Labyrinth Mafia (Endgame)
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Yes, the removal point is all I was referring to. My point is that Taly was trying to get people to question lynching Creature.In post 4739, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:Okay, I understood everything except for mixing up piling with removal. My opinion on this is the same as what I posted previously.-
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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I went looking for one. Found this from a ccouple years ago: viewtopic.php?f=94&t=69019
The game is here: viewtopic.php?f=54&t=68901
I skimmed the chat and game but don't think it's very telling because of age. But either way, he hasn't done anything this game outside his capability as scum.-
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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He's also scum via behaviors. You disagree with my case?In post 4747, the worst wrote:Just gonna pop in and say Rando's meta is NAI here. he's scum with wisdom by gamestate, or town.-
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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You said Ank was "badtown" on D1. But more recently (like today or yesterday), you said she's a "crazy strong town player." The truth is neither: she's hit or miss, and this game she was miss. I'd like to know why you said she was "badtown" on D1, and then later said she was "crazy strong town." What changed?In post 4740, the worst wrote:can you show me like what part of my d1 posting is making you confused?
I'd also like to know why you townread Sajj on D1, why you refused to answer my question about her, why you said you were intentionally obscuring your read to do something, and what it was you were doing.-
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Last set of questions, the worst:
Why would you call me "scum with a town role PM" when you'd know that my reads have been very good this game? Like, if you assume I'm town and Wisdom/Random are scum, you'd have to admit that I had the best reads in this game (defended against both mislynches, called Creature/Random on D2, said Chick was plausible partner with Random, and called Wisdom on D4).
You'd also know that I'm the reason that Nancy (confirmed town) is living all the way to LYLO, an extremely pro-town result. To me, it feels like you're being disingenuous about my what you think of my play, and that you're doing it to intensely buddy Nancy in preparation for LYLO between us three.
You said that players much better than me have used their bodyguard to sacrifice their lives for badtown. Can you give an example? If you just pull any example of a bodyguard, I'm lynching you. The example has to be from a player who is actually much better than me (they exist, but I doubt that you actually have seen them use bodyguard in the way you claim they have).
Why are you calling me toxic when I haven't said anything worse than other players in this game (I can find posts from you with language just as insulting as mine, as well as posts from players like Wisdom, among others, all of which is quite strong)?
Why are you defending Nancy so strongly while ignoring all the times she's insulted me (while I don't personally hold it against her, Nancy used some very strong language towards me, so it's odd that you call me bad and toxic while pretending that she's 100% innocent of anything)?
(Nancy, don't take this offensively, I'm asking some questions about what happened earlier because I'm concerned that the worst is manipulating the situation to buddy you and secure my mislynch).-
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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If we mislynch today, I'll be on you. The problem is that scum won't kill you because they want to mislynch me.In post 4758, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:That isn’t possible if I am the NK and you save me, is it?
That’s why I voted Wisdom but if there are two scum in the game, who do you think they are?
The fact that I didn't hammer Wisdom or the worst tells you that I'm not partnered with either. So you're free to vote Wisdom without risk. From your perspective, it's the right move at this point.
Unlike you, I don't have the luxury of mislynching today. You want to mislynch me. the worst wants to mislynch me. Random wants to mislynch me. So from my perspective, if Wisdom's not scum, I need to make that call today or town's going to lose.
I'm playing today as if it's 3-way LYLO between myself, the worst, and Wisdom, because from my point of view, that's what this game turns on.-
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Again, I'll be on you. When neither of us die, are you going to finally realize I'm town or mislynch me? My guess is you're going to mislynch me. I don't trust you to make the right call, especially not after you mislynched Sajj. So I need to make sure I choose right today.In post 4775, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
Well, if you prove them wrong by saving me from the NK, then they can’t obviously.In post 4772, Shoshin wrote:I don't want to insult you, Nancy. But you're assuming scum will kill you when their #1 goal is actually leaving me alive, not killing you.-
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Wisdom thought I was scum yet agreed with my points. I don't see your belief about my alignment has to do with evaluating Sajj's alignment or the points I'm bringing up.In post 4761, the worst wrote:
I mean I really wasn't townreading you at that point so your posting didn't have a major impact on me :\In post 4750, Shoshin wrote:@the worst
I'd also like to know why you voted Sajj after I pointed out exactly why she was town. Like, what's going through your head there?
that phase ended a lot sooner than I would have liked it to. there were a few things about Sajj that weren't really stacking up as scum and by the time I came around on it it was too late.
this shit happens.
Compared with Wisdom, this is a real problem for me. I also don't like that you're not being forthcoming to the questions I'm asking.-
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Assume for a moment that the worst is solo scum.In post 4767, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:Why would the worst gladiate to save you if he wanted to mislynch you.
He's presented with the option of mislynching me today, having me flip town, and then having to deal with Wisdom and Random at LYLO. Wisdom and Random both said they'd lynch the worst if I flip town. Thus, mislynching me today loses solo scum the worst the game.
However, if the worst uses his role to gladiate Wisdom, he delays my mislynch until tomorrow while forcing you to mislynch Wisdom. This means that rather than having to convince you tomorrow that he's town, he can argue that you should lynch Wisdom today not because Wisdom is scum but because he wants you to rule out Wisdom/Random, and then mislynch me tomorrow. This is how solo scum the worst wins the game.
There's a risk to solo scum the worst's play: I successfully bodyguard the nightkill. But that still puts him the same situation he would have been in if he had just mislynched me today (i.e. LYLO in a situation where I've flipped town already). In other words, it's a minimal risk compared with mislynching me straight away.
There's also the risk that you lynch him today, but if you were going to do that today, then you definitely would have done it tomorrow after I flipped town. So either way, the worst made the correct play if he's solo scum. It was by far the best play he could have made if he's scum here.-
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Yeah, of course. You know I'm not partnered with Wisdom or I already would have hammered the worst. You also know I'm not partnered with the worst or I would have hammered Wisdom.In post 4783, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
If Wisdom flips red, I’m obviously lynching random.In post 4777, Shoshin wrote:
Again, I'll be on you. When neither of us die, are you going to finally realize I'm town or mislynch me? My guess is you're going to mislynch me. I don't trust you to make the right call, especially not after you mislynched Sajj. So I need to make sure I choose right today.In post 4775, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
Well, if you prove them wrong by saving me from the NK, then they can’t obviously.In post 4772, Shoshin wrote:I don't want to insult you, Nancy. But you're assuming scum will kill you when their #1 goal is actually leaving me alive, not killing you.-
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Yes, I understand that. The problem is that you're going to mislynch me tomorrow. Am I wrong about that?In post 4779, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
Don’t you get it that if the worst is solo scum, we risk nothing by lynching Wisdom but if Wisdom/random are w/w and you hammer on the worst, we lose the game?In post 4773, Shoshin wrote:the worst is not partnered with Wisdom or Random or me. That's been established at this point.
The only question left to decide is whether it's Wisdom/Random or solo the worst.-
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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This answer is bullshit.In post 4784, the worst wrote:
Shoshin I think the answer to your question is in here ^^In post 4761, the worst wrote:
I mean I really wasn't townreading you at that point so your posting didn't have a major impact on me :\In post 4750, Shoshin wrote:@the worst
I'd also like to know why you voted Sajj after I pointed out exactly why she was town. Like, what's going through your head there?
that phase ended a lot sooner than I would have liked it to. there were a few things about Sajj that weren't really stacking up as scum and by the time I came around on it it was too late.
this shit happens.
I didn't have the time to sort Sajj I would have liked before the hammer. What else do you want from me here? if I haven't addressed anything wrt Sajj let me know.
You voted her. Then you unvoted. And then you voted again the moment Nancy appeared stating that she thought Sajj was scum. You had time, enough to reconsider your vote, and then enough to place your vote back on Sajj when Nancy showed up.-
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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In post 3667, the worst wrote:why did you claim novice vig? we're like obligated to lynch you for fakeclaimingIn post 3673, the worst wrote:feels good lynching CShep's #1 scumread tbhIn post 3676, the worst wrote:
^ scum mocking me for townreading her d1In post 3675, Scioness Sajj wrote:
now tell me you have been scumreading me all this timeIn post 3673, the worst wrote:feels good lynching CShep's #1 scumread tbhIn post 3677, the worst wrote:Huh I didn't expect it to be this easyIn post 3678, the worst wrote:while you're at it was this meant for the scum pt?
the commander was curiousIn post 3825, the worst wrote:your whole defence is just WIFOM - eaay to fake as scum.In post 3836, the worst wrote:why are you locktown on randoIn post 3845, the worst wrote:In post 3843, Scioness Sajj wrote:what motivation do you think i had for lying about being 1 shot
you suddenly pulled some bullshit about tryna eat the nk within 24 hours from backing up your awkward soft. TBH I figured some scumbuddy fed you the "trying to eat the nk" story. xDIn post 3844, Scioness Sajj wrote:it's day 5, it is time for you to start explaining what you think and why you do what you do.
UNVOTE: I'll be sensible when I'm sober xoxox
sorry Wizzy ILY I was hoping Sajj or wheme would go full stupidIn post 3848, the worst wrote:if you actually think there's a reason I should see you as town spew it rnIn post 3850, the worst wrote:yeah ok that's just desperateIn post 3852, the worst wrote:I could have provides you reads at any point in this entire game and I think my trajectory on every slot is transparent af
but guess what?
you haven't thrown me a question
In post 3857, the worst wrote:Sajj is either scumclaiming or stupid claiming and I don't think she's stupidIn post 4008, the worst wrote:
every playerIn post 4005, Shoshin wrote:I'm certain that scum are among Random, Wisdom, Wheme, and the worst.
except the conftown
and Sajj
why are you locktown on Sajj I don't understandIn post 4014, the worst wrote:can we lynch Shosh? that'd be like 100000 Christmases but Sajj is scum before her
@the worstIn post 4017, the worst wrote:hold on scum redirected Nancy to Sajj? I thought she targeted Sajj...
Why'd you ignore my reasoning as to why Sajj was town?-
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Why'd you disagree with points that very clearly showed why Sajj was town?In post 4019, the worst wrote: All of your 4 points just....... sound like things scum could easily do and I disagree that her play got townier-
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Like, the worst, I don't understand how you can call my play bad when you're the one mislynching Sajj despite me basically telling you why exactly she's town. That's why to me it looks like you went with the mislynch on Sajj because you needed it to win, and now you're just buddying Nancy by saying I'm bad and toxic instead of being genuine at all. There's no way you think those things about me when I nearly stopped a mislynch that could have made this game 100x easier to win for town.-
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Why does solo scum try to mislynch me? Because scum wins by mislynching.In post 4798, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:No, because I’m not convinced you are Scum anymore. Scum!Shoshin wouldn’t have tried to stop Sajj mislynch, especially since she was scumreading you at the time. But why does solo scum try to mislynch you? If the worst isn’t partnetrd with random, then why should he not lynch random over you?
If the worst is solo scum, it's a lot easier to mislynch me than Wisdom or Random. Like, think about it. Who would solo scum want around in 3-way LYLO? Me. I'm the easiest player to mislynch in this group of players.-
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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You've changed your tune a lot. When you first gladiated Wisdom, you were saying I was probably scum but you just wanted to rule out the possibility of Wisdom/Random. What changed?In post 4800, the worst wrote:@Nancy I'd be surprised if Shoshin were scum here too but it's still absolutely possible. it's just a conversation that's better had later.-
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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In post 4749, Shoshin wrote:
You said Ank was "badtown" on D1. But more recently (like today or yesterday), you said she's a "crazy strong town player." The truth is neither: she's hit or miss, and this game she was miss. I'd like to know why you said she was "badtown" on D1, and then later said she was "crazy strong town." What changed?In post 4740, the worst wrote:can you show me like what part of my d1 posting is making you confused?
I'd also like to know why you townread Sajj on D1, why you refused to answer my question about her, why you said you were intentionally obscuring your read to do something, and what it was you were doing.
My questions.In post 4751, Shoshin wrote:Last set of questions, the worst:
Why would you call me "scum with a town role PM" when you'd know that my reads have been very good this game? Like, if you assume I'm town and Wisdom/Random are scum, you'd have to admit that I had the best reads in this game (defended against both mislynches, called Creature/Random on D2, said Chick was plausible partner with Random, and called Wisdom on D4).
You'd also know that I'm the reason that Nancy (confirmed town) is living all the way to LYLO, an extremely pro-town result. To me, it feels like you're being disingenuous about my what you think of my play, and that you're doing it to intensely buddy Nancy in preparation for LYLO between us three.
You said that players much better than me have used their bodyguard to sacrifice their lives for badtown. Can you give an example? If you just pull any example of a bodyguard, I'm lynching you. The example has to be from a player who is actually much better than me (they exist, but I doubt that you actually have seen them use bodyguard in the way you claim they have).
Why are you calling me toxic when I haven't said anything worse than other players in this game (I can find posts from you with language just as insulting as mine, as well as posts from players like Wisdom, among others, all of which is quite strong)?
Why are you defending Nancy so strongly while ignoring all the times she's insulted me (while I don't personally hold it against her, Nancy used some very strong language towards me, so it's odd that you call me bad and toxic while pretending that she's 100% innocent of anything)?
(Nancy, don't take this offensively, I'm asking some questions about what happened earlier because I'm concerned that the worst is manipulating the situation to buddy you and secure my mislynch).
I thought your early read on Sajj was bullshit. I called you on it on D1. I thought your refusal to answer felt like scum who said she was town without actually having a reason to think it (despite others have said, I think scum do this more often than town).
I also think all your criticisms of my play/personality were disingenuous (like, how can you say I'm bad or "scum with a town role PM" when I'm the one person who fought tooth and nail to save Sajj), so I'm concerned those criticisms were made as part of a scum agenda to buddy Nancy in preparation for LYLO. If you genuinely believe those things, I'd like to see what the thought process is so that I can see if it's genuine or part of a scum agenda.
That is why these things are relevant to your alignment, regardless of the fact that you think they're not.-
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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I'm worried you're buddying Nancy, not me. I'd appreciate if you clear up my concerns, that's all. In normal circumstances, I'd have voted Wisdom already, but this isn't a normal circumstance where I can trust Nancy tomorrow (again, no offense Nancy, but our relationship is not in a place where I feel comfortable with the risk of making the wrong call today).In post 4814, the worst wrote:if Shoshin thinks I'm wking her holy fuck-
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Are you kidding me? The read trajectory was pretty clear. And it was AI in this case, because preventing Sajj mislynch guarantees that town win this game 9 times out of 10. Like, how could town possibly lose this with Sajj clear yesterday? Explain that to me.In post 4823, the worst wrote:defending a mislynch is never AI lol, if anything your lack of read trajectory in her is sliiiightly gross-
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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the worst has seen me townread players who aggressively attack me and scumread me, so I really don't like that he's taking that approach here. I'd really appreciate if you just calmly replied to my questions because I think they're legitimate questions and I think it's legitimate for me to treat today like LYLO between myself, Wisdom, and the worst.-
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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I don't buy that you think I'm "bad" at gamestate analysis.In post 4592, the worst wrote:
do I trust Shoshin to be shamelessly bad?In post 4590, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
Are you serious? Do you honestly believe she is that clueless about the gamestate?In post 4582, the worst wrote:I'm pretty sure she'd say that as either town or scum tho
lol. yes. more than I trust myself to be a duckling.
Like, you mislynched Sajj while I defended her... but I'm "bad" because I protected Nancy, the confirmed townie?
And then you've called me "toxic" a few times. Like, how? What have I done that is "toxic" compared with anyone else in this game?
Explain how calling me "bad" and "toxic" wasn't just an attempt to pocket Nancy. If you actually believe it, that's fine, but there has to be a reasonable basis for that belief.-
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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the worst, you thinking this is TvT doesn't change how I feel about it, which is that it's one townie (me) trying to figure out another player's alignment (you) who I'm uncertain about (i.e. could be town, could be scum). Like, this is how the game of mafia works, and it's never a waste of time to help someone read you, especially when the game could turn on that.
Wisdom, why are you suddenly townreading me? Didn't you think I was solo scum earlier?-
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Why'd you say it's just me earlier?In post 4128, Wisdom wrote:nancy, its shoshin and tw
Unless its only one scum left, in which case it's just shoshin-
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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This is also a massive shift in thinking from earlier. What changed on this front?In post 4856, Wisdom wrote:if tw flips town I think ill probably vote random over shoshin-
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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To be fair, I feel like this is what you were doing to me earlier.In post 4877, Wisdom wrote:yeah youre not town
youre taking everything im saying and assigning them scum motivation-
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Alright, time to vote.
It's going to be on Wisdom. My gut is saying I should go with the worst, but my brain is saying otherwise.
I'm sorry if wrong, Wisdom. I'm voting you because of your association with Random (he's been my top scumread and I can't discount the possibility that you're partners), and because I'm struggling to believe you suddenly change your mind about scum neighbors now that I'm the one making the decision between you and the worst. I'd believe you saying the worst is scummier than me, but not Random, not after how much weight you've been giving his role all game. Like, your internal logic all game has been to give his role more weight than any behavioral evidence... except when you suddenly need me to vote the worst to survive? You stretched too far there.
Any last words?-
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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I think Random has been by far the scummiest player in this game when it comes to behaviors/associations.
I think the worst hasn't been nearly as towny as people say he is when town. And I question whether there's any thought process behind half the things he says, which makes me question whether he's actually town.
Do you lynch the scummiest player or the player who you expected to be more towny as town? I don't know.-
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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the worst has been very scummy today and yesterday. His progression on Sajj makes no sense, and I feel like everything he did today was very much geared towards pocketing you in a way that didn't feel genuine at all. Even if he's town, I don't think it's genuine (no offense).
I don't know about characters. Like, it's just too much speculation.-
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Chick says this on D3. Then on D4, she says Random is scummy but there's better lynches, and she votes me.In post 1912, Chickadee wrote:Random is most likely scum for the creature thing
I'm the one pointing out that Random is scum because of his interactions with Creature.
So, you have Chick saying that Random is scum because of things I've said, but then voting me.
We could probably lynch Random for that alone. When you add in the stuff from D1 and D2 regarding Creature, as well as his unnatural hostility towards Nico, plus lurking the game out and overall apathy, mislynching Angel and Sajj, and generally doing nothing towny, I'd say it's hard to make any sort of case that Random is town.-
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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