Starcraft Mafia -- Game Over!

[skitter30]

I mean, Nancy's gonna be so pissed off, and I would expect you to be annoyed too, so 2 birds with one stone.

Why does so much of your game seem to involve trying to annoy me?

Can u clarify wherher that was or wasnt a real claim/crumb/whatever?

[skitter30]

v/la for a couple of days

[skitter30]

i'll catch up better later today, sorry

i'm pointing out that mew is coasting again - he's not doing anything or pushing anyone

i'm really baffled by the fact that i can't get more than like three votes on him at the time given that there's at most like ... two people kinda townreading him

there's really no planet where all three of the wagons at eod yesterday (not_mafia/kokichi/mew) were all on town and end up on not-mafia. i get we're passing on kokichi today i guess but i don't understand why we aren't pushing mew more

i also think it's *incredibly* sketchy that kokichi was pushing for his lynch yesterday when the wagon had some momentum and that he was repeatedly calling for his lynch but won't talk about his read on him today or vote him

[skitter30]

Mew seems to only participate when pushed but I found the participation less sketchy than kokichi at the time so I lost focus there

I'm not against pushing there but it was sort of a one at a time deal and it wasn't his time in the barrel yet until I felt like I had gotten more out of Keyser or xtoxm today. That's

my

reasoning for it at least.

My arms are all wobbly and my hands are shaking after a very deep dental anaesthesia injection for some reason and I don't know if I'll be able to post again today because wtf is happening yo i can't move my fingers accurately

gosh, i hope you feel better

this day feels incredibly similar to the first day of american presidents wherein i spent like the whole day trying to get mom lynched but there was a ridiculous amount of resistance for no good reason and people lol-lynched gamma instead

[skitter30]

uh i've been trying to get people to articulate reads on you for several days irl days now, and i keep wheeling discussion back towards you because i don't get why nobody else is willing to vote you despite the fact that like only two people are townreading you. i only have the one vote and i can't exactly make a wagon on my own here.

i've been v/la since sunday night (i posted again within prod range even?); i'ts not like i've been gone for days and days or that i havne't posted anything day2; i don't think it's entirely fair to use being v/la for like a day and a half against me. i mean, yeah, i usually tend to be more forceful but like .... i'm on v/la? but when i am here i think i'm doing things

idk what 'comments towards me/kokichi that have any sense of personal flair or individuality within them' means

i'm fairly decent at reading gamestates and i would be *shocked* if all three of you/kokcihi/not_mafia were town. wagons just don't end up on town!not_mafia at eod when all three of you are town. and yes, i'm incorporating not_mafia's flip? that's how this game works? not sure why you're raising that as a point against me. and yes i'm still pushing you beause i think you're scummy? i'm not going to just drop it just because i can't seem to get votes on you rn

tw/nauci/irrel and their pushes on you when you first repped in don't really don't have much to do with this rn tbh

i'm not waiting for anyone to 'pull the plunge' for me - i'm trying to get you lynched

i also don't think it's right to characterize me as 'afraid' to make a push of my own - as far as i can tell, that's what i'm doing right now

[skitter30]

Your reasons for scumreading me are convoluted and is literally just {Kokichi, Mew} are scum with absolutely no variation.

* it feels like you pop in when other people push you
* not really pushing anything (till me, till now); very little scumhunting
* gamestate (eod1 wagons + no support for a mew wagon today despite very few townreads)
* you just have like no scumreads?

==

It is relevant because that's where scumreads on me started; with limited information, and as new information has revealed itself, somehow you're managing to associate that information with me specifically and then wondering why no one else is hopping on?

i mean those pushes on you aren't why i'm scumreading you? like i havne't even thought about them since then till like ... right now

i think that the competing wagons at the end of day1, coupled with the not_mafia townflip, is compelling new information relevant to your alignment.

i dont't think all three eod wagons were on town; i have a hard time seeing scum settle for a day1 not_mafia flip when they could have pushed towards town!you or town!kokichi; not_mafia had a lot of momentum and i'm trying to figure out why

the reason i think it's incriminating for you and kokichi specfically is because you two were the competing wagons until kokichi claimed and the not_mafia wagon took off

i think that there's something fueling the fact that the not_mafia wagon had such momentumn, and my best guess is that a competing wagon was on scum

there's *very* few people townreading you, and yesterday you were a semi-viable eod wagon - it shouldn't be this hard to get another vote or two on you if you're town

==

Skitter has limited the competing wagons to Kokichi/Mew.

So yeah I'm going to scoff at that when he uses it as a reason to push me over anyone else that could have viably been counter lynched after an N_M claim.

a) i'm a she

b) i'm talking about the major wagons in the last day or so of day1; if you think i'm wrong by limiting this analysis to just you two, which other competing wagons should i be looking at? i'm not interested in the fact that any random wagon could have happened at some point - i'm looking at the wagons that started to form towards the end of the day and had some momentum but lost it eventually and/or didn't go through

[skitter30]

So you're lynching me over Performer again, because.. ???????

because i think you're scum?

and i don't scumread performer nearly as strongly

[skitter30]

i mean what kind of answer ought i to have given

i think it's pretty obvious i'm pushing you over performer because i think you're scummier than him

[skitter30]

That way, kill flavor of 'shooting' would fit for odd nights but kill flavor of 'killing' would fit for even nights with these factions alternating their kills.

huh, this could be a thing; i didn't even think of multiball. although the mod said

There will be a mafia faction, they will have daytalk.
There may be at least one third party role

which makes me think more singleball + 3p like sk or something

also that reminds me - i don't think performer is groupscum with daytalk - claiming 1sbp looks kinda bad given irrel's death and i feel like he prob would have been talked out of that?

but scum don't always use pts as much as i do when i'm scum so eh

could be sk tho
my gut says not groupscum tho

I'm not really sure? But either way if he shot Relly last night using his 1sbp for protection I'd be pretty shocked if he was so comfortable with claiming 1sbp today when there's no other explanation for Relly's death

i think *he* might, especially if he is anti-town, alone, and not responsible for relly's death

i don't think he's group-scum; optics of claiming that look bad

==

I think that's probably what your role is important for--you likely know if someone's flavor is terran, zerg, or protoss; which'll make sorting them out a little easier?
I dunno.

i think the op says anti-town has fake claims, including flavor

==

Skitter has also been hard to sort and even had no thoughts on Keys after 100+ pages, which is just unreal if town.

i don't feel like he's done much ai

i don't think i can read him that well to begin with so ngl i'm kinda hoping some combo of tw/nauci/shoshin can sort him for me so i'm kinda putting him on the backburner

Skitter has also been hard to sort and even had no thoughts on Keys after 100+ pages, which is just unreal if town.

It's not out of the ordinary for town skitter30

In American Presidents she wasn't sure of Keyser/Irrelephant/my alignment until I finally outed my Neapolitan green checks on the other 2

(this was like on day4 iirc)

==

so the groupscum kill last night was probably on Creature I guess..? does NKA get us anywhere here? I really can't think of anyone but I can feel my interest fading and I want to stop that

vig kill?

i guess i can kinda see irrel being the scum nk if they htought he was too town-block-y and they had the requisite resources to nk him without dying (could be they wanted to get rid of him before said doc/bp got lynched or killed so they just shot him last night)

no idea who kills creature last night tbh

==

Tbqh I'm wondering if my reasons for townreading Xtoxm d1 were more appropriately like "d1 pass" reasons rather than actual town indicators

Gonna go see if I can get back in my head then

i felt like they were day1 pass reasons
i never really townread him

also losing the mitillos townread

==

because had N_M decided to claim,

i mean i don't think this eventuality was particularly likely

==

VOTE: Mewtaph
I'm cool with this as what strikes me as a deliberate move away from Performer

i'm not sure what this means

==

ok guys i just had a really tinfoily idea that might be total bs but it makes sense in my head rn

varsoon said that the zerg mind control humans to do their bidding. what if the zerg is scum/sk and that is their ability, to control a terran player and have them perform the kill.
so a zerg mind controlled creature to kill irre and then creature got pgo'd

this strikes me as kinda townie but idk why

also creature was even-night; not sure if being controlled can change that? idk being controlled is not a mechanci that i'm familiar with

[skitter30]

i don't really object to a key wagon but i'd prefer mew

[skitter30]

Really important shit if I die tonight, but I'm sure you numbskulls will completely not listen to me:

Performer is very likely scum with that claim.
If Kokichi isn't confirmed as town, he is confirmed as scum.
Look really really close at what I've posted today. It'll serve as your roadmap to scum.
Don't let this be another TAZ.

again, i instinctively read the first letter of each line going down now

[skitter30]

The guys who I want dead: Mit, Koki & Mew, I wouldn’t bank on being a gamesolve, but I feel like there is scum in here.

...and Skitter is a town lean read I feel dirty about. They are actually a green read I would actually lynch today if that makes sense.

do tell

[skitter30]

i feel like i've cased him as much as i can already? i'm not sure what else you'd like me to explain

idk probably like ~85%

[skitter30]

Votecount 2.6

Performer

(4)

~

Xtoxm

(28),

Mitillos

(11),

Mewtaph

(26),

AlmostNancy

(200)

Mewtaph

(4)

~

skitter30

(33),

the worst

(104),

Performer

(35),

Nauci

(128)

Keyser Söze

(3)

~

Kokichi Oma

(39),

Shoshin

(59),

Varsoon

(55)


Not Voting (1):

Keyser Söze

(31)

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2018-12-23 13:57:08)

the vc as colored by my reads
i'll switch to keyser i guess but the performer wagon is quite awful

[skitter30]

Not yet - I know there is a third party who can’t win with town.

i mean i guess that explains why you're 3p hunting, or why you've been drawing the distinction between groupscum and singlescum

i think this can be someting scum is informed of?

==

I'm kinda doing mental gymnastics about the possibility of like scum aligned with the other non Terran SC races who wouldn't have guns and the possibility of a Terran third party who would have a gun and an informed faction unknown gunsmith who knows about a third party who has a gun

Harpoon I need you

some of the races we were talking about yesterday don't have guns, right?
i think a scum gunsmith (informed that there's a 3p) makes sense with a vig and pgo (gunsmiths get guilties on pgos, right?)

==

Key N1 result? Are you odd/even night or full power?

I checked Creature.

Odd night.

i mean this is a little sketchy since he's dead and we know what result you should have gotten

at the same time it doesn't really make sense for an actual scum gunsmith to check creature and kill them the same night *and then claim gunsmith the next day*

it would kinda make sense to me if a scum gunsmith checked creature and then *someone else* killed him; still not sure scum gunsmith actually claims that tho? unless he's actually a gunsmith and is hoping we'll let him live until n3 (and ehhhh not sure a n3 gunsmith check is actually worth it)

==

I couldn’t understand all the town reads on him on D1 so thought it was the best investigation. I thought he was scum who had snuggled into the townbloc.

have you ever played iwth creature before?

==

meh his reasons for checking creature are vague; i don't like that he isn't willing to go back to day1 to show the posts from creature that prompted his read

i think this could well be a scumflip given the twon prs that have flipped already
if it was every night i would maybe say give him a night to get another result, but i'm not sure waiting till n3 is a good idea here

[skitter30]

oh your'e saying he checked someone else and is lying about having checked creature? eh that could be too

i feel like a scum gunsmith with a better result would probably out it? i mean unless he checked a fellow memeber of groupscum ... he'd have checked a tpr or someone of another anti-town faction and i'm not sure why he'd keep that quiet?

also i have a low-key tinfoil-y theory that he's the one who killed creature and he fake-claimed to explain what he was doing there last night in case of trackers/watchers etc

i'm aware that htis is incredibly tin-foil-y is probably not very likely

[skitter30]

Makes plenty of sense as a fake if he were the killer

and makes plenty of sense if he's just trying to lie about his actual results.
It's his play + thinking that claiming a gunsmith on an already-flipped Vig clears him, somehow.

right i think the bolded could have happened (ie he actually did went to creature, but not for the reason stated)

and idk i guess i'm having trouble seeing why scum!him would lie about the results here unless it was literally on a parnter? it would lend more credibility to his claim

[skitter30]

I think alignment is the only one that's truly correlative, like if someone's flavor is straight up Zerg.

i know literally nothing about starcraft but i would be kinda surprised if there was a town!gunsmith and a scumteam that didn't have 'gun' flavor .... if zerg is the flavor of the scumteam, would a gunsmith not catch them?

[skitter30]

hey i had some part in that

[skitter30]

i think i get where you're going with this but if i'm understanding what you're implying correctly i don't believe it

[skitter30]

idk maybe i'm the dumb one and not understanding him correctly

[skitter30]

Nauci skitter and Mitillos I'm gonna defer to you guys here. I'm a pretty firm believer that a thinly veiled agenda is probably town indicative and like to me this just smells like peddling bullshit to coast while we lynch someone else but if you think there's some merit I'm missing I'll back off.

idk if i'm on the right track or not but if i'm understanding what he's insinuating correctly i do not believe it at all

[skitter30]

@Shoshin: Because I'm scumreading Performer, and leaning town on Mew and Key. And I already explained why I was townreading Mew D1. His scumhunting looked genuine to me, and his reads and explanations were actually possible to follow. I have been having some trouble understanding the reasoning of a number of other players, in the instances where it was actually provided.

i mean a player making sense != a player being town

being able to form logical thoughts and being able to express them is not an inherently townie trait

==

If I knew someone was lying I would be trying to hang them with all my strength and passion.

Why does town-Mew leave it til now?

if my understanding of the situation is correct, it makes sense for town!him not to out it or to try to get them lynched
(again, i don't believe the claim he's insinuating and think it's more likely that he's making this up)

I'm pretty sure that he's saying that someone isn't revealing their entire role for reasons that aren't scum-lying and that he's protecting a tpr from full claiming by being weird about it

this basically

==

For instance, here's my information:
I know that Zerg exist as a faction and that their kill, by default, is not bullets.

@mod:

if a player had a killing role, but their kill flavor was *not* bullets, and a gunsmith investigated said player, what result would the gunsmith receive?

==

@Keys the issue I have with the way you're presenting Mewtaph is I kinda feel like you're reading malice into his actions rather than approaching from a place of curiosity/intrigue and trying to discern his intentions if that makes sense

I agree on principle with most of what you're saying but if your claim is true and you have nothing to hide why preempt the attack on Mewt?

Read my posts again.

I’ve already presented the town-Mew-keeps-his-mouth shut universe.

but he's under pressure to claim?

==

so town has zero investigatives?

i mean this is kinda a hasty conclusion based on like ... nothing givne that another ~9 players havne't claimed yet

it's kinda fallacious to say taht the one investigative claim we have is town and that if he isn't town has 0 investigatives

==

A large part of me feels like Nauci is just open wolfing here, the agenda she has been pushing today is so pro-scum. I can't tell if it's coming from a malicious place or reckless town trying to game solve.

i really don't feel ike she's openwolfing like at all?

this is such a strange pov about the gamestate that doesn't match what i'm thinking at all that i have trouble seeing it come from a town pov

pushing lots of different wagons to out info, further pushing mew after he said revealing his info would be anti town, and now pushing on key despite no other invest claims. i struggle to see town motivation for any of this.

i mean yes mechanically there might be reasons not to push these people but like play-wise they're all scummy

==

i kinda wnat to lynch all of {mew/key/kokichi}
kinda xtoxm too
my townread on mitillos is basically gone
my gut says performer may be town (or at least not groupscum) but i think he needs to be resolved somehow but i don't feel like he's the best lynch today because there's people i scumread more

[skitter30]

The idea of wanting to protect our potentially only investigative isn't inherently scummy, imo

I disagree with him but I can understand the perspective?

idk it's kinda bothering me because it feels very like mechanically minded? and not really play-minded

like it feels kinda like going down a checklist of 'correct' play or the 'correct' way to approach investigatives but it kinda ignores their play? idk

like i understand the perspective yeah but i really don't agree with it like at all in this instance

[skitter30]

actually it would be helpful for me if you could link those examples and would influence how i read you; if htis is an approach you usually take as town i woudln't necessarily find it scummy for you to do it here

[skitter30]

i mean i would actually be fine lynching kokichi today but yeah

[skitter30]

mechanics are FAR more reliable in this game than reads.

I strongly disagree. You can't reliably outguess the mod or know what sorts of misdirection powers scum have. Behaviors, on the other hand, never lie.

Key’s N2 results are confirmable - one way or the other.

didn't he claim odd night?

he's not giving another result till like day 4

[skitter30]

viewtopic.php?p=7570320#p7570320
viewtopic.php?p=7421346#p7421346
2 most recent ones that come to mind.

i will check these a later tonight

[skitter30]

It bothers me that A50 is hardly posting at all

I assume this bothers skitter even more

yes, it does

==

I'm more suspect of Nauci and AlmostNancy, who are more kinda caught up with flavor-spec and pondering about and haven't been that much of a force today while just kinda letting these main wagons happen.
If we get a townflip from whoever they've settled on, I'd be more critical of them.

Speaking of people not really leaving an impression on me, Irrelephant came to mind and I literally had to check the OP to realize he was one of the dead players.
Sorry for kinda phoning this one in.

P-EDIT: See, they're posting A LOT but I don't think they've come to fruitful conclusions.

Actually willing to go against the grain on this.
VOTE: AlmostNancy

the bit about irrel feels kinda townie to me

==

I am informed there is another player in the game with the same flavor name as me.
I am also informed that they are a member of the Zerg faction.

same flavor name as you is kinda odd i guess? also they would prob have a fake-claim then and wouldn't like ... actually claim that flavor, right

also, with all of these informed claims, mitillos claiming that there isn't a ninja isn't as townie in hindsight and originally that's what i found super townie from him

==

I think that AlmostNancy's play has specifically been trying to get me to tilt the other knowledge I have.

i'm not sure i'm following your train of thought, is this correct:

* you know that there's an anti-town zerg faction, and will be told if they tried to nk anyone at night
* you have a specific flavor (duran)
* you know that a member of the zerg faction has this same flavor, and that the zerg know that your role exists
* since nancy is informed that there is more than one of a specific flavor, you think she's a member of the zerg and is fishing for you and trying to kill you before you tell town all of this?

==

Each night, I learn the targets of the Zerg night kills.
At Night 4, I will learn all of the targets for Zerg night actions taken on Night 3.

ie you'll know why tried to nk? (so if the target didn't die you'd know that they aren't zerg (or that they tried to kill one of their own membersn?))

and n4 you addditionally know the targets of all actions they took n3? (does this happen any other nights, or just n4?)

==

@tw is it normal for town!nancy to freak out whenever someone says they're scumreading her?

==

You literally said you know someone isn't 'the original' [FLAVORNAME].
That's my role.

maybe she's another townie informed of something simialr and/or on another scumteam.

so last night we had two kills, and you're claiming that there is some other scumteam, and a town vig flipped, as did a town pgo

that's ... a lot of deaths.

if there's a scum faction with bullet flavor it makes a ridiculous amount of sense for keyser to be a zerg gunsmith

==

For the record, Duran is a Xel'naga, a species separate from the 3 main factions in the game. They're more like god-tier creatures who push the other 3 around like chess pieces. So I'd be inclined to think Varsoon is 3p (probably non town killing 3p?) and that there's an evil Duran in the game. Duran is a Xel'naga species character who has disguised as various characters throughout the franchise of arguable virtue to push the narrative along.

This flavor shit is now completely bananas and I am shaking my fist at Krazy's popcorn bucket

did he ever disguise himself as a zerg?

==

That wasn’t the case before. A50 played the way he did, to keep us safe from the NK. That’s why he did all of that memeing, because he had been NK’d early in his past few games.

ok and why isn't he posting now?

[skitter30]

VOTE: keyser

i still want mewtaph and kokichi dead btw

(maybe if i keep repeating it it'll happen one day)

[skitter30]

@tw is it normal for town!nancy to freak out whenever someone says they're scumreading her?

yes
it's also town indicative

ngl it's a little frustrating and exhausting reading through that each time

[skitter30]

are you talking about mew?

[skitter30]

I thought nancy's reaction was pretty townie tbh.

If zerg are the only scum faction, and dont have gun flavor, town gunsmith doesnt make much sense to me.

If there's more than one faction, and the other faction does have gun flavor, town or zerg gunsmith makes sense to me

@varsoon, zerg is an anti town faction, right?

[skitter30]

@mod: if a player had a killing role, but their kill flavor was *not* bullets, and a gunsmith investigated said player, what result would the gunsmith receive?

i asked this yesterday but i think krazy didn't see it

[skitter30]

I'm not sure what is even being said here. "It feels like I'm town but then probably not?"

idk
my gut says you aren't the right lynch rn and that you aren't groupscum, even though objectively you've been kinda scummy

i try to listen to my gut, especially when deciding who to lynch, because it's sometimes better at figuring out what's right than i am consciously

ie during lylo i pretty much always listen to my gut when deciding where to vote and sometimes voting person a feels wrong so i just don't vote them; this method, although imprecise and not really something i can articulate, works very well for me; i think i've gotten xylo wrong like once since i've started playing

and that same gut that tells me who's the wrong vote in lylo says you're not the right vote rn

don't think i can explain better

despite that you're kinda objectively scummy so like i won't complain too much i guess if you get lynched because you prob need to be resolved through lylo

i don't think i'll vote you but like i won't prevent it from happening

[skitter30]

He was on a plane at the time I think

maybe just PM about it

fair enough, fair enough; it was also buried in a wall

[skitter30]

He was on a plane at the time I think

maybe just PM about it

fair enough, fair enough; it was also buried in a wall

yeah i sent a pm

[skitter30]

actually i'd vote performer over a no-lynch

he's just not my optimal lynch rn

[skitter30]

mewtaph is still my optimal lynch btw

[skitter30]

also i changed my mind and i'm now tending town on xtoxm

[skitter30]

@varsoon I think we really need you to read mewtaph

Can you direct me to certain posts?

the individual posts aren't particularly bad

they just holistically lack nuance or scumhunting

(and my theory that at least one of the players who were wagoned at eod yesterday are scum)

[skitter30]

VOTE: mewtaph

also

@mod: v/la till sunday; regular weekend v/la

[skitter30]

i should be back before deadline tho

[skitter30]

I'll still probably mod but I think I'm awful at the actual game of mafia.
Like particularly game-throwingly bad.

i don't know if my opinion is relevant or important to you, but i dont' think that you're that bad at it

i think you made a mistake and probably outed before you should have, but i don't think it was on the level of game-throwing or anything, and hey, it's a game, and eveyrone makes mistakes or plays suboptimally. i don't think it was the worst thing on the planet you could have done

and now at least we can try to sort out the gunsmith/flavor thing out of this, and it finally helped me get a read on nancy

(sometimes i think you get a little too aggressive for my taste, but it think that's something you try to reign back and not let it get personal, and i don't think you crossed any lines in this game)

[skitter30]

:/

i'm sorry you feel that way
i don't really feel let down by you or that you're a liability, if that helps?

i think your'e really good at figuring out the mechanics side of things and youv'e been super helpful with flavor

and idk just becuase you aren't the best player in the history of the game doesn't mean you shouldn't play or something, everyone can improve in various areas, and everyone makes mistakes

i would def continue playing games with you, if that means anything to you

[skitter30]

I was feeling tortured over the informational stuff on my role, especially when it felt like Almost Nancy was BLATANTLY fishing for it.
Especially since I literally just came out of TAZ, where we would've probably won if I had just claimed my guilty on NSG.
I fucked up there and I think I fucked up here, too.
Why does this keep happening to me?

and i don't think you fucked up here really other

maybe didn't make the most optimal play, but i don't think your choice was really that bad or anything, def not as bad as you seem to think it is

[skitter30]

@mod:

if a player had a killing role, but their kill flavor was *not* bullets, and a gunsmith investigated said player, what result would the gunsmith receive?

Unless I flavored the role to have a gun in some way, a gunsmith would receive a "no gun" result

Do feel free to pm if I miss something

so if zerg don't have 'bullet' flavor than a gunsmith will get a 'no gun' result on them if i'm understanding this correctly
@varsoon, you're told that zerg do not have bullet flavor, correct?

[skitter30]

oh for some reason i vaguely remember you saying when you claimd that they didn't have bullet flavor; i didn't go back to check and i wasn't sure if i was remembering correctly

and hey, it's possible you could have played better, but live and let learn for next time. really don't beat yourself up over it

so if a scum faction does not have 'gun/bullet' kill flavor, the gunsmith is useless to finding them.
and since town prs have several flipped roles with gun/bullet flavor, that would indicate that keyser can get a lot of 'fake' guilties, and (if zerg don't have bullets) no guilties on the zerg

and that makes it feel like a scum role to me, zerg who can find some other gun-flavor faction + town prs
and less likely to be town

of course all of htis is based on the assumption that zerg don't have bullets which i feel is semi-reasonable? idk i know squat about flavor so i coudl well be wrong here

[skitter30]

i mean if htere isn't another gunsmith it's irrelevant if he has a gun or not
(also like mafia docs don't have guns iether; just because the faction as a whole has it doesn't imply that a particular member of the faction also doesn't)

i think he's pretty likely to flip some flavor of scum but i'd feel incredibly silly actually lynching a town gunsmith today before we know whether or not zerg have bullet flavor

idk

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i think varsoon is town
(or, in a game with multiball, at least benevelont 3p or whatever)

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eh

VOTE: keyser

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idk i might switch back soonish before i leave for the weekend

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idk, like i said, before this game i thought starcraft was a tv show

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Yeah it doesn't make sense.
Also, the thing that keeps irking me is
Keyser said he was an 'informed' gunsmith

And also he claimed after other people put out the possibility of gunsmith.

It just feels really, really artificial.

i actually don't remember the bolded happening
i don't inherently have a problem with the informed part; it makes sense for either town or scum to be told there's a third party (if there's a third party and zerg is the main faction what does the 3p make sense to be?)

i think his check on creature is meh
and i'm a little dubious that there's a town gunsmith rn

p-edit i'm pretty sure he said he's informed there's a third party anti-town faction but i'll go find it

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https://us.shop.battle.net/en-us/product/starcraft

Seriously, this runs on Windows 95.
Go play it.
It's literally free.

cool, maybe i'll check it out

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Not yet - I know there is a third party who can’t win with town.

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the hits for gunsmith before he claimed are fairly negligible and took place like thousands of posts before his claim (there's like five of them and nobody was really suggesting that is a gunsmith, or that a gunsmith should claim, etc)

p-edit yeah those hits

i don't think they're that relevant to this discussion tbh

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I still think the mafia lies within Key, Mew, Xtom, Mitillos, or Performer. I don't care that much who we lynch in this group as long as it's one of these five.

There's a chance that Koki's scum but it's not something I care to worry about today. I also don't think it changes my analysis that the rest of scum lie in those five players.

mew > key >> performer >>>>> mitillos = xtoxm

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I'm not sure what is even being said here. "It feels like I'm town but then probably not?"

idk
my gut says you aren't the right lynch rn and that you aren't groupscum, even though objectively you've been kinda scummy

i try to listen to my gut, especially when deciding who to lynch, because it's sometimes better at figuring out what's right than i am consciously

ie during lylo i pretty much always listen to my gut when deciding where to vote and sometimes voting person a feels wrong so i just don't vote them; this method, although imprecise and not really something i can articulate, works very well for me; i think i've gotten xylo wrong like once since i've started playing

and that same gut that tells me who's the wrong vote in lylo says you're not the right vote rn

don't think i can explain better

despite that you're kinda objectively scummy so like i won't complain too much i guess if you get lynched because you prob need to be resolved through lylo

i don't think i'll vote you but like i won't prevent it from happening

gut basically
idk how to articulate this sort of thing better beyond 'it feels kinda wrong to vote there'

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like it's the sort of thing i listen to when trying to decide where to vote in lylo
and the sort of thing that told me not_mafia was town yesterday even though i couldn't explain it

i'll prob get a lot of flak if he ever flips scum but it doesn't feel liek the right lynch rn

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lol i guess i feel like i have to put a lot of effort into trying to explain the things i don't know how to explain to get my point across, cuz most of the time i can write a ten page essay detailing exactly why i came to some conclusion and i can't really do that for my gut, it just kinda is and i try to listen to it nonetheless

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my issues with the setup and how some people played non-withstanding, i think tw played brilliantly and absolutely deserves his win

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my issues with the setup and how some people played non-withstanding, i think tw played brilliantly and absolutely deserves his win

Who is claiming otherwise? But pro-tip, town!Shoshin, never mislynches like this and what pinged me the hardest was how nonchalant she was about that.

In Labrynth, town!Shoshin practically went near-postal whrnever we had a mislynch - even anti-town AA9. And she would have torn me a new one over ever scumreading me/voting me for being suspicious of that.

i didn't say anyone said otherwise, i was sharing my feelings on the subject

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yeah, @not-mafia, your reads were spot on
sorry for denigrating them this kinda changed my perspective wrt your reads

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swingy as fuck, yes, but given it was pseudo-multiball, that was going to be a given

I think that the roles in the setup are mostly fine

but to me, the issue is that anti-town roles had enormous amounts of setup information, while the vast majority of town roles did not? I guess I should have assumed fuckery was at foot just because of how precise the explanation of my cop results were, but for some reason I just didn't think it was reasonable to think things were this fucky. Maybe that's just me though.

i talked about this at length, but yeah i felt like this too.
i guess i just feel like town just ... didn't have enough information to navigate the various anti-town roles

(i'm still kinda stuck on the nk flavor thing, for example)

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no, my point is that town didn't have enough information (not that they had too much) and that the way the night kills played out very much fucked iwth town's ability to figure out what was going on

from my pov (until i died, but whatever):
two town killing prs died impossibly n1 wiht bullet flavor; they both had bullet flavor
i died via zerg
everyone else died via bullet flavor

i don't know when you guys knew about the witch but from my pov day2, there were two town killing prs dead who shouldnt' ahve been responsible for each other's death (pgo was dead + creature was even-night) so there's two other sources of night kills (vig? groupscum? sk?)
and then i died n2 to some other entity (zerg flavored kill) - so now there's a third source of nk's; and the first two didn't kill n1 and the third didn't kill n2
and everyoen else died to bullets after that until varsoon (i'm guessing because performer killed them?)

so l ike trying to piece what sort of anti-town there even were (or how many there were) from the night-kills was kinda impossible

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like i think that there were *a lot* of anti-town for a game this size that town didn't have the requisite information to try to handle

like the arso douses weren't even notified of it? how was town supposed to play around an arso they didn't know existed? you had a rolecop, town didn't.

or just trying to figure out the creature/irrel situation was very counter-intuitive imo

like i guess my major gripe is that town really had no idea what they were up against, or what sort of anti-town even existed until very very late in the game when the anti-towns already had the requisiste numbers for things like quickhammers

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yes, i'm ridiculously good at rolling vt

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again, krazy, i thought your moderation was excellent and i would def play another game modded by you

i just ... had some gripes about the setup from town's pov

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so when 2/3 zerg turn out to have bullets

2/3 of them did? i thought it was just performer

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i also thought it was a very fun setup and i did enjoy playing it! (most of my problems were really in the dead thread when i got spoiled; playign was a lot of fun)

i do agree that flavor was kinda important and i didn't realize that would be a thing when i signed up

also @tw my problems with the setup doesn't detract from the fact that i think you played an excellent game and that you utilized the opportunities given to you very very very well

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Thank you very much. thwt means a lot to me coming from you (the evolution of your scumplay entering jjh's game is some of the most impressive scumwork I've ever seen, hands down). I'll definitely take it.

i very very sincerely mean it

i thought you played a ridiculously good game here, quite a lot better than what i did in jj's game. i basically prodged my way to winning that one (albeit doing a lot of work behind the scenes and pocketing the right people); i had like no in-thread presence

you had basically everyone wrapped around your finger here and townreading you

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i think you're technically not eligible for the 2018 scummy for this but i nommed you for it anyways