NY 163: Void Mountain of the Nightless Temple (Game Over)
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Bulbazak Survivor
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@Titan Another waller, eh?
Serious point, though: If the five infiltrators entered with the six new priests, shouldn't we just lynch all six and be done with it? Food for thought.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Bulbazak Survivor
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@BT You're right. We obviously don't pay attention.
Vote Bulbazak
Discuss.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Always willing to try something new Robo. Feeling a little better about you. Call it gut.
In post 19, Titan wrote:I propose an all hydra town block.
I'm not sure what to make of this. Some clarification would be nice.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Got what I wanted.
Vote BTBulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Bulbazak Survivor
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In post 44, BT wrote:My next question was going to be how you expect scum to react to a town self-vote.
Couple of things:
1.) I'd expect scum to be drawn to it in certain ways. The most obvious would be to vote in the hopes of an easy lynch. Another way would be to cast suspicion on the vote without actually voting for the person who self-voted. In fact, drawing a lot of attention to the self vote would be ideal for scum, whether they are on the wagon or not. That's why a self vote can be a good way to judge reactions.
Let's take you, for instance. Your voting habits thus far have been very opportunistic. You jumped on the first wagon available without much of a reason of your own. Then when my self vote starts garnering a lot of attention, you choose that opportunity to vote, after criticizing others' reasons for doing so. In other words, you tried to have your cake and eat it too. You can't join a wagon and distance yourself from it at the same time. It doesn't work like that.
Regardless, this was something new that I wanted to try, and I got quite a few leads from it. 4 people bit, and I believe 1-2 of those are town. Going to start with the scummiest and work my way from there, starting with BT.
2.) "A town self-vote"? Sounds like you're in the know, which you shouldn't be, unless you're scum.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Bulbazak Survivor
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I'm calling both of your votes opportunistic.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Bulbazak Survivor
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UA, AA9 voting for you is not a good reason to believe she is scum. That is null at best. And having played with her before, she is playing incredibly town here. I'm not sure how to feel about your read posts. They just feel off somehow. Suffice to say, I have a gut scum read of you.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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How does it feel to be scum?Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Yes, because that's what you do. You sit down, type it out, look at it, and then post. Is there a problem with playing the game?
I responded to UA's series of read posts, precisely because I felt that they felt off. AA9 is not the greatest player in the world, but that's just the way she plays. Once you get that, there's a real honesty in her posts that is very tangible as town. Therefore, I have a strong town read on her. My scum read on UA is mainly gut at the moment, but it's fairly strong. My scum read on you is due to the opportunistic nature of your votes, and the way you tried to trivialize my earlier post to UA. I see nothing pro-town from any of your posts. Period. I could go on, but I don't feel like giving a full list of reads at this time.
Suffice it to say, RVS is over. Let's lynch some scum.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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I've played with AA9 as town, and she feels even more town in this game than in that one.
I believe that discussion is very pro-town, but then you'd know that if you had read my meta.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Bulbazak Survivor
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First:
Unvote
I believe I understand how BT plays better now...
In post 73, Keybladewielder wrote:ArcAngel - SCUM AS ALWAYS
Bulbazak - Scummy
Everyone else - town as of so far
That's seriously all you've gotten out of the game so far? Please explain.
In post 87, TheUnderachivers wrote:
AA9 scumread is gut. Voting for a hydra is one thing. Voting for a hydra when they've done nothing to distinguish themselves from the other hydras, with the justification of it being a hydra, is entirely another. Voting for a hydra for being a hydra and giving an additional reason for whyIn post 61, Bulbazak wrote:UA, AA9 voting for you is not a good reason to believe she is scum. That is null at best. And having played with her before, she is playing incredibly town here.thathydra would be fine, but that's not what happened. It shows potentially-selective-scumhunting. Hence, the callout on AA9 being scum.
That vote was an RVS vote. There was no selective scumhunting there, because there was no scumhunting yet, BECAUSE IT WAS FREAKING RVS! It is a null tell. Get over yourself and find some actual scum.
In post 88, TheUnderachivers wrote:Oh. Forgot this. The bad posts from BT:
Bad vote, bad logic, questioning Titan who is a townread.In post 35, BT wrote:In post 32, Reek wrote:Because town do also do it sometimes "for the lols" or "for reactions, derp". Which is why scum feel that they can get away with it and why it needs to be forcibly eradicated. I don't mind whether you call it a policy lynch or just a lynch if that makes you feel better but it is a pro-scum move that should be punished with a lynch.
ChannelDelibird, ChannelDelibird, it rhymes with ChannelDeliturd.
It's not as horribly anti-town as you're making it out to be. Are you one of those players that go "PL PL" over something meh like this instead of useless and/or consistently anti-town play as a whole?
In post 33, Titan wrote:It wasn't until your next post that you voted for yourself, which makes your self vote look like a self conscious attempt to not vote someone else.
Don't get this. Why is this true as a second post and not as a first post?
UNVOTE: VOTE: Bulbazak
Knowing how he plays, the vote wasn't bad, his logic was spot on, and questioning a townread does not automatically equal scum. And I wouldn't go as far as to say that Titan is an unquestionable townread.
Vote Titan
His attack on the self-vote, yet avoidance of the wagon screams scum.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Bulbazak Survivor
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In post 127, Robocopter87 wrote:Raise your hand if you read me as town
I won't be raising my hand at all if you keep avoiding discussion.
Titan, answer HD and Serra, why the Rach vote?
P-Edit: You've got to be kidding me...
AA9, don't fall for scum again. BT is looking for reactions, not sheeping. It made sense after our back and forth. BT is town. Titan is scum. Get on board.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Bulbazak Survivor
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BT, what's so scummy about Ms. Marangal's post?Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Got anything more substantial than that?Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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I was about to say, I didn't remember a Cerulean in this game.
Now onto the meat of this post. I HATE people treating me like I'm stupid or don't know what I'm doing because of how long I've been playing this game. I know exactly what I'm doing, thank you very much. My self-vote gave me plenty of information. Robo's vote was due to him wanting to self-vote. It's not alignment indicative, although the way he said it gave me a slight town vibe. I had already ruled Reek's vote as null for precisely the reasons you pointed out. I took note of your dislike for the move, but reluctance to vote, which I saw as scummy, but it might be because one of your heads are so far up your own self glorified butt that the other is spending their precious time trying to fish it out. My conversation with BT gave me plenty of insight into his alignment and play, and he is therefore a solid town read. The move also succeeded in getting us out of RVS to do some actual scumhunting. So don't get on your pedestal and tell me that I'm just a lowly noob who doesn't know what he's doing and shouldn't be in this game (And yes, I KNOW you didn't outright say it, but it was implied).
We might dance later, but for now, I'm going to keep my vote where it is until I have some time to cool off.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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In post 225, Keybladewielder wrote:OMG I'm about to freaking ragequit!
Why? No one is really voting you, and you've done nothing to indicate that you might not be scum. Do some scumhunting, and people might start looking elsewhere.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Ok, first I want to apologize for my play thus far. Normally I'm a lot better at logically dissecting posts, but I seem to have started off with the wrong tactic. I wanted to try something new with the self-vote, but while it did eventually lead to some reads, it did so in a roundabout way. I doubt I'm going to use this gambit again, just because of how troublesome it is in the long run.
Now on to the meat of this post. I took some time to go back over the game and try to see the big picture. The following are my reads thus far:
Reek - Null. As has been pointed out before, his thoughts on a self-vote policy lynch are not indicative of alignment. He really hasn't done anything else.
Human Destroyer - Town. He came out strong questioning people's motives and actively scumhunting. Seriously, he's posting town like crazy.
Antilles - Leaning Scum. They really haven't posted much besides prod dodges. Otherwise they are being really defensive about being voted for without adequately dissecting the reasons for the votes or the voters themselves. I also did not like their post #111. It did not feel genuine.
Titan - Town. As much as I dislike Titan at the moment, that gigantic wall and the reaction to my post reads town. Going back over the thread, it is now easy to read the towniness in their posts. It's something you have to get used to I guess...
Ms. Marangal - Leaning Town. Her early posts had little to no content. However, her more recent posts give me a town vibe. I expect her to get more lively as the game progresses.
The Acting Method - Leaning Scum. He really hasn't posted anything content-wise, but I have a hard time believing he can't follow what's going on. What this shows me is an unwillingness to read while still trying to make it appear like he has. That's a scum trait to me.
BT - Town. BT unvoted me after asking about how I feel about discussion when it comes to finding scum. I had a hard time rectifying that with a scum mindset. If he was scum, he would have rode the Bulbazak wagon hard, especially with all the attention I was getting with the self-vote. Unvoting because of that reason does not make sense as scum. Therefore, I read him as town. His voting habits make sense once you realize he's trying to get reads on his nulls, and he's using votes to do that. He's an active voter. That's his playstyle, and while I may not always agree, to each his own when it comes to catching scum.
Serrapaladin - Town. He's asking the right questions and actively scumhunting. Plus his posts give me town vibes to boot.
The Underachivers - Leaning Town. I checked out Mastin's wiki after BBMolla called me Mastin 2.0 in Newbie 1333. It seems that he has a habit of making bad calls when it comes to reads. Therefore, I really can't use that as a scum tell. I also find him overjustifying his scumtells on AA9 and Otter to be townish. It just feels genuine. I don't like them freaking out about the possibility of being lynched. While no one wants to be lynched, scum is more likely to freak out in that matter than town. Them having bad luck with being lynched early in past games might explain it, but this is the reason why I'm not calling them full on town.
Keybladewielder - Scum. His posts lack content. His reads were fake. And the immediacy of that post after the one where he said he was going to catch up shows that he was not truly reading.
Robocopter87 - Leaning Town. I got some town vibes off of his post #21. However, I'm disliking his lack of content, although I'm getting a feeling this is part of his playstyle. Would like to see more of him before I will completely call him town.
Klick - Town. I've seen some real town motivation in his more recent posts.
Metal Overlord - Leaning Scum. Most of their posts were arguing with UA about hydra head claiming. All it did was take up space and did nothing to help in the scumhunting. While I did like their postion on me and my self-vote after my outburst, I don't believe that to be a towntell by itself. In all probability, probably buddying. To top it off, they have recently been advocating a policy lynch, which would be an easy mislynch for scum.
Otterhorse - Scum. Most of their posts have been about theory or setup. Other than that, they've been advocating strongly for a policy/utility lynch. Their admonishment of me after mine and Titan's back and forth does not feel genuine at all, and feels like more of an attempt to discredit me and any future arguments I might have. That's a strong scumtell with me. Their reads also do not feel genuine at all. It is more like they took a list of people who fell in the scum or null category and threw them together as a lynch list. I will say this is the only scumread that doesn't completely mesh with the others. Should we lynch Otter and they flip scum, I will need to reexamine everything to see who is more likely to be scum.
Rach Marie - Null. Almost forgot her. So far she really hasn't posted anything that is alignment indicative. She has promised a reads list, so I'm going to wait until she posts that, as I feel that will give me a better handle on her alignment.
Arcangel9 - Town. As I've said, I've played with her before, and she is playing crazy town.
All that being said...
Unvote
Vote Otterhorse
I really can't bring myself to vote anyone else.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Bulbazak Survivor
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HD, why is setup spec filler when Serra does it, but not when Otter does it?Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Most of Otter's posts have either been about setup spec, trying to get Antilles's heads to claim, or about policy lynching someone. How is that towny at all?Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Rach, deadline is not this Monday, but the Monday after. Key will be back in plenty of time, although I doubt we'll notice.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Waiting for that reads list from Rach...Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Actually, that brings up a good question: TAM, why do you care what people think anyway?Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Robo, that's all that Otter's posts have been about. Some players have wanted policy lynches because they felt such and such person would be a hinderance to the town if they were not scum. However, Otter just wants to policy lynch for the sake of policy lynching. That, and their "scumhunting" posts have not read as genuine. This is why I have my vote on them in the first place.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Unvote
Vote The Acting Method
Yeah, I can get behind this one. I'm no longer leaning scum on TAM, he's now a full on scumread. He's not participating. He's not contributing to discussion. I have a hard time rectifying that with a town mindset.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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In post 319, Titan wrote:
bulba wrote:
The Underachivers - Leaning Town. I checked out Mastin's wiki after BBMolla called me Mastin 2.0 in Newbie 1333. It seems that he has a habit of making bad calls when it comes to reads. Therefore, I really can't use that as a scum tell. I also find him overjustifying his scumtells on AA9 and Otter to be townish. It just feels genuine. I don't like them freaking out about the possibility of being lynched. While no one wants to be lynched, scum is more likely to freak out in that matter than town. Them having bad luck with being lynched early in past games might explain it, but this is the reason why I'm not calling them full on town.
This is one of your reads I'd like you to expand on further. Yes, in the Posh mafia game, they got mislynched day one. However, neither of the heads of that hydra are early mislynch bait, so some of their posts read fake. What did you think about them thinking that BT was degraded from town to null partially for questioning me about you but not questioning you about your scum read on us? Mastin said he was going to do what he could to keep them from being lynched, but actually hasn't done anything. And Nero's not some idiot who can't post, but he's not doing anything.
As an aside, how people react to being lynched is personality based most of the time. For instance, I react far more negatively to being voted and possibly lynched as town than I do as scum. But their reaction on the whole is pretty weird.
I would say when it came to my read that I was influenced with what I read in Mastin's wiki. I got the general impression that he wasn't good when it came to reads, which excused much of what I had a problem with. The BT thing was bad, as I pointed out at the time, but it's similar to the bad call that Mastin made on AA9. Not calling me out is strange. Normally I would just think that they missed it, but you raised such a big stink over my vote that I'm surprised they didn't say anything. That could make the read on BT a method to possibly buddy up with you. I will admit that their town read of you just felt off, as I didn't regard you as town at the time.
The big reason that I didn't place them as full on town was because of the way they reacted to being voted. They were in no danger of being lynched, yet they freaked out, which I'm just having a hard time rectifying with a town mindset. Personally, I'd like to see what they do the rest of the day and then come back to my read d2. I can give you an update then if you want.
In post 319, Titan wrote:
bulba wrote:
Otterhorse - Scum. Most of their posts have been about theory or setup. Other than that, they've been advocating strongly for a policy/utility lynch. Their admonishment of me after mine and Titan's back and forth does not feel genuine at all, and feels like more of an attempt to discredit me and any future arguments I might have. That's a strong scumtell with me. Their reads also do not feel genuine at all. It is more like they took a list of people who fell in the scum or null category and threw them together as a lynch list. I will say this is the only scumread that doesn't completely mesh with the others. Should we lynch Otter and they flip scum, I will need to reexamine everything to see who is more likely to be scum.
This is another one I'd like you to expand on. I like this scum read of yours because I don't think anyone but theunderachivers has given this scum read, but i wonder how much is based on strongly disliking the policy lynch aspect of their play. Why doesn't his admonishment feel genuine? The thing that is difficult is that this play concerning policy/utility lynch is how rainbow actually legitimately feels, so it's not out of the ordinary. Also, I tend to play a more emotionally driven game whereas rainbowdash is more logically driven so the reads and the reasons sometimes don't match up...if that makes sense.
With as soon as their admonishment came after your post and my reaction, it felt like they were seizing that opportunity to completely discredit another player. A post like that tends to be emotionally driven in a way, no matter how logical. It makes it easy to judge intent. That's why I got a town read off of your wall, even though I was ticked off. However, I didn't get any such read when I read Otter's admonishment. It felt wooden and devoid of life.
However, now that Zoraster has posted in the hydra, I'm beginning to think that this all just may be a playstyle clash between me and Rainbowdash. Zoraster comes across as genuine, and while I might not agree with everything he says, I can at least see where he's coming from. As I said, Otter was the one scumread that didn't fit. All my other scumreads I could see working together, but I didn't get that from Otter at all. That's why I said that if Otter flipped scum that I'd have to reread everything when it came to forming reads.
In post 342, Ms Marangal wrote:In post 333, RachMarie wrote:@ Antilles you are going to have to do better than that. As for the whole they want to remain secret, that is null tell. And yeah I have no clue who they are cause NS won't tell me. So lets drop that part of the argument and focus on the hydra's posts and not worry about meta. It is a distraction. I find it rather interesting though, that right after a major wall about him, Antilles shows up and throws out two names saying they feel town. That looks like active lurking. No reasoning given, so we have no clue how they came to the conclusion that the two mentioned players are town. That is scummy.
MM we know you think TAM is scum, but you are tunneling, what about the rest of the players?
UA WTF??? What is your reasoning.
TAM knows full well that I willing to give just about everyone the benefit of the doubt, though he's been bothering me for a while with his not answering questions and stuff
other then TAM though, KBW, UA, and Possibly Bulba would be good picks IMO
I would like more from MO though, and Serra is quieter then what I'm used to... BT is Meh, so is Klick, Otter, Antilles and Reek,
Robo, I feel is town same with you
and everyone else I have no impression on one way or another
What is your reasoning behind those reads?Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Also, Rache, whatever happened to your reads list?Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Personally, the only reason I want Antilles lynched is because he's been extremely anti-town. Plus I hear Chkflip might be part of the hydra, and that's a good enough reason for me.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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Yeah, don't really care for Chk. However, if I was to vote for Antilles at this point, it'd have nothing to do with my dislike for Chk.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!-
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Bulbazak Survivor
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What do you mean "such as BT"? I have BT as a town read, thank you very much.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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In post 356, Ms Marangal wrote:
I was referring to this quote, didn't read much into your later posts. here, it seemed like you were trying to accuse him of making a "scum slip"
I thought it was a scum slip. He corrected me.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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What's wrong with being suspicious of someone due to their call of a policy lynch?Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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To be fair, that's mostly all that Otter has done.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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In post 370, Metal Overlord wrote:Ok, just finished reading the thread over, will move onto ISOs in a second for more accurate reads, but so far Under and Antilles are seeming scummy, though a decent part of that is simply because of the position on anonymous Hydras. This isn't an anonymous game, if it were, I have no problems, however, it isn't, so get with the program. Titan leas scum slightly, but I could easily see them coming back. HD is definitely town, could just be since I got him lynched ftl in my last game, but I doubt it. BT, Robo, and AA also seem to be town, but I'd like to see more from the latter and Klick. I believe everybody else reads neutral, or at least I didn't notice anything in particular, including with TAM. From what I understand, it's a playstyle, and while unlikely, it is possible to just not have opinions. Perhaps the ISO will say differently?
@Mod, I unvoted HD long, long ago, and changed to Under.
I am strongly in favor of Policy lynches. To me, if you have the time for it, a policy lynch should be a way to hit the people who are hard to read, and who you wouldn't be able to tell normally. You eliminate them, provided nobody else seems to be scum more then them, on the off chance that they are scum. However, in this game, outside of Key, TAM, or Antilles, I don't see any options, and aside from Key, I don't think any options are really good.
Also, on a final note, LOL at my other head complaining about quality. You're not one to talk, shush.
First, says 3 people are scummy. 2 because they support hydra anonymity (translation: Policy Lynch), and Titan for magical reasons. He then ends it with 10 nulls. Seriously, you don't have any opinion on over half the players in the game?! He then says that not having an opinion is okay in a game about thoughts and opinions. And finally, he concludes that policy lynches are the way to go and we should PL the crap out of this game.
Yeah...this guy's scum.
Unvote
Vote Metal OverlordBulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Klick, why is Reek such a strong townread? They really haven't said much, besides that part at the beginning of wanting to policy lynch me. I see them as a null read. Is there something I'm missing?Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Arguing over a town slip? Yeah, MM is definitely town.
All of MO's reads are based off of playstyle and not scumtells. It feels manufactured. It looks as if its only purpose is to placate town. Also, those reads do not match his previous post of reads on which I originally questioned him about.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Titan, I don't think it was an inconsistency. I think she just forgot to add you to her reads list. That almost happened with I created mine earlier in the game. Rache was the unlucky one iirc.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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In post 412, Metal Overlord wrote:
Well obviously it was manufactured, the whole point of it was to keep MS here from being lynched.All of MO's reads are based off of playstyle and not scumtells. It feels manufactured. It looks as if its only purpose is to placate town. Also, those reads do not match his previous post of reads on which I originally questioned him about.
So...not for scumhunting. Gotcha. Also, you were in no danger of being lynched. Explanation rejected.
In post 412, Metal Overlord wrote:
Also, the question is, based on the reads, what do you assume my alignment is?
Scum.
In post 412, Metal Overlord wrote:
The point was not to find scum, it was to see how things looked and if anything in particular stuck out.
Your reads list was not to find scum... Fascinating...
In post 412, Metal Overlord wrote:
Then I moved on to ISOs, balancing with the context I would have obtained from the thread.
Except if you had read through the thread, you would have gotten all the context you needed. Thus, those reads should have been all that was needed. Fact of the matter is, you went about it backwards. ISOs are nice, because they give you a bit of overview on a person's actions without reading through the thread. They're good time-wise for getting quick reads or going over your reads. However, if you want the best reads possible, you go through the entire thread, because then you get everything in context. However, you're claiming to have done the opposite: looking at context for preliminary reads and then without to finalize. Like I said, backwards. Sounds like someone got caught.
In post 412, Metal Overlord wrote:
I don't know about you, but I see absolutely zero question. You have one question mark, but no questions.
And what's your point?
In post 412, Metal Overlord wrote:
And, in case you missed it, I didn't say I had null reads, I said people read neutral. It's an important distinction considering I specifically said I planned on posting farther.
No there isn't, unless you're saying that we have a neutral party in the game, which is impossible given the setup. Therefore, null and neutral mean the exact same thing.
In post 412, Metal Overlord wrote:
Also, the post wasn't made to "answer your questions" they were made since the original part was incomplete, and didn't fully accomplish what I wished.
And yet you add this:
In post 394, Metal Overlord wrote:
@Bulbazak, anything else you'd like to add, or you done? Nothing? Alright, thanks, tell me if there is.
Sounds like town pacification to me.
In post 412, Metal Overlord wrote:
You say that my reads seem based more on playstyle then scumslips. I'm sorry, but how does that make them any less valid, at least when I consider content and content quality as part of playstyle? Also, I happened to see any scumslips that could be called such, I believe I pointed them out.
Not scumslips. Scumtells. Two different things. Scumtells are what we use to hunt scum and are the basis of our reads. Yet, you never judged anyone's alignment base on scumtells of any kind. It was entirely based off of playstyle, which makes it read fake.
Can we please lynch this guy now?
Going to be catching up in page by page epic wall style. See you guys soon...Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Page 17:
BT, not reacting to a vote is not a scumtell. I've seen town do it as well, especially, as in the case of your vote, when there's nothing there to respond to. If town feels that the vote is "baseless", they sometimes tend to ignore it and continue in the scumhunting effort, especially if it's not really applying pressure (ie. that's the only vote).
I don't really get your tunneling on MM. Much of what you think is fabricated actually reads genuine to me. I actually think you have problems with her playstyle, rather than having found genuine scumminess. You ask what the difference is between MM's reads and MO's reads. The difference is that MM's reads being generalized fit in with the way she has been posting. You ask for an explanation, and she gives it. MO's reads being generalized, on the other hand, did not fit with the way they had been posting at all. In that regard, they stood out like a sore thumb. I do like how you came over to the MO wagon. That's the better lynch.
In post 423, Metal Overlord wrote:
As for voting me, I'm curious, what do you hope to gain from it? Actual lynch, in which case how to you justify this slot, which has at least given something to go off of, over ones which have done nothing or next to nothing? And if it's simply for pressure, well, k, gl with that.
Look at that beautiful deflection. "Why do you want to lynch me? What about those lurkers over there? They're scummier than I am." To be honest, I'd rather lynch someone that I am pretty sure is going to be scum due to scumtells, slips, etc., than a lurker who has a high probability of being scum. The active scum has the potential to cause more damage, whereas lurker scum does not. Plus, in the eventuality the lurker is town, there is always the possibility that they could actually get active and be a benefit to the town. So yeah, I want you lynched more than I do TAM.
Finished with 17. On to 18.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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In post 425, BT wrote:
You prioritize making your slot look better / keeping MS from being lynched over scumhunting.
Exactly this. This is why I believe MO to be scum. Protecting yourself and trying to make yourself look better instead of scumhunting is not a town trait. EVER.
Robo's reads here are a little weak. I would honestly expect more from someone who's keeping up with the game. However, unlike similar read lists, Robo's do feel genuine and fit with his overall style. And while I am not the biggest fan of such a style, that does not mean that Robo is scum. In fact, he tends to be quite helpful when he wants to. I'd still like more though.
In post 435, Metal Overlord wrote:
Honestly, no, at this point pressuring seems kinda stupid, two votes and I'm active etc. However, compared to other options, I think my lynch would be really dumb, and so trying to figure out why you're seriously going for it.Are you hopeful that I'm only trying to pressure you? That's cringe-worthy. I think you're scum and you're reading the justification.
Look, AtE and deflection all in one nice package.
In post 441, Ms Marangal wrote:Serra and I are OBV Scum buddies, and he's trying to protect me <3
and my reads are weak because I'm coasting,looking for stuff to attack.I can be passive, and I can be aggressive, but I feel like being passive especially since the only thing I'm feeling strongly about ATM is TAM
other then that BT, you don't really have a case against me.
I am noting your seemingly buddying up to Bulbazak though
and the last time I heard the phrase "this is to easy" it came from scum...
I'm defintely not seeing Rach as scum, and if I had to defend someone, it'd probably be her.
First, I do not like that phrasing. That is not town phrasing at all, and it is seriously making me doubt my town read on you.
Second, I say "This is too easy..." all the time. It means nothing alignment-wise. Afterwards, I normally go over and cry in the corner because of scum not providing a challenge.
Finished 18. On to 19.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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MO, I'm catching up as fast as I can, but I'm suffering from a bit of a fever atm, so I don't know how long that will be.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Apparently there's some poking going on. I'll get to this game tomorrow when I'm (hopefully) feeling better.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Page 19:
In post 451, Metal Overlord wrote:Sorry MS, but Cool Story Bros. Lynch me. I want you all to know what it's like to be wrong. GL mafia, but with this lot, you have nothing to fear.
Look at the beautiful AtE.
Swag?
Hacking has died down enough to get back to the chaos that is this game. Overall not much on page 19. On to page 20.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Page 20:
In post 477, Metal Overlord wrote:
Bulbazak wrote:Except if you had read through the thread, you would have gotten all the context you needed. Thus, those reads should have been all that was needed. Fact of the matter is, you went about it backwards. ISOs are nice, because they give you a bit of overview on a person's actions without reading through the thread. They're good time-wise for getting quick reads or going over your reads. However, if you want the best reads possible, you go through the entire thread, because then you get everything in context. However, you're claiming to have done the opposite: looking at context for preliminary reads and then without to finalize. Like I said, backwards. Sounds like someone got caught.
Sounds like noobtown instead of scum to me. I mean, lazy towns probably won't bother to go through the entire thread just to "get everything in context" I probably wouldn't either. Caught for laziness? Yeah. Caught for Scum? Not necessarily.
Except he said that he read through the ENTIRE thread FIRST, to get his basic reads. And THEN he ISO'd everyone to flesh his reads out. My point was that the whole process is backwards. If you have already read through the entire thread, you already have the context you need for your reads. It makes no sense to then go through the ISOs. I'm not saying he's lazy at all. I'm saying he lied.
In post 477, Metal Overlord wrote:
Bulbazak wrote:No there isn't, unless you're saying that we have a neutral party in the game, which is impossible given the setup. Therefore, null and neutral mean the exact same thing.
Bulbazak is right. There are only 2 scum factions in this game; they are either scum, not scum or unknown. Neutral = notsure = unknown = null. But despite this, I fail to see how this is a scumtell.
I never did say it was a scumtell. Your partner just wanted to argue semantics with me. However, as Titan later says, that is suspicious.
In post 477, Metal Overlord wrote:
I agree that most of your points here are true and accurate, but the problem here is that they aren't scumtells. Not at all. I have seen a majority of (bad) town players guilty of such things, one or another, and once again I repeat that bad play =/= scum. Bad play are grounds for a policy lynch, but you are incorrect that there is mounting evidence and scumtells to lynch me and my other head.
Once again I support you for your attempt at the self-vote and I support you for the useful reads and finger pointing you have done for the town.
I hope we can work together for the town. We would make a great scumhunter team. There are no night kills so I believe it is safe to play my best without fear of sniped in the night.
You're right, bad play does not equal scum, and not all of my points are scumtells, as some were just responses to KX. However, some of the major points that I did bring up ARE scumtells which point to an overall pattern of pacification and deceit. To be honest Metal Sonic, I think I would enjoy playing with you. Maybe next time we're in a game together, you might actually be town. But for now, your attempt to buddy up to me is noted.
Also liking what I see from Jennifer. And I agree with Titan's response to the MO post.
Finished page 20. On to page 21.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Page 21:
I like Titan's call to consolidate lynches, and when I'm done with these catch-up walls, I hope to do just that. Until then, I like my vote where it is.
Still like TAM for scum, but he's replacing (replaced?) out, so I'll reserve judgement for his replacement.
In post 512, Nero Cain wrote:In post 501, Titan wrote:In post 482, TheUnderachivers wrote:Let the alt think what he wants. Anyone with half a brain knows that I'm actually pretty darn good. I mean yeah, I'm pretty disappointed in myself that I'm having a hard time getting into this game. I promised Tammy a post where I'd yell at folks and I fully intend to see that through.
I'm still waiting... ...you can even yell at me if you want (once and gently) just yell and let me believe you're town, please?
but I lubs you Tammy and don't wanna yell at you. I rather yell at BT for his crap selective scumhunting or Key for being nothing more than a fluffy lurk monster or Robo for his crap vote on me or otterhorse for being a grown man that watches kids cartoons.
However, I hear that "grown man" has lady bits. Willingness to sling dirt noted.
Big words for someone who's not playing.
Finished page 21. On to page 22.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Page 22:
More scum posting from Antilles.
Nice to see that AA9 is able to distinguish bad play from scum (Well, for the most part.) That being said, I'm still not wild about KBW. If I have to, this would be my consolidation lynch.
Not much more on this page. Moving on...
Page 23:
MO's post #550 is immature. Way to make me want to play with you again guys...
UA's #556 is bad. MO's post has nothing to do with you. The blatant misrep is making UA flare up as real scummy.
In post 557, Klick wrote:
MO is probably town based on his extremely obvious desire to not get lynched. I guess he could be trying to get one mislynch through before his death, but it's much more likely that he's town. Other than that, I support this wagon the most by far.
An extreme desire to not get lynched is not a town trait, it's a scum one. While town may not want to get lynched, they view it as an opportunity to catch scum. That means they'll be examining their wagon while they're alive, and if they're about to get lynched, they will try to get their reads out. I'm not saying that town should lie down and take it, but their defense is not going to take the form of "DON'T LYNCH ME!"
And now some notes on DrippingGoofball:
In post 565, DrippingGoofball wrote:Funny story.
I started to iso the players in the list order and started with Reek and went: "whoa scum!" But I'm replacing Reek and wow, he's town.
You guys should have lynched my player slot on page 3.
I'm not sure what to make of this.
In post 566, DrippingGoofball wrote:TOWN
DrippingGoofball / Reek (hydra of Channeldelibird and Nexus)
Human destroyer
BT
Bulbazak
Klick
Metal Overlord (hydra of metal sonic and kx)
Arcangel9
LEANING TOWN
Titan (hydra of Ser Arthut Dayne and Tammy
RachMarie
Otterhorse (hydra of zoraster and Rainbowdash)
LEANING SCUM
Serrapaladin
The Underachievers (hydra of Nero Cain and Mastin2)
Robocopter87
SCUM
Antilles
ms. marangal
The Acting Method
Keybladewielder
There's really no reason given for these reads, and I can't help but notice the similarity between the majority of reads list in the town. The obvious exception being MO, who you saw as scum a mere 20 min. before:
In post 564, DrippingGoofball wrote:Post #550 feels like a scum response to me.
caveat: I have not yet read the game.
Are you saying that in 20 min. you were able to read a 23 page game and adequately develop reads on everybody? And in the same amount of time, switch reads on MO.
In post 570, DrippingGoofball wrote:In post 568, Titan wrote:why metal overlord is town?
His #384 and #477 are good posting, A lot of firm reads with proper explanations.
And I started with a negative prejudice looking at his ascii fingers reaction. But reading is iso, I think town.
The reasoning for this falls flat here. Posts#394and #477 were bad, as I explained when I addressed them both. The reasons given for the reads were weak and were based more off of playstyle than actual scumtells. Essentially, they were thrown together to placate town. Metal Sonic's posting in #477 was essentially an attempt to get me off their back by buddying up to me. Although it was well written, it was just every bit a piece of scumposting as KX's readlist and response was.
I'm reading scumbuddies from these posts. DrippingGoofball is scum, and his readslist is every bit as fake as MO's was. I was really hoping for more here.
Finished page 23. On to page 24.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Readthrough suspended until flip. This should be helpful, because I don't know what to make of the MO/UA interactions.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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A couple of notes on pages 24-25 (since they're the same):
AA9 is being incredibly OMGUSy. The RVS accusation from UA had long since passed. There was no need to dwell on it. A whole lot of overreactions, which seems to be how you play. Makes you come off as childish. It might be beneficial to chill out and realize that if people suspect you or correct you, it's not personal. It's just how the game is played. (Overreaction coming in 3...2...1...)
KBW vote switches are bad. The UA one was definitely opportunistic. The DG one was OMGUS. I think I agree with Otter here, regardless of KBW's alignment, she's anti-town and needs to be lynched.
Moving on to page 26.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Page 26:
Not liking Lurker so far. Getting very strong scum vibes from him. This post, especially, screams scum:
In post 643, TheLurker wrote:In post 639, Ms Marangal wrote:I'm not fond of the lurker right now. Might be residue from my feelings of TAM, though his opening post rubs me the wrong way.
Why are you getting any feelings from TAM? Judging from his posts, he was obviously too busy to even play, rendering the whole thing null, maybe a few defenses here and there before he replaced out. It seems more like an unrelenting tunnel than something you've actually thought about. You should probably join one of the main two wagons instead of playing obtuse and continuing a rather unbased line of voting.
Few things: 1.) TAM's posts WERE scummy. He kept making excuses for why he couldn't read, none of which felt genuine. Yet there are several posts that show he was keeping up. What this tells me was that he had no desire to scumhunt, which is scummy. 2.) We actually knew why we were voting TAM. It wasn't something we all just randomly decided to do at one point. 3.) The last sentence can be summarized as "You should stop paying attention to me and join one of the more popular wagons." The end of the sentence attempts to further discredit MM and her reasons for being on his wagon.
Yeah, that slot is scum.
Page 27:
In post 674, Metal Overlord wrote:What was I supposed to do, call you and BT scum? I wanted to delay the lynch as long as possible until most players have read my (painstakingly) written #447, which unfortunately you denounced as "scummy", before judging and making the decision to lynch me afterwards.
Yeah, I may have been wrong when I said the entire post was scummy. However, the entire point of that post was to pacify me and dismiss the scumtells I identified, without ever addressing them. So while the post may have been well reasoned and not scummy in and of itself, it's purpose was scummy in that it was to deflect focus away from the previous posts, which were scummy.
In post 674, Metal Overlord wrote:
Regarding the "reads", although I cannot deny the ones which was posted were manufactured and not really done with the sole intention of helping the town, do note that there are two heads in this hydra, with two different playstyles, and I appeal to you to create a solid read holistically by combining the reads of both heads together, and not just tunneling on a single "scumtell" from one head of what could have been a playstyle quirk.
So now I shouldn't think you're scum, because you're a hydra?
In post 674, Metal Overlord wrote:
Question for you, bulbazak. Why would you think that I would want to buddy up to you, of all players in this game? I do not deny the "buddying", and in fact I'm glad you noticed it, but there's no scum motivation if I wanted to buddy you for malicious reasons.
As you said, you felt we had similar posting styles, and that you could therefore reason with me, or in this case, talk me down. I was essentially the main proponent of your wagon. By buddying up to me, you were trying to diffuse your wagon without having to deal with the case being presented. It was self preservation, plain and simple.
On to page 28.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Page 28:
In post 677, DrippingGoofball wrote:In post 673, Bulbazak wrote:Are you saying that in 20 min. you were able to read a 23 page game and adequately develop reads on everybody? And in the same amount of time, switch reads on MO.
I never said my reads were adequately developed. It's a first impression. I much prefer to read peoplelive, while I interact with the game.
So if they were all first impression reads, with true reads coming from live experience, why did you drastically change your read on MO, when you developed a scum read of themlive?
A lot of UA's reads are based on their MO read. Doesn't mean they're false, but just that it's not an accurate way of forming reads. Then again, there are a lot of assumptions flying around. HD's post is just bad assumption-wise. I don't see a UA/MO scumteam at all. I do see a MO/DG scumteam though, which makes DG's actions chainsaw defending.
Finished page 28. On to page 29.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Page 29:
This just shows me the push to lynch UA was incredibly stupid. Their posts are screaming town here. Also, how is everybody missing all that scumposting from DG?
In post 711, Titan wrote:TUA if you're a PR please say so now b/c I'm really considering voting you.
Titan, there are no PRs in this game...
The wall about bussing from Mastin seals it. UA is town. MO/DG/Lurker are scum. Mastin, however, is wrong about Jennifer. She's town looking for a compromise lynch.
Finished page 29. On to page 30.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Page 30:
UA's post #734 looked bad until I found out that it was Nero who posted it, and not Mastin. That being said, this kind of disagreement is something that should be worked out elsewhere, and not in the thread. Otherwise, it can get confusing and may lead to a mislynch.
Page 31:
The DG scumposting is so thick... Seriously, how is no one else seeing this?
AA9 finally gets out of her snit and starts playing. I like this. I want to see more of this. This is good town play.
Page 32:
In post 779, DrippingGoofball wrote:If TUA flips scum, then I'll entertain AA9-town. If TUA flips town... AA9 eats rope.
Setting up lynches.
In post 784, DrippingGoofball wrote:In post 781, TheUnderachivers wrote:Instead, we can focus on Metal Overlord, who aside from KBW and us is the lead wagon for good reason;
This is interesting, if UA flips scum, I'd wager that KBW is scum, too. This looks likeFOS:buddy vote:towniewith the emphasis "vote" on Metal Overlord who would be the townie, and the "FOS" on KBW as expressed in "aside from" pointing to KBW-buddy.
Actually, that's not what they said at all. They said that there were currently 3 wagons: Themselves, KBW, and MO. Out of those 3, they said we should focus on MO, as there are good reasons for the wagon. Seriously DG, these misrep tactics of yours are really bad...
Finished pages 30-32. On to page 33.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Page 33:
Zdenek is giving me the warm town fuzzy feelies. Although that really doesn't surprise me as he replaced BT, and BT was a strong town read.
In post 821, DrippingGoofball wrote:Hey guys
Since you seem to be too wimpy to lynch anybody, just lynch me and put me out of my misery.
I'm a vanilla townie.
VOTE: DGB
In post 822, DrippingGoofball wrote:Boo hoo hoo
I want to give Mastin-hydra a little more time
And you know Mastin-hydra will disappear and lurk again and you'll lose focus, spin on your own heels and lynch a townie.
Let that townie be me and let's do it quickly.
Look at all the beautiful AtE.
Finished page 33. Moving on to page 34.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Page 34:
In post 833, Metal Overlord wrote:
The previous posts were written by KX, which were scummy(in your opinion, nothing is objective here). The post that I had written, was not scummy by itself, but according to the context it is scummy. So basically anything I write to defend myself against the "scummy" posts is a scum post? What do you suggest I do then? Do nothing and let everybody focus on the "scummy" posts?
The way you defended yourself was scummy. At no point do you try to discuss the points or the merits of the case, instead, you try to diffuse the situation and deflect attention away from the case by saying that you cannot be held responsible for your partner's scum posting, which is so antithetical to the game it's not funny.
In post 833, Metal Overlord wrote:
Bulbazak wrote:So now I shouldn't think you're scum, because you're a hydra?
No, what I meant to say was, you should only think I'm scum when you have garnered enough *consistent* evidence on both heads to determine that my slot is scum. For now, you have no definite proof against *me*; your main argument being that my "well-written" post was scummy because it was meant to defend my partner's posts; inextricably linking your scum reads just on my partner alone and through minimal fault of mine. For argument's sake, let's say you indeed have proof and find that my partner is "scummy", but the thing is, it could just be his playstyle you simply just disagree with. Unless you pick up a definite, independent scumtell from my very own posts(my partner's scum posts not withstanding), I believe you do not have enough evidence to judge my slot as scum.
Except your partner committed several definite scumtells that could not be excused by playstyle. Those types of scumtells I would have zeroed in on no matter who committed them. Trying to excuse scum play by saying it's a playstyle is bad and is a no defense defense. Furthermore, your defense of his play was scummy, because it was meant to deflect attention away from the scumtells instead of actually addressing them. Essentially, you didn't want to discuss the actual validity of the case, but dismiss it instead. This is a huge scumtell for me. Finally, you tried to buddy up to me as a way to get me to disregard my case. Buddying IS a scumtell. So don't say that your hydra can't be held responsible for the scum posting from one of its members, because that in and of itself is a relativist fallacy and is scummy.
In post 833, Metal Overlord wrote:
Bulbazak wrote:As you said, you felt we had similar posting styles, and that you could therefore reason with me, or in this case, talk me down. I was essentially the main proponent of your wagon. By buddying up to me, you were trying to diffuse your wagon without having to deal with the case being presented. It was self preservation, plain and simple.
You are good. The only problem which I see in the statement was that you have read my post a bit too late; but by the time you have read it my votecount had decreased from 5 to 3; independent of your reads. How do you explain that?
How does my reading the post too late invalidate my point or the fact that you buddied up to me? Me being late and a change in the vote count doesn't magically change your motives in the past. Seriously, what is this crap?
In post 836, Metal Overlord wrote:In post 835, Metal Sonic wrote:Note a TUA/Bulbazak or MO/DGB buddying
What is this? Having trouble buddying up to me so you switch tactics? First, I have no need to buddy up with UA, because I could care less what he thinks. I simply noticed in my catch up that he was posting incredibly town. The fact that we have similar reads was an afterthought. Second, even if I was scum, buddying up to UA would be the dumbest thing ever. He's not exactly obv. town, and there's no real reason I'd want him on my side. In fact, buddying up to them as scum would only serve to get me lynched.
I'm going to make this real clear so you don't misunderstand me: Having similar reads as someone or a town read on that person DOES NOT EQUAL BUDDYING! Although, you saying that I'm buddying up to them shows me that you KNOW they're town. It definitely helps my scumread of you.
Yay! I'm all caught up and stuff. I have a few more things I want to check up on, but I like my vote where it is.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Oh, I almost forgot. Rach, whatever happened to those reads that you promised?Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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I just like your partner better as a lynch. If I'd unvote just to vote you, all I'd be doing would be spreading the votes around and taking pressure off of scum. UA having the majority of the votes does not make me happy, because they're town. What we need is more votes on MO.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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In post 886, OtterHorse wrote:In post 885, Jennifer wrote:UNVOTE: TUA
VOTE: MO
I like TUA's staying in fighting against the lynch.
I would almost be fine quick lynching Jen if thats an option. While TUA is best avaiable lynch, Jen might almost be at the point where she is passing Antilles for scummiest.
Do explain.
In post 833, Metal Overlord wrote:
Except that "Scumtells" as defined by you are not set in stone. They are not like math or black-and-white, a town player can exhibit many "scumtells" which you have in your book but the slot happens to be town. If you have played enough games, you would have seen this phenomenon before. Simply, either the player sucks or has a playstyle thatdisagrees with you. Assuming that each player in a game is at a decent skill level, no player's playstyle is "bad", but whether they agree, disagree or is neutral with you. If they agree with you, it is a town tell, and if they don't you may see certain "scum tells". Once again I believe in the reality that you simply disagree with my partner's playstyle, so unless you can find evidence against me = both of us, you can't call us definite scum slot. Yes I was buddying with you, I'm glad you saw that.
No that is not how I define "scumtells", and I would appreciate you not putting words in my mouth. I rely on the same scumtells game after game, and they serve me quite well. As such, manufacturing of reads (ie. non-genuine reads) is a scumtell. Lying is a scumtell (I caught KX doing this with the read order thing. It was backward, which means that it was false, which means he was lying.). Doing something for the sole purpose of pacifying town is a scumtell. Trying to deflect the case against you, rather than confronting it, is a scumtell. Attempts to discredit a person or their case is a scumtell. Buddying is a scumtell. Need I go on?
And saying that you are not responsible for all that your slot does is ludicrous. The alignment of your slot does not magically change simply because there are 2 people playing instead of 1. The fact of the matter is that your partner was scummy and was caught. Tough luck. And maybe I backed down a little off the scumminess of your early posts because of how well-written they were. But in the end, posts are judged by the content therein, not by how pretty they are, and once I get past that, your posts are still pretty scummy.
And I have several town reads that don't agree with me, Titan and Klick being two right off the top of my head.
In post 833, Metal Overlord wrote:
It invalidates it because I was able to get the lynch off me regardless of my buddying of you or not. That said, it means that my buddying with you had little or nothing to do with the case at hand(getting the lynch off me). Why do I need to buddy up to you just to remove 1 vote from my lynch when I have successfully done so by removing 3 from mine independent of your reaction? The fact is I buddied up to you, correct. But wrong answer, the motive was not to get you off my lynch.
That logic is so backwards it hurts. That's the equivalent of saying you didn't beat up someone 3 days ago because you lost your hands NOW. Your actions do not magically change because I didn't comment on those actions until long after they were committed. You buddied up to me to diffuse a wagon and get me on your side. Just because the wagon had diffused when I finally got around to addressing you does not mean that you didn't commit those actions for those reasons.
Did I mention how bad that logic was?
Actually, I never said that. Seriously, when did I say that? What I said was that DGB was your scumbuddy and was chainsaw defending you. I beg you to get your facts straight and think things through before you misrep someone.
Seriously, why is everyone letting MO get away with such blatant scumposting? UA is town. MO is scum. Get on the ball.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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@MM: Buddying absolutely is a scumtell. Town shouldn't care what anybody thinks of them, and therefore should have no reason to buddy up to somebody. Buddying is getting on somebody's good side for the sole purpose of them liking you and hopefully not lynching you. This goes against town's main objective, which is to scumhunt. However, it plays perfectly with scum's objective, which is to survive at all costs.
Also, lying is something town should never do. Again, town should have no need to be dishonest and to outright fabricate. Can town be secretive? Yes. Should they ever lie? No.
In post 894, Metal Overlord wrote:In post 891, Bulbazak wrote:
And saying that you are not responsible for all that your slot does is ludicrous. The alignment of your slot does not magically change simply because there are 2 people playing instead of 1. The fact of the matter is that your partner was scummy and was caught. Tough luck. And maybe I backed down a little off the scumminess of your early posts because of how well-written they were. But in the end, posts are judged by the content therein, not by how pretty they are, and once I get past that, your posts are still pretty scummy.
Actually, I never said that. Seriously, when did I say that?
Hmm... How about:
In post 674, Metal Overlord wrote:
do note that there are two heads in this hydra, with two different playstyles, and I appeal to you to create a solid read holistically by combining the reads of both heads together, and not just tunneling on a single "scumtell" from one head of what could have been a playstyle quirk.
In post 833, Metal Overlord wrote: For now, you have no definite proof against *me*
In post 894, Metal Overlord wrote:
Do you deny that you have mislynched a villager once or more before just because he was exhibiting "scumtells" but wasn't actually scum?
What does this have to do with the case at hand? A few mislynches does not cancel out the successful application of certain scumtells or their validity. This is simply Correlation Implies Causation, which is a logical fallacy. I would like you to address the case by its own merits, and not try to discredit it through some other means.
You do make a decent point about possible confirmation bias. However, that would be true only if I was looking at KX scum, painted the entire slot as that, and argued that with you having no say to dissuade me. But that is not the case. I saw a player, or in this case a hydra, commit a series of scumtells, which I pointed out and voted them for. I did this with no thought whatsoever on which half of the hydra committed the tells, as it was only one slot. You were the one that brought it up and tried to use it as a defense. It's like replacing into a slot and then arguing that your predecessor's scumminess cannot be used against you. This is false, as the slot remains the same regardless of who's playing, and I've successfully lynched players who replaced in a scum slot primarily BECAUSE of their predecessor's scumminess. I recognize that the original actions were committed by your partner, and that I'm talking to you now, but the fact remains that your slot as a whole committed those scumtells, as well as others, and is therefore scummy.
In post 894, Metal Overlord wrote: I am arguing that you are against my partner and therefore my slot just because you have issues with his playstyle, and unless you can show independent evidence against me that rules out any possibility of playstyle quirks being part of the equation, you cannot indict me as scum.
Even if we were to separate everything from the context of what your partner did, you still buddied up to me, which, as I've said before, is a scumtell. You also accused me of buddying up to TUA, which implies that he is town, something that you'd only know if you were scum.
In post 894, Metal Overlord wrote:
My actions do not magically change, correct. To get you on my side? Correct. To diffuse a wagon? I've already done so! What did you have to do with the wagon when it had already diffused before you came back? It's the equivalent of removing you from the equation and still managing to diffuse the wagon, successfully.
My point being that you buddied up to me with the purpose of diffusing the wagon on you. Just because I came back at a later point to address it does not change the fact that you committed that act with that purpose at that time.
In post 894, Metal Overlord wrote:
Woops. Well I'm sorry, I meant that TUA was your almost-dead scumbuddy and you are chainsaw defending him. Does this make that better?
I love the complete 180 you've made on me. It gives me warm fuzzies to see scum flail in such an obvious manner.
Two things wrong with that:
1.) For my vote to be an OMGUS, you would have had to have voted me before I voted you, which you did not. At the very least, you should have had an extreme suspicion that I was scum, which you did not. In essence, you are desperate to discredit my case, and that includes lie about it.
2.) I do indeed have a case against you/your slot. In fact, we've been arguing about it's validity this entire time (and not its individual points). For the sake of those who do not want to read a novel to find it, I'll put it in its own separate post. Maybe then people can see there's a series of justifiable reasons to lynch your slot.
@UA: Three things about your first point against OH:
1.) RBD is female. Therefore it is not that strange for her to like MLP.
2.) What people do or do not like is inconsequential to them being scum.
3.) Let's keep this stupidity out of the thread please.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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Feel free to lynch me for not finding it funny.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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The case on MO (for those who refuse to read walls and other relevant bits of information):
1.) Their stance on policy lynches are just bad. It's not even like other players' views on PLs, where it is sometimes a necessary evil, but instead, they advocate policy lynching for the sake of policy lynching. Simply put, they'd rather policy lynch than do actual scumhunting.
2.) Their reads list was fake and not genuine at all. Its only purpose was to placate town, not to help in the scumhunting and find scum.
3.) Their reasoning for the difference in reads when confronted was completely backwards. You do not read the entire thread to get general reads and then read ISOs to solidify them through context. Simply put, they got caught faking reads and messed up on their lie to get out of it.
4.) They succumbed to the pressure on them and panicked about being lynched, although at no point were they ever in danger of being lynched. Town would have continued scumhunting, instead all they were worried about was self-preservation. This is in line more with a scum mindset than a town one.
5.) They have repeatedly tried to dismiss or discredit the case against them, rather than dealing with it. Originally this was done by trying to disassociate the two sides of the hydra. More recently, they have tried to claim that those on their wagon are on because of OMGUS, even though this is a blatant lie. As I said before, self-preservation at all costs.
6.) They buddied up to me to try to get me to drop the case against them and to get me on their side. As I've said repeatedly, buddying is a scumtell, as town has no reason to buddy, since they are too busy trying to catch scum.
7.) After they saw that they could not deter me, they did a complete 180 and started implying I was scummy for some indeterminate reason. Personally, I think they're just flailing at this point.
8.) In an effort to do so, they claimed that I was buddying up to TUA. The problem with this is that the only way I could be buddying to TUA was if I was scum and they were town. This goes against everything they've said about TUA's slot. Not only that, but it shows a knowledge of TUA's alignment, which only scum would know.
9.) After I pointed out the stupidity of the TUA buddying argument, they then backpedaled and accused me of being scumbuddies with TUA and chainsaw defending him. This would only have merit if I had been calling them scum only after the major TUA push began and they voted for TUA, however, I've been on MO as scum since before then, so I don't know where they're getting this.
In summary, MO is scum, plain and simple. So I implore everyone: Save a town. Lynch a scum-hydra.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
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In post 912, OtterHorse wrote:
Really MO-scum is only way I probably wont vote you first post day two, and not only do I think thats not the flip we would get from him - im not going to be letting him get lynched if I have anything to say about it.
Same thing, only with TUA.
Unvote
Vote Keybladewielder
We can fight more about this tomorrow.Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.- Nachomamma8, Maniacal Street Mafia
V/LA during weekends. Now leave me alone!