Community

[N.Y. M]

Hello everyone

- The least awesome head

[N.Y. M]

Well, both of my hydra partners left me out to dry, it seems.

-Rhae

[N.Y. M]

ego

I didn’t get a pm in my inbox and didn’t check the hydra inbox. I didn’t leave you out to dry Yume. I just literally found out the game had started.

Bullshit.

Charmed

No, my name is awesome “dead weight” Nancy and we went through this spiel already with my log in issues in Masque, so you know I don’t make stuff like that up.

I trust you you will eventually come to your senses like you did in that game.

So far liking - but also want to shake - you, furtive, Passenger and maybe Herta.

I don’t know when Mastina will show up. Feel free to accuse of lying about that too.

~Awesome “dead weight” Nancy

[N.Y. M]

I’m not using up more than one of whatever’s remaining of my 125 posts on this nonsense. I would probably br sr you rn if it weren’t both for Masque and I can’t remember which game but Pooky was scum in that and he said that you had a polarized meta where you lurk out as scum and hyperpost as town.

So you can continue to wrongly push me and look stupid doing so, up to you. I can’t bus anyone because I’m town and if you knew a damn thing about my meta, you would know that I don’t have sr’s straight out of the gate in most cases.

I’m taking my fucking time because we have a post cap of only 125 posts with 3 heads. I had 250 in Happy Face and almost had 200 posts in under two rl days.

I will look at your Flavia case but going out of your way to piss me off when you’re apparently being pretty dense here because I once again repeat: I don’t make stuff like that up. Btw, I did check our discord and Mastina should be on tomorrow.

In my ego post, I addressed Yume and none of us are ghosting. If you’re going to pursue this nonsense, I will probably just ignore you, your call.

[N.Y. M]

VOTE: Flavia

[N.Y. M]

Town (most to least): The Bombay, Frogsterking, Passenger, DeasVail, JohnnyFarrar, Herta, Flavia, PenguinPower

Therefore a POE of 5:
Andres - done nothing really
Bell - feels a bit sus like I said earlier
Kokabiel - I don't really like 218, seems to have scum mindset on the brain talking about me 'pocketing' The Bombay and then goes and says 'I really like Passenger because he is always engaging and is thinking about stuff from multiple angles' but yeah hmm
NYM - done nothing, don't like the vote on Flavia which was unexplained. I think Flavia seems quite natural so far.
Star Power - done nothing. I don't really think their opening was scummy but just lack of posting so in the poe.

You’ve probably got two reads wrong there: us and I think Bell. I think Flavia wagon is pure. I thought you were better at reading me. Maybe you should maybe reread Trees again. I think the similarities should eventually become overwhelmingly obvious to you. Anyway, I agree with you on 218 so might switch my vote to that.

And it’s kind of ridiculous to call my vote here “naked”. A) it’s a post cap game and B) I told Frogs I would look at his case and found it pretty compelling but I’m starting to lean to maybe Kokabiel being scummier. I don’t understand why they are so over the top defensive in pretty much every single post.

I’m also liking Bombay. Luke sounds similar here to LOST I think.

~Nancy

[N.Y. M]

UNVOTE:

[N.Y. M]

So just to let y'all know, I'm mostly going to be in the background this game. I'm not going to be actively posting especially given the post limit--we need every post we have, so like. Unless I feel like there's an argument that *I* need to be the one posting, or there's someone who really wants me to respond

directly

to them (you can ask me to respond to things indirectly, and I can ask my hydra partners to relay it in one of their posts, but if you insist on a direct response from me I'll fit one in), I'll not be doing much in the way of posting.

Additionally, when I *do* post, I'll be breaking things up to indicate "I would normally be ending a post here, posting it, and then making a new one". At that point, prior sections of a post are locked in, and will not be edited. For instance, this one's gonna be this post, as well as however many rvs posts I'd comment on, as well as any non-rvs posts, as well as a readslist, so at least four posts, in one post, and marked as such.

Just as a heads up.
/

0 end

---

Alrighty then, let's get started.

Hey the game started. Don't mind if I do.
VOTE: The Bombay

Bell. (Too early to townread.)

JUST the delegation?

Hello! To make up for all the votes in Frog’s post, I will not vote.

VOTE: johnny

Hi everyone. I'm the Miller

Town.

Hello everyone! I am here, ready to be a shining light against the delegation!
VOTE: DeasVail

Town?

VOTE: Furtilevengeance because every time I read your name in my head it comes out as that instead of whatever your name actually is

VOTE: Star Power
I hate shining lights. Always being deceptive.

VOTE: Star Power

Scum?

HURT: JohnnyFarrar (where I'd vote on page one if solo)
/

1 end

---

Page two!

VOTE: Bell

Town.

VOTE: johnny

Hi everyone

Town?

I am kind of thinking that StarPower appearing to not know that there is a 3rd party makes them more likely to be town.
Seriously doubt that the actual 3rd party would not be too self-conscious to frame it that way, so imo town>scum>3rd party

I agree with this, so move StarPower from 'town?' to town.

/

2 end

---

Pretty sure I'd be making a readslist now normally since most players had posted, but I can wait until I see all posters.

Anyway, I’m going to sleep. I’m back tomorrow.

Okay so this is gonna seem oddly specific but I think that Andres is, very specifically, the Government/Antisocial operative. It's purely a gut thing, but Andres doesn't feel town to me, so would be 'scum?' here normally, but yet, by gut, I somehow don't feel like Andres is purely scum. It feels like he's scum, but not

scum

, scum, so like: I think he, specifically, is the Government/Antisocial operative, here.

That said:
HURT: Frogsterking
It was between him and Johnny for my vote page one, but I think off of his later content I prefer Frogsterking--I still scumread both tho.

/

3 end

---

Btw from here, probably not gonna have one 'post' per page, it'll spread out more as I go. That said, we've had all 13 other players post at this point in time, so I can actually put an initial readslist, here!

MASTINA'S PERSONAL READSLIST

(no consulting hydra heads):
LOCKTOWN:
{The Bombay}
{Star Power, furtiveglance}

TOWN:
{DeasVail, PenguinPower}
{Kokabiel}
{Herta, Passenger}

BELL:
{Bell} (I'll let you know in half a week or so)

SCUM:
{Flavia, JohnnyFarrar, Frogsterking}

ANTISOCIAL GOVERNMENT AGENT:
{Andresvmb}
/

4 end

---

On to page five, then.

It is weird that only one of them has posted.

I can give some insight into that.
It wasn't until today that we had a hydra PT.
Before then, it was a discord.
I had a six-day power outage which prevented me from really engaging in this game, which only ended yesterday--but I was swamped with catching up on various life things, so I couldn't contribute anything until then.

All three of us are also trying to go conservative on the post counts--I'm the least-active of the three of us and yet even I alone can eat up 125 in one day. Add in that Yume and Nancy are the two players who top the post count charts, and we need to be

really careful

about eating up every single one of those 125. The 125 limit would stifle Nancy if she were playing solo; if Yume got invested into the game, she'd hit the 125 limit on her own, too; even I could hit it on my own. And yet we have to share three players' worth of posts in one slot, since the limit doesn't increase for a hydra.

I am aware that it is easy for scum that are usually hyper-active to hide behind a postcount limit. But while that's valid, there are actually VERY good reasons

we in particular

need to be cautious, there. (Also as a side-note, I wasn't planning to effort this game if I were a solo player. I'm kinda burnt out from being mastina all the time, so I wasn't gonna be active anyway.)

Beyond that tho, Yume wasn't sure who would be doing most of the posting; she asked if we wanted to or if it would be her. She said that we needed to say something, in order to not get replaced, and was worried we had more or less abandoned her. Nancy hadn't realized the game started because gamestart PMs were not sent to hydra's individual accounts (Bombay, as the other hydra, should be able to confirm that), but we'll probably be picking up. I got the impression both were waiting for me to some extent, and now that I am here, we'll be a little more active.

I like how Flavia just ignores everything AI over the last couple pages which would be inconvenient for them to take a stance on.

I like how in spite of noting this, you don't actually vote Flavia.

Side-note, I feel pretty good about my locktown here and my town are reasonable in strength and I have reasons for the scum being scum and it all lines up perfectly numbers-wise, but obviously I'm not confident in most of my reads being right. I like my locktown as town. I like DV/PP as town. Below that though, in Kokabiel and below, I could be wrong. But for earlygame, I think I'm fine.

/

5 end

---

Continuing on:
I realize that Frogsterking actually does vote Flavia here, with a case no less, but tbh, it kinda feels like a bus tone-wise. It feels like Frogsterking is using logic he knows is good to make a push he knows is good, but that he isn't actually invested in the push because he is making it to be performative.

I'll admit I could be wrong, he could be town casing scum, or scum making a hollow push on town.

But gutwise he looks like scum distancing.

*tilts head* tbh I’m surprised more people aren’t voting me, I say completely oblivious that I haven’t played with half the game before. Therefore they don’t know that my activity is kind of a blaring red sign that I’m scum here.

Oh I'm aware! But, I'm also aware of the postcount restriction running afoul of your normal style, and that the game is just starting. So, I'm giving you some leeway--not unlimited leeway, mind you, but enough to be cognizant of how you're not going to be what town-you is expected to be...at least, not yet.

I actually lean town on you, but I'm monitoring you closely.

/

6 end

---

Almost there!

VOTE: Flavia

I approve of this vote. <3
HURT: Flavia
To make it clear that, yes, it has my seal of approval.

Kokabiel is an

Advocate

!

I hope this was a pre-timed thing because if that was an activated role-based thing I'm incredibly disappointed in it being fired off immediately, here.

Anyway, caught up. Slightly updated readslist:

MASTINA'S PERSONAL READSLIST

(no consulting hydra heads):
LOCKTOWN:
{The Bombay, furtiveglance}
{Star Power}

TOWN:
{DeasVail, PenguinPower, Kokabiel}

{Herta, Passenger}

LEAN TOWN:
{Bell} (needs about half a week to figure out for sure)

SCUM:
{Flavia, JohnnyFarrar, Frogsterking}

ANTISOCIAL GOVERNMENT AGENT:
{Andresvmb}

-mastina

[N.Y. M]

Okay we might be hitting that post count limit because I am immediately disregarding my own fucking stance of only engaging if I feel I have to or if directly asked to directly do so.

I don't know mastina well enough to know if they are unwilling to learn from past mistakes.

I do learn! But I don't have eidetic memory. Simply put, I haven't played with you enough to have a good foundation for you. A single, minor, past mistake that was mostly not notable in part for how shortly it lasted, ain't gonna magically make me able to know you.

I was dayvigged early into TFT uPick and while I thought you scum even from the grave initially, my stance there shifted and was ultimately irrelevant given you died shortly after me anyway.

I didn't get a chance to properly have a wrong push on you. And I learn from

pushes

I perform, not from reads made from a distance. While I was keeping up with TFT from the dead, and trying to solve up to a point, my lack of ability to actually push/engage the town/etc. means that simply put: I have no memory of what happened that game. (I have shit memory on the best of days tbh.)

It's only when I have something very strong happen that things become memorable. Memorably getting a read wrong, memorably getting a read right, both of those I remember and learn from and my mistakes are learned from those.

But simply put:
You were forgettable.

You aren't nearly as memorable as you seem to think you are.

Maybe you can become so, but so far, you hadn't been.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... 8.2B1.0.29

You're not the only one who can link to mafia theory, mate. Take a look at here and see how many of those I wrote.
And how many I wrote on townplay.

It's a lot of them.

Now, granted.

I've always been insistent on "do as I say, not as I do"; if I listened to all of my own MD advice I'd be a far better player than I actually am.
It's hard for me to actually do the things I say you should do as town, so I can't pull them off.

Also granted!
The articles are all fairly old--while I say they are largely timeless, not all of their advice is applicable. Much of it is cyclical, depending on the current town meta. And there's some that's just outright outdated. Plus, many were poorly written, with a few that are memes, and the ideas behind them were never properly fleshed out.

And, granted!

My philosophy as a player has shifted a lot;
my current philosophy is the philosophy of the "push strongly, and never stop pushing"--I never wrote my article on this, but it is essentially what I call "the ideal of mastina", which is the idea that by me being me, making exaggerated pushes of high strength and pushing them hard, it is pro-town even, or arguably especially, when I am wrong, because those engagements generate content that make it harder for the scum to win the game.

That short-term, you might get TvT fights and even eliminate town who arguably should not have been eliminated, but that the process of the hard push still guides the game in a direction that is highly, innately, pro-town. That, counterintuitive as it seems, all those strong TvT pushes actually make it easier for the town to win, because when handled appropriately, it allows for the town to form proper information networks where the revelation of the alignments involved in certain areas basically blows the entire game wide open. Where once one or two key players have their alignment revealed, the previous hard pushes spew the entire game's players' alignments.

That philosophy is one which, objectively, is inferior to a more objective/reasonable/logical approach.

But, somehow, it still produces good results. Even--and arguably,

especially

when I am wrong--the strong pushes I make can help make the town at some point just

click

, in ways that make it hard for scum to win.

It might seem arrogant to say that a strong wrong push from me helps the town more than a more reserved right push would--but I strongly and firmly believe that, by and large, it DOES. I am okay with being the player with the worst reads in the game; I am okay with, in spite of having terrible reads, believing that my reads are great and pushing off of that. I am okay with not getting the credit for what I did; I am okay with players believing that the town won in spite of me, not because of me.

But, while the town might think that my strong pushes on town mean that they won in spite of me not because of me, I genuinely believe that those wrong pushes actually ARE vital to the town's wins in those games. It is usually not in the most obvious of ways. For instance, in Datisi's cafe I was wrong on basically everything. But I still feel my pushes were vital to the town's win there. Ydrasse became conftown by guiltying Titus in a way she could not have achieved otherwise.
I managed to force fireisredsir to lock in a claim that eventually got him killed by the serial killer--he very much didn't want to make that claim, but felt forced into making it off of my push that I had a guilty on him. And it got him killed, which in turn eliminated the last groupscum from the game, making furtiveglance be boxed in.
I managed to get nightkilled by fireisredsir, and the nightkill on me looked like it was made by furtiveglance, which helped get furtiveglance eliminated in the end.
And beyond that, Dannflor was one of the final candidates for being a final scum, but I feel like Dannflor was seen as more town in part because of the way he had handled things the entire game, which I was a significant contribution to; Dannflor was forced to put up with my bullshit, and the way that Dannflor dealt with my bullshit didn't just spew him as not groupscum but also spewed him as being just town.
Among others.

Could the town have still won without all of that? Well, being honest with myself: yeah, probably. These things might've still happened without my strong wrong pushes. But we can never really know what would have happened without the strong pushes, what we know is what happened with the strong pushes and the town won that game with those things being contributing factors to it. The town from there will probably say it was in spite of me not because of me and that I am delusional for saying what I did helped them win. And I am okay with that, because I am at peace with the flaws behind my chosen current philosophy of play.
I will always need to acknowledge all the areas I fuck up in. I make it a point to, unless I am explaining this philosophy like I am right now, not actually claim credit for the things, even if I feel like credit should be given for the effect I have on games. I am a facilitator of activity. I am an amplifier of activity.
Games are more active with me in them, than with me not in them. (Most of the record-breaking games have me in them, and that is not a coincidence.) In spite of me never being the top poster in them! I'm usually barely in the top-50%, in the ~25-33% range. There's like 5-8 players whose activity exceeds mine in games. Yet every game in which I die in, there is an IMMEDIATE drop in activity the next phase. Literally every single game I am in.

I don't think that's coincidence. You'd expect drops in activity when there are less players alive in any game, but in games I am in where I live, game activity really

does

seem to mostly stay constant in spite of the dwindling number of living players--until the phase I die. After which, it plummets off a cliff. And I don't think it's arrogance to say that's a direct result of my presence in the game and the affect having me around and pushing has on player activity. I make people post more, I make them engage more, just by living to the mastina ideal.

I'm aware it won't be appreciated by the players. I'm aware they see me as annoying, frustrating, and anti-town. Delusional. Arrogant. I am aware they think I deserve no credit for their wins, that they believe the town won in spite of me. I am aware I need to constantly acknowledge all of my fuckups and that I have very little in the way of tangible definitive proof that demonstrates that I did actually help the town. The only way there would ever be proof of me being right would be if we could view alternative realities where I didn't do what I did and see how the town fared in those games compared to the one in our reality. Since that's impossible, my value to towns is speculative. I speculate it is tangibly a notably good thing, just not a thing I can point to being good. So I recognize that others who believe my speculation to be wrong, will think that I am less than worthless. That my prior articles had a superior playstyle, that what I was doing in the old days was more effective and that the current mastina is just trash that drags games down.

But I stick by my beliefs in the philosophy of conviction. I have conviction in my conviction.

ALL OF THIS IS TO SAY,

You can link to your own MD theory, but so can I.

On D1, especially this early, there

is

no established townbloc to be paranoid of. There IS no establishment of how the town are acting and how the scum are acting. There isn't any idea of what the town are doing and what the scum are doing. So there is no reason to not speak openly about your thoughts.

If this were D3 and the town was doing well and you were a large contributing factor to that, Frogsterking, you would be quite correct; saying "I think Frogsterking is bussing" would be actively harmful to the game.

But it is not D3 with the town doing well.

It is D1 with the game still early.

And,

VOTE: Passenger

You explicitly pivoted

away

from Flavia.

You pivoted away from voting the read that I think is right,
Onto a read that is more of a tossup and a less surefire thing that I currently lean town on (albeit weakly so).

Objectively, why

shouldn't

I think your Flavia push was distancing?

You literally wrote up a case for why Flavia is scum, and

abandoned

the case to chase after Passenger instead.

Your entire argument would be valid if you were still actively pushing Flavia, but you are actively pushing AWAY from Flavia.

That means that, actually, yes.

You DO look like scum distancing.

Yes mastina, gogo, get that scummy frog. If I post a case it's because I'm bussing and know it will make me look good, if I don't post a case it's because I'm scum who hasn't thought about my reads. Excellent deductions.

This would be valid if you actually stuck to Flavia and/or we were later into the game.

But to reiterate.

We are in the early stages of D1.

And you pivoted away from the Flavia case you wrote.

Why shouldn't I, with my suspicion of Flavia, think that you writing a good case on Flavia and then discarding it when Flavia is gaining momentum to push elsewhere, is you distancing Flavia but avoiding committing to the hard bus?

What makes that be an unreasonable and paranoia-based conclusion? That you know your alignment and know it's not true?

Well newsflash, I don't, so I am going to call it like I see it.

Could you be town who simply decided to focus elsewhere?

Well, yes!

But there's no reason for you to get over-defensive about the callout which, contrary to your assertions, is actually a perfectly reasonable one to make in this gamestate.

-mastina
(gotta go, I know there's more recent posts but I wasn't meant to make even this one but I couldn't not comment on it, sorry)

[N.Y. M]

It's a Moonlight dancer with an additional on-death trigger, and no it's sadly not a vengeful.
I claimed and gave out my reads so there is no info you can get from me apart from the flip. So y'all useless lazy town without any reads better start working. 4 Days remaining, you can always come back to finish the job.

I’m leaning to probably town on this. Btw Frogs, if you’re going to continue wrongly push us, I sadly won’t be able to trust the rest of your reads, so smarten tf up if you want our help.

I haven’t yet caught up since yesterday so I will review and @furtive not naked vote, though it may appear that way due to the stupid post count thing.

We are a hydra and our reads aren’t all in agreement. I told Mastina in our discord that you were one of my top townreads but if enough time passes and you don’t realize we’re town when you read me correctly in LOST, Elected Decisions and eventually in Masque, I may possibly lose confidence in that.

It’s maybe a weakness in my solve but when slots that claim to be good at scumhunting and I know you can be continue to wrongly read me, I ultimately lose faith in their solve. Do better.

~Awsome obvtown Nancy

[N.Y. M]

Spoiler:

Breaking down this interaction:

Post 1

Kokabiel says Marci’s vote on her is scummy.
Kokabiel says Marci asking Frogster to join the wagon is towny for Frogster.
Kokabiel says DeasVail inviting himself onto the wagon is scummy for DeasVail.

Post 2

Frogster asks why DeasVail is scummier than him, because they did the same thing.
Frogster says that Kokabiel is trying to start a TvT fight between DeasVail and Johnny

Post 3

Kokabiel asks Frogster why he claims that she faked her evaluation.
Kokabiel asks Frogster why he never asked Marci why she faked her read on her.

Post 4

Frogster asks Kokabiel why he would ask Marci why she voted Kokabiel.
Frogster asks Kokabiel why DeasVail inviting himself on the wagon is scummy.
Frogster asks Kokabiel why she disagrees with Johnny’s case on DeasVail.
Frogster asks Kokabiel why she is asking him questions.

My Analysis:

Kokabiel scumreads Marci because Marci’s vote on her was a naked vote with no explanation. This doesn’t make sense, because Marci’s vote was clearly RVS. From this incorrect premise Kokabiel comes to the logical conclusion that Frogster is town and DeasVail is scum. Her assumption that Marci is scum for her naked vote is an NAI overreaction.

Frogster does not understand both Kokabiel’s premise and her logic, and thinks she must be trying to start a fight between DeasVail and Johnny. This point is invalid because her premise is wrong but NAI and her logic is correct. Frogster is scummy for this post because he assumes that because he doesn’t understand something, it must be scummy. If he was trying to engage with her in good faith he would have waited for her answer.

Kokabiel correctly points out Frogster’s leap of “I don’t understand” to “this is scum.” Frogster responds by asking Kokabiel questions she has already answered and then he asks her what she intends to achieve by asking him questions. Frogster also says that he will always scumread things he doesn’t understand.

By this point, Frogster has conceded he engaged in scummy behavior, and all of his reasons for Kokabiel being scum are invalid because of that.
VOTE: Frogster

I dislike this post, Passenger seems to be basically treating Frogs like he’s town but nevertheless reaching the conclusion that he’s scum. This analysis makes no sense. and the logical conclusion from this premise logically ought to be Frogs is incorrect in his analysis as opposed to being scum.

VOTE: Passenger

~Nancy

[N.Y. M]

Day 1 Count V

Passenger (3) - Andresvmb, Frogsterking, Herta
Flavia (2) - Bell, N.Y. M
PenguinPower (1) - JohnnyFarrar
Bell (1) - furtiveglance
DeasVail (1) - Star Power
The Bombay (1) - Kokabiel
Kokabiel (1) - PenguinPower
Star Power (1) - Flavia
Frogsterking (1) - Passenger

Not Voting

- DeasVail, The Bombay

Notes

• My mod ISO is here.
  
• The Bombay and Herta are V/LA until Monday.
  
• I'm pretty sure Penguin is on weekend V/LA but I'll doublecheck.
  
• If I missed any other V/LAs, let me know.
  
• With 14 remaining, it takes 8 to form a majority.

The

Day

concludes in (expired on 2022-11-16 17:00:00).

I don’t understand Herta, you aren’t voting there? I could switch my vote back to her but I really disliked that posts and there are others, like Pqssenger sr furtive for claiming “the” miller”. In OMB, I recall scum!Gamma sr a slot due to something like that. Hyperfocusing on things like that are something scum is more likely to do where as town tends not to really pay too much attention to things like that.

Hi everyone. I'm the Miller

Is this TMI? furtive says that he is

the

miller, as opposed to just a miller. This suggests that he knows there is no miller in the game, thus suggesting that killer is a fakeclaim he was given by the mod.

I read that claim and didn’t even notice the “the”. It’s just seems bizarre how he came up with this analysis from that. Had he just asked furtive why the “the”, I probably wouldn’t think much of it.

But if you were currently voting Flavia and not Passenger, your question would make way more sense to me as you clearly prefer Passenger to Flavia, so I’m really confused now?

Mastina wants to vote Frogs and I definitely disagree with that. I don’t really have enough of a read on Johnny yet to pursue that one way or the other.

~Nancy

[N.Y. M]

...my player slot was combined with Titus and turned into a mod-given Hydra called "Legends" who proceeded to eliminate scum D1 and absorb 4 consecutive dayvig shots from the scum team. If you are telling the truth and this was a banal series of events to you--DOUBT--then sign me up for whatever games you have been playing please.

And then after absorbing those shots, you immediately died.

You're not contradicting what I said.

You weren't notable to me that game because I died immediately to the first scum daykill and you died shortly after. The scum spent every kill they had to kill me and then you. I had a wrong read on you when I was alive, but if I recall correctly I had reasons for shifting it when dead into a more correct read and then you died shortly after anyway.

I wasn't referring to you being absorbed into Legends when I said you died shortly thereafter.

I was referring how you were the second person the scum killed, with me being the first. It took them longer to kill you than it did to kill me, but you still died early-on, and I died even earlier on.

We had more time in the dead PT together than we did with you alive and me dead and we had more time with you alive and me dead than we had with both of us alive. And because I'm more of a tactile learner, that meant I simply put: didn't remember you for you. I remember the overall presence of the Legends hydra and what they caused to happen. (Scum repeatedly shooting them to kill them.) I remember none of your play. Why would I? Your play at that point was more in a audio/visual-learning style. Distanced from the action. I don't remember games I read but don't play in. I don't remember the details of game I mod (players who played in them literally remember my own games better than I do), or the details of games I review. I don't remember the details of games I played after I died. I don't remember the details of games where I wasn't pushing. (Which is why most of my games older than a few years ago, I have no memory of. I didn't have the playstyle I have no, so I don't remember what happened.)

Because I remember events happening when I push people; I don't remember events happening when I don't push people.

You can doubt that all you want, but as *I* am the one with access to my mind and you do not have that, it's MY stance we'll be using because I'm the one who knows how I process information and retain it long-term.

If I hadn't been daykilled by the scum that game and was around to push you long-term, then I probably

would

have remembered--but because I WAS daykilled by the scum and couldn't push you long-term, I didn't. It's that simple. You're not notable if you're not involved in a longterm push I make.

(Mind you, I use 'push' here loosely. Push also involves me pushing townreads as town. Push involves someone fighting me on my read with a counter-push of their conflicting read. But if I don't push you as town or scum long-term, and you don't counter-push my push on a player as town/scum long-term, I am not going to remember. It's that simple.)

And you pivoted away from the Flavia case you wrote.
Why shouldn't I, with my suspicion of Flavia, think that you writing a good case on Flavia and then discarding it when Flavia is gaining momentum to push elsewhere, is you distancing Flavia but avoiding committing to the hard bus?

Because that's the dumbest scum play I've ever heard and makes no sense whatsoever from an Informed perspective?

Competent scum players make plans. These plans are flexible, and still involve a certain amount of improvising in the moment, but their actions usually reflect them having either already come up with a plan, or as a result of an action, begin to formulate a plan.

Do you disagree with that as a premise? That competent scum tend to think ahead? That while they might make decisions in-the-moment, they usually plan for the future and lay the groundwork for lategame in every move they make? (Or least, attempt to.)

Because as long as you don't disagree with that premise, then there shouldn't be any reason you can't understand the motive from an informed perspective for the action.

Pushing a scumbuddy for distancing with a case, but pivoting away, is not an action which will earn you credit in the moment.
It is an action that will earn you credit come the mid to lategame, when people go back to review your iso and see what you did, when.
Demonstrating a progression of thought is often seen as town, so as scum, progressing thoughts is a good way to make you look good to people looking back later.
Demonstrating a strong scumread on a player who might have flipped scum later in the game, increases the odds that you will be townread later in the game if that scum actually does flip. But by having avoided actually pushing it through, you allow for the scum to be eliminated in the midgame or not at all, rather than forcing it through early.

Those are signature traits of any remotely competent scum player--faking read progression and keeping scumbuddies alive in a way that furthers the scum win condition without being obvious about keeping scumbuddies alive and in fact laying groundwork for it to look town when they flip.


I admit that this does rely a bit on Flavia being scum--it's not nearly as true with Flavia as town.

But you can't seriously tell me that you don't see how that'd be good scumplay. It's not some revolutionary concept. It's arguably basic. You'd have better luck arguing it's so basic that it being that basic is why it isn't actually scum (too basic scum to be scum, a variant on too scummy to be scum), but even there I don't think it's too basic. It's not super-advanced, but it's not surface-level, either.

Now, does that mean that you actually are scum? No.
Does that mean that you actually did it? No.

But don't pretend that there is no merit to the theory. There is. There isn't a question of if the theory has merit; there is a question of if the theory is actually true or not, if the merit actually means something or not.

I'm not going to push you because Nancy believes you are town and my read on you was--explicitly--a weak one. (I very explicitly said as much.) My read not strong, her read VERY strong, I trust Nancy's read and don't trust my own read, so like: I'm not really interested in pursuing you, here.

But I am still going to call things as I see them, because there's literally no reason not to, not at this stage of the game.

Later into D1 and into the early midgame, sure! Callouts should be more strategic.

But less than 72 hours into the first day of the game?

What makes you so defensive towards the comment suggesting you're scum?
As town, you don't need to be concerned--it's the earlygame and you can prove yourself to be town with time.
You can't tell me that scum wouldn't have reason to be concerned to see early suspicion on them.

1) mastina is pushing me because they actually think I'm distancing from Flavia.

As a matter of fact, I'm not!

I'm not pushing you because you are a

weak

scumread of mine, who is a STRONG townread of Nancy. That means I am not interested in pushing you at all. Her read overrides mine. I'll still

note

my read, because there's no reason not to, but I'm not pushing you. So you'd be quite correct to believe I'm not pushing you, because I'm not.

And you are also quite correct to believe that I'm not pushing you just because of your Flavia push looking like distancing. Because I wasn't. I said you were a scumlean of mine since page one. Were you pushing Flavia on page one? Why no, no you were not. My scumread predates your Flavia push so naturally, my scumread is in no way shape or form reliant on the Flavia push.

But,
I individually think Flavia looks like scum;
I individually think your play looks scum;
I have enough townreads that you two both would be in the PoE;
Your post looked like distancing specifically to me--it didn't look like scum making a push on town, it didn't look like town making a push on scum, it specifically looked like scum distancing from scum.

These are things worth noting, even if I don't push them, because there's literally no reason not to.

2) the TfT game is so forgettable they can barely remember it.

It was! I don't remember the details of games after I die in them. I don't see how that's such a shocking concept to you considering most players don't. Like, literally, most players once they die stop reading the game. And thus, don't remember what happened after they died. Even if they do read the game, because they're not engaging it, there's more of a disconnect between their memory because of the lack of engagement. It's simple brain science. If you're not actively there as an active participant, you're more of an observer to the event. Observers have poorer memory than participants.

I was an observer for most of TFT, so I do not have the memory of a participant.

The most memorable part of TFT is that the scum dayvigged me almost immediately in the game, the moment they realized they could. That's what I remember from that game. I don't even remember the players, yet alone, the specifics of the day phases, because while I remember a lot of the most important roles (the Legends role, Yume inheriting their role), I remember none of the details. Because they weren't involving me.

3) 302 is a Town post. It seems to be written mostly about things unrelated to the game in a way that scum do when they aren't sure what to say.

I mean, it's fair that I do talk a lot about theory just for the fun of it and have a noted tendency to do that as scum, but the only reason it's notable as scum is because that's the only thing present in my iso as scum. It's not actually alignment indicative, so much as it is, it is more obviously visible when I am scum and less visible when I am town because the total volume of my content as town is just so much more, whereas the total volume of my scum posting is so small that the theory is more visible.

But, talking theory is fun to me because I am highly invested in mafia theory, so give me an opportunity and I

will

debate with you, because I find it fascinating, fun, and I love to preach my viewpoint and my perspective.

The difference is, as scum these rambles tend to just be there for the sake of being there, whereas when town they are usually triggered by something and I am making a specific point in that post.

Don't fucking pretend that 302 had no point in it. There was a lot of theory in that post, but you know what all of that theory was highlighting?

It was highlighting why I have suspicion on you. There was

purpose

behind it. It wasn't unrelated to the game--there was an actual tangible REASON for posting it.

I'm not going to push you because Nancy has you as her strongest townread.
But I'm also not going to just not say my own personal read on you.
That read is

barely

south of null, because it is a weak read, all gut, mostly tone.
But I'm not going to lie about the read or not state it, just because of that.

I am going to state my reasons, even if they are weak, and to elaborate when asked on them more.

@mastina

I was white-knighting Kokabiel and Flavia… but you also said earlier

Nah my read trajectory on you makes sense, re-evaluating is Townie and being too consistent is a scum tell. My read changed on you because I'm uninformed so it takes me longer than you to figure out what's going on. Like I said, this is really vanilla BnB scum whining your putting out, I need something spicier if I'm expected to pay attention to your complaints.

In the case the irony in 312 is lost on you.

I am afraid even with this, whatever point you are trying to make doesn't come through.

Are you trying to say that a scum-you

cannot

adjust your read on players, and justify this shift with reasoning?
That'd be disrespectful to your scumplay and incredible shallow reasoning.

You quoted from my article that nobody does anyone favors by arbitrarily assuming something

must

be true, implying you agree with that phrase.

But it is that very phrase that I am invoking in my suspicion on you.

When I said "objectively, why

shouldn't

I think your Flavia push was distancing?", that is not me arbitrarily assuming something must be true. It's me having analyzed the situation, and seeing one conclusion as more likely than the other, and asking you, why do you find that conclusion unreasonable to make? You knowing your alignment and thoughts know if the conclusion is right or wrong, but you can know an argument is wrong while still acknowledging the merit behind the logic, and providing an explanation for why it's not true.

When I say "no arbitrarily assuming something must be true", that backs me up in read trajectory not being seen as a universal towntell. Your trajectory notably changed. You are saying that change in trajectory was inherently town. If you are town you know it was town--but arguing it was

inherently

town is objectively not true.

From a skilled scum player, your trajectory fits.
Does that mean the trajectory CAME from scum? No.
But I am still going to call it as I see it, and note the suspicion.

I'm not going to push it.

But I am going to note it.

I haven't read enough to say one way or the other. I'm just complainin'

Btw Johnny does look like scum here.

Just sayin'.

But why move off of Flavia? After Mastina just endorsed your vote?

Nancy and Yume can vote wherever they please, as far as I'm concerned, as long as it's not my locktown.

I gave them permission to override my read on literally anyone except my conftown (albeit preferring they stay off DV and PP too as well as wanting to give Bell more time and stay away for now).
They can vote any of the other seven players and have my blessing.

I endorse the Flavia vote, but I will give my blessing to them if they want to vote any of Kokabiel, Herta, Passenger, Flavia, Johnny, Frogsterking, Andres}.
I personally have gut-based townreads on Kokabiel, Herta, and Passenger, but I explicitly have said those reads are:
-early
-gut
-weak,

And thus can be freely overridden if they want to pursue them.

-mastina

[N.Y. M]

Btw at the risk of wasting yet another post tho,
Frogsterking's post here actually

does

make me think that he's town.

His handling of my engagement with me, as well as the conclusion he is forming from the engagement with me, DOES look like town.

I'm stupidly engaging with him and wasting posts because I can't help myself, and I will defend my right to have read him as scum from what he gave. I stand by that what he did was not inherently town, that my gut scumread was valid, etc.
But while I believe that the scumread was not unreasonable to hold, that the scumread was valid, that it was also wrong, and I agree with Nancy now that he is probably town.

[N.Y. M]

Btw at the risk of wasting yet another post tho,
Frogsterking's post here actually

does

make me think that he's town.

His handling of my engagement with me, as well as the conclusion he is forming from the engagement with me, DOES look like town.

I'm stupidly engaging with him and wasting posts because I can't help myself, and I will defend my right to have read him as scum from what he gave. I stand by that what he did was not inherently town, that my gut scumread was valid, etc.
But while I believe that the scumread was not unreasonable to hold, that the scumread was valid, that it was also wrong, and I agree with Nancy now that he is probably town.

-mastina

[N.Y. M]

NYM's secret: they're probably Town.

I only came here to say you're my new favorite person.

- Rhae/Martin

[N.Y. M]

I wasn't expecting much but damn do i still feel disappointed by the lack of concrete reads.
Apart from Catguin who i'm 90% certain is scum, I'm not that confident with the other scum reads.
Lack of content is everywhere so it's not even a scumtell.
Fraudsterking and passenger are town. Furtive claimed miller so it's unlikely as well.
Other scum well...
Johnny and Flavia would be my best guesses right now.
Alternatives to them: Deas, N.Y.M.
Mastina isn't crazy enough to be town yet, but it's still early to tell
Still want to scumread Marci, but it might just be saltiness over being owned and her awful character at this point. Liking Luke for town.

VOTE: Kokabiel

Splitting up reads based off of different hydra heads is extremely suss to me. I’m thinking that Koka and Flavia are unaligned here. Still dislike Passenger but it strikes me as being pretty disingenuous to split reads on Bombay and completely ignore my input.

And Deas has been really townie, so that alone is whack.

~Nancy

[N.Y. M]

Other things pinging me is that she has us and Penguin in her PoE who had previously defended her, that is something scum are far more likely to do than town. Unless you’re someone like Dannflor, an extremely paranoid player who wrongly sr players who tr him and tr players who don’t, this is highly suss to me. Scum!Gamma loves to push people who tr him for example but tends to tr those slots when he’s town. Sr players who tr yoi looks townie seems to look townie because it seems counterintuitive but town in general tends to tr players who tr them unless that tr is either unwarranted for whatever reasons, so I find it truly suss that Koka is sr her strongest defender.

In a nutshell, if someone posts in a game that they confidently tr me and if that’s not unusual for that player to have that read, for example, if Mathblade were ever to locktown mr straight out of the gate, I’d probably want to yeet him out of the gate because dude has an 100% proven wrong bop on me when he knows my main but and furtive was being ridiculously beyond BEYOND overly pockety in Chromavalon but in general. I tend to tr those who tr me unless they actually have a history of pocketing me as scum.

~Nancy

[N.Y. M]

Splitting up reads based off of different hydra heads is extremely suss to me.

If you have 3 heads to make reads it makes perfect sense to me that you have 3X the weaknesses that comes along with it.
Well it makes sense that you want all the advantage's you have against solo players while disregarding the demerits that come alongside it.

Well, I’ve see scum do that with hydra heads and to me especially you’re splitting up Bombsy heads could possibly be a scum tactic to push that slot later on. You can essentially locktown one hydra head and still push that slot later if you have divided reads on them.

I also don’t see how we’re an alternative sr either, so that also weirds me out. What have we even done here that anyone could even consider to be remotely scummy?

I know furtive didn’t like my initial Flavia vote but I attribute that to him disregarding the post cap thing and not taking into account that I did read Frogs’ analysis before I made that vote. There is 0 reasons that make any sense to me for you to have us as an alternative sr.

VOTE: kokabiel

Kokabiel is an

Advocate

!

it be scum

I'll eat my socks.

like - with any seasoning or sauce, or just plain socks?

It's a Moonlight dancer with an additional on-death trigger, and no it's sadly not a vengeful.
I claimed and gave out my reads so there is no info you can get from me apart from the flip. So y'all useless lazy town without any reads better start working. 4 Days remaining, you can always come back to finish the job.

What's a "moonlight dancer?"

Remember this slip after i flip.

How is that a slip?

~Nancy

[N.Y. M]

FYI: if I were scum I’d avoid attacking people that are town reading me.

You were in FFIV and didn’t Gamma do just that? And maybe you don’t do that as scum but I’ve seen scum do that in plenty of games. If scum push players sr them, their townflip looks pretty bad on them when they flip but if scum were hypothetically to get a miselim on a player tr them, no one ever suspects them for it. My point is not that Koka stil couldn’t be town doing that but that it’s extremely unusual for town unless they have either a history of being pocketed by said player, the tr seems to come out of nowhere or is overly pockety, slot always reads them incorrectly, tr is weirdly hedgey for some reason as in X is probably town but y gives me pause etc., it’s unusual to sr a player who trs you unless there’s other things in their ISO that are suss and since it seems that Koka is claiming to sr Flavia, she obviously doesn’t have the same reasoning for being suss on us since furtive seems to be liking that slot, so that also doesn’t make sense to me.

You talk the talk, but you have yet to walk the walk.

What have you done this game for it to warrant a townread on you? Nothing.
The only thing is the scumread on me on the 11th hour and mastina going off wallposting.

I'm expecting town!Mastina to go full on deus vult on her scumreads so she is currently either not town or has no strong scumreads.

Like literally dafuq?

You didn’t nullread us, you put as as an alternative sr with no explanation for that whatsoever. And now you’re seriously saying that the only townie thing we’ve done is my recent vote on you? How is that even a thought that comes from town? You logically ought to have either been null or tr us prior to that vote and only expressing any suspicion on us post vote. You have a townie thought progression assbackwards here.

VOTE: kokabiel

Kokabiel is an

Advocate

!

it be scum

I'll eat my socks.

like - with any seasoning or sauce, or just plain socks?

It's a Moonlight dancer with an additional on-death trigger, and no it's sadly not a vengeful.
I claimed and gave out my reads so there is no info you can get from me apart from the flip. So y'all useless lazy town without any reads better start working. 4 Days remaining, you can always come back to finish the job.

What's a "moonlight dancer?"

Remember this slip after i flip.

Why did you claim? You only had one vote on you. And currently you only have three, yet you're making threats based off of your potential elimination.

THIS as well. There’s no good reason that I can think of for doing this so prematurely as town. Tprs generally don’t want to yah know telegraph to scum, hey I’m a tpr, please nk me tonight. Also your your AtEing pretty much every single post looks fake to me.

~Nancy

[N.Y. M]

Kokabiel is an

Advocate

!

Wait!

@mod what does this mean exactly?

UNVOTE:

until mod clarifys this. I obviously don’t want to lim them if this is a mod confirmed IC thing.

@Andres, I’m not currently sr you, if that helps.

I realize we are three heads and that can be very confusing since we’re obviously not on the same page with every read.

~Nancy

[N.Y. M]

VOTE: Passenger

[N.Y. M]

VOTE: Roden

[N.Y. M]

VOTE: Roden

The interactions between Frogs and Roden look exactly like their interactions in Elected Decisions. Passenger coulf be scum buy Roden feels really scummy to me.

Even Mastina has come around to Frogs’ town, so no I don’t seriously believe you genuinely think Frogs is scum here

~Nancy

[N.Y. M]

VOTE: Roden

The interactions between Frogs and Roden look exactly like their interactions in Elected Decisions. Passenger coulf be scum buy Roden feels really scummy to me.

Even Mastina has come around to Frogs’ town, so no I don’t seriously believe you genuinely think Frogs is scum here

~Nancy

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=89719&start=1325

Someone maybe Penguin, since he was also in that game, tell me what you think? My gut is getting scumpinged off the charts by Roden here.

I think if he were town here, he’d probably be extremely pissed at Frogs for wrongly scumreading him but his response to Frogs’ read on him here looks more like deflecting scum bravado to me than genuinely outraged town.

[N.Y. M]

VOTE: Passenger

So @Frogs, your theory then is Roden is being deliberately scummy to take the fall for Passenger?

I also think that locktowning Bombay this early reads like possible tmi to me because while I do think Bombay is very likely town, a locktown read this early seems kind of suss.

If someone said they hard tr me, I wouldn’t be suspicious but if they actually lock townread me on d1 ot before a single flip, I’d definitely be thinking tmi, unless they have meta locktowning slots like Mastina does of course.

So what’s the actual downside in limming Roden before Passenger? Do you think Passenger has a better role or something? I think both are scummy and agree that Koka is probably a bad wagon.

Standard version
A Moonlight Dancer can tell the moderator "Dance in the Moonlight" or something that is clear that they are activating their Moonlight Dancer ability. The moderator will immediately post a message that confirms that player as a Moonlight Dancer. Typically, a Moonlight Dancer can have this happen once every phase.

Variations
A Moonlight Dancer may be able to only dance once. Alternatively, the message can merely hint at them being a Moonlight Dancer.

Another variation of Moonlight Dancer is a passive role. A passive Moonlight Dancer is confirmed as such at the beginning of the game, or at some other predetermined time in the game.

A Moonlight Dancer is an Innocent Child with no meaningful information in their reveal.

Use & Balance
Moonlight Dancer is the ultimate confirmable role... Moonlight Dancer has no power beyond being trivially confirmable.

Moonlight Dancers are Named roles that can confirm that they are Named.

I think Koka is > likely a mod confirmed IC here based on this. I don’t know how much experience Koka has playing mafia but I used to play similarly when I was new to the game, had 30+ games all town but I got sr and miselimed a lot back then and even got the nickname “wolf magnet” because scum would jump on me like clockwork in pretty much every game I was in.

[N.Y. M]

Day 1 Count VII

Kokabiel (4) - Roden, Bell, DeasVail, PenguinPower
Passenger (4) - Andresvmb, Frogsterking, N.Y. M, furtiveglance
Roden (1) - Flavia
The Bombay (1) - Kokabiel
PenguinPower (1) - JohnnyFarrar
Frogsterking (1) - Passenger

Not Voting

- The Bombay, Herta

Notes

• My mod ISO is here.
  
• The Bombay and Herta are V/LA until Monday.
  
• If I missed any other V/LAs, let me know.
  
• With 14 remaining, it takes 8 to form a majority.

The

Day

concludes in (expired on 2022-11-16 17:00:00).

I can do this much. I wouldn’t want to be voting any wagon Roden is on and that pretty much spews Koka town/unaligned for me because I very much - even if it weren’t for the claim - can’t see it as a bus. Koka is probably town, both due to claim and Roden voting her.

But yeah, definitely doesn’t seem to be aligned with anyone but I strongly lean pissed off town.

~Nancy

[N.Y. M]

Oh yeah there was a change in scum rankings
Penguin - government
N.Y.M & Flavia - my scum bets
Deas and Johnny - alternative scum

N.Y.M was defensive of me putting them in the "solve". Then they got angry and called me scum because i'm using the vulnerability the hydra mech has. That's fine, it's not like people have their own opinions on hydras.
I gave them a list of topics they can explore which they promptly ignore because I dunno; It's like they are done milking me and think they have done enough content-wise

Okay then, I’m obviously not going to take your reads seriously in that case.

And when exactly did I get “angry”? I haven’t got angry even once in this game. Your solve isn’t reliable because I know you’re wrong on me but hey you do you, I think you’re wrong on Deas as well and I don’t see why Penguin is scum here. Even if you didn’t have such bad reads, I doubt I would listen to you over players who have meta on having good reads and my gut.

[N.Y. M]

Laughing, being dismissive and degrading other people's reads is a classic scum tactic.

@Frog: Assume i can be any alignment.

You really want me to vote you here is what it looks like. It’s weird that you continue trying to bait me.

I think you’re for some reason trying super hard to get yourself limmed because your play here makes 0 sense otherwise.

If I were actually voting you, than it would actually make sense but since I’m not it seriously hella weird.

[N.Y. M]

Nancy, what kind of roles do you think

try

to get themselves voted out? Besides Jester, I mean.

Idk maybe a venge? I’m starting to wonder now if Frogs is wrong on them because their play here is so bizarre. What makes absolutely no sense to me is why with so many votes on them, they’re both trying to provoke me and hard defend Passenger, which they have yet to explain.

Anyway, if I did wrongly jump the gun on you, explain your Koka read to me, because their reaction to me, does not at all resemble pissed off town, so something’s not adding up with that.

[N.Y. M]

I seriously don't understand your logic. Why does townreading me mean i should townread you? There are a number of reasons why you would townread me as both town and scum so how is it AI?
I see something scummy, i point it out. That's it. What's so confusing about it?
Are you incapable of comprehending that other people see things differently from you? You are acting on the pretense that everything that's different from your view is weird or scummy.

I don’t read a difference of opinion as scummy but yeah, your read on me makes 0 sense and I don’t understand the other ones either. I don’t really see much persuasive reasoning behind any of your reads. You said Penguin slipped or something I think and that isn’t how I read it. If anything, it’s you who have been making assumptions that don’t really make a helluva lot of sense to me and sounding extremely confident on those takes.

[N.Y. M]

Alright let me dumb it down for you.
After flipping an easy miselim, you will be coming back to me because i'm another easy miselim you won't get blamed for. That's 2 free flips;
So why would i, in my right mind, not attack you despite most of your posts being scummy?

How are my posts even remotely scummy? How are Deas’ posts scummy?

Yeah I totally do not get why you’re “attacking” me. Why are you then not taking issue with Frogs or any of the other Passenger voters? Why are you focused on me?

Also, I’m going to very respectfully request you in the future avoid such language as “dumb it down” for me. You’re welcome to wrongly sr me but I won’t be tolerating insults.

[N.Y. M]

Sorry, i admit it was uncalled for; I got kinda annoyed by you belittling me and degrading my intelligence. I'll just post coherently and with as least dubious sentences as possible.
Deas read is mainly because he has been sitting on the sidelines. He provides content, but doesn't really have any reads that are his.
I will need to quote you to make a read.

I apologize in that case because that was definitely not my intention to either belittle you or insult your intelligence in any way. Ftr, criticizing anyone’s reads/takes/solves etc, isn’t intended that way. If I criticize yours or anyone else’s opinions. that is in no way meant to be anything other than just that. I have been in plenty of games where I’ve seen reasonably intelligent players - and I include yours truly amongst them - wind up having pretty bad takes. I definitely don’t consider myself at all immune from being wrong on anything. Otherwise, I’d probably have a paragon nom at least by now.

[N.Y. M]

{Town}
JohnnyFarrar
Flavia
The Bombay (Hydra of Lukewarm and marcistar)

{Probably Town}
furtiveglance
N.Y. M (Hydra of Nancy Drew 39, Yume and mastina)
Star Power*Roden
DeasVail

{Null}
PenguinPower
Herta
Andresvmb*

{Scumlean}
Bell
Kokabiel
Passenger

{3p}
Frogsterking

Tell me I'm wrong

I think you’re wrong. Frogs claimed informed - informed that one of the roles was misleading and I don’t think that refers to furtive because it just sounds like terrible game design if it did. so I want to hear if anyone received Roden’s message. I did not and so far no one yet has.

Hot take: Koka and Passenger might be aligned if Koka’s actually scum here. Both seem to be tr the other but Koka’s Passenger defense seems a bit over the top. How is she so sure he’s a miselim? She seems extremely confident on all her reads but especially the scum ones.

I think Frogs’ informed probably makes the most sense here if one of Koka, Roden are lying and of the two, only Roden is suspicious of Koka’s claim but not the converse.

Koka hasn’t made any effort revaluating her read on me and is ignoring everything I’ve said and she has only wrongly cased me but in addition to saying Penguin “slipped”, she hasn’t given any other reads, especially Passenger.

Prior to the informed thing I was less likely to think this and more likely to agree with Frogs but now I just don’t know. \_0_/

But I want to wait and see if anyone claims Roden message and how we ought to be interpreting that - one way or the other.

I decided only to partially claim my role today:

#1 I'm informed that at least one player has a role which gets misleading results.

I already claimed it earlier before Roden claimed. I assumed it was referring to an investigative, but I was jumping to conclusions, I doublechecked my role PM just now because I was getting suspicious, and below is the exact wording:

MY ROLE IS INFORMED FYI IN CASE ANYONE MISSED ME CLAIM IT:

INFORMED: AT LEAST ONE ROLE PROVIDES A MISLEADING RESULT

I WONDER IF THAT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH HOW RODEN'S ROLE WORKS...

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

At least one player has a role who

PROVIDES

a misleasing result. I wonder what kind of mod given information Roden may have

PROVIDED

to someone with his

ROLE

via a

PRIVATE MESSAGE

. I wonder if Roden has a

SCUM PR

with the ability to

MISLEAD

as you now know

THERE IS AT LEAST ONE ROLE IN THIS GAME WHICH PROVIDES MISLEADING RESULTS

Frog is now out of posts, and we have not even gotten to the point where we get to see who is the person who confirms roden

He still has a reservoir of 25 left but it’s for 3 days.

Liking Andreas and think he might be right about Bell.

Strongest trs rn are Frogs, Bombay. Furtive definitely seems to be uninformed.

@Luke: No not offended at all.

~Nancy

[N.Y. M]

Day 1 Count VII

Kokabiel (4) - Roden, Bell, DeasVail, PenguinPower
Passenger (4) - Andresvmb, Frogsterking, N.Y. M, furtiveglance
Roden (1) - Flavia
The Bombay (1) - Kokabiel
PenguinPower (1) - JohnnyFarrar
Frogsterking (1) - Passenger

Not Voting

- The Bombay, Herta

Notes

• My mod ISO is here.
  
• The Bombay and Herta are V/LA until Monday.
  
• If I missed any other V/LAs, let me know.
  
• With 14 remaining, it takes 8 to form a majority.

The

Day

concludes in (expired on 2022-11-16 17:00:00).

Kokabiel is an

Advocate

!

@mod what does this mean exactly?

Advocate is a flavoured term for Moonlight Dancer.

Roden is an

Advocate

!

@mod is Kookaburra confirmed not to be the Dictator because of your announcement that they're an Advocate?

Their alignment is not confirmed by my announcement. Nothing is confirmed by them being an Advocate except that they have Advocate in their role or are one.

I decided only to partially claim my role today:

#1 I'm informed that at least one player has a role which gets misleading results.

I already claimed it earlier before Roden claimed. I assumed it was referring to an investigative, but I was jumping to conclusions, I doublechecked my role PM just now because I was getting suspicious, and below is the exact wording:

MY ROLE IS INFORMED FYI IN CASE ANYONE MISSED ME CLAIM IT:

INFORMED: AT LEAST ONE ROLE PROVIDES A MISLEADING RESULT

I WONDER IF THAT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH HOW RODEN'S ROLE WORKS...

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

At least one player has a role who

PROVIDES

a misleasing result. I wonder what kind of mod given information Roden may have

PROVIDED

to someone with his

ROLE

via a

PRIVATE MESSAGE

. I wonder if Roden has a

SCUM PR

with the ability to

MISLEAD

as you now know

THERE IS AT LEAST ONE ROLE IN THIS GAME WHICH PROVIDES MISLEADING RESULTS

Nancy the Dictator stuff doesn't move the needle for you at all?

Frogs was was wrongly accused of beng informed in Masque for something similar. Why should that change my read? Why does 3p!Frogs claim informed and an extremely specific informed at that and it ironically seems to match up with some of the things Roden has been saying?

~Nancy

[N.Y. M]

Roden. Post who you sent it to.
I doubt RH made an error and forgot to send it.

Based on activity the only one who didnt confirm Roden is Flavia.
The alternative is Penguin going Vla without bothering to answer

Bell
Bombay
DV
Furtive
Johnny
Frog
Herta

This was his townreads, so I think it’s unlikely he sent it to either of them.

@Mod, did Roden send a message to ANYONE?

It sounds like he’s claiming some day version of friendly neighbour.

Also

@mod can you prod Flavia?

@Bell, it’s possible but it’s more likely he didn’t send it. Mod needs to clarify this asap.

~Nancy

[N.Y. M]

@Mod, did Roden send a message to ANYONE?

It sounds like he’s claiming some day version of friendly neighbour.

Also

@mod can you prod Flavia?

@Bell, it’s possible but it’s more likely he didn’t send it. Mod needs to clarify this asap.

~Nancy

In what game ever has a mod been able to just... publicly confirm that someone used their PR? lol

Right, I guess not, it’s just in Masque I requested a password change and RH changed it the mod pt but forgot to inform me of it and if it weren’t for Datisi (his co-mod) it would have taken even longer but since RH just checked in and posted that he did in fact prod Flavia, it’s extremely unlikely that Roden sent a message that wasn’t delivered.

Had Roden claimed first who he sent it to - if he did in fact send it - we’d know at least that much because everyone else has posted and I don’t see why based off of his reads, he would message either Penguin or Flavia.

I don’t know why Roden claims he sent a message though and we have no confirmation but why wouldn’t he have straight up mentioned the player he did send it to?

I have a theory, but it is best to just let Roden answer atp.

I hope we find out one way or another and soon.

~Nancy

[N.Y. M]

Whoa! mind blown.

I decided only to partially claim my role today:

#1 I'm informed that at least one player has a role which gets misleading results.

I already claimed it earlier before Roden claimed. I assumed it was referring to an investigative, but I was jumping to conclusions, I doublechecked my role PM just now because I was getting suspicious, and below is the exact wording:

MY ROLE IS INFORMED FYI IN CASE ANYONE MISSED ME CLAIM IT:

INFORMED: AT LEAST ONE ROLE PROVIDES A MISLEADING RESULT

I WONDER IF THAT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH HOW RODEN'S ROLE WORKS...

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

At least one player has a role who

PROVIDES

a misleasing result. I wonder what kind of mod given information Roden may have

PROVIDED

to someone with his

ROLE

via a

PRIVATE MESSAGE

. I wonder if Roden has a

SCUM PR

with the ability to

MISLEAD

as you now know

THERE IS AT LEAST ONE ROLE IN THIS GAME WHICH PROVIDES MISLEADING RESULTS

Fairly certain that Frog is the Government though because this post literally can't be true.

1) This set up is confirmed to not be bastard. Misleading results are considered bastard, especially mod-confirmed results.

2) Friendly Neighbor isn't a result, it's mod-confirmed info.

3) Frog claims to be using the exact wording of his role. It is explicitly against the rules to use exact wording from your role PM, yet the mod hasn't intervened.

Also I have a theory that Koka's role also reveals their alignment to the Government. However, I think that there's a good chance they're actually a Traitor, and that their Advocate reveal also tells the main scum team that they're a Traitor. Which is why I asked Nancy what kind of roles could possibly want to get eliminated; if Koka is a Traitor, they might be trying to look scummy in order to sacrifice themself for a scum buddy who got run up AKA Passenger.

I’m not the best person to consult on mech but @Frogs, why didn’t you claim you received Roden’s message?

@mod, VC please.

~Nancy

[N.Y. M]

The setup does not meet

Normal Guidelines

but has no

Bastard

elements.

@Koka can you message anyone?

quote="In post 574, Frogsterking"]

MY ROLE IS INFORMED FYI IN CASE ANYONE MISSED ME CLAIM IT:

INFORMED: AT LEAST ONE ROLE PROVIDES A MISLEADING RESULT

I WONDER IF THAT HAS ANYTHING TO WITH HOW RODEN'S ROLE WORKS...

[/quote]

@mod would this qualify as bastard?

~Nancy

[N.Y. M]

I don't really think that's a fair question to ask of the mod

(@nancy)

Alright then you and furtive can tell me if what Frogs claimed qualifies as bastard or not? I’m not good at mech, so anyone who is, tell me.

Luke should know. I’ll probably sheep Bombay on this.

~Nancy

[N.Y. M]

on that note I could see an argument for eliminating frog today

I'm fine with being eliminated today in order to confirm Roden scum.

Like I've said, my team solve is Roden/Passenger/Bell. I null read Johnny and Flavia and I townread everyone else.

My reads for Government have changed since last posting, and I now believe Dease is Government for my first choice and Penguin is government for my second choice.

Deas? Why him?

I do think Roden targeting you is really suss. If I’m some variant of FN, I don’t message a player who’s sr me. I message someone who is strongly tr and who will also confirm me but yeah, the resistance to the Passenger wagon is really strong.

@furtive, I didn’t ask that, I asked if what Frogs’ claimed would qualify as bastard or not. My gut says Frogs’ town > Roden.

~Nancy

[N.Y. M]

MY ROLE IS INFORMED FYI IN CASE ANYONE MISSED ME CLAIM IT:

INFORMED: AT LEAST ONE ROLE PROVIDES A MISLEADING RESULT

I WONDER IF THAT HAS ANYTHING TO WITH HOW RODEN'S ROLE WORKS...

@mod would this qualify as bastard?

To my knowledge, it technically wouldn't.

Ty, aren’t you all glad I asked this question?

VOTE: Roden

[N.Y. M]

Meh, I thought the silence from Roden after they claimed to have messaged someone was a bit dodgy. And we do get info either way.

VOTE: Roden

That too but mod - who you just scolded me for asking - just confirmed that Roden is bssing us, you’re welcome.

~Nancy

[N.Y. M]

Why would Roden makes that up tho

Because he didn’t message anyone. Mod just confirmed that Frogs is on the level with that claim. It’s not “bastard”, therefore there’s no reason to doubt it.

And he took until today to do it. I have had a strong tr on Frogs since the getgo and mod confirmed his claim isn’t bastard.

Alternate question, why would Frogs lie?

~Nancy

[N.Y. M]

Nancy did you really just unironically ask why scum would lie about a role interaction that would confirm them as scum

MY ROLE IS INFORMED FYI IN CASE ANYONE MISSED ME CLAIM IT:

INFORMED: AT LEAST ONE ROLE PROVIDES A MISLEADING RESULT

I WONDER IF THAT HAS ANYTHING TO WITH HOW RODEN'S ROLE WORKS...

@mod would this qualify as bastard?

To my knowledge, it technically wouldn't.

Ty, aren’t you all glad I asked this question?

VOTE: Roden

[N.Y. M]

I just want to clarify:

Mod has confirmed my claim isn't bastard and therefore is in compliance with the setup.

As far as we know, there is no reason to believe that Roden has the role which provides misleading results, because Roden lied about the ability to mod confirm himself via private message. We currently don't know what effect the activation of Roden's ability actually had, though I think we can expect it doesn't require Roden to be alive once it's activated, or he wouldn't have locked himself into a 1v1 claim with me.

For all we know, Herta's theory about my role referring to furtive-who claimed miller-is correct. In fact that's currently my top guess for what my role was referring to.

I suppose that’s possible. In Pokemon Battles, I was informed of a gf being in the setup.

~Nancy

Absolutely baffled that I'm receiving votes right now. Did y'all forget that Koka flubbed their role claim? Did y'all not notice that Frog accused me of trying to dismantle the Passenger wagon before proceeding to dismantle the wagon himself? Or that he's accusing me of trying to sacrifice myself for Passenger when I just accused Koka of doing exactly that??

Don't really know how misleading information is somehow not considered bastard but I can't exactly fight the mod on that.

One of you or Frogs obviously has to be lying about the message thing. Koka didn’t claim to send anyone an unconfirmed message.

Nancy did you really just unironically ask why scum would lie about a role interaction that would confirm them as scum

I also really hated this question when you know exactly what I asked, so why even post that?

~Nancy

[N.Y. M]

UNVOTE:

[N.Y. M]

Frogsterking has requested replacement.

Replacing Frogsterking

:/

I unvoted because I’m not sure Frogs isn’t stubborn enough to have gotten Roden’s message and decided he was scum and not acknowledge it, so if replacement says the same exact thing, then Idk.

From what I understand from both of the claims is that Koka’s role helps scum but hurts the government but Roden’s helps town?

@Deas, I think my reasoning was pretty straightforward? Roden had said that Frogs’ claim was false due to it being bastard but then the mod confirmed that it wasn’t.

Anyway, wait for replacement to clarify. If all of my other trs minus Frogs’ think irrespective of what Koka is, it helps town, I could put my vote back there. Koka doesn’t really sound scummy to me but it’s possible but her role could be antitown from her explanation. It’s also possible she could be town with a negative utility role that is nevertheless advantageous to scum. I’m bad at mech so if my trs think that’s the best vote, I’ll go along with it. I still think Frogs’ is town here but Roden would know how stubborn Frogs is but his role if true sounds protown if I understand it correctly?

UNVOTE: Frogster
I think that Kokabiel’s emotion is genuine but I also don’t think that’s town indicative.

First off, don’t you think we should wait for a replacement? And secondly, even if you think this. it’s pretty damn clear he threw himself on a sword for Koka, who if you don’t tr would make more sense as a vote from your perspective?

Iow, if you sr both Frogs and Koka who’s role seems to be anti-government and proscum irrespective of her allignment, your vote on Ftogs, especially when that slot is being replaced doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me. I strongly still think that Frogs’ play doesn’t make a whole lot of sense as groupscum and considering Koka’s role seems to be anti-government, Frogs is still probably town but I ideally want to see what replacement does because I do think it’s possible that Frogs could have gotten Roden’s message and because of his extremely strong conviction that Roden is scum denied receiving it. If Koka flips town, then Frogs could possibly be right about Roden, idk \_0_/

I do think regardless of the situation with Koka that you voting Frogs prior to replacement looks kind of bad unless you tr Koka or don’t think her role isn’t proscum?

I really haven’t liked many of your takes in this game so far.

~Nancy

[N.Y. M]

Frogsterking has requested replacement.

Replacing Frogsterking

:/

I unvoted because I’m not sure Frogs isn’t stubborn enough to have gotten Roden’s message and decided he was scum and not acknowledge it, so if replacement says the same exact thing, then Idk.

From what I understand from both of the claims is that Koka’s role helps scum but hurts the government but Roden’s helps town?

@Deas, I think my reasoning was pretty straightforward? Roden had said that Frogs’ claim was false due to it being bastard but then the mod confirmed that it wasn’t.

Anyway, wait for replacement to clarify. If all of my other trs minus Frogs’ think irrespective of what Koka is, it helps town, I could put my vote back there. Koka doesn’t really sound scummy to me but it’s possible but her role could be antitown from her explanation. It’s also possible she could be town with a negative utility role that is nevertheless advantageous to scum. I’m bad at mech so if my trs think that’s the best vote, I’ll go along with it. I still think Frogs’ is town here but Roden would know how stubborn Frogs is but his role if true sounds protown if I understand it correctly?

UNVOTE: Frogster
I think that Kokabiel’s emotion is genuine but I also don’t think that’s town indicative.

First off, don’t you think we should wait for a replacement? And secondly, even if you think this. it’s pretty damn clear he threw himself on a sword for Koka, who if you don’t tr would make more sense as a vote from your perspective?

Iow, if you sr both Frogs and Koka who’s role seems to be anti-government and proscum irrespective of her allignment, your vote on Ftogs, especially when that slot is being replaced doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me. I strongly still think that Frogs’ play doesn’t make a whole lot of sense as groupscum and considering Koka’s role seems to be anti-government, Frogs is still probably town but I ideally want to see what replacement does because I do think it’s possible that Frogs could have gotten Roden’s message and because of his extremely strong conviction that Roden is scum denied receiving it. If Koka flips town, then Frogs could possibly be right about Roden, idk \_0_/

I do think regardless of the situation with Koka that you voting Frogs prior to replacement looks kind of bad unless you tr Koka or don’t think her role isn’t proscum?

I really haven’t liked many of your takes in this game so far.

~Nancy

I shouldn’t read games when I’m not fully awake. Just realized Passenger UNvoted Frogs here.

[N.Y. M]

Morning Tweet replaces Frogsterking. Please welcome her!

Hey!

Can you confirm if you received a mod pm about Roden?

Tweetie would 100% tell the truth about that if she’s town and I strongly believe that slot is.

~Nancy

[N.Y. M]

How does the post cap work with replacements. Does it refresh?

Sorry about accidentally locking the thread. I forgot that autolock was still on.

In response to this question, I'm going to do something different from what I remembered happening in Invictus Redux, and give a refresh of the reserve posts in addition to refreshing their post cap.

@mod can you reset the timer and update the VC?

[N.Y. M]

I was really hoping Tweetie would have said something about that message by now. The suspense is killing me.






Anyway, I’m thonking Bell is probably town now, he’s usually a lot more awkward and wooden as scum.

~Nancy

[N.Y. M]

I just finished modding a game with Tweetie!scum and she sounds very different here. If Tweetie/Frogs is 3p why are they defending Koka? if they believe Koka to be scum? Why does 3p!Tweetie/Frogs do that?

Why did Roden send the message to Frogs as opposed to someone he tr who didn’t sr him? I trust Luke but I honestly don’t know what to make of any of this.

Furthermore, why does 3p!Frogs replace out to save groupscum!Koka?

None of this is making any sense at all to me.

What am I not getting?

~Nancy

[N.Y. M]

I'd like to hear mastina on this.

Sorry, I have no idea where she wants me to vote today.

Day 1 Count X

Passenger (1) - Andresvmb

Not Voting

- furtiveglance, Passenger, N.Y. M

The

Day

concludes in (expired on 2022-11-18 07:50:00).

[/mech][/mech]

So uh....

@Andres
@furtive
@passenger
@NYM

we are down to 6 hours.

Please put your vote on one of them

VOTE: Koka

I’ll trust in Luke.

e-1

~Nancy

[N.Y. M]

MT is almost certainly 3p here. She feels very different to Large Normal 241 and I don’t like the way she’s defending Roden. I also agree with Bombay’s case on how it’s odd that she and Frogster are approaching the game from the same place.

Tweetie was groupscum in that game, that’s the one I backup modded.

Mastina’s just been really exhausted, she will try her best to weigh in before deadline but no guarantees.

~Nancy

[N.Y. M]

I don't think Kokabiel was the right choice really, Roden seemed to be in the middle of 2 1v1s but I wasn't around to say that so my bad.

ngl, 933 read to me like post hammer scum claim, so I will not be accepting your apology at this time lol

It’s definitely a strange reaction, considering how upset and angry she had been acting prior to that.

~Nancy