Echo Bay Grits SEO [game over]

[TheBrie]

Heya.

I'm a rubbish player sometimes, but I won't shoot without reason.

VOTE: Almost50

The Worst is my friend. Don't mess with us Aussies.

[TheBrie]

I wonder if the random shots are more towny than scummy

I would have thought random shots were more scummy. At least they benefit scum unless they hit town by chance, and scum isn't going to shoot scum, but may very well shoot a townie under the pretence of randomness.

Or they may just not be thinking this through.

[TheBrie]

Happy to join PRICKS. Conditional on that being pricks as is pinpricks.

I haven't figured out how to scum hunt in this set up, but I like that post of StefanB's.

[TheBrie]

kill mon, he's scum

but everyone is town

I must admit the game rules are a little unclear on that, but they do mention factions, and the description in signups certainly indicated that we weren't all town.

It's a very believable thing to miss however, so I'll assume for now that you aren't scum.

[TheBrie]

I am here.

Probably time to share what I was thinking. Scum have a LOT more to lose by getting shot than town do. So I think the PRICKS are likely to contain at least a few scum, probably more especially if there are multiple teams.

Gonna go back and look at the circumstances surrounding people joining. I may be willing to take a shot in there even knowing that it will get me shot-- although I'll definitely discuss and not just yoloherotime it. (Because that has worked out so well thus far.)

That does sound reasonable. Being a member of PRICKS does not make anyone town.

I personally think that if someone suspects a pricks member of being scum, and makes a case several pricks members agree with, we should not auto shoot back even if they turn out to be wrong. At least I won't be the one shooting back if the shoot seems justified rather than random.

[TheBrie]

Snarkys reaction was strange, I didn't exspect his survival here.

@StefanB Do you know Snarky? I played with him at least once a while back and he seemed a little odd then. Might have been scum then, actually.

Snarky's posts in this game certainly don't seemed geared towards useful, and his comment on Creature seemed odd. Unless this particular type of game holds extra interest for Creature (Multifactions, dayvigs, whatever), he's town. He wasn't just posting. He was engaged.

[TheBrie]

Either Srceenplay realized the shot at him wasn't going through (due to the previous shot not being processed), he was in denial over his death, or he basically claimed x-shot bulletproof.
He said he would shoot someone tomorrow, after the shot at him had been posted. And I'm pretty sure the fact that being shot at kills, is not something he could have missed.

Given that the number of BPs and SMs is stated to be anywhere up to the total number of players (Though clearly lower), I got the impression it was probably fairly random, and shouldn't have anything to do with alignment. He need Town BPs too.

[TheBrie]

I made a spreadsheet to record my reads and impression in, and decided to keep track of who killed who as well.

If anyone want me to bring up information, I can.

For now, five shooters have been shot themselves, and determined to be citizens. Interestingly none of them shot for particularly good reasons, showing random shots can certainly come from town. And, as you know if you've been paying attention, the only BP to die was not town. However, I personally have a town lean on the worst who was shot and didn't die.

I'd kind of like to shoot someone who's already been shot to see if there are any town BPs, but I also would rather not shoot town, and if we act on the idea that only scum are BPs, it will be shown false soon enough.

Srceenplay: Are you trying to make us shoot Almost?

Saying shoot me is I'm wrong can be a gambit to get town reads and not be shot, but I doubt this is a place something like that would work very well. And saying that kind of means it's working against me.

[TheBrie]

*yawn*

I hear scum whining about me not relenting my read because of some self meta defense, something about IIOA being invalid because everyone has to scum hunt (like this is my first multiball ever) and claiming I'm scum for "randomly shooting " someone who could be solid town because I was pinged by his posts even though SO FAR everyone who was gun happy flipped town.

Meanwhile he completely ignores how I am handling bp and how flipped scum handled his.

BTW I have more than one shot which is why I said I still needed to be strong armed

True, randomly shooting is not a scum tell.

Difference between you and Snarky: I think it's just the difference between you and Snarky. His handling of the BP was idiotic. Smart scum would not do that. I say nai.


Yet the only scum reasoning for saying you need to be strong armed, is to get someone to use or reveal their strongman status. (or be afraid to shoot)
And the only town reasoning is doing it to stop people wasting their shots. So the scum reasons seem slightly stronger, but not by too much.

[TheBrie]

[quote="In post 724, Taly"

the worst

- Engages... ****ing do not shoot this to see if Town have BP....

Brie

.
[/quote]
I won't. I'm not stupid enough to shoot likely town to prove a point. Rather shoot myself than the worst.

To gain anymore information about BPs in general, I'd go shoot srceenplay or Mom. But neither of them are going to fall afoul of PRANKERS due to their shots already being gone.

[TheBrie]

Hebichan is an idiot.

Now, out of 18 kills, only one has been scum. Meaning there's very few scum, or they're doing far too well.

I love Theta Alpine's kill/not kill list idea. Mine will be less complete, because there's not a lot I feel firmly about, and I don't want to kill seven people. Mine is really just a reads list. Order is irrelevant.

Willing to kill:
Srceenplay [he's scum, trolling or an idiot, and I don't think he's an idiot]
Arcwing [useless]
Random Midget [only three posts, no useful content]
BBmolla [don't like how's he has played, but his shooting of hyung wasn't unreasonable]

Wouldn't shoot (at least not now):
Ausuka [shot snarky, seems decent]
Vaxkiller [asked for the shot on snarky]
Ganski [does good analysis]
Sando [I just like Sando. I think the pricks concept is more likely to come out of town than scum]
StefanB [has good reads]
Taly [analizes, good reads, tries to make goodish things happen, need I even say this?]
the_worst [engages, is friendly, and I'm slightly biased since we won everyone-is-a-serial-killer together]


Austurity [dunno, could go either way]
Davsto [really pings me, but I'm not sure if it's his manner or his play. Or just his avatar. His argument on Mom seems half reasonable and half rubbish.]
GammaGooey [not very engaged, but not strongly scummy]
Lovebird [could go either way]
Mom [I just don't get the scum read here. I think there's not as much here as made out]
Varsoon [hardly done anything]
wingedcatgirl [I likes, but can't call town yet]
Chickadee [almost put her in the shoot section, but I'm not sure]
iconeum

[TheBrie]

Varsoon [hardly done anything]

I mean.... hes dead.

Oops. I won't shoot him in that case.

You are forgetting random midget (who is scum) and not_mafia (who could be either)

but HAS to die

because they will shoot bad tomorrow.

I have Random Midget in my shoot list.

Are you figuring that since not_mafia shot bad today, he'll do the same tomorrow?

You are forgetting random midget (who is scum) and not_mafia (who could be either)

but HAS to die

because they will shoot bad tomorrow.

We've now got seven dead shooters, all town, five shots random, one reasonable, one stupid.

[TheBrie]

I just checked and found that of the 9 players with a shot left, 5 are PRICKS people and 4 aren't. Those 4 being:
Austerity
Random Midget
Arcwing
Nero Cain

So what happens if we get to a stage where only PRICKS people have shots? Do we hold out for a week until the game ends, or do we shoot people we think are scummy?

[TheBrie]

BTW, it may be worth suggesting that we create a list of people for D2 that must forfeit their shot in their first D2 post or get shot themeselves. I dunno if it's a great idea to publicise the list, but getting people to give up their shot somehow seems like a better start than blindly shooting into them.

Seems sort of reasonable. But how could the list work if it's not publicized?


I'm not 100% sure, but I think BBMolla had been shot, and would also be a BP. I'll make the shot was valid and get back.

Pedit: I'm surprised by how easy it's been to get my head around this. I usually struggle with anything bigger than a micro.

[TheBrie]

Shoot: BBmolla

I realized something.

And this was an invalid shot. In between BBmolla shooting Hyung and it being resolved.

[TheBrie]

Varsoon was the next one to be shot. I'd be suspious about this, except his shooter is now dead town, and thus couldn't have been shooting him to stop him shooting BBmolla successfully.

[TheBrie]

Seems sort of reasonable. But how could the list work if it's not publicized?

No more that potentially having to publicise it makes it not so useful at all? I think it's a good idea but I haven't fully thought through the implications yet and putting it out there for others to think about too.

I do not understand what you said there. So I'll just repeat my question with more details.
How does anyone know they'll be shot unless they forfeit their shot, if the list isn't public?
Also, unless this is just one person's list, it has to be settled in public.

[TheBrie]

Urgh, I'm NOT saying that the list should be private. I'm saying that the list should be public and settled on.

I'm ALSO saying that the list being public may create some unintended consequences that I haven't thought of, and that should mean the entire list idea should be scrapped.

I'm not advocating a private list, I'm saying a public list might not work, in which case NO LIST is best.

That makes complete sense. Forcing someone to forfeit or be shot might be a good tactic in some situations still. Not sure what they are though.

(Wrote this last night, forgot to finish, had a power outage.)

[TheBrie]

StefanB's shot list looks about the same as mine.

If I were scum with not_mafia, I would be careful to put him somewhere on my list, if only as a null. I know leaving people draws attention to them.

Does anyone want me to shoot Srceenplay? Or maybe Chickadee?

[TheBrie]

On father thought, it might be better to shoot a scummy person who still has a shot left.

Say Random Midget.
Possibly Wingedcatgirl, though I'm fairly null on her, so I'd rather go somewhere more suspicious.

Since my main reason for Arcwing being on my shoot list, was his complete lack of usefulness, I'm for letting his replacement show up.

Stefan's list about not_mafia associations seems sound enough. Even the point about me was basically factual. I was however not intending to defend him, but just trying to understand why he should die.
Most of who he says cannot be scum with not_mafia are town read by me (and many others). Momrangal is the only exception, but still a valid point. If she's scum, she's probably GRITS not the other one.

[TheBrie]

What does f'pd mean?

Even if a second BP flips scum, we shouldn't substitute that for actual reads.

[TheBrie]

Ahh.
Well we can only shoot one each, so there's no problem?

On an unrelated note, has anyone read anything about a night kill existing?
Someone mentioned it a while back, but I haven't seen any evidence?

[TheBrie]

Ahh.
Well we can only shoot one each, so there's no problem?

On an unrelated note, has anyone read anything about a night kill existing?
Someone mentioned it a while back, but I haven't read it anywhere.

[TheBrie]

@StefanB Thanks. I knew there was some mention of a night phase, but wasn't sure beyond that.

BPs are Momrangal, Random Midget, Srceenplay, and the Worst. Given that I read the Worst as town, I put chance of hitting scum when shooting BPs at no more than 75%.

Has anyone here played with the Worst? I played Everyone is a Serial Killer with him, but that's probably the worst place to gain an impression of someone's play. Not that I know anyone else better or have done research on anyone, but I feel slightly biased.

[TheBrie]

Disliked the quickness and naked vote of

random's

shot.... but that just seems normal in this game.

In some ways that shot was a long time coming. Random had an invalid shot on Mom in his last post ages ago. Also with no wrapping but a quote of his discussion with Davsto where he said he was happy to make the shot. Just, "Im in," followed by the shot.
There's no way that they're scum together, but if Mom is scum, I'm not ruling out Random being in the other faction. He's said so little, so that's not a very concrete read, but by poe he's likely scum.

[TheBrie]

Referencing a non-mafia game (it was mish mash) to compare an actual game of mafia is the worst.
I also townread the worst.

And that's why I know it's rubbish to base anything off that.

[TheBrie]

So now that I'm one of the few people with a shot left, and the only one actually around, I suppose I should shoot someone.

I won't shoot outside of Random, BBmolla, Chickadee, Wingedcatgirl and Davsto.

Which is too many for me to choose between.

I wouldn't consider Wingedcatgirl, but there's a chance she's scum, and she's still got a shot.

I think Davsto pushed that case on Mom far too hard for what he had.

And things have already be said about the others.

[TheBrie]

@Wingedcatgirl I can't remember exactly who else in in Prankers. I'm the only other one with a shot left, but I think there's about three others alive.
If you don't shoot Random, I may end up doing it.

[TheBrie]

I was afraid people would read my hesitance to shoot as scummy. But tthere's about three reasons for it. One, PRICKS people have only been shooting when a PRICKS person is shot (Chickadee excepted. Two, the whole idea of making list abotu who we do and do not want to shoot wasn't mine. (for moment I thought that was Sando, who's dead town now, but I think it was actually StefanB. Three, if there's as many scum as theorized, I had better hit scum, and there are people in the game whose reads I trust better than my own. I hate making decisions alone, unless I'm really sure.

And now you've gone and made me doubt N_M's scummyness. Thanks Vax and Gamma. Now I've got to shoot someone else. You might have a point on Taly, but I don't want to risk it. Going to shoot chickadee I think. I'll just have another look at Davsto before I do.

[TheBrie]

Is that talking to me? I'm not signing off. I'm still playing. I just see phrases like this

I think Davsto pushed that case on Mom far too hard for what he had.

And it's very clear that someone hasn't actually been reading my posts. Regardless of whether or not you agree with my reasons, I had a lot of them. I want to make that clear and I want people to actually make an informed decision before shooting me.

I read your posts. I just didn't like your arguments. But on looking over them again, I do see a few points that seem more valid than I initally thought. So I'm not killing you today.

And re-reading Chickadee's ISO makes me not want to shoot her either. Why couldn't have Nero Cain done what he was expected instead of shooting Sando? It would have removed this problem.

[TheBrie]

If Chickadee is scum,it's not with Snarky. Not with how she called out his rubbish about not being a BP.

Honestly yeah I just do not think light is scum at all here. If they are its likely not with NM.

Who is light?

[TheBrie]

You've gotta sympathise with how frustrated I am right now. I had a myriad of valid reasons to scumread Mom. And they flipped town, big deal, sometimes reads are wrong and town players act scummy. It's just annoying to now see people acting like I had no reasons as if they think my only reason to scumread Mom was her quickshoot when reading my posts makes it clear it's more than that. It really puts down and degrades a scumread I put an awful lot of effort into. I don't mind it being wrong, I mind that everyone is acting like it was nothing.

It wasn't the quick shoot I thought was a bad reason. It was the whole IIoA being irreverent in multi-ball that I thought was rubbish. Not complete rubbish, as it's easier for scum to avoid it, but that doesn't been it's an totally invalid tool. And even as a bad tool, that doesn't mean the person using it is scum, and you were tunnelling he a bit, in my opinion.

[TheBrie]

Oh, Ganski.

What do you think of Davsto, and what do you think of Gamma's reads, and Vax's opion of Random? Because I town read Vax, and am unsure about Gamma. Gamma's reads are rather different to mine, which means either he's scum, or one of us is wrong.

[TheBrie]

TheBrie: Snarky was a traitor, so his scumteam didn't know he was scum.

Hello Toronga.
I am shocked about Screens flip exspecially.
I wouldn't call Randoms shoot suden, it was promised so long ago, that some people had probably allready forgotten it.

Stupid me. Ignore half of what I say at this time of night. There goes half my reason for not shooting Chickadee. And by POE, she's likely scum.

Agreed about Random's shot being promised.

Shoot: Chickadee

[TheBrie]

I'm currently feeling like the mod is messing with us, but putting in a heap fewer scum than expected. At least I hope that's the case.

I've done a search on Chickadee, and these pots have some potentially useful associations.

Lovebird has been casting strong shade on Chick.

Oooo we're not all town! Confirmed now.

What did I just come back to?????

I guess feels like "oh no, doctor is dead" thing.

Maybe chickadee could be scum. Even without associative.

Gamma kind of defended Lovebird, but he also defended Chick here a bit. The rest of the post this is an exerpt), sounds townish, but Lovebird and Gamma being scum together is not impossible.

i think Lovebird's push on chickadee looks like genuine scumhunting from Love - a lot of posts from Chickadee look posturey in isolation, especially her comments to Nero around the Almost shot and the snarky/vax shenanigans. I think the context (especially the parts with the Almost shot being basically in real-time with Nero) makes Chickadee look a lot better than her iso alone though.

In post #495 StefanB said Chick could possible be scum with not_mafia, but it wasn't a strong statement and feels more likely to come from town.
Light Ganski's post #918 has Chick as a scum read, but also for valid reasons.
Theta Alpine had Chick on the shoot list for breaking out of PRICKS.
Taly questioned Chick about certain things. Origianlly had read her as town, but was shifting towards scum.

None of those four are anything to make a case about without the biggest stretch of imagination.

[TheBrie]

If you guys are on to post, can't you post something worth reading?

Ramcius Citizen Eddie Cane
Aristophane Citizen CheekyTeeky
CheekyTeeky Citizen Srceenplay
Gorkington Citizen Ankamius
Ankamius Citizen Lovebird From solid read
Nexus Citizen Hyung Random
hyung Citizen BBMolla reasonable
Varsoon Citizen McMenno Why
McMenno Citizen shot Varsoon StefanB
Harambey180 Citizen GammaGooey Random
Eddie Cane Citizen Momrangal off
Kokichi Oma Citizen Tried shooting the worst Sando PRICKS venge
Snarky Grits traitor 1shotBP Ausuka
ooba Citizen Almost50 says he's either scum, or bad town.
Almost50 Citizen said he would understand being shot if ooba was town Chickadee for shooting ooba
Bins Citizen Not_Mafia because bins said nm was scum for not shooting yet.
Creature Citizen Hebichan she's an idiot
Hebichan Citizen Theta Alpine everyone wanted to
Not Mafia Echo Bay Munitions Co. goon Echo Bay Munitions Co. goon Ganski
Sando Citizen Nero Cain idiot
Nero Cain Citizen The worst Because Nero shot Sando
Srceenplay Citizen 1 shot BP Iconeum
Momrangal Citizen 1 shot BP random Midget Weird case made by Davsto, and pushed hard.
Chickadee Citizen Brie

[TheBrie]

Oops, I din't want to post that yet. I meant to do more formatting and hide in a spoiler as to save space.
From left to right on each line:
Person shot, alignment, extra comments, shooter, reason for shot.

[TheBrie]

nottttt sure but light_ganski is almost certainly town

And if he's scum, perhaps you are with him?

I'm half joking. It's one of the wild ideas that crosses my mind at half to midnight. But seriously, though I do townread you and Ganski, there's got to be scum somewhere in my townreads.

[TheBrie]

Were are the scum? I cannot find them.

In seriousness, does anyone want to ask we any questions before i go V/LA for a couple of days? I'll be busy, but I'll find time for specific questions.

[TheBrie]

I'm back. I had much fun.

I'll post properly when I'm less tired.

But for now, I'm getting an odd feeling about the worst. His defense of Theta suggesting we shoot for information rather than scum, didn't make complete sense to me. Yes partner associations could be useful, but why can't we do proper scum hunting? Is this game really that far from the ordinary.

And how come Davsto is scum hunting properly? He's not caught anyone.


Gorkinton was shot by Ankamius, who was shot by Lovebird soon after. And according to my notes, Lovebird was going off what sounded like a reasonable read. Ankamius was also town.

[TheBrie]

[quote="In post 1177, StefanB"]
It was the first scumkill and you were at that moment the most protownplayer (even if you are scum).
/quote]

I would say Vax owns at least as much credit for that scumkill. He made the first shot, and told Ausuka to make the second. Do you really think Ausuka was more protown in play than Vax?

[TheBrie]

I'm still here, and see Vax being funny about killing me.
Would love to see him explain what information killing me would give. It's an easy statement to make.

I think the shot is best spent on the low-post still alive players, so we can actually play a game on D2 with a manageable number of players. Yes, this is actually pro-town.

I'd like to know this too. I haven't seen the associatives. I suppose the shot late in the game at a player many thought should die, could be construed as scummy, but it's not strong.

[TheBrie]

Thank you for making my information into a nice table, TW. That's what I wanted but I could find a quick an easy way to do it.

On Taly: Is saying he hope he's night killed a town statement in anyway?

[TheBrie]

BTW anyone who wonders why I am scumreading the Pricks in general and Taly in specific should read Thing Mafia.

Take note of how many scum were either instrumental in leading the coordinated Town night action plan or were “good Protown players” on dutifully following said plan and harshly punishing those Town players who didn’t comply with “Town” dictated plans.

Hint - it is 100% of the scum who lived past Day 2.

You may have a point, but Sando, the founder and leader of PRICKS has flipped town. Several others (Chickadee at least) who were part of Pricks have also flipped town.

Anyway, though we need some organization rather than random shooting for Day 2, PRICKS isn't a good solution. It did not help find scum, and just led to people holding their shot forever.

[TheBrie]

It had been suggested that the different names were a ruse to make us think there were separate scum teams, while actually being the same. Vax not knowing is surprising, but not entirely implausible.

As for me and PRICKS, I was part of it, and I would have whatever my alignment. And I think I'm more likely to go with the flow as town. Or at least I'm more likely to invent a weird push I can't justify as scum.
Of course you can say that the infomation is useless because it comes from me, and I'll admit I probably don't have the clearest view of myself.

[TheBrie]

You could also say that if I were scum, I would have it easier due to multiball. Maybe so.