly tonight but the people i was going to try and look at are {marci, frog, dann, fire, obscure} for whatever that's worth

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probably obvious but i also prefer marci over gamma!

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I don't see that much scum motivation for scum SS to do this and I don't really see why he'd be more likely to do this as scum?

I feel like this is just, uh, an azelf thing. And I don't know if his avatar is actually azelf but I'm making a guess and that's not Mesprit so I have at least a 50% chance to be right!

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Like if scum SS discovers this hint why is the reaction like "I should share this with the entire game thread"

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Maybe I'm just being dumb but idgi

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Like if scum SS discovers this hint why is the reaction like "I should share this with the entire game thread"

i mean it doesn't really line up with what ive seen from town SS before

both games ive played with town SS he was like extremely secretive about sharing thoughts out of fear that doing so would benefit scum, especially role related things

i don't really see how this fits into that mindset

idk what exactly his motivations would be as scum, there's lots of possibilities, one that comes to mind is s/s with marci, knowing that he probably isn't going to live that long, and wanting to make it look like he tmi'd her as town

I'd like it if you could link some ideas of S_S doing this? I would take it into consideration if I knew like this actually goes against SS's townplay

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well i guess if she's lying vig can just pew pew her? shrug. someone had to have killed vpb

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she could also be sk but we worry about that, like

sometime in the future i think

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shoot me marci i yearn for freedom

pedit: LMFAO

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ok sure ig

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hardclaim n20 vig

(I agree fire needs pressure and I'll try and do something? Tonight but it won't be like, properly that but I'll get stuff done eventually!!!!!)

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(I don't even trust myself honestly I don't understand this game)

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You guys were trying to figure out what's going on?

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can we kill datisi :/

am I the only one who read the scamper thing guys did I just hallucinate that shit

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VOTE: obscure

whatever this is cool w/ me

sorry if ur town obscure but you have been extremely lurky and refused to respond to me or engage with me at all so... i hope you get to claim at least?

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datisi is not 100% clear but we do not kill him for any reason until scamper reds and we especially do not vig him on n2?

Btw my opinion on wagon analysis is that I think scum are on and off wagon at roughly the same rate most of the time lole

pedit: I thought ydra was softing IC i guess but that works too

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hardclaim town rolecop checked dats last night he was bulletproof vigilante

sorry u cant kill him

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i'm never scum without scamper

well there's also the world where scamper's a gunsmith and you're a traitor

but yeah a bunch of better vig shots to be made first

if scamper is town and datisi is scum I am going to slam my head against a desk multiple times I swear to god

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I still do not think it's GL at all

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you guys know the night is never going to end until Gamma slot is filled

hopefully we get someone fun in that slot

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I still do not think it's GL at all

can you give me the cliffnotes of why.

to me he's sort of floating on the periphery a lot.

idk to me it's like

i think he's posted a lot of really good analysis?? he seems genuine with the way he talks about his reads and like, i remember when i was fighting with vp baltar on day 1 he was there too and making really good points, and I know scum can bus but I really felt like he was nailing down vpb there when he didn't have to and playing in a very protown way and that earns him a lot of points in my eyes. i think his interactions with VPB feel really genuine as well and like reading through them they don't feel like distancing?

I'm tired right now but hopefully this is an ok writeup

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dv is in that space where like

My gut says he's town because I liked his walls and his townread of shea which I agreed with

But I feel like when people post rarely in big walls which are reasonable they often end up being scum

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ok i just isod him and i'm down actually

VOTE: deasvail

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yeah i feel like marci/gamma/s_s/frog is a p easy pool to have generally and when s_s looks like he's dong things he gets removed??

and like i feel like a big part of his content in hindsight is pushing frog and marci for doing Frogster Things and Marci Things??? idk