Doubles Mafia Day 2/ Day 2

[mastina]

hardclaiming masons with firebringer and bitmap

In the Christmas votecount there is an empty line above "With 9 Alive, it is 5 to Lynch or No Lynch!" and it is aesthetically unpleasing.

I like my game's playerlist way more than the other one so I propose we just hang about on day 1 while spectating the other game

Town.

I already regret joining this...

I feel cheated. I want halloween. Christmas can go to hell.

Town?

hrm
if we're not actually doing 3 houses theme i'll just play on my main if thats ok

Hello!
-Stuxnet
(Yeah yeah it's not a Trojan Horse but w/e)

H-Halloween???
B-but October is so far away!
So is December but I'm not in a Christmas game..

Scum?

[mastina]

Let's put that into a readslist, shall we?

We are not helping
jjh
DrDolittle

SirCakez
Elmo teh AzN


gobbledygook
Baezu
Amrun
northsidegal
Shuichi Saihara

Jormungand
Lie Ren
BBMolla
Wonderwall

Bernadetta
Trojan Horses
RadiantCowbells

Locktown, strong town, weak town, null, scum.

[mastina]

Also, did check the rules and from the sound of it, this isn't 2-2 with scum having one scumbuddy and not knowing the other team allowing them to have some semblance of legitimate scumhunting; it sounds like four groupscum, so take that into account. (I am also guessing that means only one nightkill from them each night.) It also sounds like we don't need to lynch two scum from our own game, so long as two scum die? I could be mistaken but it sounds like this game has a white flag mechanic where two scum dead = we win, period.

[mastina]

you don't actually scumread me, but if you're trying to start a fight you can have one.

Actually you got that backwards--I do scumread you but I've no interest in a fight. I'd vote you but I wouldn't push you, would be more or less just a vote I'd put out there for a sake of a vote/for lack of better options. Legit think your approach so far is more likely to be from you as scum, but I am fully aware that pushing that angle so early would be entirely unproductive. Doesn't stop me from stating the scumread tho.

[mastina]

I don't believe you. But say what you want.

I mean I don't exactly have a way to show you my brain's thought process and that's literally the only place where proof exists but like.

Not lying. Dead serious.

So like.

Go ahead and doubt me, that doesn't mean your doubt is actually correct because. I know what I think and I think your play this game is more likely to come from you as scum than town, and yet it should be stupidly obvious why pushing you in spite of having that belief would be a waste of time. (Namely because if you're town you're dead via nightkill before D3, and also because if you're town you'll give me something that I'll read as town eventually. Plus, would add a lot of noise which is something that I don't see any way of it not being disastrous for the gamestate's health.)

[mastina]

Also, nice to see Mastina is town...town wins!

What makes Mastina town this early

My role PM.

[mastina]

Mastina what about RC’s play makes you think he is scum

[mastina]

(vollkan has one of the best avatars ever and I hope it never changes.)

[mastina]

You stole her shtick!

Well, I wasn't gonna, so

someone

needed to.

[mastina]

Just to be clear I'm serious about effectively spectating the other game in order to preserve our playerlist

Spectating as in, not giving thoughts but reading, or spectating as in, giving thoughts in spite of not being a part of it?

The former sounds like an incredibly bad idea because uhhhh...yeah if my understanding of the game mechanics is right, you can be doing quite fine in your own game but if the town gets endgamed in the other game, you ALSO lose?

The latter tho, that's pretty much exactly what we should be doing, because, uhhh, yeah, if my understanding of the game mechanics is right, you need to make sure both games are doing fine, plus, it doesn't even require two scum in your game to die; it just requires two scum dead, period. So if both towns kill a scum, and fourteen heads for finding scum are better than seven (well, in

theory

, at least...), then town endgames the scum.

At least if I understood correctly.

[mastina]

I thought we were going to be friends
I see this isn't the case.

Friends don’t let friends that are scum live long

VOTE: NSG
shes playing to her scum meta

my world has been flipped upside down

Just wanted to instantly townbloc y'all. <3

[mastina]

mastina go give gobble his title

Soon!

are you going to only post in one liners

Only? No. Mostly? Yes.

I have a thought I want to voice to explain that in more detail but for the life of me, I can't figure out to explain it, but basically--I want to do that because it'll just be better, at least for the early game.

[mastina]

even though you're scum it's nice to play with you mastina

The pleasure is all mine since I'll be nightkilled ages before you due to not being scum and radiating an aura of threatening presence warranting my death. (Am I a N1 nightkill? No, almost assuredly not, but I just have a

feeling

that scum will kill me before the end of the game. I have a very specific reason for feeling that way, too, but I shouldn't voice that reason because it'd be anti-town to have done so, already have hinted at it but basically, is related to the setup. I think the setup specifically will incentivize scum to kill me before lylo hits.)

On that note, to get the ball rolling, updated readslist:
We are not helping
gobbledygook
BBMolla
jjh
SirCakez
DrDolittle

Elmo teh AzN

Baezu

Amrun
Shuichi Saihara

northsidegal
Trojan Horses
Jormungand
Lie Ren
Wonderwall

Bernadetta
RadiantCowbells

100% locktown, strong town, weak town, nulltown, null, scum.

For mental reference, the half I can vote is,
gobbledygook
BBMolla
jjh
DrDolittle

Elmo teh AzN

Amrun

northsidegal
Wonderwall

...Which is easy enough, poe, nsg + Wonderwall are the scumteam on my half.
VOTE: Wonderwall.

[mastina]

And yes--legit do think our half is mostly really just that easy.
Turkey here is immediately, very obviously town here.
BBMolla is just town here.
jjh is almost assuredly town--even if not, he can't keep up the obvtownness he's radiating now indefinitely.
And I'm pretty sure that this is DDL as town.

And I think Elmo is probably town, so.

Three slots, for two scum. Could be any combination of the three, but my instant gutlock reaction educated guestimate is nsg+Wonderwall, sooooo.

[mastina]

mastina go give gobble his title

Soon!

It is done.

[mastina]

Mastina if you try to call NSG scum when I am not calling her scum thats going to go very badly

Hey she's not a scumread, she's just not a townread in a game where I have a townread on 5/8 of the slots in my game where via poe there's only three possible scum slots which she happens to be among.

[mastina]

this seems like a really good way to create personality conflicts and given your team in TM had no qualms about abetting personality conflicts to win the normal I'm not putting it even slightly past you to be doing this deliberately to destroy town unity because that is objectively what shitting on half of the players in a game accomplishes

Is this talking to me?

If so, then uh.

I had literally nothing to do with my team in any of my games. Never read any of the games other than my own, never contributed, heck, I never read my team's PT contributions to their games. I had absolutely zero to do anything with them and I am not Pine, kuribo, or Xtoxm.

So if you were talking to me, trying to compare me to them does you zero favors.

tcalling RC and NSG both scums to prevent us potentially mutually townreading each other and making us both impossible mislynches?

manufacturing drama by calling a bunch of players shitty people to play with?

this isn't okay. and i have never known you as a player who deliberately stirs toxicity and that is exactly what you are doing right now.

Like, your first statement here seems to be directed at me since I stated a scumread on you and put nsg at near the bottom of my readslist, but the bolded, I haven't done this game. Nor have I ever done it as far as I can remember. I'll happily call players who I think are shitty scumhunters, shitty scumhunters (I see nothing wrong with saying that someone who isn't a strong scumhunter, isn't a strong scumhunter; that's just stating the truth), but I can't recall ever calling someone a shitty person that's shitty to play with. (Like, I tolerate playing with people like Yume when many many many others cannot. I legit don't think I've ever said someone was a shitty person that's shitty to play with.)

Down to blindly sheep Mastina. Mastina, who should I vote for?

Bernadetta, obv.

[mastina]

RC Mastina pulled the whole “I read the rules so I know this thing about scum” and 9/10 it comes from scum trying to get Town cred

You apparently haven't been reading my towngames as of late.

I didn't read the game rules initially, I read them only after the game had begun because I was checking on something and was a bit confused when the mechanics in play didn't seem to match what mechanics I thought were in place.

And since I have read the game mechanics, I'm pretty sure I actually know what the setup is if I am understanding them correctly, which is why I am approaching things the way I am. (I have a fairly good idea what Jingle's tendencies as a setup designer/mod are so I think I have a good read on the game but obviously, not something I intend to elaborate on until/unless we have a massclaim since I have a damn good idea of what roles will and won't be in the game. jjh probably has a decent guess at what I deduced, too, if he's town like I am generally assuming, since it's really not that hard to have guessed.)

[mastina]

This game feels too easy, actually

It does, actually. Kinda boring, to be honest--I'm trying to find ways to generate fun since I legit feel the game's been close to solved in less than eight pages.

It's obviously not fully fully solved, but like. I feel like we're just waiting for people to show up and all agree on what's already obvious right now, and then to refine, hone in, on perfection so to speak, closer to the time when we need to, so like.

Just chilling right now.

[mastina]

Wanna try figuring out who we are?

I generally assume any anonymous hydra onsite nowadays probably contains Krazy.

You'll be hard-pressed to convince me someone in your hydra isn't Krazy even if nobody in your hydra actually is, it's just drilled into my brain that unless there's two anonymous hydras in the same game,

every

anonymous hydra has one head as Krazy. (And in the case of 2+ anonymous hydras in a game, one be Krazy anyway.)

[mastina]

Also, I be lazy as fuck.
Stuxnet uses mostly proper capitalization and such, but does use abbreviations and emotes and uses ':3' which narrows it down a lot but I be too lazy to think about scummers who fit that.
zeus refuses to use proper capitalization and such, is casual, uses chatspeakesque abbreviations, which narrows it down a lot but I be too lazy to think about scummers who fit that.

If I put in the effort to think about scummers who're active and on Krazy's mafiascum discord (because let's face it, 80% of hydras come from conversations on there anyway especially anonymous ones), just that criteria would be enough to narrow it down especially if I sifted through the logs of the main channel to find people who were chatting with each other and express the interest of "we should hydra together". Would be really really easy to do, it'd just require a shitload of effort and again, I be lazy as fuck.

[mastina]

I think that if you're claiming that you have reads this certain 7 pages in there's something really wrong with your thinking process.

There's a difference between having reads this certain in 7 pages in any given game, in general, generically...

...And having reads this certain in 7 pages in

this specific

game.

In this specific game, fuck yes, I feel that there's very damn good reads to be had off of 7 pages, reads that for D1 are exceptionally good--not perfect reads, of course, because it's D1, but right now I feel like we have better reads available from 7 pages, than most games have by the last day of D1 when there's less than 24 hours until deadline.

And frankly if you don't think these 7 pages contain enough information to get us a very damn good head start on solving the game, then there's something really wrong with

your

thinking process.

Do I think I have perfect reads or that perfect reads are possible right now?

Of course not!

Do I think we have enough information to,

for D1

, have a DAMN good starter solve?
Yes, yes I do.

[mastina]

I’m legit worried that scum have like stupid high numbers to counteract this very townsided wincondition

I can put your fears aside by explaining what I think the setup is, but I probably still shouldn't.

Who btw is just null rn all of this is well within both their town and scum meta

Actually by now I am well out of my practical scum range. Still in my

theoretical

scumrange, sure, but out of my practical scum range.

Mastina, on what basis did you bucket non-posters to weak town?

Glad you asked! It's easy. Quite simple, really.
I look at the people who haven't posted.
I analyze what I know about the players in question, and then I decide if their lack of posting is something more likely to be from town or scum or if it is null.
Then, among those that it is null for, I further sort them by using the tool of,

Jormen is posting elsewhere on site

That slot does have fairly high scum equity but like, it's not in my game so I can't vote it.

I'm not a big fan of mastina going straight towards both our paragons combined with this when they barely posted any content.

They haven't even done anything. NSG barely posted and RC is just doing RC stuff.

Precisely. It is specifically because they have barely posted any content, as paragons. That, plus gut on thinking how they'd approach as scum.

can someone tell me what to do thanks

Vote Wonderwall.

[mastina]

any mastina thoughts?

Sure! I don't really care about the slip, Turkey's town regardless of it, but for what it's worth I think it's a real townslip anyway.

[mastina]

so you can either lynch me because I am scum accusing your correct reads or you can agree that these reads might be wrong

None of those reads are wrong because I am town and Turkey is town and jjh is town.

Does that mean Trojan Horses are town, no, not necessarily, but if they're scum it's not for those reads being wrong to say the least.

(For the record, Trojan Horses is very much an ambivalent read that sits solidly at null; I don't have a townread there but don't have a scumread there either and most of my thoughts are wavering between 'this is town, no wait it is not, no wait maybe it is', and 'this is scum, no wait it is not, no wait maybe it is'.)

Also now I legit am thinking nsg might just actually be scum here since her content has looked less than stellar.

[mastina]

{RC, Trojan, We are not helping, SirCakez} probably a good town core for Halloween

SirCakez and We are not helping are definite yeses.
Trojan is a possible yes.
I would not say yes to RC. If you needed to force a fourth I'd put forward Baezu but I admit my townread there isn't strong enough to warrant that and I'd keep it to the 2-3.

{Elmo, BBmolla} good scum core for Christmas?

Noooooo, not even remotely close. Molla's town here and Elmo's entrance into the game radiated town to me--not enough to locktown Elmo, but enough where she's not someone who I'd want to try and lynch on D1 barring an extreme shift. {nsg, Wonderwall, Amrun} are a much much much better grouping.

[mastina]

I would like to announce something so shocking that all of your pants are going to fall off: Masinta is scum this game.

Legit surprised you got it wrong, FB.

[mastina]

I want to shake this tree. I feel his pop-in and pop-out earlier without dropping any content were scummy af and everyone ignored it mostly

Hey I said the slot had high scum equity, that's something. Still feel that holds true, it's one of the most likely slots to just be outright scum.

[mastina]

IS THIS THE LEGENDARY SCUM!RC PRETENDING HE IS APATHETC.

Hey man, you won't hear me arguing otherwise considering I think RC's scum, so.

[mastina]

mastina explanation of reads was trash.

Right, I should elaborate more on this then.

Trojan Horses is a slot who some of their posts make me think they could be scum but lots of their posts make me think that they should be town, but I am always second-guessing myself on it and wondering, "but wait, maybe it isn't", coming across mostly as just an all-around null slot. I'm kinda thinking of just going fuckit on the read and calling them town anyway though, since that seems to be a read that I can get behind, the people who I'm suspicious of are pretty much the only ones not really seeing them as town as far as I can tell, which is a promising sign. Plus, I lack enough townreads on this side so having them as a townread for sanity's sake would be helpful.

We are not helping was instantly town and has continued to be immensely town at every step of the way. Everything they are doing radiates town so like. They're just town.

Bernadetta is just outright scum here--the game isn't so much "find two scum in that game", it's "find who is Bernadetta's scumbuddy" because Bernadetta is pretty painfully obviously just scum here.

RadiantCowbell's content this game has been incredibly manipulative, he lacks aura he exudes as town, he's been doing a fair amount of projection saying "don't get toxic" when he's the closest thing this game has to a toxic player, his "scumhunting" this game so far has been dismal, and all-around he's one of the top candidates for being her scumbuddy.

Turkey is painfully obviously town. Beyond the multiple townslips in succession, which you can argue were faked (they weren't), even besides that, Turkey has this aura he exudes when he is town and it is on full display here. That certain fire, that unique presence, that good logic, that reasonable conclusions, he's just all-around altogether on top town form this game.

jjh is on the same wavelength as me and instantly that means he is immensely more likely to be town. He's saying all the right things, pushing in all the right places, he's just overwhelmingly likely to be town. He can fake this for one day as scum, but I think that his fake has a limit and this is beyond that, and even if not, well, if it continues into future days, there be the proof of it being him as town anyway.

Amrun's done nothing this game and is immediately a suspect for it--yes, she's got some excuses and they are good justifications for having not done something, but I still feel like she has a significant chance of being scum, not only from what she has(n't) done, but also, just by the sheer POE of almost everyone in her side of the game being town.

BBMolla's someone who I have known for a long long time and I am like 90+% sure that this is him as town. It seems instantly obvious to me, because of what he's done, his approach, his attitude, it all just feels like he's doing his normal town things.

Lie Ren has done nothing and is thus null--but due to being on the side of the game where there's a few likely scum candidates, I'm just going to more or less assume the slot is town for my sanity. (See also, Trojan Horses.)

Wonderwall's content has immediately pinged me as more likely to come from them as scum than town. I lowkey suspect that Menalque is burned out from getting too many scum role PMs, and his play this game looks like he has done precisely that; gotten burned out, struggling to care, struggling to stay invested in his alignment, and if he were town I would expect there to be an energy to him finally not being scum. Plus, there's the whole general lack of Alisae.

Jormungand is singlehandedly the one reason why RC could be town here, by virtue of Jormungand just being very very very incredibly likely to be scum from their content in the game thusfar.

Elmo, mentioned it already--I thought her entrance into the game radiated town and this is just a strong gut read.

Dr. Dolittle, mostly gut, but what DDL's doing just doesn't feel like him as scum.

Baezu, I liked Baezu's entrance into the game and what Baezu has done thusfar. Not enough to be locktown, but enough to be a townread.

SirCakez is also pretty damn painfully obviously town. His contributions, his analysis, his thoughts, his process, his aura, everything he is doing, pushing, just feels like it is in the right mindset, where even if his reads/reasons aren't right, their sincerity and genuineness means it's probably not from him as scum. Admittedly, he's a strong scum player, but I just don't think what he's doing is him as scum.

Eh these are probably still not as good as they should be but hey, more than I had before!

[mastina]

Oh god.
I thought this was a split game but it's actually 2 games merged into one thread.

^My scumread on this slot should warrant no need for explanation.

[mastina]

She actually isn't making me suffer this game.

And like.
Again.

I'm pretty dumbfounded by this because I'm pretty fucking sure I'm being an annoying little fuck.

RC certainly seems to be ticked at me and Bitmap seems irked at me so like. Why them and not you? I don't have a clue.

[mastina]

what if I am scum and got it wrong on purpose MASTINA?!?!?!?!

Well normally if it was just your slot playing, I'd think that, sure!

But like.

Your other heads obvtowned you, so like.

I know you're not scum, which is why there's the surprise.

The me of this game, I know isn't the most typical town me, and I do recognize some partial overlaps with scumastina--but I also can just feel that this is still very much me as town, still very much radiating the aura. I know what I am exuding and while what I am radiating isn't identical to the normal me, it is still an aura of a town me. A less commonly seen town me, but still very much me as town.

[mastina]

I could also vote Wonderwall

That's where I'm voting!

Mastina give me a title or I'll have to start scumreading you

I mean I'd be happy to but like. You haven't asked for one in the appropriate thread. (I can't exactly quote from this game into the title fairy thread to demonstrate why I am titling someone, now, can I? )

[mastina]

mastina are these your actual reads or are these your "lets get out of rvs" reads

Actual reads--this game skipped the "let's get out of rvs" stage by virtue of people making themselves immensely town and a few people immediately sticking out as sketchy, in such a short timeframe.

[mastina]

I am pretty sure its cause ur scum. Its like my inner intuition just knows.

Yes well.
I'll be flipping town.
I could of course pull a Garmr and quote my role PM and then eat a modkill and site ban to prove it to you right here and now but since nobody wants that, you'll just have to wait for it because it will happen. Doesn't matter if you say it won't because you're so sure I'm scum. I'm not so you're just actually wrong.

And on that note.

I just remembered that this IS a Jingle game, and per his very very loose rules.
I actually can pretty much pull a Garmr, but without eating either a modkill or a ban.
On Saturday, April 4th, very shortly after 8 pm, Jingle sent me this PM, copy-pasted from the view, so I'm not including the code or anything which means this isn't provably quoting mod information:
Welcome, mastina, to Doubles Mafia. You have chosen to be a part of Game Christmas.

You are a (role redacted, not gonna roleclaim needlessly), with all the rights and responsibilities implied by such a powerful station. You may address your fellow players at any time, day or night, in the game thread, located here, as long as you are alive.

You, and the rest of the TOWN faction, win when at least two members of the MAFIA faction are dead, regardless of whether they were players in your game. Please confirm by PMing my your role name and the name of the game you are in.

Did make the redaction to the role, did not include the formatting, but like. This be what I got, so like.
You're just outright wrong here because I am town.

[mastina]

Mastina what aura does scum!mastina radiate?

Well, cheeky scumfuckery, but that can be a bit hard to reliably pin down because I am very very very frequently a cheeky townfuck who radiates that aura of cheekiness as town, too.

But beyond the cheeky scumfuck aura, there's also radiating the aura of being artificial, cool, calm, collected, of being calculated, precise, of being meticulous and manipulative, making just as much movements as is necessary. Lurks a lot, posts less often, less frequently, posts only when she needs to rather than whenever she feels like it, is less invested in front and more invested behind the scenes.

Also as of late, scumastina radiates an aura of laziness and apathy and is more or less, not really trying too hard because she doesn't really feel the need to play to her fullest, she's got nothing to prove as scum.

Now admittedly, as town I have been trying (to rather good success) to channel some of the more calm, collected, calculated, precise posting as town, but like. There aint a towngame in existence where I actually put it off in the entirety of what I was aiming for, I'm just too scatterbrained, too bored, too invested, to make it happen.

[mastina]

Why am I more likely to be burned out scum than burned out town?

Because of how many scum role PMs you've had recently and how high-effort they were (the Normal Game you literally just finished comes to mind where you had to duke it out in a very very close 3p lylo where you by all rights should've been instalynched due to a role guilty and had to convince the town that wasn't the case more or less, but also recently was Team Mafia where you were the only one on your team who could carry even if you did end up getting guilty'd), and as far as I know, no such similar situations existing in towngames. I've not seen you get an excessively large number of town role PMs and have multiple games of those be stressful; quite the opposite, I've barely seen you as town recently but when you were you were pretty relaxed.

Also why do you think lack of ali is telling?

Because I know Alisae has been around the site multiple multiple times and probably has even communicated to you in regards to this game and such.

[mastina]

UHHH I THINK INTRODUCING TIME STAMPS IS OUT OF GAME INFLUENCE HERE MASTINA
I MAY HAVE DONE THAT AND GOT WARNED IN A PRIOR GAME
JUST A HEADS UP

I didn't include the timestamp down to the second, just that it was shortly after 8 pm. Also, this is Jingle. I know I can get away with it because I have gotten away with it before. He didn't modkill me last time, and even said what I did was, explicitly, per his rules, legal and allowed, so I know I'm fine to have done it this time, too.

[mastina]

i'm going to make a prediction – if we don't win this game within the first few days, we are certainly going to lose.

I mean, I feel like the game is close to solved right now.

With it close to solved, right now, later content will only be muddying up the waters, making things more murky, less clear, than they are now, so like.

Easy prediction to make there.

[mastina]

iirc you get really scummy in late game when you're scum

Oh yeah, definitely. Like, I can get more scummy later in the game as town if I have a massive mental health dive, massive physical dive in availabilty, am around less, am motivated less, etc., but like. Almost every single game I get more and more obviously town as town the later the game goes and more and more obviously scum as scum the later the game goes.

[mastina]

i am in a hood with a player that is not in my game btw

Uh huh.
Do tell.

'Cause I call bullshit on this.

[mastina]

someone in this game told me that this was scum indicative (not in this game, this kind of stuff in general)

Was it me?

I feel like it was me, because calling that kind of content scum-indicative feels like something I'd do and I'd be hard-pressed to argue otherwise this game. (That is to say, Suichi's entrance does not impress.)

[mastina]

Does anyone know who Shuichi Saihara is? More specifically, does Mastina?

You'd think that'd be a simple yes or no question, but it turns out it isn't.
At some point, I was made aware of who Shuichi Saihara is. A scummer, I think maybe Alisae, in a thread I was reading, posted the identities of a few DR alts, Shuichi Saihara among them, where they said, "Suichi = (scummer)".

I don't remember the scummer that Suichi was revealed to be, tho. So, in theory, yes, I know, I have the information in the depths of my brain. In reality, no, because I forgot.

[mastina]

I'm fine with everyone starting the game by townreading active people but I'm not convinced jormun lie Amrun Elmo is 4 scum right now

Sure isn't!
May I present to you the alternative pool of,

{Jormun, Shuichi, RadiantCowbells, Bernadetta}, {Amrun, northsidegal, Wonderwall}?

Now

that

grouping sure looks like it contains the four scum. I realize it's not exactly four names, two names in two games, that I've got seven total which is two too many in one game, one too many in the other, three too many in total, butstill, I like my pool a lot more.

[mastina]

Answer the horses’ 651

What's there to answer about it?

I look at the people who haven't posted.
I analyze what I know about the players in question, and then I decide if their lack of posting is something more likely to be from town or scum or if it is null. What I knew about Shuichi Saihara was, "I have read who this is an alt of before, but I do not remember who it is; I remember it is an alt of a scummer with a decent amount of experience, but not which scummer it was. Might be a logical scummer." That is what I knew about Shuichi at the time I made that list.

I guessed at what alignment that would make the lack of posting be--my analysis of that sort of player is that they are more likely to make delayed entrances, thus, slightly more likely to be town, pending their posts, obviously.

This is pretty self-explanatory so like.

Really.
I don't see why this was a question which was worth answering because it is pretty stupidly obvious what the train of thought there is.

[mastina]

Mastina and JJH

Nice story.

Too bad my read on Trojan is explicitly not townlock.

The closest Trojan comes to being a townlock is as a for-my-sanity-townread in a side that has too many slots I'm scumreading so someone needs to be town. And while that'd put Trojan above null due to sanity's sake, that aint townlock, that aint townblock.

[mastina]

I do agree with the statement that if Mastina is scum vs an NSG AND RC town team her MO has to be to corral people who support her and shade RC/NSG in order to have any chance.

Mate I don't shade. Period. If I think someone is scum, I will call them scum. If I am scum, then I fake this process. (Well, when I so choose. I usually am just...not bothering to do so as scum these days because I've been finding I simply don't need to. No, really. Legit serious, these days as scum I've found I don't even need to give scumreads, and I still get away with a surprisingly large amount of shit.)

There is value to be had in paragons being alive, if they are town--but they wouldn't be paragons if they were rattled, if they were shaken, by an incorrect scumread on their slot. They wouldn't be paragons if someone incorrectly scumreading them threw them off their beat, threw them off their kilter, kept them from putting in a paragon-level performance.

And there is value to be had in paragons being alive, if they are town--but if they

aren't

town, then why the fuck would I fear pushing scum just off of the value of "what if they're town", given the above? Given that being erroneously scumread shouldn't rattle, shouldn't shake, a paragon winner, there's no reason not to state a scumread on one.

Granted, I have reasonably good reasons to not push the read on RC. He's not in my game so I can't even vote him; there's enough scumspects in his game that given only two of them are scum there's a fair chance that he is town; fighting with RC on D1 is unproductive because even if he is scum he's not getting lynched D1; if RC is town then the scum will nightkill him eventually anyway. All these make it so that I don't really have interest in pushing RC, but that sure as fuck won't stop me from stating a scumread there.

[mastina]

NSG is just scum and everyone should know that by now
But it feels like cheating for that to be half of our win condition so let's leave her alive

I mean, my reads are clear enough with her as one of the poe scum.

So like.

Ya won't hear me arguing otherwise.

[mastina]

Well then, what makes this game special?

What makes any game be special?

Unique combination of players, their alignments/roles, the game moderator's choice on how to handle the game, the setup, the mechanics, all form a perfect storm to make something magical--most games have

something

special to them due to these factors combining to make something unique, and in this game, it was the feeling of the game being close to solved by page seven.

[mastina]

Still think mastina probably scum but I’m not the best at reading her tbh

Clearly.

[mastina]

but it seems like Christmas starting townblock is something like
Bbmolla, Gobbles, NSG

The inclusion of nsg is laughable but like. It should be painfully obvious that Turkey and Molla are both town. This is not groundbreaking news.

[mastina]

I’m just not feeling Town Mastina this game which is sad.

You're a bloody idiot then.

[mastina]

And Dolittle's ISO is really crap. I challenge anyone to find anything remotely town in there.

Experience with DDL as a player--have you played with him before? If so, then you'd know that DDL is like this every game.

Since he is like this every game, what makes him town here instead of null, though? That amounts to mostly gut involving DDL's opener in this game;

im excited to be able to sheep illustrious players like gobbles and baezu this game

can someone tell me what to do thanks

And these are what immediately struck me as town, because they just felt like an entrance that DDL wouldn't make as scum.

[mastina]

wonderwall shading me is cracking me up

I mean, they're scum, so.

[mastina]

btw Wonderwall buddying rc here is obvscum move

I mean, yes, but I wouldn't say it makes RC town here.

[mastina]

Mastina, I'd like you to elaborate on this read. Seeing as most of the game finds him obvtown I might be wrong and just not seeing it, but can you actually show sincerity/genuineness in his posts that's not trivially faked by scum? Can you put his mindset into words and show me how that's very likely to be a town one?

Ehhh...I mentally mapped out a response to this earlier when I was reading offline and had it in there, but I am way, way, wayyyy too dead-mentally (as you can probably guess by my choice of words there. There's some better term than 'dead-mentally' but I am dead mentally enough to not be able to even remember what that term is) to do so.

Right now if I tried it'd be just naming more generics, but like. It's literally there in his iso. He radiates analysis, thoughts on the game, consistently giving insights which are unique, original to him, show a progression to his thoughts, evolution in reads, reasoning, followthrough is there enough, he's pushing, and even if I don't agree with all of his thoughts I agree with enough of them to be able to trace how he reached those conclusions and all of it looks good.

Which I realize is an unsatisfactory answer, again, too tired to give you what you want right now, but uhhh...remind me about this when I am less tired and around and I can probably give it to you.

[mastina]

Oh yeah I think I needed to say Wonderwall is town because of chasing RC down on that shit he accused me of at some point but I don't remember who asked me

I don't think Wonderwall is town.

But I do think that this is probably the better vote to be honest.

VOTE: Amrun.

[mastina]

Could you go into why you think your alignment becomes clearer the further along the game gets?

Because I post more, simply put.

I have more than one towngame; I have more than one scumgame. I have some things which in one towngame can appear in a different scumgame, and vice versa, but by and large, the multitude of my towngames are just vastly different on a fundamental level than the multitude of my scumgames.

And the more I post, the more it becomes obvious, because legit just see the flowchart for the trends there. Scumastina is just calm, cool, collected, manipulative, but also stunted, stilted, forced, due to being orderly, due to being precise. Every move is calculated, every post carefully written, I take the time to word things to perfection, cover every angle, cover everything, I am exactly where I need to be to accomplish the goals I set out to achieve, which are usually more or less along the lines of letting the town eat itself alive while setting my scumbuddies up for success. I let the town fight town, and give the town no useful information for if I were to flip scum. Minimalistic effort, minimalistic posting, because the less I give the town, the more they are guessing; I'm not going to spoonfeed them the optimal play, I'm not going to take control, I'll stay out of the spotlight, I'll stay in the background, in the shadows, not really taking center stage because if people aren't looking too hard at me then I have the freedom to just survive.

Whereas as town, I am usually emotional (this game I'm not, this game is a bit lifeless I admit but like, extenuating circumstances there because past the initial excitement of feeling the game was solve, there's just the boredom of waiting for people to get to where I am at), chaotic, random, scattered, disorganized, but I flow naturally, there's just an energy which I exude, where in spite of not being precise, I can still string together some good reasoning, good logic, where people can follow how I get from point A to point B well enough, but because I'm mastina there's still plenty which people struggle to see the leap in, but they can see that I MADE the leap and that the leap made sense to me, even if they don't follow the exact line, they can tell that to me there WAS a line.

And I just. Generally. I have that energy, that

presence

to me. I radiate my firmness, my conviction, my stubbornness, and yes, my arrogance, in the delusions of grandeur, that confidence I have in feeling the ~energy~ of feeling I am legit onto something and trying to convince people that I know what I am talking about. It's just something that over a longer period of time, becomes more and more obvious and even though it manifests differently in different towngames (this one has the aforementioned extenuating circumstances where I quickly became a little bit bored once things felt instantly solved and I don't feel a strong need to push people to follow me because I feel like they're on their way to it on their own anyway), it's always there eventually, given enough time.

Plus, regardless of my alignment, I have a certain level of smugness. Cheeky scumfuckery as scumastina, but a smugness of knowing I am town and often knowing things others don't when I'm town.

[mastina]

Seriously Christmas get the fuck in here I can't do anything if its just me and Gobbles posting fuck

Oi I've been posting plenty. Just because I post at different times than most people do doesn't mean I'm not.

[mastina]

I sense that they're not interacting with each other in good faith, in a way that feels like scum partners currently.

I honestly don't see what there'd be to interact with so far. jjh is doing his own thing, I'm doing my own, I see him as town, we might have similar outlooks on the game, but like. I don't feel a need to ask him to sheep me--but that's not a trait unique to jjh; I'm not asking

anyone

to sheep me because I feel like people will come around on their own.

[mastina]

I sense that they're not interacting with each other in good faith, in a way that feels like scum partners currently.

I honestly don't see what there'd be to interact with so far. jjh is doing his own thing, I'm doing my own, I see him as town, we might have similar outlooks on the game, but like. I don't feel a need to ask him to sheep me--but that's not a trait unique to jjh; I'm not asking

anyone

to sheep me because I feel like people will come around on their own.

To reiterate--with it clear jjh is town, with it clear Molla is town, with it clear Turkey is town, and with me knowing I am town, the game has almost a lock-solve just by those names alone.

You only need one town in {Elmo, DDL, NSG, Amrun, Wonderwall} to have an insurmountable poe.
I see Elmo as town and have DDL as town, which're admittedly not universal, but like. Only need one read to become more widespread for the game to be lock upon lock.

And right now we have good spots to vote, so like.
I don't feel the need to push further than that.

[mastina]

Mastina isn’t an easy read but she seems to be pretty genuine here, where she seems kind of off as scum.

Oh that's a really good way of describing it yeah.

As scum I've tried a lifetime to not feel "off" to myself but to this day, never had a scumgame where I didn't feel 'off'. And when I can tell I am 'off' as scum, I can tell that others can tell, too.

Similarly so for as town. Like this game, I can recognize I'm not the normal town mastina but can still feel that I'm *a* town mastina and am not 'off' to a degree where scumreads on me should exist. They shouldn't.

[mastina]

"I have read who this is an alt of before, but I do not remember who it is; I remember it is an alt of a scummer with a decent amount of experience, but not which scummer it was. Might be a logical scummer." That is what I knew about Shuichi at the time I made that list.

And why would not posting be indicative of town for an experienced/logical scummer?

I guessed at what alignment that would make the lack of posting be--my analysis of that sort of player is that they are more likely to make delayed entrances, thus, slightly more likely to be town, pending their posts, obviously.

[mastina]

Molla

Is Molla really usually an easy read?

Pretty much yeah.

[mastina]

I feel a bit of mockery going on here.

I mean I am not gonna say I don't do mockery on occasions, but that post sure doesn't have any to it. It's dead serious, no joking, no mocking, no nothing. Just truth.

[mastina]

This feels so fru-fru frilly for some reason.

No more than the original question. You were asking me to answer something that's literally impossible to answer. Find a game you found special in some way. Can YOU name what you thought made that game special in that way?

...No?

...Exactly.

[mastina]

DDL is like this in every game, so why are you choosing to die on this hill of blatantly defending him? Why not take a neutral stance?

Because

[mastina]

This is something I would expect her to say as scum, and I think she will agree with me on this.

Ehhh...kinda? I'd say something similar I suppose, but I wouldn't say that.

I believe I recall some game where she went on and on about excuses why she didn't match up to her normal self but was totally town, possibly in the absence of anyone pressing her on it.

Yes I do that on occasion. It has happened as both alignments a fact you'd know considering you were in a game where I did that as town.

You know what, screw it. Your credibility in this game took a nosedive, even outside the laughable idea of having a townread on DDL at this moment.

If you say so.

Yes we know you hate the fact that I won paragon.

Sorry to disappoint you but I have literally zero emotions towards you winning paragon. None. Literally zero emotions whatsoever. No disappointment, no anger, nothing, not unless you consider total apathy to be an emotion when apathy is the absence of emotion. I won't lie, you're not who I voted for, but there's zero emotions involved in that.

don't see at all why a logical scummer would make delayed entrance more as town than scum. O.o

And yet anecdotally that's my loose experience.

[mastina]

You don't say what you said in 1177 if you're neutral emotionless, so

I mean you can believe that if you'd like but seeing as how *I* am the one who knows what emotions I am feeling and I can tell you right now the only emotion I am feeling is anger at not being believed at not having felt emotions? Yeah I'll be sticking to what I said because I know it's the fucking truth. You can believe it isn't all you'd like--doesn't matter because you're wrong. I don't lie about shit like this. And I know my own emotions.

[mastina]

nsg when you're done lurking lemme know what your reads are for Christmas

(nsg won't be doing this because she's probably scum.)

[mastina]

that's how I learned about NSG's distaste for scum

Yeah and nsg's lack of investment here doesn't seem like distaste for her role's alignment...

...Why?

[mastina]

I mean, if you don't have a problem with me winning Paragon you could hold back on the passive aggressive jabs about it.

I made no passive aggressive jabs. If you perceived my commentary as passive aggressive jabs, that's an issue on your end because there were none.

[mastina]

Can we get second opinions to tell Mastina she's absolutely being passive aggressive

Can we get second opinions to tell RC that I don't fucking lie and that when I say there was no passive aggressiveness, that means there was none? Because you can't be unintentionally accidentally passive aggressive and because I didn't intend for there to be any passive aggressiveness, none can exist except in the head of RC?

[mastina]

Jormun's absence today is incriminating

Agreed, but would say that's far from the only slot with this.

[mastina]

I just went back to Soccer Spirits earlier today

Ahhh that brings back nostalgia. I don't remember much of that game, my guess being it was mostly Cerb doing the heavylifting, but apparently we got daykilled that game. Fun times.

[mastina]

but anyway, were you aware that all the role pm stuff you posted was in post #1 as the example role pm

Of course. This is not the first time I've been accused of copy-pasting from publicly available information. (Last time it was 'you must have copied Ank's PM'.) Doesn't matter; that isn't where I got it from. I copy-pasted from my actual role PM.

[mastina]

i don't have time right now to post but i will as soon as i wake up.

I suck im so sorry... I’ve been very stressed in real life and been responding by avoiding unnecessary responsibilities outside of it but that’s not right of me and I suck etc.
I will sort this today.

Gee I wonder who could possibly be the scum in this game.

[mastina]

Oh there should be an extra quote in there.

i don't have time right now to post but i will as soon as i wake up.

I suck im so sorry... I’ve been very stressed in real life and been responding by avoiding unnecessary responsibilities outside of it but that’s not right of me and I suck etc.
I will sort this today.

Will catch up with ali and be around later
-wall

Gee I wonder who could possibly be the scum in this game.

[mastina]

yes three scum in a two scum game

Yes I realize all three aren't scum.

But there's no world in which all three are town.

And quite a few where 2/3 are scum.

[mastina]

The follow up is why bother posting it if you knew it was aware in post #1 as the example role PM

Because the opening PM doesn't have the exact formatting that I included.

[mastina]

is this Amrun's scum meta?

Not gonna lie, don't remember Amrun's play that well and it's been years since she's played so her playstyle probably changed anyway, but like. Balance of probability from what I remember, yes.

[mastina]

This inactivity and perpetual promise to catchup

I mean.
That's basically my signature scum move according to others, so.

[mastina]

She’s a healthcare worker with a young child

I get that she is busy doing those things.

But she has provided no content this game at all.

I would prefer her prioritize her real life obligations over a game of mafia--but if she does indeed do so, I'd prefer that she be honest and if she legitimately doesn't have the time/availability to both play this game

and

still prioritize her real life obligations, to level with us and replace out. If she doesn't have the time, she doesn't have the time; there's no shame in replacing out when you're legitimately busy with real life.

But if she

does

have the time, and she's not giving that content, then why isn't she?

[mastina]

Like--
I get that this game has no deadlines, and Amrun and I both grew up in the era of games that had that by default, where a single game day could literally last a real life month, or two, or three, and we took all the time in the world that we needed in order to solve the game. We could, and did, afford to wait. If someone was busy, we gave them time. We had nothing to lose by waiting, we could afford it.

But the game has been going on for six days and Amrun hasn't given anything in that time except promise after promise that the content is coming 'soon', and the games are, by and large, largely stalled. (Is there anyone who doesn't think the games are stalled? Most people seem to be on the same stage that the games are somewhat stalled.)

And even back in the day, if games stalled, the mods would instigate deadlines to the day, and Jingle's rules explicitly say he'll do precisely that, too. So like. Even back in the era Amrun grew up in mafia-wise, her level of contribution just...wouldn't be considered acceptable.

The question I suppose I should ask then is how long are we willing to wait for content that has been promised yet not delivered?

A day's probably fine, but are we willing to wait another week? Fourteen days for content that doesn't show up?
So like--where will you draw the line before it's not really acceptable for Amrun to have done nothing?

I'm feeling extra-generous right now, so I'd set that as ten days total--four days from now. Over a week and a half's chance to produce content. That's plenty of time.

[mastina]

Just gonna remind y'all that today is a holiday that my family does celebrate so yes I do need to take the day off most likely. (Small chance I contribute, large chance I don't.) If I don't contribute, see y'all tomorrow. <3

[mastina]

So I'm going to quote this and cut out all of the fluff.

shuichi probably i am pretty cognitively biased to townread people whom i see as responding to stuff i disagree with reasonably so i'm not sure how relaible my townread is on him.

turkey has basically just instantly become a global townread – i think i'm fine with that.

skygazer/nancy drew/krazy/whoever else is in there hydra is a little weird to read. RC already scumreads them so i might be primed to scumread them. i say that it's weird because individually i would almost certainly be scumreading the contributions from {skygazer, nancy drew}, but the fact that they're in a multi-person hydra changes things. i probably would've left them at null before i knew that nancy drew was there (although the conversation i'm reading between them and shuichi does them no favors—i might've scumread them anyways), but knowing that nancy drew is there they're more likely to be scum. i say that because factors that might influence some people to post differently while in a hydra probably don't apply (or apply less) to nancy drew – i would expect her to post the same as always.

bbmolla i'm gut townreading?
baezu and sircakez i have basically no read whatsoever on.
i have no comment on mastina, really.
jjh i still think probably leans scum. my record on reading jjh is pretty pristine if i might say so myself. not that i'm using that as a way to say that you should sheep me right now – the thought moreso came up as in it's one that i expect i'll have solidified as one or the other given time.

(Cut out a ridiculously large number of 'now that I think about it", "I might say", and similar phrases nsg was spamming.) I cut out the reasons for the near-universal townreads, Turkey and Molla, too, to focus more on the rest.

Two of the only townreads here are on universal townreads, Turkey and Molla.
The one and only townread which is contentious is a notably-weaker fencesitty townread on Shuichi who isn't exactly lockscum to the entire playerlist; he's probably got ever so slightly more people townreading him than scumreading him.

When it comes to almost every divisive slot, nsg has no opinions to tip the scales--none on me, SirCakez, Baezu, and more.
She does give scumreads on two contentious slots, jjh and Trojan Horses, but even on those reads, similar to her Shuichi read but different from her townreads on less-contentious slots, she's wishy-washy on them.

To summarize; reads on less than half of the players, most of her townreads don't make waves (she doesn't waver in her Molla/Turkey townreads which I cut out the explanations for but you can confirm this by reading the post yourself), and most of her scumreads are designed to be carefully crafted to give her a convenient out if she so chose to reverse her stance.

That, plus the use of the careful language.

I'm not saying nsg is locktown from this but like.
Townreading this contribution seems awful lazy at best.

[mastina]

(Also for what it's worth, when it comes to Trojan Horses, I am in the weird spot where if the hydra does contain Krazy

and

Nancy then by their contributions I would be thinking by meta they're scum, but looking at their posts disregarding meta, I just feel like their posts radiate town.)

[mastina]

I'm kinda interested in why NSG seems to lack confidence in her read on me atm

Because you're a contentious slot.

[mastina]

she is tonally town. I have never seen her effectively fake that in any game where I’ve played with scum!her.

I mean to be honest I really don't get why people don't just read me by this metric. scumastina is always flat in tone, dull, lifeless, 'cause I can't fake the energy and enthusiasm of my town self. I have an aura as town that radiates through me.

(Also, this is the Nancy that I'd expect from her as town. Doesn't instantly make her town, yes, I know; she can do stuff like this as scum, one head already professed a willingness to fake her posting, yes, I know. But, as I was saying, by aura radiating from them, I was townreading the slot anyway and this is something which helps me for townreading the slot off of something more than just aura.)

[mastina]

jj's most recent posts are kind of weird and I don't know what to make of them

To be honest, not gonna lie; there's multiple slots where my townread on them has good reason to have decayed due to paranoia into doubt, with if I were to follow that logic down the rabbit hole, some even reversing into scumreads.

Not_Mafia/DDL.
jjh.
Elmo.
Baezu.
And SirCakez.

All of them have good reason to have had townreads on them fade.

But honestly.

I just want to say "fuck that shit" and stick with my original assessments of the slots.
For one. Simple. reason.

There's a difference between having reads this certain in 7 pages in any given game, in general, generically...

...And having reads this certain in 7 pages in

this specific

game.

In this specific game, fuck yes, I feel that there's very damn good reads to be had off of 7 pages, reads that for D1 are exceptionally good--not perfect reads, of course, because it's D1, but right now I feel like we have better reads available from 7 pages, than most games have by the last day of D1 when there's less than 24 hours until deadline.

And frankly if you don't think these 7 pages contain enough information to get us a very damn good head start on solving the game, then there's something really wrong with

your

thinking process.

Do I think I have perfect reads or that perfect reads are possible right now?

Of course not!

Do I think we have enough information to,

for D1

, have a DAMN good starter solve?
Yes, yes I do.

i'm going to make a prediction – if we don't win this game within the first few days, we are certainly going to lose.

I mean, I feel like the game is close to solved right now.

With it close to solved, right now,

later content will only be muddying up the waters

,

making things

more murky,

less clear, than they are now

, so like.

Easy prediction to make there.

I am trusting my past self to have called it, to have nailed it, right there with that prediction--that my current doubts of those slots are going to push me further away from the correct solve which I initially was incredibly close to.

[mastina]

So... who do you scumread, Mastina?

In my game?
Wonderwall's 'content' this game has been absolute ass.
Amrun has given literally nothing except continued promises to catch up that have not once been met.
And while northsidegal's put more effort in more recently, her content here is very hedgey by and large, where she isn't making waves, she isn't making a solve, she isn't pushing, she is doing fuckall.

2/3 of those are scum.

At this stage, honestly, I'm kinda thinking that Amrun might just be a flaking town player rather than coasting lurking scum.
And that the coasting lurking scum doing the least amount possible are Wonderwall and nsg.
VOTE: Wonderwall.
(Since I was voting Amrun.)

In the other game?
It's a bit harder.
{RC, Jormund, Bernadetta, Shuichi} make the list.
Jormund and Bernadetta have done nothing this game except post 'content' that is suspicious.

Plenty of people townread RC and Shuichi for their contributions, but I'm not convinced either of them are town for their posts which frankly feel null at best, with plenty that makes me inclined to think scum.

I don't know which of the two in that game is the magical solve but I don't think there's scum outside of those four.

If you want more in-depth reasoning where I explain these things...try reading my iso because I feel like my scumreads the whole fucking game are rather abundantly clear from it.

[mastina]

it's definitely possible I'm underestimating NSG, tbh I was really underwhelmed by what she pulled in Team Mafia so my expectations aren't super high

I mean team mafia nsg is like not even playing? that's a low bar scum game.

Gee I wonder what nsg has done this game.

[mastina]

hi scumstina!

Hi assbringer!

[mastina]

GuyInFreezer replaces Bernadetta.

Jingle you have a real talent for replacing one type of player with a nearly identical sort of player. (NM's replacement of DDL was similarly so.)

One question tho, why Vecna for Jormun? I don't see their similarities at all.

[mastina]

yes i am prod dodging for mena

(Really tho. You're trolling if you think ^this^ slot is town.)

[mastina]

VOTE: Mastina
L-1

I mean considering that this game is painfully obviously mountainous because this is a white flag game and you don't have PRs in white flag games, not sure exactly what you're expecting from this in terms of claims.

I did technically redact my role earlier when quoting my role PM, but I was pretty damn obviously a VT, so like.
"Welcome, mastina, to Doubles Mafia. You have chosen to be a part of Game Christmas.

You are a Vanilla Townie, with all the rights and responsibilities implied by such a powerful station. You may address your fellow players at any time, day or night, in the game thread, located here, as long as you are alive.

You, and the rest of the TOWN faction, win when at least two members of the MAFIA faction are dead, regardless of whether they were players in your game. Please confirm by PMing my your role name and the name of the game you are in."

Not sure what you're expecting to see beyond this.

[mastina]

Mastina were you scum?

No. I'm town.

[mastina]

Really odd that people just now speedhammered Mastina with so many replacements coming in.

Yes well they're fucking morons, so.

I wish I could say 'fucking scum', but like.
Wonderwall's the only scum on my wagon since nsg is off and the only other possible scum slot is Amrun's who isn't voting me so like.

It's not scum.

So it's fucking morons.

[mastina]

i really dont care if mastina gets speedhammered tbh
her posts make me puke in my mouth a little bit

This is not a town RC by the way.

Just thought y'all should know.

This is explicitly a scum-RC post.

[mastina]

I have gotten no whiff of manipulation whatsoever yet (but this always only comes D2 regardless).

I literally just quoted an instance of RC being manipulative and there's many more beyond that.

[mastina]

Um so I'm having some time constraints irl so I'll hopefully be on gear soon.

And people wonder why I think this could be a scum slot.

[mastina]

Dunno why y'all hate Mastina or if you guys are just memeing.

Like I said.

They're fucking morons.

Aside from Wonderwall who's just fucking scum.

The scum in my game is transparently obvious. It's as clear as day. {nsg, Wonderwall, Amrun}, with a very strong lean towards the former two (because Amrun's slot could be flaking town, we'll find out soon enough).

northsidegal's lackluster content shows that she's not invested in this game for no reason other than what can only be said to be her alignment.
Wonderwall's lackluster content shows that same exact pattern, for what is almost certainly the same.

jjh is town, Molla is locktown, Turkey is locktown, and if you think that Baezu and Elmo are town that doesn't leave many scum options.
Scum by play, scum by poe, scum by meta, scum by every margin.

The shitty-ass wagon on me is horseshit and they'll look back on it and fucking KNOW it's horseshit when I fucking flip town because this is my fucking towngame, there's NO case on me being scum, I've explained why those two are scum, there's nothing.

[mastina]

i am really confused by people townreading vecna entrance but ok

I mean.
Vecna makes me want to lynch the slot less--his contributions are probably thusfar nai, his content so far is probably neither town nor scum, not outside his scumrange, not clearing him.

But like.

Gotta admit.

As hypocritical as it is to say this given my stance on nsg.
His content sure does make me not want to lynch him, at least right now. Where in spite of me knowing effort != alignment, his content feels like it's worth letting live for longer.

So I'd focus more on {RC, GIF, Shuichi}.

[mastina]

This is false. Where did any of our heads do that?

Um.

One of your heads explicitly said they'd be willing to fake Nancy posting?

But also:

So you don't buy that Nancy has out of game reasons not to be posting much?

Uh, I explicitly do?

Like.

I am townreading your slot.

I gave devil's advocate's reasons for why there'd be reasons not to--and discarded them as "fuck those reasons, I think they're town".

[mastina]

That’s an interesting take because she doesn’t feel like the town games I’ve played with her

Then you're a fucking moron because I'm past the fucking point of town now.

I've been town the whole fucking game.

I've been different from the town-me from other town games but I've never not been a version of me that is town.

And I know that I am fucking town.

I know I am town here.

I know I am radiating it.

I fucking KNOW my aura.

I know the fucking aura I give off.

And I fucking KNOW that this is my fucking town aura.
I have that energy.
I can't fake that energy, and I fucking KNOW it is in this game.

There's a fire, passion, that I display here even if it's not in the way it normally is and I fucking KNOW it is on display and if you can't fuckign see it then you're a fuckign moron because it's right fucking there.

[mastina]

I don't even know what RC's exact reads are rn because he's so discombobulated

(Maybe that's because he's scum.)

[mastina]

Mastina, if you had any doubts about my slot, here's undeniable proof I'm town

I mean.

You're already a townread?

[mastina]

I claim pr fuckers
whatchu gonna do

Scumread you harder than I already am of course.

[mastina]

On a semi-serious note, I found NSG's early blurb to feel pretty scripted and it feels like someone was coaching her even with the whole BBmolla interaction where she said fuck off. Then she literally disappear and plays other games and neglects this game. Then she comes in with this really weird stream of thoughts.

Pretty much yeah.

[mastina]

C'mon Mastina you didn't know that was a fakehammer?

Nope! I was reading as I was going along.

[mastina]

I'm all good with a real hammer fwiw

And you can go fuck yourwself Molla vecause youj're a fvucking moron here.

[mastina]

i really think
that every single scum is trying to lynch nsg right now

Oh really.
Do tell!

Because I think the far more likely option.
Is every single scum is trying to defend nsg right now.

[mastina]

Unpopular opinion: NSG feels like she's being coached by someone resembling RC and it's bugging me b/c my hydra has RC as town.

Simple solution; you're wrong because RC is scum this game.

It's {nsg, Wonderwall | RC, ?Shuichi?} as the far most likely scumteam at this stage, with outside options of GIF, Vecna, and farside.

[mastina]

Then she literally disappear and plays other games and neglects this game.

not gonna discuss it further in fear of modkills but this is actually a really good catch, that's whack

And yet YOU ARE FFUCIIKING PUSHING FOR TGHED FUKCING LYNCH
OF THE FUCKING PLAYER
WHO IS MUST STRONGLY FUCKIGN PUSHING FOR HER FUCKIGN LYNCH
IN A FUCKING WHITE FLATG MECHANIC GAME WHERE SCUM ARE HEAVILY INCENTIVIZED TO NOT FUCKING BUS
ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING I LITERALLY WROTE THE BOOK ON NOT FUCKING BUSSING

[mastina]

notice that
when i started calling mastina scum and alluding to having a solve
this gigantic fucking last ditch tunnel on nsg started

Uh huh.
Sure did.

I've not once voiced you're scum or nsg are scum before recently.

OH WAIT.

[mastina]

One of your heads explicitly said they'd be willing to fake Nancy posting?

Please quote! I didn't say that, and I highly doubt the other head did.

To NSG: I was referring to Nancy in this post.
She's unable to get herself to post right now due to a few reasons.

If she was able to, I'd absolutely be making her post if we were scum.

What does the bolded mean if not "I'd be making her posts if we were scum"?

[mastina]

bitmap you mastina vecna

Haven't I and Mastina been pushing her much earlier?

I've been pushing her for the whole fucking game nonstop yes.

[mastina]

mastina is confirmed scum in the other game

HOLD RC TO THIS AND POWERFUCKING LYNCH HIM WHEN I FLIP TOWN

.

[mastina]

i'm interested to hear this. i won't deny that i'm not particularly invested in this game, but i would say the lustre of my content is about as equal as is warranted by the content of the game. so what is it that makes it that i

must

be scum because of not being invested? that is, why is being scum the only possible result of not being particularly invested? i could easily cite you towngames where i lacked investment much more than here, but i think we both know that.

There's no good reason to not be invested in this game.
While the game did stall due to many slots being in need of replacement, nothing--literally nothing--warranted this game being one which wasn't worth investing in. Quite the opposite, there's a metric fuckload of shit which makes this game heavily worthy of getting invested in. It's interesting, it's engaging, it's got a ton of good players, it had a good environment where people were being lighthearted, and yet serious enough to have reasonably strong scumhunting.

This game had an energy about it that made it worth playing--and while that energy right now has faded greatly in many ways, it has never truly disappeared altogether. Plus, you have shown a track record; you've been, provably, disengaged and disinterested in being scum, whereas you've shown, proven, you have a track record of being engaged and interested as town, and sitewide have shown that you're active elsewhere far, far more than here.

A lack of interest, right now, in this game, unwarranted, randomly, compared to sitewide having plenty of interest.

It's enough.

[mastina]

firebringer and mastina are both confirmed scum both associatively and based on individual play: i am going to place my vote now

Ah yes.
Firebringer the one in his hydra insisting that this is scumastina is my scumbuddy.

Clearly a valid narrative.





...

Yeah, this is bullshit and RC KNOWS it is bullshit because he fucking knows Firebringer and me to the extent that he fucking knows that we're not scumbuddies.

The narrative that we're both scum is one which is inherently, purely, manipulative.
Meant to manipulate players into selling a narrative, with no thought as to whether that narrative holds up.

[mastina]

actually
you were pretty content to lurk your ass off back when town wasnt really doing anything

Oh really.

Spoiler: Where was this alleged lurking then

On that note, to get the ball rolling, updated readslist:
We are not helping
gobbledygook
BBMolla
jjh
SirCakez
DrDolittle

Elmo teh AzN

Baezu

Amrun
Shuichi Saihara

northsidegal
Trojan Horses
Jormungand
Lie Ren
Wonderwall

Bernadetta
RadiantCowbells

100% locktown, strong town, weak town, nulltown, null, scum.

For mental reference, the half I can vote is,
gobbledygook
BBMolla
jjh
DrDolittle

Elmo teh AzN

Amrun

northsidegal
Wonderwall

...Which is easy enough, poe,

nsg + Wonderwall

are the scumteam on my half.
VOTE: Wonderwall.

And yes--legit do think our half is mostly really just that easy.
Turkey here is immediately, very obviously town here.
BBMolla is just town here.
jjh is almost assuredly town--even if not, he can't keep up the obvtownness he's radiating now indefinitely.
And I'm pretty sure that this is DDL as town.

And I think Elmo is probably town, so.

Three slots, for two scum. Could be any combination of the three, but my instant gutlock reaction educated guestimate is

nsg+Wonderwall

, sooooo.

Mastina if you try to call NSG scum when I am not calling her scum thats going to go very badly

Hey she's not a scumread, she's just not a townread in a game where I have a townread on 5/8 of the slots in my game where via poe there's only three possible scum slots which she happens to be among.

I stated a scumread on you and put nsg at near the bottom of my readslist

Down to blindly sheep Mastina. Mastina, who should I vote for?

Bernadetta, obv.

This game feels too easy, actually

It does, actually. I legit feel the game's been close to solved in less than eight pages.

It's obviously not fully fully solved, but like. I feel like we're just waiting for people to show up and all agree on what's already obvious right now, and then to refine, hone in, on perfection so to speak, closer to the time when we need to.

I think that if you're claiming that you have reads this certain 7 pages in there's something really wrong with your thinking process.

There's a difference between having reads this certain in 7 pages in any given game, in general, generically...

...And having reads this certain in 7 pages in

this specific

game.

In this specific game, fuck yes, I feel that there's very damn good reads to be had off of 7 pages, reads that for D1 are exceptionally good--not perfect reads, of course, because it's D1, but right now I feel like we have better reads available from 7 pages, than most games have by the last day of D1 when there's less than 24 hours until deadline.

And frankly if you don't think these 7 pages contain enough information to get us a very damn good head start on solving the game, then there's something really wrong with

your

thinking process.

Do I think I have perfect reads or that perfect reads are possible right now?

Of course not!

Do I think we have enough information to,

for D1

, have a DAMN good starter solve?
Yes, yes I do.

I'm not a big fan of mastina going straight towards both our paragons combined with this when they barely posted any content.

They haven't even done anything.

NSG

barely posted and RC is just doing RC stuff.

Precisely. It is specifically because they have barely posted any content, as paragons. That, plus gut on thinking how they'd approach as scum.

can someone tell me what to do thanks

Vote Wonderwall.

Also now I legit am thinking nsg might just actually be scum here since her content has looked less than stellar.

{Elmo, BBmolla} good scum core for Christmas?

Noooooo, not even remotely close. Molla's town here and Elmo's entrance into the game radiated town to me--not enough to locktown Elmo, but enough where she's not someone who I'd want to try and lynch on D1 barring an extreme shift. {

nsg

, Wonderwall, Amrun} are a much much much better grouping.

i'm going to make a prediction – if we don't win this game within the first few days, we are certainly going to lose.

I mean, I feel like the game is close to solved right now. With it close to solved, right now, later content will only be muddying up the waters, making things more murky, less clear, than they are now, so like. Easy prediction to make there.

I'm fine with everyone starting the game by townreading active people but I'm not convinced jormun lie Amrun Elmo is 4 scum right now

Sure isn't!
May I present to you the alternative pool of,

{Jormun, Shuichi, RadiantCowbells, Bernadetta}, {Amrun,

northsidegal

, Wonderwall}?

Now

that

grouping sure looks like it contains the four scum. I realize it's not exactly four names, two names in two games, that I've got seven total which is two too many in one game, one too many in the other, three too many in total, butstill, I like my pool a lot more.

I do agree with the statement that if Mastina is scum vs an NSG AND RC town team her MO has to be to corral people who support her and shade RC/NSG in order to have any chance.

Mate I don't shade. Period. If I think someone is scum, I will call them scum. If I am scum, then I fake this process. (Well, when I so choose. I usually am just...not bothering to do so as scum these days because I've been finding I simply don't need to. No, really. Legit serious, these days as scum I've found I don't even need to give scumreads, and I still get away with a surprisingly large amount of shit.)

There is value to be had in paragons being alive, if they are town--but they wouldn't be paragons if they were rattled, if they were shaken, by an incorrect scumread on their slot. They wouldn't be paragons if someone incorrectly scumreading them threw them off their beat, threw them off their kilter, kept them from putting in a paragon-level performance.

And there is value to be had in paragons being alive, if they are town--but if they

aren't

town, then why the fuck would I fear pushing scum just off of the value of "what if they're town", given the above? Given that being erroneously scumread shouldn't rattle, shouldn't shake, a paragon winner, there's no reason not to state a scumread on one.

NSG is just scum and everyone should know that by now
But it feels like cheating for that to be half of our win condition so let's leave her alive

I mean, my reads are clear enough with her as one of the poe scum.

So like.

Ya won't hear me arguing otherwise.

but it seems like Christmas starting townblock is something like
Bbmolla, Gobbles, NSG

The inclusion of nsg is laughable but like. It should be painfully obvious that Turkey and Molla are both town. This is not groundbreaking news.

I sense that they're not interacting with each other in good faith, in a way that feels like scum partners currently.

I honestly don't see what there'd be to interact with so far. jjh is doing his own thing, I'm doing my own, I see him as town, we might have similar outlooks on the game, but like. I don't feel a need to ask him to sheep me--but that's not a trait unique to jjh; I'm not asking

anyone

to sheep me because I feel like people will come around on their own.

To reiterate--with it clear jjh is town, with it clear Molla is town, with it clear Turkey is town, and with me knowing I am town, the game has almost a lock-solve just by those names alone.

You only need one town in {Elmo, DDL,

NSG

, Amrun, Wonderwall} to have an insurmountable poe.
I see Elmo as town and have DDL as town, which're admittedly not universal, but like. Only need one read to become more widespread for the game to be lock upon lock.

And right now we have good spots to vote, so like.
I don't feel the need to push further than that.

nsg when you're done lurking lemme know what your reads are for Christmas

(nsg won't be doing this because she's probably scum.)

that's how I learned about NSG's distaste for scum

Yeah and nsg's lack of investment here doesn't seem like distaste for her role's alignment...

...Why?

Jormun's absence today is incriminating

Agreed, but would say that's far from the only slot with this.

Oh there should be an extra quote in there.

i don't have time right now to post but i will as soon as i wake up.

I suck im so sorry... I’ve been very stressed in real life and been responding by avoiding unnecessary responsibilities outside of it but that’s not right of me and I suck etc.
I will sort this today.

Will catch up with ali and be around later
-wall

Gee I wonder who could possibly be the scum in this game.

yes three scum in a two scum game

Yes I realize all three aren't scum. But there's no world in which all three are town. And quite a few where 2/3 are scum.

Where is this alleged lack of pushing, RC?
I have pushed nsg almost every single fucking time I've been here.
And these are just the quotes pertinent to my push on nsg.
If you want to see pushes on Wonderwall and others, it's much much longer of a list.

So I repeat.

Where's the alleged lurking?
Where's the alleged lack of pushing?

[mastina]

Mastina why are you only showing up now that there's real lynch pressure on you? You've been sorta absent from the game for a while.

What the FUJK are you talkihng about.

I have been here EFVERY FUCKING DAY except for the fucking holidays.

I wasn't here Saturday or Sunday.

Yknow.

EASTER WEEKEND.

I have posted literally every fucking day aside from then.

And as I just fucking quoted.
I've been given content EVFERY FUCKING DASY.

Don't fucking believe me?

Then read my fucking iso YOURSWELF and don't fucking take RC's lying ass word for it, check the facts for your fucking self and you'll see that I've been here every single day. Any day I wasn't here, I wasn't elsewhere, either. There's never been a day where I wasn't here but I was elsewhere. (In contrast? There HAVE been days where I was here but WASN'T elsewhere.)

[mastina]

Like nsg has been disengaged for ages
Why only pull this out now?

I've BEEN fucking pulling it out.
If people didn't engage me on it before, whose fault is that? Mine, for posting content that others chose not to engage me on?

I think not.

[mastina]

at least now ur actually trying to imitate ur town game.
kind of late for that, don't u think?

Fuck off.

[mastina]

ALSO mastina has not given me my title WHICH I AM ENTITLED TO
so I am SRing her for that

Helpful hint.
I do stuff outside of games when I am not currently invested in games.

GTEE I WONDER WHY I AM NOT DOING TITLE FAIRY STUFF.
MAYBE IT IS BECAUSE I AM FUCKING INVESTED IN THIS GAME.

[mastina]

I have better track record of anyone here with u, and u kind of just ignoring it. u gonna consider me scum at all?

No because your slot is and has been town the entire fucking game.

RC's slot hasn't.

You're a fucking asshole who can fuck off when I flip town and swwesar that you fucvking fdon't actually have the right to read me anymore when aI fucking flip town.

GBut you're never scum here because you're town, period.

RC isn't. He's just scum.

[mastina]

i think the only thing you could say would be "you would find this game interesting if you were town", in which case i would be very interested in what justification you came up for that.

Well yes, basically. I don't believe a town-nsg doesn't find this game interesting.

[mastina]

Okay, maybe RC is right about mastina.

Yes the person who is fucking lying about my in-game contributions has the right read on me and is selling a narrative with no holes in it whatsoever that holds up perfectly to scrutiny.

[mastina]

P-edit: I'm not doing anything until you calm down jeez

And WHY would I have ANY reason to calm down.

Name one.

[mastina]

cut back the indignation about 20% and focus on who ur scumreading a bit more.

northsidegal is scum this game because fuck other games, fuck her activity sitewide, fuck that all--purely off of this game, her content doesn't hold up as town.

She is avoiding giving opinions on just about everyone. The few stances she has which are in any way controversial, she is carefully avoiding committing to. She is deliberately not giving actual scumhunting.

Wonderwall is scum because both heads are chronic lurking and have avoided the whole game actually providing content.

RadiantCowbells has been posting incredibly manipulative content the entire game and has had a scum aura the entire fucking game. He's been avoiding pushing strong, he's been avoiding controlling the town, he's been avoiding the spotlight. He's been more or less hanging around, and he's doing the very thing he's accusing me of in a blatant projection attempt. He says that I've only shown up recently, when in fact if you look at his 'contributions' throughout the game, only recently has he stepped up and even in that stepping up he hasn't delivered.

As just the core.

[mastina]

I am still waiting for a good explanation why your so certain we are town.

Basically.
Your slot made yourselves immediately obvtown from the everything. The aura your partners were emitting, what they were doing, how they were interacting, their contributions. There wasn't a lick of scum to be had in them. You had a level of casualness to your posts, an ease in a gamestate where it felt like scum were stilted--in a gamestate where it felt like scum were afraid to contribute, in a gamestate where it felt like scum had trepidation with regards to being active, invested, and such, your slot

wasn't

and was very much the opposite. Unafraid, willing to be in the spotlight, casual, with ease, naturalness, no forced content, nothing. Just an aura of radiant town energy.

I could maybe, maybe,

maybe

see you if you were solo doing it, and I definitely if you were solo would be paranoid of any given townread I'd have on you.

But you're not solo; there's three of you and I can't see any world where all three of you manage to play the way you have this game if you're actually scum.

Why is RC not sure, and u are?

Because RC is scum and I am town.

[mastina]

VOTE: Mastina

Guess what?

I'm town.

And you can fucking lynch nsg for this scum hammer.

[mastina]

Wow! Mastina had better flip scum now.

Nope!
Still town!

And now I actually

can

say that it's a fucking scum wagon because nsg's hammer was blatantly a scumclaim.

[mastina]

quick, reads, everyone – we don't know how the thread lock mechanics work at night, right? plus crosskills

nsg wouldn't have hammered me if she wanted this.

[mastina]

but mastina dying was time sensitive
i dont have the energy to fight her for the rest of my life

He's literally fucking claiming scum here by saying "I needed mastina dead here".

Remember that

I am flipping town here

.
RC can try to bullshit it all he wants.
He can try to give excuses for it all he wants.
But I will flip town and then you fucks WON'T let him get away with it or there will be

words

.

NSG is scum; Wonderwall is scum; RC is scum.
Last scum is RC's partner, pool of {Vecna, Shuichi, GIF}. Vecna unlikely, so in Shuichi/GIF, lean Shuichi.

[mastina]

Your slot made yourselves immediately obvtown from the everything. The aura your partners were emitting, what they were doing, how they were interacting, their contributions.

u have been saying aura to describe players a lot lately..what do u mean by this?

noun
noun: aura; plural noun: aurae; plural noun: auras
1. the distinctive atmosphere or quality that seems to surround and be generated by a person, thing, or place.
"the ceremony retains an aura of mystery"
Similar: atmosphere, air, quality, aspect, character, ambience, spirit, feeling, flavor, coloring, complexion, climate, tone, impression, vibrations
2. (in spiritualism and some forms of alternative medicine) a supposed emanation surrounding the body of a living creature and regarded as an essential part of the individual.

Sounds pretty self-explanatory to me. Aura means exactly what it means.

I read people by auras a lot now.

[mastina]

I still don't get what bitmap or oka did that was so obvtown. I want to know what my partners have that I don't!!!!

Not being you.

[mastina]

she is 100% lying. the only universe in which she is town is one where she is wilfully warping reality and inventing information to accuse a player that she really has every reason to know is town for out of game reasons to stick it to me by association

This is all nice and good and all but I WILL be flipping town and then you fucks WILL need to hold RC accountable for this and not let him go "oh I was wrong" or try to victim blame me by saying it was on MY fucking end because fuck no it isn't.

[mastina]

I still don't get what bitmap or oka did that was so obvtown. I want to know what my partners have that I don't!!!!

All three independently expressing fluidity? And consistently posting, etc.

Pretty much yeah.

[mastina]

Vote Count #1.9
Halloween	Christmas
With 9 Alive, it is 5 to Lynch or No Lynch! Vecna (2): SirCakez, We are not helping, SirCakez (1): Baezu, We are not helping (1): Radiant Cowbells, Trojan Horses (1): Shuichi Saihara, Baezu (1): Lie Ren, Radiant Cowbells (0): GuyInFreezer (0): Shuichi Saihara (0): Lie Ren (0): Not Voting (2): GuyInFreezer, Vecna, Trojan Horses,	With 9 Alive, it is 5 to Lynch or No Lynch! mastina (4): Not Mafia, BBMolla, Gobbledegook, northsidegal, Not_Mafia (1):Elmo teh AzN, Wonderwalll (1):mastina, jjh (1): Wonderwalll, Elmo teh AzN (0): farside22 (0): Northsidegal (0): Gobbledegook (0): BBMolla (0): Not Voting (2): jjh, farside22,

VOTE: Mastina

Mastina is not a player in your game, thus this counted as an unvote.

Oh I'm not dead then?

VOTE: northsidegal.
NSG literally scumclaimed with her attempted hammer of me.

That was.
Literally.
A 100%.
Absolute.
Scumclaim.
On her part.

Because NSG

never

lolhammers me otherwise when she is under such heavy scrutiny and the people who're asleep coming to the thread would be able to come to my defense and unvote if voting me.

[mastina]

oh, jingle's about to reveal it anyways. the votecount was incorrect, it had wonderwall voting for mastina when they're actually voting for jjh.
UNVOTE:

Yeah I don't believe you when you say you weren't aware of this.

[mastina]

Mastina, she knew the VC was wrong. She was fakehammering for reactions.

And what reactions has she drawn from it?

This is not a question directed at you, for you to analyze the reactions to her hammer attempt.

This is a question directed at you, to analyze what

she

has analyzed in regards to reactions to her hammer attempt.

Where's her analysis from the hammer attempt?
Where's her thoughts? Her feedback? Where's her conclusions from it?

[mastina]

Why do you expect instant analysis from her? Now that you know it's a doctored VC, it's fact that she knew it was wrong. What now, Mastina?

Now I admit that I was wrong and that she did in fact know it was wrong.

Beyond that--if you're expecting a magical 180 on my nsg read from scum to town? You're a moron.

NSG knew she was fake-hammering.

Fake-hammering is not inherently a town action.

You have to look at the mindset behind the fake hammer.

As scum, the mindset behind a fake hammer is to earn some quick cheap instant towncred; get people to townread you who weren't before, and increase the strength of existing townreads on your slot--sounds like a pretty good deal, doesn't it?

As town, the mindset behind a fake hammer is, explicitly, to gather information, analyze this information, and garner conclusions from it on multiple slots--and yet, nsg has yet to show she is doing this, she's yet to show this is what she was aiming for, she's yet to actually go through with anything regarding it.

NSG pulled off the fake hammer, and did nothing with it.

If someone pulls off a fake hammer and does nothing which it, which mindset does that more closely resemble? The town one of using it for information, or the scum one of using it for cheap towncred? The answer seems apparent enough.

That having been said.
VOTE: Wonderwall.
I will acknowledge that regardless of whether my read here is right on this being scum nsg, we're not getting an actual lynch on her today due to people insisting "but it must've been from a town nsg!!!".

[mastina]

as for wonderwall
, just called them newbtown and basically they've been prodging since then
-oka

Ah yes a hydra of our current rising star and (if I recall correctly) a winner of a past rising star (who basically hasn't gone a year without a scummie nom if not outright scummie win), players who have played hundreds of games, is newbtown. Sounds about right!

[mastina]

mastina is still scum and the lack of response after the "hammer" solidified that for me

Fuck off Molla.

Your tunnel on me is fucking old and it's nothing but fucking air.

I did fucking respond.

I was catching up in real time and I was fucking posting the entire time, nonstop, in this game. I never went elsewhere; I never took a break. Unless you count bathroom breaks, coffee breaks, breakfast breaks, etc., because half the time I'm playing this game while neglecting basic body needs. (I wouldn't be able to tell you the exact times I attended to those needs because I don't remember when I do those activities, they're every day things you don't think about doing--well, except for right now. Gotta use the bathroom so there will be a break between this post and my next.)

[mastina]

she made a post at the same time as the hammer
the next post was 10 minutes later

To what gap are you referring?

cut back the indignation about 20% and focus on who ur scumreading a bit more.

northsidegal is scum this game because fuck other games, fuck her activity sitewide, fuck that all--purely off of this game, her content doesn't hold up as town.

She is avoiding giving opinions on just about everyone. The few stances she has which are in any way controversial, she is carefully avoiding committing to. She is deliberately not giving actual scumhunting.

Wonderwall is scum because both heads are chronic lurking and have avoided the whole game actually providing content.

RadiantCowbells has been posting incredibly manipulative content the entire game and has had a scum aura the entire fucking game. He's been avoiding pushing strong, he's been avoiding controlling the town, he's been avoiding the spotlight. He's been more or less hanging around, and he's doing the very thing he's accusing me of in a blatant projection attempt. He says that I've only shown up recently, when in fact if you look at his 'contributions' throughout the game, only recently has he stepped up and even in that stepping up he hasn't delivered.

As just the core.

This was posted after the fake hammer.

I am still waiting for a good explanation why your so certain we are town.

Basically.
Your slot made yourselves immediately obvtown from the everything. The aura your partners were emitting, what they were doing, how they were interacting, their contributions. There wasn't a lick of scum to be had in them. You had a level of casualness to your posts, an ease in a gamestate where it felt like scum were stilted--in a gamestate where it felt like scum were afraid to contribute, in a gamestate where it felt like scum had trepidation with regards to being active, invested, and such, your slot

wasn't

and was very much the opposite. Unafraid, willing to be in the spotlight, casual, with ease, naturalness, no forced content, nothing. Just an aura of radiant town energy.

I could maybe, maybe,

maybe

see you if you were solo doing it, and I definitely if you were solo would be paranoid of any given townread I'd have on you.

But you're not solo; there's three of you and I can't see any world where all three of you manage to play the way you have this game if you're actually scum.

Why is RC not sure, and u are?

Because RC is scum and I am town.

This was my next post.
Keep in mind that I fucking read as I go. So in 1844, I was reading, and responding to, 1859. In 1914, I had to read 1860, 1861, 1862, 1863, 1864, 1865, 1866, 1867, 1868, 1869, 1870, and then read AND respond to 1871.

Look at the length of all of the posts in question, along with the length of my response.

So.
You think I can read all of those posts and write a lengthy response to 1871, in less than ten minutes?

DO YOU?

Be fucking honest.
Ten minutes is a fucking godly good time given how much I was reading.

[mastina]

Did something happen here? I went to bed and woke up and there was 20 pages.

Yeah. Idiots wagoned me.
Scum (RC) called me scum.

[mastina]

because mastina existing is hugely antitown if shes town

You keep saying this and yet it is patently untrue.

[mastina]

Why not the Ren lui slot?

Because Gamma's content this game is thoroughly null at worst.

why is the GIF slot not lock town to you over the stuff bernadette did?

Because Bernadetta did fuckall of nothing? She weakly stated a townread, weakly stated a second townread, says an anime name (which is not specific) is scum, says it's too easy, gives a lousy pool, and her sole contribution to the game, the one and only thing she's done that was in any way actual scumhunting, was one defense she made about your slot. (Which, to be fair, she has more posts on him.)

That contribution isn't enough to be lockscum of lockscum, but there's nothing even remotely worthy of locktown in it. It's a stretch to call it town at all.

[mastina]

It could be scum being upset about being wagoned for the wrong reasons, but this feels a bit bigger than that.

Well. If it helps. I can link to every scumgame of mine played pretty much ever and you can go searching in them for bouts of anger and what they are about.

I can also point out at least four (I think it might actually be five) examples of town anger off the top of my head for comparison to said scum bouts.

Easy enough to do.

[mastina]

ur literally voting vecna and just finsihed trying to quicklynch them and now you are trying to townblock with them

Honestly I'm at the point where I'm willing to call Vecna town. I know, been years since I played with him; I remember him having a somewhat strong scumgame; the slot was suspicious before he came in and if Vecna's scumgame is somewhat strong then his contributions shouldn't be enough to warrant that townread.

But at a certain point I have to go fuckit, the excuses to hold back on townreading him are exactly that, excuses, that the overwhelming feeling, aura, I get from him is that he is town and that, yes, he should be included in a townbloc. So in actuality,

Awesome.
{Vecna, Trojan Horses, WANH} townbloc

I don't actually have a problem with this.
I would suggest the inclusion of SirCakez--you might note that my reason for townreading Vecna is pretty much identical to him. That while I know SirCakez has a strong scumgame and that it's been years since I played with him, that the overwhelming feeling that I get from his aura is that he is town.

With those four as town, who're the five left in the game?
{RC, Shuichi Saihara, Baezu, Lie Ren, GuyInFreezer}.
I think that Lie Ren is null-at-worst, with a reasonable chance at being town.
I had an early townread on Baezu and I still think that holds.

So what does that leave?

{RC, Shuichi Saihara, GuyInFreezer}.

And I can see either Shuichi or GIF as being RC's scumbuddy. (I technically could see a Shuichi/GIF scumteam but like. This is RadiantCowbells's scumgame here, so. It's a question of finding him and his partner.)

To put that in readslist format:

We Are Not Helping + Trojan Horses (locktown of locktown of locktown)
SirCakez + Vecna (townbloc locktown)

Baezu (weak townread)


Lie Ren (nulltown read)

Shuichi Saihara + GuyInFreezer
RadiantCowbells.

[mastina]

This game is very easy to read. People are just too hesitant to townread people for obviously towny shit.

Exactly.

I said it on page seven, and it continues to be true even much much later.

[mastina]

People are just too hesitant to townread people for obviously towny shit.

Or maybe scum doesn't want that happening in this White Flag-ish game where PoEs can be brutal to them.

This, too.

But bombshell time.

In your game.

Which slots do you think are the ones who have been the most vocal in stopping the town cohesion, of stopping townreads, of trying to break townblocs?

You're quite correct in the analysis of, scum don't want people to get a townbloc going because PoE will be brutal to the scum.
So which slots in your game do you think have tried to break unity, to break the townbloc?
Do you think We Are Not Helping is dissolving town unity?
Do you think you are dissolving town unity?
Do you think Vecna is dissolving town unity?
Do you think SirCakez is dissolving town unity?
Do you think Baezu is dissolving town unity? (I'll answer this one, no, by virtue of her being too inactive and passive to do so.)
Do you think Lie Ren is dissolving town unity? (Same as Baezu above to be honest.)
I realize by this metric I also have to ask if you think the GIF slot has dissolved town unity and per the metric above, the answer is obvious (no), but honestly in my earlier readslist he probably should be above Shuichi anyway.

So in your game.
Do you think anyone could be trying to break town unity.
Other than Shuichi and RadiantCowbells?

[mastina]

People are just too hesitant to townread people for obviously towny shit.

Or maybe scum doesn't want that happening in this White Flag-ish game where PoEs can be brutal to them.

This, too.

But bombshell time.

In your game.

Which slots do you think are the ones who have been the most vocal in stopping the town cohesion, of stopping townreads, of trying to break townblocs?

You're quite correct in the analysis of, scum don't want people to get a townbloc going because PoE will be brutal to the scum.
So which slots in your game do you think have tried to break unity, to break the townbloc?
Do you think We Are Not Helping is dissolving town unity?
Do you think you are dissolving town unity?
Do you think Vecna is dissolving town unity?
Do you think SirCakez is dissolving town unity?
Do you think Baezu is dissolving town unity? (I'll answer this one, no, by virtue of her being too inactive and passive to do so.)
Do you think Lie Ren is dissolving town unity? (Same as Baezu above to be honest.)
I realize by this metric I also have to ask if you think the GIF slot has dissolved town unity and per the metric above, the answer is obvious (no), but honestly in my earlier readslist he probably should be above Shuichi anyway.

So in your game.
Do you think anyone could be trying to break town unity.
Other than Shuichi and RadiantCowbells?

To reiterate to you, Trojan Horses.
You hit the nail on the head, hit a smoking gun for your game.

Given this game's mechanics, scum are incentivized to try and break up town cohesion and prevent players from forming townreads on each other.

Given that scum are incentivized to try and break up town cohesion, then, you can analyze your game and look for the players who have broken town cohesion.

No player in your game has broken town cohesion more than RadiantCowbells

.
Ergo, RadiantCowbells is scum, because he is playing to the scum wincon of preventing town cohesion.

[mastina]

I hard townread Suichi btw and he is the person I feel the most in tune with in my game so not at all happy about him being wagoned.

EXPLAIN THIS. What are you in tune with? The posts about "oh this game is so unfun"
YOU LOVE THAT SHIT

Like.
Vecna is literally quoting an instance of RadiantCowbells doing precisely what you pointed out scum want to do, Trojan Horses--of dividing the town and preventing town cohesion and preventing the formation of a functional townbloc.

And yet.

For some magical mystical reason.

You still aren't backing me up that this is RC as scum.

RC this game has been incredibly manipulative and done nothing but continuously divide the town.
That isn't RC as town.
That. is RC as scum.

[mastina]

People townread it why?

Because RC is defending it.

[mastina]

I do not get your thoughts this game RC.

I think youre most likely town

, but I for the life of me, really cannot see a trajectory in your thoughts.

And there's your problem with understanding his thoughts. If you assume he is town, then you can't understand his thoughts, you can't see a trajectory to them.
If you assume he is scum, then his thoughts make perfect sense and there

is

a clear trajectory to them.

[mastina]

There still is this alternate reality where youre doing your scum masterpiece this game, then I come in here and lockscum your partner in -Shuichi or Lie Ren- and you have to fight me over it, but in a subtle way where you put me up as the D2-D3 lynch.

It's amazing that you come so close to the answer on RC and then don't have the magical, "hey, waaaaaait a sec..." realization on him.

[mastina]

You really do not have any good reasons to townread both those slots.

Yeah, exactly.
Wonder why he is?

[mastina]

i really dont have anything to say to someone telling me my reads are all wrong and that their reads are better

That is exactly what you are doing, but without as much as discussing why.

Precisely.

He is doing the very thing he is accusing you of, but not providing reasons to back the reads.

[mastina]

we have nothing to talk about

And people still think this is RC as town for some magical, ~mystical~ reason.

[mastina]

Curious why mastina voted wonderwall over nsg.

Because I only have one vote for three scumreads in my game and I can't vote for a scumread in the other game.

I can apply pressure to multiple slots at once, including yours (nothing you've done has struck me as town and quite the opposite this feels like lurkser-scum-farside rather than the hyperposting town farside that I remember).

I can only vote one at a time.

A lack of a vote doesn't mean a lack of a scumread, it just means that I can't vote all of my scumreads.

[mastina]

so who are we voting for then

You know who I'd advise!

[mastina]

This seems like the typical argument engagement to appear to look good. You know you do those as well RC.

Serious request, Vecna.
Reread RadiantCowbells's iso with your own statement in mind.
That RC as scum knows how to engage in arguments to appear to look good.
And tell me that isn't what he's done this game.

[mastina]

Like, Halloween is just FILLED to the brim with towny looking motherfuckers, and theres only so many people that I feel can fake that shit on a high level. Ceph and RC definately come to mind.

Dont think RC is really doing that here.

One of these days.

When the town is on the verge of losing and, surprise surprise, RC is still alive.

You are going to look back on comments like these and realize.

"I'm a fucking moron."
For having what amounts to whatever you'd call tunnelvisioning on a slot not being scum, refusing to acknowledge your own analysis backing up that the slot is scum, refusing to accept the reality, always making excuses to write the slot off as town in spite of all of your own fucking evidence telling you the slot is scum.

[mastina]

Need to find town in {Baezu, SirCakez, Kylo Ren}

They're all town.

There ya go.

[mastina]

Man, why is it that when I talk to you red flags and angled of weirdness just pop up all over the place lol.

Because over. and over. and over again.
You keep going.
"Man, this thing from RC is suspicious, but nahhhhh, he must be town.
Oh he's doing this other thing which is suspicious, but nahhhhh, he must be town.
He keeps doing scummy shit, but surely he's still town.
Oh, he's yet again doing something which is sketchy, but he still has to be town."

Sooner or later you've gotta face the facts.

[mastina]

top tier scum players are not usually an issue for me. i called both FL and MariaR very early in D1 of the large theme in TM, I have essentially claimed a D1 guilty on LLD before, I am responsible for FAs only lynch on this site as scum.

Yes and you're claiming I'm scum when I am town.

[mastina]

Its not like you have solved the game yet, so why are you trying to fight me this badly. If youre town, why try and make it harder than it has to be?

He is trying to make it harder because that is literally his wincon.

[mastina]

Have you played with mastina before?

Yes but the way

you

are treating me is as if you never had.

[mastina]

If mastina thinks RC is scum why is she not pushing on that read of a player that is actiive and can be engaged with over a player that isi mostly MIA?'

Because...

I don't believe you. But say what you want.

I think your play this game is more likely to come from you as scum than town, and yet it should be stupidly obvious why pushing you in spite of having that belief would be a waste of time. (Namely because if you're town you're dead via nightkill before D3, and also because if you're town you'll give me something that I'll read as town eventually. Plus, would add a lot of noise which is something that I don't see any way of it not being disastrous for the gamestate's health.)

I do agree with the statement that if Mastina is scum vs an NSG AND RC town team her MO has to be to corral people who support her and shade RC/NSG in order to have any chance.

There is value to be had in paragons being alive, if they are town--but they wouldn't be paragons if they were rattled, if they were shaken, by an incorrect scumread on their slot. They wouldn't be paragons if someone incorrectly scumreading them threw them off their beat, threw them off their kilter, kept them from putting in a paragon-level performance.

And there is value to be had in paragons being alive, if they are town--but if they

aren't

town, then why the fuck would I fear pushing scum just off of the value of "what if they're town", given the above? Given that being erroneously scumread shouldn't rattle, shouldn't shake, a paragon winner, there's no reason not to state a scumread on one.

Granted, I have reasonably good reasons to not push the read on RC. He's not in my game so I can't even vote him; there's enough scumspects in his game that given only two of them are scum there's a fair chance that he is town; fighting with RC on D1 is unproductive because even if he is scum he's not getting lynched D1; if RC is town then the scum will nightkill him eventually anyway. All these make it so that I don't really have interest in pushing RC, but that sure as fuck won't stop me from stating a scumread there.

Curious why mastina voted wonderwall over nsg.

Because I only have one vote for three scumreads in my game and I can't vote for a scumread in the other game.

I can apply pressure to multiple slots at once.

I can only vote one at a time.

A lack of a vote doesn't mean a lack of a scumread, it just means that I can't vote all of my scumreads.

^Of this.
Between those three quotes, you should have sufficient enough of an answer.

[mastina]

If mastina thinks RC is scum why is she not pushing on that read of a player that is actiive and can be engaged with over a player that isi mostly MIA?'

Because...

I don't believe you. But say what you want.

I think your play this game is more likely to come from you as scum than town, and yet it should be stupidly obvious why pushing you in spite of having that belief would be a waste of time. (Namely because if you're town you're dead via nightkill before D3, and also because if you're town you'll give me something that I'll read as town eventually. Plus, would add a lot of noise which is something that I don't see any way of it not being disastrous for the gamestate's health.)

I do agree with the statement that if Mastina is scum vs an NSG AND RC town team her MO has to be to corral people who support her and shade RC/NSG in order to have any chance.

There is value to be had in paragons being alive, if they are town--but they wouldn't be paragons if they were rattled, if they were shaken, by an incorrect scumread on their slot. They wouldn't be paragons if someone incorrectly scumreading them threw them off their beat, threw them off their kilter, kept them from putting in a paragon-level performance.

And there is value to be had in paragons being alive, if they are town--but if they

aren't

town, then why the fuck would I fear pushing scum just off of the value of "what if they're town", given the above? Given that being erroneously scumread shouldn't rattle, shouldn't shake, a paragon winner, there's no reason not to state a scumread on one.

Granted, I have reasonably good reasons to not push the read on RC. He's not in my game so I can't even vote him; there's enough scumspects in his game that given only two of them are scum there's a fair chance that he is town; fighting with RC on D1 is unproductive because even if he is scum he's not getting lynched D1; if RC is town then the scum will nightkill him eventually anyway. All these make it so that I don't really have interest in pushing RC, but that sure as fuck won't stop me from stating a scumread there.

Curious why mastina voted wonderwall over nsg.

Because I only have one vote for three scumreads in my game and I can't vote for a scumread in the other game.

I can apply pressure to multiple slots at once.

I can only vote one at a time.

A lack of a vote doesn't mean a lack of a scumread, it just means that I can't vote all of my scumreads.

^Of this.
Between those three quotes, you should have sufficient enough of an answer.

[mastina]

Can we wagon jjh instead?

On principle of respecting my original read I will not join it, on principle of trusting past mastina to have had the read correct, I won't officially endorse it.

But fuckit I've given up on it and surely won't be fighting you on it. If jjh doesn't want to step up, then sure he can let himself die, I'm not going to protect him from it.

[mastina]

cutting out the explanations and just posting the stances:

WANH, dunno
RadiantCowbells, town
Trojan Horses, probably scum but dunno
Lie Ren, dunno
Vecna, dunno, not Trojan partner
Baezu, dunno
SirCakez scummy feelz.

yeaaaaaaaaaaaah

Indeed.

[mastina]

On a side note, I think the fakehammer was very towny for NSG. I believe that fakehammers have a decent chance at producing town reactions, and in a game where solid townreads improve town win % easily, I doubt scum would really test slots that way. Will probably sheep NSG reads barring major disagreements.

I will believe nsg is town when she actually does something with her analysis. Actual hard stances on multiple players especially ones who're hotspots of attention.

[mastina]

SirCakez has such a damn linear progression. Not even an ounce of indication that anything ive written at all has has made him even consider changing his opinion

I mean, yes, that's why I'm so fucking pissed at him for being a tunneling asshat but he's not scum from it.

[mastina]

idk what else to say on this other than I find it ridiculous that it's being construed as a scumslip

Pretty much yes.

There's been at least two, three comments people have said 'was this meant for the scum thread' when it's been pretty apparent no post in this game was meant for a scumthread so all of those accusations were basically just worthless wastes of space.

[mastina]

Anyone here wanna catch me up

Here a catch up for you-
Vote wonderwall
They're scum

Indeed. <3

[mastina]

Anyone else liking Baezu just now, or is that just me?

I mean I've been calling Baezu town the whole game, so.

[mastina]

And my Wonderwall push had hit a brick wall.

Did it, though? Did you try to push for a wagon on them and get everyone saying no? I just don't remember anyone being strongly opposed to lynching them at any point, so I don't see why that would've happened. Why doesn't this make you more determined to push them, if anything?

I mean.
For

some

silly reason.
Players seem to have this weird habit of not wanting to wagon players that aren't around!

And Wonderwall hasn't been around.

So like.

No fucking duh the push on Wonderwall hit a brick wall, when the person you're pushing disappears, you can only push them for so long before people more or less ignore you.

[mastina]

so that's the kind of "mislynch frustration" I'm referring to under my town meta

Oh you absolute fuckhole.

You have no fucking right to call my reactions to my mislynch bad when you say you have mislynch frustration as town.

[mastina]

Mastina viewtopic.php?p=11715110#p11715110 Don't your reads change as the game goes on?

My reads change when they have reason to change--and you can look at this game and

see

my reads

have

changed.
I have changed my reads on Trojan Horses, sorta-jjh (where I really really really

really

don't

want

to change the read, where I really fucking want to trust my original past-me's assessment but it is increasingly hard for me to do so), sorta-your slot where I've gone back and forth on it being town and scum,

technically

Shuichi (not really, but strictly speaking was listed as a townread originally before Ceph posted), Lie Ren, Vecna, and adjusted reads on both Baezu and SirCakez.

My reads change when they have good fucking reason to change.
The players not listed above? We Are Not Helping, RC, Turkey, nsg, Molla, Wonderwall? (Not listed, Elmo or NM/DDL who this doesn't apply to.) They've got DAMN fucking good reasons to have stayed as scum/townreads. (Elmo and NM/DDL? Not so much, I admit that, but like. They're massive piles of mostly null so why not keep the read in a game which feels like it can be solved by poe.)

And why is RC a scum read at that point?

Because everything RadiantCowbells has done this game has been furthering a scum agenda and been incredibly manipulative with zero genuine thoughts, no real scumhunting, no true passion, involved. The closest he's gotten is, after realizing that trying to repeatedly discredit me won't work to dissuade me, his OMGUS push on me.

[mastina]

Like, RC isnt hunting scum, he's in strategic maneuvering mode where he ad-hoc moves his reads around based on his needs and what he feels he can shit public opinion towards, rather than what is actually transpiring in the game. The fact everyone is actually townreading him is not actually town-indicative for that slot whatsoever either.

FINALLY.
<3
<3

Vecna be town town now.

[mastina]

Right now, my mind is back to: 2/3 in (Gamma Emerald slot, Ceph slot, RC slot)

Your chosen lurker is Gamma, mine is GIF. I feel about the way you do on GIF on Gamma, and about the way you do on Gamma about GIF, but otherwise mostly on the same page.

[mastina]

tbh I just want to townread farside lol

I wouldn't--the farside as town I remember was far more active and engaged than this.

I might be biased since I admit I am mostly thinking of her from Steven Universe 2 as that's the game I remember her from, but like.
Compare what she's doing here.
To what she did here.
Her iso in Steven Universe 2 was

six pages long

, and those six pages were filled to the brim with wallposts. A player who not only hyperposted content after content, but churned out wall after wall.

I admit that that's probably not the best metric to use, but it is an amazingly stark contrast that does bias me towards thinking she's scum her.

[mastina]

For my Mastina read, I am not sure about her anymore. Her play does not remind of town!mastina I have personally seen or her play in TM2020.

I've said before and I'll say it again.

There's not one singular mastina gameplay style; there's multiple. Comparable games to this one: Tales of You, Restless Spirits, from about this point onward in Timeshift Mafia, there's some similarities to Krazy's Anime UPick, very strong similarities to Undertale Mafia, similarly strong similarities to King-sized Anime UPick, some from Varsoon's Variety Hour, a metric ton from Final Fantasy VII, and very vaguely Serums and Steel.

Give a few of those a skim then compare them to here.
And my offer for every scumgame I've played still stands, there's been two games since I last compiled it but I can still track it down.

[mastina]

I just more think mastina is scum and I don't know why that wagon has dissipated.

Because there are players in this game who actually know how to fucking read me rather than tunneling me the whole fucking game at the detriment to giving reads elsewhere.

[mastina]

Those quotes I referenced, do you really think Mastina could fake that?

Dunno which quotes you're referring to but already the answer is 'no'.
Recent scumgames:
This; this.
Backing it up a bit...
This; this technically (but I doubt it's pertinent); this; this; this.

This is not nearly an all-inclusive list, like I said, I did make a post with all of my scumgames so can find that fairly quickly.
But it gives you good browsing material for what scumastina can, and can't, do.

The simple answer is: scumastina can't fake anything pretty much. Anything she gives is real.

[mastina]

Can someone with actually decent reads talk to me, because that would be swell? Thanks.

Sure!

In your game, you're town; We Are Not Helping are town; SirCakez is town; Vecna is town.

That leaves five slots remaining.
Baezu is pretty damn town here.

That leaves four slots remaining.
{Lie Ren, GuyInFreezer, RadiantCowbells, Shuichi Saihara} should contain the scum in your half.
I think that this is probably Lie Ren as town but that's not a strong read.

In my game:
Turkey is town; Molla is town; I am town.
I admit it's harder from there.

I have scumreads on Amrun/farside, nsg, and Wonderwall, but I am fully aware of the lackluster nature of jjh, Elmo, and Not_Mafia.
So your half is the easier solve honestly.

[mastina]

Can you link/quote from any specific games where she made posts similar to those, because in all of the games I remember playing with scum!her, I can’t recall any?

He sure can't!

[mastina]

I'm reeeaaallly hoping NSG is indeed town because my game seems easily PoE-able, prolly could just lynch both scum in my game.

It'll become much, much easier once you realize RC is one of them!

[mastina]

A lot of people are townreading at least some of the people in that scum pool in our game and THs last post called everyone in it town and NSG affirmed their lack of support for lynching TH so...

And what do you make of your reads conflicting with those of nsg's which you insist be held in such high esteem?

[mastina]

It's quite possible that your lack of desire isn't because you're scum, but you're still scum.

Ya won't hear me arguing otherwise!

Speaking of, why hasn't Christmas lynched this yet?

I mean, I'm voting him, so.

[mastina]

Why is Mastina voting nsg?

Because I thought at the time she had made a blatant scumplay move and got caught in the act by it not being true.

She continues to be a scumread but I recognize I can't get a lynch there so my vote is best placed elsewhere.

[mastina]

@Mastina, what is your current read on our slot. This is important.

Highest of high town.

[mastina]

I should probably be paying more attention to my game but I think Nsg/Mastina is probably TvT.

It is possible, actually, but I won't believe it until, and I have been trying to find the words for it for a long time but I think I finally have them:

When nsg becomes active even if it's in a passive way, rather than passive even if it's in an active way.
NSG right now is the latter when the former is what I'd need to see to know she's town.

Right now she's being passive. She's still being active, but her activity is still passive.
The nsg as town I know is active--she is a bit reserved so in this activity there is always always ALWAYS a level of passiveness to be had in said activity (to put that in words; she's not the type to brute force a lynch, so much as softly suggest that one lynch might be the most optimal chance at getting a lead in a game), but it is still active.

[mastina]

Mastina hasn't really made a strong case other then tall call post garabage.

My entire fucking iso contains the cases for RC, NSG, Wonderwall, and your slots being scum.

I have posts where I do things other than furthering those reads.
And my posts contain plenty of casing town players, too.
But basically my entire fucking iso is writing cases on players, for them to be town or scum.

You want me to quote it, player by player, to show the towncases/scumcases?

[mastina]

I think farside can be town for this btw

I don't.
I recognize she's not exactly lockscum.

But the farside of the past was notably a lurker as scum and hyperactive as town, and the slot has given basically nothing the entire game. Even farside's current posting is mostly information instead of analysis; she asks questions and she mentions information but she's putting almost zero analysis into it.

As she said about MY slot, it's possible her style has changed--but the shift is awfully jarring and even fucking meta, even discarding it. Just in isolation her content isn't town. Nothing she's doing is in any way shape or form, even remotely hard to produce.

Point me to thoughts that look like they took time and effort for farside to make which it feels like she has followed through on and given more on.

[mastina]

I'm gonna do a full reread later tonight but don't have time for more than the odd post rn

VOTE: jjh

I give up.
I give up.
I can't hold onto it anymore.
I can't hold onto that townread.
I just can't.