NY 188: Delicious Mafia II (Post-game chatter)

[texcat]

VOTE: Nanite

[texcat]

Also FOS Shinobi for claiming town in his first post.

[texcat]

UNVOTE: Nanite
VOTE: Ozgin another hat

FOS Lapsa. Post 36 may be the longest one I've ever seen him make.

[texcat]

Is that Lapsa FOS really grounds for a scumread? I don't see what's so scummy about it.

Even after he showed us where he

plagiarized

adapted it from?

Certainly not enough for a full-blown scum read, but I thought it was out of character enough to be suspicious.

[texcat]

As I said, it was the longest post I've ever seen him make. Why are you defending him so adamantly?

[texcat]

How would you know what Lapsa's role is?

[texcat]

As I said, it was the longest post I've ever seen him make. Why are you defending him so adamantly?

Because I don't think your scumread makes sense.
Besides, defending him and inquiring as to why you're scumreading him aren't necessarily the same thing.
Do you think my line of thinking is out of the ordinary?

I guess I just don't get why you are continuing to press this point. In my experience with Lapsa, it's unusual for him to make long posts with full sentences and punctuation. I thought it was worth noting with an FOS. I am generally suspicious of things that are out of the ordinary. Why is this so difficult to understand?

[texcat]

Wolfie is very confident and competent as Town, and doesn't really get annoyed or upset.

She's vulnerable to the latter two when Scum. I want to know why ika thinks she's the same regardless of alignment.

Bullshit, You said this same crap last time you were scum in a game. I get frustrated as town all the time including offsite games that you modded.

You know better.

FoS Wake for your selective memory.

Anything else you want to talk to me about?

I have seen SWolf get frustrated as both town and scum. I think it's a null tell. It seems odd that you would think differently, Wake.

[texcat]

VOTE: Salamence

I see no town benefit for a speed lynch. I do see a benefit for scum. A short day means fewer clues behind. (And I'm tired of his neverending posts with no content and urging us to speed lynch.)

[texcat]

I concur with Wolfie's FOS, and why the unnecessary claim?

[texcat]

I concur with Wolfie's FOS, and why the unnecessary claim?

Why not?

The scum will be trying to kill our power roles. Is there some reason you're narrowing the field for them?

[texcat]

Things I don't understand:
1. A whole lot of people expressed suspicion of Wolfie.

Wolfie

, why did you decide that TSO was the scum out of the bunch?

Spoiler: Wolfie scum posts

Wolfie seems confscum

VOTE: Salamence20

Lapsa, if Wolfie is confscum why vote someone else?

Hi Wolfie!

Wolfie is very confident and competent as Town, and doesn't really get annoyed or upset.

She's vulnerable to the latter two when Scum. I want to know why ika thinks she's the same regardless of alignment.

Bullshit, You said this same crap last time you were scum in a game. I get frustrated as town all the time including offsite games that you modded.

You know better.

FoS Wake for your selective memory.

Anything else you want to talk to me about?

Maybe they are scum! So they voted for the towniest person!!!

because I find policy speedlynch unlikely to happen

Not if you believe it won't! If you believe hard enough and dig deep enough, you will find the magic to get Wolfie lynched!

VOTE: Wolfie

I agree you get frustrated as town, but you usually don't get frustrated this quickly. Your reaction seems closer to you scum game than your town game.

2. A lot of people have claimed to have strong reads, but I don't know how.

Spoiler: 2a Ika knows Lapsa's role

text would it help if i said i already knew what lapra role is?

How would you know what Lapsa's role is?

simple, its based on how they are playing. you can sometimes tell a lot from a player simpily by reading their post in a certain context

2b

TSO

is sure that Ika is town. From meta? But what exactly is it about his meta? Ika has played exactly the same in every game I've played with him, and I can't imagine being able to read him.

Ika is playing to his town meta. Ika's meta tell is really reliable. Yes, this could be the game he finally attempts to subvert it. No, it's not likely at all.

3.

Wake

, why did you ask for Wolfie's latest scum games, but not her latest town games?

Would you be willing to provide links to your latest scum games, Wolfie?

4.

Skybird

, can you shed any light on Anna's thinking that Wolfie was not a real player? I didn't understand her sheeping of Lapsa and the doc claim from someone, I'm not even sure whom. When she said in the hood that she wanted to lynch Wolfie, was that before or after it was pointed out that Wolfie was a real player? Her sheep of Ika with the picture of the sheep was sort of funny, but I'm not sure it was very townie.

@Wake's scattershot. My top 3 scum reads? My vote is on Sala for wanting to indiscriminately speed lynch. I've expressed an FOS on Grayfoxx, but I'm a little leary of TSO's jump onto that easy target when TSO was under some pressure. I'm suspicious of you for asking about Wolfie's scum games, but not town games, and for requesting pressure on TSO without voting him. I didn't like Redff's vote on Lapsa for the alligator post, sheeping my FOS on the same post, and immediately backing off once he realized it was an adaptation of one of your posts. I'm not liking Anna's posts very much. But Day One suspicions, and some are not likely scum together. *shrug*

[texcat]

Hi Frogger! I hope you're town!

@Aero

Pizza, something cool and summery like fruit or salad, more chocolate!

[texcat]

Always remember that I fixed that quote when you send your scummy nomination

<3

And yet one more thing that I don't understand.

[texcat]

My vote for Salamance doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

My FOS on Grayfoxx has increased. He seems to be making a lot of lame excuses for not scum-hunting. Observing? More tonight?

VOTE: Grayfoxx I think that's

L-3

.

[texcat]

Texie!

Talk to me.

I think gray is always an easy lynch and I'm not caught up enough to sort him yet.

What specifically are the posts that are scummy from him?

Re: easy lynch Yep, I tend to agree. Nevertheless, after just a quick browse through GrayFoxx's ISO I still don't see anything that indicates he is town.

Suspicion started way back in 347 when he claimed VT, not in response to any votes, but in response to 2 FOS's.

Playing the poor little inexperienced me card:

This is alot to read I feel like a JV player in a Varsity game.

Larger game, and seemingly top notch players across the board. I'm using this as an opportunity to learn through observation, and that entails not being my usual active self.

Although, as TSO pointed out, there's no reason not to observe AND play.

My excuses are legit answers to questions. Odd you FOS me for that.

Since when do I need to be super active to scumhunt? I can tell when someone is being scummy, without them directly talking to me.

No one is asking you to be super active. Can you show us where you've done anything pro-town?

[texcat]

35 pages weeeeee

And I'm still willing to switch to Salamence.

[texcat]

And yeah, I would leave my vote here for now.
VOTE: Anna
Three in a neighborhood, probably one scum, this one's the scummiest.

Argghhh. This is crap! You shouldn't be voting for the scummiest in the one neighborhood that's claimed; you should be voting for the scummiest in the game. "Three in a hood, one is scum" is just total speculation and absolutely no reason for a vote at this point.

This is why the hoods should remain silent for the time being.

[texcat]

I'm not liking what I'm seeing from Oz.

UNVOTE: Grayfoxx
VOTE: Ozgin

On Anna: I agree with SW, I think it was, who said that it's hard to have a good read based on secondhand info from the hood. I didn't like Anna's start particularly, but I didn't like Frogger's start very much either. So I'm reluctant to take one interpretation over the other. Although I do have a town lean on Skybird. I'd like to see more from Anna to get a better feel for her firsthand.

@Spiff You seem awfully focused on Anna. Could you explain why?

[texcat]

Ozgin was not obviously town Boon. I'm annoyed tbh.

And still not obvtown in my book, but I'm willing to unvote just in case.

UNVOTE: Oz

[texcat]

Salamence, do you consider yourself a lurker?

[texcat]

VOTE: Salamence

[texcat]

I'm still up for a Salamence lynch.

[texcat]

UNVOTE: GMorning
Nice to see someone is Sala's slot actually reading and voting.

VOTE: Grayfoxx
Same reasons as last time I voted him. See 859.

Wake, I've seen all your questions, but am late getting to the office. I'll deal with them when I get home in about 6-7 hours.

[texcat]

Texcat

———•

Where exactly do you stand on TSO's alignment?

Hoping/leaning town. I can't imagine scum being so forceful/adamant/insistent. I may just be naive.

———•

Where exactly do you stand on Silverwolf's alignment?

Very slight town lean, but mostly null/wait and see.

———•

Where exactly do you stand on Shinobi's alignment?

Mostly town lean.

———•

Why have you contributed so little?

*shrug* Why do you have so many posts that say the same thing over and over again?

———•

TSO's Masquerade link to try and paint GF as Scum. What do you think of it?

I don't read old games.

———•

Why

did you switch to Ozgin?* You never explained why, and then you quickly unvoted 20 posts later.

This all made sense if you had read those posts in context. I voted Oz because of his floundering around with contradictory reads on Red and TSO, and unvoted because of the claim.

———•

Salamence is no longer here. Where are you in this game? Where do you stand? Anything you want to share?

It's still Day ONE. I voted Salamence for wanting to quick lynch someone, anyone without discussion. But I'm beginning to see his point. I think we've discussed and debated and flamed enough. Time to lynch.

———•

Which three players do you feel most are trying to avoid suspicion?

Everyone should be trying to avoid suspicion. Town should be trying to avoid suspicion to avoid being mis-lynched. Scum should be trying to avoid suspicion to avoid being rightfully lynched. I'm not sure what you are asking here. Are you asking who I think is successfully avoiding suspicion? Are you asking who is trying the hardest? Are you asking who is trying but failing to avoid suspicion? And what is this supposed to tell me about who is scum?

[texcat]

Looks like one death is odd-night vig, one death is scum, and the third????

VOTE: TSO

[texcat]

I just got back from a short day at the office, expecting to see TSO's flip and the thread locked. How can we still be debating this?

[texcat]

Not Aligned with Town. Survivor is the only role that I know of that is third party and not SK.

TSO, can you share your win condition with us?

[texcat]

Yep. I'm not getting it at all. Just looks like scum scrambling and trying to cling to whatever shred of possibility might save him.

[texcat]

So? Are you thinking that TSO is SK? I still think we need to lynch him. SK's tend to be more kill more town than scum, don't they?

[texcat]

Perhaps, it doesn't make sense, but clearly you already have shot town.

[texcat]

Like, I wouldn't expect all hoods free and clear except for SK. Red's the best bet for scum neighbor.

And we only have TSO's claim that he is SK. He could still obviously be scum, who tried claiming Survivor and is now trying to claim SK.

[texcat]

I believe TSO and think we ought to give him another Day at least. Either we force the Scum to kill him or we continue to have a kill we can direct.

Even if you believe that TSO is SK, what makes you think that scum will kill him? They won't. Or they won't until much closer to the end. He's helping them, intentionally or not.

Town needs fewer kills while we figure things out, not more kills. Even if TSO decides to let us direct his kills, what makes you think that we'll do a better job than our town vig did last Night or better than we did with our lynch Yesterday?

My vote remains on TSO. I think it's the only pro-town policy. Plus I still think he's likely to be scum anyway.

[texcat]

I'm good with leashing TSO. If he is scum, like he said in 2190, we now control his team's kill.

My only question for TSO is what happens when all the scum are dead?

What? We wouldn't control his team's kill. We'd only control it as long as we direct him to town. If he is scum and we direct him to kill scum, he won't. He'll kill town and make us lynch him. That's only a way to ensure that he kill town.

[texcat]

im done with this game untill town decides to be smart and lynch tso

VOTE: tso

pedit: no he dies

^^This^^

I keep seeing people like Quaroth and Mahonster

say

that TSO should be lynched, but where are your votes?

[texcat]

also the way he led the lynch on gray, a useless player and an easy lynch, seems more scum motivated than the play of a serial killer.

Ask Ozgin about this and how Titus who was the SK in 185 pushed so hard for his lynch and tunneled him into the ground and he was a claimed VT and a super easy lynch for scum. I don't think SK's care any more than scum about who gets lynched. Actually scum care more because they don't want their buddies lynched.

Ugh, please don't remind me about 185. I just perpetually turn myself into lynch candy every game I play, and it's 90% of the time on day 1.

That said, I think we need to stop wasting time on debating the TSO lynch (because it won't and shouldn't happen yet), and start actually scum hunting, yeah?

Ozgin, can you explain your quick turnaround from 2262??? You asked 4 questions in large letters. How do you now answer those questions?

[texcat]

@Texcat-Are you going to address your blatant contradiction in 2252 or do anything at all today except call for TSO to be lynched and the day to end?

@Shinobi-Are you going to address 2253?

Do I really have to explain why I opposed a flash lynch on a random person, and don't oppose a quick lynch on a known scum/anti-town?

So far TSO has gone after and killed two townies, Grayfoxx and Wake. And today he is going after two more, Red and me. Neither of us has done anything particularly scummy, except for vote for TSO, which I note is the same mistake that Wake made. How many dead townies will it take?

Everyone seems to be assuming that TSO is SK. I'm not so sure. TSO was caught by our cop and started scrambling, first claiming benign third party and when that didn't work, then claiming SK. I admire his resilience. He's fighting for his life. But he's doing exactly what I would expect a scum to do. There is no way to know whether is SK or scum until we see his flip.

There were three deaths last night, and the third could be explained by having a SK in the game. I'm sure if there is a SK and it's not TSO, he's having a very amusing day. Or the third death could be explained by multiball. I seem to recall that TSO was fairly adamant that we were playing single-ball Yesterday, and so I think multiball is a likely possibility. But the third death could also just be an extra scum kill or another vig of some sort.

For those naive enough to believe TSO's SK claim and think that he can be leashed, I ask how do you propose to leash him? How do you propose to decide who TSO kills?

[texcat]

I'd guess it was the fact that I answered them, texaco my dear. Maybe if you were reading, you'd have seen that.

Seriously, read the game.

Thank you dearie, but I really would like an answer from Oz. His big bold questions were not answered in his unvote post.

Spoiler: Ozgin posts

First post from college dorm

But seriously, I come back and TSO is caught scum turned survivor turned serial killer? What in a farfandoogan fuck is going on? And let me ask this to everyone not voting TSO:

1) What is the point in leaving a Serial Killer alive?
2) If you plan on leashing him, how do you know you can trust him?
3) If you're gonna lynch him eventually anyways, why not just do it now? One less anti town role, right?
4) What if he's just lying scum anyways? Where's the merit in his claim after claiming something as stupid as Survivor?

Please, let's not be risky or edgy or stupid and lynch someone who is clearly not town, groupscum or not.

UNVOTE: TSO

I suppose I see your angle, TSO. That (at least vaguely) answers my questions, and I suppose if you lie you're dead anyways. But what do you get from aiding us? When scum is dead, so are you. Why would you bother to help us? What's your angle? How do you plan on winning by being our pet vig rather than just accepting that you're caught and surrendering your life to us? Like, I get it but don't get it.

[texcat]

The reality of this game is that lynching me does fuck all to help advance your wc. It gives you a little happy feeling of "oh, we lynched the SK"

before scum massacre you again tonight

. You will have to chain at least 4 scum lynches in order to win this game. If you have a Vig, that drops to two. And everyone who is pushing me is scum - scum want me dead. Texcat. Red. Ika. When people like these, who were absolutely anonymous d1, suddenly burst out of the woodwork to push this lynch it should trigger an alarm.

Scum don't need to go PR hunting, so

they are going to kill people like SilverWolf and Shinobi tonight.

In a day or two, the remaining playerlist will look something like Ika/Texcat/Kop/Lapsa/Mahonster/Quaroath/RedFF/Nosferatu/Annadog40. There are a few names here who are vaguely competent, but half of these blatantly aren't, or are simply just scum. Do you honestly expect that scum will get lynched after this? No. When this scenario occurs the town win condition can no longer be achieved because with the amount of village idiots, scum control the lynches. You need me to shoot these people so they can't get into this situation, because that situation is the exact one which is coming. That's the future with me dead.

Is it a coincidence that so many names on that list are also on my wagon?

This looks suspiciously like a couple of scum slips to me. TSO is scum and knows that this is multiball. He talks about a scum massacre again tonight. If this is single ball with a SK, I would hardly characterize the one scum kill last night as a massacre, nor would I expect a scum massacre tonight. And he talks about scum killing SW

AND

Shinobi tonight. I feel certain that this is multiball and that TSO is scum.

[texcat]

Though it's extremely likely I'll be shooting texcat tonight.

So much for the leash, heh?

[texcat]

Are you the so called town overlords, Anna? Did someone appoint you to that position? Possibly TSO, the scum?

@Shinobi, Could you check your hood and see if Boon left any crumbs about who he was protecting last night?

[texcat]

I am still quite unhappy with a texcat kill. Not moving my vote.

Too bad you're not in control of the leash. Who is control of the leash? Apparently whoever TSO wants.

[texcat]

It gives you a little happy feeling of "oh, we lynched the SK" before scum massacre you again tonight

How is one night kill a massacre?

I wrote that, not texcat. And yeah, I was letting the three nightkills last night cloud my judgement.

Exactly, Anna. That was the scum slip. Why exactly do you think that TSO is SK and not scum?


And PEDIT: Correct play, my ass. I love the way TSO is sucking up to the uncommitted voters.

[texcat]

OMG. The problem is that TSO is NOT a SK. He's scum. IKA has just about proved it.

[texcat]

The NK target could change possibly based off Tex's flip if we can find some Tex associatives.

I'd most prefer a Tex lynch and a Mahonster vig, but town is pretty set on Red. I have no clue about red, and i'm trying to read up now to sort his alignment.

How are you going to change the target and direct TSO at night? In the scum thread?

Seriously, why do you want my lynch? What on earth makes you think I am scum? And I'm pretty sure Red is town too. Town is not set on Red. That's mostly scum you see voting for him, led by the head scum TSO. I would add, trust me on this, but you don't really have to trust me on this. We KNOW that TSO is scum.

Kop, what makes you think that we aren't going anywhere with the TSO lynch? If obviously you want to lynch TSO, why don't you put your vote there? Saying that you want a lynch and not voting for it is scummy as heck in my book.

[texcat]

If you actually care to take a look back, you'd see my vote is already on TSO. And it's been there since the turn of day two.

Oops. So you are. I apologize, Kop.

The NK target could change possibly based off Tex's flip if we can find some Tex associatives.

I'd most prefer a Tex lynch and a Mahonster vig, but town is pretty set on Red. I have no clue about red, and i'm trying to read up now to sort his alignment.

How are you going to change the target and direct TSO at night? In the scum thread?

Seriously, why do you want my lynch? What on earth makes you think I am scum? And I'm pretty sure Red is town too. Town is not set on Red. That's mostly scum you see voting for him, led by the head scum TSO. I would add, trust me on this, but you don't really have to trust me on this. We KNOW that TSO is scum.

Kop, what makes you think that we aren't going anywhere with the TSO lynch? If obviously you want to lynch TSO, why don't you put your vote there? Saying that you want a lynch and not voting for it is scummy as heck in my book.

Lol did you really just say I'm scum with TSO? Lolololol. To answer your question, town could decide to lynch you, figure out who you may be scum with, and tell TSO if you flip scum TSO must kill X or if you flip town TSO must kill Y. But that might not be possible if he's scum and you are SK, which I think is possible (see below)

Anyway. I agree it's possible TSO is scum. I also agree ika is likely town and makes a good, original case for TSO to be groupscum.

I disagree with you being town even though you agree with ika. Your take on TSO makes me think you are SK who can't counter claim or you are groupscum with knowledge that it must be multiball somehow. You seem to be so sure TSO is scum but haven't made your own argument, and what you are saying sounds like you have knowledge he can't be SK.

Did you not see where I pointed out TSO's scum slip? Why does TSO think that there was a scum massacre last night? Because he knows two of those kills were due to scum, not scum and a SK.

And the way to find out all of these "if this or if that's" is to lynch TSO. Then we know for sure. And what do we lose? Nothing. We know that TSO is anti-town and that we have to lynch him at some point. Why not lynch him now and use that information going forward?

[texcat]

LOL I just read TSO´s Sig line.

[texcat]

VOTE: TSO