Limbo l Victory!
-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
If the Toxic Goo thinks they can obv-town enough to draw the night-kill, it might be worth it for them to stay hidden even with the possibility of watcher -- obviously that'd be something they'd have to decide on their own terms. Otherwise it would probably make more sense for them to claim as they're more likely to draw town PRs, though it also helps mafia a lot in terms of who not to night-kill.
I have no clue why it'd possibly be a good idea for VT to claim.-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
Joey is my strongest town read. Setup spec is easy to do as scum, but the way he did it (interacting with everyone, bouncing ideas around) was pretty towny. His regular activity and his aggression against Maria also suggests town.
I don't like Maria's vote or her reasons for scum-reading Joey, but post 83 is gold. Also don't think her ascetic claim is scum motivated.-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
Considering we've already spent two pages discussing the topic at the time of this post this question didn't seem necessary, particularly the "Toxic Goo" part.In post 52, ManateeDude wrote:why would VT or Toxic Goo claim?
Pops back in to drop essentially a naked vote on the leading wagon. Seems pretty opportunistic.
-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
First impression of Dunn was that his "toxic goo and VT should claim" entrance would be pretty forward coming from scum. I thought his Maria vote was fine but his later "Maria's claim is convenient" post and later backtracking was less so. Still could see Dunn being town here, but both of Manetee's posts are drenched in scum.
VOTE: ManateeDude-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
I'm not going to vote someone who hasn't even posted in the game. Literally the only indication that his flip has a >rand chance of being scum is the notion that "his scum meta is obvious", but unless his scum meta is to not even post at all that doesn't mean anything. More than likely he just flaked out / over-gamed / straight out forgot about this game, which is NAI at best.-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
Just flipped through a few Creature scum games and holy moly does he play an obvious scum.
Still don't see a point in voting him before he follows through with his prod / is replaced. If he is scum it'd probably be obvious by the end of D1 anyways. I just think its a shot in the dark rn even considering his scum meta.-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
Ffs, Almost. I never said Creature was scum. I said he was obvious scum in context to the scum games I've looked at from him. How are you so convinced he's scum when he hasn't even posted yet? How are you so sure the only reason he wouldn't have posted by now is because he's scum? There's no reason to lynch him before he's even posted, and the fact that you think me pushing against this is proof I'm 100% scum with him is laughably bad.-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
Not really a fan of assessing players based on their activity elsewhere. Honestly I think it does increase the possibility of scum!Creature slightly, but I'd much rather assess him on his actual posts. Still bothered by the assertion that me not voting Creature right after Elsa suggested it == I'd be scum with him if he flips red.-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
Is this implying that you think Creature's town, or am I missing something here?In post 139, Chara wrote:also Almost shading you as Creature's partner will never matter unless Creature flips scum. so you should be fine! <3
Also, was you jumping off of Dunnstral's wagon related to Dunn himself or did you just feel like wagoning Creature (i.e. has your opinion on Dunn changed at all)?-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
In post 182, Snowman wrote:@Creature, what do your scumreads look like rn?-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
Basically my reaction to Creature's entrance. For being the highest poster I didn't get that strong of an impression from him.In post 200, Creature wrote:still, don't think townreading plenty of players is that town indicative.-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
@Chara, I thought Manatee's opening question was useless since people already voiced their opinions on why Toxic Good should claim. It seemed more likely to come from scum pretending to contribute than from town not paying attention to the thread or something. Thought the vote was pretty bad too. It wasn't that I assumed Dunn was town persay, it was more assuming Manatee was scum and that he generally wouldn't want to vote his own partner. Don't like to rely on pre-flip associations to construct my reads in general though.-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
@Maria, it's not just his reaction though. It's also his general engagement with the game and game-solving that screams town. I also can't really see why he'd want to consider the possibility of town!you even after all that. I've been reading through the you VS Joey debate as objectively as possible and honestly I find myself siding with him most of the time. Like, when you first explained your Joey scum-read you said that you don't remember him caring about mech-talk but when he corrected you, you pretty much dropped the point all-together. Then you tried to spin him saying "even if I was objectively scummy" into him admitting he was being objectively scummy when that's completely wrong on a purely grammatical sense, and when he corrected you on that you changed the subject all-together. I might be biased in town-reading since I never read his scum games before and don't know what his scum range looks like, but I think you might be biased from seeing him play scum and are being overly paranoid when Joey's ISO spews town overall.-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
The thing though is that you dropping it made it seem like you didn't have a rebuttal to it at all, and I don't think that helped your case very much.In post 247, MariaR wrote: He didn't really correct me because he's incorrect. He doesn't talk like that as town I've seen him do it as scum. I dropped it because I knew he would say "no you're wrong" it'd be a pointless back and forth to keep going over the same thing over and over. He has done it as scum period. Has he done it as town? Maybe I don't remember it but I know he's done it as scum.
I think your personal interpretation of it was a stretch, but regardless a simple acknowledgement of it (i.e. "oh, I see how you meant X") would've been better than dodging it all together.In post 247, MariaR wrote: I saw it one way and he corrected me on what he was saying. What more is there to talk about on that subject? Nothing really
I'm going to take your word and assume nothing he's done so far is technically outside his scum-range -- I just don't think he's scum for the reasons you're pushing. The only point I can sort of see is that he apparently doesn't talk about mechs much as town, but most of the playerlist talked about mechs early on so I don't consider it that strong of a tell. I'd like to look into it a bit for myself, though. Are there any notable scum games of his you can link -- especially w/ regards to mechanics? It'll give me a better idea of where you're coming from. I'd also like to know if there's anything he's done that's outside his town range unrelated to mech talk.In post 247, MariaR wrote:Correct you've never seen Joey scum so you don't have an informed opinion like I do. I've seen both town and scum Joey and it's pretty easy at least with my meta to tell what he is if he does the same old tells (although I may have messed up that opportunity ) his scum range is pretty big and I'm saying don't townread him so easily because he can do this as scum. It's not paranoia it's just fact. The only player here I would say I have paranoia about is Chara because I got outright fooled by them.-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
Agree in terms of the general frustration with Manatee, but calling someone out on prod dodging while prod dodging yourself isn't much better.In post 274, Lady Angel wrote:
sigh...In post 255, ManateeDude wrote:
whatIn post 232, Snowman wrote:Mostly waiting for Manatee to pop back into the thread.
got anything else to add?-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
In post 308, Joey_ wrote: Why don’t you answer to questions asked directly to you totodile-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
What does this even mean?In post 304, ManateeDude wrote:Theres at least 1 wolf on my wagon, town takes more time to think through a post and the alignment which cannot be done with a what post.
Elaborate on this.In post 311, ManateeDude wrote:Idk A50 overemphasizing feels towny-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
Don't really think Almost voting you two separate times is an overpush.In post 321, ManateeDude wrote: I feel as if scum doesn't feel the need to overpush their reads, it seems kind of awkward-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
Gamma isn't in this game?In post 329, Carcalilly wrote:gamma stop taking more games when ur gonna prodge this 1
Also, talk to me about this spirit animal of yours.-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
Are you ever going to respond to this?
-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
@Chara, can you link the Purr game you're talking about?
Is post #39 what you meant when you referred to Purr's aggressive opening? Thought it was more of a joke overall and can't really see how it would imply you and Dunn are scum this game, unless there was another post you meant. Agreed though that boasting about her past performance was pretty petty.-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
And I don't think Manatee's lynchbait. The lynchbait I've seen are scummy on the surface but hide good reads/contributions beneath that coat, and I don't get that impression from him. If he is lynchbait he's doing a pretty bad job at it and/or prioritizing being "lynchbait" over participating meaningfully.-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
What reads btw?
I liked this post from Angel since it went along the same lines I was thinking, but otherwise there's a lot of yuck in her ISO too.In post 319, Lady Angel wrote: I'm more annoyed that for the most part he's offered even less than the rest of the prod dodgers.-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
I could see the Almost read coming from either alignment. I don't find the Dunn sr that towny since a lot of people were already calling him scum and it seemed he was just jumping on that bandwagon. The Nos read would be a bit weird coming from scum, but that's about it for me.In post 358, Chara wrote:Manatee's townreading Almost and Nos and presumably scumreading Dunnstral.
i don't like that post from Lady because she's one of those prod dodgers that hasn't offered anything, so it doesn't really ring genuine to me.
With the Lady post it depends on how self aware of her activity she is. Sometimes it's just the case where you forget to consider your own actions when making reads (i.e. "X seems scummy, but I did X too so maybe they did X for the same reasons I did"). I don't think this as strongly as I once did though since I remembered she was pretty self aware about how limp her reads were.-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
He hasn't said too much about any of his reads. The Almost read is the most fleshed out, but it feels like he's just rephrasing his initial read. I'm not getting the depth I was hoping for.In post 364, Carcalilly wrote:
It's more like the reads aren't organized; they seem pretty full and concise to me.In post 341, Snowman wrote:Not feeling town!Manatee. Don't like anything he's posted so far, and his reads feel underdeveloped. His lack of activity doesn't bode well with me either.-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
In post 123, Elsa Jay wrote:We have 20 damn hours and I'm not feeling the Dunn and Mana wagons. So we get rid of the slot that'll fuck us later.
What changed between these two posts?
-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
Also, this. It'd be nice to get some more content from you than just prod dodges.
-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
But how specifically is that scummy? What would be Elsa's scu motive for doing something so surface-level scummy? I get there's use in a "too scummy to be scum" play-style, but I'm not seeing how you genuinely saw her dice-roll vote scummy enough to warrant a vote. Could you link the games with the RNG-based deathtunnels?In post 436, Lady Angel wrote: It's completely out of the blue and RNG-based, for one.
For one, Elsa didn't "sheep" on Creature -- she started the wagon. Can you elaborate on what you mean by "a misunderstanding of time"? Not really sure what you mean by that or why you found it scummy. You also said you liked the case on Creature, which makes it weird that you're scum-reading Elsa now since she was the one who created it.In post 436, Lady Angel wrote: I don't like her whole "I want to be suspicious" thing, or how willing she was to sheep on Creature with a misunderstanding of time.-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
Explain to me what you're town-reading Lady for. Just telling people to unvote w/o any reasoning isn't particularly convincing.In post 477, Carcalilly wrote:y'all need to Unvote that ^-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
I'm tr-ing Elsa overall. I thought the Creature push was reachy, but I could see why she'd be motivated to push that given her misconception of the length of the deadline, and as scum I feel she'd be more content to allow a no-lynch if she really was mistaken about the deadline. I was irked off by her refusal to participate in the game overall -- it's one thing to lurk on purpose but flat out refuse to give reads was off-putting -- but I did like her contribution in post 440 as it aligns a lot with my reads, even if I didn't reach them the same way she did. In any case I think the Elsa wagon is awful and I don't see why players are scum-reading her over Lady in particular.-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
This vote is also pretty bad and is just regurgitating what people have already said about Elsa. Also noteworthy that this is the second time he's been the L-4 vote on a wagon.In post 471, ManateeDude wrote:VOTE: Elsa Jay
1. people are voting her
2. the trying on a new lurker meta is just weird..-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
I'm not satisfied by Lady's answers. The whole "played in games where people have based deathtunnels by RNGing a target" thing could potentially explain her overreaction to Elsa's dice vote, but I wanted to see the games for myself to see if its comparable, though when I asked her about this among other things she just flat out ignored me. Half of her Elsa read doesn't make any sense, and I don't like the transition from her liking the case on Creature -> attacking Elsa for pushing on Creature.-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
There's two main things concerning me right now:In post 489, Lady Angel wrote: It wasn't on this site, and several years old. I'm not gonna be able to find them.
what else did you ask me?
1)Explain what you meant by Elsa "sheeping on Creature with a misunderstanding of time" and how you thought that was scummy.
2)Explain how you went from initially liking the case on Creature to now scum-reading Elsa for her push on Creature.-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
How is Elsa scummier than LA? And if you think Elsa is scummier than LA then why aren't you voting for Elsa right now?
-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole
*Page 17. And yes it was pretty bad. There's no obvious scum motive for voting based on a dice roll, and there's a good chance Elsa wasn't even that serious about it. It only seems scummy on the surface level because "look she's voting someone for no reason, look how scummy that is!", but really Lady shouldn't be jumping to the conclusion that's it's obviously scummy so soon, especially since she's apparently not as new as I thought she was given her last post. And it's especially bad given that before her vote she was pretty much just prod dodging and not contributing much at all.In post 500, Carcalilly wrote: Okay, but was it really that much of an overreaction? A page 20 RVS is far from the worst reason to vote for alone.-
-
Snowman Goon
-
-
Snowman Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 114
- Joined: October 31, 2018
- Location: North Pole