NY 165: A Large Normal (Game Over!)

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Nero

BTW I'm ignoring that plan.

[Ankamius]

Was my Idea Doc, and RVS is dumb actually. Jus' sayin.

The idea just makes it dumber and if anything, extends the useless portion of the game.

[Ankamius]

Unvote
Vote: TheIrishPope

He just committed by favourite

secret

scum tell.

I

think

I'm seeing what you're seeing, but I'm not really sure what makes it a scumtell.

[Ankamius]

Alright, I'm going to treat hydras that don't sign posts as a single person.

Calcifer is town.
BROseidon is scum.
Nero is town.
TheIrishPope is town, but bad town.
KingCrabd is town.
Zdenek is town.

UNVOTE: Nero
VOTE: BROseidon

[Ankamius]

Calcifer is town.
BROseidon is scum.
Nero is town.
TheIrishPope is town, but bad town.
KingCrabd is town.
Zdenek is town.

Why? Why is the distinction between town and bad town necessary?

Because TIP, despite being town, is a distraction. He needs rope if he is alive for too long.

Are you deciding that the tell you saw earlier was nothing?

Is this to me?

[Ankamius]

Is this to me?

Mhm.

I said I thought I understood what he was referring to. What I didn't understand is how that specific post was a scumtell.

[Ankamius]

Also like TiP for town.

Good good.
VOTE: TIP
obvscum

This is the most likely post. I've self-voted before in response to attention as scum before, but the situations are different enough that I'm not really sure how this specifically would be applicable to it.

[Ankamius]

Above is to Calcifer, not TIP.

[Ankamius]

Add T S O to the scum list. Comes in and tunnels with a really bad case.

Zdenek: I guess that would explain why I don't see the reasoning. Still disagree, though.

DOMO is town.
TIP is creeping down the town list. The last few posts sucked.
BROseidon is still scum.

[Ankamius]

I have no idea why you went about that in such a roundabout way when you could've just asked "Why is that self-vote a scumtell?"

That would indicate I was sure it's the self-vote.

I wasn't.

[Ankamius]

Also, finally looked at Stevie. Scumread.

BROseidon is still my biggest scumread, though. Let's run him through.

[Ankamius]

Your lack of BROseidon vote is disconcerting and I do not approve of it.

[Ankamius]

I'll write out my case just for you.

It creates a giant scum-WIFOM mess.

Basically, since we would only run up a wagon on the person who had the most votes, scum would just have to manipulate the list to make sure that that is not one of them. Let's say there are 6 scum. Any number of them just need to vote for the same person to make sure that person has more than any scum.

Beyond that, scum can list whoever the fuck they want on the list. So scum member A could list 3 other scum while scum member B lists no scum at all. Since the idea presumably would be to look back at these lists later to try to build connections, scum can manipulate that by being inconsistent/bus-heavy in their lists.

The tl;dr version is scum have information, town doesn't, that lets scum manipulate this plan to their advantage, and they have too many ways in which they can manipulate it to their advantage for us to use that later for associative tells.

This means literally nothing.

I mean, I agree that the plan was terrible (which I've already said a couple times), but this explanation of it is just plain bad. The part directly before it WOULD set up a connection, since scum trying hard enough to set up a specific townie being wagoned first can bite them in the ass later. Naturally town are just going to put whoever the fuck they want in the list too, since there's literally no information outside of that plan's existence at all that would change the lists.

But yes, small connections can be made by using these lists later. However, this plan still sucks because going by it just takes up more time and posts than just going through a regular RVS would, and the connections from those lists would be much more sketchy than just playing the game normally.

His overall point is good, but his explanation sucks.

Also Zdenek is totes right I am obviously scum.

VOTE: BROseidon

Okay. /sarcasm off.

VOTE: ProHawk

Also like TiP for town.

pedit:k

I can easily see scum doing this. I've done something similar in a recent scum game. I was the first wagon of the game and I self-voted because it was safer than responding normally; it has a higher chance of appearing scum in a reaction test.

Basically, scum paranoia.

I really really really don't think scum would care about the plan all that much.
But hey, at least this pegs you as likely town.

I don't think fucking with ProHawk's plan would take any planning for scum to WIFOM the fuck out of.

Also I'm going to assume that vote is serious, and I have no idea why you would vote there. Why Ank over any of the other people who've posted relatively little?

I kinda thought I might get some feedback about this. Nacho? Anybody?

I don't get what you two are seeing in 41. If either you or Nacho would explain it, then I would be able to have an opinion about whether or not you're right.

I don't get what you two are seeing in 41. If either you or Nacho would explain it, then I would be able to have an opinion about whether or not you're right.

Nacho's reason may be a little different. The thing that I picked up on was an awkward indirectness. "I think I see what you are seeing", rather than "Is it because of X?" or something similar. This looks scummy to me because I see scum do this way more often than town, like they are afraid that they'll have the wrong "answer" about why the post in question looks bad.

Town players don't worry about having the wrong answer - they worry about getting something useful back, and tend to be more direct as a result.

This reasoning is solid. Do you think that Ank is the best lynch right now?

I shouldn't have to explain why this is awful.

[Ankamius]

Or.

We could get a scumflip off of BROseidon today.

Then tomorrow, we nuke T S O or Stevie.

Sounds like a better plan to me.

[Ankamius]

lol

[Ankamius]

Yes, sheep the slot that is voting me for literally one post and has spent half his ISO doing nothing but tunneling me for it while giving virtually no other reads worth anything.

Bravo, TIP. Bravo.

This is even after the only thing you've ever said about me was stating I was a town read AFTER the scum read on me was explained. That vote is literally retarded.

[Ankamius]

You're not reading the thread if you think I haven't addressed what was thrown at me.

[Ankamius]

Butthurt much?

Really annoyed, yes.

[Ankamius]

Or.

We could get a scumflip off of BROseidon today.

Then tomorrow, we nuke T S O or Stevie.

Sounds like a better plan to me.

In other words, two of the top three suspected people today. You're piling on the the top wagons so that you don't have explain your cases and you don't stand out.

AFAIK I'm the only person who has justified any scum read on BROseidon. If I'm not, then I'm the only relatively recent one.

Calcifer is town.
BROseidon is scum.
Nero is town.
TheIrishPope is town, but bad town.
KingCrabd is town.
Zdenek is town.

Why? Why is the distinction between town and bad town necessary?

Because TIP, despite being town, is a distraction. He needs rope if he is alive for too long.

ISO'd Ank. Don't see anything scummy and I don't get the wagon on him at all.

So you didn't think it was scummy that Ankamius justified the lynch of someone he thought he was town for being a "distraction?"

Okay, this is an awful thing to think I'm scum for.

Of course I'm going to be thinking about what's best for LYLO, because not doing so can easily screw us over if we ever reach it. I do believe TIP is town, but I also believe that if he's alive when we're in LYLO or close to LYLO, his existence will cause more harm than good for us.

I'm pretty sure Mastin can confirm that I can hold this stance as town. He's seen me do it before (albeit that part of the game was removed in the 2011 crash >_>).

---

I haven't forgot about Calcifer. I'll respond later; just short of time right now and this was faster to respond to.

[Ankamius]

Actually, I can't even remember if I held that stance ever in that game.

Eh, it doesn't matter. I can prove it's at most a null tell in my case.

[Ankamius]

Whoa, did anyone else catch Ankamius' shameless buddying/self-meta/calling-self-Town bit in 328? I wasn't sold on Ankamius as scum before, but that's definitely shifting my opinion in that direction

Actually, I'm arguing that it's a null-tell.

[Ankamius]

I have no idea why you went about that in such a roundabout way when you could've just asked "Why is that self-vote a scumtell?"

That would indicate I was sure it's the self-vote.

I wasn't.

1.

What else could it have been?

Also, finally looked at Stevie. Scumread.

BROseidon is still my biggest scumread, though. Let's run him through.

2.

Why?

His overall point is good, but his explanation sucks.

3.

Why does that make him scum?
(It doesn't.)

I can easily see scum doing this. I've done something similar in a recent scum game. I was the first wagon of the game and I self-voted because it was safer than responding normally; it has a higher chance of appearing scum in a reaction test.

Basically, scum paranoia.

4.

Why is it more likely to be coming from scum as opposed to be coming from town?

I shouldn't have to explain why this is awful.

5.

Did you expect me not to ask you why you didn't like those posts?

I didn't realize that Stevie was coming from another site. Will reevaluate him with this in mind.

Erm, not another site. Another time.

1. Practically anything else TIP had said up to that point. He's one of the few players I've ever seen that really could have a compelling case built on them no matter what they say.

2. Why to what, the first question? Stevie's first scum list was pretty bad, his case on Nero was pretty bad.

3. Because he tried to spin the plan being bad into a case against ProHawk. The plan in itself wasn't scummy, since it really wasn't something scum could take any significant advantage of. Him trying to make it sound like they could just puts red flags in my head.

4. It's an easy way to look town without much risk. If you respond to the wagon, you risk looking even more scummy and having more people pile onto the wagon. It's the same logic that caused the example up above.

5. Just look at how it progresses. First he's curious as to why me over all the other people who haven't posted much, then he's openly confused as to why I'm being suspected, then he accepts the case as good, but both doesn't vote for me

AND

asks if Rift thinks this is the best lynch (which is a really dumb question regardless because look at where Rift's vote is). This reeks of cautiousness is jumping onto the bandwagon and makes me think he's worried that his switch from being overly confused about it to jumping on it would raise eyebrows.

[Ankamius]

Oh derp, somehow I missed this

Happy Birthday, Ankimius!

Danke!

[Ankamius]

DOMO is town, but I really don't like full reads posts.

[Ankamius]

I learned the hard way that scum gets a lot more out of full reads lists than town does.

[Ankamius]

Yeah, well, the last large game I played, I was basically targeted for death by the entire scum team N1, but completely left alone (and even saved as much as possible by them) after that because I made my reads really clear after that and I had quite a few of them as town. Keeping them uncertain what I thought of them would likely have made them a lot more paranoid of me since I had a very strong role.

The reads didn't even help town since the only ones that really mattered at that point were my scumreads.

So yes, I disapprove of full reads posts now.

[Ankamius]

I'm going to headdesk so hard if that's a legitimate kill.

[Ankamius]

How do you know Hollywood is town?

The scumclaim in general gave me a town vibe. and his response to the daykill didn't hurt that.

[Ankamius]

As someone who was in LoL mafia, I'm not really convinced about Dram-meta in that case. Most of his content in that game was more on the setup than actual reads and other things. Honestly, he might have done exactly the same thing he's doing here if LoL mafia didn't start off with something he had strong feelings against.

Yay tablet posting.

[Ankamius]

As someone who was in LoL mafia, I'm not really convinced about Dram-meta in that case. Most of his content in that game was more on the setup than actual reads and other things. Honestly, he might have done exactly the same thing he's doing here if LoL mafia didn't start off with something he had strong feelings against.

Yay tablet posting.

Yeah I noticed that there was a set-up argument on day 1 of the LoL game. I think the Gay II game is probably a better baseline for his town game. Did you look at the other two games? What are your thoughts on them?

I quickly breezed through his ISO and found that he played basically the same early on in both of them. I'm not really convinced by either.

Yeah, he posted less often in the scum game, but the post amounts that happened between his posts weren't really high for me to find that very telling. It looked like a relatively inactive game regardless.

I'd need much bigger specifics to really get a read off of meta either way. I don't really take meta tells to be very strong, and generally I find them to be null anyways. I don't bother.

[Ankamius]

My last post must've been deleted. Either that or I posted this in a different game and am thinking wrong.

Anyway, I've been getting lost in this game and will need to get my momentum back. Day 1 is always the hardest day to play through. >_>

[Ankamius]

And now I've lost all my motivation to try catching up today.

[Ankamius]

Alright, content. I'm going to operate mostly on memory and from what I've skimmed for the past week. It doesn't help that I accidently got into more games than I planned, and the downtime screwed up my mojo. I'll get things done, though.

UNVOTE: BROseidon <- I'm not really into this anymore. Nothing he's done recently has pinged me at all.

My strongest read in the most discussed camp is on Dramonic; I'm not convinced at all on this.
I like putting Orc, Domo, Bulbafenix, Rift Adrift, and Zdenek in the town pile for the moment while I force myself to catch up with what's going on. I see there's cases to some extent on Bulba and Zdenek, but I'll get to those later.

I'm really okay with lynching Serene whenever. He's 5x worse than TIP in terms of being a distraction.

It's going to be a real struggle to find anything concrete that isn't meta, will it?

Unsure about Stubbs right now; not really into a Stevie lynch.

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Serene

This slot is pure noise, and might as well have my vote doing something remotely sensible while I waddle through the game.

[Ankamius]

Right. Well, then.

UNVOTE: Serene

The claim is believable enough. I'm not going to consider them near-confirmed town yet, but they can join the town pile. until the claim is proven one way or the other.

[Ankamius]

Fuck, catching up is harder than I originally thought it would be.

What's the case on BulbaFenix? That would be a good place to start pinning down some updated reads.

[Ankamius]

It's Fate, isn't it.

I'm going to be deeply disappointed if it's Fate.

I doubt it is, though.

[Ankamius]

Right, just going to start at the top of page 50 and ignore everything before it unless I have to go earlier. Otherwise, I'm never going to catch up.

Dram #1227 town but god damn it more please

Serene #1234 what why is this relevant

Calcifer #1242 I'm lost on this

Metal Sonic #1247 town

BulbaFenix #1251 town

TMTOLBTWNTOF #1260 getting some weird vibes off this

Zdenek #1271 weird vibes

Calcifer #1283 weird vibes

Calcifer #1302 looks unnecessarily wishy-washy

Zdenek #1332 weird vibes

TheIrishPope #1354 is just straight up bad

orcinus+Serene debate is painfully null and went on for too long

DOMO #1447 is spot on. All the bickering and ridiculous debates is just making it harder to find the motivation to read back. I started doing a read a couple days ago, but FIVE new pages showed up while I slept. I know most of it's going to be useless garbage, but it's making me not want to read through regardless.

Done at the end of page 58.

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Calcifer

I'm getting those weird vibes almost half the time he posts now. I would post an actual case, but I'm not interested in having to read another ten damn pages of virtually nothing while I make it.

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Calcifer

I'm getting those weird vibes almost half the time he posts now. I would post an actual case, but I'm not interested in having to read another ten damn pages of virtually nothing while I make it.

how do you read stevie?

Vague memory is some sort of null. I'm pretty sure I found town and scum motivation in his posts. His lurking is null.

[Ankamius]

Nero/Serene

For the last god damn time, stop filling the thread with useless shit. You've been literally going in circles for the past 30 pages and making the thread really hard to read.

[Ankamius]

Nero/Serene

For the last god damn time, stop filling the thread with useless shit. You've been literally going in circles for the past 30 pages and making the thread really hard to read.

okay


you're scum.


let's discuss that.

Feel free to make a case.

[Ankamius]

Serene, you realize that this thread is really hard to read, right? Finding motivation to read anything here is impossible.

When it comes to Ank, I didn't like that basically just calls stuff "weird," so he's not actually attacking anyone or calling anyone scummy - it's a very safe way to play.

I didn't go into any detail because I wanted to get notes on as much of the game down as possible. If I had done any explaining whatsoever, I would've maybe gotten through 2 pages.

I'll start expanding on points later.

[Ankamius]

Right. Well, then.

UNVOTE: Serene

The claim is believable enough. I'm not going to consider them near-confirmed town yet, but they can join the town pile. until the claim is proven one way or the other.

What exactly made the claim believable?

How does one prove a mason claim without one of us dying? And for that matter, my own death proves me town anyway. So no one is confirmed until dead? Or?

Dramonic's response made it believable.

Those questions are literally useless. The only way it CAN be proven is by death (or copping both of them, but that's a waste of time). All the last statement really said is that both you and dramonic are in the town pile for the claim until one of you flips.

[Ankamius]

VOTE: DOMO

[Ankamius]

VOTE: DOMO

Ank, where have you been floating lately?

Been trying to get reads to settle in my head the past couple of days. I looked around a bit and didn't find a whole lot; not really that difficult with all the nonsense in the thread.

The game's still moving pretty damn fast, but a lot of it is just talk that isn't really alignment-indicative either way. I'll probably look into ProHawk sometime tomorrow to see if anyone's interactions with him stand out.

[Ankamius]

"Been trying to get reads to settle in my head the past couple of days."

For the past two days I've been lurking hard and have no reads whatsoever, sorry. I've even been scum-QT-prod. My head is dizzy and overly medicated and I have spells of amnesia and uncontrollable epileptic fits.

"I looked around a bit and didn't find a whole lot; not really that difficult with all the nonsense in the thread."

It's not my fault, it's your fault.

"The game's still moving pretty damn fast"

Being scum makes me lazy, don't expect reads anytime until the Apocalypse.

"but a lot of it is just talk that isn't really alignment-indicative either way"

Buddhascum says: "There is no good nor evil, only reincarnation into slime molds."

"I'll probably look into ProHawk sometime tomorrow to see if anyone's interactions with him stand out."

And by "probably" I mean "never" and I hope you'll soon forget that I made this promise. See you in LYLO, suckers!

Whenever a game moves really fast, I get lost really easily. It takes me a few in-game days to be calibrated in a large game.

[Ankamius]

Whenever a game moves really fast, I get lost really easily. It takes me a few in-game days to be calibrated in a large game.

I take it that you usually play elsewhere or under a different name, because there's precious little evidence of this in other larges that you've been in.

Nope. The first one was a while back, but good luck getting anything from that one. Everything before Day 4 was lost in the 2011 crash. I managed to stay afloat more easily because I was playing in a hydra.

LoL Mafia was a lot more readable than this game was. Day two was a real struggle for me (seriously, go look.), but Day 1 worked since I was able to latch onto a strong read and ride that to the end of the day. I only started being an active contributor after I looked at each player individually, but I'm not going to do that here. I'm not searching through mountains of garbage meta posts.

[Ankamius]

Ok reads regarding ProHawk's death:

Doc Holliday (Cephrir) is town
Broseidon is scum
Calcifer is probably town
Dramonic is slightly scummy

I remember I was doubting my read on BROseidon but I forgot why

[Ankamius]

Axe the BROseidon read; a closer look made the point null.

Doc Holliday blatantly showed he didn't really read very well; shows more town than scum.
Calcifer went along with the plan at first (notably after two people condemned it), then hopped right off. Looks really awkward from a scum standpoint and I don't see one being so obvious about it.
Dramonic's vote on Calcifer feels off. Minor point.

[Ankamius]

I should have made myself more clear the first time. Those aren't my total reads on the players, just what direction the reads went with it.

I didn't say Cephrir was scum...? I was talking specifically about the first post, by the way.

Calcifer posted that right smack in the middle of the condemnation of the plan. I think scum would have been more cautious of following it so easily once it had started.

Partially because I forgot, and partially because YOLO

[Ankamius]

Then why bring it up, especially since Dramonic had claimed mason, which should have influenced your reads?

Isn't this hydra suggesting serene is scum? Shouldn't that effect your read on dramonic?

Bulba has a point though. Ank is saying dramonic is "slightly scummy", yet he hardly mentions serene in his entire ISO. Serene is way scummier than dramonic, if you're going to point the finger at one of the masons, it's gonna be serene. Very strange to call dramonic scummy without giving any consideration whatsoever to serene.

vote ankamius

Are you fucking serious with this post? This is the single most bullshit thing I've read this entire day phase so far.

Confirm vote: DOMO

[Ankamius]

I think bulbafenix is scum too, I'm willing to put my vote back there. I'm finding it hard to find a winning scum strategy after fakeclaiming mason on day one. Serene and dram are masons. If anyone wants to argue otherwise then please, by all means, show us how they can expect to win and I might entertain the idea. For now they are confirmed town and should be treated as such, as much as that pains me after the way serene has been playing.

pedit - bulba's slip?

Yeah, this guy's scum.

[Ankamius]

Just to be clear, I can't find "ank" at all in prohwak's ISO.

What does this have to do with anything?

[Ankamius]

BulbaFenix is probably town. That 'slip' looks like it's being stretched so far, you should shove up two people's asses when they're 3 miles apart.

[Ankamius]

Nice OMGUS. How exactly am I scum there ank? Because I realise why they're masons?

If anything, you're the one that OMGUSed.

That post I voted you for reeked. Hard. I had literally just gotten done saying that those were not as much reads as direction those reads were going. I made it specifically clear I was looking at the first few pages of the game, long before Serene ever replaced in. The logic train you base on these two completely derp statements looks really bad.

So yes, I confirm voted. As you might have noticed, I had my vote on you long before this.

[Ankamius]

What does the lack of "ank" in prohawk's ISO have to do with anything? I happen to think serene found a slip with bulba's "hitting his stride" comment. How would bulba know hawk was hitting his stride? It does indeed suggest bulba knows that hawk was sniffing out his buddies. Thus, the lack of "ank" in hawk's ISO suggests that we shouldn't swing for you if bulba flips scum, because hawk wasn't exactly onto you ank. It's entirely relevant if you actually read my three quickposts together in context.

So basically, because of that garbage slip logic, I'm more than likely town if bulba is scum because a confirmed town didn't mention me at all.

I don't see how that works, even if the 'slip' wasn't bad.

[Ankamius]

Any particular reason you quoted that huge post with nothing added onto it?

[Ankamius]

I agree with Domo that it's weird Ank does not address Serene, while claiming Dramonic is scum. Those 2 are connected due to their mason claim.

This was addressed. Read my ISO again please.

[Ankamius]

Ok

reads regarding ProHawk's death

:

Doc Holliday (Cephrir) is town
Broseidon is scum
Calcifer is probably town
Dramonic is slightly scummy

I remember I was doubting my read on BROseidon but I forgot why

I should have made myself more clear the first time.

Those aren't my total reads on the players, just what direction the reads went with it.

I didn't say Cephrir was scum...? I was talking specifically about the first post, by the way.

Calcifer posted that right smack in the middle of the condemnation of the plan. I think scum would have been more cautious of following it so easily once it had started.

Partially because I forgot, and partially because YOLO

I specifically didn't look beyond the first 3-4 pages, so mentioning Serene would've been a lot weirder than not.

[Ankamius]

Okay. I don't really see the point of your post then. Why bother sharing read directions? It's your full read that matters.

So what's your full read on dramonic and Serene?

Because I'm posting specifically about that point in the game.

They're either town or scum, but they're town until proven scum. My own read on that doesn't change it.

[Ankamius]

@Calcifer:

Nice OMGUS. How exactly am I scum there ank? Because I realise why they're masons?

If anything, you're the one that OMGUSed.

That post I voted you for reeked. Hard. I had literally just gotten done saying that those were not as much reads as direction those reads were going. I made it specifically clear I was looking at the first few pages of the game, long before Serene ever replaced in. The logic train you base on these two completely derp statements looks really bad.

So yes, I confirm voted. As you might have noticed, I had my vote on you long before this.

[Ankamius]

how does he lean town on us but have no read on dram?

This is not a scumtell, and it wasn't the last 50 times you brought it up.

The rest would have more info. I'll take a closer look at Stevie's reads later.

[Ankamius]

Why are you defending Stevie?

I'm specifically fighting a broken record of a point that doesn't mean anything, but go ahead and think that if you want to.

the point is, he has no read on one mason but leans town on the other

This type of logic only works if both are listed but in different categories. Not listing one at all while mentioning the other means jack shit.

[Ankamius]

This type of logic only works if both are listed but in different categories. Not listing one at all while mentioning the other means jack shit.

Explain to me how not claiming a read on a living player means jack shit.

I'm glad you decided to omit the fact that the person you're talking about is the second half of a mason pair, since generalizing that just makes this a misrep.

Of fucking course only mentioning one person in a mason pair means jack shit. Their alignments are linked together, so mentioning both or just one means exactly the same thing.

[Ankamius]

You literally asked me to explain something that was irrelevant to what I said before.

That's at best deflecting.

[Ankamius]

THE MEANING COMPLETELY CHANGED BY OMITTING IT

YOU LITERALLY ASKED ME SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT

HOLY FUCK

[Ankamius]

I'm arguing against a shit point.

[Ankamius]

I WANTED TO FUCKING KNOW WHY THE HELL HE OMITTED THE READ ON A PLAYER


ANY PLAYER AT ALL


ESPECIALLY A MASONIC PARTNER

This is literally the first time this detail was brought up.

[Ankamius]

I never once voted Stevie this entire game.

Try again.

[Ankamius]

K, this is pointless.

UNVOTE: DOMO
VOTE: ThirdKoopa

[Ankamius]

READS CHANGE BRO

THEY CHANGED

GO READ MY ISO AND YOU WILL SEE THIS

[Ankamius]

This type of logic only works if both are listed but in different categories. Not listing one at all while mentioning the other means jack shit.

Explain to me how not claiming a read on a living player means jack shit.

Look at this post again. Then think about what I've been saying.

That's all I'm saying about this ridiculous argument.

[Ankamius]

Why did you decide to defend him?

Why did you suddenly pop your head in and make a weak counterargument against a player that you've done nothing but call null at best and scum at worst?

First point is wrong. I literally decided to post just to attack a point that's been brought up several times before now.

[Ankamius]

You seem to not have noticed that I went from wanting Stevie's head to not being into a Stevie lynch EIGHT HUNDRED AND FIFTY POSTS later

That's a really big stretch, bro

[Ankamius]

My ISO is my notes.

I ISOed my self today.

[Ankamius]

Fuck don't tell me DOMO is somehow town.

[Ankamius]

What the hell just happened.

[Ankamius]

Posting reads because I feel like it

I like Zdenek/Cephrir/Crabd/Rift/Stubbs for town because town posts.
I like Baby Spice for town because fuck yeah reads.

DOMO/Goat/TMTOLBTWNTOF is probably scum. Most likely 2 of the three.

The rest is idk

[Ankamius]

UNVOTE: ThirdKoopa
VOTE: DOMO

Now watch as I get quickhammered by the legion of thirdkoopa unvoters.

[Ankamius]

Reason for what.

[Ankamius]

My memory being shit.

UNVOTE: DOMO
VOTE: TMTOLMEIOMSODMLKF

[Ankamius]

My memory being shit.

UNVOTE: DOMO
VOTE: TMTOLMEIOMSODMLKF

uh........

What?

I had completely forgotten that I had made a note to myself earlier about DOMO. I only found it when searching through my ISO for my notes on him.

[Ankamius]

Whatever, even though I probably won't be able to get my action off anymore.

I'm a two-shot cop. If it wasn't obvious already, I investigated Baby Spice last night and got town. I choose people I have trouble getting any reads on whatsoever to inspect.

[Ankamius]

I also find it pretty funny that both of the posts I used to hint at it this day phase got attacked.

[Ankamius]

VOTE: DOMO

Ank, where have you been floating lately?

Been trying to get reads to settle in my head the past couple of days. I looked around a bit and didn't find a whole lot

; not really that difficult with all the nonsense in the thread.

The game's still moving pretty damn fast, but a lot of it is just talk that isn't really alignment-indicative either way. I'll probably look into ProHawk sometime tomorrow to see if anyone's interactions with him stand out.

[Ankamius]

VOTE: DOMO

Ank, where have you been floating lately?

Been trying to get reads to settle in my head the past couple of days. I looked around a bit and didn't find a whole lot

; not really that difficult with all the nonsense in the thread.

The game's still moving pretty damn fast, but a lot of it is just talk that isn't really alignment-indicative either way. I'll probably look into ProHawk sometime tomorrow to see if anyone's interactions with him stand out.

So you didn't breadcrumb your results until today.

I don't see how I could have crumbed a result on BS back then without making it obvious.

[Ankamius]

maybe he's scum idk feeling more useful voting him

What the fuck is this.

[Ankamius]

maybe he's scum idk feeling more useful voting him

What the fuck is this.

u could be scum

UNVOTE: TMAMTIOEIMTOSLKMT
VOTE: Marquis

The last few lines of posts by this guy are hilariously ad.

[Ankamius]

Yeah because nobody in the game has ever posted a reads list unless they were being seriously bandwagoned.

Oh wait

That was my first post in Day 2.

You know... right after the giant shitstorm at the second half of Day 1 ended.

[Ankamius]

ThirdKoopa: Here's your target tonight ---^

[Ankamius]

That was literally just a "don't care" post. I didn't even count that.

[Ankamius]

Two-shot cop? Removing WIFOM, you're probably sane, but iunno. It seems weird to have another two-shot role. I'm curious to this: Why'd you investigate Baby Spice? (Assuming you're telling the truth)

VOTE: BROseidon

i'm okay with this

Because I hadn't had a single post of hers give me any kind of read whatsoever.

Marquis is so obviously not cop. If he was pseudo-CCing me, he would have gone full retard from the beginning in calling me scum instead of going "OMG THIS IS SCUM or maybe kinda could be scum..." within a minute.

[Ankamius]

The other problem I have with it, not to outguess the mod, but Cop is usually a role that can go on without being limited. Full Vig, on the other hand, could screw up an entire scum team in the right hands or screw a game over for town in the wrong hands.

Then again, I see little benefit (Unless he were Mafia) in lying about it.

My guess is that town probably has a lot of power roles, so reducing the effectiveness of a few of them would balance the game better.

[Ankamius]

Me investigating someone I can't get a read on in game is a bad idea, apparently

Who would have thought.

[Ankamius]

BTW why is claiming right after Koopa did bad, exactly? I'm pretty sure everyone would be even more pissed off if I was nightkilled N2 without giving any hints whatsoever of my target.

[Ankamius]

BTW why is claiming right after Koopa did bad, exactly? I'm pretty sure everyone would be even more pissed off if I was nightkilled N2 without giving any hints whatsoever of my target.

I thought your reads list was supposed to be a hint.

What does this even mean.

[Ankamius]

BTW why is claiming right after Koopa did bad, exactly? I'm pretty sure everyone would be even more pissed off if I was nightkilled N2 without giving any hints whatsoever of my target.

I thought your reads list was supposed to be a hint.

What does this even mean.

Well, presumably if you died N2, we would have gone back through your posts and found your reads list and noticed how emphatic your read on baby spice was. That's usually the point of a breadcrumb. Crumbs you can point back and say "oh see I crumbed my role on day 1" are kinda dumb IMO but that's probably due to where I grew up playing mafia.

I never once mentioned Baby Spice before the fake hammer.

[Ankamius]

BTW why is claiming right after Koopa did bad, exactly? I'm pretty sure everyone would be even more pissed off if I was nightkilled N2 without giving any hints whatsoever of my target.

I thought your reads list was supposed to be a hint.

What does this even mean.

Well, presumably if you died N2, we would have gone back through your posts and found your reads list and noticed how emphatic your read on baby spice was. That's usually the point of a breadcrumb. Crumbs you can point back and say "oh see I crumbed my role on day 1" are kinda dumb IMO but that's probably due to where I grew up playing mafia.

I never once mentioned Baby Spice before the fake hammer.

You say that like it's a good thing. :/

This is a really elaborate way of dodging the original question.

I asked you why posting a reads list after Koopa claimed was bad. The resulting conversation from you dodging the question literally proved nothing but the fact that my investigation result from N1 would never have been known if I hadn't posted that and flipped tonight.

[Ankamius]

How awkward that Metal Sonic replaces back into his old slot now that it's pretty obviously scum.

[Ankamius]

By the way, shooting Baby Spice is a scumtell. Don't do it.

[Ankamius]

Also, can we try to spam the thread less. Spamming up the thread this much only helps scum. I abused the fuck out of other people spamming up the thread in Xenoblade and I'd rather not let scum do the same here.

^

A whole five pages were made in a few hours. I'm not going to go read all of it (I read two pages and skimmed the rest) because wow, really? I did read a few tidbits I want to respond to though:

1. Voting for Baby Spice D3 (if I live through the night) is literally the scummiest thing you can do. Making an argument for a Godfather isn't convincing either.
2. Less posts overall. Two slots have NEARLY A WHOLE THIRD of the thread in posts. The fact that there's a lot of walls isn't helping anything either. Going after people for not contributing is absolutely ridiculous when the same six people are just pumping out constant posts and practically going in circles for 50 pages. I have very weak reads on half of the playerlist because a very small percentage is drowning them out.
2.5. I'm still ignoring every single wall that gets made.
3. I'm on board with the idea for reducing my inspect pool. Reduce it a little further by focusing more on the null side and we'll be golden.

[Ankamius]

Also, yes, the Shadi townreads based on that 'fake vengeful' look really half-assed to me. It looks mostly reliant on meta (which is inherently null to me anyway), but it doesn't even look particularly town motivated. It looks more alignment-neutral.

[Ankamius]

I'm not convinced at all about inspecting either of the masons. If they're faking it, they're going to get caught regardless.

[Ankamius]

VOTE: TMTOLSDFJROEIMT

THE HOLY FORCE OF JUSTICE WILL SEND THIS MAN TO THE GRAVE TODAY

[Ankamius]

Yes.

[Ankamius]

Both the kill and my investigation went through, so I really doubt there's a scum roleblocker.

[Ankamius]

@Mod: I will be V/LA for the next few days.

[Ankamius]

Ok well seeing as koopa was quick to claim the stevie kill, and no-one has countered, I think we can safely say koopa is confirmed.

Ankamius - claimed cop
Serene - claimed mason
Thirdkoopa - confirmed vig
dramonic - claimed mason
Baby Spice - cleared by ank

orcinus_theoriginal - town read
KingCrabd - town read
Rift Adrift - town read

TMTOLBTWNTOF - scum

That leaves...

Cephrir, Slandaar, StubbsKVM, jon_h61, BROseidon, Shadi1337, Baezu.

I'm assuming there's at least 5 scum left to find, and based on claims and townreads, I've narrowed them down to a pool of 7. I don't have a great deal of faith in this, looks to me like we have either a bullshit claim or scum in my townreads. If all the scum are in this group, they have to kill off the claims or leaders. But they didn't.

I think there's at least one from each faction in the town bloc, because neither faction felt any urgency regarding trimming the town bloc down. koopa is confirmed now. ank, I'm not so sure about him. He was in trouble when he claimed, so he could be taking TMT down with him. The masons, I just still can't believe they'd fakeclaim like that on day one.

So right now I'm thinking two of ank, rift, orc and kingcrabd,
and probably 3 in Cephrir, Slandaar, StubbsKVM, jon_h61, BROseidon, Shadi1337, Baezu.

I'll tear the thread to pieces when we get more flips.

Okay, now my DOMO read is flipping towards town again. There's some good analysis there that I agree with.

At this point, I'm leaning towards Mafia + SK over Multiball. Actually, it makes a lot of sense that if this is true, the SK and at least one scum is in this group.

Me claiming cop and getting a buddy lynched as scum is basically VI play. It would've been a lot safer and less damaging to the team for me to claim another innocent.

[Ankamius]

Dramonic has done literally nothing all game. This is compared to all the people like me who haven't done jack shit all game.

[Ankamius]

FoS Shadi1337

[Ankamius]

TMTEOSTIOESWMT hasn't said anything today sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[Ankamius]

Oh, I forgot to cancel my V/LA in this thread. Derp.

Is there anything specifically needed from me right now? Reads? Comments? Etc.? I noticed there were four new pages since I last checked the thread, so I just skimmed them.

[Ankamius]

And suddenly Jon is back in my scumreads.

[Ankamius]

@Jon: The "bah" part of your post reeks.

A lot.

[Ankamius]

Wow.

Are you fucking kidding me.

Wow.

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Dramonic

I see no way Dramonic is town here.

[Ankamius]

Okay, I'm going to post some thoughts shortly.

[Ankamius]

Town:

Baby Spice
KingCrabd
DOMO
BROseidon
Thirdkoopa

Null:

Serene
Shadi1337
StubbsKVM
Rift Adrift

Scum:

dramonic
penguin_alien
Baezu
jon_h61

[Ankamius]

Lynching Baby Spice for info is literally stupid.

[Ankamius]

BTW I believe Crabd's claim.

[Ankamius]

I'm willing to let those concerns pass for the moment. We're not at the point where worrying about that should be a significant issue yet.

I'm more sure he's a town roleblocker than scum roleblocker either way.

[Ankamius]

I'd like to hear a case on Serene, honestly. I would also consider lynching jon or babyspice, given the new information that she may be godfather. I think a babyspice flip would also give us a lot of information and is less likely to be a mislynch.

This is a lot of my reason for Baezu-scum.

[Ankamius]

Hrm. I didn't think I was in prod range already. Apologies.

I would like to see the VCA as well, mainly the vote counts. I might just make them myself and go look at them.

[Ankamius]

BTW Stevie died.

[Ankamius]

I agree that we should 100% lynch from the VTs.

Baezu, StubbsKVM, Shadi, and Serene are my preferences. I have townreads on all the other VTs (including BROseidon if he claims VT).

[Ankamius]

V/LA Friday to Tuesday

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Baezu

I can support this enough. Stubbs wagon looks just okay.

[Ankamius]

I'm not supportive of a Crabd wagon.

[Ankamius]

I got innocent on Baby Spice N1 and guilty on TMEIOWTNOUMSDMTIOM N2

[Ankamius]

I would've posted here by now, but trying to read anything from this game is giving me a headache.

[Ankamius]

Okay, this game is getting a little easier to understand now.

I don't think Serene is SK. The mason gambit as an SK would be the worst play of the century and I'm willing to give the slot a bit more credit than that. I can see them being mafia, though.
I do think Crabd is scum.

VOTE: KingCrabd

PEdit: Okay, let me know when the post spam ends so I can start trying to read again.

[Ankamius]

I don't think Serene is SK. The mason gambit as an SK would be the worst play of the century and I'm willing to give the slot a bit more credit than that. I can see them being mafia, though.

soooooo


you think we're scum


with crabd?


and you vote him?

Ankamius, you do realize that two of those hydra heads claimed to be MASONS WITH EACH OTHER as SCUM once.

I don't understand the relevance of this.

[Ankamius]

Okay, that's two people that got the wrong idea from my post.

I don't think Serene is SK. The mason gambit as an SK would be the worst play of the century and I'm willing to give the slot a bit more credit than that. I can see them being mafia, though.

This is literally just me saying that I don't see them as an SK. I said nothing about a town or scum read.

Im saying that these hydra heads have a KNOWN META of making risky scum plays by CLAIMING MASONS WITH EACH OTHER AS SCUM. Your townread on them is bad.

And I'm asking how them claiming masons as a scumpair is relevant to them claiming a mason pair with a town player. Those are two completely different situations and I don't see the link between them.

[Ankamius]

I'm not convinced they're mafia just from that if they're known to be risky players, which you have just claimed.

[Ankamius]

The fact that they claimed Masons with Dramonic is a completely null point and I could see them doing that as any alignment.

...

Okay then.

[Ankamius]

SK hunting is not in our best interests at all right now. It really shouldn't be difficult to find out who it is with a little more information, so there's no real point in doing it right now. Either way, a Crabd lynch at minimum gives us some good info.

If he's a town roleblocker, then Serene and Stubbs are our targets tomorrow.

[Ankamius]

...

That was meant to be a preview hit.

Anyway, if he's scum roleblocker, then the SK is likely one of those two. I'd bet on Stubbs.

[Ankamius]

Ank especially should vote me since if I'm SK, I'm killing him tonight

It's a good thing I think you're not the SK, then.

[Ankamius]

SK hunting is not in our best interests at all right now. It really shouldn't be difficult to find out who it is with a little more information, so there's no real point in doing it right now.

[Ankamius]

Eh, I just realized that doesn't directly answer it.

I don't know who the SK is right now and I'm not really interested in trying to find out who at this time.

[Ankamius]

I have a very hard time believing that someone who loses the instant they're lynched would make that much of a ballsy fake claim.

[Ankamius]

post

[Ankamius]

Ok yeah, that slot is scum.

[Ankamius]

UNVOTE: RadiantCowbells
VOTE: StubbsKVM

#5414 sank him in my eyes.

[Ankamius]

Epiphanies:
Serene

THANK YOU MOD FOR RECOGNIZING MY MOMENT OF PERSONAL GROWTH

I admit I lold at that.

[Ankamius]

This is the play today.

Vote: JacobSavage

[Ankamius]

If JacobSavage is town, then AP is confscum in my eyes.

[Ankamius]

I suspect a 4-man scumteam + SK

With that in mind, killing the RB and having him flip town is shit, or him flipping scum and going back to 2 kills a night is also shit.

[Ankamius]

Like I said a while back, I'm pretty sure the SK has bulletproof. The mafia might have the (or a?) bulletproof too.

I'm content to believe that Crabd told the truth about blocking Stubbs N4. The context of the situation makes fakeclaiming the target a ballsy move.

I might go look at votecounts. I just realized that there's most likely a lot of information we can get from VCA.

[Ankamius]

What's your theory on the lack of kills then?

[Ankamius]

What's your theory on the lack of kills then?

Serene got roleblocked.

The fuck happened to not overcomplicating things unnecessarily.

You must have forgotten about night 4 where a VT was blocked.

[Ankamius]

What the fuck did I just read?

[Ankamius]

Here's another instance where my reads are good early on but later turn into complete shit.

This is why I shouldn't ever play larges.