Guns & Roses V [Game Over]

[Gamma Emerald]

I see we have three votes on Dunnstral, what’s up with that? I’ll probably catch up in the morning, unless I do it now.

Also I noticed while peeking in earlier there’s some complaints about roleplaying, I don’t plan to myself but I won’t discount it entirely. I do think the idea of it being a scum façade might hold weight though?

[Gamma Emerald]

1. What is your mafia experience like?
2. Do you prefer playing as mafia or as town?
3. How would you rate your scumhunting ability?

1: too much to count. 2: I think scum, as the pressure generally doesn’t get to me as much. 3: hit or miss. My reads are rather volatile.

[Gamma Emerald]

Tanner, Jonny, Hiraki are town.

Or not.

Actually nvm on Hiraki, that caution preaching ain't enough.

Totes mcgoats the other two tho.

Why?

[Gamma Emerald]

What else do you want me to say?
You're voting town, your reasons by definition, suck.

what a fucking comedian

Hm. I think both of you are being silly.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think Hiraki has a better position though.

[Gamma Emerald]

Bell is pingy as well

Easily given townreads, refusal to engage when called out

Agree

[Gamma Emerald]

and the little shot at RQS being scummy. idk if that was a joke or not but i generally think the same

Y’all realize sandman did it because it’s common on his homesite, right? I think that makes the RQS entirely neutral.

[Gamma Emerald]

I asked because it seemed strange for you to at once dismiss it as scummy (in which case, it's a pointless tool) and yet to answer it at the same time (which would imply you think it has some utility).

I think one useful thing it's given us so far is that Bell described himself as not being very strong as scumhunting in his answer to point 3, but he seems to have been surprisingly confident in the reads he's given out so far. Particularly, if his read on Dunnstral was not a joke that's a strong incongruence.

Pretty sure Ico was giving troll answers.
As for Bell’s scumhunting ability, scumhunting and townhunting are distinct skills.

[Gamma Emerald]

Is this supposed to be an accusation towards me? Might want to double check your work.

I'm just kicking dust.

I am accusing you Dunnstral!

Dunnstral knows what he did... even if we don't!

Play better.
I have a light TR on Dunnstral rn btw

[Gamma Emerald]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassandra

Why’d you do this unprompted? Seems a bit odd.

[Gamma Emerald]

I should say that I was basically having the same thoughts as Bell on that first page.

Bell's my top townread.

That, and wikifying my lazy butt.

Bell gets worse page 2
And how is posting a Wikipedia article towny????

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m liking Gun’s contributions so far. Rose needs to step it up.

[Gamma Emerald]

Suspecting me and DGB seems more playstyle based since we are relics of almost 15 years ago. It has no merit.

Was it common to vote like that, with minimal evidence, 15 years ago?

[Gamma Emerald]

that moment someone townreads you and you don't think you've obvtowned at all yet

There is a name for a player that does that: scum.

Could also be town that just wants townreads.

Picking weird stuff to talk about after returning to the game. Acknowledges that the game is out of RVS and thus implying that there’s been some content that’s probably worth talking about, but decides to talk about Roses claiming if they’re at E-1? Feels like a nothing question.

You make it sound like the claim thing is all I said. And I don't think it's nothing.

I think I disagree with ABR but I haven't played the setup before and I'm pretty sure he has and I want to know why.

ABR: what if there are two competing wagons and one is a Rose and one's a Gun.

Trust me we might have 2 roses and if we pressure them to claim they might be NK and we auto lose. If we pressure them and they don't claim and we change our votes we have a better chance to win. Keep scum off balance.

First post of the day says we have 6 roses. While your plan isn’t awful it’s not based in reality, it seems.

[Gamma Emerald]

It was funny, really. For a brief moment our roles were reversed, Gún strategizing and willing me forward with her words of encouragement, and I taking the sword, or trident in this case; plunging it true into the werewolf's heart. A loud hissing sound and burrows of smoke marked the monster's demise, as the gleaming silver vaporized it's flesh and it's heart abruptly gave out.

I looked over at Gún shimmering delightfully in the moonlight. The full moon may give these creatures strength, but it paled in comparison to the beautiful bond we shared underneath it.

...

After this rude intrusion, we made our way over to our destination; The City of

G

u

n

s

a

n

d

R

o

s

e

s

. Quite the assortment of events had unraveled in the early hours of the morning. A loud and rowdy chimney boy named Bell had been picking fights across multiple taverns. He was full of fight and vigor that one, and Gún and I both took an early liking to him. His temper may be short and his passion high, but his thoughts and intentions seemed pure at heart.

A strange tiptoer going around town caught our eye. His nametag displayed Albert B. Rampage. We debated for a while on whether Rampage was his real name or if he just thought it sounded cool, and eventually agreed that the B probably stood for Barricaded, as that's how he felt in the way he carefully maneuvered around the town, talking about nothing more than his opinions on guns and roses.

We also had the pleasure of talking with the King of the city. Uncrowned was a commanding yet humble ruler, and his presence calmed both of our fears, giving us hope for this city's future yet, despite all of the horrible rumors circling around. Uncrowned had a good list of people he could trust, and suspects he was keeping an eye on, and we promised we would assist him any way that we could.

Finally, we came across a man who was staring very intently off into the center of town, his eyes on the city.

it took me... over 30 minutes to write this post. sigh.

"Hi there! I'm Rosé. I saw your transcript earlier and I like that you admitted this without shame, but could I ask why it took so long?"

This post is legitimately 10% content. This isn’t good on any level.

[Gamma Emerald]

I really like the effort Rosé is putting into having game relevant opinions in the story.

Where are you seeing that?

[Gamma Emerald]

Uncrowned, how much is POE factoring into your reads?

I wouldn't say I've "ruled out" the people in my town list but I did try to find some decent TRs before I started looking into who was scummy

Which townreads are you least confident in?

[Gamma Emerald]

At this point the top 3 players I am ready to vote out are Dunstral, Uncrowned and Rose.

Still waiting on Dunnstral reasons, but don’t dislike this otherwise.

[Gamma Emerald]

Scum are more likely to roleplay too. I love getting into character when I'm about to put a knife in someone's back.

Does the multi-quote feature not work across multiple pages?

Yeah
What I do in situation where I’m trying to multiquote across several pages is I cut+paste each portion as I go along, by quoting everything I want to respond to on X page, writing my responses, and then I (assuming I have existing work in the clipboard) paste in stuff from previous pages, and select all + cut the whole text.

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m not sure if Hiraki v. Bell is TvS, but if it is, I think you’re the scum. You get me?
As for the “pointless question”, I kinda feel like you doing that then felt like you were overeager to look helpful. But it wasn’t a strong vibe which was why I asked about it.

[Gamma Emerald]

You know there’s more ways to convey SRs than voting all of them at once right btw?

[Gamma Emerald]

Rather bolded you to assume people wouldn’t be aware of a mythological reference like that, but okay. Motive is fine I guess.

[Gamma Emerald]

Yes and I’m aware of that too. The point is to poke at it with absurdity to get you to specify why you’re doing it in THIS game.

[Gamma Emerald]

Generally:

I like hiraki’s posting so far. Seems like he’s trying his best to scumhunt and I think he came out of his conversation with Bell looking a lot better.

I’m really struggling to care enough to read Gún and Rosé because of their roleplaying. I tentatively agree with ABR that this could be a form of obfuscation. I hope the gimmick is not going to last all game.

I think Akarin is quite likely to be mafia and could be a partner for Bell. She entered the thread sussing me but wi try out saying why beyond “I don’t like his post about Bell”. But she didn’t actually explain what she didn’t like.

I think DGB is likely to be town, and the same for Tanner, for reasons provided above.

Uncrowned, could you explain more about what you’re seeing in iconeum’s posting?

Bell is still coming across as scummy to me, and I’d like to see more from both of Johnny and Dunnstral.

What’s challenging about Gun’s posting? His roleplay seems pretty benign at this point, it’s essentially just at the level of flavor text. It makes his posts interesting but still intelligible.
I agree Hiraki seems like town. I get about the same vibe I remember of him from 2fold 2d3.
I think both Akarin and Bell might be scum, but I don’t think both are simultaneously rn.

[Gamma Emerald]

Now, sorry for bein' off for a day or so... had a hunt that went all out of sorts, but I'm back. And since you guys seem like genuine hunters, I'll invoke a certain ritual that we're told rarely to touch...

Spoiler:

I will try to make my persona/character more 'readable' though I think that it is already if people genuinely do not like it that much. However, I'll also say that (and I suppose this is because I came into this game knowing I was going to play this sort of character) I find the read of 'roleplay as obfuscation' a very weak line of thought and easy pickings for people to post about in lieu of doing actual scumhunting.

I agree with the spoiled text about “roleplay as obfuscation” being an easy reason for a scumread
As such I think while ABR and DGB are at least somewhat townreads, I’m more solid on ABR rn

[Gamma Emerald]

ico, talk to me about the hiraki vote? i see there's a sheep gif, but still.

hiraki's scumread feels… easy
on the edge of ungenuine

i like my sheepvote there

Don’t really like this
I won’t deny Hiraki’s Bell read seems OMGUSy but I think he’s mildly predisposed to that sort of thinking. Can you give real reasons you feel this way?

[Gamma Emerald]

Who is Chimney Boy? Who is Lone Ranger? Thanks for dropping the light pink text.

Chimney boy = bell
Lone Ranger = gun?

[Gamma Emerald]

Well it probably doesn’t mean much but I’m still curious.

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay maybe I need (more) sleep.

[Gamma Emerald]

As for why Dunstral, it's RVS and whatever my reasons are they are by definition bad reasons because it's RVS.

Basically tho, it's cause he voted out the gate and has been awkward ever since.

Just need ABR and DGB to chime in on this now

[Gamma Emerald]

I mean that's not what I meant but it still answers my question IN A WAY.

[Gamma Emerald]

To add onto this, this also would mean that all 3 scum decided to go rose. Which would mean mountainous, essentially?

The scum have a standard nightkill on top of the gun kills
also we don't know the scum ratio.

[Gamma Emerald]

Honestly 6 Roses is a good number
typically it seems town overfocuses on one option

[Gamma Emerald]

Is that a legit request, because if so that = you getting voted out once 2 scum are gone

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm not assuming you're scum, but that's essentially the sequence of events you're proposing. If you town up by then that probably won't happen.

[Gamma Emerald]

And how is posting a Wikipedia article towny????

It's not me right? He seems to be defending people left and right and then accusing the accusers for...accusing?

@Hiraki, not just you. It’s complicated by Gamma’s playstyle somewhat. It’s very common for him to white knight as town.
I’m not sure how self-aware he is about it and whether he would play into that as scum tho.

I'm guessing this is the response chain starting point here?

[Gamma Emerald]

DGB why do YOU think Dunn is scum?
Also, random comment, but your pfp looks like it’s from South Park.

[Gamma Emerald]

Pretty sure he was talking about you
But what I’M seeing is that the first part of that is saying “I’m not the only one that sees this?” and Bell’s response is spinning off of that.

[Gamma Emerald]

I was talking about Akarin. Guess people weren't agreeing.

I’d have to re-look at Akarin to tell if that’s how I feel about her.

@DGB so it’s a gut read?

[Gamma Emerald]

You’ve been SRing Dunn for a while, and iirc your vote has been on Dunn this whole time where if you think Bell is bussing you should vote Bell first.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

Mind explaining this?

[Gamma Emerald]

And HOW does that result in a vote on me?

[Gamma Emerald]

I didn’t say I’d do it THEN.

[Gamma Emerald]

Why do you care?

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m posting the amount I want to post. This is pretty much a nice clean-slate game for me I feel.

[Gamma Emerald]

He, just, said, Rose, was, the, easy, read?

[Gamma Emerald]

I think I agree.

[Gamma Emerald]

How convenient.

[Gamma Emerald]

How convenient.

It's convenient because your statement ringing true isn't mutually exclusive from being scum?

It seems it didn’t make a dent, in any sense. What was the point of asking about my posting rate?

[Gamma Emerald]

Why would me hyper posting be indicative of either alignment? I sometimes strive for high post count just because I rarely get the highest. Can’t recall a single game I’ve actually done that.

[Gamma Emerald]

Nero’s not here. He’s the one I most wanted to show my CHOPS to. Wouldn’t want to put in such effort for nothing, eh?

[Gamma Emerald]

I was testing your resolve on that. Figured town you might be willing to go through with that, assuming expedient elimination of the other scum.

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m not gonna TR you on principle, I’m waiting for it to happen naturally. If you’re town it should.

[Gamma Emerald]

In a second. By the way, go check out Large Normal 230. It just finished.

[Gamma Emerald]

Does that mean you're reading/have read it or...? I'm willing to spell out the meaning of me referencing that game if I have to.

[Gamma Emerald]

Well, it's pretty basic. I said Nero was the only one I felt I had to prove myself to from mystery box of silver 10. In that game I pocketed him thoroughly and kept him there until killing him for fear of him being a town vig. So I really don't see why you think I have reason to be more active in THIS game as a response to MBoS 10. Now if you had some

ohter

game you thought I was compensating for, that would be a different deal, but I'm gonna be sus of you bringing in another game to try to drag that point along.

[Gamma Emerald]

That's because I'm on record as viewing Uncrowned as obvtown in multiple games and when I was scum against him I called that as a reason to nightkill him
So he probably expects me to townread him here too, but I'm not convinced on it quite yet, though the fact he solicited that seems like a good sign.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think he's expecting to read me off my read on him. I'm no stranger to doing that, but a warning about that sort of thing is I feel eventually you start to sort of smooth out so much you don't fit like puzzle pieces (this metaphor is probably extremely shitty) if you abuse that method of forming reads on a a person.

[Gamma Emerald]

PSA: Deadline is in just under 2 days unless there is an extension because JohnnyFarrar hasn't posted in this thread since Monday. Tanner also isn't too far off from prod range.

V/LA 48H

VOTE: Bell
If ABR's not gonna justify his Dunn vote I don't feel okay voting there today.

[Gamma Emerald]

Can you expound on why you don't think Akarin and Bell would be scum together? That seems perfectly likely to me. If they're not mafia together, which do you think is more likely to be mafia? And would you be willing to vote there with me?

I think their in-sync-ness doesn't seem like scum grouping, I think one of them is just buddied maybe. My vote answers the second and third questions.

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't think you're engaging people with town motivation here

[Gamma Emerald]

why do you think this is a meta read?

[Gamma Emerald]

Then why bring it up the way you did?

[Gamma Emerald]

I try not to use meta as a crutch. I think it's a good side dish, not so much a full meal. If I can explain a read without it I will do my best to.

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah, but I don't like that I do that, and would prefer to be more proficient at explaining myself without it. Honestly the thing I

should

do in that regard is play more games with reckoner and other anti-meta players, that way I force myself to use arguments based in the current game to convince people. But those people don't play as much as others who aren't as distasteful of meta.

[Gamma Emerald]

I am going to steal all of your kneecaps if Dunnstral flips town.

[Gamma Emerald]

Who's looking suspect to you rn, Gun?

[Gamma Emerald]

After a bit of isos I see that most players have toned down the LARPing.

Except one.

VOTE: Rosé

I expect half the player base will be defending this player slot because voting for it is mean.

y'all gonna put up?

VOTE: Rose
I have my own reasons but mark me as #4 rn

[Gamma Emerald]

why hiraki
he gives a similar vibe to 2fold 2d3 rn

[Gamma Emerald]

What's everyone's preference for elimination within {Bell, Akarin, Momrangal (the Rose slot)}? Submit as an ordered list
We can probably send one of the if we coordinate, and I'm not against any of them aorn.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm hit or miss.

[Gamma Emerald]

I just wanna live the first night tho, honestly. After that, I don't care mich

But, like, come on people. Does scum ever make this post?

Yes? Why DOESN’T scum make that post?

[Gamma Emerald]

I've been here for less than 12 hours. I would also prefer my own wagon over bell, I don't need to survive to win. Don't know if thats the case with that slot.

I am intrigued with the quasi-WK on Akarin, when my first push was that slot

Wait so despite not being sure Bell is town you’re more comfortable with your lim?
I’m good with the Momrangal lim.

[Gamma Emerald]

It's kind of fucked up that my strongest TR has voted town me the whole game phase though.
Maybe I shouldn't write them off like this, god knows I fake tunnel as scum and act like a dense brick t get the person I'm scum reading to scum read me too, but in this case, obviousy not the same because hiraki never posted like a dense brick.

Just never realy brough the manajoes, the gamma intervention just looks like more of for their own comfort and position than actually reading gamma's posts imo. Yes, I'm saying what I'm seeing, not what is actually there.

Stuff like this is making me doubt my Bell SR.

[Gamma Emerald]

Thinking about it, I don’t like the “if you die it wasn’t me” post from DGB
Seems a little like a forced perspective

[Gamma Emerald]

Can we please, please eliminate dunstral instead.

I don’t see things the way you see them, and DGB + ABR only had meme reasons
I think scumstral plays more manipulative than this
This is both a meta judgment and a blanket statement that he doesn’t seem manipulative

[Gamma Emerald]

Actually hm, on a re read that comes off different. Are you essentially saying you think Bell might be a rose?
I do have to ask why the hell the gimmick alt named “Rose” chose gun btw

[Gamma Emerald]

And who is that for you

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Akarin
I’m getting cold feet on Bell and feel unsure about momrangal following that interaction so this is like, the only person on the table I legitimately feel any sort of confidence about being scum
I legit don’t think it’s Dunn yet

If we want to run off-track I might consider DGB or ABR

[Gamma Emerald]

Didn’t think the responses were interesting enough to warrant extending the discussion of the topic

[Gamma Emerald]

On what

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m a little pensive there but I’m not sure she’s scum rn. I don’t think the Mom/Bell/you pool draws dead so with 2 options not feeling great that leaves me with 1 that comparatively looks rather fine

[Gamma Emerald]

On my mom feelings or my scumread on you

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay, explain that then please.

[Gamma Emerald]

Might be bad form if they shot their shot then immediately replaced out after

Anyway, I propose mass claim today. Roses don't claim their night. Guns it's not a big deal whether they claim their night or not

Why this, and why only after ABR died?

[Gamma Emerald]

Who'd you shoot btw, DGB?

[Gamma Emerald]

I might just sheep someone for real this day phase

[Gamma Emerald]

Who'd you shoot btw, DGB?

Nobody

But you softed N1 gun HARD
:fry_leer:

[Gamma Emerald]

Also looking at the mass claim talk it seems we’re essentially doing a DoP strat here
I guess that works imo.

[Gamma Emerald]

By the way Bell. Tell me why you’re town this game.

[Gamma Emerald]

Not convinced, 1 or more of those deaths weren’t 100% scum-directed

[Gamma Emerald]

Valid
What scum kills those 2 players, though?

[Gamma Emerald]

Actually my base inclination might be to sus Akarin for the Uncrowned kill

[Gamma Emerald]

Valid
What scum kills those 2 players, though?

Dunstral, Gun, Akarin, DGB, you.
Might ask or direct for any of those. Other scum players might be conscientious about it.

Look at the number of posts I have in this game. Do I seem like I don't want to be here.

Post count isn’t indicative of alignment preference, just see how much Noraa posts in her scumgames.

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay. Talk about those killer suspects maybe? I agree on Akarin and can see Dunn, but DGB seems questionable for the ABR kill since they’re in similar boats.

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay. What about Gun, what’s her motive?

[Gamma Emerald]

By the way I fully expect to become obvtown Day 3

[Gamma Emerald]

I was saying you didn’t seem like scum for those kills in that post

[Gamma Emerald]

Honestly I think your misinterpret there might be town indicative

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: akarin
Come out and play, whydoncha?

[Gamma Emerald]

I think they should, but I’m also thinking about massclaim ramifications and that tells me they should NOT clarify WHO they failed on

[Gamma Emerald]

I

t

h

i

n

k

t

h

a

t

g

u

n

s

w

h

o

f

a

i

l

e

d

t

h

e

i

r

s

h

o

t

l

a

s

t

n

i

g

h

t

s

h

o

u

l

d

c

l

a

i

m

s

u

c

h

,

b

u

t

S

H

O

U

L

D

N

O

T

C

L

A

I

M

W

H

O

T

H

E

Y

S

H

O

T

.

[Gamma Emerald]

Are we seriously doing what amount to an RVS wagon D2

[Gamma Emerald]

That doesn’t really sound like a scumcase

[Gamma Emerald]

@FakeGod I think Akarin and Mr Sandman need prods

[Gamma Emerald]

Who are you talking about there?

[Gamma Emerald]

My vote on Akarin today was because I wanted to poke her since she was the secondary wagon yesterday.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think Akarin’s reads weren’t really very sensible around that time
I’m not sure if that’s the exact logic I had at that time but that’s what bothers me now. If Bell is town here Akarin had 2 townreads that didn’t make sense imo

Also I might not have been very clear but that doesn’t mean no one was. Hiraki actually made a clear accusation looking back.

[Gamma Emerald]

I was looking at some previous posts and noticed Akarin citing Rose as calling Uncrowned’s read list good, so I went and found it

Town

Tanner:

Liked Post 24 as I thought a similar thing and the post about Bell seeming slight +town for making an “anti-town” post, while not something I really agree with, didn’t seem like an excuse to try and hamfist a TR and came off to me as quite genuine.

Hiraki:

Mostly tonal read and came out looking +Town from the Bell engagement on P2.

Gun:

Pointed out Bell’s disengagement from Hiraki, which I generally like.

Bell:

Inclined to believe that Hiraki/Bell was TvT. Initially I thought he handed out some reads rather easily on P1 but I think it’s more indicative of a fluid townie mindset, especially with how he pulled it back on Hiraki. I think scum would be more concerned with crafting reads and not retracting them that quickly.

Ico:

Already detailed this, but had similar initial thoughts to Bell that I did, as well as the RQS thing. I like that they questioned me on my TR of them too. Tone seems good too.

Mr. Sandman:

Didn’t really care for the RQS stuff. However, the case on Bell was plausible and came off as genuine, and I initially had similar thoughts. Also, I generally don’t think a scum would care to question Ico about why they answered the RQS even though they said they thought it was scummy. I think that was a townie thing to question.

Mafia

DGB:

Jumping on middle of Dunn wagon after commenting on almost nothing game relevant.

Albert B Rampage:

Same as DGB pretty much, except with minor mech talk which is meh to me. Don’t think both would be on Dunn one after the other in such a similar manner, though. I am of the opinion that one of these players is scum.

Akarin:

Picking weird stuff to talk about after returning to the game. Acknowledges that the game is out of RVS and thus implying that there’s been some content that’s probably worth talking about, but decides to talk about Roses claiming if they’re at E-1? Feels like a nothing question.

Iirc you yourself didn’t object very much to this, Akarin. Why?

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm scum for having correct townreads?

I think you have good reads for bad reasons. They’re essentially TMI reads, but the current thing I’m getting from them is more to distrust you than to trust the townreads you’ve given, though if you flip scum I will likely trust Bell going forward.

[Gamma Emerald]

my grandmaster plan is in full effect

if you look to your left (by flipping the page and finding the vote count post) you will see two very important things

akarin and momrangal

we got ourselves a good old fashioned town and scum wagon but which is which? well only time will tell

i say we get akarin first and then snipe the other if we're wrong with our trusty guns

VOTE: Uncrowned

Why’d you vote Uncrowned here? I don’t just want to hear “he was pushing TvT” because that’s the obvious conclusion FYPOV, if you’re TRing momrangal at that stage.
This also interests me for another reason I want to keep close to the vest.

[Gamma Emerald]

Like I made the post you're talking about defending Rose against weird assertion that she wasn't playing the game at all. For some reason like 5 times now people have taken that as an endorsement of Uncrowned's readslist on my part and scumreading me for that. It's getting weird at this point and I don't know who is being dumb and who is just enjoying the opportunity for a shit push.

Would you categorize me as part of that group? Because I’ll tell you I wasn’t actually trying to suggest that beyond asking about your feelings on it at the time.

[Gamma Emerald]

VoteCount 1.6

Dunnstral [1] - Bell
Bell [1] - Iconeum
Akarin [5] - Uncrowned, Tanner, Gún, Gamma Emerald, Momrangal
Momrangal [5] - JohnnyFarrar, Dunnstral, Albert B. Rampage, Hiraki, Mr Sandman
Mr Sandman [1] - Akarin

Not Voting [1]

- DrippingGoofball

With 14 alive it takes 8 votes to be executed.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2020-12-14 10:01:04)

VoteCount 1.7

Bell [1] - Iconeum
Akarin [3] - Uncrowned, Gamma Emerald, Momrangal

Momrangal [8] - JohnnyFarrar, Dunnstral, Albert B. Rampage, Hiraki, Mr Sandman, Akarin, Tanner, Gún [EXECUTE]

Gún [1] - Bell

Not Voting [1]

- DrippingGoofball

With 14 alive it takes 8 votes to be executed.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2020-12-14 10:01:04)

Putting this my ISO now because it’s bothered the hell out of me since I first saw it and I wanna take a closer look at what happened soon.

[Gamma Emerald]

Uncrowned was refusing to think about the game and I think he's better than that, also reminded me of a game that was ongoing until like yesterday where he was scum with me.

But also, what's wrong with voting for someone obviously pushing TvT in a scummy way anyway?

Why did that remind you of that game? What makes you say he wasn’t thinking about this game? What do you mean by “not thinking about the game”?

As for your question, in the moment it probably would have seemed okay, but you voted mom later, and uncrowned has now clipped town. So obviously you weren’t confident enough uncrowned was pushing TvT to stick to that story in the end.

[Gamma Emerald]

Didn’t think the responses were interesting enough to warrant extending the discussion of the topic

So you agree with me?

On what

On what

My Momrangal-Rose townread.

I’m a little pensive there but I’m not sure she’s scum rn. I don’t think the Mom/Bell/you pool draws dead so with 2 options not feeling great that leaves me with 1 that comparatively looks rather fine

I’m a little pensive there but I’m not sure she’s scum rn. I don’t think the Mom/Bell/you pool draws dead so with 2 options not feeling great that leaves me with 1 that comparatively looks rather fine

Why though?

I really don’t like this from Akarin looking back, it seems she was trying to twist my words to fit her agenda. I wasn’t a big fan of it at the time, which was why I was making Akarin specify her questions. But with Mom’s townflip and my current vibe of her not reading people for good reason, this reads like her trying to bait me into a position I don’t truly hold, so I look worse.

[Gamma Emerald]

Which head were you in Chito and Yuuri?

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm so done with this, Gamma.

Like seriously? Your position is that I shouldn't vote my own counterwagon WHEN THAT COUNTERWAGON HAS CRUMBED GUN in this setup if I think they're town?

She was a N1 gun. You could have let her shoot, and that would trade the Day 1 lim for a town-led gun shot.
I don’t think you should have let yourself get limmed, but you also shouldn’t have been okay with mom’s lim.

[Gamma Emerald]

More trying to bait Gamma into admitting

he

doesn't really hold the positions he holds.

Or wasn't reading the game, which I've since dismissed but was a thought for why that might be a town!Gamma play at the time.

You tried to get me to agree with YOUR thoughts. I didn’t think and still don’t think your read there was genuine. So you essentially tried to get me to agree with a point I don’t by asking a deceitful question. I’ve been eternally vigilant about agreeing to things I don’t really do ever since that led to massive problems in one game. I think you tried to manipulate me into agreeing to your base reasoning, which makes my position harder to argue.

[Gamma Emerald]

Which head were you in Chito and Yuuri?

Pretty sure I was Yuuri but it's been a while.

So that means you’re the one who snapvoted me after the modkill. I don’t think you really know how I work.

[Gamma Emerald]

You tried to get me to agree with YOUR thoughts. I didn’t think and still don’t think your read there was genuine. So you essentially tried to get me to agree with a point I don’t by asking a deceitful question. I’ve been eternally vigilant about agreeing to things I don’t really do ever since that led to massive problems in one game. I think you tried to manipulate me into agreeing to your base reasoning, which makes my position harder to argue.

Gamma was obviously disagreeing with my reasoning

by play

but had no counterargument and hadn't actually commented on my reasoning at the time (or I think) later.

This isn't a trap town has to worry about.

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=71732
Read the beginning of this and tell me if you still think town!me has no reason to worry about this sort of shit.

[Gamma Emerald]

I dont get any of the good vibes I got from Umlaut when he replaced in for Large 230, so I think he might be scum here, and his treatment of me feels similar to how scum!Umlaut has handled town!me in the past, where he’s pushed me for questionable reasons.

[Gamma Emerald]

Also, Umlaut’s questions here remind me of a VERY common scum tactic where they try to fish out reasons to figure out the move to make. It’s not just a mafia tell, it also works well in Among Us. If someone acts “who are we voting” close to the end of a meeting, it’s likely they’re an impostor trying to figure out the best vote that they can push.

[Gamma Emerald]

o/

Probably going to sleep in a bit, I've only read this page but

I'm assuming there's a reason we're talking about massclaiming on day 2?

VOTE: Dunstral

This doesn't have much to do with the mass claim versus not mass claim thing.

If town shot their shot. I would like to know who and why.

Reasoning for this?

I know you said it isn't really about the mass claim but I think at first glance calling for it is a towny move, so you should have some reason for finding him scummy that overwhelms that.

room temperature take: VOTE: johnnyfarrar

< insert disagreement about massclaiming today here >

VOTE: JohnnyFarrar

I can get behind this, his ISO is pretty much empty.

Can someone give me a synopsis of the important things that happened yesterday so I don't have to feel bad about not reading?

I assumed he was talking about your case but I'm not sure it matches up with what you said about Akarin. But that said I don't see what you dislike about the votes on JF that isn't equally true of your vote on Akarin.

And why were you/anyone voting Akarin yesterday?

@umlaut, have you read *any* of the game? got any takes for us so far?

Haven't done any reading to speak of, no. I did take a quick look at your own ISO when I was sheeping your vote to make sure nothing screamed scummy to me, and saw a few posts I found towny in tone (67, 149, 232) and nothing that really pinged me, so I'm leaning town on you. My plan is to just read from the point where I subbed in and only go back if something catches my eye and I want to get more info about that. I've found that trying to just "read everything" really just doesn't work, I end up skimming and realizing at the end that I haven't really formed any impressions at all; whereas if I'm looking into something specific I end up reading more intently and actually getting something out of it.

Akarin's Gamma vote makes sense to me, I don't like how Gamma's explanation for voting him is basically "well _someone_ gave a reason for that wagon, as I recall" and it feels more like he's looking for a reason to be on not-the-leading-wagon.

In fact, it makes enough sense for me to
VOTE: Gamma Emerald

This sort of netcasting behavior is all over his posting (at least in a relative sense)
VOTE: Umlaut
I’m pretty sure this nets a scum.

[Gamma Emerald]

I can't even think of a game where I was scum and you were town.

I know my first game with you was one. Surrealism, I was the D1 miselim, and you died N1 due to crosskilling.

[Gamma Emerald]

I wouldn't know a good fake claim if it hit me in the head tho.

bulletproof vengefull?

Excavator. I targeted Bell but was unable to clear his tunnel.

Please save this town if you're town.
I dunno if I can.

Why do you think town needs saving? I’m asking this with no preconceived opinion on the post.

[Gamma Emerald]

Are we seriously doing what amount to an RVS wagon D2

Not RVS. He's a waste of a slot and continues to ignore this game while favoring other games.

On this. JF might be dodging this game but he’s a bit of a non-entity. I’d rather try to find active scum that is actively driving town down the wrong path. Save JF for the firing squad imo.

[Gamma Emerald]

Iconeum, how would you compare/contrast your play this game to your play in Mini 2180?

[Gamma Emerald]

Uncrowned was refusing to think about the game and I think he's better than that, also reminded me of a game that was ongoing until like yesterday where he was scum with me.

But also, what's wrong with voting for someone obviously pushing TvT in a scummy way anyway?

Why did that remind you of that game? What makes you say he wasn’t thinking about this game? What do you mean by “not thinking about the game”?

As for your question, in the moment it probably would have seemed okay, but you voted mom later, and uncrowned has now clipped town. So obviously you weren’t confident enough uncrowned was pushing TvT to stick to that story in the end.

I want an answer to the bolded.

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay Dunnstral. You don’t think Akarin is scum for anything brought up. Do you have anything you think she’s town for?

[Gamma Emerald]

Well it’s day 2 now.

[Gamma Emerald]

I want to feel good about your contributions. Right now I’m closer to “eh”.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'd be willing to vote off wagon, not for myself

VOTE: gun

I like these moves by these two
Bell, how do you feel about Gun/Umlaut right now?

[Gamma Emerald]

So that's 4/5 people either calling Akarin scum but not having reasons or voting "just to see what happens"

I think we should elim Rose slot with prejudice today

Okay never mind I just like Bell’s move
This was a step back

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: momrangal

should be exe-1.

agree on this being a complete coin toss. not as happy with this but i guess i should be listening to my own advice of "a flip is better than no flip".

VOTE: Momrangal

Deadline vote more than anything else.

Okay yeah hella bad vibes on this whole transaction.
Akarin/Umlaut/?

[Gamma Emerald]

Since I’m breaking the fucking mold like crazy here. Akarin’s posting sequence on page 25 does not process.

VOTE: Momrangal

*sigh*

Akarin had been townreading mom but votes her when the wagons are tied. Survivalism wasn’t even needed here, because deadline was close. In addition since mom was a N1 gun, choosing to no lim over limming min would have lost NOTHING. As long as mom didn’t make a bonkers shot, which I don’t feel like she would have, we ttade one town-led death for another. But my vibe is mom’s death wasn’t truly town-led.

Didn’t think the responses were interesting enough to warrant extending the discussion of the topic

So you agree with me?

On what

On what

My Momrangal-Rose townread.

Here’s where this shit gets twisted. Despite not feeling good enough about the momrangal read to not vote there or something, Akarin is still harping on me trying to get me to agree with her on a read she’s not even sticking to. And I’ve already covered how scummy it was to try to do that.

But if it's a tossup, we should really be voting Mom.

No, we shouldn’t, because of what I brought up about mom being able to shoot someone else. But that has a chance to hit scum, while limming mom was a guaranteed town death.

Okay, explain that then please.

I'd prefer not to.

So here’s the thing. The obvious conclusion is Akarin is a rose and making sure she survives. But one person’s survival DOES NOT need to cost the life of another. Mom could have lived and shot scum, but I perceive that as a risk Akarin wasn’t willing to take. Town-Rose!Akarin could have let momrangal live, but Scum-Rose!Akarin needed her to die.

I’m willing to do Akarin or Umlaut today, but I won’t compromise unless there’s a good freaking reason. I don’t trust the JF wagon AT ALL currently.

[Gamma Emerald]

It's hard to know the difference between scum compromising and town compromising at deadline.

My expectation Dunnstral is that you push at precisely one player as potential scum day 1 as town.

The compromise wasn’t exactly necessary imo. As I said, mom was a gun so she was a town-led kill if she survived to N1.

[Gamma Emerald]

Quick question looking at the VCs, why is Anakin alive and Mom not leashed?

That’s a very good question!

[Gamma Emerald]

But yes, I believe my voting there was relevant to my survival and I'd do it again.

I don’t believe this.

[Gamma Emerald]

I just don’t feel good about your vote there
Why not let mom shoot, if you think it’s a town/town coin flip? That still nets a flip. I feel like scum were on her in the end because of her potential to shoot them, and the feeling is that they were on the back end. Honestly thinking on it I’m more sus of Umlaut (Gun slot) than Akarin over that deal, despite Akarin’s mindset being preposterous, because I think the way Gun hopped on was not okay at all.
VOTE: Umlaut

@Hiraki

what does town!Umlaut look like to you? I personally have a sorta-high bar for him based on recent experience, and his play so far isn’t hitting it.

[Gamma Emerald]

Eh. While I’m worried about the wagon momentum, I do think JF’s contributions are very lacking.
I’m inclined to vote but tbh I think it might be hammered already? I recall 4 before Dunn, so Dunn + Bell = 6 which would be enough

[Gamma Emerald]

Wdym “do something that explains”?

[Gamma Emerald]

I personally felt like Akarin’s reads weren’t valid for a town POV
You’ll have to ask the others for their reasons on Akarin cos I don’t remember theirs rn

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay
I don’t think you answered my umlaut question

[Gamma Emerald]

one person’s alignment is NOT a coin flip by the virtue of everyone having a ~75% chance of being town

DGB what’s your setup knowledge rn?

[Gamma Emerald]

You forgot to reduce the percentage to account for the town flips and his thread avoidance/inactivity.

Was talking about tanner’s stance on why he voted mom

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay
So why are you insisting on a claim like this?

[Gamma Emerald]

you weren’t coming across very strong in 230 but you came across as right
In that game I wanted you dead so you wouldn’t provide the town with momentum to turn the game around. So the answer to your question specifically is “yes, but there’s something amiss that can’t be explained my that”.
Who do you think is scum rn?

[Gamma Emerald]

“Yes I did notice” to be clear

[Gamma Emerald]

Ya know, me Dunn and mom had a game where we were all scum together a few years back

[Gamma Emerald]

Two things. First, I think claiming should be kept to a minimum and basic level until massclaim, and even during. Second, yesterday indicated claims don’t really mean jack for for this group.

[Gamma Emerald]

Bad signal-to-noise ratio, any content that does exist doesn’t look great
He low-efforts on both sides but scum!him seems more shallow I feel
I’d say currently his game does feel a bit like his scumgame here
Look at me metaing without a care wheee

[Gamma Emerald]

Hiii
I have been waiting for you

[Gamma Emerald]

That’s fair, but I feel like you’ve been a mild non-entity for a good chunk of the game
Also idk if I’m fine with you playing yesman to me after that game
Like if you agree cool but the way you said it has me wondering. I do think it’s a little brazen to pocket me THAT openly tho

[Gamma Emerald]

That’s fair, but I feel like you’ve been a mild non-entity for a good chunk of the game
Also idk if I’m fine with you playing yesman to me after that game
Like if you agree cool but the way you said it has me wondering. I do think it’s a little brazen to pocket me THAT openly tho

tbf, i think i just called out umlaut prior to 'pocketing' you
and i'm just going thru my catchup (tho obviously i could fake that if i'm scum)

up to you to decide

yeah i probably understand your reluctance towards my slot here

Yeah you did do that
I’ll give that a full pass, but I will still be wary of you probably
Thoughts on Titus’ content?

[Gamma Emerald]

That’s fair, but I feel like you’ve been a mild non-entity for a good chunk of the game
Also idk if I’m fine with you playing yesman to me after that game
Like if you agree cool but the way you said it has me wondering. I do think it’s a little brazen to pocket me THAT openly tho

i agree that i've not been very influencial this game so far
if i'm alive with fewer people around, that will probably change

but i think i've been giving my opinions pretty straightforward despite that?

I just don’t remember much of you or your opinions from D1
Being UtR isn’t a scumtell but I felt like I wanted to push you out of the shadows
(Btw I think for ease-of-processing I’ll use UtR for under-the-radar and UTR for ultra/universal-townread going forward)

[Gamma Emerald]

Titus is a townlean

I know they're a good player, and there's simply not enough content yet for a full analysis but I specifically liked their talk about competing wagons

Yeah
Idk if you saw the game in question but the way she came in reminded me of how she opened D2 of MBoS 10

[Gamma Emerald]

I think Bell might be town. You remember how you said in the 2180 scum thread I push people to pressure them? I think his response to my pressure was alright.
Besides that I don’t really object

[Gamma Emerald]

My thing is that Akarin soul read both mom and bell town D1, and either she managed to have good reads for bad reasons as town or scum, but I’m gonna go all-in on her reads on those two being right.

[Gamma Emerald]

We should either decide we don't care about claims (which was ABR's position) or we should just massclaim like Dunn wants.

This
And until thread climate seems in favor of massclaim I’m gonna advocate reducing claims

[Gamma Emerald]

Yes I have said multiple times that was a good idea

[Gamma Emerald]

I was saying you didn’t seem like scum for those kills in that post

Ok I get the wording now.

If someone's kill didn't go through, should they claim it?

I think they should, but I’m also thinking about massclaim ramifications and that tells me they should NOT clarify WHO they failed on

You should repost in large, bold, rainbow font so no one misses it.

I

t

h

i

n

k

t

h

a

t

g

u

n

s

w

h

o

f

a

i

l

e

d

t

h

e

i

r

s

h

o

t

l

a

s

t

n

i

g

h

t

s

h

o

u

l

d

c

l

a

i

m

s

u

c

h

,

b

u

t

S

H

O

U

L

D

N

O

T

C

L

A

I

M

W

H

O

T

H

E

Y

S

H

O

T

.

Why the fuck do you need to ask again?

[Gamma Emerald]

There’s a critical flaw in your logic. I could honestly just straight up unleash a Danganronpa-style “no, that’s wrong” but I’d rather not divulge too much about it yet
But like, re-read what you just posted because the flaw is within the words you’ve chosen.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: DGB
I’d rather this than JF, why the fuck did she ask the same exact question twice? It’s shallow questioning that is meant to appear productive but isn’t.

[Gamma Emerald]

I brought it up again because no one seemed to have noticed or commented.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

Doesn’t account for the fact you seemed to have had it go in one ear and out the other

[Gamma Emerald]

and having non-them townreads and assuming they're correct maths it out to like basically close to a coinflip. you know what i mean.

Now we’re getting somewhere. Who were these other townreads?

[Gamma Emerald]

That doesn’t exactly make it a 50/50, more like a 37.5/62.5

[Gamma Emerald]

Nothing more to say?
Do you have any thoughts you haven’t shared rn?

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma by your logic we shouldn't kill anyone

I’m pressing his logic, that doesn’t mean anything for my methods rn

[Gamma Emerald]

Can we pls not fucking stagnate rn

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like you’ve been a bit terse all game Tanner, and it makes you hard to read imo. I wonder if it’s stylistic or scum holding their tongue.

[Gamma Emerald]

Help me work the defibrillator?
I know you read pages 1-10 so far. Have you read anymore? Do you have any new thoughts you’d like to speak up on?

[Gamma Emerald]

Fair enough.

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like you’ve been a bit terse all game Tanner, and it makes you hard to read imo. I wonder if it’s stylistic or scum holding their tongue.

if you'd like to get a better read on me, you're free to initiate a conversation with me. up to 905, you haven't done that at all.

Your aforementioned terseness probably factored into that. Most if not all of your content is responding to quoted posts. That’s not really scum indicative but it’s hard to interact with on a human level.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Dunnstral
I’m not confident about this but I think it’s a better shot compared to FB

[Gamma Emerald]

Scumread on Dunn + skepticism of FB wagon

[Gamma Emerald]

It’s all reads on JF, which is part of why I dislike it

[Gamma Emerald]

If I die tonight, never lim Titus

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh, that's E-1.

I'm okay with it.

---

Firebringer [5] - Tanner, Hiraki, Dunnstral, Bell, Akarin
Dunn [2] - Gamma, Titus
DrippingGoofball [1] - Iconeum,
Gamma Emerald [1] -DrippingGoofball

Not Voting [2] - Firebringer, JacksonVirgo

With 11 alive it takes 6 votes to be executed.

You shouldn’t fucking be

[Gamma Emerald]

I think the whole game's been kind of static.

4? replacements today doesn't help.

You wanna bother to question WHHYYY the game is static?

[Gamma Emerald]

now that i'm caught up, i *will* agree this game is on a virtual stand-still tho

it's been like that ever since Johny got up towards E-2/1

Do none of you have the ability to properly question wtf is going on?
And you’re okay shooting Dunn but not limming him? WHY???

[Gamma Emerald]

no because scum johnny meta is to lurk

I want evidence of this

[Gamma Emerald]

You shouldn’t fucking be

Oh? Do you have a strong townread on FB now?

You wanna bother to question WHHYYY the game is static?

Well my current theory is that because Johnny's scumbuddies didn't want to fight the inevitable-seeming Johnny wagon but also didn't want to contribute to it. I'm eyeing

maxwell

JacksonVirgo

Umlaut

Gún

as I say this.

I think the current gamestate is more indicative of FB being town over scum

[Gamma Emerald]

The Dunn wagon is just too current.

Guess what? The Johnny wagon felt that way when it formed too.

[Gamma Emerald]

Not really
I think it took some level of browbeating

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like Hiraki and Bell took a lot of work to get on the wagon
Btw wrt reasons, I personally don’t like the vibe I got from Dunnstral EoD1, it felt like he warped a motion that could have helped townread to instead hurt it. I also just don’t feel good about his overall content atp. That’s my reasoning, but Bell has some existing points (which is why I think Bell having to be talked into it and voting at the stage he did doesn’t seem like scum on a miselim).

[Gamma Emerald]

Vote for Iconeum with me!

no

[Gamma Emerald]

For JF or Dunn?

For Dunn. You just kinda went "eh I can do this" for Johnny
btw why'd you bring up you misreading Ico a lot?
also I agree we should get an extension

[Gamma Emerald]

yeah my read rate on Ico isn't great currently either
though I wasn't exactly calling that scummy, I was just poking his thought process

[Gamma Emerald]

if maxwell gains traction I'll vote it but I don't feel like no lim would be as informative as a lim in this scenario, so the motion needs to be there. I agree the multiple replacements is problematic though.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: maxwell
Fine.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Firebringer
When this flips town I expect y’all to fucking listen to me

[Gamma Emerald]

It’s between Akarin and Dunn for me but yeah this seems like a wrap
Do we wanna massclaim now? It’s probably the best point if we’re ever gonna do it.

[Gamma Emerald]

Not convinced, 1 or more of those deaths weren’t 100% scum-directed

Until someone says otherwise, they are.

Still thinking this, btw?

[Gamma Emerald]

Aren’t those picks done before alignment rand?

[Gamma Emerald]

Also, do not claim who you shot if you are a gun, at least until everyone has claimed.

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh, so Gun really was Mafia.
So many rep outs.
Really wish Fb didn't self-vote themselves.

Yeah when a slot gets that many replacements outside a newbie game it’s like 99% scum

[Gamma Emerald]

There’s only two people who can de-confirm that atp

[Gamma Emerald]

Two town guns left
Presumably one of them shot scum tonight, making it impossible for them to have hit someone N1
So it’s not very likely a town Gun killed one of Uncrowned/ABR

[Gamma Emerald]

I think I'm clear looking at earlier posts on gun.
Tanner look is iffy, but otherwise, I think I'm clean.

Anyone beg to differ? I only ask because I want to find the last one.

Dunstral acted oddly around Gun.
DGB slapped them with a town read for their monster post. But I actually don't hold strong feelings on that.

I think you’re good just for whatever. Scum interactions clearing you is gravy for me.

[Gamma Emerald]

Akarin also defended you and Mom (and then flipped on mom when it counted)