SIR Disease Mafia - Game Over!

[Alchemist21]

vote: alchemist

I missed you!!!

VOTE: Farside

I missed you too!

[Alchemist21]

Vecna’s tone feels off in most of his posts.

VOTE: Vecna

[Alchemist21]

Vecna’s tone feels off in most of his posts.

VOTE: Vecna

You know I'm going to want more from you then this as an explanation.

I’m not really sure how to explain it better. It just comes off as awkward and he was a little pockety towards Nero. I’m not confident on the read but I think it’s a better vote than anyone else so far.

[Alchemist21]

in this past ETL gets super angry and ad hommy as both alignments. She seems relatively tame here but then again I've been skimming her and Miss Lynch for a while now.

I’m actually Townreading ETL’s frustration here.

[Alchemist21]

The Fire Alchemist was a lot cooler than this new guy you have, Alchemist. My townread is slipping.

I just changed this avi 2 or 3 days ago and I’m not changing it back. Lol

[Alchemist21]

Townreads on farside, EspeciallyTheLies, Miss Lynch, Vecna.

Alchemist you wanna try and explain what feels off in Vecna's tone? I find certain elements almost exactly matching his play in the last game I've seen him town in, like somewhat exaggerated reasoning to townread someone early.

This wasn't the approach I thought I would see people would take in the game though, considering it's basically a bastard cult game.

I did the best I could when Farside asked.

[Alchemist21]

1 of the three scum

dude what..

Nero. Seriously. I'm starting to wonder if he's legit trying to make it

look

like a scum slip or if it's actually a scumslip.

I’m all for Vecna votes but the setup explicitly states the game starts with 18 Town and 3 Mafia.

P-edit: Beat me to it.

[Alchemist21]

Bottom of 7. It's a work day and posting speed is exceeding reading speed.
I didn't notice the player list that much before. Hype.

VOTE: Hoctac
for making an alt/hydra that I'm going to confuse with too many people.

<in before someone says "ooh, delayed rvs after he had already posted!!!!">

was hoping there'd be a semi serious reason here?

VOTE: hoctac

Why are you questioning Dave’s lack of reasoning while sheeping the vote?

[Alchemist21]

If I understand the setup correct, the scum can only kill twice, and these need to be from the infected pool (which works directly against their win con), so the real challenge is to keep everybody vulnerable to the infection so they can gain parity soon enough.

I think it’s scum can kill from the infected pool every Night and can kill outside it twice.

[Alchemist21]

Vecna’s tone feels off in most of his posts.
VOTE: Vecna

Can someone factcheck/refresh my memory on this:
Lurksack Alchemist is scum Alchemist, right?

False. My activity level has been both high and low as both alignments.

[Alchemist21]

Mastina I want to see you reply to 406

[Alchemist21]

Mastina I want to see you reply to 406

You're not exactly the reliable source to use.
I place a much higher faith in 410 than I do 406.

But it’s something that can be objectively disproven. I just got out of a Towngame where I was in 3-p lylo and had hundreds of posts less than people who died several phases earlier. I can go back and find scum games where I was highly active.

My activity level has never been a good way to read me. Accusing me of lurking when I’ve been posting and the game is less than 24 hours old is also bullshit.

[Alchemist21]

I still hate mastina’s scumread on me but I don’t really get the wagon on her.

[Alchemist21]

Who puts down multiple votes in the same post?

Why did you vote Hoctac if you don’t like the wagon?

[Alchemist21]

Who puts down multiple votes in the same post?

(...)

I do:

Spoiler:

VOTE: momo
VOTE: 5G Tower
VOTE: momo
VOTE: 5G Tower
VOTE: momo
VOTE: 5G Tower

I wanted to have the longest chain in this post:

Spoiler:

Voting History:

This tracks who voted whom each day. Each line is formatted like Player A (2): Player B (2) --> Player C (3) where Player A is the person voting, player A votes player B in post #2, and player A votes player C in post #3. The use of ==> instead of --> indicates that the vote was not changed from its current target.

Key: * = L-1 Vote; + = Hammer Vote.

Day 1

Auro: No łynch (56) --> mastina (435)
Hoctac: No Lynch (134) --> (Null) (165) --> No Lynch (278) --> No łynch (288) --> Saudade (349) --> Vecna (392) --> EspeciallyTheLies (398)
Vecna: Auro (16) --> Hoctac (137) --> mastina (427)
No łynch: 5G Tower (149) ==> 5G Tower (246) --> Hoctac (361) --> mastina (480)
Alchemist21: farside22 (87) --> Vecna (124)
Elements: Hoctac (239) --> (Null) (242)
Flavor Leaf: mastina (448) --> (Null) (449)
farside22: Alchemist21 (10) --> Hoctac (145) --> Tchill13 (319)
davesaz: Hoctac (298)
EspeciallyTheLies: mastina (6) --> Miss Lynch (35) --> Vecna (96) --> Auro (173) --> Hoctac (186) --> Hoctac (275) --> mastina (436)
50 Judge Powers: Flavor Leaf (310) --> (Null) (369) --> Saudade (496)
mastina: EspeciallyTheLies (397)
Miss Lynch: EspeciallyTheLies (14) --> No Lynch (262) --> No łynch (279) --> mastina (454) --> (Null) (489)
Nero Cain: Miss Lynch (12) --> Vecna (45)
Tchill13: EspeciallyTheLies (160) --> (Null) (214) --> Vecna (216) --> (Null) (309) --> Hoctac (312)
Saudade: mastina (429)

But I just ended up getting a fancy arrow instead. Not half bad if you ask me.

You didn’t answer my second question about your Hoctac vote.

[Alchemist21]

Fuck I thought I was talking to 5G still. The Hoctac vote question was meant for them.

[Alchemist21]

Who puts down multiple votes in the same post?

Why did you vote Hoctac if you don’t like the wagon?

I can dislike the wagon while being on it.

Why did you join the wagon?

[Alchemist21]

im sorry if i dont just take your word for it, can someone

else

confirm

I mean my games are public record so it's not like I'd be lying about easily-confirmed, easily-provable information that is readily available for anyone to search up on their own.

There’s a karmic irony here.

[Alchemist21]

You're surely the same person as No łynch.

I trust 5G Tower with my life. Only until 6G is a thing though.

Well who knows when that’s gonna be?

[Alchemist21]

I still hate mastina’s scumread on me but I don’t really get the wagon on her.

Now, FL, this is a much better example of a person that is extremely not self-aware

How does my post about the Mastina wagon show a lack of self-awareness?

[Alchemist21]

Don’t sleep on Alchemist

I wouldn't. Doubt he's very comfy.

It’s true, I’m all bones.

[Alchemist21]

Why I'm having trouble getting a good read on players and feeling lost.

This game has a small number of scum for it’s size, so finding scum is going to be significantly harder than usual. Combine that with a chunk of players not taking the game so seriously because of the nature of the setup and I’m not surprised at the difficulty of getting good reads here.

[Alchemist21]

Combine that with a chunk of players not taking the game so seriously because of the nature of the setup and I’m not surprised at the difficulty of getting good reads here.

Yeah, I get what you are saying here. It's a true statement. However, I don't really think you have demonstrated taking the game seriously yet. I get you are more of a "serious player" but I haven't really seen you do anything yet.

That’s fair. I know I don’t have a lot content-wise yet, and I honestly don’t expect anyone who knows me to be able to read me one way or the other yet. I can kinda get Vecna’s scumread on me because my playstyle this game is one that’s usually scumread by people who don’t know me. I hate Mastina’s scumread on me because I would think by now she should know better than to read my by how much I’m posting instead of what I’m actually saying, but I don’t think it’s necessarily scummy of her to be wrong in that regard.

[Alchemist21]

@Alchamist21

I believe you were in a game I was in. One game is moot but I have played with you before. I was in a hydra with someone in that game so you might not know that I was in that game.

Any chance I can get a few reads from you IF you have any?

It’s pretty much all Townreads.

With the early ETL/Miss Lynch stuff I thought ETL looked really Towny and and Miss Lynch looked more likely Town than not.

Farside looks Town to me. She’s coming back to the site after being away for years and people back then usually gave reasons for their votes instead of wagoning for wagoning’s sake so it makes sense to me that she’s be thrown off and all the loose votes being thrown around. I’m not even sure she was active back when spamposting was a huge issue.

Tchill I’m Townreading. I had a bit of doubt when he made that weird vote but from what I remember scum Tchill has very little thread presence and his latest posts are what I’d expect from Town Tchill.

I haven’t moved my vote off Vecna because I have no strong pings yet, but I’m not really married to my vote here. I think 3 different people said this is what Town Vecna looks like so I probably am wrong here.

It wouldn’t surprise me if 1-2 scum were in the people who had to be replaced. Someone pointed out Momo confirmed and didn’t post, and Creature’s an easy read so if that’s scum it should be apparent soon enough.

[Alchemist21]

She’s coming back to the site after being away for years and people back then usually gave reasons for their votes instead of wagoning for wagoning’s sake so it makes sense to me that she’s be thrown off and all the loose votes being thrown around. I’m not even sure she was active back when spamposting was a huge issue

Does this apply to her since this is NOT her first game back. And ppl have been blindly sheeping since as long as mafia has been around so I don't really feel like thats a valid excuse for her to "thrown off"

I mostly agree with Quick that your wagon seems random and reasonless but this was kinda I thought

It depends on what her other games looked like. Not every game has lolwagons but they’re a lot more common than they were several years ago.

[Alchemist21]

Stop it. Stop saying “ISO me”. I’ve done that already. You didn’t explain anything. If you were suspicious of tchill why did you wait until other people voted him for you?

Because no one wanted to vote for worthless spots...

And worthless spots are bad in this game because there are not many NKs.

Also I don’t get this comment. From my understanding the scum still get a nk... and twice they can also kill an infected person. Is that wrong?

"not many" does not mean "none". I am a lot more careful with the language I use than mastina is.

Ok but “not many” implies “less than expected”, and it seems to me this game actually gets 2 MORE nightkills than expected. Just trying to understand.

AFAIK, Mafia ONLY get 2 kills, not all their NKs and on top of that +2 NKs. That is how I read it, but I could be wrong.

Mafia can infect someone each Night and can NK within the pool of infected players. They get 2 kills outside of that.

[Alchemist21]

Setup is confusing. Why would mafia kill a recruitee?

I think there’s something we’re missing.

Town can recruit infected players back?

That would be cool I think. Like if you get infected but not killed you

OH. THATS HOW YOU GAIN IMMUNITY MAYBE? Like IRL, getting infected with a virus, you fight it, get antibodies and become IMMUNE.

That makes a lot of sense.

[Alchemist21]

I wonder if it would benefit us to announce if we’ve been infected? There’s bound to be someone with the ability to target infected with a cure or something.

That would probably be the most optimal move but is probably also considered as playing against your new wincon. Whoever gets infected should check with the mod about that if the mod doesn’t just shoot down the idea in thread.

[Alchemist21]

I don’t remember what is an arsonist

They go around dousing people in gas each Night and then on a single night they ignite the gas and kill everyone they doused.

[Alchemist21]

I don’t remember what is an arsonist

They go around dousing people in gas each Night and then on a single night they ignite the gas and kill everyone they doused.

Gross.... ok. Well.... I have to trust that town is equally stacked then.

Gotta have faith-uh faith-uh faith-AHHH

I don’t think thoughts and prayers will help much.

[Alchemist21]

When I have time tonight I’m going to look through Auro’s ISO because I feel like I should be able to have a read on him by now and I just don’t so maybe I’ve missed something in his posts but I do think it’s kinda weird his alignment isn’t jumping out at me.

[Alchemist21]

That's odd. You didn't townread me in the mini normal game we played recently, yeah?

I can’t really remember about D1. I think I had a Townlean there, but now that we’ve argued in a previous game I feel like I should have a better enough idea of how you play to have a better read this time.

[Alchemist21]

Probably locktown, never a day1 lynch:
8. Vecna+
17. mastina+*
18. Miss Lynch+
19. Nero Cain+
20. Tchill13+
21. Saudade+
2. Auro+
7. Allan90 Quick+
15. EspeciallyTheLies+

Done significant stuff that makes them likely town. Also not lynch today
13. farside22+
14. davesaz+
11. Elements+

Not done anything:
10. Alchemist21+
12. Flavor Leaf+
16. 50 Judge Powers+
4. 5G Tower+
5. Jake the Wolfie+* ^
6. Odelschwanck Aristophanes+

Actually done stuff that I think is scummy for the slot, Prime lynch pool:
1. momo+ Creature+
3. Hoctac+
9. No łynch+ Voted+

This game really is easy. If those 6 people can just obvtown right about now, the scum can just concede

What do the symbols by everyone’s name mean?

[Alchemist21]

@Auro

Last game we played, when someone pushed you you would poke holes in their scumread by asking them questions that would show they didn’t have a solid case. It’s like you wanted them to think through the line of logic themselves to see that they were wrong and to me it would come off as scum you acting like “you can’t catch me because you don’t have a good case.” I’m not really seeing that from you this game as much as you just bluntly shooting down suspicion of you. Why is that?

[Alchemist21]

Everyone has a +

Some have ^ and * too.

[Alchemist21]

I would bluntly shoot down your suspicion by denying I'm doing that

I can see why you get that feeling, and you're partly correct - but my tone should be expected to differ when I'm pushing back suspicion from slots I'm strongly townreading, versus when I feel disingenuity and use the push as a springboard to scumhunt the slot pushing me (where the Socratic method is very useful). The sample size here is 2: Vecna and ML. In Vecna's case, I *did* ask him a bunch of question aimed at re-evaluation; but I assign a higher degree of criticality (and information from experience) to his reading me, and townread him. In ML's case, I both strongly townread her, and had much lesser patience to start with, thus leading to a very direct "shooting down" style of defense.

I can see that.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Creature

Creature and Ari are both likely scum.

[Alchemist21]

Alch, can you explain the Creature scumread?

Creature doesn’t really try as scum, and I have yet to see him try this games. I’d expect an influx of comments and reads fro Town Creature.

[Alchemist21]

Actually, @Alchemist21, I have a question for you...

Do you actually think you caught 2/3 of the Scum on D1?

Idk. My reads there would change if they can come in and turn it around, but I do still think scum were in the slots that had to be replaced and Creature replaced Momo.

[Alchemist21]

P(A and B) is small doesn't mean P(A|B) is zero

Yeah, except Alchemist said that he caught 2/3 of the Scum team on D1 so chances are one of them is wrong regardless of if Alchemist is Town or Scum.

Do THAT calculation because it's a lot more fun.

When did I say that? It’s true I usually have a correct scumread on D1 but I’m not certain both Creature and Ari are scum.

[Alchemist21]

I really don’t get where Quick is coming from with this.

P-edit: It means there’s a good chance scum is somewhere in that group. When someone says “scum is in this group” it’s commonly understood on this site to mean “at least 1 scum is here.”

[Alchemist21]

No. Tell us.

[Alchemist21]

So why not give him more time?

@Alch

I’ve seen him rep in and start the kind of posts I’m looking for within 24 hours rather than stalling.

[Alchemist21]

Nero Cain
Auro
Vecna
No łynch/Voted

Miss Lynch

Hoctac

farside22
Quick
Tchill13

Saudade
Flavor Leaf
Alchemist21
50 Judge Powers
davesaz
Elements
5G Tower



Jake the Wolfie

momo/Creature
Aristophanes

EspeciallyTheLies

Updated readslist. As mentioned, Auro moves to locktown. You might note a gap between Miss Lynch and Hoctac--that is not my read on Hoctac degrading, so much as it is my read on Miss Lynch having grown stronger; Miss Lynch is at the point where I am

almost

moving her up to the locktown section. She's

that

strong of a townread.

Hoctac is still a very strong townread, and farside/Quick/Tchill are still strong townreads, with the entire Saudade-5G list being townreads. (Not leantowns, not nulltowns, not weak towns, well and true, proper, town

reads

.) Each of these townreads has reason behind it, though the 5G one as I have stated previously

is

reliant on ETL being scum. (5G would move down to be around Jake's level, just above Jake, if ETL were to flip town.)

Jake's content sucks ass, but of the three lurkers is the least-likely to be scum.
Both Creature and Aristophanes are highly likely to be scum here, with Ari being a worse offender than Creature for how condemning this would be.

Why is 5G a Townread?

[Alchemist21]

there are no jesters in this game, silly willy. ETL prob just believes she's a martyr. There's the possibility that this is a scum bus, I G.

It’s a pretty bad bus if it is.

[Alchemist21]

It’s very o visually too though.

[Alchemist21]

Ok Creature might be about to start Town posting.

UNVOTE:

[Alchemist21]

I see what you did there.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Aristophanes

[Alchemist21]

What is your read on EtL?

Town.

And yes the Ari/Creature reads were for lurking.

[Alchemist21]

I think I recall one player said Ari made an excuse for his game play early as scum

that was me. Ari is going to be a low content/fluff poster regardless of alignment. "Lurking" is a good way to get pushed. And Ari knows all this. So in my mind, it was not outside the realms of impossibility that Ari comes in and gives himself an excuse for why he's not posting. Like I'm not accusing him of lying or anything but he would know if he was scum so telling us he's just too busy to post and that he's defiantly not not posting here b/c he's scum seems like a thing. IDK

I thought Ari usually put in effort as Town?

[Alchemist21]

I am disappoint that Farside replaced out.

Same

[Alchemist21]

Y’all ready for me to takeover yet or nah?

As long as you don’t fake a guilty again.

[Alchemist21]

Aristophanes is clearly scum. We get a good wagon going on scum and out come these dumb counterwagons on Voted and Quick. With really bad logic too.
Voted voted for the first person who asked him to sheep them.
Quick has been doing this all game, why suddenly notice and vote it now?

I'm telling you why, because Ari is scum and he needs to be saved.

I've never seen more obvious resistance in my life. Vote Aristophanes please.

???

I'm here because of a prod and had kinda forgotten about the game entirely. I am sorry about that, but I don't forget about games as scum and I would not be worth saving in this instance. I've been asked to replace out of games before by my team because of inactivity and obliged. I likely would have done the same here. However there was nobody to ask me to do that so I remain

Am I being wagoned? Hopefully actually posting will change this.

I mean.
Scum do not have daytalk.

Yes they do. The 1st rule of the setup states that all PT’s have Daytalk.

[Alchemist21]

yOu CanT rEAd mE b00N

That's why

Didn’t he get it right last game?

[Alchemist21]

I wanted to see Alchemist's reaction

Do you mean Ari's?

[Alchemist21]

ETL feels like newbscum

She has a 2013 join date.

[Alchemist21]

Wait for the replacement and when (s)he posts for the first time THEN hammer it!

Strange thing to say. Either we wait for content or we don't wait. I'm on the wait for content side, and one post ain't gonna cut it.
Of course I'd have a hard time remembering anything you've posted that wasn't strange.

I think Voted just wants to troll the replacement.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Ari

Could also vote Hoctac tbh.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Ari

Could also vote Hoctac tbh.

You are still on Ari?

Obviously

[Alchemist21]

anyways i can find cures

so infected claim you got infected, ill cure you tonight

We’ve talked about this D1. Claiming infected to get cured is considered playing against the Infected wincon.

[Alchemist21]

anyways i can find cures

so infected claim you got infected, ill cure you tonight

We’ve talked about this D1. Claiming infected to get cured is considered playing against the Infected wincon.

mod say?

Yes. Hold on and I’ll pull up the quotes.

[Alchemist21]

I wonder if it would benefit us to announce if we’ve been infected? There’s bound to be someone with the ability to target infected with a cure or something.

That would probably be the most optimal move but is probably also considered as playing against your new wincon. Whoever gets infected should check with the mod about that if the mod doesn’t just shoot down the idea in thread.

Oh. Good point.

Claiming scum by yourself or with other players is fine provided that it is clear to the moderator you are not attempting to throw the game.

@mod: HYPOTHETICALLY speaking, if an infected person were to claim they were infected for the purpose of hoping someone had a cure, Would it be considered throwing the game?

Since you should strive to achieve your current win condition, this would likely count as not playing towards your win condition. (Getting cured does not advance the Infected win condition.)

[Alchemist21]

Please dont turn this game into a game theory discussion

I’m trying to keep people from getting modkilled here.

[Alchemist21]

reserved

I wonder if it would benefit us to announce if we’ve been infected? There’s bound to be someone with the ability to target infected with a cure or something.

That would probably be the most optimal move but is probably also considered as playing against your new wincon. Whoever gets infected should check with the mod about that if the mod doesn’t just shoot down the idea in thread.

Oh. Good point.

Claiming scum by yourself or with other players is fine provided that it is clear to the moderator you are not attempting to throw the game.

@mod: HYPOTHETICALLY speaking, if an infected person were to claim they were infected for the purpose of hoping someone had a cure, Would it be considered throwing the game?

Since you should strive to achieve your current win condition, this would likely count as not playing towards your win condition. (Getting cured does not advance the Infected win condition.)

Fwiw, given the time of the out/in, there is very very small chance poka could have known this.

Meaning? Are you suggesting he was trying to get someone modkilled or that he was trying to look proTown by claiming to be able to cure people?

[Alchemist21]

Hot take: Alchemist is confirmed Scum based on my super secret analysis of his play.

VOTE: Alchemist

Nero doesn't seem to want to take me up on pushing Tchill so I will do this. Which I really have zero idea why everyone is giving Tchill such respect at this point, but it's whatevs.

And Tchill is Scum based on meta as well. Will link the game I am thinking of where I literally screamed that Tchill was Scum and then FL screamed at me back for, get this, not believing his claim.

GLHF.

Terrible takes.

[Alchemist21]

y is tchill town?

Tchill isn’t avoiding the game like I think he would as scum.

What are your reads right now?

[Alchemist21]

Actually, her shameless self-meta was towny.

I'm gonna be mad if most of the scum are in the lurker/memeslots which I refuse to vote.

Why do you refuse to vote those slots?

[Alchemist21]

13. gobbledygook
16. 50 Judge Powers
17. mastina
20. Tchill13

as of right now this is kind where I wanna go today.

Wasn't in love with Masina's reaction to getting scum read and the "as promised" seems slimey to me.

tchil's hard town read of ETL doesn't make a ton of sense to me. I've played with tchill a ton and it feels like ETL

ate

ing is something that he normally questions.

Wasn't in love with farside's content and gobble has been kinda a lurksack.

50's main contributing being mechanics seems scummy. If Dave does flip scum his light defense of a50 could be buddy play

but so could quicks....

but Quick is also bad enough to be scummy without being scum. Kinda wanna pl him though...

Strongly disagree with the Mastina read as well. I could see Gobbledy or 50 as scum though.

[Alchemist21]

more Dave votes plox

No. While I found his rather unnecessarily annoyed attitude a bit scummy, I think as scum he'd continue to exhibit and direct play with that attitude exclusively.

Posting a readslist with some progress towards a solve doesn't fit with that. If the intent were to "look towny" he'd probably easily have more solid stances on most of the plist.

Dave gets annoyed or angry as Town. When he’s not angry he doesn’t seem like the type of person who would get angry in thread and it usually gets him scumread by people who haven’t seen it before.

[Alchemist21]

y is tchill town?

Tchill isn’t avoiding the game like I think he would as scum.

What are your reads right now?

WHAT?

explain this. because thats a hell of a dig.

Iirc you don’t post much when you’re scum. Unless I’m confusing you with Transcend.

[Alchemist21]

Dave gets annoyed or angry as Town

@nero: here's a link. Don't know why it's so long.
viewtopic.php?t=81703&f=3&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

Doesn't really seem angry or annoyed too me?

It’s not every game and I’m not saying anger is a Towntell for him, it’s just not a scumtell.

[Alchemist21]

Iirc you don’t post much when you’re scum.

I dont feel like this is accurate but I have done it one game just to see how it is

I only remember the one game though.

Was it this one? viewtopic.php?f=3&t=82957

Lmao he’s actually posting in this one though.

[Alchemist21]

Lmao he’s actually posting in this one though.

That's why I linked, he said he did post higher as scum in one game to see how it is, no?

Thought he was saying the opposite, that he only lurked out in one scum game.

[Alchemist21]

this seems like a very different tchill then the loud obnoxious one I've played with many times b4.

5. This game possesses modified win conditions. They are listed below:
5a. Town Win Condition: Eliminate the mafia conspirers and all infected players.
5b. Town Alternate Win Condition: Have half or more of all living players

gain permanent immunity

to the disease.
5c. Mafia/Infected Win Condition: Gain parity with the town.
6. Twice per game, mafia may kill any player that they choose. Aside from those two instances, mafia possess the ability to factionally infect a player and to

kill an infected player

each night.
7. Infected players will flip as "XYZ Role changed to ABC role" as appropriate.

Some mechanical deductions, dunno if they were arrived at earlier but here:

• Immunity is a thing.
  
• Either immunity is a preventative thing, or an effect that happens after infection.
  
• If it was the former (i.e. once infected, forever infected) there's no reason for scum to be able to kill an infected player. Therefore, we're in the case where
  infected can be cured
  .
  
• If infected can be "cured",
  they would not possess knowledge of the mafia team
  .
  
• Thus, the infected have a malleable win-con, in that they
  choose
  their win-con. The aim of the game is to win. If it was
  certainty
  that a claimed infected could be cured, and they have a honest belief that they have equal/higher chances to win as town than as infected, they can freely out; I wouldn't consider this as throwing, and I'm surprised why the mod thinks it is. Although it's not a certainty, I think it has decent chances.
  
• -Redacted-
  
• If an infected person was trying to play to the infected win-con without outing, and given that we've deduced they don't know the scum team, how would they approach the game?
  How would their approach differ from D1 in terms of achieving the lynches they want?

I've redacted one part of these deductions for a reason, so don't ask

To hone in on infected, simply find players who were making genuine stances on D1 and aren't now.

The consensus reached in the MD thread about cult games is that you play to your current wincon. Infected playing to get cured would be like Town playing to get infected/recruited.

As for how different Infected would play differently, my guess is that they’d play it like an uninformed Traitor. I agree with your last sentence, that’s probably the best way to find Infected barring PR actions.

[Alchemist21]

P.S. If there’s any player I’d expect to be able to pick out the differences in someone’s posts to know that they’re infected, it would be Flavor Leaf.

[Alchemist21]

Mastina and Nahdia both Town af.

I know she shouldn’t say it out loud but I kinda want to know what Mastina’s looking for from Creature.

[Alchemist21]

UNVOTE:

shes not getting lynched today. Wall posts= town right?

VOTE: suadade

The actual content of her posts is Town. She’s laying out every single read in a way that anyone can see the progression and how they’ve developed. I also doubt scum goes this hard on a self meta argument.

[Alchemist21]

The actual content of her posts is Town. She’s laying out every single read in a way that anyone can see the progression and how they’ve developed. I also doubt scum goes this hard on a self meta argument.

scum cant do that? Just because she has more time and effort she's town right? cool.

I mean... yeah lol. You sound unhappy about this development, though. Are you unhappy because of the principle of the reads on Mastina or is it something else?

its a bit annoying that you can just effort your way to town with multiple long posts.

I understand the progressions make sense but if everyone was town for that scum wins would be pretty damn easy.

It’s not about the effort as much as being able to clearly see her thought process, and I don’t see any scum motivation in what she’s saying.

[Alchemist21]

The actual content of her posts is Town. She’s laying out every single read in a way that anyone can see the progression and how they’ve developed. I also doubt scum goes this hard on a self meta argument.

scum cant do that? Just because she has more time and effort she's town right? cool.

I mean... yeah lol. You sound unhappy about this development, though. Are you unhappy because of the principle of the reads on Mastina or is it something else?

its a bit annoying that you can just effort your way to town with multiple long posts.

I understand the progressions make sense but if everyone was town for that scum wins would be pretty damn easy.

It’s not about the effort as much as being able to clearly see her thought process, and I don’t see any scum motivation in what she’s saying.

Can you talk a bit more about "reading between the lines" of mastinias posts, because this seems a bit TMI.

Scum Mastina is the type of person to always have some kind of agenda. What scum agenda do you or anyone scumreading her see in her posts?

[Alchemist21]

Creature has zero "bite" in any of his posts so he is probably Scum here.

Not like I actually expect this comment to generate any reactions or anything, just stating a fact.

Is that what you think Mastina is looking for as well?

[Alchemist21]

I pm'd the mod and just got this, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

Anyone else got the same??

I knew what the link was going to be and clicked it anyway

I’ve asked the mod as well and am waiting for the reply.

[Alchemist21]

we really need this to be a 20 player game and have more people push the envelope, otherwise the people who actually exist in thread now are just going to move on and stop playing

yeah youre looking at the same 8ish ppl posting in circles. Its a bit hard to play that way when theres more than double the active players.

I think youre jake stance has merit tbh.

I think so too about Jake but I’m waiting to make sure the mod’s response isn’t an unexpected one.

[Alchemist21]

@Hoctac

why was I not sent fruit last night?

@Hoctac

why was I not sent fruit last night?

Because you being Scum prevents said fruit from coming to you. J/K

Or you’re the scum grubhub driver who steals the food you’re supposed to deliver.

Scum Visitor labeled as scum Grubhub driver would actually be a pretty funny role for this game.

[Alchemist21]

Mod told me players know when they become Infected.

VOTE: Jake

I also asked if players know if they become immune but the mod wouldn’t answer that one.

[Alchemist21]

@Flavor Leaf, except for 2 times in the game, scum have to kill in the Infected players. If scum ever want you dead you are likely getting Infected.

[Alchemist21]

If Jake’s Town I can’t imagine how he phrased the question to get a different answer from everyone else who asked.

Maybe everyone should ask if players know if they become immune like I did and see if they get the same non-response. I can’t really see the difference in how I asked the two questions making a difference in getting an actual answer but maybe it does.

[Alchemist21]

Dave looks like an infected player who thinks Quick is his partner

How confident are you on the Dave read?

[Alchemist21]

Hoctac throws a tennis ball at Jake, narrowly missing his right-hand index finger.

"Next one's not gonna miss, Jake."

What? Is there a reference I’m missing here?

[Alchemist21]

I could see where this maybe a case of 1 scum active posting to control the game and the other 2 lurking hardcore.

This is pretty much the consensus that’s being reached.

[Alchemist21]

I don’t really see Quick as scum here tbh.

[Alchemist21]

everytime i feel like narrowing my pool someone does something to keep it open

no fucking way jake,quick,nero,tse are all town. they are forming a mini bloc of their own and it just feels so wrong

Who would you say is most and least likely scum in that group?

[Alchemist21]

If death is needed for progress than so be it

Stalin is that you?

[Alchemist21]

like if you guys really dont like what im doing i can just low effort and coast, i dont care too much for mafia right now, and it should be evidenced by the fact that i replaced into a cultgame when i almost exclusively play very normal setups/opens/vanilla~mountain-esque setups

I’m actually enjoying your posts.

[Alchemist21]

Maybe I was wrong to doubt Auro. This is looking pretty Towny from him.

[Alchemist21]

i feel lazy, if i can get a second and third on vecna ill drop tse for now

I can’t remember who exactly but at least 2 people D1 were saying Vecna was playing like Town Vecna.

[Alchemist21]

alright im gonna post just a bit

{OkaPoka}
{Auro, davezac}
=smol gap=
{Alchemist}
{Ari}
{TSE, 50}
{Creature, Hoctac, gobbledygook, Voted}
{Tchill, Jake, Flavor Leaf}
{mastina, 5G, Quick}
=gap=
{Saudade, Nero Cain}

auro gains a lot of points for his PoEing approach. it feels genuine, like he's actually trying to solve. i think the way he's reading is naive and he's likely townreading at least one scum, but still.

oka continues to be obvtown, as was their predecessor, and the way Nero is just tossing shade his way is scummy. feeling reasonably confident there, when combined with other stuff ive said about him. i also don't like the way he's singling me out when the things he's accusing me of are half the playerbase rn.
Quick... i saw something yesterday when reading up that made me think he's scum, but now idr what that was, and i feel far less certain on him that i do on Saudade and Nero. ill ISO Quick later and see if im still comfy with my vote there. but if im being super honest, im not picky with my push right now. still think we just need more info here more than anything.

Maybe I was wrong to doubt Auro. This is looking pretty Towny from him.

hooray syncronicity. was getting a bit paranoid of ari and alchemist but alch moves back up a rung.

Also, this really deserves to be wagoned. Is anyone TRing this slot or is this slot just going to slide to Endgame?

I am Townreading her.

[Alchemist21]

I am Townreading her.

y?

About the same reason I’m Townreading Mastina.

[Alchemist21]

old Ranger

I never knew that was you.

[Alchemist21]

About the same reason I’m Townreading Mastina.

ok y?

Transparency in their thoughts.

[Alchemist21]

honestly where is gobbles

You’re a Spring Chicken. Gobbledygook is a Thanksgiving Turkey.

[Alchemist21]

old Ranger

I never knew that was you.

it wasn't, i just emulated their style.

Oh lol

[Alchemist21]

I got caught up.. kind of.. and then I wanted to post and.. well.. I couldn't remember a single thing of what I had intended to comment about. Now this is why I usually post while catching up and I have no friggin' idea what made me decide I wanted to do it differently this time.

Also, my bloody internet is on and off all the time now, so it's a massive let down to try to click ANYTHING at all

How much you wanna bet 5G is responsible for your internet issues?

[Alchemist21]

I disagree immensely that we should only be focusing on Jake/Quick but with 5 days till deadline I doubt anyone gets lynched but them. I think my criticism of the Jake wagon is valid here. Still don't really think that a scum Jake who knew that infected know they are infected sorta CC's voted there. It would have to be VERY VERY poor scum play if it was. I mean, it's not really impossible since scum I could see a newb scum go "hey, I'm going to throw some doubt on Voted and get him lynched!" If he's town though he'll make an ez hedge 4 scum and eat our night actions so he makes for a decent d2 lynch. Consider my vote on Jake is sprit and I'll move there when I have to.

Outside of Jake and Nahdia who would you vote?

[Alchemist21]

And I am not saying you "for sure" slipped, but I am def taking it into consideration that you knew there was curers and claimed to be that role until you turned around and flipped your claim to VT. I still don't see any Town motive in claiming to be Curer from the onset of you posting here if you are just VT ftr.

We just got out of a game where a Town VT claimed roleblocker to draw a NK. That would be the Town motivation.

[Alchemist21]

And I am not saying you "for sure" slipped, but I am def taking it into consideration that you knew there was curers and claimed to be that role until you turned around and flipped your claim to VT. I still don't see any Town motive in claiming to be Curer from the onset of you posting here if you are just VT ftr.

We just got out of a game where a Town VT claimed roleblocker to draw a NK. That would be the Town motivation.

But Oka knew there was curers in the game before reading said game. That's what this hinges on.

Yeah that is a little iffy but it’s something that could be guessed. ETL guessed the existence of such a role as a Town Mailman. And if the goal is to bluff scum into thinking you have a certain role then showing a certainty about its existence is expected imo.

[Alchemist21]

I disagree immensely that we should only be focusing on Jake/Quick but with 5 days till deadline I doubt anyone gets lynched but them. I think my criticism of the Jake wagon is valid here. Still don't really think that a scum Jake who knew that infected know they are infected sorta CC's voted there. It would have to be VERY VERY poor scum play if it was. I mean, it's not really impossible since scum I could see a newb scum go "hey, I'm going to throw some doubt on Voted and get him lynched!" If he's town though he'll make an ez hedge 4 scum and eat our night actions so he makes for a decent d2 lynch. Consider my vote on Jake is sprit and I'll move there when I have to.

Outside of Jake and Nahdia who would you vote?

[Alchemist21]

ANYWAYS NOW I WILL STOP POSTING

LOGGING OFF BYE

Spoiler:

[Alchemist21]

Outside of Jake and Nahdia who would you vote?

other than a pl on Creature

I kinda think there's scum in

12. Flavor Leaf
13. gobbledygook
14. davesaz
16. 50 Judge Powers
20. Tchill13

Outside of maybe Gobbledy I don’t really like any of these choices.

[Alchemist21]

u r being very jokey and trolly this game....

Jokey of course. I don’t really see trolly though.

And joking around isn’t unusual for me. I know I have a rep as a more serious player but I joke around too.

[Alchemist21]

(Basically, to summarize: There is a very very very small chance Jake is town, but that is unlikely. The most likely options are that Jake is either the Infected or is original groupscum. I think the former is overall more likely than the latter, thus, not the most optimal of lynches, but the chance of the latter is what makes the lynch acceptable so I will be voting there when I am satisfied that all the slots who will produce content, have.)

The thought of Jake just being Infected crossed my mind but why would scum choose him to Infect?

[Alchemist21]

remind me who u think is scum, Alch?

Jake has a good chance to be scum. Ari is also likely scum to me. There’s a number of null slots I’d be willing to lynch as well like 5G and Hoctac.

[Alchemist21]

Holy beetlejuice batman!

[Alchemist21]

I'm still NULL, Alchemist? Lazy take.

Who would you lynch today?

[Alchemist21]

So whats the deal with 'infection'?

Is it a 'once a night, infect a player _or_ kill them' type of bit?

Scum Infect players and can kill in the pool of Infected players. They get 2 additional kills outside of that.

[Alchemist21]

What is the aliment shifting that was mentioned in the replacement thread?

Becoming Infected changes your alignment and wincon to a scum one.

[Alchemist21]

I can see the arguments of scumBlair taking a safe stance on Jake. I’ve never really subscribed to the Amished tell though.

[Alchemist21]

If Jake’s actually scum though it makes Blair a lot more likely to be Town.

[Alchemist21]

sorry what's the amished tell? cant find anything on the wiki about it.

When a replacement calls the player they replaced scummy.

[Alchemist21]

UNVOTE:

Let’s not have 2 self-voter lynches 2 Days in a row.

[Alchemist21]

Like, my role has, to paraphrase it, a clause specifying, "if your target has the disease (including on the night you target them)". This runs in stark contrast to Blair's alleged role, which according to Blair, not only wasn't specified, but after asking a question which should've been resolved in the original PM,

Update: My role resolves before an infection, in the event they occur on the same player in the same night.

...Doesn't match the resolution on my role.

Blair's claimed role lacks a specified interaction which is present in my role, and the alleged interaction is different from the one stated in my role.

So. Balance of probability--probably a fakeclaim.

My role lacks any specifics too but I got a clear answer when I asked the mod. Blair isn’t lying just because her role PM didn’t mention that specific interaction.

[Alchemist21]

Jake, Nhadia, dave, Ari >Town

Auro, Oka > Town Lean

Alch, Tchill, Nero, Gobble, Piss >Slight Town

mastina, TSE > Null

Voted >Slight Scum

Blair, Hactoc > Scum Lean

FL > Scum

Note: I am taking out Creature and Saudade's posts completely. A50 and 5G are completely unsolvable at this point in the game. If A50 and 5G continue to play this way, they will have to be taken out of the game.

VOTE: Blair

How did I go from nearly lock Town to slight Town?

Why are you voting Blair if FL is lower on your list?

[Alchemist21]

My reads are different based on different methods of reading you.

Weird but ok. Still doesn’t answer my second question though.

[Alchemist21]

I’m good with a Hoctac lynch.

VOTE: Hoctac

[Alchemist21]

Day 2 VC #36

Blair (0):
Auro (0):

Hoctac (6): Quick (4830), Alchemist21 (4832), davesaz (4835), Tchill13 (4842), Flavor Leaf (4865), Jake the Wolfie (4996)

5G Tower (2): gobbledygook (4537), Almost50 (4889)
Jake the Wolfie (5): OkaPoka (4072), Auro (4541), TrueSoulEnergy (4793), 5G Tower (4817), mastina (4976)
Aristophanes (0):
Quick (1): pisskop (2924)
TrueSoulEnergy (2): Blair (4543), Hoctac (4624)
Voted (0):
Alchemist21 (0):
Nahdia (1): Nero Cain (3667),
Flavor Leaf (0):
davesaz (0):
mastina (0):
OkaPoka (0):
Tchill13 (0):
pisskop (2): Voted (3393), Nahdia (5014)
No Lynch (0):
Not Voting (1): Aristophanes (5003)

With 20 alive, it takes 11 votes to lynch a player.

This phase will end on May 26, 2020 1:00 PM EDT (GMT-4:00) or in (expired on 2020-05-26 13:00:00).

Moderator Notes

1. If you have regular weekend V/LA, you must either notify me each time or set V/LA tags each time.
2.

Please note the prodding rules. You are prodded after 32 hours of inactivity on Tuesday-Friday.

3. As a note, if I'm not around to provide a VC, you can easily obtain one using MathBlade's tool. There's a link to the thread in the opening post of this thread. (Please remember to clearly label all unofficial votecounts as such.)
4. mastina is V/LA for an indefinite period of time.
5.

As a general reminder, please remember to

pm

me questions about mechanics or your role. Please do

not

ask me in-thread as I likely won't answer there.

VLA notices and votecount questions/corrections are okay to ask in-thread.

@everyone on either my or Hoctac's wagons

If you had to vote someone other than Myself or Hoctac, who would it be and why?

Personally I would vote TSE. They haven't been vibing in a way that town should.

Half of me still wants to vote Ari. The reason I didn’t go back on Ari after I unvoted you was because Ari was the only one reaching out to you when you were frustrated.

[Alchemist21]

(The inclusion of Quick is there, 1: as a reminder to the remnants of that wagon why I won't vote for him not even at deadline, and 2: because it is pertinent to the Tchill-is-town reasoning because many of the reasons I have for Quick being town are also reasons I have for Tchill being town thus necessitating the inclusion of Quick for the full defense of Tchill.)

I kinda really like this reasoning and it seems it would be hard to fake as Scum... But I have never seen mastina as Scum so YMMV.

What is YMMV?

Your Mileage May Vary

[Alchemist21]

Miss Lynch being town to move her up to the locktown tier, joining the likes of Nero and Auro

Mastina most likely vaccinated in this group. If the lack of a N2 infection is because of her then someone here was targeted N2.

[Alchemist21]

So Jake is pretty much confirmed infected now...

That's fun!

I'll read up later, but ya. Still not an ideal lynch today.

Interesting that mastina was one of their kills! I guess she really did say too much

This looks like scum trying hard to look like they’re not scum.

VOTE: Aristophanes

[Alchemist21]

i like a bit of a crunch to all my fruits. Apples, grapes, watermelon, peaches etc. I don't really like soft things.

Peaches can have crunch?

[Alchemist21]

Mastina most likely vaccinated in this group. If the lack of a N2 infection is because of her then someone here was targeted N2.

What do you think of my proposed theory that there wasn't an infection last night b/c it was used to kill Blair?

That’s also possible, since Nahdia asked and was told Blair would die before actually being infected.

[Alchemist21]

So Jake is pretty much confirmed infected now...

That's fun!

I'll read up later, but ya. Still not an ideal lynch today.

Interesting that mastina was one of their kills! I guess she really did say too much

This looks like scum trying hard to look like they’re not scum.

VOTE: Aristophanes

Potentially. Who do you think an Ari scumteam infects N1?

Depends on who the whole team is. It’s like guessing the Night Kill and N1 is the hardest to predict for me.

[Alchemist21]

Okay, that was fun. Wanna scumhunt for real now?

Wanna stop acting like Jake wasn’t lynched and flipped Town?

[Alchemist21]

I never took Ari for the sassy type tbh.

[Alchemist21]

Like I wouldn’t have expected sass from Ari as either alignment.

[Alchemist21]

Ari.....Jake was lynched so Blair couldn't have visited him last night...

I don’t believe he didn’t know. That’s why his whole post looks like scum to me, because he’s trying to look super uninformed.

[Alchemist21]

Ah, so your milder townreads. Lol, nevermind

Wanna jump in my pool of infections?

That sounds slightly suggestive.

[Alchemist21]

one of neros scumreads is doing fuck and all in our hood

Are they being a lot more active in the game thread than the hood?

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: 5G

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: 5G

I kinda hate this vote.

The vote’s not too fond of you either.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: 5G

I kinda hate this vote.

The vote’s not too fond of you either.

I just don't get why you are not voting for your SRs..

Who are your SRs btw?

I am scumreading 5G though. I think it’s scummy that he’s more active in the game thread than the hood.

Outside of that I still have Ari. Hoctac’s been a weaker scumread since the beetlejuice incident.

[Alchemist21]

I’m down for an Ari lynch. If Pisskop is infected I think it’s better to aim for OG scum instead of him.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Ari

[Alchemist21]

Can you two stop being idiots? Either Ari or 5G but you are NOT lynching me.

[Alchemist21]

Oka why are you even listening to Pisskop when there’s a high chance he’s Infected?

[Alchemist21]

I say I’m not so I’m not.

[Alchemist21]

yeah but piss has the most incentive to demonstrate value or be riperino'd

if you can demonstrate better value with some quality scumhunting maybe we follow you

I already gave you 2 names, Ari and 5G, and instead of either of them you picked me because ??? What you’re doing is not quality scumhunting so I don’t want to hear that from you.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: 5g

[Alchemist21]

We have 1 day left before deadline, any wagon needs to happen fast.

[Alchemist21]

I don't really understand why we aren't voting piss. We think he's infected and thus we should be shooting for original scum?

Yes.

[Alchemist21]

As someone that didn't catch Mastina's crumb was it suspicious at all that Dave did and explained why Mastina was shot?

Mastina if you're continuing to follow the game from the dead, you softed so hard it might as well have been a fullclaim.

She practically claimed to call out what she thought was a slip from Blair.

[Alchemist21]

Ari half the posts you make make me want to vote you.

[Alchemist21]

I didn't realize Iw as coming back so close to EoD

I can vibe with a 5G lynch. Have they continued to be useless or is this based on actual content?

Lol

I'll intent, maybe tn iunno

Another town death, great job. I definitely believe posskip is the enemy here. Trying to use the hood to their scummy advantage. Don’t let that slip.

Noted.

I think if you were less gimmicky and played a little harder I'd be able to fight for you here, but alas my hands are somewhat tied.

Yeah, that's a hmM from me

I didn't realize Iw as coming back so close to EoD

I can vibe with a 5G lynch. Have they continued to be useless or is this based on actual content?

Lol

I'll intent, maybe tn iunno

Another town death, great job. I definitely believe posskip is the enemy here. Trying to use the hood to their scummy advantage. Don’t let that slip.

Noted.

I think if you were less gimmicky and played a little harder I'd be able to fight for you here, but alas my hands are somewhat tied.

Yeah, that's a hmM from me

Ok you can be Town.

If there’s enough people I want to switch to Ari. I don’t know if we have enough to switch before deadline though. I’d switch now and switch back if needed but I don’t want to end up with 2 split wagons and nobody not having enough time to switch as needed before deadline.

[Alchemist21]

... Oddly I Townread that one.

[Alchemist21]

No. I got the badge and went to bed

[Alchemist21]

Ok I’m dumb as shit. That was supposed to be a text to my friend about 2k.

[Alchemist21]

Pisskop do you have anything special to report?

[Alchemist21]

actually I do, but do you have anything you want to claim?

this is me not trusting you. based on what Ive seen

The fact that I’m asking should tell you all you need to know to trust me.

[Alchemist21]

Wait who did CheekyTeeky replace?

[Alchemist21]

Wooooo I've missed a context here.

Oh well.

But are you missing your contacts? That’s the important thing.

What are your reads right now? I still want to think you’re scum but the flash of Towniness I saw yesterday makes me doubtful.

[Alchemist21]

hey alchemist how u doin

I’m doing ok. How about you?

[Alchemist21]

I kinda like Oka’s point on Flavor. I’ll sheep it for now.

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

[Alchemist21]

I kinda like Oka’s point on Flavor. I’ll sheep it for now.

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

I don't even think this is an original point from oka or maybe it was and he just said it earlier. But I know someone was light pushing FL for this earlier.

I missed it earlier but whoever said it I agree with.

[Alchemist21]

hi friend firebringer. sorry u replaced into a slot im tunneling.

its okay, i am now going to pay u back from biochem mafia from years ago. MY GRUDGES LAST FOREVER TILL I GET MY REVENGE!

Revenge is the way of the Sith.

[Alchemist21]

I kinda like Oka’s point on Flavor. I’ll sheep it for now.

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

I don't even think this is an original point from oka or maybe it was and he just said it earlier. But I know someone was light pushing FL for this earlier.

I missed it earlier but whoever said it I agree with.

my point being that I could see a scum Oka recycling an older argument in order to push someone. Does that make sense to u?

thoughts on 6046?

Why should gobble have pushed piss harder? Why is an Oka post in your gobble case?

And re: FL, if it’s an older point does that make it less valid? Scum recycling old points isn’t a tactic I’m aware of.

[Alchemist21]

XD yes come to the dark side.

How can you bring someone to the Dark Side without telling them the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise?

[Alchemist21]

Why should gobble have pushed piss harder?

there was a guilty on him. Its part of the town wincon to lynch infected.

Ok I get that.

Why is an Oka post in your gobble case?

My bad! I was unaware that I'm supposed to talk about 1 player at a time.

When the rest of the post is about your case on Gobble it’s really weird to just talk about an Oka post in the middle of it. I was expecting your response here to be something like you got confused because they have similar avis but instead you defend a jarring shift in focus as intentional. Makes me think you care more about making Gobble look bad and you not getting called on bad arguments more than actually sorting the slots.

And re: FL, if it’s an older point does that make it less valid? Scum recycling old points isn’t a tactic I’m aware of.

Since ever? I usually refer to it as parroting though.

[/quote]

Isn’t that usually closer to being at the same time as the original point was made? Regardless I don’t put stock into parroting as a scumtell either because a lot of times it really is just 2 Townies having the same opinion.

VOTE: Nero

[Alchemist21]

XD yes come to the dark side.

How can you bring someone to the Dark Side without telling them the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise?

ur in a big star wars mood and its becoming contagious. I am considering watching a star wars movie because of u.

Good, good.

[Alchemist21]

XD yes come to the dark side.

How can you bring someone to the Dark Side without telling them the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise?

Lol. Alchemist who are you scumreading?

Right now it’s Nero and a sheeping scumread on FL.

[Alchemist21]

*notes Alchemist as possible Nahdia buddy in spy notebook*

I don’t see the connection you’re making between us.

[Alchemist21]

I was expecting your response here to be something like you got confused because they have similar avis but instead you defend a jarring shift in focus as intentional. Makes me think you care more about making Gobble look bad and you not getting called on bad arguments more than actually sorting the slots.

WHAT?!?

I am pushing all 3 of gobble, Nahdia, and Oka. I made a post that had more posts about Gobble than oka but it still contained my oka reasoning. Why is it scummy to talk about multiple people in the same post? And how does talking about my reasoning to suspect oka make gobble look bad?

I think you legit mistook an oka post for one of gobbles. I think that entire post was supposed to be about Gobble and when the mistake was pointed out, instead of admitting the mistake happened you tried to defend it as intentional and I think that kind of defensiveness comes from a scum mindset. And it was about making gobble look bad because you saw a post you thought was bad from gobble without stopping to check, because you cared more about the push on Gobble than actually checking the posts to make sure that you were even quoting the right person.

[Alchemist21]

*notes Alchemist as possible Nahdia buddy in spy notebook*

I don’t see the connection you’re making between us.

I feel like the timing of your push on Nero, who happens to be the leader of the Nahdia lynch, is interesting. Your post justifying your scumread on Nero is average reasoning and appears to be fabricated with the intent to vote Nero coming prior to fishing for reason. One could say this is a discrediting tactic to deter further momentum on the Nahdia wagon.

Also you've had this whole game to form reads on people and you have a newly formed scum read on Nero plus a sheep read on someone else. Meh. I feel the same about A50 pushing me, surely you all had other suspects through the game? Where are they?

It was in direct response to a case on Gobble he wanted everyone to respond to. If anything that would be a defense of Gobble, not Nahdia.

I had Hoctac, 5G, and Ari yesterday but 5G flipped Town and I saw some Towny posts from the other 2 that made me doubtful.

[Alchemist21]

scum recruits piss n1.

Nahdia tunneles piss/Saunde b/c they

KNOW

piss is a scum slot.

I should have pushed Piss harder yesterday but you know who else should have?



THAT GUY!

posts like

Ari, please just kill the cancer

just sound like scum that's trying to pressure Ari. I think this likely means that Ari/Gobble aren't a team but he was likely recruited last night.

also piss can prove his worth is an actual traitor to the scum cause by helping us scumhunt, if he's bad this game we simply don't waste a cure on him and let him rot

this sort of bargaining and reasoning that we shouldn't be voting a confirmed scum is just very slimy I think.

Cheeky!! Are we finally town together?

Can't really explain it but I don't like it.

Oh this is gonna be good if cheeky and Auro are both town

not for town it wouldn't be. If Cheeky is town and tunnels Auro then that means she's wasting her time and energy. Same if Auro is town. Who is this "good" for, b/c its certainly not town.

Also Gobbles "if I'm wrong" sounds like bus talk.

How was this whole post not about the gobble push? Don’t tell me “because there’s an Oka post in there” because we all know that’s bullshit.

[Alchemist21]

in fact, that's a q. If you felt my post was all about Gobble why are you bringing up that I talked about oka but not nahdia?

The reason the Nahdia line is there is to contrast it with the fact that Gobble should have been pushing there and wasn’t, which was the first part of your gobble case. You didn’t quote Nahdia by mistake and mix it in with gobble’s posts as if it were one of gobble’s.

[Alchemist21]

Nevermind the fact that im going to know what im posting better than alch.

Apparently not.

[Alchemist21]

Cheeky makes an excellent point.

[Alchemist21]

The whole thing is Alch is saying that gobble will look bad b/c I added in a oka quote. Why does gobble look bad unless oka is scum?

I’m not though. I’m saying you wanted to make Gobble look bad with his posts, and the oka post is in there because you thought it was one of gobble’s posts.

[Alchemist21]

I mean sure distancing, but that's not really a strong enough reason to give up a fresh mislynch unless town are self-destructing (I've read half of day 1). A stronger case against Nahdia is that her reads are super inconsistent at the start with little reason. It looks like Nahdia attempted to scumread their buddies early on and then started to lie low/blend in, largely forgetting her prior reads. I think it's scum indicative to try hard early and then have little progression on the early reads as scum trying to appear town.

One of the early scumreads omitted for no reason seemed to be on Auro who seems not his town-self on opening. Hence I think a Nahdia/Auro SvS is likely if either flip red.

FL and I have both thought Auro looked off as well. I dropped the read but FL hasn’t.

[Alchemist21]

Why have you dropped the read Alch? What changed?

When I talked to Auro about it the reason why he seemed different to me made sense. I’ll find the posts.

[Alchemist21]

@Auro

Last game we played, when someone pushed you you would poke holes in their scumread by asking them questions that would show they didn’t have a solid case. It’s like you wanted them to think through the line of logic themselves to see that they were wrong and to me it would come off as scum you acting like “you can’t catch me because you don’t have a good case.” I’m not really seeing that from you this game as much as you just bluntly shooting down suspicion of you. Why is that?

I would bluntly shoot down your suspicion by denying I'm doing that

I can see why you get that feeling, and you're partly correct - but my tone should be expected to differ when I'm pushing back suspicion from slots I'm strongly townreading, versus when I feel disingenuity and use the push as a springboard to scumhunt the slot pushing me (where the Socratic method is very useful). The sample size here is 2: Vecna and ML. In Vecna's case, I *did* ask him a bunch of question aimed at re-evaluation; but I assign a higher degree of criticality (and information from experience) to his reading me, and townread him. In ML's case, I both strongly townread her, and had much lesser patience to start with, thus leading to a very direct "shooting down" style of defense.

I would bluntly shoot down your suspicion by denying I'm doing that

I can see why you get that feeling, and you're partly correct - but my tone should be expected to differ when I'm pushing back suspicion from slots I'm strongly townreading, versus when I feel disingenuity and use the push as a springboard to scumhunt the slot pushing me (where the Socratic method is very useful). The sample size here is 2: Vecna and ML. In Vecna's case, I *did* ask him a bunch of question aimed at re-evaluation; but I assign a higher degree of criticality (and information from experience) to his reading me, and townread him. In ML's case, I both strongly townread her, and had much lesser patience to start with, thus leading to a very direct "shooting down" style of defense.

I can see that.

[Alchemist21]

Maybe I was wrong to doubt Auro. This is looking pretty Towny from him.

And at this point I started Townreading Auro.

[Alchemist21]

It feels a bit slippish that you are saying that gobble will look bad b/c I included an oka post.

If you are continuing to say this then you are willfully misrepping my argument because I have made it crystal clear what I was saying.

[Alchemist21]

Nero, Jesus christ you’re so thick headed. Someone you think is scum hinted that they will deal with Pisskop. That is why I backed off from pushing Pisskop and went to 5G, someone I had been scumreading the entire Game and made it very clear I suspected.

He’s not thick headed, just scum.

[Alchemist21]

The whole thing is Alch is saying that gobble will look bad b/c I added in a oka quote. Why does gobble look bad unless oka is scum?

I’m not though. I’m saying you wanted to make Gobble look bad with his posts, and the oka post is in there because you thought it was one of gobble’s posts.

I can see scum trying to shove words into Nero's mouth.
I don't see a reason for town to push this angle.

Nero is shoving words into my mouth, not the other way around.

[Alchemist21]

Nero, Jesus christ you’re so thick headed. Someone you think is scum hinted that they will deal with Pisskop. That is why I backed off from pushing Pisskop and went to 5G, someone I had been scumreading the entire Game and made it very clear I suspected.

He’s not thick headed, just scum.

If this is scum Nero he’s massively improved his scum play in a very short amount of time and I really don’t think that’s the case. I think he’s just town and this is typical tunnel Nero that was yelled at to oblivion by Fonz and Titus when he incorrectly scumread them and wouldn’t let it go

He did a pretty good job in the Mini Normal I finished with him recently.

[Alchemist21]

Nero is shoving words into my mouth, not the other way around.

You're the one trying to say that Nero including one Oka post means that he mistook that post for gobble. Unless I've misremembered how that conversation started?

Believing that someone made a mistake and calling it out is not putting words in their mouth.

[Alchemist21]

I honestly have zero interest in actually investing in this game.

I am infection-immune, and as long as I’m alive the amount of infected players gets announced at daystart.

What killed your interest in this game?

[Alchemist21]

Is there a case on A50 beyond the 3p claim?

[Alchemist21]

I didn't realize Iw as coming back so close to EoD

I can vibe with a 5G lynch. Have they continued to be useless or is this based on actual content?

Lol

I'll intent, maybe tn iunno

Another town death, great job. I definitely believe posskip is the enemy here. Trying to use the hood to their scummy advantage. Don’t let that slip.

Noted.

I think if you were less gimmicky and played a little harder I'd be able to fight for you here, but alas my hands are somewhat tied.

Yeah, that's a hmM from me

I didn't realize Iw as coming back so close to EoD

I can vibe with a 5G lynch. Have they continued to be useless or is this based on actual content?

Lol

I'll intent, maybe tn iunno

Another town death, great job. I definitely believe posskip is the enemy here. Trying to use the hood to their scummy advantage. Don’t let that slip.

Noted.

I think if you were less gimmicky and played a little harder I'd be able to fight for you here, but alas my hands are somewhat tied.

Yeah, that's a hmM from me

Ok you can be Town.

If there’s enough people I want to switch to Ari. I don’t know if we have enough to switch before deadline though. I’d switch now and switch back if needed but I don’t want to end up with 2 split wagons and nobody not having enough time to switch as needed before deadline.

Started Townreading Hoctac here because of the mindmeld on Ari’s posts.

Plus from the comments Pisskop and Hoctac have made about their hood conversations it sounds like Hoctac is Town.

[Alchemist21]

I'm pretty sure of it. Read her posts, she seems to have been crumbing it.

Alright.
So I’ll switch you with FL.

FL claimed immunity too. Specifically claimed that he was the anonymous reporter that tells how many new infections occur.

[Alchemist21]

Hoctac voting his competing wagon like that is super scummy. Reeks of self preservation

VOTE: Hoctac

Self-preservation can come from Town. What makes Hoctac’s scummy?

[Alchemist21]

I have now played all the original 52 cards. Now I get to be the JOKER for the next 12 months. The question is WHICH VERSION of it I should br taking up. (Personally I prefer Jack Nicholson's goofy portrayal, but I would take other recommendations into consideration)

Heath Ledger of any of Mark Hamill’s imo.

[Alchemist21]

QQ.

AA

I’m all-in.

[Alchemist21]

Meh, now that Nahdia isn't in the slot I'm open to revisiting it.

Sorry clidd!

It's clidd! Yeah, he's an alt of RCEnigma.

This is wrong. Clidd and RCE played in the same game in different slots here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=82453

[Alchemist21]

If it has to be a choice between Hoctac and A50 I’m going with A50.

VOTE: Almost50

[Alchemist21]

I thought my last post was yesterday but I was wrong.

There’s not much more for me to say at this point. We need 2 people to come in and hammer this.

[Alchemist21]

An anonymous reporter reports that two new infections occurred during the night.

[Alchemist21]

Alch, talk to me. Who do you see as Scum rn?

Nero. Thinking Radical is scum too, not for the push on Auro because a lot of people have found Auro scummy, but because he changed his predecessor’s claim to VT. It looks like scum who didn’t want to fumble on an existing fakeclaim so they took it back and claimed VT so they wouldn’t be backed into a corner of having to explain Night Actions. And to play setup spec I doubt any VT roles actually exist in this game so that’s why I think the VT claim is a lie.

[Alchemist21]

Whoops forgot my vote.

VOTE: radical rat

[Alchemist21]

Alch, talk to me. Who do you see as Scum rn?

Nero. Thinking Radical is scum too, not for the push on Auro because a lot of people have found Auro scummy, but because he changed his predecessor’s claim to VT. It looks like scum who didn’t want to fumble on an existing fakeclaim so they took it back and claimed VT so they wouldn’t be backed into a corner of having to explain Night Actions. And to play setup spec I doubt any VT roles actually exist in this game so that’s why I think the VT claim is a lie.

I'm VT...

Hmm. I could actually believe that because you

did

crumb it on D1,

buuut

it also looked like you crumbed something else D1 so idk if you’re just gambiting here.

[Alchemist21]

For all I know, you were infected, FL.

I imagine the people who are infected are going to be more timid because they wouldn’t necessarily know who to safely lynch.

If that makes sense.

I’m like 90% sure Rat’s just group scum.

Infected could probably play normally because, let’s be honest, most people can’t hit scum regularly anyway.