Large Normal 208 - Fireworks Festival [End]

[Whiskers]

Let me just skip a page and a half of posts to

Vote: Axle Greaser

for being incredibly annoying and unnecessarily obfuscating. Was going to hop on Ali wagon but this is insufferable. Meanwhile,
FOS Cabd for the soft Vig/SK claim, FOS UC Voyager for the

overt

SK claim, which, while I don't buy (because he claimed "Town-Aligned SK"), regular SKs, and Day-Vigs (where being one doesn't necessarily clear him) are quite likely, and I think it's a breadcrumb.

Ahh, it's all coming back to me now...

[Whiskers]

@UC villager
It's also completely fucking illegible, please write it out normally so anybody can read/quote it.
Why is there so much spam in this game already?

Axle's first post is the most cancerous shit i have ever seen in my mafia career

wooo, thank you.
Also @UCV, your "fakeclaim in RVS" is going to be used to incriminate you as town or scum later on in the game. It's very very real to breadcrumb during RVS. And if it _is_ fake, you've just introduced a whole extra angle that scum could attack you from, disctracting from

real

scumhunting when we'll need it most. RVS is RVS, but IGMEOU.

[Whiskers]

i currently beleive Nero could possibly be scum with Alisea because of their early interactions,
ALSO
I think Nero targeted me a little early ....Because I know my role, it would make since for Nero [as scum] to try to go after me. And due to my lack of experience, i am a lot easier to miss lynch than other players!

(Btw, nope.

Vote: UC Voyager

)

I call complete BULL Crap on alisea's Macho Miller claim. I think it is one hell of a way to look innocent after cop says he found you guilty!
But
I think her page on reads were just a joke N such!

I will never try this again. that took way to long.

[Whiskers]

Going "I'M NEW HAHA IT WOULD JUST BE

TOOOO

EASY TO MISLYNCH ME! BECAUSE I'M SOOOOO NEW HAHA!" means that you're self aware that you're scummy and are trying to avoid lynch for it.
Instead, don't be scummy? new =/= town???

[Whiskers]

a town seriel killer isn't even a real role. neither were the win conditions i made up. HOW WAS I DISTRACTING! RVS isn't something you can just force a stop to it. It has to stop when actuall information starts to come into the game

True, Town SK isn't a role, but that's basically analogous to a Vigilante. It's really easy to claim "I'm Town SK!" and then call on it later to say "Here, I am a Vig. You have to believe me: I claimed it in the RVS stage

when you weren't paying attention, (how clever of me.)

Further, actual information starts to come into the game when someone decides they want RVS to be over.
But, it was like your 4th post and the second page of the game. I'm willing to back off for now.

Unvote

However! I question your scruple:

Being new, im more likely to make a mistake and look super scummy and get lynched! I mean! I havn't even been on site for a month for gods sake.

I have an alt. TheTheClown, but this is my main account!

[Whiskers]

So, I was mistaken earlier, it looks like there actually

isn't

the possibility of a Mafia-aligned Dayvig. With that said, @Cabd, what's your role? You claim it will be proven by the end of the day, you also hinted at it incredibly early. If your intent was not to claim, you probably shouldn't have said anything. And if your intent IS to claim, please go ahead and do it so we can make the most use of the role with the time we have.

That said, I understand that Days are a week long, so I suppose there isn't actually much of a rush. I'm townreading you, Cabd, but your softclaim is just going to make people talk more about whether softclaiming is town or scum, and why you did it, and that (focusing on you) is going to detract from finding scum in the pool of

other

players.

[Whiskers]

Well its not like he hard claimed. He claimed a non-normal role wich seems like it could be scum paving the way for a fake claim. Like claiming non-normal seems like its opens up his options.

Thinking back to this, it potentially opens up powerful town roles to a cc dilemma. Liking it for scum now.

I should hope town knows better than to counterclaim. Unless it's Voyager, in which case it's probably just for the best if he's transparent with us...

[Whiskers]

Don't rush his claiming. He'll claim when it's time

and once he stops having fun messing with all the delicious attentions

Plus, speculating his role adds nothing to the discussion, ESPECIALLY when y'all are speculating what kind of NORMAL role it would be when it's one of those NON-NORMAL role.

I don't disagree-- but that's the thing, speculating his role and giving him lots of attention is a waste of our limited time.

I'm pretty sure it will not stop until he's fullclaimed, and if we don't pressure him now, he won't do it until "sundown," or he uses his role, or possibly not at all today after promising it.

Do you know how many scum I've seen softclaim a mysterious role, then string Vanillas along by the nose? For multiple days at a time, too.

We dont need everyone claiming day one tbh. that makes it a lot easier for scum to pick off the PRs

Yeah, not "everyone," just the player who is softclaiming a PR that will let him influence the day and supposedly confirm himself town.

[Whiskers]

Like, if he's town, Scum already sees the PR claim and will shoot him tonight. If he can confirmed-clear himself he should do it now so we can work around it. HE'S ALREADY PR-CLAIMED AND SAID HE CAN CONFIRM HIMSELF, so he should do it. If town can operate with one Confirmed Townie (and possibly with a Vig shot or something like it,) there's no reason he should hold back.

TOWN IS AN UNINFORMED MAJORITY, AND WITHHOLDING INFORMATION IS INHERENTLY ANTI-TOWN.

That's my view.

[Whiskers]

Whiskers voting axel for obfuscation but only scolding UC is questionable.

Axel isn't brand-spanking new. UC is scoldable. I couldn't even properly read Axel's post-- like, I could not wring any information out of it.

I'm trawling through axel's post history now, but it all seems to be about donald trump so idfk.

I think UC is town. Inefficient posting style, but there is scum hunting in it.

Point me to some scumhunting within his posting, please.

I would like to see better pushes from beeboy. My experience playing scum with them is that they have rock solid defenses of themselves, but there's not a lot of pushing from within it.

That reads like a PR. (are you telegraphing to fellow scum?) What's his town play like?

That's like
THE textbook method of how mafia works.
And the real game doesn't (always) work like that.

It clearly bothers YOU, but it might not be bothering EVERYONE in the game ya know.
Like, a slight consideration of "why would he do that" would easily tell you why what you're doing is not a great idea, regardless of Cabd's alignment.

It also doesn't always

not

work like that-- might I remind you we're playing a Normal game? Why would he do that? Players make foolish gambles all the time. As scum, he does it to bait town into ignoring him as a target until Day 4. As town, he does it to try to get town to follow him onto one of his targets, ultimately revealing himself and changing everything.

[Whiskers]

Jesus christ apparently for an entire year all of Axel's posting was solely in the Donald Trump thread, it's like the first 14 fucking pages of his post history

for goodness snake!

[Whiskers]

I think i asked like 3-4 questions already and i was openly ignored by everyone so fuck yall

I'm p sure you haven't been openly ignored, and at least one of your questions was answered-- and in picture form, no less.

Also hi people

@UC the interactions nero/alisea you said makes you scumread nero, is it only because he called alisa mefia or is there other stuff? you quoted that somewhere

i currently beleive Nero could possibly be scum with Alisea because of their early interactions,
ALSO
I think Nero targeted me a little early ....Because I know my role, it would make since for Nero [as scum] to try to go after me. And due to my lack of experience, i am a lot easier to miss lynch than other players!

I call complete BULL Crap on alisea's Macho Miller claim. I think it is one hell of a way to look innocent after cop says he found you guilty!
But
I think her page on reads were just a joke N such!

I will never try this again. that took way to long.

Here's your second question:

Like if cabd made that as a scum move, that wasnt efficient at all

If he was scum that claimed non-normal role what do you think he'd give as his reasoning?

Here's your third question:

Well its not like he hard claimed. He claimed a non-normal role wich seems like it could be scum paving the way for a fake claim. Like claiming non-normal seems like its opens up his options.

Thinking back to this, it potentially opens up powerful town roles to a cc dilemma. Liking it for scum now.

Cabd or nero for scum? i dont understand extremely well what you tried to say there

I scum read cabd's claim, but will give him the benefit of the doubt that he can confirm himself d1.

I think UC is town. Inefficient posting style, but there is scum hunting in it.

Whiskers voting axel for obfuscation but only scolding UC is questionable.

I noted that I found raha's vote suspicious but I don't remember why.

I would like to see better pushes from beeboy. My experience playing scum with them is that they have rock solid defenses of themselves, but there's not a lot of pushing from within it.

Sooo, actually, ALL of your questions have been answered. Try reading thread? FOS Joey.

[Whiskers]

As scum, he does it to bait town into ignoring him as a target until Day 4.

Never knew drawing aggro makes ppl ignore them.

It can if you play it right and there are scummier people than you.

Jesus christ apparently for an entire year all of Axel's posting was solely in the Donald Trump thread, it's like the first 14 fucking pages of his post history

for goodness snake!

I'm not suggesting anything but when I played with him he did that too and he was scum.

He... posted about donald trump as scum? I'm not following. (a joke?)

*I*

was just looking at his history to see if "posting stupid bullshit" was something he does as town, since Flubbernugget called me out for Voting Axel but mere scolding Voyager.

With that said, @Cabd, what's your role

I am explicitly claiming a role that can give town two lynches day one. And I'm leaving it at that.

is this a really bad gladiator claim or am i dumb?

IMO you should leave it at that, too, Dunk.

Oh also, let it be said that your scenario of vaguely claiming as scum usually happens when that said scum is under pressure.

Not true. That'd be extremely scummy. That's a newbie move. Good scum who can handle it would totally softclaim a PR and lead townies on, always dangling the carrot, until the damage has been fully done. No promises I can whip up examples, but I think Rainbow Dash and maybe Thor(?) did it.
It's been a long time since I played and I don't remember a lot of people's names or their specific play in a game. Not that it matters: my point is, it's a gambit, and it's a gambit that sometimes works.

Hey, even if it's stupid, answer is an answer.

This. I translated it into text a few posts later-- it was even on the same page.

[Whiskers]

Why buddy me then get super hostile at everyone else, man?

Mitch McConnell is right, UC made an effort all the same.

Buddied you? I wasnt even defending you, i just attacked the bad fos on your claim

TBH you looked like you had a Cabd townread. I had to go back and read your ISO to see you didn't explicitly say that.
So Joey, what

are

your reads?

[Whiskers]

Not that it matters: my point is, it's a gambit, and it's a gambit that sometimes works.

Can confirm this is a gambit that works often and would totally do so as scum. Don't plan on that worry being an issue here, ever.

How can a role that allows town to lynch twice in a day be considered a normal role, and why won't you hard claim?

If you have a problem with it, take it up with the group of people who Review Normal Game Setups. He did hardclaim. He gave us what we needed and we can now confirm it. There is no longer any reason to waste time talking about it.

[Whiskers]

All the content i wanted to out has been outed

You haven't outed any.

Vote: Joey_

[Whiskers]

Also my 204 didnt imply i did out anything, it implied that everything i wanted outed, has been outed. If nothing was outed it means i didnt want to out anything yet so im not sure whats the basis of that fos

You haven't outed anything.
By both your admission and my reasoning, you don't want anything outed.
You are lazy at best but more likely scum.

Let's get get the train going, guys.

[Whiskers]

Quality of content isnt the same as quantity, first.

Sure.
Your quality is shit,
your quantity is low.

Second, i didnt admit i outed anything, i admited what i intented to say in my post, that exactly the content that was outed was everything i was to be outed as of yet. That doesnt mean im admitting i outed anything : )

I didn't say you

lied,

I said you're

useless.

Third, you didnt ask me why i didnt want to out all my content but you assumed it was because i was lazy if town, as if there werent any other reason why i would refrain from outing more reads atm. Your post are literraly full of flaws and bad assumptions[/quote]
Since you are claiming to be useless

intentionally,

you're lazy town at best.

Please, don't get me wrong. I'm not making the assumption that you're a lazy townie. The other reason you'd refrain is that

you're scum.

[Whiskers]

Kay I'm home
let me just plug in some tunes real quickly

We need literally

none

of your facebook updates, thanks.

[Whiskers]

I dont really think cabd would come up with such a power role, but how doe that all work. traditionally. when one gets enough votes for a lynch, the thread is locked upon reveal of lynched players role.
So. how does this all work. here is my questions

-does player's role get revealed and they can no longer lynched, but the thread isn't locked?
-do their last vote count after the lynch?
-Is this a one time ability, or does it last until you die

tbh none of that needs outed. we have a role claim that we can prove. It's normal so no bastard-mod stuff (where the role he's told he is is false).
He has PR-claimed early, which I think was a mistake but gives us the ability to use his power for Town. He has softclaimed after being stepped on a little bit. He even went so far to admit that the gambit I thought he could be using (which others were trying to discredit me for) is a popular scum gambit. He has been extremely compliant. I trust him, and if you want to squeeze him for more information later, you can do so. For now,

please focus on finding scum, ie Joey.

WHy did you have to claim at all? Why not let us lynch someone and we would see for ourselves that there is another lynch and you wouldn't have to be outed.

Because then Day 2 would be full of frantic chaotic bullshit and people throwing around claims and freaking out over the setup? And Scum would capitalize on that chaos and lynch a bunch of townies? C'mon, you can answer this one yourself.

[Whiskers]

WHy did you have to claim at all? Why not let us lynch someone and we would see for ourselves that there is another lynch and you wouldn't have to be outed.

Plus, imagine if Day 1 ended with a surprise double lynch that we were unable to direct. That's two town lynches (day 1 is most commonly mislynches) in one day. Honestly the more questions you ask the more I'm thinking this was a good idea.

Fos Million

Second of all, better to have some uncertainty than to lose a town player.

If he

doesn't

claim, and we have a double lynch Day 1, we lose a town player.
Please think this stuff through.

[Whiskers]

I mean day 1 has ended in scum lynches, of course.

That doesn't mean that that happens a majority of the time or even often. If you cannot assume that town will lynch town day 1, you

certainly

cannot make the assumption that town will lynch scum day 1.
That's like assuming it's going to be a full moon, while also asserting "you can't assume it's going to be any of the [/i]other[/i] moon shapes!

this is my werewolf breadcrumb post teehee

[Whiskers]

Let me just skip a page and a half of posts to

Vote: Axle Greaser

for being incredibly annoying and unnecessarily obfuscating.

This feels REALLY faked tbh.
I mean yeah that Axle post is a bit wierd to say
but its not THAT bad seesh.

Faked? Joey agrees with me.

understandable
have a nice day

Oh for fuck's sake

so it's ok when

he

can't read it, but

I'm

all full of "fake anger??"

Reminder

I said: it was "incredibly annoying and unnecessarily obfuscating."
Joey said: it was "the most cancerous shit I have ever seen in my mafia career."

Oh wow, gee, I'm so angry compared to that guy? Bullshit.
Alisae is sloppy scum with Joey?

[Whiskers]

Day 1 town lynches may happen more often than scum lynches, but operating based on that assumption is a dangerous slippery slope. Scum lynches and town wins don't happen by accident.

Right: they happen by putting your cards on the table and using as much information as you can get to catch out the scum. Even *if* we lynch scum Day 1, with a blind, unwitting, accidental second-lynch happening,

even if

our normal lynch lands on scum, the second lynch

would be completely random

for all intents and purposes.


You're going "herp derp I

wanted

and extra accidental surprise lynch that we couldn't control."
You're saying you [/i]wanted[/i] to be out of control of that second lynch we supposedly have.

Also,

Why are you argueing about this this seems like such a futile topic to be talking about :/

[Whiskers]

i just ctrl+f "angry" on alisae's iso and he never mentionned you being angry : )

This feels just as faked as Whisker's Anger.

Get rekt, scrub.

[Whiskers]

got ninja'd.

[Whiskers]

Like I didn't read it
I'm not going to pretend to understand it
but you feel like your overeacting

For Cloudie (If its not clear, Joey = Cloudie) it comes off as perfectly natural to me tbh.

Right now I'm trying to figure out if you're scum or if this is just your personality, beacuse right now it seems like you're overeacting to me.

It was unintelligible.
Axel's post was unintelligible. I said it, annoyed, but relatively calm, which is apparently faked anger. Joey said it, exaggerating and cursing, which is not faked, but perfectly natural.

I'm pretty sure you're full of shit.

Also

You're the one that brought it up and started the conversation don't twist the fuckin context.

I'm pretty sure you're wrong. I got what I wanted, other people have been digging further after the fact. Don't pin it on me that Million & Voyager want even more.

[Whiskers]

Cabd fyi I don't give a dam about your role
if you are town you'll communicate that via play.

So far he has. The main mark of his play has been level-headedness, willingness to cooperate with the town (me), and most of all,

HIS ROLECLAIM.

Tell us more about these "warning signs" you have from Cabd?

I'm getting warning signs.

Let's talk about this.

Okay GiF
I don't like how Cabd is implying his role makes him town just by mentioning it multiple times, because that's how I'm reading it.
I also think his impatience and attitude towards TWIM is faked and super overblown.

I think you need to stop using the words "faked" and "overblown," since you've used it to describe both Cabd and me.

He's not "implying his role makes him town by mentioning it multiple times," although the role he's claimed is inherently an

asset to the town

, so.

He's implying he's town because he's making the most-Town-aligned decisions he can make concerning his role: IE, giving a second lynch TO TOWN.

[Whiskers]

It was unintelligible.
Axel's post was unintelligible. I said it, annoyed, but relatively calm, which is apparently faked anger. Joey said it, exaggerating and cursing, which is not faked, but perfectly natural.

I'm pretty sure you're full of shit.

Yes I know Cloudie and I am familar with him. I expect him to react in the type of way he did to that.
If that's you trying to be calm then I clearly did not see it.
To me it came off as
"This guy is the most annoying piece of shit I've ever seen I want to pl it"

ok but the person

literally going

"this guy is the most annoying piece of shit i've ever seen i want to pl it," is

not

overblown and fake.

wew

[Whiskers]

I don't like how Cabd is implying his role makes him town just by mentioning it multiple times, because that's how I'm reading it.

Not that it matters: my point is, it's a gambit, and it's a gambit that sometimes works.

Can confirm this is a gambit that works often and would totally do so as scum. Don't plan on that worry being an issue here, ever.

tbh I did not see that post

>not reading thread

Nice town-play!

well i never implied pl, i think you did tho somewhere

I voted for him, that could be construed as PL? but that's Ali's inference.

[Whiskers]

NEW FLASH : im pretty sure almost everyone who recently posted is town

No don't say that
That's one of the most overrated Day 1 cliche post ever

why? As in its scummy or as in its never true?

It's pretty useless.

Idk it's status as a cliche, but "pretty sure" "almost everyone" is not a read or a list of reads. It's filler made to look like you're participating.

[Whiskers]

You are completely not taking into consideration that I've played with Cloudie before.

Again, I am trying to figure out if you are scum or if this is just your personality.

And I don't think Cloudie even fos'd axle for that (I didn't get that impression atleast)

If it's literally based on a personality read and you cannot make the judgement call because you have not played enough games with me, then IMO it's scummy for you to attack me for my personality. Catch me in a lie, don't go, "He's describing that post almost-but-not-quite as viciously as my buddy! Nobody would ever do that (except my buddy)!! FOS!!!"

NVM that again, i think it was cabd to UC

Ok.

I missed like a couple of posts and I have a short attention span :/[/quote]Consider posting about your day to day activities less, and spending that time reading the thread?

[Whiskers]

Its not filler, im actually dead serious

It's filler. It's about as telling as me going "Some of the people who posted sometimes might be SCUM!! :O"

[Whiskers]

He didnt attack you for your personnality, he just doesnt have the information to make that call weither its your personnality or scum overreacting. While, in my cas, he does have that information because we played a lot.

Great. If he

doesn't have the information to make that call

then maybe he [/i]shouldn't call me out as scum for it.[/i]

Furthermore, look at my games if you want that info.

He's scummy.

[Whiskers]

When someone posts and say "wtf XX pages??" kind of things please quote this post for me

(What does this refer to? I don't understand what you're saying here.)

[Whiskers]

I think it's possible Camd's claim is correct and he just made a poor judgement in claiming.

Or maybe he did make the best decision in claiming exactly how he did and you are the one who lacks the information to decides if he outed correctly or not

Well I am obviously lacking information because he is not full claiming, but I fail to see if he thinks "his role gives him a short life" why full claiming would not be the best thing to do.

I agree with this. If he claims and can prove his role, he dies N1.
However, if he doesn't claim, town has a random lynch on their hands at the end of D1 (or semi-random lynch, I have the feeling it'll be the two biggest wagons that are lynched at the end of the day).

[preedit]
Also, Alisae judging me based on lack of info on personality (when the info is in my post history),
Alisae letting Joey off easy based on his personality.
Alisae saying, "Cabd doesn't make poor judgement calls!" and letting him off without scrutinizing him,

based on his personality

This is scum.

[Whiskers]

unvote
vote: Alisae

[Whiskers]

Alisae saying, "Cabd doesn't make poor judgement calls!" and letting him off without scrutinizing him, based on his personality

Wouldnt this be experience, not personality?

Maybe? But it still is going "He's super smart, so he can't be scum."

He's scummy.

And you are a communist.

I like how you go for the easy OMGUS personal attack in response to being called scum.

[Whiskers]

Correction, "I know from past games that he's super smart. Therefore he can't be scum."

Alisae saying, "Cabd doesn't make poor judgement calls!" and letting him off without scrutinizing him, based on his personality

Wow okay you are scum.
How am I supposed to scrutinize someone who isn't even here?
VOTE: Whiskers

what? lol
Cabd

is

here!
Not only did he make his most recent post

after

you came back from your movie, IT IS A FORUM GAME, YOU CAN LEAVE A MESSAGE INTERROGATING SOMEONE EVEN IF THEY AREN'T CURRENTLY READING THE THREAD. IT STAYS THERE.

[Whiskers]

Another possibility is that Camd is a PGO or asking for doctor protection.

I suggest you forget about cabd claims for a day or two and then revisit it when he actually claims or do something

This, thanks.

Wait, why is judging people with lack of info scummy?

Because he's going "I don't know your personality, so because of your behaviour, you're scum."
I respond, "But this other person also has the same behaviour, and you think they're not scum?"
Ali says, "Yes, I know his personality. It's in-character."
It's perfectly conceivable that

my

behaviour is in alignment with me being town, not scum-- that it's "just my personality," as is apparently the case for Joey. It's an accusation on an incredibly weak read.
Furthermore: if the behavior I'm being called scum for is depends on the person's personality, that behavior is not actually indicative of scum. It's indicative of personality. The accusation was based on my behavior,

but would only be scummy if that behavior does not match my personality,

which Ali does not know.
FURTHERMORE: Alisae

COULD

know whether that behavior matches my personality, and could make a proper read using this method,

if

she had scanned previous games of mine. She has clearly not done this, purporting not to know my personality.

[Whiskers]

HEY CABD
WHERE ARE YOU
APPARENTLY I'M SUPPOSED TO SCRUTINIZIE YOU

You can scrutinize players who are not actively online. It's a forum, not a chatroom.

[Whiskers]

What does the p stand for?
[/quote]
It's pre-edit. we can't edit our posts but sometimes we just type that and respond to posts that have been made while we were typing.

Because he's going "I don't know your personality, so because of your behaviour, you're scum."

Didn't he explixitly say that it wasn't alignment indicative?

Where?

[Whiskers]

double post obviously. Not a double vote.

I want more of the lurkers to post so I can adequately get a full read list.

What about you start with people who posted more? Can you give me some reads

>this guy askin for reads
lol

[Whiskers]

FURTHERMORE: Alisae COULD know whether that behavior matches my personality, and could make a proper read using this method, if she had scanned previous games of mine. She has clearly not done this, purporting not to know my personality.

Yeah I just got back from the fucking dissapointment that is the new bladerunner. Do you think I had this time for this?
And even if I did
do you think I'm going to be actually interested enough to go through your meta?
Because I'm not atm.

You have time to post about how you're back from bladerunner and "gotta plug in some tunes!"
So yes, I think you had the time.
If you're not interested in catching scum, have you considered getting lynched?

[Whiskers]

I want to point out that Nauci is even newer than VC Voyager.

[Whiskers]

#######
Reminder for self:
bee is town, Turtle is town
Cabd is also there
others less so
waffling on Joey
Alisae is scum
#######

[Whiskers]

I am guessing the other scum are in the lurkers.

it's like, less than 12 hours into Day 1.
There are no lurkers.
Some people have jobs
Some have kids
Some have lives.

[Whiskers]

ok I think talking to scum is unproductive and won't get me anywhere
have a nice day.

Does that mean the following, two posts later, is a townread?

I want to point out that Nauci is even newer than VC Voyager.

What is this a defense or an acid trip?

[Whiskers]

@Bee: I'd be willing to sheep you onto Million.

However Garrybote is an extremely easy read. Me and

Cloudie

should be able to nail him.

for christ sake would you use the person's actual account name that they used to play in THIS game. idfk why he's not "cloudie" in this game if that's his account but having his name be one thing and you *sometimes* referring to him by another name is confusing and obstructive... what if someone needs to ctrl+f to find what you said about Joey later? Or just-- UGH. FOR CLARITY NOW, EVEN.

-snip-

This is a good post from Voyager.
Contains actual analysis and reads.

[Whiskers]

Also I like the fact that gerry has made no contribution other than bad fakeclaim and bad fakepower and calling the noob bad for not having the experience to know it was fake (which is also bad).
You'll be useful tomorrow, right? Or else I'll lynch you?

[Whiskers]

M.C.Hammer your just gonna have to dealwithit

Ok

[Whiskers]

WHISKERS LETS GO!

ok

Unvote
vote: Two in a Million

[Whiskers]

WHISKERS LETS GO!

ok

Unvote
vote: Two in a Million

Sorry, that should actually be a quote from "moot" and my vote should be for "Bugs Bunny."

[Whiskers]

my avatar isn't technically anime either, it's fanart of a scene from Littlest Pet Shop.

[Whiskers]

him? the rest of the town?

^this.
Nauci wouldn't need to be trying to "pocket" one specific person, and I suppose if we really needed to point to someone she "pocketed" it would be you (beeboy).

that said I'm not getting scum vibes off her either. We can look more into it when there's less juicy scum to be had.

Wouldn't pushing someone to have stances while not actually saying anything thoughtful (basically mechanics discussion) also just something scum would do to just look aggressive?

Aren't you defeating your own argument here? Weren't you saying, "I don't think Nauci's scum because who could she pocket with a mechanics discussion?"
and now, "It's a mechanics discussion, she's scummy because it's not real content"

And honestly, a mechanics discussion is what was being had at the time.

[Whiskers]

I think I must not be following your discourse very well...

[Whiskers]

I don't make stances early as a rule. That's what leads to day 1 mislynches.

[/i]Pff-pfffft snerk[/i]




If your #1 priority really is lurkers, name them and call them out. I'll help you, I don't like lurkers either. Lurking/inactivity is inherently anti-town.
That said, remember that we're less than a day into the first phase of the game, and that some people have jobs, kids, and lives outside of mafiascum.

[Whiskers]

I am innocent
Rhah
Quick
Shiro
AxelGreaser

What are your reads on Gerroat and Flubbernugget, both of whom have fewer posts than AxelGreaser?

[Whiskers]

votecount 1.3

Shiro is V/LA until October 17.

Once again. You are not reading the goddamn thread. Know who doesn't bother reading the thread? People who already know all the fucking alignments.

Overreacting is more of a scum tell. It's one sentence.

No, actually it's not more of a scum tell.
Thanks though.

[Whiskers]

http://oi68.tinypic.com/xciqle.jpg
tada

[Whiskers]

@nero who do you think the "second lynch" should be? Or rather, who do you think

the two lynches, in no particular order

should be?

@Axel 199 was such a small post prodding people for opinions, wtf are you talking about "utility" and "see where it went"? why is it "meh"? We've literally been talking about it the entire time since, so how can it be "meh"?

[Whiskers]

Axel's post was unintelligible.

It perhaps was unintelligible to you. None of it was @You.

It's all @me, I'm part of this game in this thread.

If it was unintelligible to the people it was @ then i expect they made one of two decisions.
Oh thats Axle being Axle.

What is the benefit to this?
Why is that better than just communicating clearly.

Or they understood something of what i said.
They had opportunities to ask me questions about it, challenge me, or call me scum. It was RVS at the time.

And yet nobody responded... gee, it's almost like it didn't make any sense and people ignored you.
The alternative that you're suggesting is that this was some kind of secret code, which is (against the rules, and) useless to us.

You too also have choices to challenge me, ask me questions about that or anything else.

Ok sure, I'll bite:

Challenge: Why did you write a long post that was intentionally confusing and hard to make sense of? That's inherently anti-town and scummy.
Question: Why is writing a post TO only a select few people, that SOME of those people MIGHT be able to make heads or tails of (hint: there was no follow up, so we can assume they didn't), better than communicating clearly?

[Whiskers]

I'm one of those nerd smartasses who probably used to call non nerds plebs and troglodytes back in middle school

So, a hipster?

[Whiskers]

@nero who do you think the "second lynch" should be? Or rather, who do you think the two lynches, in no particular order should be?

I've already kinda answered this. I am voting Nauci.I said I wouldn't really oppose a lynch on 2iam. I', also considering a policy lynch on the miller claim and Axel feels like he's active lurking. I'd prob be ok with any of those.

Nauci is noob. if you still think she's a problem, attempt lynch tomorrow. Not inherently scummy nor more scummy than many we've seen.

btw @Nauci you don't actually have to do the code for your vote/unvote, you can just bold your vote, most mods pick it up fine.

[Whiskers]

patients is a virtue.

Is this a doc breadcrumb?

How experienced is TIAM?

Accidental scumfishing is a trademark of new players.

But otherwise, it was quite the bit of scumfishing.

All we need to know for now is that Cabd has something up his sleeve that's demonstrable in the future, and giving more details to scum is probably anti town at this point. Obviously there are things we'd love to know about how it functions as town, but not necessarily at the expense of telling scum.

Awaiting more Cabd contributions to the thread for now!

Actually, we should consider the fact that this is noobscum covering for the partner. If Million flips scum, I'll want to look hard at you next.

I asked people where I should pick up reading at and the response I got was "Oh, I don't actually read all the posts, I just flip through the game like its a magazine".

Yeah, sorry. Alisae isn't actually interested in finding scum. Don't take her as an example of all players in the game, please.

I'm not going to spoonfeed you information. I want you to develop your own reads so I can sort your slot.

Read:

"I don't know what's going on either."

Wow I'm actually taken aback at the level of rudeness and ineptitude of this Quick person.

VOTE: Quick

Rudeness and stubborness arent alignment indicative

yeaaah... call it a policy lynch. I'm sort of in the same camp as Nauci here.

Can we use one of our lynches on him because even if he's town I don't want to make it to later days having to depend on the reads of someone who doesn't actually read and judges mafia thread quality in large games by the first 7 pages of USV and jokes, then asks for hand holding while simultaneously negging everybody.

...not to mention how much not reading is a scummy thing to do.

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS LOL

I am putting effort into this game. I just don't want to read through 20 pages of dog shit to find something resembling an argument.

I'm sorry honey, but mafia might not be the right game for you.

nothing is really being discussed and people are just throwing poo at each other.

Sorry honey, it's

Day 1.

Also in that post-- Ali didn't say she never scumreads you, she said she never scum

read

you--

THIS GAME,

never gave you a scum read. It was super obvious and clear to read: it was "read," past tense, not "read," present tense.

[Whiskers]

Yup. Have I NOT been putting effort into the game, or what?

Yes, correct.

THIS

Is a very good post.

Whiskers is in the lead here and he really needs to answer my questions b/c I'm all

What? Do I have outstanding questions from you? Can you point me to them, or do I have to go digging?

I love how someone claims day one and everyone is so quick to buddy up with him.

Pretty useful tool for town. Even if you could say with 100% certainty that he was scum, I'd still recommend keeping him around just to get twice as many town-controlled lynches.
In other words, we'd look elsewhere for a lynch, and leave cabd alone.

HolySpiritTurtle is GuyInFreezer

Oh! I think I've actually played with GuyInFreezer before.

Ugh, also now I realize that people ending sentences with "GIF" have been referring to Turtle. Thanks, that's not confusing.
I'm literally not going to refer to anybody by their username for the rest of the thread. Fuck

all

of you.

[Whiskers]

I'm quite disappointed that Cabd would do something that made us all put him in the "deal with this later" pile, and then post basically nothing with his town claimed status while temporarily untouchable as we all wait for this great future event.

Like somehow we've written him off as a lynch target for the last 20 pages and he doesn't use this opportunity to post any reads. Or post almost anything at all, for that matter.

Remember, some people don't spend every waking hour on Mafiascum.net. If someone has posted in the last 24 hours, they're definitely not lurking.

Instead of catching up i got distracted and made my profile picture of Grape-kun the penguin.

...RIP?

Hi, i read the recents pages and nothing really stands out that much

This is my catch up btw.

Yeah, frankly.

[Whiskers]

@gerry:
The only question you've asked me directly, as far as I can find, is "why did you answer my question with a question?" in

url=viewtopic.php?p=9674212#p9674212]post 556[/url], where you A) hadn't asked me a question yet, and B) quoted my post that didn't contain me asking a question of you, only statements.

Since then you've started demanding I "answer your questions" and saying I'm scum because I didn't, and prompting others to vote me for it, and now that I'm active, you actually are voting for me.
Do you want to actually

ask

your question, yet?

[Whiskers]

EBWOP: Post 556

[Whiskers]

I don't know if I'm accusing Cabd of scum lurking.

I am just disappointed he didn't use his position to throw his weight around more.

Also this game has been unusually devoid of alignment indicative content, which makes the double lynch less great.

There's still plenty of time to "throw his weight around." I don't think there's any need to panic. Day phases are 7 days long.

Also I'd like to remind you that it's Day phase 1. There probably won't

be

much alignment-indicative content. But, it's a great time to make associations and interact with people. Now is when we lay the foundation for catching scum during the rest of the game.

[Whiskers]

I'm unwilling to vote for Axel and Cabd at the moment.

People who think I'm scum for wanting to policy lynch someone who, at the time, was straight up refusing to read the thread (on a 5 day old account, nonetheless) have weird mafia styles. Since when is it bad to push someone who's anti town, regardless of alignment?

(Who are you talking to here?)

[Whiskers]

You strike me as the type of player who like to tick "agree" or "disagree" and mostly questions things if people disagree with them. Would you say this is accurate?

I wouldn't, actually. It's sometimes important to scrutinize people who "agree" for the wrong reasons, or even "agree" with something that someone else has already posted (not just sheeping, but restating another person's reasons as their own original ideas.)

Of course, that's if I'm even understanding your question. I like to "tick" it? Can you rephrase?

[Whiskers]

Nauci is noob. if you still think she's a problem, attempt lynch tomorrow. Not inherently scummy nor more scummy than many we've seen.

she seems more newb than noob but why should I not push her today but pushing her tomorrow is ok?

Because we don't have any information on her yet and can get more grounded reads? This is a noob player who is sloppy because they're noob. Just like Alisae can't tell if my behaviour is out of character because she doesn't know my personality, we can't tell if Nauci is acting scummy, because she has no meta. By Day 2 we can examine her interactions from toDay, using the flips we get for information. Right now, she's as good as a random lynch, and there are

actually

scummy people floating around who we could lynch today instead. Hell, there are even better

policy lynches,

if for some reason it were to come down to that.
"we have more information Day 2 than Day 1" seems like it should go without saying.

Why did you decide to answer my question with a question?

What question did this refer to, Nero?

[Whiskers]

I don't know if I'm accusing Cabd of scum lurking.

I am just disappointed he didn't use his position to throw his weight around more.

Also this game has been unusually devoid of alignment indicative content, which makes the double lynch less great.

There's still plenty of time to "throw his weight around." I don't think there's any need to panic. Day phases are 7 days long.

Also I'd like to remind you that it's Day phase 1. There probably won't

be

much alignment-indicative content. But, it's a great time to make associations and interact with people. Now is when we lay the foundation for catching scum during the rest of the game.

1. Have you played Mafia on other sites?
2. 24 hours, hours earlier: that is when Cabd claims they will be confirmed.
3. you want to lynch me because I am not a team player?

1. Yes. I came from Myth-Weavers where I played mafia in about 2010 or 2011, then I came here. I've also played on EM, which is kind of awful, and had a one-night stand with town of salem because friends invited me, and that was explicitly awful.
2. Am I supposed to respond to this statement?
3. I want to lynch you because you're annoying. For as much as you bitched about the long thread, you sure had a lot of useless chatter upon entrance to it. Be less anti-town-- you're well on your way.

Why did you choose to quote this post to ask these? Each point on your numbered list here seems unrelated to my post you quoted.

[Whiskers]

I'm unclear on the basis for the pressure on me. Jumped up to 3 votes from 0 (not counting idle parties).
Last I checked, Nero's vote is because I didn't answer a question (which I think should have been obvious, let's see his followup for why it was as important as he's made it out to be,) Alisae's vote is a stale OMGUS from 10+ pages ago, so all that's really left is beeboy's, I guess.
beeboy: what's the deal?

[Whiskers]

Um no?
My vote is because you absolutely cannot SR me and want to pl Quick at the same time
That says you are okay with either lynch
you cannot have the best of two worlds in this situation here and the way you go about it is extremely scummy.

That sounds like an OMGUS to me.

Also, why can't I both read you as scum and want to PL quick? Name one thing that makes those mutually exclusive? Also, "okay with either lynch," not only is this

not

scummy,

we actually get two lynches so I could potentially have them both today,

if voting went the way I wanted it to.

Quick was obnoxious, and you were like, top-percentile scummiest at the time we had an altercation. (Remember? When you accused me of being scum based on something that isn't indicative of scum?)

Meanwhile, like I said in a recent post, Quick's posts after actually integrating into the town have been far less bad than his first several pages of posts where he was just bickering with you.

Ok so to recap, your scumread on me is, "Whiskers cannot POSSIBLY have a scumread on me AND think Quick is annoying! >:O"

[Whiskers]

I agree with what Alisae said about the way you approach your read.

What read?
And, remember, all Alisae said about it was, "the way you go about it is extremely scummy." Can you tell me what it means? I'll gladly ask Alisae after you, because it's incredibly vague and she should probably explain it, but I want

you

to answer, because how can

you

agree with something as vague as this? What about the way I "approach my read" is "extremely scummy," beeboy?

[Whiskers]

I mean you can, its just your approach doesn't look like one that comes from town. It doesn't look like a read that was formed naturally

What about my approach "doesn't look like it comes from town"?
How can you discern whether a read was formed naturally or not? What makes you think you can tell?

Also do you know what that buzzword is even for because it just looks like you're talking out of your ass

What buzzword? Was I even using a buzzword...?

I saw your join date and then saw that you said that you said day phase is a week. Normally day phases on this site are 2 weeks. So I assumed that you had played on another site(s) where shorter day phases are more common. I asked this to see if my hunch was correct, and it was.

Yeah, except I've played a vast majority of games here. I played like 3 games of forum mafia offsite, (EM and ToS don't count), and that was almost a decade ago.

If you read the rules, you'd note that Days in this game are a week long.

I wanted to see how you would respond to 2. Its a Null/Scum response. Reason for this is that I questioned whether Cabd would be able to "throw their weight around" if it was a gambit knowing that in a semi-short time (24 hours from hours ago) that we were going to find out whether the claim was legit or not. You didn't connect the dots or chose not to take the fact into account that we will know if its a gambit or not in several hours. In short, it kinda looks like you have inside info on something about Cabd's claim that you are not sharing. How you are not suspending your belief on whether its a true claim or gambit is what I am looking at.

Where did you question that? Certainly not in the post where you asked me two questions in a numbered list. You simply restated what Cabd said (albeit your phrasing was strange).

"The sky, the sky is blue."

Since I

have

been reading the thread, I knew this already. I don't have extra, outside information about the role, I've just been paying attention.

Why do you think you are justified lynching me because I am annoying?

Do I look like I'm voting you?

What if I am a PR who has to claim because you don't like me?

This is a bad argument that literally any player in the game could make.

I haven't played with you as far as I am aware so you have no business trying to push a PL on me either.

That's unrelated. You could be my mother and it would have no impact on whether or not you'd be suitable for a policy lynch. Familiarity has nothing to do with it.

"and interact with people" this is why I asked the last question. I don't play Mafia to be social.

You cannot play mafia without interacting with people. The interactions between players is what makes playing the game possible, apart from a purely mechanical standpoint. Arguably, you could only post a "bump" post every time you get prodded by the mod. Otherwise, you're interacting with people, whether you do it "to be social" or not.

[Whiskers]

Since then you've started demanding I "answer your questions" and saying I'm scum because I didn't, and prompting others to vote me for it,

and now that I'm active, you actually are voting for me.
Do you want to actually ask your question, yet?

this feels like an overreaction and overly angry. I mean, that's mostly how you sort people, by asking them questions.

But in my eyes, you hadn't asked any yet. I asked you a question that I felt was important. You didn't respond b/c either/or you got offline as soon as I asked or you are scum that didn't want to respond. [/quote]

I clearly didn't go offline as soon as you asked, which you can tell because I was still active in the thread at the time.

So yes, I'm going to

DEMAND

that you answer my question and

there's nothing wrong with that

. I didn't really ask anyone to vote you and I'm not all that sure why you would say I did.

A couple pages into my catchup you started going "I think whiskers is scummy, she hasn't answered my questions yet," and then started asking people, "who would you lynch? A, B, or Whiskers?" (I don't remember who, not important rn)

The underlined makes me feel weird. It's a little pushback and it looks like its designed to push the narrative that I'm lurking or something.

It's the "or something" category, I've been saying all game we literally can't have lurkers yet, although I think we're approaching that point. No, it was designed to push the narrative that you hadn't asked me any questions yet, which tbf I hadn't actually realized you had.

What question did this refer to, Nero?

I had asked the 2iam voters who else they'd lynch. You then asked me who I'd lynch (despite the fact that

I've been pretty vocal with my reads

and it was kinda confusing why you'd ask unless you weren't reading my posts.) I was curious why you'd deflect away. You've still yet to answer who you'd lynch beside 2inamill.

There are so many aliases for Two In A Million that chances are I didn't register that this applied to me. I asked you who you'd lynch because I townread you. (And tbh, I did townread you up until the point where you started pressing me to answer your questions-- and even then I can recognize that the other shoe dropping was just my immediate reaction to OMGUS.) It wasn't a deflection.

I'm pretty sure I've been open with my reads, too.

Like just let me explain what I was seeing from my end,
You: "Whiskers, why should we not lynch a newbie Day 1?" I thought that was kind of self explanatory and possibly even rhetorical. I didn't answer it because I didn't think it needed answered."
You: "Why did you answer my previous question with a question?" I had no idea what you were referring to here, assumed you must have been mistaken about something, and ignored it. (I also assumed you'd ask it again, which you finally just did).

It wasn't meant to be deflection. TO ANSWER YOUR ORIGINAL QUESTION, at the time I would have been willing to lynch Alisae and Joey, had we needed to lynch right then and there. If you want reads, I can give you a list, let me read through some stuff and update them for you.

[Whiskers]

Whiskers OMGUS is a buzzword

No. Remember when I attacked you yesterday (real time), after you accused me over something that's not indicative of scum?
Remember when you got mad and voted me in return? That's what I'm referring to as an OMGUS.

Also your approach does not come from town because its completely ignoring our interactions and it doesn't look like you are interested in sorting that slot.

"Our interactions" meaning yours and mine? What am I ignoring about them?

[Whiskers]

Also what slot is "that slot"? You need to use more antecedents.

[Whiskers]

Edit by way of post

Since then you've started demanding I "answer your questions" and saying I'm scum because I didn't, and prompting others to vote me for it,

and now that I'm active, you actually are voting for me.
Do you want to actually ask your question, yet?

this feels like an overreaction and overly angry. I mean, that's mostly how you sort people, by asking them questions.

But in my eyes, you hadn't asked any yet.

I asked you a question that I felt was important. You didn't respond b/c either/or you got offline as soon as I asked or you are scum that didn't want to respond.

I clearly didn't go offline as soon as you asked, which you can tell because I was still active in the thread at the time.

[Whiskers]

My interactions with Quick
Like the point is
I don't think you are interested in sorting

that slot

What

slot???

[Whiskers]

We are killing the crazy cat lady. Next 4 votes get town cred, after that its a bus.

Thoughts on my response?

[Whiskers]

My interactions with Quick
Like the point is
I don't think you are interested in sorting

that slot

What

slot???

Quick...

Ok, I wanted to lynch

"that slot"

when he was being an obnoxious asshole, whining about how useless everything had been, refusing to read the thread, and spamming a lot with you. I mentioned a policy lynch because others had mentioned a policy lynch.

I certainly can't tell you if he's "acting out of character," which is what you seem to base most of your reads on, but I

can

tell you if someone is being anti-town, and I

can

tell you if someone is being unnecessarily abrasive. I don't like it when people come in and immediately start being conceited assholes. I don't want them in my games.

I would even go so far as to entertain the idea of "policy lynching" those players to avoid having to play with them.

They're miserable to be around. If you think that's indicative of scum, lynch me.
I'll state for the third time, his posts have improved.

[Whiskers]

like Whiskers is intentionally avoiding pushing ppl and just bandwagoning. I'm so happy I found scum.

Good to know all the pushing people I've done so far counts for nothing, but ok.
(I will admit to "just bandwagoning" though, I sheeped

[Whiskers]

like Whiskers is intentionally avoiding pushing ppl and just bandwagoning. I'm so happy I found scum.

Good to know all the pushing people I've done so far counts for nothing, but ok.
(I will admit to "just bandwagoning" though, I sheeped a townread because my own push wasn't getting anywhere.)
Which reminds me,

Unvote

[Whiskers]

You are actually going for easy lynches...

care to support this claim?

[Whiskers]

"Other people were mentioning pl, why don't I bring it up too"
Like that soooooooo comes off as reading the table and just putting Quick in your lynch list because its easy

you're fucking

killing

me.

I don't have a "lynch list," I didn't even push or vote him, for christs sake 9__9 I was in the middle of catch-up posting.
My "desire to lynch Quick" was so infinitesimally small that I didn't even move my weak vote from a dead wagon onto him.
I'm finished with this.

[Whiskers]

Cloudie why do you tr whiskers?

Who's "Cloudie"?

[Whiskers]

I think I misspoke. Whiskers repl to me isn't really full of bullshit...it just seems kinda safe. Like, idk...the crux of the argument is that I asked her questions, she didn't respond b/c she she is claiming that she didn't see my questions. And this just seems like a case of he said she said and it'll go in circles.

But in my eyes, you hadn't asked any yet.

this is bullshit. I was clearly asking you multiple questions in 556.

You asked me

one

question in that post. Like I said, why even respond to "why not lynch noobs day 1?" That's really obvious stuff that you learn in a Newbie game. Nauci was noobtelling, not scumtelling, no reason to push a lynch. Again, the "Why did you andswer my question with a question" doesn't count, because I wasn't aware you

had

asked me a question by that point, and so it didn't make any sense to me.

It didn't look important.

And tbh, I did townread you up until the point where you started pressing me to answer your questions

Why does my wanting you to answer my questions change your read on me?

Because, as I explained in the post you're quoting, I got the OMGUS when you started pressuring me. I haven't played mafia for a while and I freaked out a little.

I'm willing to admit that I had some selective memory. I didn't really remember her Joey and Alisae pushes. I've felt like both UC and two were both weak wagons and I think there was scum there.

UC is probably noobtelling and TwoInAMillion was just a wagon I sheeped onto because my townreads were on. Joey and Alisae are also admittedly probably weak pushes, since it's Day 1 and we don't have much to work with. I recognize there's a likelihood that they

aren't

scum, just people who rubbed me the wrong way.

I've got work and then a laser treatment today, but after that I'll catch up and get you a full list of updated reads, ok? Nothing is incredibly strong, but my lynch preference still goes to Alisae.

I do want to say though, while I was "freaking out," I looked at the wagon, and everybody on my wagon seems to be scumreading each other. I think there's an incredible likelihood of finding scum within.

[Whiskers]

whiskers are you an alt or something, you remind me of someone

remind me of rob but less retarded

Do not use slurs like this. This is an official warning.

To be fair, its a modern DSM diagnosis

Let's not and say we didn't, yo.

I'm frankly sad that this is considered a slur.
Now is obvo not the right place to bring it up but honestly it's less caustic than calling someone "autistic" with the same vitriol, which is far more commonplace now...

[Whiskers]

my lynch preference still goes to Alisae.

Do you think Alisae's flip gives you the most data to go from?

Like... hearing Alisae is confirmed town, does that change your reads much?

Wah

No not really. There's stuff to analyze but I guess nothing leaps out from memory as obvious conclusion if Ali flipped town. Maybe we could consider it a validation of her read on "Cloudie," whoever that is, but IMO her reasoning is faulty so probably not.

[Whiskers]

votecount 1.23

Not voting (6) - Shiro, I Am Innocent, Joey_, UC Voyager, Nauci,

Whiskers

Why?

I recently unvoted because people were asking me about my scum reads and my vote wasn't on one. I'm null on Two in a Million. I'll vote after I post reads-- after work.

I didn't realize how few reads Quick had until Nero pointed it out. I'd like to see him try to post summary style like I am if he's not fond of what comes out of constantly sitting in front of the thread.

I must be misunderstanding what alisae is saying about quick, because there is no way he's a policy lynch.

There's a lot of votes on whiskers, but I don't remember where they came from or why they got there. Cabd made a good catch with the lack of vote, however.

Beeboy keeps asking me why I scum read him. I think he's capable of making better pushes. What's more important now is that my scum read is a big deal to him.

do you know that one of them came from you? Do you know how yours got there?
I don't like the bit about "cabd made a good catch," I unvoted pretty damn recently and there's nothing to read about it. Imo this is sucking up to cabd.

Whats your read on me now, Whiskers?

Like I said, why even respond to "why not lynch noobs day 1?" That's really obvious stuff that you learn in a Newbie game.

I don't think there's going to be any big difference between d1 and d2. I mean it's not like our flips are going to be a really good indication of her alignment. Sure, there's the chance she gets investigated or something wich eh...she has the exact same % that we all had of being sent a red pm and I'm not really keen on the "hey, lets not lynch a scummy person so they can get investigated tonight!" idea.

There will be a huge difference between day 1 and 2, are you crazy? Every day gives more info, all the time you spend talking to people let's you get reads-- this is literally how mafia works, why do I need to coach you on this?

[Whiskers]

Sorry, skipped one: I townread you. My omgus was an omgus-- an emotional reaction

[Whiskers]

First, the fact that they are not questioning the double day thing

I definitely question the "Double Day" thing, since nobody but you has ever said it, but you DO keep saying it. Why is that?
Meanwhile, I have no reason to question the claim further. This has been discussed to death already.
BTW, here's a good reason not to question the claim:

My point was that, as I stated before, I am pretty sure Cabd is Town unless the role is BS and helps Scum out a ton with a double day. Also, Cabd seemed pretty confident that it's going to clear them, so I see no reason to suspect Cabd until what SHOULD happen, doesn't.

Second, they said they wanted to PL me when they haven't even played with me bofore

What does having played with you have to do with anything. I have played with none of you. That has no bearing on a policy lynch. Why do you keep pressing this point?
And

if

my offhand comment about policy lynching you was somehow related to how well I know you, why would that be indicative of scum?
Also, I mentioned once that a lynch on you would be acceptable as a policy lynch. A lot of people are construing this as "Pushing a lynch on an easy target" (Alisae's claim), or "wanting to policy lynch," which, like I've said, was such a strong desire that I didn't even move off of a weak, sheeped wagon onto you.

To say that I legitimately wanted to policy lynch you is misrepresenting me.

Third, they are more concerned with defending themselves than pushing their Scum reads. You can see this in the tone and language that they use. Its just off and doesn't ring like they are innocent.

People are attacking, I'll defend (it's quick and easy). When I have the time, I'll go through ISOs and compile reads and a case on my favorite. I pushed reads earlier in the Day, in the thread that you didn't read. They didn't gain any traction. The phase is several days long, so there's no harm in joining a wagon driven by a unanimous townread. In the end, it's probably not a wagon of mine that goes to lynch, but a wagon that a unanimous townread drives. That's perfectly acceptable to me on Day 1.

[Whiskers]

I'm actually kind of ok with this though, because I feel like when I flip you're going to have a lot to analyze and there'll be a lot of good information. Like I said, the wagon on me is comprised of players who are scumreading each other. While it'll suck to be out of the game, I'm confident the aftermath of my lynch is going to be

juicy.

[Whiskers]

why do I need to coach you on this?

You don't but you could make that argument for ANYONE. So why is it specifically important to not lynch/push Nauci today? 'cause she's new and is pretty likely to come off as scummy? Are you suggesting a nl?

No, you can't make it for ANYONE, because Nauci is new we have the least information on her and how she plays. We can't dive into her previous games, we can't ask Alisae how her secret main account plays, we can ONLY observe her BEHAVIOUR and judge her INTERACTIONS with players in THIS GAME. Nauci is Brand Spanking New.

If you have a problem with this, I suggest you look at my earlier vote on UC Voyager, because

that's

where I think you can turn this point into an attack on me-- you could argue that

that

vote was inconsistent with my stance here.

[Whiskers]

First, the fact that they are not questioning the double day thing

I definitely question the "Double Day" thing, since nobody but you has ever said it, but you DO keep saying it. Why is that?
Meanwhile, I have no reason to question the claim further. This has been discussed to death already.
BTW, here's a good reason not to question the claim:

My point was that, as I stated before, I am pretty sure Cabd is Town unless the role is BS and helps Scum out a ton with a double day. Also, Cabd seemed pretty confident that it's going to clear them, so I see no reason to suspect Cabd until what SHOULD happen, doesn't.

I am pretty sure this is MY position on the double day thing and not YOU. If you would like to provide a quote that came from you where you talk about being skeptical of the claim, then do so. As far as I can see, your position is heavily favoring that the double day thing will in fact happen. You've made stances saying such. Why make a stance on it at all if you are skeptical in the first place? My initial reason for believing the claim was that I had no knowledge that that the player in question is likely to pull a gambit like this. With that new information, it changes my perspective drastically. I assume you have come across the same information as I regarding the player in question, and yet, you show little doubt that its a true claim and have even made a stance that there is going to be a double day. You show a lack of doubt which is not a Town characteristic, but a Scummy one.

Idfk what you're talking about, I'm

not

skeptical of the claim. I'm on the same side as you here. I don't see any reason to question it right now. Cabd has he revealed what it supposedly does, says he can prove it, and I think it's probably a town-utility role.
I'm skeptical of "Double Day" because nobody is using that terminology but you.

That's noteworthy.

[Whiskers]

Wait, what?
I'm confused. I showed a lack of doubt, but you're calling my skeptical (literally, opposites). You, meanwhile, were apparently initially skeptical, but then "because you know the player might pull that gambit as scum," are no longer skeptical? I was the first one to suggest a player might pull that gambit as scum, Cabd agreed with me. That information is obvious: sometimes scum make a gambit.
But

my

lack of doubt is somehow indicative of scum, where

your

lack of doubt is not? Explain.

Also what do you mean by "You've made stances," and "why make a stance," I was the one who pushed Cabd to go from a PR-claim to a softclaim. Cabd agreed with my reasoning and did so. Cabd and I are on the same wavelength here, I'm pretty sure.

[Whiskers]

but we still won't know her alignment d2. If your argument is that we can't lynch her on d1 b/c we don't have information on her tendencies then I don't see how that's going to change over a night phase.

We will have more information day 2.
You... you

do

know how mafia works, right?

[Whiskers]

Like literally we will have a whole Day Phase's worth of information and two (or three?) flips to analyze, which is 100% more information on her than we have now. You pressuring Nauci is a shot in the dark at best. You're far more likely to be able to make a case later-- as early as Day 2.
Again, why do you need to be told this?

[Whiskers]

Well, you should be skeptical considering the playstyle of Cabd, which you completely ignore.

Why should I be skeptical? If I should, why shouldn't you? You say Cabd's claim that he might do this as scum made you stop doubting-- you were no longer skeptical once you had the information that I considered obvious. So, we both have the information, and are both not-skeptical. Explain why that's scummy for me and not for you.

Also, idfk anything about Cabd's "playstyle," nor do I have any interest in knowing his, or yours, or anybody else's. Playstyle "meta" analysis is far too risky a business for far too much work in the vast majority of cases. I'm not going to "consider his playstyle," because that's really stupid. Instead, I considered what scum might do. Cabd could admit that he does that, or he could claim that he'd never do that, but it doesn't change the fact that SCUM MIGHT DO IT which was the important part.

I call it a double day because that is basically what it is. Its a way to get 2 lynches in a single day, hence double day. I call a game with a vig who shoots a double day as well. I find it Sus that you are trying to turn this on me, tho.

Have you ever considered being specific and accurate with your language instead? It prevents a lot of misunderstandings-- which is inherently beneficial to town.

[Whiskers]

Wait, what?
I'm confused. I showed a lack of doubt, but you're calling my skeptical (literally, opposites). You, meanwhile, were apparently initially skeptical, but then "because you know the player might pull that gambit as scum," are no longer skeptical? I was the first one to suggest a player might pull that gambit as scum, Cabd agreed with me. That information is obvious: sometimes scum make a gambit.
But

my

lack of doubt is somehow indicative of scum, where

your

lack of doubt is not? Explain.

Also what do you mean by "You've made stances," and "why make a stance," I was the one who pushed Cabd to go from a PR-claim to a softclaim. Cabd agreed with my reasoning and did so. Cabd and I are on the same wavelength here, I'm pretty sure.

Where have I expressed a lack of doubt after I learned the kind of player that Cabd is? I never said you WEREN'T skeptical either.

I asked you to point out to me where you were and you didn't.

BECAUSE I'M NOT

[Whiskers]

TRY READING

[Whiskers]

Wait, do you

NOT

believe the claim for some reason? Do you

not

see that Cabd has done the most-pro-town thing with his role? Do you

not

think that he can prove his claim? Do you for some reason think we

shouldn't

wait for him to prove his claim like he says he can?
"Oho, he can prove his claim-- better doubt him really hard! It's not like we'll see for ourselves in mere hours!"

Why the fuck WOULD you be skeptical, HE'S LITERALLY GOING TO PROVE IT IN MERE HOURS and if he doesn't, we're going to roast him for it!

!?!?!?!?

[Whiskers]

whiskers can you vote dunk?

Why? For active lurking? For scumreading all the townies? Or for frequently contradicting himself?

...So, yes, I suppose I can.

Vote: Dunkey

[Whiskers]

super negative-utility claim.

Hmmmm? Explain?

If I say that I want Alisae lynched it really won't be due to my read

Shh, don't say that.
someone will roll a train on your nuts for alluding to a policy lynch.

[Whiskers]

Like I think scum piled on top of Dunker to save Whiskers
Like look how Whiskers voted Dunker
That screams opportunistic to me.

Garrybote gave him an alternative to whatever the fuck he was doing and he took it
That screams that Whisker is faking his scumhunting.
If anything he should be voting me because that makes the most sense with his stances if he's town.

I'll gladly pile on you, if I thought we could get a lynch through.

Garry asked so I did a quick ISO of Dunk to see what I thought. It's all one-line posts, plenty of filler, a lot of unbased claims. Plus the bit about Joey, "This is locktown," followed by "I was joking" followed much later by "I wasn't joking."

Plus, I didn't have a vote on anybody. Cabd and Nero Cain actually gave me shit for that, so I figured I may as well move my vote onto a wagon.

I

is

pretty opportunistic, but self-preservation is not alignment-indicative, so.

[Whiskers]

We will have more information day 2.

yes, the exact same info as everyone else. More interactions, more posts, and flips.

yeah but listen, if we have 0 information on Nauci, (which might be untrue, there may be a newbie game or something idk,) at the start of Day 2 we will have 100% more information on her than we did at the start of Day 1. Furthermore, she will have 100% more experience.
For reference, I have played a bunch of games. You could easily trawl up some information on me from my past games, how I play, what my tendencies are, what I like to do as town and scum, or whatever pleases you... so if i've played a whole bunch of games, you don't get 100% more information, because this one Day is only a small percentage of Days I've played. Similarly, 1 Day will not amount to 100% of my experience with the game.

It will be easier to separate scumtells from noobtells by Day 2 (and every subsequent Day), and any flips on players she's interacted with will make it easier to make a case on her-- be it for scum or for town.

[Whiskers]

There ARE people that are saying "Hey, let's wagon Alisae"
There IS support for it.
Sure it may not be their most favorite fucking read but there IS support for it.
So fucking do it, lead it, and fucking lynch me

There's a bunch of pressure on me right now, why would I lead it? And, what's the rush? You'll still be mafia at the end of the day.

[Whiskers]

but self-preservation is not alignment-indicative, so.

My interest is piqued

Ask me about it, I'll gladly explain my thoughts.

[Whiskers]

Or rather mafia

this is a slip.

[Whiskers]

I'm not really buying into this "but we'll have more info on her d2!". We won't

KNOW

anything unless we know her alignment and there are only two ways to go about that. A lynch or investigation.

ok-- if you can only catch scum by seeing what they flip or by Cop investigation, then you are a slave to mechanics and probably shouldn't be playing mafia, poker, or chess.

[Whiskers]

Ok I think Cabd is a Dayvigi
Apparently I heard recently that an SK can have a dayvig, however SK is a terrible role and I think Pie is a decent enough game designer to not put one in.

congrats, you've come to the same conclusion I had on page 8.

[Whiskers]

Like if Cabd is the SK he lost the game already imo

If I'm an SK why the everloving fuck do i do literally anything I did today lol.

EXACTLY

Exactly.

[Whiskers]

but self-preservation is not alignment-indicative, so.

Were you presenting that statement as absolutely true in all circumstances?

No.

It isn't alignment indicative to want to stay alive. We each know our own roles, as such any lynch is better than ourselves.
Yes, yes, there are cases where that is not true, like when there is a confirmed townie, or (even in my case) where one's own flip will reveal a lot of information to town. Nevertheless, I don't feel insecure about the fact that I might not want to be lynched Day 1.

Tbh I wrote "self-preservation instinct" but that didn't sound right. I also tried "preservation instinct" which didn't mean the right thing. When I settled on "self-preservation," I lost the nuance about it being instinctual. Now, a few minutes later, I realize "Survival Instinct" was the phrase I should have gone for.

Or rather mafia

this is a slip.

Do tell[/quote]
it reads to me like a slip.
>_>

[Whiskers]

Whiskers, I know where my vote is. I can't tell if being unable to track the rest of the votes on you comes from nefarious motivations or the pace of the game. I'm assuming the latter.

You reply to very much but say very little, and you don't follow up your reads very well with your accusations.

I am not good at following my reads/accusations. I have a tendency to ask questions and then forget about them. My prodding doesn't usually go very deep. It's just not what I'm good at.
I am, however, pretty good at stirring up the pot and getting people to talk to me, if I may say so myself.

Right now, I don't have very good reads. I have some pretty strong townreads and I think Alisae is an asshat who is contradicting himself and using a lot of bad attacks (mostly on me). I like him for a lynch. Right now, I like sheeping onto a wagon even better.

@Cabd and Gerry and others:
What do we get out of the kill if Dunk flips town?

[Whiskers]

I don't see "day" as explicitly non normal, but it is not explicitly listed as normal.

This. Vig is normal, Dayvig is an acceptable normal variant of Vig, I read this all on the wiki when we were on page 8.

>__>

[Whiskers]

You can't just play like scum and then say it's okay because that's how you play.

I'm pretty sure that's what my whole early exchange with Alisae was about. He and I were doing the same thing, but Whooooa, mine was sooooo scummy, because for Joey, "That's just how he acts"

[Whiskers]

Ok can't we stop talking about dayvigis now.
Cabd is a dayvigi
He is town once he shoots
End of convo
Nothing to talk about

Glad to see you agree with me, circa page 8.

[Whiskers]

I can't believe people like Quick fucking gave me flak for "having special information" about Cabd's role, and it's just that I actually read the thread and now everybody else is also realizing it.

Whiskers

I'm pretty sure I already talked about this but your whole obfuscation thing wreaks of a similar hypocrisy.

If Joey's getting away with the same thing you aren't it's probably because you're louder

I don't believe you talked about that, no. Care to go into more detail?

Joey was getting away with "being angry" which is

totally

faked and scummy when I do it, but when he does it is perfectly fine. I'm still salty about this, yes. But! You just told me that I can't just claim "it's my personality," and get off scot free, so maybe you shouldn't let Alisae use a double standard to pardon Joey because "it's his personality"

[Whiskers]

I honestly don't think it benefits mafia at all to enter the way Whiskers did in this scenario even though there's a bunch of fake towniness that can be gained from those approaches.

So WIFOM, but WIFOM?

Btw LQ your posting has been getting better :3

Glad to see you agree with me, circa ~10 pages ago (when you were accusing me of pushing his policy lynch).

A few more days of this and we're going to be indistinguishable.

[Whiskers]

In short, it kinda looks like you have inside info on something about Cabd's claim that you are not sharing.

This is what I actually said, which you refuted having any more info about the claim than anyone else. I just don't see how if you DON'T have any more info than anyone else that you can be so sure that:

1) The claim is legit knowing the kind of player Cabd is and 2) That the role has to come from Town.

1, I don't know the claim is legit, but Cabd claims he can prove it. Whether that means town or scum is irrelevant: Cabd either can prove it, or lied.
Knowing what kind of player Cabd is makes no difference on the claim. Also, I don't know what kind of player Cabd is. Luckily, that has no bearing on anything.
2, If you wonder why the role has to come from town, try questioning, say, Alisae, who just came to that conclusion. (also Turtle and Nero, who seem to be satisfied with the claim now.)
In other words, I applied basic logic and made some assumptions which won't need to be questioned until later Phases, and

certainly

not until we see if Cabd really can prove his role.

[Whiskers]

I think Whiskers reaction to Axle is extremely faked tonally and is just overblowing what axle was doing.
If Whiskers was like that in all of his posting, then yeah I don't think this point would be AI
But I feel like that vote was super overblown.

that was literally my first post.
Since you obviously didn't go on to read any of my meta to support your claim, it was baseless.

Since then, you been given a reasonable sample size of my posts. Do you feel my tone has been consistent? (since you say "IT'S FAKED!!" every time I say anything, starting from post 1?)

[Whiskers]

where him wanting to PL you is that mafia-indicative

can somebody point out the posts where I allegedly wanted to PL Quick?
(also @Rhah, I agree that a lot of Mafia is divining through the WIFOM, but I think calling the buzzword is an apt description there. "I don't think mafia would do X, except that that would make them look town.")

Well, I don't believe in LaL so I think you can see how this complicates things. I think Town and Scum can both lie about things regarding their role. He could be pulling a gambit, I'm not convinced he's not because in order to be convinced of that you have to be making assumptions, which I am not willing to do - especially when it comes to playing with a player who is a bit of a wildcard.

I didn't necessarily say lynch all liars. But if he lied, then he's in a tough fucking spot, because he arguably hasn't done much else (so far, it's only the second day of the game) and his claim has been a major topic of discussion, from which a lot of reads are based directly or indirectly. Whether or not Liar!Cabd gets immediately lynched, he'd be in a lot of hot water.

And btw, you have to make assumptions. Otherwise you're a slave to mechanics and probably shouldn't be playing mafia, poker, or chess.

[Whiskers]

Also it doesn't matter if Cabd's roleclaim is a town role or a scum role until he proves that role. Until he proves the role, we can't really analyze it. If he lied and cannot prove the role, there's no point in analyzing it anyway.

That's

why I'm not skeptical,

that's

why I feel no reason to dig or pressure him about it.

We don't benefit in analyzing the role UNTIL he proves it IF he's telling the truth. Anything before that is wasting time and spamming.

[Whiskers]

As I stated earlier, the idea that if you have played this game a while, you would prolly know that in your early game pushes there is no guarantee that people will follow you. Whiskers has said that they "gave up" pushing their early reads because people were not following their reads. Given what Whiskers says later, which basically summed up is "D1 doesn't matter too much" its illogical (at least) to think this and initially believe its "worth it" to push your early D1 reads. Its a conflict of narrative, which is a big way I read people. If people have a consistent narrative, it doesn't so much say they are Town, but that they have a foundation for themselves how they are playing. If on the other hand, they have an inconsistent narrative, it means they either don't have a foundation for themselves in how they play or are Scum. I think Whiskers has demonstrated that they do understand the fundamentals of the game, so I think they are Scum who can't keep their story straight.

How is "I stopped pushing my early reads" inconsistent with "D1 doesn't matter too much?" Are you saying I should have never pushed my reads at all?

where him wanting to PL you is that mafia-indicative

can somebody point out the posts where I allegedly wanted to PL Quick?

3. I want to lynch you because you're annoying. For as much as you bitched about the long thread, you sure had a lot of useless chatter upon entrance to it. Be less anti-town-- you're well on your way.

Fair enough.

I should point out though, that was in response to Quick asserting that I wanted to lynch him. In other words-- it was his idea, not mine.

[Whiskers]

@Quick
If it helps to put your mind at ease, I haven't played a game here since 2014 (I think)

[Whiskers]

As I stated earlier, the idea that if you have played this game a while, you would prolly know that in your early game pushes there is no guarantee that people will follow you. Whiskers has said that they "gave up" pushing their early reads because people were not following their reads. Given what Whiskers says later, which basically summed up is "D1 doesn't matter too much" its illogical (at least) to think this and initially believe its "worth it" to push your early D1 reads. Its a conflict of narrative, which is a big way I read people. If people have a consistent narrative, it doesn't so much say they are Town, but that they have a foundation for themselves how they are playing. If on the other hand, they have an inconsistent narrative, it means they either don't have a foundation for themselves in how they play or are Scum. I think Whiskers has demonstrated that they do understand the fundamentals of the game, so I think they are Scum who can't keep their story straight.

How is "I stopped pushing my early reads" inconsistent with "D1 doesn't matter too much?" Are you saying I should have never pushed my reads at all?

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying... NOT. Who are you trying to fool with this answer? I am saying your narrative is inconsistent. If this is the best argument you have against what I said, that doesn't look good for you.

How is it inconsistent?! Don't just go "Yes. NOT!" That gives me literally no fucking information! HOW ARE THESE TWO CONSISTENT THINGS INCONSISTENT???

for reference, this is the last game I played, where I was town. viewtopic.php?f=54&t=60239

[Whiskers]

As I stated earlier, the idea that if you have played this game a while, you would prolly know that in your early game pushes there is no guarantee that people will follow you. Whiskers has said that they "gave up" pushing their early reads because people were not following their reads. Given what Whiskers says later, which basically summed up is "D1 doesn't matter too much" its illogical (at least) to think this and initially believe its "worth it" to push your early D1 reads. Its a conflict of narrative, which is a big way I read people. If people have a consistent narrative, it doesn't so much say they are Town, but that they have a foundation for themselves how they are playing. If on the other hand, they have an inconsistent narrative, it means they either don't have a foundation for themselves in how they play or are Scum. I think Whiskers has demonstrated that they do understand the fundamentals of the game, so I think they are Scum who can't keep their story straight.

its illogical (at least) to think this and initially believe its "worth it" to push your early D1 reads.

Whiskers has said that they "gave up" pushing their early reads

"D1 doesn't matter too much"

You are giving evidence of how everything I say falls in line together and then going "BUT IT INCONSISTENT???"

[Whiskers]

How does it "Fall in line?"

its illogical ... to push your early D1 reads.

So,

they "gave up" pushing their early reads

Because,

"D1 doesn't matter too much"

Preedit: TIAM is a lot more useful than, say, IAI.

That said, his flip will be a little more telling than, say, IAI.

[Whiskers]

I have to PM the shot, not post it ITT....


jesus christ why would you fucking claim if you WERE a mason AGUEGFEUIVHEIUOYTUIRWONYTWRUIPTNYWIUORT

Lololol nice reaction test?

[Whiskers]

It has to do with the way you approach the game before it started. Its either that you didn't think through what you were doing or you are Scum who can't keep their story straight. It HAS to be one of those.

I don't necessarily believe that it HAS to be one of those, but have you considered for a moment that I haven't played mafia for 2-3 years and while I understand the basics might be rusty?
Also, wew, everybody always thinks everything through, like you/Alisae thinking through the claim and understanding it on page 8, or how Rhah didn't just claim mason for both him and TIAM. Glad to see everybody is thinking things through.

preedit:
hoo boy the thread is moving fast.

[Whiskers]

You outed 2 masons you dumb fuck.

Objection.
He didn't out two masons.

You're wasting your breath.

He's not: I'm listening very closely to Turtle.

WHAT THE FUCK LOL. HOW DO YOU SAY THAT SAME EXACT LINE AS SCUM/TOWN IM LITERALLY LOLING RN

because meta analysis doesn't really work like that.

Also while I'm catching up in thread

Vote: Alisae

[Whiskers]

See, I was right, he doesn't have a gun, he has fireworks.

snerk

Nice. That's pretty good XD

Quick if you are town and I have to see that and cooperate with you at some point I need you to actually try cause thinking Cabd isn't conf is just a shitty jerk reaction that doesn't involve thinking.

cooperating has never been my strong suit.
I've been saying a while now that just because a kill goes through doesn't mean he is lock Town. So no, this is not at all some kind of "shitty jerk reaction".

nobody said he was locktown, he's lock-vig.
If you want to argue that it's probably Mafia day-shooter or SK instead of Vig, go right ahead and make a case for that.
Otherwise, we'll just be sitting here playing with occam's razor.

[Whiskers]

nobody said he was locktown, he's lock-vig.

actually i take this back, a bunch of people were treating the claim as lock-town without invoking occam's razor.
But that's why he should be considered lock-town.

[Whiskers]

You think Occam's Razor applies to setups? Cuz I don't. I've seen some pretty shitty setups in my day.

I do. This is normals. The easiest, most-likely explanation is that he's a vig, not a super-bullshit "Bastard" role.

[Whiskers]

So you shared my read and find that scummy, cool

This quote is how I feel about Quick tbh

[Whiskers]

As far as I am concerned, you are not confirmed, buddy.

To me, it seems the role has everything to do with the alignment.

Also,

joey

vote whiskers

i liked his earlier lines

why do you personnally scumread him?

I have few posts and the most recent ones are about my scum read.

Whiskers has overall not been generating reads from his posting. He even admitted this. In addition, we just saw his counterwagon flip town.

Can we PLEASE try to post with some sort of actual attention to the game thread?

I'll get to this, re:reads
The counterwagon thing is a good point and I won't be mad about a Whiskers lynch. Like I said, I think I'm a pretty juicy morsel and that you can prolly find scum based on the earlier wagon (because the people voting me were scumreading each other.)
Actually it's weird, that fact alone would probably indicate that I'm scum.

I know I can't really ask anybody else for reads rn without being a hypocrite, but would somebody consider analyzing the people on my wagon? Like I said,

my wagon comes from many different parties who scumread each other

and I think that's a good bet to find scum.

[Whiskers]

EBWOP

As far as I am concerned, you are not confirmed, buddy.

To me, it seems the role has everything to do with the alignment.

Also,

joey

vote whiskers

i liked his earlier lines

why do you personnally scumread him?

I have few posts and the most recent ones are about my scum read.

Whiskers has overall not been generating reads from his posting. He even admitted this. In addition, we just saw his counterwagon flip town.

Can we PLEASE try to post with some sort of actual attention to the game thread?

[/quote]
I'll get to this, re:reads
The counterwagon thing is a good point and I won't be mad about a Whiskers lynch. Like I said, I think I'm a pretty juicy morsel and that you can prolly find scum based on the earlier wagon (because the people voting me were scumreading each other.)
Actually it's weird, that fact alone would probably indicate that I'm scum.

I know I can't really ask anybody else for reads rn without being a hypocrite, but would somebody consider analyzing the people on my wagon? Like I said,

my wagon comes from many different parties who scumread each other

and I think that's a good bet to find scum.

[Whiskers]

You're saying there's only three scum?

Is this a slip?

[Whiskers]

You're saying there's only three scum?

no?

CABD is not team scum.

Rhah is probs not scum.

Gerry might as well be scum regardless of pm color.

My point is this doesn't really seem like a "counterwagon" as you are suggesting.

You could plausibly say that

if

gerry and I are scum then we hopped on the wagon that town was forming to counter mine, and drove it to "lynch,"

If I am town then Dunk's wagon was made entirely of town (possible exception of gerry), and the scum are elsewhere: in lurkers and

on my wagon.

[Whiskers]

Frankly I don't like any of the members of my wagon (Flubbernugget, Nero Cain, Alisae, beeboy, Quick) reasoning for their votes on me. I think Alisae is still the most dangerous.

I hate to OMGUS beeboy but his reasoning was weak and his vote stayed on me until they reset.
@beeboy: I really want to townread you again. What should I read to let me do that?

[Whiskers]

You could plausibly say that

if

gerry and I are scum then we hopped on the wagon that town was forming to counter mine, and drove it to "lynch,"

If I am town then Dunk's wagon was made entirely of town (possible exception of gerry), and the scum are elsewhere: in lurkers and

on my wagon.

Uh... No?[/quote]
You need to be more detailed here. If [all of these inferred townies] and gerry and I are on the wagon, then

If gerry and I are scum, my wagon is a scum counterwagon.
If gerry and I are town, my wagon was comprised of all town-- ergo, scum was elsewhere.

[Whiskers]

fucking hell, my quotes!

[Whiskers]

I wouldn't say it's "out of the bag". And the situation is not as simple as it appears, and I'm not going any further into it.

@Everybody:
It is important you do not discuss this further, because if I have figured it out, too many people have figured it out.

[Whiskers]

You need to be more detailed here. If [all of these inferred townies] and gerry and I are on the wagon, then

If gerry and I are scum, my wagon is a scum counterwagon.
If gerry and I are town, my wagon was comprised of all town-- ergo, scum was elsewhere.

Sure how's this: Only the sith deal in absolutes.

@Mod: Can I get permission to use a slur here?

[Whiskers]

Quick is really making me want to replace out as well.
It's like he is incapable of reading

and not being an asshole

sorry that part wasn't needed

I disagree

[Whiskers]

It will and do it, you said yourself you like to have a case be explicite so you can trash it, so do mine

So do I, but it's all been vague votes and weak sheeping on my wagon.

shrug

Don't know what to tell you.

Telling me the parts you agree with would be a good start.

Nope, don't feel like it. Besides, I think this line of questioning is quite odd for you.

Aaah, why isn't this lynched yet

Other people doing scumhunting and someone asks Quick a question or to volunteer information and he's all just "No, I don't want to,"
How is this permissible,

ever?

Nope, don't feel like it. Besides, I think this line of questioning is quite odd for you.

What do you even know about me?

You like to fuck around a lot.

Your just conf biasing me at this point, asking you about your reads isn't odd.

Like asking you about your reads is pretty mafia 101, you have 0 game experience with me and your saying asking about your reads is odd.

I've spent almost this entire game trying to get more in depth thoughts out of you ffs.

yes good thank you

actually damn this whole page is pretty good.

viewtopic.php?p=9680279#p9680279
Woo!

viewtopic.php?p=9680284#p9680284
WOO!!

@Axel, I'm gonna answer your question, I didn't skip it, I'm just holding it for after I finish catchup.
In this viewtopic.php?p=9680521#p9680521 You catch the exchange between gerry and Dunk regarding the line, "Is this satire or an actual read?"
What you missed in your post was that Dunk had actually admitted it was sarcasm [/i] earlier[/i] in the Day-- like, shortly after he made his initial "this is locktown" post.

I feel like i never really tried to read axe because hes hard to read, i probably could if i made an effort

I finally figured out what you're referring to when you say "axe"

[Whiskers]

? dude this shit is making me mad

-I told you that you dont explain your reads and you have shitty as reasons to have them
- You then excuse yourself by attacking the fact that i dont articulate mine very well, you do not answer to the premisse of my post
- I answer to you that i wouldnt need you to be articulate if your reads were coherent and had sens (basically idont care if you were articulate or not, thats not the point)
-You come back after the fact that im not articulate, not addressing my point twice in a row

Hurray!!
I am getting out the pom-poms as we speak.

You're a Scum lean because I ISO'd you.

-> This refer to the fact that the reason why i was a scumlean on your list, was because you isod me

Iso of me -> scumlean -> list

im pretty sure you scumlean'd me before you iso'd me and replied "nero's reasons"

-> That refer to the fact that before you isod me, you said you scumread me for Nero's reason, not my iso

Now your thought process looks like this

Nero's reasons -> scum lean -> list -> iso of me -> scum lean

Is that correct?

You are playing semantics here Joey, lets be real now.

He's really not. The first of these is how a read should look, the second one is an example of lazy sheeping followed by confirmation bias.

I think Quick backpedals on his reads when he gets into arguments with people.
He said I was a scum lean despite me being at the bottom of his read list as an act of damage control.

It has nothing to do with getting into arguments with people. It has to do with the fact that when I am arguing with people, I tend to get vibes on them about whether they are being genuine or not.

read "genuine" as "able to argue on or above Quick's level."
Because he sure as fuck didn't backpedal his scumread on me. I'm not capable enough to handle his bullshit.

----
Just hit TIAM saying Joey (the star of the last 5 pages or so) "is't active" etc.
----
viewtopic.php?p=9682517#p9682517
For the record Joey, I haven't actually had you as scum for a while. Not that I've posted my reads recently, but I thought I should mention it.

Why is Flubb a bad wagon, 2 mil?

The people that are on it, for one.

The players that are on it are all town. I'm not seeing why that would make it a bad wagon.

And Quick doesn't seem to care one of his top scum reads is being voted on by an inno child

I don't actually understand this. Why would he care? Why would he need to comment on it? If an ConfTown voted my top scumread, I'd nod and say to myself, "good," and go on with my day.

It's troublesome that you took cabd at face value.

Not at all, since:

the cabd issue was going to resolve itself

And if you aren't playing scared you have realy fucked priorities.

Spoiler: it's the second one.

Now I'm caught up.

[Whiskers]

@Whiskers
Earlier I asked you a question. Shortly after that it got busy, so I expect you missed it.
If its not clear please point out where and i will attempt to clarify.
There is a fair bit of writing the two questions are at the bottom.

If [open the spoiler] and then click on this <<link>> it will jump to the questions.
ta.

Spoiler: The question

@Whiskers

Hi, earlier you said this about me.

Let me just skip a page and a half of posts to Vote: Axle Greaser for being incredibly annoying and unnecessarily obfuscating.

I am fine with that being your opinion I have heard that opinion before. (joey only one of a number)
We are now playing mafia.

---

Here are two posts you made a lot earlier.
I chose earlier on purpose as you were not being wagoned back then.
As balance,

I see the intent of the first as firm but helpful.

@UC villager
It's also completely fucking illegible, please write it out normally so anybody can read/quote it.
Why is there so much spam in this game already?

Axle's first post is the most cancerous shit i have ever seen in my mafia career

wooo, thank you.
Also @UCV, your "fakeclaim in RVS" is going to be used to incriminate you as town or scum later on in the game. It's very very real to breadcrumb during RVS. And if it _is_ fake, you've just introduced a whole extra angle that scum could attack you from, disctracting from

real

scumhunting when we'll need it most. RVS is RVS, but IGMEOU.

Going "I'M NEW HAHA IT WOULD JUST BE

TOOOO

EASY TO MISLYNCH ME! BECAUSE I'M SOOOOO NEW HAHA!" means that

you're self aware that you're scummy

and are trying to avoid lynch for it.

Instead, don't be scummy?

new =/= town???

The second i have some problems with.
I agree: new=/=town.
I agree he is a bit self aware

but I don't agree,

hes self aware he is scummy

. He is self aware that he is new and inexperienced
and like other very new&young players i have seen before that gets new players like that into trouble regularly.

He is not like some town!people who deliberately do scummy stuff as town for variety of reasons. (usually called reaction tests)
Those they could choose not to do.

I expect if he starts another game tomorrow (AKA not an ongoing one) he would likely be considered low hanging fruit in it.
I expect he is self aware of that.

You suggest

"Instead, don't be scummy?"

Two Questions

Do you really think a new player can achieve

Instead, don't be scummy?

Can you explain the intent of that post.

@AxelGreaser:
Yes, I think usually, if a player knows that the thing they're doing is scummy, they can stop doing it. But I went back to read Nero's "push" that UC Voyager was worried about and it was approximately "Looks like scum? Trying to be cute? idk." I reacted to Voyager the way I did 'cause I think it's bad to use "I'm a noob!" as a defense and it rang warning bells in my head. I didn't put much thought into it: Voyager probably

couldn't

have simply "not been scummy" since there wasn't really a specific thing Nero was accusing Voyager of. Although, you

could

argue that Voyager should have been trying to [not play like a newbie].

But no. Mostly I was just annoyed that Voyager had pulled the Newbie Card as a bullshit defense, that he had posted the pink-and-orange text-on-black-background, and was just taking the opportunity to yell at somebody on page 8

UC V currently reads null to me.

[Whiskers]

speaking of UC V and reads,

Masons

TwoInAMillion

- obnoxious and wrong but a mason is a mason, and we have no reason to doubt the claim RN.

Rhah

- largely non-present.

Vig

cabd

- posts look good, not necessarily frequent enough and possibly not enough scumhunting, according to some. Most discussion Day 1.0 was about his own claim (from him and from all others), Day 1.5 cabd's content has dropped considerably.

Town

Turtle

- Consistent hunting throughout, generally good posts, relatively frequent.

beeboy

- Day 1.0 had good posts, scumhunting. Parked a vote on me for reasons I do not understand. While I think there is/was scum on my wagon, I don't think it was bee.

Nauci

- a newbie who I consistently find myself nodding along in agreement to when I read her posts. If anything, her newness makes her seem more earnest. Cats rule!

Joey

- Initial bad reads early on based on his buddying with Alisae. His stuff is pretty good. He follows up (better than I do!) and has been getting frustrated for the same things that I have been, and at the same people. I like it.

Axel

- posts look good when I can read them-- which isn't always. Activity picked up considerably after the shot (Day 1.5) Not a terribly strong read, but I picked up nothing inherently scummy. Early vote was based on formatting/phrasing of a post I couldn't understand.

Gerryout

floats between these two categories. Town lean, but weakly. Feels weird. Suddenly started defending and buddying me partway through Day 1.0. That kind of behavior always makes me wary.

Null

UC Voyager

- posting style ticked me off early and did things like play the Noob Card as defense. Not much content to read IMO, nothing else inherently scummy on them.

Nero Cain

- made a big deal out of my "want to policy lynch quick" which was never stronger than a wish upon a star. Find myself disagreeing with posts often. (No specific examples come to mind, could do an ISO if needed).

(also i kind of forgot

flubbernugget

existed until the wagon happened. afaicr his only content was badvotes on me, so he goes here, too.)

AFK

IAmInnocent
Shiro

Scum Reads

Alisae

- I resent the replacing out because now literally any attack I make on Alisae's slot, the new player can go "oho well, that's just her personality!" or "I don't know what she was thinking, I'm a completely different player!" and never answer for anything. Alisae's logic was faulty, she was very loud and spammed a lot. I made her mad because I pointed out she was a hypocrite, and so she drove my wagon from 0 to the largest and most-persistent wagon of Day 1. Even if you don't read her as scum, I still think this slot is a good lynch, if only to avoid having a player replace in. (That said, we'll still need aplayer to replace IaI? so idfk.)

Quick

- Refuses to work with town, deflects or ignores all questions, is openly caustic and unhelpful, and somehow also isn't lynched. Piggybacked/sheeped Alisae to vote me.

Vote: Quick

I don't think Flub is important enough to push to lynch.

[Whiskers]

made a big deal out of my "want to policy lynch quick" which was never stronger than a wish upon a star

ummmm no I didn't.

Maybe I misremember, then. I'll do an ISO of you.


Oh! Right. You were on me because I had skipped answering your questions.

Meh. I read through the ISO and nothing really leaps out at me. You cast a wide net early on and did some shallow digging (which isn't necessarily a criticism, that's basically how I play too), then later focused in. There's a good deal of spam/filler, but nothing seems particularly heinous. It's not like you were posting filler

instead

of scumhunting/posting content (like Alisae was), instead, it was a comfortable mix throughout.

I think the bit about [lynching newbies or not] is just a viewpoint/playstyle difference. It makes sense to me but not to you-- or, your point makes sense to you. And I get it, but I disagree. I don't think that's indicative of scum, and your initial vote/mini-case on Nauci doesn't even warrant as many posts as we made.

I think your Flubbernugget vote is weak. I think the case you're making against him only works if you first lynch me first.

[Whiskers]

also, from my whole experience in mafia in general, the whole weight of my credibility as a player i dont think that both quick and bee can be mefias here. Having two scumreads who sr eachother doesnt seem really like an efficient way to look at the game

That's why I think my Day 1.0 wagon will be so damn juicy when it pops and you guys finally analyze it.

[Whiskers]

Spoiler: Nero Cain

vote:Flubber

Why do you still im mafia again

I think you were whiteknighting, 2mil.

i dont think he even explained why he fos flubb either

I think Flubb's Whisker vote seems a little "path of least resistance"

Nero why are you pushing flub?

Since you didn't read it the 3 times that said why or the time that Axe echoed my point...I think Flubb calling Whiskers a couterwagon to Dunk is not entirely accurate and it feels like a super easy and low resistance vote to make.

Spoiler: SpiritTurtle

Town:
Nero Cain
Rhah
HST
beeboy
Cabd
gerryoat
Whiskers
Quick
TIAM
Nauci

Middle of the way / don't really care sorting rn:
Alisae

Can die today (aka leftovers):
IAI
Axle
Flubber
Joey_
UCV

Special Exception:
Shiro

VOTE: Flubber

Spoiler: beeboy

Nero where do you want traction?
I feel uneasy being on a Quick and Flubber wagon.

I don't want to be on Whiskers due to Flubber and Quick being on him.
I'd do Flubber lol.

Nero where do you want traction?

maybe joey or Flubber. I'd also be ok with lynching Nauci but apparently, she's a noob and shouldn't be a d1 lynch 'cause...

WAIT FOR IT....


WAIT FOR IT....


She'll have more posts by d2.

I mind I still wouldn't mind a Whiskers lynch but Flub has me a tad worried.

vote:Flubber

VOTE: Flubber
ok.

(Nero posts included for clarity)

Spoiler: Joey

VOTE: flubber i think this might be a mefias bois

Everything by joey after this is him defending himself from Two or Quick

Spoiler: gerryoat

i just want day 1 to be over tbh.

VOTE: flubber

I Do Not Like This Wagon.

[Whiskers]

These are all of Flubbernugget's posts on me, Whiskers, up until the Vig shot happened. Voted me on page 8 and has rested the vote there ever since.

Spoiler: Flub's posts about Me

VOTE: whiskers

So in post 176 you park your vote on me, and that's where it remains for the rest of the Day, it apparently. I'm still not clear why you voted me and IMO you holding onto this vote is pretty evident of confirmation bias. This post is on page 8.

Up to page 19


Despite axel only apparently(?) posting in the Trump thread, whiskers should be able to see his posting style is always obscure. Posts are also frequent but not memorable. I think they're defending themselves by comparing themselves to other players, which is pot and kettle wrt axel and uc

I didn't actually

read

any of the trump posts, I was looking for mafia-related content.

There's a lot of votes on whiskers, but I don't remember where they came from or why they got there. Cabd made a good catch with the lack of vote, however.

This is your next post about me, on page 45.

Nero is making better pushes than whiskers

At the time Nero was making pushes

on

whiskers, who was defending herself because she didn't have time to dig deep into this game.

Whiskers, I know where my vote is. I can't tell if being unable to track the rest of the votes on you comes from nefarious motivations or the pace of the game. I'm assuming the latter.

You reply to very much but say very little, and you don't follow up your reads very well with your accusations.

I'm having trouble tracking the votes on me because a lot of them were like yours-- vague and out of left field.

You can't just play like scum and then say it's okay because that's how you play.

Yes I can. And if you have a problem with me saying that, you should look at Quick, who is [playing like scum] and when challenged on it, goes [that's just how i am, i don't want to socialize, i don't feel like helping town, etc.]

Whiskers

I'm pretty sure I already talked about this but your whole obfuscation thing wreaks of a similar hypocrisy.

If Joey's getting away with the same thing you aren't it's probably because you're louder

I discussed this already. My "obfuscation thing" doesn't reek of hypocrisy, as my posts don't read like a koan. What Alisae did with joey and me was hypocrisy. Luckily, we've had some more since then that I'm not even involved in. (quick and beeboy(?), Joey and Nero (?)) I'm not really sure of the players, I just remember reading it :p)

Honestly, Flubbernugget's bit about the counterwagon is the most solid, most sound reasoning for voting me he's had all game. I

don't

think he's wrong to vote me for that-- I think that, when I flip, town is gonna get a lot to analyze. But I think that's a lucky coincidence for Flubber, since he never really revealed a reason to lynch me

before

that. To remind you: his vote has been on me since page 8.

(Also I'm not in his list of scumreads from a few posts ago, but I think that's just an oversight.)

[Whiskers]

Whiskers, what did you think of Nauci using your defense of her to defend herself while simultaneously calling you scum for it?

She wasn't calling me scum

for it

, she called me scum as a lazy read. I was on a wagon counter to flipped town, and apparently I post too much. She said she'd ISO me later, which I'm confident will be the first ISO of me anybody's done this game. I'm not worried about it: Nauci is town, I like her reads.

I think the case you're making against him only works if you first lynch me first.

Are you saying that you won't flip town?

No, I'm saying that when I die and flip town,

then

and

only then

can you make a case that "Flubber is scum for going to the counterwagon!" Even then, it won't be a strong case.

[Whiskers]

I Do Not Like This Wagon.

ok then i'll join another wagon VOTE: whiskers

admittedly a better wagon than the flubber one.

Wtf quick, you contracdicted yourself and refused to engage with beE's fos, that has nothing to do with your playstyle. Also this

"Instead you are pressuring me because either you are Scum" like how is that even relevant in the context? Even if he was mafia

his case could be legetimate and youd have to address it.

LOLOLOL, haven't you learned yet? Quick never addresses anything!

Don't know what to tell you.

Telling me the parts you agree with would be a good start.

Nope, don't feel like it. Besides, I think this line of questioning is quite odd for you.

Aaah, why isn't this lynched yet

Other people doing scumhunting and someone asks Quick a question or to volunteer information and he's all just "No, I don't want to,"
How is this permissible,

ever?

Its acceptable not to answer when the person asking is confbiasing you, which is pretty apparent from Beeboys push on me.

No, incorrect.
And I could ask you to supply evidence of Beeboy sticking to you due to confirmation bias, but you won't, so I'm not going to bother.

Nope, don't feel like it. Besides, I think this line of questioning is quite odd for you.

What do you even know about me?

You like to fuck around a lot.

Your just conf biasing me at this point, asking you about your reads isn't odd.

Like asking you about your reads is pretty mafia 101, you have 0 game experience with me and your saying asking about your reads is odd.

I've spent almost this entire game trying to get more in depth thoughts out of you ffs.

yes good thank you

actually damn this whole page is pretty good.

You realize Beeboy is just trying to make me the counter wagon to you right?

Cool! I'd love a counterwagon on Quickscum.

[Whiskers]

Third,

they are more concerned with defending themselves than pushing their Scum reads.

You can see this in the tone and language that they use. Its just off and doesn't ring like they are innocent.

Where did I say I am pushing whiskers for being defensive?

I am pretty sure I have stated my reasons for pushing Whiskers and they are not that they are being defensive.

Being defensive is not a Scum tell,

sorry to tell you. And I can't push my reads when A.) I am getting barraged by multi-post after multi-post for why I am Scum and B.) My Scum reads are not in the thread and C.) I don't like to reuse the same arguments over and over.

[Whiskers]

I've been on you since you came in. I'm just glad to see the others have come around and give my scumread some weight.

[Whiskers]

Yeah, I don't think just because you are defending yourself means you are being defensive. Being defensive is a tonal thing. Someone can be defensive and defend themselves OR they can defend themselves and NOT be defensive. You are equating two things as being the same that are not the same thing. I still stand by my statement that being defensive isn't a Scum tell, and I will also say I haven't used the fact that you have been defensive as a reason for why you are Scum.

You are playing semantics here Joey, lets be real now.

[Whiskers]

I like how Quick has no valid argument to reply to how he is pushing Whiskers for a line of reasoning he is calling pure bs so he is just ignoring me

You should really reread these posts:

994, 1136, 1145, 1272

944: you saw my join date (2011), thought I

must

play on another site. "turns out I was right," except that I haven't played on another site since ~2011. Meanwhile, it's not alignment indicative. ALSO, me knowing "Day phases are a week, not two weeks" isn't indicative of me playing on another site, it's

because I read the fucking rules

944: You tried to trap me in a "null/scum response," because I didn't question Cabd's claim. It's been gone over again and again why I didn't need to question Cabd's claim, this point is moot.
944: You try to misconstrue the requirements for a policy lynch. I think I'd be justified in lynching you because you're fucking toxic, but that was never really my intention.

1136: There was no need to question "the double day thing,"
1136: I alluded to a policy lynch while doing a catchup post, but never pushed it. Again, you bring up that "we haven't even played together before!!" which isn't a requirement for a policy lynch.
1136: I didn't have the time to push scumreads that day. Defending myself from people poking me was good IMO, gives good reads and good information to work from. Aka, Interacting With Others. At the end of the post you quip, "I just don't

feel

it."

1145: I am honestly so tired.

why did I even try to reply to Quick's posts in earnest? that's more courtesy than he provides anybody else.

[Whiskers]

in post 1145, Quick goes, "OMG that's

MY

reasoning for the thing we agree on!! GET UR OWN!!!" and also, "Why have a stance on things you're skeptical about?" (despite "being skeptical" is a stance. Also despite the fact that I wasn't skeptical).
Also tries to teach me the requirements (albeit incorrecty) for a policy lynch.
Also asks who "unanimous townreads" are, which, of course, were Turtle and Beeboy at the time. Then accuses me of contradicting myself for pushing my reads early on Day 1. Here's a thing, Quick: Just because earlier pushes "may not work out" doesn't mean it's never valuable to push them. He also sets up a false choice between pushing reads early and pushing reads "in a stronger way," which I take to mean "later." Also, misrepresents me here-- I didn't say "it doesn't matter who gets lynched Day 1," I said "To lynch a wagon driven by unanimous townreads is acceptable Day 1."

1272: Doesn't give any new information, jsut says, "Read my ISO!" aka, find my case for me.
btw, what is "LAMIST"?

[Whiskers]

No, I'm saying that when I die and flip town, then and only then can you make a case that "Flubber is scum for going to the counterwagon!"

Whats the difference? For the sake of the argument, you know you are town. Why must you flip town first?

Because hopping on the Other Wagon to flipped town is a perfectly normal and acceptable thing to do Day 2. IMO it's not scummy or even really telling, it's just something that happens a lot because for whatever reason the first two real wagons in a game are often 50% scum.

If I am lynch, then I could see someone going back and saying, "You are scum and knew the other wagon was town so you hopped on it and took it to mislynch a townie!" and while that would be circular reasoning, it would be a better push than "You did the thing players sometimes do!"

If I flipped scum, wouldn't Flubber be lauded as a hero for hopping on the wagon? Like, really, to make the argument that Flubber's vote on me is a bad one, you

need

me to flip town first. IMO you can find other reasons Flubber is scummy but so far none of the votes on him are about anything but "OMG COUNTERWAGON WHISKERS SO BAD!"

[Whiskers]

viewtopic.php?p=9684180#p9684180
Like seriously, check out this post and realize that the only person to give any reason for voting Flubber is you, Nero. Beeboy's vote is a direct sheep, Joey, despite claiming to have started the wagon, gives no explanation, HolySpiritTurtle has him listed as "leftovers," as process of elimination from his Townreads. Gerry "just wants the day to be over."

None of these are good votes. Like-- you are the

only

person to give a reason to your vote and I think it's not a good one. I'd be fucking wary of this wagon if I were you.

[Whiskers]

Why am I required to know that if I am Town?

because you read the thread and possibly even have meta knowledge of joey.

because you observed the fact that he was pushing his own scumreads and that twoinamillion was objectively demonstrably wrong.

[Whiskers]

I'd be fucking wary of this wagon if I were you.

Why?

You are town-null reading everyone on the Flubberwagon. And I'll note that the null read on me is a case of mistaken identity.

I ISO'd you and clarified my read after you pointed out I was confused. You still fit "town-null."

Just because everybody on the wagon is a townread doesn't mean that they have adequate reasons for pushing the lynch. Like I said,

ONLY YOU, NERO CAIN, HAVE GIVEN ANY REASONING FOR A FLUBBER VOTE/WAGON.

Random sheeping or votes without explanation are bad. They're wholly bad.

What if one of my townreads on that wagon is incorrect? What if one of them is scum and just slipped a vote in there to blend in/mislynch/bus for credit? Or even if the wagon really

is

all town, how can I analyze the wagon effectively and solidify my townreads?

The wagon is bad because out of 5 players, only one of them has given any explanation for his vote.

-snip-

I will try to translate this... soon. No disrespect, but is English your first language?

[Whiskers]

There are at least two scum on the whiskers wagon.

I'm p sure I've been saying something to this effect for like ~40 pages, so thank you for catching up with me!

Alisae already said was a shit post?

I don't remember him saying that but then again I've been kinda skimming. We'll see how the rest of the claims go but we'll see

vote:Whiskers

I'm kinda done so I'll just hop on whatever the biggest wagon is.

And yet you--

Alisae already said was a shit post?

I don't remember him saying that but then again I've been kinda skimming. We'll see how the rest of the claims go but we'll see

vote:Whiskers

I'm kinda done so I'll just hop on whatever the biggest wagon is.

-> Biggest wagon is Quick's
-> Votes whiskers

?????????

Oh hey!

next time you can iso and or just read the thread and my answers to you

naw, too much effort.

then fucking replace out.
and like, uninstall

Pretend you have in Ignore: TwoInAMillon (every time I see his posts I just want to projectile vomit into his mouth)

Most people have to pay extra for that.

[Whiskers]

-Voting for Quick because

Was there meant to be a vote in this post?

If not, what can I do to entice you to vote for Quick, or at least run him up to L-1?

[Whiskers]

Like I said, ONLY YOU, NERO CAIN, HAVE GIVEN ANY REASONING FOR A FLUBBER VOTE/WAGON. Random sheeping or votes without explanation are bad. They're wholly bad.

i invented the flubber wagon thingy
I exposed my reasons on a few posts, want me to reiterate them ?

Yes, please do.
I got the feeling that you probably had reasons, you just never listed them. When I ISO'd you, I didn't find them, at least.

Going "I'M NEW HAHA IT WOULD JUST BE

TOOOO

EASY TO MISLYNCH ME! BECAUSE I'M SOOOOO NEW HAHA!" means that you're self aware that you're scummy and are trying to avoid lynch for it.
Instead, don't be scummy? new =/= town???

I want to point out that Nauci is even newer than VC Voyager.

Oh the irony.

I'm glad somebody finally pointed this out.
Although I already mentioned it to

Nero Cain

somebody when answering his questions before, iirc.

My reasons for thinking Whiskers could be scum are:

possible Joey-Whiskers team. Joey went batshit crazy when I, Dunk and supposedly Quick (I haven't looked to confirm.) voted him but calm when Whiskers did. Buddy interaction?

Let me give you a hint why Joey went batshit crazy: Quick.

I am not a fan of the "Nauci is a noob, ignore her today." argument. I think my biggest issue with this is...like she's arguing that we have META on all these other players and therefore we should ignore scummy content from Nauci and focus on experienced players and those that we do have meta on. I think its a bad argument in and of itself but the biggest issue is that she is ok with me pushing Nauci tomorrow. We are not going to have meta on Nauci after a night phase. I'm not seeing a difference between a Nauci push d1 and a Nauci push d2.

Because, whether or not the information we have is directly alignment indicative, we can still ANALYZE her INTERACTIONS with the flipped wagons and with other players. You

can't

rely on meta for her. And IMO you shouldn't rely on meta arguments for anybody, basically ever, but a lot of players are.
Further, the "scummy content" you're talking about all came from like, the first 10-20 pages. If you still think she's scummy, build a case on her. I'll listen.

Actually, we should consider the fact that this is noobscum covering for the partner. If Million flips scum, I'll want to look hard at you next.

this kinda worries me in hindsight. It's one of those classic bus buddy push town.

"bus buddy push town?" Isn't bussing when a scum pushes their buddy?

I'm going to be passed out for the next day on Benadryl because I am covered in massive hives. One of them is roughly the size of a women's shoe.

Yaaaay, Twitch-Con!

[Whiskers]

Hey Nero do you have any new reasons for scum reading me because last I heard it was still because I wanted to policy lunch someone who refused outright to read a 30 page thread and also because newness doesn't make me not a target. Does newness make me a target or am I posting other scummy posts? You don't even have to tell me which posts it just feels like you haven't changed your read of me since page 40.

This, lol.

Nauci why do we always make the same posts?

[Whiskers]

So was that a waste of your fucking time?
Nope. We are now talking, you see I am not just railroading you, and then I possibly have more questions.
They wont be railroading you either.

I don't really understand this. Did I say this would be a waste of my fucking time? :\


However my vote is still on you.

I have some other issues with your ISO, back in the range From about 253 Onwards.

i just ctrl+f "angry" on alisae's iso and he never mentionned you being angry : )

This feels just as faked as Whisker's Anger.

Get rekt, scrub.

I find too many posts like this where you defend yourself.

and fine you are meant to do that.
and yes a bit later you had a vote on, Alisae.

but this does not feel to me like you are trying to work out Alisae
or trying to drive that scum case forward.
Having fended them off you feel Happy with just that.

I know that as that is my feel read kind of thing, there is perhaps nothing you can really say.
You are busy, but if you want to talk me off that point, but i think its unlikely you could go back remember what you were doing as a towny and explain it more.

My push on Alisae wasn't getting traction. Nobody was willing to look at her while I pushed, and my push was largely a hypocritical push on me and otherwise having bad logic. Plus posts like the "get rekt" one, I was 2v1 and appreciated being able to wave a mistake in their face.

Spoiler: Filler

292 explains what a filler post is to Joey. Which a bit ironically looks like filler to me or IIOA. Whatever the right buzzword is.
304 then tries again, with a different explanation

Basically, I see you playing in the thread in that part of the game, dont see your towny intent.

My question

I suppose is can you explain whats going on so I see the towny intent?

Its just this time i dont think there is an explanation that is going to change my view.
It would also get long and bogged down as there are other examples.

Also, remember that the IRL timeframe for this was about a day. That day I had work to catchup on and what amounts to a doctor's appointment. Then I played Fallout and slept. Over the span of ~24 hours, I wasn't really contributing to the thread via reads. I was generating reads via interaction, (in other words, defending myself,) but I didn't have the time to sit down and focus on ISOing people and coming up with a comprehensive reads list or really actually getting my head into the meat of the game.
I did that the next evening.

My best advice is work at finding scum.

...why are you coaching me?

The exact status of this vote is:
I don't like the Flubber wagon.
Not enamored with the UCV one. (vacuous.)

Good, then we're in the same place.

I have not yet integrated the stuff after your reads list into where i am at.
but:
To vote somewhere else I would need somewhere else better to vote.

Consider Quick.

Spoiler: Gerryoat question

Also:

Lastly: Re your comment on my Gerryoat Question

Spoiler: Pretty sure my gerryoat question didnt miss anything

My as yet I believe unanswered, gerryoat question.

In this viewtopic.php?p=9680521#p9680521 You catch the exchange between gerry and Dunk regarding the line, "Is this satire or an actual read?"
What you missed in your post was that

Dunk had actually admitted it was sarcasm [/i] earlier[/i] in the Day

-- like, shortly after he made his initial "this is locktown" post.

If you saw this post:

his earlier posts felt like a grab at towncred
his other posts seem more like go with the flow and just not really do anything
idk don't question it
yes i'm a hypocrite and no i don't care

That when you read it in context is Dunkers explanation of the Beeboy vote.

So if you still think that can you give me a post number.

I will get back to this. There's kind of a tonal shift from the rest of your post and while all I needed to read the rest of your post was a night's sleep, I'm still having a little trouble with this part.

[Whiskers]

we can still ANALYZE her INTERACTIONS with the flipped wagons and with other players.

I don't really think that's going to be anything reliable. I don't.

It's gonna be more reliable than not having that analysis and voting her because of something she said in RVS.

[Whiskers]

So when I state a reason for something, my initial reasons are not good enough because people don't understand the point.

And then you go,

Nope, don't feel like it.

[Whiskers]

UNVOTE:

I don't like leaving people at L-1

Really?

What would I be holding off self hammering for exactly?

Also, catchup/noobs have a tendency to lolhammer early.

ok, quad-post over.

[Whiskers]

I think that my biggest problem with Nauci is that her first post was mainly CABD related and that feels like a safe conversation to hang her hat on.

vote: Nauci

that Nauci took a more "Cabd is town" approach from it which i kinda liked more

like I get the whole "CABD is a killing role he's town." (day sk? lol) but if Nauci is scum wouldn't "CABD is town!" stance be a good way to get town cred?

Maybe but she's also new. I think new scum could be subdued and passive. Town also OMGUS SUPER HARD. Pushing ppl is always a risk. I could see scum her not pushing anyone so she doesn't get OMGUS scum read.

^This was your reason for voting Nauci

--------------------

@nero who do you think the "second lynch" should be? Or rather, who do you think the two lynches, in no particular order should be?

I've already kinda answered this. I am voting Nauci.I said I wouldn't really oppose a lynch on 2iam. I', also considering a policy lynch on the miller claim and Axel feels like he's active lurking. I'd prob be ok with any of those.

Nauci is noob. if you still think she's a problem, attempt lynch tomorrow. Not inherently scummy nor more scummy than many we've seen.

btw @Nauci you don't actually have to do the code for your vote/unvote, you can just bold your vote, most mods pick it up fine.

^This was the start of our discussion/argument about lynching newbies.

--------------------

I like how you guys keep claiming that I was voting her for wanting to pl someone when I never said that. But let's play devil's advocate, why can't scum say and do things in RVS that are lynch worthy? Are you saying that RVS is off limits for scummy activity?

Nah, but your reads should change/develop past page 20 or whatever.
The post where I first say, "don't lynch noobs day 1" was on page 23. We've since discussed whether or not you should lynch noobs, but iiuc you haven't actually given any reason why you think she's scum since then.

[Whiskers]

Those are 4 things about your play if your town i think you can work on.

If he's scum he should probably work on them as well...

[Whiskers]

Beeboy prolly Town, undecided on Joey, but prolly Scum, Whiskers prolly Scum. Gerry is ??? UCV is ???, Nauci I can see either or, Flubber could be Scum, I Lean Town on Nero.

Read on Alisae/Math slot?

I ask because Joey, Whiskers, Quick, and Alisae are all pretty interestingly linked/have interesting interactions. The four of us made up the majority of the thread I think.

[Whiskers]

This was your reason for voting Nauci

yes. that has like nothing to do with a policy lynch.

Nah, but your reads should change/develop past page 20 or whatever.

I

somewhat

agree. Like reads are going to change but sometimes a player will still think a slot is scummy so like they don't

HAVE

to change.

actually, I'm p sure I said you were in the group that attacked/questioned

ME

for "wanting to policy lynch

Quick

" (which never really happened btw). I was mistaken, that was not you.

Nauci said that

You

wanted to policy lynch

Her,

idk where that came from. Looks like she was mistaken too.

But I think the initial read on Nauci was weak and you should revisit. Like I can argue your initial reads but I don't see the point, in defending her nor in addressing reads that haven't been updated since RVS.

[Whiskers]

In the meantime do you think we lose anything by extending the Day phase to it's full length? Both so Shiro/IaI can catchup, and so we can do things like interrogate UC Voyager or whomever?

[Whiskers]

In the meantime do you think we lose anything by extending the Day phase to it's full length? Both so Shiro/IaI can catchup, and so we can do things like interrogate UC Voyager or whomever?

You will prolly get nothing out of UCV, which tells me he's prolly Town.

wouldn't "doesn't respond to questioning" mean he's more likely to be evasive scum?

Also, what's your read on Alisae slot?

[Whiskers]

but this does not feel to me like you are trying to work out Alisae

Work

what

out? Whether she's town or scum?

She spammed, attacked with hypocrisy and faulty logic, then later came around to have the same views that did. She used arguments from player meta almost exclusively. She attacked me for posts "feeling fake" which is not something you can support with evidence.

What about this is town?

[Whiskers]

Can't talk about UCV for raisins. And the fact that you are going after him and not, say, IAI or Chara is telling as well. Chara needs to be replaced, period.

IDK what my read on Mathblade is. IDK why you care either.

Are those raisins you can explain? Considering there's a good chance you're about to be lynched? If not I won't fuckin' bother but there's a decent chance Voyager is a future lynch/vig, so if there's something that

only you know

((as a VT??)) then I think you should report it.

I care what your read on the Alisae slot is because of the reasons I listed the first time I asked.
I care because you gave reads on other nicely-tangled slots but not on her.

[Whiskers]

She attacked me for posts "feeling fake" which is not something you can support with evidence.

You can't even defend against this, this is like attacking somebody for being a cat person. It's

so

stupid.

[Whiskers]

Like I said, ONLY YOU, NERO CAIN, HAVE GIVEN ANY REASONING FOR A FLUBBER VOTE/WAGON. Random sheeping or votes without explanation are bad. They're wholly bad.

i invented the flubber wagon thingy
I exposed my reasons on a few posts, want me to reiterate them ?

Yes, please do.

[Whiskers]

I guess its WIFOMish but he's lurking horribly and I kind of think his scum team might be yelling at him in the PT and he' be posting here more. IDK.

Isn't mafia QT usually only allowed during Night?
Is this a slip?

nah mang i'm just throwin shaaaade

(see: later in this post)
But seriously scum nightchat is standard unless they've changed that recently

OK, so I'm reading the thread and I'm seeing a lot of people going, "I can't believe you don't like someone's push

on the person you're voting!!"

Like, why don't you realize that just because you're voting a scumread, doesn't mean you can find someone else's vote on that same scumread to be a shitty vote? That's really important!

You're saying there's only three scum?

Is this a slip?

3 scum in an 18 player game. I don't foresee town [insert name here] ever believing this.

Which means ur question is all about casting shade.

I'm not familiar with setup. Nero's post earlier that page about how "17 player games have 4 scum and 21 player games have 5 scum" is not something I'm aware of-- I have no reason to question him, but I don't know firsthand.
IIRC, newbie games have 2 scum, maybe 3. I s'pose I could go look it up since newbie setup is standard, but it's not relevant.
*shrug* why wouldn't an 18 player game have 3 scum?

[Whiskers]

I pressed ctrl+F "Flubber" in Joey's ISO, here are all the posts before his first vote. Remember, the first vote was the naked one. After that he moved and re-placed his vote on a no-longer naked wagon. [

spoiler=]

Well its not like he hard claimed. He claimed a non-normal role wich seems like it could be scum paving the way for a fake claim. Like claiming non-normal seems like its opens up his options.

Thinking back to this, it potentially opens up powerful town roles to a cc dilemma. Liking it for scum now.

Cabd or nero for scum? i dont understand extremely well what you tried to say there

I think i asked like 3-4 questions already and i was openly ignored by everyone so fuck yall

I'm p sure you haven't been openly ignored, and at least one of your questions was answered-- and in picture form, no less.

Also hi people

@UC the interactions nero/alisea you said makes you scumread nero, is it only because he called alisa mefia or is there other stuff? you quoted that somewhere

i currently beleive Nero could possibly be scum with Alisea because of their early interactions,
ALSO
I think Nero targeted me a little early ....Because I know my role, it would make since for Nero [as scum] to try to go after me. And due to my lack of experience, i am a lot easier to miss lynch than other players!

I call complete BULL Crap on alisea's Macho Miller claim. I think it is one hell of a way to look innocent after cop says he found you guilty!
But
I think her page on reads were just a joke N such!

I will never try this again. that took way to long.

Here's your second question:

Like if cabd made that as a scum move, that wasnt efficient at all

If he was scum that claimed non-normal role what do you think he'd give as his reasoning?

Here's your third question:

Well its not like he hard claimed. He claimed a non-normal role wich seems like it could be scum paving the way for a fake claim. Like claiming non-normal seems like its opens up his options.

Thinking back to this, it potentially opens up powerful town roles to a cc dilemma. Liking it for scum now.

Cabd or nero for scum? i dont understand extremely well what you tried to say there

I scum read cabd's claim, but will give him the benefit of the doubt that he can confirm himself d1.

I think UC is town. Inefficient posting style, but there is scum hunting in it.

Whiskers voting axel for obfuscation but only scolding UC is questionable.

I noted that I found raha's vote suspicious but I don't remember why.

I would like to see better pushes from beeboy. My experience playing scum with them is that they have rock solid defenses of themselves, but there's not a lot of pushing from within it.

Sooo, actually, ALL of your questions have been answered. Try reading thread? FOS Joey.

flubber didnt answer my question and if you count UC's image as answering your downright stupid, i couldnt even read it

joey

vote whiskers

i liked his earlier lines

why do you personnally scumread him?

You're saying there's only three scum?

How did you even infer that

I don't recall you town reading Rhah before

Rhah is a claimed mason.....

-1

You know who you should be voting if Rhah's claim isn't true right?

I never said it's not true, it's scummy to continuosly bring it up. I'm not saying it is true either.

Explain me, how is it scummy to continuously bring it up or to take it account in his reads

VOTE: flubber i think this might be a mefias bois

[/spoiler]

Then you do some facetious votes at people like Shiro, then put it back on Flubber. Then, this happened,

Flubber <- i remember his town play to be stronger, also i dont like his non reaction to my vote and his content overall, looks like a mefia to me

^ISO 167

@Nero watch me

*schoolbus image*

VOTE: flubber

^ISO 190.

Then you have a long exchange with Quick, where you keep banging your head against a solid Quick wall

(eh? eeeeeh?)

and vote him and then eventually vote Flubber again.

I'm not seeing it, dude.

[Whiskers]

FUCK

[Whiskers]

Mafia team have daychat.

well shit

look who didn't read the thread

it me

[Whiskers]

I want Whiskers and all the players with Cat avatars dead but I don't think it'll happen.

i started this game with an mlp avatar, (hi cloudkicker! looks like Rainbow Dash is still around, and does Beck still play under his Derpy Hooves alt?) do you want me to switch it back to that?

[Whiskers]

Yes those cards are close to my chest.
If either CABD or HST want to take peek, and think doing so has town utility, we can dance.

I have realised these "rules" may make other people anxious.
(

but think about this pls

. If I ought be quizzed what are the odds they are both scum?)

So if we get up to the point, where someone is ready(declares intent) to hammer Flub or Quick.

And

anyone

wants to at that time, come back and quiz my reasoning.
I will explain in first a bit of succinct detail why, and later in more.
(my reasoning will clearly be my own.)

Meanwhile other people wanting to vote one way or the other can go find their own damn reasons.
I kinda like the current game state in that people voting either wagon have a not easy decision.

---

Also

@ CABD and GIF

. There is some math called an iterated prisoners dilemma
If you want to talk,

its actual pretty safe

, as I would do it in rounds (like that math does) until you understood where I was coming from if you don't already.

Hey Axle, what cards are you keeping close to your chest?
Why did you mention Prisoner's Dilemma (or Iterated Prisoner's Dilemma)? I don't see why it's relevant to anything here.

[Whiskers]

Vote Whiskers

This should have happened yesterday.

Then why did people decide to hop off and policy lynch Quick?
Because remember, most of the people on Quick didn't even read him as scum. Hell, a lot of them (Axle, for example,) said I was the scummiest, but jumped off me to vote Quick at the end.

[Whiskers]

@nero its really disgusting that you went against two clears on someone you townread, voting with whiskers you fos

Make that Axel and Nero.

[Whiskers]

I was right on quick and I'm staying where I was. No reason to change good reads.
VOTE: UCVoyager

Joey is also supper scummy.

I disagree with your read of joey but agree with your read of flubber and whiskers.

I think this is a good slot to look into, it got a lot of "scumreads" yesterDay but not a lot of actual attention/followup IMO (which is fair, because town was preoccupied with other things.)

Aside from that, I like the idea that the scum team is literally everybody who is voting me RN, but I think that's kind of way too easy. Sure, WIFOM, but scum doesn't vote one, two, three, all together like that. (I guess nobody was actually saying that, joey's reads were different. So.)

@Joey

: I could see opportunistic IaI, and I think Flubber could be scum but IMO the push was bad. You still didn't give me reasons for your push on him, despite claiming to have made the wagon.
(As for axel, I can't read him.)

[Whiskers]

Spoiler: @Nauci

I thought counter wagon meant wagon scum create to get heat off of their buddy, not just the-only-other-plausible-vote.

tbh I'm not sure we can count Quick as a counterwagon for the purposes of wagon analysis, considering most of the people on his agreed he wasn't scum, but a mere PL.

Spoiler: TwoInAMillion's Good Post

Nothing changed my mind. I thought Quick was town before and he was town. There are scum on his wagon. There are scum on Whiskers and Flubbers wagons. Town is making it easy for scum to hide by pushing bad wagons.

Why do you think both are town? You dont think the flub’s lynch resistance from yday was odd?

Be more specific. I think both are town because of the lack of reasoning on both lynches, the scumminess of people on their wagons, that they came up day 1 when there are many mislynches and the lack of consensus on lynches as if scum is trying to split up the town.

This is a good post from TIAM in a game where there are too few good TIAM posts.

I had a hunch this would happen.
Lead on, confirmed townie.

Spoiler: Re:Appeal to Authority

Games arent decided by hard infos most of the time, you need more than one scumread

This is far from true. Most games are decided on hard information.

Hm you played 4 games, i played thousands on em and at least 25 here so ill dismiss your opinion

Appeal to authority. Why not ask other people instead of just deciding yourself? This is something that scum would say to dismiss good night actions.

Ask me: I agree that most satisfying, "real" games aren't won by Following The Cop.

My main reason was heavy ass poe into rxn check into slight meta into overall scummy ass play when pressirized. Town dynamic imo says it was t va s yday too

I'm just gonna say, if you're PoE'ing people with total 1 flip, you probably haven't caught scum.

[Whiskers]

Care to explain to me why you think a player should be scumread when there's no reasons and I have explained why I townread Whiskers and no one has explained why it is bad?

It's almost like other people have opinions that are different than yours. *GASP*

I think your reason for town reading Whiskers is shit anyways. I think the exact opposite of you...what the fuck is the town motivation of pointing out a crumb?

Elucidating to the Town. At large.
And tbh, nullifying breadcrumbs by doing so. Honestly I have seen players in Day 4 point to their crumb and go "Hey I was [Doc/JK/whatever] and everybody decides they're instantly clear and lynches with them, as if breadcrumbing is some solid proof that they're actually the role they say they are, because they crumbed early instead of holding out and fullclaiming all on Day 4. It's pretty bullshit.

Meanwhile, nobody should be breadcrumbing unless they're an investigative role. Doc shouldn't be breadcrumbing. Vig outright claimed, but if he hadn't, he probably shouldn't have breadcrumbed either.

breadcrumbing as town is bad unless you're a Cop/investigative role who knows WITH CERTAINTY that there is Doc/protective role.

But I just did it on impulse, because I'm trying to read between the lines and I'm kind of on autopilot wrt Mafia Game Theory. I wasn't actively thinking about any of this.

Correct. However as cleared Town their reads are guaranteed to come from a good place. So while I hate town blocks I find that taking what masons say important.

I'll take reads from bad players with a large helping of salt instead of buddying up to them.[/quote]
Please for god's sake townread me, your posts are good and it's putting me on edge that I'm your SR.

[Whiskers]

I could maybe buy a scumWhiskers defending Nauci for town cred I guess but I still dislike her contents. Her Appendix and forward sucks too.

[Whiskers]

Start D1 townreading Whiskers, end D1 scumreading her I think. Didn't like the stuff with the softs. Reason I don't like the wagon is because if it's green it's so obvious in hindsight and such a waste. Is Whiskers tone entirely constructed or not, I mean.

Can I just be clear I'm not smart or good enough to fake tone.
Like, I know where my strengths and weaknesses are: I'm good stirring and prodding and digging, but I'm not good at sorting what I've dug up, or analyzing what it means or what it's good for. I don't ever read as particularly townie, Town or Scum. My most successful games early on were my scum games, so I tried to match my town game to my scum play.

Town or Scum, my actual intent is to scumhunt to the best of my ability, but to be honest when I've come short on something. Most of my game one way or another is personality. I have played games where I have forgotten who my scumpartners are partway through, and acted as part of the uninformed majority. I always play like scummy town.

I'm not really smart enough to fake tone.

That's why the shit like Alisae's early fos on me is so frustrating.

Take it for what it's worth, but I think a lot of what you're reading isn't alignment indicative, it's just me. If you think that's a liability

(Hint: it is)

then you should probably lynch me and start sorting actual scumreads further on in the game.

[Whiskers]

The facepalm?
I liked nero's pun.