Heroes Wanted! (Game Over)
-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
Hey everyone.
So, first things first:
FA, who did you vote for as leader and why?
After she answers, I think everyone else should also answer that pair of questions.GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
@Mod: will you answer questions in thread if asked here during the first day?
If so:
Were scum able to chat during the pregame?
Rule 7 in leaders say the leader can't die unless a no lynch is achieved. Does this mean they will die in the case of a no lynch, or simply that they will not be protected that night? Is the leaders protection absolute? As in, strongman/empowered type killa will still fail on them?
Can multiple people acquire the same power at the same time? That is, could FA and myself, if we were both on the team, gain impenetrable skin tonight?
Are all the powers listed here today unlimited use?
I may have more, but that's all for the moment.GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
Ope, more questions.
Will the superhero team selected be publicly known? If so, when will the membership be known? Are superhero teams able to privately communicate with one another during the night/at any other time?GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
Shush, I want FA's answer before everyone else starts saying things about who they voted for! <3In post 13, the worst wrote:should we claim who we voted for?
also thoughts on the fact D1 elected person probably has reasonably high scum equity?
like I talked myself out of it because surely that'd be too obvious but unless she got 2 votes and everyone else got 1 it's a question
ftr I voted Nancy Drew 39
And when they do say things...everyone should say WHY. Cuz that's important!GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
Also, if anyone who WASN'T FA(or a couple of other people who I won't be naming) were elected, I would agree with you about the high scum probability. FA is in a unique situation, having recently returned to the game and being generally well known, so I'm not particularly surprised she was chosen.
I actually complained to the mod when I submitted my vote about that, noting that I thought it would be better if there were an open thread to talk about this, UNLESS scum were also unable to talk to one another while making this decision(thus, the question I asked), OR their membership was entirely devoid of "popular" players.GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
I think that the marginal scum equity mentioned by TW makes the optimal claiming order begin with the selected leader for any given day.In post 16, Sando wrote:
I think everyone should just claim who they voted for. I think this is a fairly predictable outcome though and we probably won't get much from it, but hey more info is good info.In post 8, Cerberus v666 wrote:FA, who did you vote for as leader and why?
After she answers, I think everyone else should also answer that pair of questions.GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
Eh, the phrasing is arguably ambiguous, so it's reasonable to ask...but unless the mod is deliberately misleading us, I think it's safe to conclude that the scum team have day chat.GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
@mod: Shush, don't go quoting your own ambiguous posts at me. We have no reason to assume that abilities won't be available AGAIN in a future phase, so clarification was necessary.
I see absolutely no benefit to the rush of having people express their choices ASAP.
Confirmation of daychat(which we should have assumed anyways means that assuming town doesn't lie, by claiming in advance of the person "most likely" to have been selected by scum(though only marginally more likely than others, as I said before) we give scum the ability to coordinate their claims and say whatever "fits" the situation as revealed by town. If they find out that without their set of votes, their selected teammate would not have won, they can deliberately distance by only having the requisite number of them claim to have voted for that individual. This is, of course, assuming FA is actually scum, or at the least a choice scum decided to make for whatever reasons.
Also, people claiming who they voted for without saying why are being bad and should feel bad for giving out the information most useful to scum, without sharing the information that's useful to town.GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
Cool. Thank you FA.
I voted for FA, because she was the person in the list who I felt had the greatest combined chance of being selected by the rest of the playerlist, AND putting me on her team. ^^
If anyone would like to know the list of possible people I was considering voting for, I'll share. Otherwise, you get nothing from me!
@Drixx: Did you really consider it probable that I would be the likely selection of the players in this game...at least, without the deliberate support of scum?
@zmuffin: You really did make points. :-/
@sakura: Do you have any contributions to make other than shitting on sando/chickadee/whoever else talked about scum coordination's position? I see your gradual descent towards painting everyone who is speculating about scum actions as engaging in useless scummy fluffy mechanical talk instead of scumhunting, yet I don't actually see you doing anything any better yourself.GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
In post 133, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
In every game I’m in, I always go with Occams Razor. The simplest explanation always makes the most sense. I don’t think it makes a lot of sense for scum to lie about their votes. Why make things harder for themselves? I think we can WIFOM ourselves to oblivion about if scum are lying about their votes or not. What we ought to be doing instead, is what any good villa does: focusing on theIn post 118, Frozen Angel wrote:I can tell you that I'm like 95% sure that I had 2 more votes from the remaining playlist and that they would vote me regardless of alignment.
I can even see myself have upto 4 votes between the remaining playerlist.
Looking at this and the votes that are already claimed, it feels like that the scums were uncoordinated pregame or if they were coordinated they were not coordinated enough to bypass the votes on me (or they thought it's unnecessary)
one other theory is that they did pile up on me because they saw sign up thread and felt like I might have some votes so they just halped it happen to put me in spotlight but that feels kind of suboptimal. and they must be lieing about their votes if that's the case. or the people who would vote me regardless of alignment can be those scums.mindsetbehind the vote. Did a player make their vote with town’s best interests in mind or not?
Yep. Nancy is 100% correct here. Though I am concerned about scum lies, I don't actually find them particularly likely with regards to this at least, UNLESS they all piled on a teammate who *didn't* get it and who they don't have verifiable reason to vote for that's unrelated to this game in particular. The reasoning though, that's the thing. The thought process they used to make that decision, and whether that thought process is in line with town!them...that will be useful to at least some people here.GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
Naw, you should keep making points, but your points should be accompanied by reasons so *I* have a reason to give a damn about your perspective.In post 139, zMuffinMan wrote:
i already apologised. do you want me to prostrate myself and beg forgiveness or something?In post 137, Cerberus v666 wrote:@zmuffin: You really did make points. :-/
i won't do it again. sorryGTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
Painting, as in figuratively, as in using a broad brush, broad strokes, to just label them all as engaging in activity x.In post 143, Sakura Hana wrote:
NopeIn post 137, Cerberus v666 wrote:Do you have any contributions to make other than shitting on sando/chickadee/whoever else talked about scum coordination's position?
Painting?In post 137, Cerberus v666 wrote:I see your gradual descent towards painting everyone who is speculating about scum actions as engaging in useless scummy fluffy mechanical talk instead of scumhunting
Maybe you need better glasses then.In post 137, Cerberus v666 wrote:yet I don't actually see you doing anything any better yourself.
The rest of your post is of no value, but thank you for responding to me at least.GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
Oh, and whoever decided that FA and I can't be scum together, please elaborate on that position. I don't believe you're familiar with me at least, so I'm very interested in what it is about FA's play and actions with regards to me that goes against your expectations for her interactions with scummates in the past.GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
Actually, maybe don't elaborate on that yet, but like...I do want elaboration on that by day 3, or if FA flips as scum.GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
That was your only contribution of value to date! And yeah, elaboration is actually bad at this moment, but in general it's information that should be shared in the event of FA!scum.In post 148, Sakura Hana wrote:
That was me Mr. "Sakura's not contributing anything".In post 145, Cerberus v666 wrote:Oh, and whoever decided that FA and I can't be scum together, please elaborate on that position. I don't believe you're familiar with me at least, so I'm very interested in what it is about FA's play and actions with regards to me that goes against your expectations for her interactions with scummates in the past.
And no im not gonna elaborate as of right now, I dont plan on putting much effort atm.GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
For what it's worth FA, I did come into this with the intention of putting forward LOADS less effort than normal, so there's a place for it...I don't think that place is D1 though.In post 150, Frozen Angel wrote:In post 146, zMuffinMan wrote:hmm, ive actually been more forward with stating reads than i initially planned to be in this game so i'm going to stay quiet for a while and observe proceedings and maybe ask questions here or there
If any of these posts were made on MU you were already lynched or dayvigged. Huge culture differences... huuuuugeIn post 148, Sakura Hana wrote:I dont plan on putting much effort atm.
Why would anyone want to reduce their amount of effort intentionally and how will that help?
I do think I'm going to stop bloating the thread myself right now though, since I DID convince some people to play that aren't used to larges/didn't really wanna deal with the volume of a large game, so it would be rude to make that worse myself.GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
Because Cerb!scum isn't possible? Neglecting to include that possibility, which only exists for people who aren't me, WAS a very deliberate decision to see who noticed, so thanks! <3In post 211, 123456789 wrote:
Why only FA!scum?In post 149, Cerberus v666 wrote:
That was your only contribution of value to date! And yeah, elaboration is actually bad at this moment, but in general it's information that should be shared in the event of FA!scum.In post 148, Sakura Hana wrote:
That was me Mr. "Sakura's not contributing anything".In post 145, Cerberus v666 wrote:Oh, and whoever decided that FA and I can't be scum together, please elaborate on that position. I don't believe you're familiar with me at least, so I'm very interested in what it is about FA's play and actions with regards to me that goes against your expectations for her interactions with scummates in the past.
And no im not gonna elaborate as of right now, I dont plan on putting much effort atm.GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
FA, at least 4 people said they voted you right? Myself, Shiro, and two others who responded earlier?
What surprises me is that I had at least 3 votes! If I hadn't voted for you, and nobody else voted for you, I could have been leader! !!GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
I'm pretty sure purely random out of 5/22 is almost guaranteed to wind up with a scum. Purely random with a smaller number of people selected *might* be optimal, but really, I think that's a silly line to take.GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
Pretty much this. I believe the numbers show just how bad town is at lynching scum D1(that is, they're worse than random). Though this isn't quite the same, you're simply trying to find x not scum, so perhaps the comparison isn't fair.In post 279, Titus wrote:
This is true only if information present. D1 has no valid info. Only egos. D1 selections are nothing more than who is effective at buddying.In post 272, Frozen Angel wrote:Even with a smaller number a biased opinion is nearly always equal or better to a random pick.
Because I don't know her alignment and a conscious choice made by her is more informative for late game work than a random one.In post 280, Titus wrote:@Cerb, Didn't you say Mafia success is about reducing and eliminating the biases in logic? Why seek to subject them upon Frozen when a random strategy is just as effective?
I think he answered this. The better question may be why does nico have such conviction in his opinion about you.In post 283, Titus wrote:@Nico, Why did you vote for me to be leader?GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
Fair enough.
Oh, also related to the whole team selection by FA: it's also possible that there are individuals in this game who FA can identify as town D1 with a high likelihood of being correct, so that also supports her making her own decisions. I'm bad at D1 generally speaking, for the lack of information reasons you noted, but there are still people(like Drixx) that I'm confident I can positively ID as town on D1 if I can get them talking enough.GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
Nothing from this alone unfortunately. I don't have enough experience with this particular player to attach too much significance to it, I don't know if it's out of character or not. I like the fact that they questioned me on it, and the fact that the questioning was super neutral. Had they phrased it in a more aggressive/suspicious fashion, it would be cause for me to feel a bit suspicious of them...but again, in the absence of experience with their playstyle, I'd need to wait until later in the game to see how they handled other, similar situations, before having much certainty in my conclusions.In post 296, Gamma Emerald wrote:
Thoughts on 1-9's alignment based on this?In post 233, Cerberus v666 wrote:
Because Cerb!scum isn't possible? Neglecting to include that possibility, which only exists for people who aren't me, WAS a very deliberate decision to see who noticed, so thanks! <3In post 211, 123456789 wrote:
Why only FA!scum?In post 149, Cerberus v666 wrote:
That was your only contribution of value to date! And yeah, elaboration is actually bad at this moment, but in general it's information that should be shared in the event of FA!scum.In post 148, Sakura Hana wrote:
That was me Mr. "Sakura's not contributing anything".In post 145, Cerberus v666 wrote:Oh, and whoever decided that FA and I can't be scum together, please elaborate on that position. I don't believe you're familiar with me at least, so I'm very interested in what it is about FA's play and actions with regards to me that goes against your expectations for her interactions with scummates in the past.
And no im not gonna elaborate as of right now, I dont plan on putting much effort atm.GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
Hi, this is a request for anyone with more experience with Sando to let me know if this nudge towards optimal play is in their range as scum on D1!In post 179, Sando wrote:
Not seeing the advantage of FA telling us before nightfall? FA is immune from NKs overnight correct? She can tell us tomorrow unquestioningly I believe and give the scum no info on the heroes she chose. Am I missing something?In post 177, Toranaga wrote:from my understanding of it FA should choose and announce it before night is called, and I think if the heroes can choose their abilities they should actually not instantly claim cause then wolves know what people they should PR hunt first.
but I'll leave the mechanics for those who have read the things properly instead of lazily skimming it.
Does FA get a power herself or just the people she chooses?GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
23 total....FA is one of them, so 22 remaining...she picks *5* OTHER players...so 5/22 can be selected at most.In post 310, Gamma Emerald wrote:
huh?In post 271, Cerberus v666 wrote:I'm pretty sure purely random out of5/22is almost guaranteed to wind up with a scum. Purely random with a smaller number of people selected *might* be optimal, but really, I think that's a silly line to take.GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
Nope, because all this is only relevant if she's town. If she's scum she's PROBABLY not going to actually randomize, though she may claim to do so.In post 313, Titus wrote:Shouldn't we consider FA as random though?GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
Do you expect to townread a large enough number of people D1 that randomizing within that pool will have value?In post 315, Frozen Angel wrote:As I said the only way I might randomize is from a pool of people I townread.
We can even decide that pool by consulting about members I think
pedit: Regarding mechanical stuff, based on the abilities on offer and the method by which we decide who gets powers or not, I think it's safe to assume that scum have a factional ability to have *at least* one additional kill/a strongman kill/a roleblock happen during a night. It's possible that they don't, and that we'll see vig powers in the near future, but I find it unlikely that the game would have the possibility of 6 always BP town being created on N1.
*shrug* Maybe I'm wrong though, idk. I was just thinking about whether or not it would be optimal to just have everyone select the BP thing and use it all the time to minimize scum's ability to safely take shots. Even if there is other stuff they can do, it might be best to do that anyways, since it should force the use of resources to secure kills at night, or else they risk gambling stuff? This would, of course, have to be combined with FA *not* claiming who is on her team N1. Just a thought, basically put no effort into it so Drixx and Titus and other people who see when things are mechanically bad ideas please tell me if it's a bad idea kthx.GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
Possible, I don't know this moderator so I can't speculate about what they would or wouldn't have in the game. The fact that there are probably factionals other than the kill makes such a thing unnecessary, but it could happen. In Civ was the fact that scum could gain powers that weren't publicly announced as possibilities a publicly known fact about the game, even if exactly what those powers would be wasn't?In post 324, Frozen Angel wrote:
no I will probably fail at having 5 solid onesIn post 321, Cerberus v666 wrote:
Do you expect to townread a large enough number of people D1 that randomizing within that pool will have value?In post 315, Frozen Angel wrote:As I said the only way I might randomize is from a pool of people I townread.
We can even decide that pool by consulting about members I think
pedit: Regarding mechanical stuff, based on the abilities on offer and the method by which we decide who gets powers or not, I think it's safe to assume that scum have a factional ability to have *at least* one additional kill/a strongman kill/a roleblock happen during a night. It's possible that they don't, and that we'll see vig powers in the near future, but I find it unlikely that the game would have the possibility of 6 always BP town being created on N1.
*shrug* Maybe I'm wrong though, idk. I was just thinking about whether or not it would be optimal to just have everyone select the BP thing and use it all the time to minimize scum's ability to safely take shots. Even if there is other stuff they can do, it might be best to do that anyways, since it should force the use of resources to secure kills at night, or else they risk gambling stuff? This would, of course, have to be combined with FA *not* claiming who is on her team N1. Just a thought, basically put no effort into it so Drixx and Titus and other people who see when things are mechanically bad ideas please tell me if it's a bad idea kthx.
what do you think with scum having a league of villans or something idea of me?
The spirit medium I assume, it's a hood with a dead slot for the day/night after they died.In post 325, Frozen Angel wrote:
what neighborize ability are you talking about?In post 323, NicoRobin wrote:
1. Because you like meIn post 307, Titus wrote:
Why do you think I would choose you? Do you think being chosen is advantageous?In post 293, NicoRobin wrote:@Titus Because from my experience you're a good asset for town, and partially because I wanted to be chosen.
2. Not neccessarily, I just want to be a neighborizer.GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
So, again, the presence of those abilities as a possibility was known. When trying to figure out what happened mechanically, the players were aware that there were these scum options that they could have. That might be the case later on, but I don't think there will be abilities that they will have access to that we won't be aware of as possibilities. Doesn't seem to work with the whole minigame with having different abilities available that everyone knows are around. However, the fact that Im' pretty sure there are scum factionals kinda messes with the limited possibilities idea, so fuck if I know wtf is going on. I don't think we can actually constructively discuss the possible scum options at this point, other than to say things that it makes sense for scum to have...but we can't rule out things as stuff scum *won't* have.In post 330, Frozen Angel wrote:
yes in civ there were wonders that were only buildable by scum which were known and adoptable by scum so if they were chosen with some mechanic they could build them etcIn post 327, Cerberus v666 wrote:Possible, I don't know this moderator so I can't speculate about what they would or wouldn't have in the game. The fact that there are probably factionals other than the kill makes such a thing unnecessary, but it could happen. In Civ was the fact that scum could gain powers that weren't publicly announced as possibilities a publicly known fact about the game, even if exactly what those powers would be wasn't?
It will make it more powerful than a 1 shot factional block or factional cop cause it will be perma
they might get a perma strongman or something out of that too
or abilities that might mess with leader voting itself
There are so many possibilities
pedit:@FA, yes they can, and they can learn them both inthe same night.GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
Naw, I shouldn't be leader. I won't be lynched, and I don't expect to be shot at, especially considering there's basically no chance I won't end up on the team tonight, at which point I'll almost certainly choose to be impenetrable from now till forever...so naw, no need for me to be the leader.In post 342, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
I want Cerb! *arm wrestles hebi*In post 338, hebichan wrote:I will renominate kokichi for leader tomorrow.
I do appreciate the vote of confidence though! <3GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
Cool, whatever day you decide you want to start playing on, please elaborate on your objections to that post. ^^In post 358, Sakura Hana wrote:Oh man, and just when i was thinking of switching my vote, Cerb goes ahead and posts #353GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
@Sando: universal BP is probably safest, but the fact that it exists does imply some degree of ease at bypassing it. The redirection is better as universal protection(or whatever you call it when you make actions that target you go elsewhere), but ONLY if the people using it only target consensus scum and/or lynchbait lurker types+we don't grab investigatives going forward. Sakura is correct that we have no way to test for someone taking BP, so any sort of plan we'd make with powers would have to assume that scum will not be following orders.
If we wanted to make this START as a functionally vanilla game, if we lynch town today everyone could pick the medium power, use that on the lynchee, and that would create a network of pts with a town center that would confirm everyone picked and used that power. That play sets up for some potentially very strong plays in the future, with repeated hero teams able to use that pt network to privately coordinate power selection, but it's dependent on the trust the dead slot has for the people it's communicating with, as well as the leaders ability to select a town group. There's also vulnerability to scum roleblocking used as a framing tool, but that would largely be a crapshoot.
I think the medium line has the greatest potential upside if executed perfectly, but is probably impractical.GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
@mod: are all of today's powers stopped by a theoretical roleblocker, even the BP?
If multiple people target the same individual with spirit medium, what happens?
If someone using the medium power is redirected to a living slot, what happens?GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
I'm not assuming that? What I do know is that the moderator has said that the abilities chosen are permanent, and the one's listed today are not limited shots. That means those who end up on the team today could all choose the BP power and use it every night from this point forward. If they're all town AND scum have no way to break through the BP, then it would mean that it could theoretically become impossible for scum to lose(6 town>5 scum, they can't kill them, if they all bloc together and just lynch through the rest of the game while invulnerable scum can't possibly win), therefore there exists a means by which scum could break through said BP, either via multiple kills, empowered/strongman abilities, day kills, or roleblocking(assuming that works on the BP, which, given that it's a triggered BP, I would assume it does), and it makes the most sense for whatever that means is to exist as a factional ability which the scum team possesses.In post 381, 123456789 wrote:
Don't the powers change each day? Why are you assuming there will be a bulletproof available each day?In post 321, Cerberus v666 wrote:
Do you expect to townread a large enough number of people D1 that randomizing within that pool will have value?In post 315, Frozen Angel wrote:As I said the only way I might randomize is from a pool of people I townread.
We can even decide that pool by consulting about members I think
pedit: Regarding mechanical stuff, based on the abilities on offer and the method by which we decide who gets powers or not, I think it's safe to assume that scum have a factional ability to have *at least* one additional kill/a strongman kill/a roleblock happen during a night. It's possible that they don't, and that we'll see vig powers in the near future, but I find it unlikely that the game would have the possibility of 6 always BP town being created on N1.
*shrug* Maybe I'm wrong though, idk. I was just thinking about whether or not it would be optimal to just have everyone select the BP thing and use it all the time to minimize scum's ability to safely take shots. Even if there is other stuff they can do, it might be best to do that anyways, since it should force the use of resources to secure kills at night, or else they risk gambling stuff? This would, of course, have to be combined with FA *not* claiming who is on her team N1. Just a thought, basically put no effort into it so Drixx and Titus and other people who see when things are mechanically bad ideas please tell me if it's a bad idea kthx.GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
Oooh, day kils wouldn't even work versus the BP, it's from trigger until the next night phase.
@Single digit positive integers: The BP works against a single kill from the time it's triggered until the next night phase. Then they could trigger it again the next night phase...and so on. There is no clause in the ability indicating that it's a passive one shot ability, OR that they lose the ability if the BP ever protects them from a kill.GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
Also, someone who isn't feeling lazy should gather up the leader vote stuff. If I have to I'll do it myself sometime this weekend, but I don't really feel like it.GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
Pretty sure the fourth answer there also answers the first question, since that's the entire point behind asking that question.In post 393, The Dream Weaver wrote:In post 363, Cerberus v666 wrote:are all of today's powers stopped by a theoretical roleblocker, even the BP?After a fair amount of deliberation, I've decided I don't like this question and have chosen not to answer it.
In post 363, Cerberus v666 wrote:If multiple people target the same individual with spirit medium, what happens?If it's a valid target, The Spirit gets access to multiple neighborhoods.
In post 363, Cerberus v666 wrote:If someone using the medium power is redirected to a living slot, what happens?Spiritual Mediumship fails on living players.
In post 384, 123456789 wrote:@Mod: Are all abilities active abilities? Or are some like Impenetrable Skin passive? In particular, if someone chose Impenetrable Skin tonight, would they only be protected tonight or get to choose when to activate it? And if they get to choose.... It would be 1-shot in that case, right?Every ability in this game has to be activated in order to be used.
Alright, cool. So the BP can be stopped, the BP can happen every single night, so my entire line of reasoning is valid. Universal BP/redirection is still good because it gives every scum shot that's not backed up by extra ability usage a ~20% chance of failing for the rest of the game, if the first nights people are all kept secret and are all town. The medium spirit circle thing also works, but it can be stopped using an ability which we know will be present in the game without scum having to dip into whatever their powers are, so it can be messed up by town on accident or scum on purpose.
I'm kind of over the whole mechanics discussion now though. I've planted the seeds of the concepts I want scum to worry about and town to consider, so we can probably move on to actual scumhunting now.GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
As always, elaboration is appreciated. Titus definitely has content, so I'm sure you have a reason.
GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
Like, I don't really even get this. The entire Human/Sando/Toranago exchange was pretty meh to me, so I'd like to know what you got out of it; in particular, what about it led you to that pair of conclusions.
GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
Cool, looking forward to it. I think I'm going to refer to you as SDPI from now, k? ^^GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
Maybe you should go reread my mechanical posts this game. I mentioned the possibility(nay, I even argued that there almost certainly are!) factional abilities that would allow scum to break up a 6 man all town BP fest on D1.In post 468, Titus wrote:
It does seem rather hinky. It's rather unlike Cerb to suppose town can just keep 6 people alive indefinitely and that FA would automatically trust him. Seems exactly why scum would let FA be a leader. Town!Cerb is more of a critical thinker than that. Town!Cerb would also consider the possibility of a factionsl strongman.In post 358, Sakura Hana wrote:Oh man, and just when i was thinking of switching my vote, Cerb goes ahead and posts #353
VOTE: Cerb
Regarding FA trusting me: I'm quite confident FA knows EXACTLY what I was doing with that post, and that just makes it more likely I'd be selected. *shrug*GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
Responses to my Sando question as well as the spirit medium circle option would be much appreciated.
Titus, now that I think about it: I would have very much expected you(and Drixx, at least) to have also known what I was doing with that post. The fact that you didn't is concerning, as is your willingness to push me over it on D1. Is this a new line of play you're trying out this game?GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
Since attention is being called to it now, FA, my 358: was I right in assuming that you'd understand what I was trying to accomplish with it? Don't say what it was! Just making sure that my assumption about how you'd take that post was correct.In post 485, Frozen Angel wrote:Oh so alisae is switching like the way ufo was in nintendo game
and probably is doing it to help scumGTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
<3In post 499, Frozen Angel wrote:
If you mean 353, you know that I can understand when someone is putting some wine in the field. I just count that approach NAI coming from you.In post 494, Cerberus v666 wrote:
Since attention is being called to it now, FA, my 358: was I right in assuming that you'd understand what I was trying to accomplish with it? Don't say what it was! Just making sure that my assumption about how you'd take that post was correct.In post 485, Frozen Angel wrote:Oh so alisae is switching like the way ufo was in nintendo game
and probably is doing it to help scum
Fair enough. Thoughts on Titus, of all people, not getting that?GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
And yet if everyone does what you're doing, you'll never know if they noticed the same things you did...why the need for additional justification this time, when you were happy just saying no, not D1, previously? This time you have a scumhunting goal. What changed? Why didn't you say this the last time if it was true then?In post 505, Sakura Hana wrote:
Can? Sure.In post 500, Frozen Angel wrote:can you write one sentence for each
Will I? Nah.
Don't feel interested enough to defend any TR or SR yet, much rather see if anyone notices what im noticing.GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
Why am town based on meta here? We have...2?...games together, and I think I was town in both. What about my play here is so reminiscent of those other games that I'm probably town, and probably not just good at duplicating my recent town play?In post 506, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
I dunno. I think Cerb is likely town here based on meta. Where do you get that scum wanted FA to be a leader? It looked like a mostly town vote to me. Why would you think FA’s being a leader is primarily scum motivated?In post 468, Titus wrote:
It does seem rather hinky. It's rather unlike Cerb to suppose town can just keep 6 people alive indefinitely and that FA would automatically trust him. Seems exactly why scum would let FA be a leader. Town!Cerb is more of a critical thinker than that. Town!Cerb would also consider the possibility of a factionsl strongman.In post 358, Sakura Hana wrote:Oh man, and just when i was thinking of switching my vote, Cerb goes ahead and posts #353
VOTE: CerbGTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
Okay. So this, along with the "deliberately ignoring thing", ping me pretty hard. Normally, when someone looks at a post I made and chooses to ignore all of it except one part, they just do so without the snarky comment included. This generally results in them getting pushed more about the part they ignored by myself, and anyone else who was interested in the point(s) I raised.In post 526, Sakura Hana wrote:
And so what im doing in this game was born.In post 2488, Sakura Hana wrote:I'm definitely not repeating that day 1 again.
I see deliberately calling out the fact that she ignored the rest of the post as an attempt to preempt said pushing. I was debating whether to ask if that bit of flavor in Sakuras post was characteristic of her posting style, or if it had a good chance of being preemptive scum deflection, but this last post seems to support my position . Here Sakura is again, preempting questioning about her reason for playing the way she is, by posting a link and a joke. She already said it was because of a game in the past, nobody asked for a link to the game or anything, but here she is ready to justify what she's doing before the conversation gets too deep into whether her behavior is anti-town or not.GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
Hi. Nancy, I don't think theres anything positive that comes from a conversation that includes you suggesting that another player wishes you weren't in the game. Maybe you guys can just table whatever this problem is, and discuss it at another time/through another medium, one where you aren't playing a game where manipulation is part of how things are done.GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
Titus, people don't shoot me. You know that. I know that. I have been shot at like three times ever in all the games of mafia I've played, and one of those times it was because I literally claimed cop on D1. I have been lynched EVEN LESS OFTEN. I'm ALWAYS this certain(regardless of alignment) that I will not die. The potential of power just makes it EVEN LESS LIKELY, given that 33% of the available powers will prevent a kill from hitting the person who takes the power.In post 546, Titus wrote:
Basic math. 5 scum. If scum didn't want FA to be leader, they coordinate on someone else. FA has received fewer than 5 votes claimed. The Day 1 leader is always scum motivated. (Note: That does not mean FA scum).In post 506, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
I dunno. I think Cerb is likely town here based on meta. Where do you get that scum wanted FA to be a leader? It looked like a mostly town vote to me. Why would you think FA’s being a leader is primarily scum motivated?In post 468, Titus wrote:
It does seem rather hinky. It's rather unlike Cerb to suppose town can just keep 6 people alive indefinitely and that FA would automatically trust him. Seems exactly why scum would let FA be a leader. Town!Cerb is more of a critical thinker than that. Town!Cerb would also consider the possibility of a factionsl strongman.In post 358, Sakura Hana wrote:Oh man, and just when i was thinking of switching my vote, Cerb goes ahead and posts #353
VOTE: Cerb
Cerb acting as if he cannot die is rather scummy. A town Cerb considers that a) There might be a factional strongman b) That FA might read him as scum incorrectly and thus not give him a vest or c) imply she would give cerb a vest to protect more town reads but scum shoot Cerb anyway.
In addition...read my posts? Actually respond to those? Please don't do the bullshit "oh you're scum now so I'm not going to interact with you" thing that so many fucking idiots here do. I called out factionals and other possibilities REPEATEDLY, and B/C *don't actually matter because the only thing that matters is maintaining that the POSSIBILITY of protection exists for me.
This is even stupider than the previous thing, somehow. I'm fucking astonished by your audacity in stating that *I* fail to understand relevance.In post 547, Titus wrote:
I find you both are acting arrogant and fail to understand relevance. Everyone, even me, selectively responds. Why and to what reveal alignment. By jumping to the scum conclusion, it's not hunting but a straw man. For d1 it might get something to start the game but nothing to get mighty over. Sakura probably town.In post 538, Toranaga wrote:
I love that sakura is being pushed for this and find your reasoning extremely villagery from you, and I was villa reading your posting before anyway so this is cool. I don't know if I agree with this, though. I don't think sakura is necessarily doing what she is doing as an excuse to not work on the game, but rather because she is the kind of individualistic millennial generation type of player. I'm sure she'll start posting reads as the game progresses regardless of her rand.In post 532, Cerberus v666 wrote:
Okay. So this, along with the "deliberately ignoring thing", ping me pretty hard. Normally, when someone looks at a post I made and chooses to ignore all of it except one part, they just do so without the snarky comment included. This generally results in them getting pushed more about the part they ignored by myself, and anyone else who was interested in the point(s) I raised.In post 526, Sakura Hana wrote:
And so what im doing in this game was born.In post 2488, Sakura Hana wrote:I'm definitely not repeating that day 1 again.
I see deliberately calling out the fact that she ignored the rest of the post as an attempt to preempt said pushing. I was debating whether to ask if that bit of flavor in Sakuras post was characteristic of her posting style, or if it had a good chance of being preemptive scum deflection, but this last post seems to support my position . Here Sakura is again, preempting questioning about her reason for playing the way she is, by posting a link and a joke. She already said it was because of a game in the past, nobody asked for a link to the game or anything, but here she is ready to justify what she's doing before the conversation gets too deep into whether her behavior is anti-town or not.
I give ZERO fucks about her choosing to not answer something(it was brought up by her yesterday, and I gave her no notable shit about it). I give MANY fucks about *the way* she chose to not answer things. The question of "is phrasing thigns this way, and throwing in this little addendum pointing out the obvious decision to not answer the rest of the post, something that town!sakura does?" should be naturally fucking implied by my entire post. I say this is suspicious. If that behavior isn't suspicious for this person, tell me why. Is it not suspicious because it's natural behavior for them? Is it not suspicious because it's NEVER SUSPICIOUS, no matter who does it or in what context?
This is also my friendly reminder that I, Titus, do not act outside of my D1 town meta as scum, because that meta makes it really fucking easy to get away with basically anything later in the game. If you think me picking a hill to die on on D1(which, btw, I'm not actually doing, but you somehow seem to think I *am*) is abnormal, it's not scummy. *shrug*GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
]In post 551, Titus wrote:
It's theoretically possibly both are wrong town. It happens a lot. Strawmen cases are very anti-town. They decided that Sakura was scummy and then used her response to justify it.In post 550, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
Based on Minuet game, I can relate to where she’s coming from. I experienced a very similar thing in a recent game (offsite). If you make reasonable assumptions based on logic that other people disagree with, you can get mistakenly scumread for that. I know what happened to me is still messing with my head. But why is their push scummy rather than probably wrong? I’ve observed plenty of games (primarily on MU) where town gets stuck in tunnel vision? Could that not be the case here?In post 547, Titus wrote:
I find you both are acting arrogant and fail to understand relevance. Everyone, even me, selectively responds. Why and to what reveal alignment. By jumping to the scum conclusion, it's not hunting but a straw man. For d1 it might get something to start the game but nothing to get mighty over. Sakura probably town.In post 538, Toranaga wrote:
I love that sakura is being pushed for this and find your reasoning extremely villagery from you, and I was villa reading your posting before anyway so this is cool. I don't know if I agree with this, though. I don't think sakura is necessarily doing what she is doing as an excuse to not work on the game, but rather because she is the kind of individualistic millennial generation type of player. I'm sure she'll start posting reads as the game progresses regardless of her rand.In post 532, Cerberus v666 wrote:
Okay. So this, along with the "deliberately ignoring thing", ping me pretty hard. Normally, when someone looks at a post I made and chooses to ignore all of it except one part, they just do so without the snarky comment included. This generally results in them getting pushed more about the part they ignored by myself, and anyone else who was interested in the point(s) I raised.In post 526, Sakura Hana wrote:
And so what im doing in this game was born.In post 2488, Sakura Hana wrote:I'm definitely not repeating that day 1 again.
I see deliberately calling out the fact that she ignored the rest of the post as an attempt to preempt said pushing. I was debating whether to ask if that bit of flavor in Sakuras post was characteristic of her posting style, or if it had a good chance of being preemptive scum deflection, but this last post seems to support my position . Here Sakura is again, preempting questioning about her reason for playing the way she is, by posting a link and a joke. She already said it was because of a game in the past, nobody asked for a link to the game or anything, but here she is ready to justify what she's doing before the conversation gets too deep into whether her behavior is anti-town or not.
There's even a theoetical chance they are trying to convince themselves of Sakura being scum.
It's just so anti-characteristic of Cerb when I ususally get hemms and haws no matter how hard I plead.
UFO just tends to chase strawmen so less worrying from him.
Oh. I"m actually going to explicitly state right here that Sakura doesn't even show up on my radar as potentially scum,b ecause I don't even know them...so I certainly don't know them enough to decisively say they're scum or not. I CAN SAY that they are exhibiting behaviors which I can see clear scum motivation for though.GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
Not worried about buddying, just find it unlikely that you have sufficient exposure to me to have a real strong town read on me at this point based on meta. I need to determine if your levels of certainty are way different than mine, and that what you're calling a town read based on meta is what I'd consider just weak evidence of towniness, or if you legitimately feel as strongly about me being town as your statements imply.In post 556, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
Cerb’s asking me how I didn’t know if he was “duplicating his town game” seemed odd to me. How could I possibly be expected to differentiate between his town game and a hypothetical pretend town game? But I think it’s more likely he was worried that I might be buddying him, so I can understand why he’d be questioning me on that.In post 551, Titus wrote:
It's theoretically possibly both are wrong town. It happens a lot. Strawmen cases are very anti-town. They decided that Sakura was scummy and then used her response to justify it.In post 550, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
Based on Minuet game, I can relate to where she’s coming from. I experienced a very similar thing in a recent game (offsite). If you make reasonable assumptions based on logic that other people disagree with, you can get mistakenly scumread for that. I know what happened to me is still messing with my head. But why is their push scummy rather than probably wrong? I’ve observed plenty of games (primarily on MU) where town gets stuck in tunnel vision? Could that not be the case here?In post 547, Titus wrote:
I find you both are acting arrogant and fail to understand relevance. Everyone, even me, selectively responds. Why and to what reveal alignment. By jumping to the scum conclusion, it's not hunting but a straw man. For d1 it might get something to start the game but nothing to get mighty over. Sakura probably town.In post 538, Toranaga wrote:
I love that sakura is being pushed for this and find your reasoning extremely villagery from you, and I was villa reading your posting before anyway so this is cool. I don't know if I agree with this, though. I don't think sakura is necessarily doing what she is doing as an excuse to not work on the game, but rather because she is the kind of individualistic millennial generation type of player. I'm sure she'll start posting reads as the game progresses regardless of her rand.In post 532, Cerberus v666 wrote:
Okay. So this, along with the "deliberately ignoring thing", ping me pretty hard. Normally, when someone looks at a post I made and chooses to ignore all of it except one part, they just do so without the snarky comment included. This generally results in them getting pushed more about the part they ignored by myself, and anyone else who was interested in the point(s) I raised.In post 526, Sakura Hana wrote:
And so what im doing in this game was born.In post 2488, Sakura Hana wrote:I'm definitely not repeating that day 1 again.
I see deliberately calling out the fact that she ignored the rest of the post as an attempt to preempt said pushing. I was debating whether to ask if that bit of flavor in Sakuras post was characteristic of her posting style, or if it had a good chance of being preemptive scum deflection, but this last post seems to support my position . Here Sakura is again, preempting questioning about her reason for playing the way she is, by posting a link and a joke. She already said it was because of a game in the past, nobody asked for a link to the game or anything, but here she is ready to justify what she's doing before the conversation gets too deep into whether her behavior is anti-town or not.
There's even a theoetical chance they are trying to convince themselves of Sakura being scum.
It's just so anti-characteristic of Cerb when I ususally get hemms and haws no matter how hard I plead.
UFO just tends to chase strawmen so less worrying from him.
pedit: If you're not ignoring me, then stop repeatedly lying and saying that I never considered scum faction strongmen/roleblockers/empowered abilities, because I EXPLICITLY considered all three of those things, in two separate posts, and honestly, that's the STRONGEST part of the reason you've given for expressing any suspicion, and it's completely wrong.GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
In post 568, Titus wrote:The possibility of protection exists for everyone barring a strongman.No grandstanding needs to be done to protect it.
I disagree with the bolded, because people are stupid. Gotta keep shoving their faces in the fact that up to ~20% of the game could be BP after tonight alone, thereby giving them cause to utilize (hopefully limited use) factional powers to ensure kills occur!GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
In post 571, Titus wrote:I haven't seen you actually consider them. Which posts do you feel I missed? I am human and have been swamped a bit.In post 321, Cerberus v666 wrote:
Do you expect to townread a large enough number of people D1 that randomizing within that pool will have value?In post 315, Frozen Angel wrote:As I said the only way I might randomize is from a pool of people I townread.
We can even decide that pool by consulting about members I think
pedit: Regarding mechanical stuff, based on the abilities on offer and the method by which we decide who gets powers or not,I think it's safe to assume that scum have a factional ability to have *at least* one additional kill/a strongman kill/a roleblock happen during a night. It's possible that they don't, and that we'll see vig powers in the near future, but I find it unlikely that the game would have the possibility of 6 always BP town being created on N1.
*shrug* Maybe I'm wrong though, idk. I was just thinking about whether or not it would be optimal to just have everyone select the BP thing and use it all the time to minimize scum's ability to safely take shots. Even if there is other stuff they can do, it might be best to do that anyways, since it should force the use of resources to secure kills at night, or else they risk gambling stuff? This would, of course, have to be combined with FA *not* claiming who is on her team N1. Just a thought, basically put no effort into it so Drixx and Titus and other people who see when things are mechanically bad ideas please tell me if it's a bad idea kthx.In post 327, Cerberus v666 wrote:
Possible, I don't know this moderator so I can't speculate about what they would or wouldn't have in the game.In post 324, Frozen Angel wrote:
no I will probably fail at having 5 solid onesIn post 321, Cerberus v666 wrote:
Do you expect to townread a large enough number of people D1 that randomizing within that pool will have value?In post 315, Frozen Angel wrote:As I said the only way I might randomize is from a pool of people I townread.
We can even decide that pool by consulting about members I think
pedit: Regarding mechanical stuff, based on the abilities on offer and the method by which we decide who gets powers or not, I think it's safe to assume that scum have a factional ability to have *at least* one additional kill/a strongman kill/a roleblock happen during a night. It's possible that they don't, and that we'll see vig powers in the near future, but I find it unlikely that the game would have the possibility of 6 always BP town being created on N1.
*shrug* Maybe I'm wrong though, idk. I was just thinking about whether or not it would be optimal to just have everyone select the BP thing and use it all the time to minimize scum's ability to safely take shots. Even if there is other stuff they can do, it might be best to do that anyways, since it should force the use of resources to secure kills at night, or else they risk gambling stuff? This would, of course, have to be combined with FA *not* claiming who is on her team N1. Just a thought, basically put no effort into it so Drixx and Titus and other people who see when things are mechanically bad ideas please tell me if it's a bad idea kthx.
what do you think with scum having a league of villans or something idea of me?The fact that there are probably factionals other than the kill makes such a thing unnecessary, but it could happen.In Civ was the fact that scum could gain powers that weren't publicly announced as possibilities a publicly known fact about the game, even if exactly what those powers would be wasn't?
The spirit medium I assume, it's a hood with a dead slot for the day/night after they died.In post 325, Frozen Angel wrote:
what neighborize ability are you talking about?In post 323, NicoRobin wrote:
1. Because you like meIn post 307, Titus wrote:
Why do you think I would choose you? Do you think being chosen is advantageous?In post 293, NicoRobin wrote:@Titus Because from my experience you're a good asset for town, and partially because I wanted to be chosen.
2. Not neccessarily, I just want to be a neighborizer.In post 333, Cerberus v666 wrote:
So, again, the presence of those abilities as a possibility was known. When trying to figure out what happened mechanically, the players were aware that there were these scum options that they could have. That might be the case later on, but I don't think there will be abilities that they will have access to that we won't be aware of as possibilities. Doesn't seem to work with the whole minigame with having different abilities available that everyone knows are around.In post 330, Frozen Angel wrote:
yes in civ there were wonders that were only buildable by scum which were known and adoptable by scum so if they were chosen with some mechanic they could build them etcIn post 327, Cerberus v666 wrote:Possible, I don't know this moderator so I can't speculate about what they would or wouldn't have in the game. The fact that there are probably factionals other than the kill makes such a thing unnecessary, but it could happen. In Civ was the fact that scum could gain powers that weren't publicly announced as possibilities a publicly known fact about the game, even if exactly what those powers would be wasn't?
It will make it more powerful than a 1 shot factional block or factional cop cause it will be perma
they might get a perma strongman or something out of that too
or abilities that might mess with leader voting itself
There are so many possibilitiesHowever, the fact that Im' pretty sure there are scum factionalskinda messes with the limited possibilities idea, so fuck if I know wtf is going on. I don't think we can actually constructively discuss the possible scum options at this point, other than to say things that it makes sense for scum to have...but we can't rule out things as stuff scum *won't* have.
pedit:@FA, yes they can, and they can learn them both inthe same night.
Multiple mentions of scum factionals bolded, as well as two explicitly mentions of factional strongmen, empowered abilities, extra kills to bypass a single kill protect, and roleblocking.In post 388, Cerberus v666 wrote:
I'm not assuming that?In post 381, 123456789 wrote:
Don't the powers change each day? Why are you assuming there will be a bulletproof available each day?In post 321, Cerberus v666 wrote:
Do you expect to townread a large enough number of people D1 that randomizing within that pool will have value?In post 315, Frozen Angel wrote:As I said the only way I might randomize is from a pool of people I townread.
We can even decide that pool by consulting about members I think
pedit: Regarding mechanical stuff, based on the abilities on offer and the method by which we decide who gets powers or not, I think it's safe to assume that scum have a factional ability to have *at least* one additional kill/a strongman kill/a roleblock happen during a night. It's possible that they don't, and that we'll see vig powers in the near future, but I find it unlikely that the game would have the possibility of 6 always BP town being created on N1.
*shrug* Maybe I'm wrong though, idk. I was just thinking about whether or not it would be optimal to just have everyone select the BP thing and use it all the time to minimize scum's ability to safely take shots. Even if there is other stuff they can do, it might be best to do that anyways, since it should force the use of resources to secure kills at night, or else they risk gambling stuff? This would, of course, have to be combined with FA *not* claiming who is on her team N1. Just a thought, basically put no effort into it so Drixx and Titus and other people who see when things are mechanically bad ideas please tell me if it's a bad idea kthx.What I do know is that the moderator has said that the abilities chosen are permanent, and the one's listed today are not limited shots. That means those who end up on the team today could all choose the BP power and use it every night from this point forward. If they're all town AND scum have no way to break through the BP, then it would mean that it could theoretically become impossible for scum to lose(6 town>5 scum, they can't kill them, if they all bloc together and just lynch through the rest of the game while invulnerable scum can't possibly win), therefore there exists a means by which scum could break through said BP, either via multiple kills, empowered/strongman abilities, day kills, or roleblocking(assuming that works on the BP, which, given that it's a triggered BP, I would assume it does), and it makes the most sense for whatever that means is to exist as a factional ability which the scum team possesses.GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
Enhanced hearing is not tracking, and is therefore bad. If it were tracking, I could agree with you that 6x tracking is a strong option. I think the strongest long term option is probably the 6x medium for the coordination it will offer(again, creation of a voting bloc larger than the scum team as a possibility, as well as planning future actions), but it might be too slow to get going. It's almost certainly the lowest risk option though, if we think scum is likely in the hero team, because it contains a way to confirm that every person in the team chose that ability.
pedit: I don't disregard them! I don't assume that people who have those abilities will actually stay alive forever. I assume that scum will have to persistently utilize their(again, hopefully limited) resources to have any hope of SECURING kills.GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
In post 577, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
I’m assuming the last part isn’t addressed to me. When I sort people in early game, I often do this based on early game weak reads. I usually townlean people this early on for the most part. I get in trouble for this a lot. I very rarely have strong reads on D1 - even less for scum.In post 569, Cerberus v666 wrote:
Not worried about buddying, just find it unlikely that you have sufficient exposure to me to have a real strong town read on me at this point based on meta. I need to determine if your levels of certainty are way different than mine, and that what you're calling a town read based on meta is what I'd consider just weak evidence of towniness, or if you legitimately feel as strongly about me being town as your statements imply.In post 556, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
Cerb’s asking me how I didn’t know if he was “duplicating his town game” seemed odd to me. How could I possibly be expected to differentiate between his town game and a hypothetical pretend town game? But I think it’s more likely he was worried that I might be buddying him, so I can understand why he’d be questioning me on that.In post 551, Titus wrote:
It's theoretically possibly both are wrong town. It happens a lot. Strawmen cases are very anti-town. They decided that Sakura was scummy and then used her response to justify it.In post 550, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
Based on Minuet game, I can relate to where she’s coming from. I experienced a very similar thing in a recent game (offsite). If you make reasonable assumptions based on logic that other people disagree with, you can get mistakenly scumread for that. I know what happened to me is still messing with my head. But why is their push scummy rather than probably wrong? I’ve observed plenty of games (primarily on MU) where town gets stuck in tunnel vision? Could that not be the case here?In post 547, Titus wrote:
I find you both are acting arrogant and fail to understand relevance. Everyone, even me, selectively responds. Why and to what reveal alignment. By jumping to the scum conclusion, it's not hunting but a straw man. For d1 it might get something to start the game but nothing to get mighty over. Sakura probably town.In post 538, Toranaga wrote:
I love that sakura is being pushed for this and find your reasoning extremely villagery from you, and I was villa reading your posting before anyway so this is cool. I don't know if I agree with this, though. I don't think sakura is necessarily doing what she is doing as an excuse to not work on the game, but rather because she is the kind of individualistic millennial generation type of player. I'm sure she'll start posting reads as the game progresses regardless of her rand.In post 532, Cerberus v666 wrote:
Okay. So this, along with the "deliberately ignoring thing", ping me pretty hard. Normally, when someone looks at a post I made and chooses to ignore all of it except one part, they just do so without the snarky comment included. This generally results in them getting pushed more about the part they ignored by myself, and anyone else who was interested in the point(s) I raised.In post 526, Sakura Hana wrote:
And so what im doing in this game was born.In post 2488, Sakura Hana wrote:I'm definitely not repeating that day 1 again.
I see deliberately calling out the fact that she ignored the rest of the post as an attempt to preempt said pushing. I was debating whether to ask if that bit of flavor in Sakuras post was characteristic of her posting style, or if it had a good chance of being preemptive scum deflection, but this last post seems to support my position . Here Sakura is again, preempting questioning about her reason for playing the way she is, by posting a link and a joke. She already said it was because of a game in the past, nobody asked for a link to the game or anything, but here she is ready to justify what she's doing before the conversation gets too deep into whether her behavior is anti-town or not.
There's even a theoetical chance they are trying to convince themselves of Sakura being scum.
It's just so anti-characteristic of Cerb when I ususally get hemms and haws no matter how hard I plead.
UFO just tends to chase strawmen so less worrying from him.
pedit: If you're not ignoring me, then stop repeatedly lying and saying that I never considered scum faction strongmen/roleblockers/empowered abilities, because I EXPLICITLY considered all three of those things, in two separate posts, and honestly, that's the STRONGEST part of the reason you've given for expressing any suspicion, and it's completely wrong.
Yep, last part was to Titus, sorry! K, got it, that is...more reasonable.
@Titus: ALSO GOOD JOB MOVING THOSE GOAL POSTS FROM DIDN'T CONSIDER THOSE THINGS TO DIDN'T ASSUME THEY WOULD RESULT IN THE DEATH OF PEOPLE WHO WOULD OTHERWISE BE BP.
...GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
I don't think scumtus finds the things I'm noting about Sakura threatening enough to move to protect her if they were teammates. If Titus is scum, this is weak protection being offered up for a known town flip, and not protection of a buddy...and I'm not sure how often Titus would actually do this as scum at this point, so it's super weak cause to be suspicious of her.In post 579, Toranaga wrote:
@titus point to me where have I jumped to the scum conclusion, cause I missed that part. or did you just respond to us both, whiteknighting sakura without reading my post fully?In post 547, Titus wrote:
I find you both are acting arrogant and fail to understand relevance. Everyone, even me, selectively responds. Why and to what reveal alignment. By jumping to the scum conclusion, it's not hunting but a straw man. For d1 it might get something to start the game but nothing to get mighty over. Sakura probably town.In post 538, Toranaga wrote:
I love that sakura is being pushed for this and find your reasoning extremely villagery from you, and I was villa reading your posting before anyway so this is cool. I don't know if I agree with this, though. I don't think sakura is necessarily doing what she is doing as an excuse to not work on the game, but rather because she is the kind of individualistic millennial generation type of player. I'm sure she'll start posting reads as the game progresses regardless of her rand.In post 532, Cerberus v666 wrote:
Okay. So this, along with the "deliberately ignoring thing", ping me pretty hard. Normally, when someone looks at a post I made and chooses to ignore all of it except one part, they just do so without the snarky comment included. This generally results in them getting pushed more about the part they ignored by myself, and anyone else who was interested in the point(s) I raised.In post 526, Sakura Hana wrote:
And so what im doing in this game was born.In post 2488, Sakura Hana wrote:I'm definitely not repeating that day 1 again.
I see deliberately calling out the fact that she ignored the rest of the post as an attempt to preempt said pushing. I was debating whether to ask if that bit of flavor in Sakuras post was characteristic of her posting style, or if it had a good chance of being preemptive scum deflection, but this last post seems to support my position . Here Sakura is again, preempting questioning about her reason for playing the way she is, by posting a link and a joke. She already said it was because of a game in the past, nobody asked for a link to the game or anything, but here she is ready to justify what she's doing before the conversation gets too deep into whether her behavior is anti-town or not.
what I said is that sakura's stance on not giving reads is not indicative of scum, and that I find cerberus' post about it villagery anyway. also that I like people pushing sakura about it, because it's unhelpful behaviour.
I find your whiteknight a little worrysome.GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
*nods* All noted. Something that is missing from my post was my internal thoughts that led to the post, which was mainly my knowledge that Titus is generally fairly protective of her scum teammates, which is why all of that is in the context of her protecting a teammate.In post 584, Toranaga wrote:
notice, cerberus, that I'm not making an associative read between titus and sakura. in fact, I find it more likely that sakura is town if titus is a wolf trying to defend her in this situation. but this is not what my read is about. I'm just concerned with 1) clearly not reading my posting, 2) drawing leans, even null-like leans from it wrt my alignment and 3) defending sakura from accusation I didn't participate in. I think that's all very lazy in a scummy way.In post 583, Cerberus v666 wrote:
I don't think scumtus finds the things I'm noting about Sakura threatening enough to move to protect her if they were teammates. If Titus is scum, this is weak protection being offered up for a known town flip, and not protection of a buddy...and I'm not sure how often Titus would actually do this as scum at this point, so it's super weak cause to be suspicious of her.GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
I find the investigative that is available to be nearly useless. It tells us if any actions were performed on the person, but not who performed the actions, therefore making it of very limited value...so no, I don't think it's something worth getting, and it functionally doesn't exist as far as I'm concerned.In post 594, Titus wrote:Also, Cerb I did not move the goalposts.
A good Cerb knows nightless isn't a setup town wins. A good Cerb realizes that his claim gives no invests. You're acting in your walls as if one did not exist. Mentioning something is not intellectual vigor.
It's just odd. A good Cerb knows there are serious flaws logically with you.
I actually don't know if nightless is a setup town wins or loses? I've only played in one(very unusual setup) nightless game, so that's a BoP you can't really place on me.
Titus, it's perspective. Toranaga's intentions and what they actually did don't particularly matter in this case. You're perceiving what they did as claiming to scum read Sakura, and are moving to protect Sakura, therefore you're white knighting. Your white knighting is uncalled for/unjustified given that Toranaga didn't actually say they were scumreading Sakura(and even explicitly said they did not think the point I brought up meant Sakura was scummy), but that doesn't mean you weren't attempting to white knight.In post 599, Titus wrote:Like I literally cannot whiteknight Sakura from your comments UFO if they are not shading her. It's definitional.GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
In post 620, Chickadee wrote:
I'm ok with that. I kind of expected to drown in this game, so I can't really fault anyone for scum reading me.In post 619, Toranaga wrote:
chickadee isn't that far behind after last post.In post 616, Toranaga wrote:I just ISO'd muffin and it's the wolfiest posting in this game by a large margin maybe.
You can do it Chickadee!Just read the game!GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
I don't actually care about not giving reads. I don't give reads early game. I care about not expressing the reasoning behind the reads when given.In post 626, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
My point was that Muffin refuses to give reads and no one cares or that’s how it seems anyway.In post 622, Toranaga wrote:
I'm not focusing on sakura at all. you should read my ISO in sequence so you understand how sakura became such a topic.In post 618, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
Because he also doesn’t want to give reads. I’m more concerned with players who give more questionable reads than ones who don’t but I just wonder why your focus is specifically on Sakura?
First, I townread her for voting muffin a couple days ago.
days later, I call her a special snowflake who doesn't feel like sharing her special reads. it was moody posting cause brazil just lost the WC, but also something that bothers me in games.
what followed that was a conversation with gamma about his read on sakura, followed by a conversation with cerberus in which I'm townreading his posting but disagreeing with his scumread on sakura.
then titus came along defending her, and I have a conversation with titus about her misreading and other things she did that I disliked.
I have then moved on to ISOing sakura, townreading her and asking for her townread on katsuki to be elaborated.
I'm not invested or focused on sakura. the thread just went that way. I think she is town and want her invested in the game, that's all.GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
-
Cerberus v666 Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Let's Be Reasonable
- Posts: 5479
- Joined: November 14, 2014
Thank you for doing this. This list isn't in the order people shared the information is it?In post 791, Toranaga wrote:I went to check all the votes people claimed to see if I could draw anything from it.
first of all, I believe Frozen Angel was chosen by town motivated votes mostly. she was voted by 4 people: me, shiro, cerberus, and 1-9. I am townreading all of these players to different levels.
in second place came cerberus with 3 votes. nancy, randomidget and drixx. at the very least, I'm townreading nancy. I also think if scum wanted cerberus!scum to be the leader, neither cerberus nor any other scum player would vote FA.
scum votes look dispersed and not coordinated in any way. the only players outside of cerberus and FA to get more than one vote were kokichi and muffin. if we're to believe cerberus and FA are both town, scum votes were either distributed sparcingly or some of them ended up lying about who they voted.
I'm contemplating the idea that some scum players decided to vote people who were unlikely to be elected leader, or they coordinated in a manner that only one of them voted any particular scumbuddy.
player/chosen leader/reasoning given
1-9 - frozen angel -
bbmolla - katsuki -
brassherald - gamma emmerald - pretty cool dude
cerberus - frozen angel - more likely to be voted and pick him as well
chickadee - the worst - more likely to be voted
drixx - cerberus - self evident reasons
frozen angel - shiro - cause she robbed his chance to be leader in a different game
gamma - kokichi - wanted to give him power and see what he can do
hebichan - kokichi - cause she likes him
human - muffin - cause he lead town in a different game
katsuki - didn't claim
kokichi - sakura - cause she is the protagonist in the story
mylo - didn't claim
nancy - cerberus - most rational player
nicorobin - titus - highest potential to help town
randomidget - cerberus - no need for explanation
sakura - muffin - played a great game as town last time
sando - duckling -
shiro - frozen angel -
the worst - nancy drew
titus - drixx - gets more readable as leader
toranaga - frozen angel - she is awesome
muffin - mylo
TW: Mylo, Chickadee, sando(I think that's who he means by duckling)
Cerb: Drixx, Nancy, random
FA: SDPI(or 1-9), Cerb, Shiro, Toranaga
Kokichi: Gamma, hebichan,
Muffin: Human, Sakura
Katsuki: bbmolla
Gamma: brassherald
Sakura: kokichi
Titus: Nicorobin
ND39: TW
Drixx: Titus
Mylo: muffin
Katsuki, who did you vote for and why?
Do any of these votes look out of character for the individual who claimed to make it, either because of their reason, or because of your knowledge of their experience with the person in question?GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009