Guns & Roses III [Game over]

[Menalque]

Let’s VOTE: iconeum for an

iconic

day one lynch!

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Also lmao lots of roses

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But, like, his name tho

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VOTE: SS

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No datisi SS needs to die he said my puns aren’t funny

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I was trying to find some variation of "he said what we were all thinking" or "he's brave for telling the truth" in gif form but i didn't find anything good in the 3 minutes i was searching

Wow I wasn’t expecting to have already been betrayed twice 14 fucking posts into the game

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My puns are fucking ace what’s wrong with you both

Calling it now the scum team is literally datisi, SS

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Calling it now the scum team is literally datisi, SS

There's 3 scum tho

You can be scum twice

[Menalque]

Hi Menalque smells

I think u forgot “good”

Oh, wtf. It’s Salamence. Neat.

SS, I’m getting scum vibes from you. I don’t think I’m right by any means, but I feel we’re about to be on different sides of the shift. (Not alignment wise, gamestate wise) However, it could be leftover from the last Guns/Roses.

I for one

love

bad puns. You gotta go for the bad ones to test the audience. Sometimes ya hit, sometimes ya miss.

Hey, I was meant to pocket you this game not vice versa


Did I mention how obviously townie you’ve been so far?

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Feels like just yesterday I was in a fakegod game. Odd

Whatcha thinking?

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@GL do you think 35 was genuine?

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Whatcha thinking?

Salamence was in the FG game that just finished, lol.

What alignment was he there?

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@GL do you think 35 was genuine?

Why ask this of GL in particular?

Ask me this again later

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Who was he? I cbf to trawl through the endgame

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Hey, Menalque, are you the type who wears cologne?

Don’t worry, guys, I’m not pulling my cologne gambit, I’m generally just curious and we talked about him smelling.

You have a cologne gambit?

Also, depends

Also hi

[Menalque]

Who was he? I cbf to trawl through the endgame

Gentleman 5.

Ty

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Also I think I have a light SR but I’m sort of mixed on it

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Calling it now the scum team is literally datisi, SS

There's 3 scum tho

Only scum would notice such a glaring omission

VOTE: Datisi

Salamence can be my first scumread

And you sir can be my first townread for taking a rvs vote seriously

. SS Looks to be town as well. Pretentious rose soft could be a mafia, but since I know who he (Hi Boon!) is its a nulltake.

Almidia is a good serious vote, but I think 55 is rvs so maybe not.

Why is this town!indicative?

[Menalque]

Seems like a honest read, and I was waiting for something serious to happen. I like quick RVS.

I thought it was p obviously a joke tho

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Never say I don’t love you ddl

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=79939&hilit=Guns+n+roses

Also while finding this I saw there was a TAZ mini theme like 2 years ago and you have no idea how salty I am that I wasn’t around for that

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thanks that's super nice of you menal!

Idk how I feel about this but ur welcome

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I mean ofc I knew there were 3 scum I have a pt with 2 of them duh doy

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I think we played one game together where I nailed you as scum on your replace-in, but then you successfully argued your way out of it to the point where I townread you and then lost as a result. No love lost at all though, you played well

Was this Let’s Talk About An On-Going game?

nah it was Charging Up

@GL do you think 35 was genuine?

I thought it was presented in a joking manner (and Salamence has since said it was RVS/joke) but personally I viewed it as something that's worth a non-RVS vote and I was kinda hoping Salamence felt the same. I think if you genuinely forgot when posting that there were 3 scum then that's a townslip and Datisi pointing it out yet without any thought to your alignment feels like something scum might do.

Hmm

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Datisi is scum with me and SS

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Datisi is always scum tho, apart from when she’s obvtown

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I actually have mild scrumpings from her that she’s not posting more here

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But like v mild and I’ve read her right in every game we’ve played together since our first so I’m p confident I’ll get a stronger read on her by end of D1

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No, because I think datisi knows me well enough to know that I will have checked the number of scum regardless of alignment

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I also thought sala was p clearly joking and so I’m most concerned by you saying you thought it was worth a vote bc that seems p reachy to me tbh

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I find it weird that people are looking for excuses to TR me tbh

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I think there’s scum in (sally, GL)

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We can go for this first VOTE: GL

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@GL do you think 35 was genuine?

Why ask this of GL in particular?

Ask me this again later

Can you answer this yet?

Yes, I wanted to know if he voted dats in 38 for memes or not

I don’t think dats’ thing about there being 3 scum was AI any more than I think me listing 2 scum is AI for me

The fact that he used it to justify a semi serious vote is opportunistic

[Menalque]

I think we played one game together where I nailed you as scum on your replace-in, but then you successfully argued your way out of it to the point where I townread you and then lost as a result. No love lost at all though, you played well

Was this Let’s Talk About An On-Going game?

nah it was Charging Up

@GL do you think 35 was genuine?

I thought it was presented in a joking manner (and Salamence has since said it was RVS/joke) but personally

I viewed it as something that's worth a non-RVS vote and I was kinda hoping Salamence felt the same

. I think if you genuinely forgot when posting that there were 3 scum then that's a townslip and Datisi pointing it out yet without any thought to your alignment feels like something scum might do.

Also thought this was super noncommittal and I also think GL would be quite likely to want me to TR him after nomination mafia

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Okay, why?

Like if he’d just blown it off as wanting to generate pressure I’d prob handwave it

It’s the combination of it “being worth a non-RVS vote” but not really going beyond that that makes the opportunism seem scummy to me

Like wanting to be seen to do something beyond RVS

[Menalque]

Seems like a honest read, and I was waiting for something serious to happen. I like quick RVS.

I thought it was p obviously a joke tho

I didn't tho

Do you mean creature’s SR in you or your original post?

Bc when I said I thought it was p obviously a joke I was talking about your vote in dats

[Menalque]

Opportunism is voting someone for a weak reason. For a player looking to vote in the very early game, they have no reasons but weak reasons, regardless of alignment. So if it's GL's nature to try to get a serious vote down asap, then it's completely expected for him to jump on the first scrap of content he can find.

Okay so then why not say that when asked about it?

It’s the combination of it “being worth a non-RVS vote” but not really going beyond that that makes the opportunism seem scummy to me

What do you mean "not really going beyond that"?

Like being non-RVS implies to me that he thought there was something genuinely scummy about dats’ thing but I don’t think he’s followed that up

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@sally can you tell me if you’ve played with icon much before I answer you?

I asked about perfect masq bc it’s a recent large theme you’ve played in, I haven’t had the time to meta you yet

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Tbf i also have less faith now than I used to in sorting through meta if it’s not meta I have personally with people

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Okay so then why not say that when asked about it?

What do you call 121?

Yeah you might be right but more bc of 118 actually

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I thought it was presented in a joking manner (and Salamence has since said it was RVS/joke) but personally I viewed it as something that's worth a non-RVS vote and I was kinda hoping Salamence felt the same. I think if you genuinely forgot when posting that there were 3 scum then that's a townslip and Datisi pointing it out yet without any thought to your alignment feels like something scum might do.

I mean town can easily look at the OP and see how many scum there are.

I also find it weird that you read Salamence's vote as joking yet read the banter between Menal/Datisi as serious.

I didn't read the banter as serious - what makes you say that I did? You can be joking and still mess up how many scum there are. If anything

part of the reason I was pinged by Datisi is

because

she wasn't more serious

.

Yo GL talk to me about this

[Menalque]

Never heard of icon before this game

Hmm, okay

The reason is that icon is generally v mislynch baity and so pushing him early tends to ping me if it’s from someone who knows him who should know that him being scummy doesn’t necessarily mean he’s scum

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him being scummy doesn’t necessarily mean he’s scum

I mean this is true of everyone lol.

Yes but I think it’s more true for some players than others, specifically for mislynch baity players

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why do you call me mislynch bait every single game

Bc you are mislynch baity like nearly every game babe

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Aaron why icon and not creature?

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Like you just called a whole series of creatures posts “gross and inconsistent” then voted a player who is often mislynched as town

Why is icon giving me towncred there worse than what you object to about creature’s posts?

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Datisi i need you to come and post here more pls so I can read you

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No I just need you to post a lot to see if you’re giving off relaxed town!dats vibes or stressing-out-in-the-PT-very-unrelaxed scum!dats vibes

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When you catch up what do you think of icon so far?

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I think part of the problem is that my scum leans don’t make sense with each other unless they’re playing like a super distancy game

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Ugh European time zone

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Well I mean it is a problem because it suggests that either some of my scumleans are SvT but idk which side or that I’m completely off base

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I feel like you’re being kind of weirdly adversarial this game SS

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Like not aggressively so but it seems like a lot of whatever anyone is posting you’re shutting down before it gets off the ground

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I just don’t particularly remember you doing this in other games so it seems a lil off

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Although I’m not sure how many games we’ve actually played from the start together

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VOTE: AF

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Pret actually seems to be making more of an effort to be lucid than normal (I haven’t had to ask him to explain anything to me yet — apart from lack of knowledge, I’m still waiting on the cologne thing) and idk how I feel about that

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Can you say what the cologne gambit is?

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Does Pret always act like this?

Very yes

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i think creature and pret are both town. hot take

Why?

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I think I like this more than Aaron actually

VOTE: amrun

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Like I wanted to see if any scum would take the bait of hopping on the Aaron wagon but I’m impatient and I already feel okay about amrun!scum

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I think AFF is town

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I think his progression on creature does make sense and while it pings me slightly that he voted Icon > creature his reasons for voting icon are the same things that have me unsure about him atm

Also I like that he didn’t hop onto the ‘mena townslipped’ thing and actively called it out

[Menalque]

I actually thought that the amrun vote on him was v opportunistic because it came as his wagon was starting to heat up, plus I’m generally not a fan of her ISO, although idk if I’m ready to case it yet

[Menalque]

Actually I will case it a tiny bit

Mena just admitted that he will have checked the number of scum regardless of alignment tho
So I personally think Mena is null for that statement

Do you scumread Mena?

um no ChooChoo this way

VOTE: Creature

You ignored my question.

VOTE: alimdia

@alimdia: Sorry about that - missed it!

I’m still happy with my vote for the weird vote that followed.

I dislike this series of posts, the reason for the vote (like why is not answering a question scummy in the first place?) and then the lack of attachment or follow up

In other words, I can very easily see AF’s posting as scum motivated; attempt to capitalize on obvious town mistakes, but place vote on most likely mislynch. Obviously that’s untrue if Ico ends up flipping scum. I’m null on him currently.

This just seems off? Like if AFF was trying to capitalise on “obvious town mistakes” I think he’d be much more likely to vote creature than icon? I also think it’s weird to call him out for going for icon when I think amrun also said that I didn’t townslip so I’d expect her to be at least a little susp of icon’s TRing of a non-slip and to get why people would vote him off that

Just bc he’s mislynch bait doesn’t mean he’s town, it just means additional consideration should be given when thinking about lynching him

Also as I look at this it actually seems kind of perspective slippy? Like calling AFF out for capitalising on “obvious town mistakes” sounds a little too much like she knows they’re town, esp considering her null read on icon? Plus calling icon the most likely mislynch

Like I think if amrun!scum then icon probably has to be town

Wow, Pretentious. Are there any stances you DO want to take?

Wow, Pretentious. Are there any stances you DO want to take?

I don’t take stances, I just say my thoughts, and explain what I think is going on on a gamestate level.

That would be fine if your posts actually were saying something.



@salamence: what does “not entirely scum” mean?

This also feels like a weird thing to call out from pret given that she’s clearly familiar with him per her opening post

Like pret not having stances is v NAI imo and I would expect anyone who knows him to know that

So calling it out seems like fishing for town points and to look like scum hunting

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Wanna vote amrun, dats?

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Townlean as of the moment

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I kinda wish you were posting more but you’re mostly a tonal read for me and I don’t think you’re coming across as if you’re having hysterics in a pt while conducting this conversation

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@Menal: That case is far too boring to spend my time on tbh but I’ll touch on a few salient points.

Not answering a direct question is usually scummy, or at least belligerent, but it does depend on what the question was. In this case, it was me being a derp and missing the answer. The vote was still weird, though.

My experience with Pret is 100% limited to a game I replaced into where he was already dead and was obvscum. Just for reference. Tonally, it’s completely different from this game. He started on a more angry alt too, so it is so off here I can’t use that meta really.

Even if I had 100 years of experience with him, trying to sort him would not be strange, or scummy. This is a bizarre stance to take; however, I get the impression that you rely a lot on meta so I think that’s NAI from you. I, however, think meta is trash.

As for AF, he might be scum, might not. I’m not familiar with him enough to sort playstyle from alignment indicative actions right away. So I’ll pressure him as I please, thank you.

I mean (1) the fact you went “eh still a weird vote” feels like you were looking for an excuse to vote him and idk why that’s natural? Also I disagree that not answering a direct question is scummy when the simplest explanation is that the person just missed it?

(2) I don’t think that trying to sort him is strange/scummy and I don’t think I said anything implying I thought that? I think that trying to sort him specifically in the way you claim you are is weird and doesn’t make sense from anyone who’s played with him even once

(3) also feel like you’re now backing off AF that you’ve been called on it when I think your earlier posts implied greater confidence on scum!him

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VOTE: AaronFrost

His posts read very forced. His progression on creature also sucks.

He calls out creature for something and then commits the exact same offense very quickly by voting Iconeum, who is, IMO, lower hanging fruit than Creature.

Do you agree that AF had any sort of point against Creature though? Since you word it as an offense? I do see what you're saying about AF tbf

I do, I just think scum would be more worried about how they appear and that Creature will sort himself as the game goes on. In other words, Creature seems like he doesn’t gaf and was posting whatever popped into his mind and probably forgot about AF in that moment.

AF, on the other hand, seems to me like he cares how he comes off - a lot.

In other words, I can very easily see AF’s posting as scum motivated; attempt to capitalize on obvious town mistakes, but place vote on most likely mislynch. Obviously that’s untrue if Ico ends up flipping scum. I’m null on him currently.

Like all of this seems inconsistent with “he might be scum, he might not” and voting to pressure

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Yo icon wanna do me a favour

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@SOmething_Smart, any reason why you didn't RVS? Just curious.

Also, I just looked through all your posts again.

You post very neutral, answer and ask a bunch of questions but haven't drawn any conclusions from them.

You have too many posts for me to link all of them, but I encourage everyone to ISO SOmething_Smart up to Post 310.

I think thats a very strong scumtell.

YOu have lots of posts, made lots of neutral statements or fluff, but haven't had any conclusions.

VOTE: SOmething_Smart

This is literally just SS and it’s NAI

But tbh I townlean him because I think he’s actually trying to work with me, even if I still think he’s been a bit overly oppositional

I think my GL read was prob bad and I don’t see why scum!him doesn’t let me take that thread and run with it

[Menalque]

Yo icon wanna do me a favour

i've already sent you the pics

might wanna check spam folder

Mmmm, imma have fun with these tonight

[Menalque]

But like, do u also wanna do me an ingame favour?

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Also alim if ur around do u wanna do me a solid

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You read my mind

Only 2 votes on so L-6

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VOTE: Amrun

Noice

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Long day gonna catch up/be around tomorrow

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So like I’m not properly caught up but at this point I think prob 2 scum in (amrun, sally, ddl)

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Possibly the entire team

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Least sure on ddl but I feel p good on (amrun, sally)

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Creature what do you think of sally/ddl?

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Strong ninja

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Why is Aaron scum?

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all ddl has done if iirc correctly is turn up call amrun town as soon as her wagon appeared and then vote elsewhere

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Oh wait he didn’t even vote lol

[Menalque]

Yeah we could also lynch ddl today that’s not a town ISO and he’s totally different tonally from C9++

[Menalque]

i have some ~thoughts~ but they are for later today.

sally

turns out I forgot how to play mafia
VOTE: sally

thanks that's super nice of you menal!

Pine getting lynched was bad town play in G&R 1

hmm?

oh i see. 11 town

i also realized this game is considerably faster than I had previously thought

amrun im glad you shifted back to your old avi

i dont really get scum vibes from ico this game.
i could do aafrost

i might just roll through day 1 sheeping creature

Pret you're not MLB

Mislynch bait...

Rock climbing is dumb imo

i think creature and pret are both town. hot take

I could not be more uninterested in amrun wagon

Sally's post on SS is super awkward

Oh yeah I asked DDL about his history with Icon somewhere I think

yes i played a game w/ ico in the past. he was scum i was town.

pret are you not invested in this game because you didnt roll scum

[Menalque]

Like he has 30 posts and that’s 17 of them

There’s just no impetus to solve in that, he doesn’t feel comfortably meme-y like in C9++ early on

A load of it is fluffposting while trying to look active, or just iioa

Even when he’s approaching analysis there’s nothing beyond surface level

[Menalque]

Ehh I’ll reread Aaron but I’m not sure he chooses to bus that early rather than try to redirect Titus wagon

[Menalque]

I suppose sally is doing stuff and could just be bad town but idk

He seems super resistant to the amrun wagon and like I don’t think there are good reasons to be TRing amrun atm?

Plus I really hated that post where he tried to shade the entire wagon

[Menalque]

amrun [5] - Menalque, Datisi, Iconeum, AaronFrost, Dogwatch

Someone tell me thats all town.

Its not if you ask me.

This one

[Menalque]

I kind of hate his posting style tho so maybe that’s biasing me?

[Menalque]

I think assuming you can 3p solve at this point is silly

I don’t think you understand what I’m doing tbh

[Menalque]

Like if I’m solving that doesn’t necessarily mean I think that is

the solve

it’s just a way for me to keep track of the players I think are scummiest and who, importantly, make sense as scum together

[Menalque]

Like the thing I’m slightly worried about with amrun is the wagon speed which is faster than I’m comfortable with

[Menalque]

Unless both the others are bussing? But then that’s a weird move for D1 when your partner could legit get lynched, and I think would imply early scum on the wagon who couldn’t get off but that seems wrong bc I’m p good on dats and icon being town

[Menalque]

@amrun idk you still feel v hedgey here which isn’t what I’d expect from town!you, and I also don’t like the way that you’re targeting a lurker while still being open to what I think is prob the main alternative to your own wagon which seems v survivialisitc

[Menalque]

Survivalistic* fuck me

[Menalque]

I think assuming you can 3p solve at this point is silly

I don’t think you understand what I’m doing tbh

What makes you say that? I think I can follow and understand it, I just also think there's probably scum in your blindspot like 80% of the time, or at least there is for me whenever I'm trying to look at associatives and teams d1

Yeah there normally is, but I think it helps my overall thought process and read rste to try and solve from D1

Normally I get at least 1 scum but also end up with at least one in my TRs

The question then becomes how well I can reevaluate based on flips

It just sounded like you were thinking my intention was to come up with a solid solve D1 when that’s not it at all

[Menalque]

@amrun yeah I’m talking about ddl

Doesn’t matter if there are no votes on him, I’m reading the room

[Menalque]

Re: DDL.

I think some of it is just playstyle. However, in a game I replaced into with him in it, his reads were actually OK. He was eventually NK by scum, though I didn’t personally understand the kill.

In any case, it does seem to be a departure from his play that game since he’s like afraid to take stances here. So I could see it.

P-

edit: Because I’m town, and there’s scum pushing it somewhere. And that’s EXACTLY what Salamence20 was saying when you said he’s “shading the whole wagon,” which isn’t what he’s doing, IMO.

Okay so here’s my objection to that: I don’t think this wagon is really being pushed outside of me?

And I don’t read anyone else on it early ss scummy, so I think this is v much a town motivated wagon which makes that “tell me this is all town” comment an effort to shade the wagon fmpov

Now if I’m wrong on you, I think scum probably did jump on, but towards the end of the wagon less than the start

If I’m right then sally trying to discredit the early wagon (ie the impetus for the whole thing) was def an attempt to stop it gaining traction

[Menalque]

Creature come back and tell them I play like dogshit as town

The only game I’ve played with you, you didn’t play like dogshit

+1 tbf

[Menalque]

I suppose sally is doing stuff and could just be bad town but idk

WTF?

He seems super resistant to the amrun wagon and like I don’t think there are good reasons to be TRing amrun atm?

I said before I don't like your case and I don't like the people on said wagon.

Plus I really hated that post where he tried to shade the entire wagon

I'm coming back to this.

Idk what you want me to say to this?

[Menalque]

Okay sally let’s try this differently, if you think there’s scum on amrun!wagon, how many?

[Menalque]

Datisi why are you not posting more

[Menalque]

Jesús Christ how do I get ninja’d like 29 times in 5 minutes and then this thread turns into a fucking graveyard again in the same period of time

[Menalque]

Especially when this is like the only time when I can talk to about half the playerlist

[Menalque]

Okay talk to me about icon/DW? Because I think the whole of the front end of the wagon is town rn

[Menalque]

I don’t really see either of those two as scummy

I’m p sure I was mindmelding with icon at some point which is normally a good sign unless it’s someone like skitter who can fake town thought processes well enough that I’ve mindmelded with her when she’s been scum

And dogwatch reads as newb!town to me even if she’s not a true newb

I think her amrun vote is towny as she goes from agreeing with her to voting her and I think scum are normally more concerned about showing their progression whereas town just go with it when their reads change so they’re more flipfloppy

Also I think a couple of people have been calling her scum and she’s p much just ignored it which is +townpoints

[Menalque]

alright I've read up but my energy is rapidly draining as it's been a long couple days and it's getting late here. I'll be around more for a bit tonight but ~ real effort ~ will come tomorrow probably.

I'm updating my townreads to include AF and Datisi. Amrun is a spicy wagon that I think has p good odds of scum and I'm gonna join it, but right now I feel I got a stronger read on alimdia. I think the S_S tunnel is a distraction and disingenuous, and has given alimdia cover not to comment on anything else actually relevant going on.

AF - do you still want me to explain my townreads from half the game ago? I can do that but frankly I don't really want to unless this will genuinely help you sort me

VOTE: Amrun

It bothers me that you have a stronger read on Alimdia. Why not vote there?

Because i don't think voting Alimdia would generate any info or likely lead to a lynch and in a game with this many people it's better to wagon than to vanity vote

What do you think of this @sslly?

[Menalque]

What do you mean by “a chain”? Im not saying locktown but yeah I think those are both behaviours that come more often from town so *shrug*

I hard disagree on lynching a lurker

I think scum is normally gonna have at least one active player so I think the best bet is to aim for that, it’s a huge gamble for the entire scumtesm to lurk out the game hoping no one will target them, plus the more interactions a player has the easier it is to sort around them even they are a mislynch

You’re right about the counter wagon tbf that’s another thing that’s unsettling

[Menalque]

Okay I think sally can be town actually

[Menalque]

UNVOTE:

Don't really want to do Amrun anymore. I think this is a better vote for today.

VOTE: Guilty Lion

His hop on the Amrun wagon was gross and I agree lack of a counterwagon is unsettling.

hmmm

[Menalque]

Ok, don’t have much time and posting on phone so forgive the lack of quotes. Also I haven’t read every single post yet.

Ever since GL and Creature jumped on fairly abruptly I’m a lot less sure about the wagon. Menalque continues to defend it even though it’s looking shakier by the moment.

Which brings me to this: why is menalque so widely town-read right now?

If it’s because of his “townslip” during RVS, that’s literally nothing. I’ve done something similar as scum and I’ve done it as town too with full intent both times. So I read nothing into that, purely NAI for me. I did not understand why that “slip” dominated the early discussion.

@menalque, what was your initial progression on amrun and why are still so adamant about it?

I don’t know who I’m scum reading right now. I thought amrun’s response to my vote was level headed and made sense. I don’t think my vote was particularly well reasoned. At the very least I don’t like her at L-1 right now.

UNVOTE: amrun

Leaning slightly scum on GL now, but I only skimmed his posts today so I need to go back through him. Creature I’m still leaning scum on slightly.

@amrun, you said earlier this looked like town!creature based on experience. Where are you now with him? I used to think he was easy to sort but I haven’t been here in years.

I mean I'm widely TR bc I think I'm objectively the towniest slot in the game rn

I don't rly think anyone is town reading me for my "not a townslip" vs the fact that I'm actually solving and sorting people, how caught up are you at this point?

I don't think I am still "so adamant" about it and idk why you're characterising it like that when I've actively said that I'm bothered by the wagon speed, I just don't think that amrun is necessarily towny for having played townier since getting wagoned

plus my initial progression on amrun is p clear if you actually read my ISO

I think my initial concerns over her alim vote and her Pret interactions were bad, but tbh Aaron looks scummier now and that's prob +townpoints for amrun

[Menalque]

VOTE: gl because everyone else is too

hmmmm

[Menalque]

I think at this point I'm more confident on this

VOTE: ddl

[Menalque]

I don't rly think anyone is town reading me for my "not a townslip" vs the fact that I'm actually solving and sorting people, how caught up are you at this point?

Would it count if I'm townreading you for your insistence that the supposed townslip wasn't towny?

Purely hypothetical question, of course.

stahp

[Menalque]

@GL do you think 35 was genuine?

Why ask this of GL in particular?

Ask me this again later

Can you answer this yet?

Yes, I wanted to know if he voted dats in 38 for memes or not

I don’t think dats’ thing about there being 3 scum was AI any more than I think me listing 2 scum is AI for me

The fact that he used it to justify a semi serious vote is opportunistic

I think his progression on creature does make sense and while it pings me slightly that he voted Icon > creature his reasons for voting icon are the same things that have me unsure about him atm

Also I like that he didn’t hop onto the ‘mena townslipped’ thing and actively called it out

I mean I think this is me pretty explicitly calling it out as not being real

[Menalque]

How am I tonally different?

[Menalque]

I think at this point I'm more confident on this

VOTE: ddl

I have no issue with this, but anyway you would be willing to compromise on DW?

Not rly I think she’s newb!town

I do wanna see her response to me tho

[Menalque]

VOTE: gl because everyone else is too

Actually I take it back. THIS is the most opportunistic vote in the game.

Okay so how about voting ddl with me then

[Menalque]

Also @sally do u wanna vote ddl with me

[Menalque]

I am ehh about the fact that icon and datisi have both disappeared since I said I was TR/TLing them

[Menalque]

Ok, don’t have much time and posting on phone so forgive the lack of quotes. Also I haven’t read every single post yet.

Ever since GL and Creature jumped on fairly abruptly I’m a lot less sure about the wagon. Menalque continues to defend it even though it’s looking shakier by the moment.

Which brings me to this: why is menalque so widely town-read right now?

If it’s because of his “townslip” during RVS, that’s literally nothing. I’ve done something similar as scum and I’ve done it as town too with full intent both times. So I read nothing into that, purely NAI for me. I did not understand why that “slip” dominated the early discussion.

@menalque, what was your initial progression on amrun and why are still so adamant about it?

I don’t know who I’m scum reading right now. I thought amrun’s response to my vote was level headed and made sense. I don’t think my vote was particularly well reasoned. At the very least I don’t like her at L-1 right now.

UNVOTE: amrun

Leaning slightly scum on GL now, but I only skimmed his posts today so I need to go back through him. Creature I’m still leaning scum on slightly.

@amrun, you said earlier this looked like town!creature based on experience. Where are you now with him? I used to think he was easy to sort but I haven’t been here in years.

I mean I'm widely TR bc I think I'm objectively the towniest slot in the game rn

I don't rly think anyone is town reading me for my "not a townslip" vs the fact that I'm actually solving and sorting people, how caught up are you at this point?

I don't think I am still "so adamant" about it and idk why you're characterising it like that when I've actively said that I'm bothered by the wagon speed, I just don't think that amrun is necessarily towny for having played townier since getting wagoned

plus my initial progression on amrun is p clear if you actually read my ISO

I think my initial concerns over her alim vote and her Pret interactions were bad, but tbh Aaron looks scummier now and that's prob +townpoints for amrun

I also want u to respond to this @dw

[Menalque]

Also @sally do u wanna vote ddl with me

@menal, I intend to but I need to ISO you again because I think I overlooked some of your hundreds of posts lol

What does ISOing me have to do with voting ddl?

[Menalque]

@dw how caught up are you?

[Menalque]

How am I tonally different?

I think primarily you seem more confident in your opinions.

Oh also I don’t rly think this is true but okay

[Menalque]

Oh yeah that makes more sense actually

How caught up are you?

[Menalque]

Such as who?

Also u should reread my ISO because I’m p clearly one of them, as I already said why ddl is scum before you talked about his opportunistic vote

[Menalque]

Oh also I don’t rly think this is true but okay

Maybe not, but you're definitely giving the impression.

Eh *shrug*

[Menalque]

Like I don’t think I am compared to other games, but like if you feel that way there’s not a lot I can do to change your mind

Do you think it’s AI?

[Menalque]

Such as who?

Also u should reread my ISO because I’m p clearly one of them, as I already said why ddl is scum before you talked about his opportunistic vote

Datisi and alim mostly.

I’m looking back on your ddl stuff now.

Were you not talking about alim before?

I don’t know how to word this exactly, but

DDL’s vote on GL is so obviously sheepy

(and admittedly so) that I feel like scum wouldn’t be so stupid as to throw it out there like that. GL felt more gross to me.

Yeah I did have this thought but then he voted texcat like a page later so it doesn’t rly help him

[Menalque]

Do you think it’s AI?

Having no firsthand experience with your scumgame, it's entirely possible that it is.

Would you say that you act more or less confident as scum than you do as town?

More probably

I forget that I’m meant to not know everyone’s alignment

[Menalque]

More probably

I forget that I’m meant to not know everyone’s alignment

Yeah that's what I guessed, and why I was a bit uneasy about you.

But that's minor stuff, I expect my read on you to work itself out eventually.

Mmm, I mean if you genuinely think I’m >my norm confident then that’s probably a valid reason to be wary of me I just don’t think I am

[Menalque]

/don’t think I’m presenting that way

[Menalque]

SS, what do you think of datisi and icon?

[Menalque]

What do you think of the fact that I have a very recent completed game with them and that they both kind of disappeared once I said I was either TRing or TLing them?

Prob less AI for icon due to his standing weekend VLA

[Menalque]

I find the shift in activity uncomfortable

What do you think is bad about dats’ amrun progression?

[Menalque]

@menal: what’s your take on GL right now?

I can't really separate this from his posts over the last page and a half since you asked me this but I think he's p towny tbh

[Menalque]

The reasons given thus far for voting me are all hot garbage.

Even Menalque now thinks her original reasons to vote me were bad.

So therefore, I do think the particular way, and time, in which you voted me was much more likely to come from scum. It’s right in the sweet spot of the wagon I’d expect scum to hop on in a non transparent way.

It’s not because you voted me; I am townreading some of my wagon, after all. It’s the manner in which you did so.

And it’s NOT my policy to push my number one scumread. It entirely depends on gamestate. In this gamestate, your vote did not a single thing to advance the game. It didn’t make me feel more pressured. It didn’t make alimdah feel more pressured. It’s dead weight. It’s noise. That’s where scum love to hang out.

to be clear: I think my reason re: aaronfrost was bad

I think my other two reasons were solid

my reconsideration on you is much more based around gamestate and your recent posting, my original reasons are the biggest things giving me pause on actually TLing you

[Menalque]

it is also pinging me in a bad way that amrun wagon jumped up to like 5 votes within like 5 minutes of me starting it whereas I've been suggesting ddl is scum for like a day and yet there's no play on that wagon whatsoever, despite multiple people saying that they'd compromise there or expressing doubts around his slot

[Menalque]

I’ll be getting to this more tonight, I’ve been busy elsewhere

[Menalque]

it is also pinging me in a bad way that amrun wagon jumped up to like 5 votes within like 5 minutes of me starting it whereas I've been suggesting ddl is scum for like a day and yet there's no play on that wagon whatsoever, despite multiple people saying that they'd compromise there or expressing doubts around his slot

I don't think players like DDL or texcat are good Day 1 lynches. I don't think lynching them would give us a good idea of where other players stand whereas lynching someone else would give us a good idea where they stand.

I’ll say quickly that I disagree with this tho: ddl may not have been as active as amrun or GL but that doesn’t mean that he’s inherently less informative

Regardless of who it is the positioning of people around gives info, but info value is not as good as actually lynching scum

If ddl is the player most likely to flip scum (I think he is) then he’s a good lynch even if he’s not ss spewy as amrun/GL would be regardless of their alignments

[Menalque]

Like I’ll case ddl later but for now it’s worth noting that he’s got 45 posts in which he’s fine basically nothing

[Menalque]

Done*

[Menalque]

Creature is not the worst wagon but ddl is better

[Menalque]

Why are people hopping on creature not on ddl?

Creature is like one of the lowest information and lhf lynched today and I’m not even sold on scum!him

Tell me this: for anything creature has done that’s scummy, has ddl not done the same thing but worse?

[Menalque]

Yes and this is a reason to lynch him why?

[Menalque]

That’s the definition of lhf

Whats worse: not being here at all or being here and doing exactly nothing? Which is what ddl has been doing

[Menalque]

Tell me this: for anything creature has done that’s scummy, has ddl not done the same thing but worse?

Being generally absent is (or at least used to be) a scumtell for Creature in a way that it's not for most people.

Granted I don't know if this is still true and I have heard that his scum and town games have gotten more similar recently.

This is not a scum tell for creature anymore and it hasn’t been for literally months I think

[Menalque]

Also purely from wagon POV he’s had 4 votes in 2 pages plus amrun at least saying she’s willing to compromise on him

[Menalque]

That’s the definition of lhf

You misunderstand then. It's a meta read.

Classic Creature meta, circa a year or two ago, was (roughly) "if he's posting, he's town."

The key words being “cerca a year or two ago”

[Menalque]

VOTE: texcat
After meh scrolling through some iso

What's the counter against my taxact vote

Wanna do texcat w me?

Yes that hard texcat push how did I miss the conviction in these posts

[Menalque]

I'm not yet invested in this game I guess

its funny because im above median in post count

Like ddl has been around and yet has been offering us an absolute minimum in terms of substance

He’s here enough to offer excuses or justifications, and if he’s here enough to do that I think town!him would be doing something more substantial as well

[Menalque]

I’d also compromise on DDL. DDL is here and voting/talking at least, whereas creature is being willfully obstinate.

And idk of ego boost or what but I felt slightly better about my last interaction with DDL.

Creature will probably either be back or we’ll get a replacement in which case the slot will be clearer to resd

Either way it’s a bad lynch for todsy

[Menalque]

The key words being “cerca a year or two ago”

What's your point? That's when the majority of my Creature experience is from. I've made a clear invitation for anyone who's played with him more recently to let me know if it's still true.

that’s exactly what I’m doing rn??

[Menalque]

you're moving the goalposts now - there may not be conviction but it certainly counts as doing something especially since that was a novel attempt at another wagon at that stage in the game. He also re-joined Amrun later which is also a significant move game-state wise

My point is that it’s not really an attempt at another wagon

because

of the lack of conviction

So it still is de facto doing nothing while attempting to give the semblance of doing something

Whats towny about the re-limp onto amrun? I think that’s entirely NAI

[Menalque]

Also I genuinely think that creature’s ISO is better than ddl’s

I don’t think it’s towncsse worthy but when I’m on my laptop later I’m willing to show what’s good about it imo

[Menalque]

DDL is playing like he did in fortnite: being useless.

Problem is so is half of the playerbase.

DDL flip gives us NOTHING

HOW ARE YOU MAKING THIS ARGUMENT WHILE VOTING

CREATURE

[Menalque]

If that’s your argument like

What

Pray tell

Do you think we get from a creature lynch that we don’t get from a ddl lynch?

[Menalque]

that’s exactly what I’m doing rn??

Yes I see, I missed 812 in the flurry of posts, my bad.

What exactly changed in his meta?

I can try to dig it up but basically he got lurkier as town (see: Pokemon ruby, there was a newbie he repped out of, p sure it was 1949, nomination Mafia)

[Menalque]

I think hyperposting is still probably +townpoints for creature but I think him being a lurksack is p NAI now

[Menalque]

DDL is playing like he did in fortnite: being useless.

Problem is so is half of the playerbase.

DDL flip gives us NOTHING

HOW ARE YOU MAKING THIS ARGUMENT WHILE VOTING

CREATURE

HE WAS A TOWNREAD OF MINE AND WAS ACTIVELY PLAYING AT FIRST THEN VANISHED OFF THE FACE OF THE EARTH. THAT ISNT TOWN.

Also Im not lynching DDL despite meta being trash.

Why is disappearing scum indicative when I just cited THREE (3!?!?) examples of him being a lurksack as town

[Menalque]

Why has his inactivity undermined whatever it was that initially made you think he was towny @sally

[Menalque]

Regardless my more in-depth thoughts on Creature are basically "there's some chance that I'd be able to confidently call Creature town by this point, and I can't, so it raises the odds of him being scum."

For the record the above also applies to you Menalque but it's a lot weaker because I have gotten very fast and accurate townreads on him whereas I have not on you.

Like if you can’t confidently call me town by this point then idk what I can do for you really

I think I’m as towny by now as I have been in multiple other recent games we’ve had together

[Menalque]

I’ll get through and find what exactly the ddl lynch gives me once I’m pushing it harder

But basically it’s meeting a lot of resistance, IMO more than anyone so far and that gives me good vibes

Probably the vice versa of what you just said, ie +scum on you and SS

Plus it basically locktowns me

[Menalque]

Conftowns me*

[Menalque]

I’d also compromise on DDL. DDL is here and voting/talking at least, whereas creature is being willfully obstinate.

And idk of ego boost or what but I felt slightly better about my last interaction with DDL.

Creature will probably either be back or we’ll get a replacement in which case the slot will be clearer to resd

Either way it’s a bad lynch for todsy

I would prefer to lynch elsewhere, as stated earlier, but as time goes on and he continues to fuck off I care less and less.

How about voting ddl with me

[Menalque]

@GL: Because ew. Why would you ask for towncred like that? I was actually thinking you would improve on a red creature flip and now I don’t, because it reads like a bus.

@all: Creature is posting elsewhere on site FWIW

P-edit: I can be spiritually on DDL as well. I’m willing to vote on that wagon.

i like you, menalque, but do you get tired of sounding like a broken record

Only when I’m wrong

[Menalque]

I like you too ddl tbf

I just think you have a red role pm

Why do you think it’s so hard to get votes on you if you’re town and what does that say about the gamestate?

[Menalque]

@amrun how about being physically on it instead

[Menalque]

Also tbf I’m not convinced scum quite so brazenly asks for towncred after a redflip if they’re bussing, I think they wait for a townie to give it to them

[Menalque]

And like I specifically think that’s likely based on who I think GL is as a player

[Menalque]

I will make this the wagon competing with yours but i need actual votes on it instead of promises of support

[Menalque]

give me town cred, I’m the one who found scum!

Reading the names of your buddies in your role PM doesn't count.

It does if I bus them

Shit SS, he’s gonna vote one of us

[Menalque]

Is there really no other reasoning you've kept your vote on GL, @texcat? Nothing else from him you find AI one way or the other?

VOTE: Creature

I don't wanna flip GL. I'm still okay going back to Amrun if possible, but I'm definitely not impressed by Creature so far either.

This is scum

Go on

[Menalque]

Although we’re not lynching datisi today either way

[Menalque]

Right

SS, whats it gonna take to get you to move onto ddl?

You said you weren’t particularly a fan of amrun or GL and that that was your main reason for being on creature

[Menalque]

@pret how about we lynch ddl today and then I’ll give you townpoints for helping me if he flips red and we can maybe do datisi tomorrow?

[Menalque]

Okay.

VOTE: Daitsi

The posts are saying a lot of nothing, they were the first on Amawesome, they immediately went to creature.

And they’re asking fluff questions and staying under the radar.

Why are her Qs fluff Qs?

[Menalque]

Like I have a high confidence in getting to a correct read on datisi (ftr I’ve read here right every game we’ve had together since our first) and I don’t see scum her yet

Like maybe a little from the hesitance to be in thread but she’s still a tonal TL so I’m not willing to go there today

[Menalque]

The posts are saying a lot of nothing

This usually isn't a scumtell q.q

It is when they’re posting in a way that makes it look like something

I mean if this is your objection to datisi go and look at ddl’s ISO

[Menalque]

Datisi


Would u do something for me

[Menalque]

There seems to be some loud voices determined to not see Creature voted...

I mean it’s basically just me

[Menalque]

lemme guess, vote DDL?

I love it when u read my mind

[Menalque]

There seems to be some loud voices determined to not see Creature voted...

indeed

Menalque do you really think Creature is town or are you just so much more confident in your DDL read that you're trying to derail any and all other wagons

cause frankly where was this passionate defense when it was me getting votes and not Creature

I think ddl is the scummiest slot in the game

I think he’s scummier than creature

When you were getting wagoned I just wasn’t around to effort here and you didn’t seem that in danger of getting lynched

[Menalque]

you didn’t seem that in danger of getting lynched

GL was L-2 and Creature has never been higher than L-4...

Deadline was much further away and he felt stalled whereas creature momentum felt like it was accelerating

[Menalque]

Datisi

[Menalque]

I rly wanna lynch ddl

[Menalque]

Ugh

Okay

[Menalque]

Dogwatch
Iconeum

DrDolittle

alimdia
Texcat
AaronFrost

Probably in this list. Not exactly sure where.

Look, found one

[Menalque]

Pretentious who is Datisis’s buddies and would you vote them today?

Bc he was clearly responding to this?

[Menalque]

lol wtf did you people do while I was gone

[Menalque]

Who’s top wagon?

[Menalque]

intent -4 hrs

[Menalque]

This is fucking dumb tho

[Menalque]

Everyone: let’s lynch someone who hasn’t done anything
Mena: hey that’s literally ddl too nobody finds it suspicious that creature picked up like 6 votes across about 3 pages or whatever and ddl won’t go past 2?
Everyone:....
Creature: turns up and does stuff (like I don’t need to read it, I can see he’s doubled his post count since yesterday)
Everyone:...
Everyone: yeah let’s lynch creature anyway