Community

[Frogsterking]

@Nancy

be careful!

Flavor Leaf tricked me with a tactic like this once before.

Roden is making himself obvious for a reason; scum don't play the way Roden is doing unless they are big gamblers (which Roden isn't) or their team is coming under way too much pressure. Roden doesn't need to character assassinate me or bait me into wasting posts

unless

he needs to try and save Passenger by dissolving our Townblock we are building on him:

Notice how Roden is also trying to put the moves on Bombay (335,340, 350) and trick furtive into changing wagons (420, 427). Roden is smart and wants you and I to get distracted and angry and switch our votes onto him so that the Passenger wagon decreases in size. Once there are less Town voting Passenger then it will be easier for scum to push the Kookaburra wagon through EoD.

Specifically, I think furtive is correct in this analysis and this is the primary obstacle Roden is attempting to address with his play:

Why would Koka be cleared from a red Passenger flip?

The Passenger wagon is composed of 3 town, whereas Bell and PenguinPower are both potential scum on Kokabiel

If you start trying to chasing Roden too early then it will dissolve our Townblock we're currently building on Passenger. We want the Passenger wagon to go through today to expose the players trying to push Kookaburra through instead (I think specifically Bell and Roden are trying to take advantage of Penguin and Dease' votes on Kookaburra.)

I think it's imperative that you:

1) revote Passenger
2) concentrate your slots remaining posts (which you still have many) into persuading Dease, Penguin, Herta and Bombay into voting Passenger instead of Roden or especially Kookaburra.

@all

The Kookaburra doesn't even make sense because

Kookaburra can't be the Dictator

. You are all assuming that Kookaburra is a scum sided Moonlight Dancer when it's more likely they are a townsided Moonlight Dancer who is pissed at you because

you are voting Kookaburra for literally no reason. They are not that scummy and they can't be Dictator.

[N.Y. M]

VOTE: Passenger

So @Frogs, your theory then is Roden is being deliberately scummy to take the fall for Passenger?

I also think that locktowning Bombay this early reads like possible tmi to me because while I do think Bombay is very likely town, a locktown read this early seems kind of suss.

If someone said they hard tr me, I wouldn’t be suspicious but if they actually lock townread me on d1 ot before a single flip, I’d definitely be thinking tmi, unless they have meta locktowning slots like Mastina does of course.

So what’s the actual downside in limming Roden before Passenger? Do you think Passenger has a better role or something? I think both are scummy and agree that Koka is probably a bad wagon.

Standard version
A Moonlight Dancer can tell the moderator "Dance in the Moonlight" or something that is clear that they are activating their Moonlight Dancer ability. The moderator will immediately post a message that confirms that player as a Moonlight Dancer. Typically, a Moonlight Dancer can have this happen once every phase.

Variations
A Moonlight Dancer may be able to only dance once. Alternatively, the message can merely hint at them being a Moonlight Dancer.

Another variation of Moonlight Dancer is a passive role. A passive Moonlight Dancer is confirmed as such at the beginning of the game, or at some other predetermined time in the game.

A Moonlight Dancer is an Innocent Child with no meaningful information in their reveal.

Use & Balance
Moonlight Dancer is the ultimate confirmable role... Moonlight Dancer has no power beyond being trivially confirmable.

Moonlight Dancers are Named roles that can confirm that they are Named.

I think Koka is > likely a mod confirmed IC here based on this. I don’t know how much experience Koka has playing mafia but I used to play similarly when I was new to the game, had 30+ games all town but I got sr and miselimed a lot back then and even got the nickname “wolf magnet” because scum would jump on me like clockwork in pretty much every game I was in.

[Frogsterking]

I mean okay fine, let's try and figure out what Penguin and Dease are thinking.

putting self in Penguin/Dease shoes

A Moonlight Dancer is a player who can have the fact that they are a Moonlight Dancer mod-confirmed.

A Moonlight Dancer may be of any alignment

Advocate
A person who publicly supports or recommends a particular cause or policy.
"he was an untiring advocate of economic reform"

Hello everyone! I am here, ready to be a shining light against the delegation!

VOTE: DeasVail

JUST the delegation?

Setup

General Information

• This is a Large Theme themed around a group of militants and a government operative.
  
• The
  Residents
  are the uninformed majority and the
  Delegation
  is the informed minority.
  
• There is a
  Government
  operative who is
  Antisocial
  . If they win, all other players will lose.
  
• The setup does not meet
  Normal Guidelines
  but has no
  Bastard
  elements.
  
• Multitasking
  and
  Daytalk
  is enabled by default.

Probably this?

You guys think the Advocate thing is a red herring and Kookaburra can be or is likely to be the Dictator or w.e?

Okay fine I was wrong to dismiss your read about Kookaburra and claim they are not able to be the Dictator.

I

can

see it AND they sure as hell aren't groupscum. The groupscum are at least Passenger/Roden if not Bell as well. I also think Flavia is worth a look

later

to go for a Dictator hit.

The Townblock is on Passenger (Frog/furtive/andres/ NYM) and the Kookaburra wagon is split between groupscum (Roden/Bell) and Town (Dease/Penguin.)

It makes more sense to me now why you two insist on voting Kookaburra, but I still don't think it's a bright idea. I think Kookaburra is 1% groupscum, 15% dictator and ~84% angry Townslot with a shitty role. Maybe my read is off or w.e and Kookaburra is more likely to be the Dictator, w.e, they still have a decent chance to be an angry Resident with a poop role getting piled on D1.

The priority in these games is usually to hit groupscum first and I'm telling you again that Kookaburra is not an informed minority; if you're lucky they are the Dictator, and if they are the Dictator you can be sure they are screwed this game. Please do not lose sight of the Townblock piling onto Passenger.

[furtiveglance]

1) What is a Dictator?
2) Kokabiel is not an Innocent Child.

[N.Y. M]

Day 1 Count VII

Kokabiel (4) - Roden, Bell, DeasVail, PenguinPower
Passenger (4) - Andresvmb, Frogsterking, N.Y. M, furtiveglance
Roden (1) - Flavia
The Bombay (1) - Kokabiel
PenguinPower (1) - JohnnyFarrar
Frogsterking (1) - Passenger

Not Voting

- The Bombay, Herta

Notes

• My mod ISO is here.
  
• The Bombay and Herta are V/LA until Monday.
  
• If I missed any other V/LAs, let me know.
  
• With 14 remaining, it takes 8 to form a majority.

The

Day

concludes in (expired on 2022-11-16 17:00:00).

I can do this much. I wouldn’t want to be voting any wagon Roden is on and that pretty much spews Koka town/unaligned for me because I very much - even if it weren’t for the claim - can’t see it as a bus. Koka is probably town, both due to claim and Roden voting her.

But yeah, definitely doesn’t seem to be aligned with anyone but I strongly lean pissed off town.

~Nancy

[Kokabiel]

Yeah this is no good. I can't clear myself and i think Passenger is town, so that's 2 miselims.
I suppose it's time to come out with my modifier.
When i get modconfirmed the government receives a notification that the delegation will find out their identity during the next night phase(N2 in this case) unless i get killed.
I didn't say anything so i could watch the votes on me and their reasonings and Catguin looked like he had an eureka moment right after i got Modconfirmed. And AFTER that he asked what the hell a moonlight dancer is.

[Kokabiel]

Uh huh.

Anyway, once Koka is done flaking and answers my question, there's something I'd like to do. So please don't rush the vote before then.

I already stated who i think scum is, or did you mean another question?

[Kokabiel]

Oh yeah there was a change in scum rankings
Penguin - government
N.Y.M & Flavia - my scum bets
Deas and Johnny - alternative scum

N.Y.M was defensive of me putting them in the "solve". Then they got angry and called me scum because i'm using the vulnerability the hydra mech has. That's fine, it's not like people have their own opinions on hydras.
I gave them a list of topics they can explore which they promptly ignore because I dunno; It's like they are done milking me and think they have done enough content-wise

[Roden]

VOTE: Roden

The interactions between Frogs and Roden look exactly like their interactions in Elected Decisions. Passenger coulf be scum buy Roden feels really scummy to me.

Even Mastina has come around to Frogs’ town, so no I don’t seriously believe you genuinely think Frogs is scum here

~Nancy

That's because I don't and literally never said I did.

[Frogsterking]

@mod

is Kookaburra confirmed not to be the Dictator because of your announcement that they're an Advocate?

1) What is a Dictator?
2) Kokabiel is not an Innocent Child.

1) Dictator is the name of the Third Party in this game, and we don't know what their abilitie(s) are yet (AFAIK), all we know is that they can't win together with the scum (called Delegates.) I think Kookaburra technically could be the Dictator? Or is that not possible? Maybe we should just ask (asked at the top of this post.

2) True

So @Frogs, your theory then is Roden is being deliberately scummy to take the fall for Passenger?

I also think that locktowning Bombay this early reads like possible tmi to me because while I do think Bombay is very likely town, a locktown read this early seems kind of suss.

If someone said they hard tr me, I wouldn’t be suspicious but if they actually lock townread me on d1 ot before a single flip, I’d definitely be thinking tmi, unless they have meta locktowning slots like Mastina does of course.

So what’s the actual downside in limming Roden before Passenger? Do you think Passenger has a better role or something? I think both are scummy and agree that Koka is probably a bad wagon.

Yeah, Roden TRs are slimy as shit and I think Roden is trying to tilt us and wants us to split the votes between Passenger and himself so the Kookaburra wagon can go through.

Roden's Bombay pocket attempt is overt but his other TRs suck too. On me is obvious shade:

Early posts suggest Frog is town due to his ego.

And on Johnny it's just completely inexplicable:

scum don't need to pretend to be scumhunting this game

Huh? What do you know that I dont

Ok Johnny is town lol.

__

So what’s the actual downside in limming Roden before Passenger? Do you think Passenger has a better role or something? I think both are scummy and agree that Koka is probably a bad wagon.

Yeah I think we are lucky that furtive and andres are paying attention and willing to wagon Passenger. I don't think we can guarantee that we will get a big wagon going on Roden today, but I think Passenger will flip scum and then I think that will expose the Kookaburra wagon for what it is.

I think Passenger is more likely to be a scum PR than Roden because:

1) he played a lot more lamisty at the start with the fake Town telling/scumhunting and trying to be analytical and stuff

2) Roden is playing very provocative toward my slot and basically just going for pockets on the people he thinks he can get like marci and Luke

Yeah this is no good. I can't clear myself and i think Passenger is town, so that's 2 miselims.
I suppose it's time to come out with my modifier.
When i get modconfirmed the government receives a notification that the delegation will find out their identity during the next night phase(N2 in this case) unless i get killed.
I didn't say anything so i could watch the votes on me and their reasonings and Catguin looked like he had an eureka moment right after i got Modconfirmed. And AFTER that he asked what the hell a moonlight dancer is.

My friend, please, Passenger is not all that lol. I am like very loud and I want you to live because I don't trust two of the people on your wagon (Roden and Bell.) I saw your most recent post and I don't have buckets overflowing with trust for Johnny or Flavia either. I think NYM and Dease are solid. I'm hoping Dease will change his mind about you and vote Passenger instead. I don't...really understand why Dease is voting you. Please help me help you and vote Passenger, I think you will be pleasantly surprised by their flip.

[N.Y. M]

Oh yeah there was a change in scum rankings
Penguin - government
N.Y.M & Flavia - my scum bets
Deas and Johnny - alternative scum

N.Y.M was defensive of me putting them in the "solve". Then they got angry and called me scum because i'm using the vulnerability the hydra mech has. That's fine, it's not like people have their own opinions on hydras.
I gave them a list of topics they can explore which they promptly ignore because I dunno; It's like they are done milking me and think they have done enough content-wise

Okay then, I’m obviously not going to take your reads seriously in that case.

And when exactly did I get “angry”? I haven’t got angry even once in this game. Your solve isn’t reliable because I know you’re wrong on me but hey you do you, I think you’re wrong on Deas as well and I don’t see why Penguin is scum here. Even if you didn’t have such bad reads, I doubt I would listen to you over players who have meta on having good reads and my gut.

[Roden]

Guess now's the best time to explain that I actually have another reason to think Koka is scum, it should put some things in perspective. One moment please.

[Kokabiel]

Laughing, being dismissive and degrading other people's reads is a classic scum tactic.

@Frog: Assume i can be any alignment.

[N.Y. M]

Laughing, being dismissive and degrading other people's reads is a classic scum tactic.

@Frog: Assume i can be any alignment.

You really want me to vote you here is what it looks like. It’s weird that you continue trying to bait me.

I think you’re for some reason trying super hard to get yourself limmed because your play here makes 0 sense otherwise.

If I were actually voting you, than it would actually make sense but since I’m not it seriously hella weird.

[Roden]

Nancy, what kind of roles do you think

try

to get themselves voted out? Besides Jester, I mean.

[Kokabiel]

I seriously don't understand your logic. Why does townreading me mean i should townread you? There are a number of reasons why you would townread me as both town and scum so how is it AI?
I see something scummy, i point it out. That's it. What's so confusing about it?
Are you incapable of comprehending that other people see things differently from you? You are acting on the pretense that everything that's different from your view is weird or scummy.

[Kokabiel]

Nancy, what kind of roles do you think

try

to get themselves voted out? Besides Jester, I mean.

I'd rather get shot by a vigi than be voted out tbph

[N.Y. M]

Nancy, what kind of roles do you think

try

to get themselves voted out? Besides Jester, I mean.

Idk maybe a venge? I’m starting to wonder now if Frogs is wrong on them because their play here is so bizarre. What makes absolutely no sense to me is why with so many votes on them, they’re both trying to provoke me and hard defend Passenger, which they have yet to explain.

Anyway, if I did wrongly jump the gun on you, explain your Koka read to me, because their reaction to me, does not at all resemble pissed off town, so something’s not adding up with that.

[N.Y. M]

I seriously don't understand your logic. Why does townreading me mean i should townread you? There are a number of reasons why you would townread me as both town and scum so how is it AI?
I see something scummy, i point it out. That's it. What's so confusing about it?
Are you incapable of comprehending that other people see things differently from you? You are acting on the pretense that everything that's different from your view is weird or scummy.

I don’t read a difference of opinion as scummy but yeah, your read on me makes 0 sense and I don’t understand the other ones either. I don’t really see much persuasive reasoning behind any of your reads. You said Penguin slipped or something I think and that isn’t how I read it. If anything, it’s you who have been making assumptions that don’t really make a helluva lot of sense to me and sounding extremely confident on those takes.

[Kokabiel]

Alright let me dumb it down for you.
After flipping an easy miselim, you will be coming back to me because i'm another easy miselim you won't get blamed for. That's 2 free flips;
So why would i, in my right mind, not attack you despite most of your posts being scummy?

[furtiveglance]

Frog, where is the info that Dictator is the 3p? All I see is that there is a government operative who is antisocial.

[N.Y. M]

Alright let me dumb it down for you.
After flipping an easy miselim, you will be coming back to me because i'm another easy miselim you won't get blamed for. That's 2 free flips;
So why would i, in my right mind, not attack you despite most of your posts being scummy?

How are my posts even remotely scummy? How are Deas’ posts scummy?

Yeah I totally do not get why you’re “attacking” me. Why are you then not taking issue with Frogs or any of the other Passenger voters? Why are you focused on me?

Also, I’m going to very respectfully request you in the future avoid such language as “dumb it down” for me. You’re welcome to wrongly sr me but I won’t be tolerating insults.

[Kokabiel]

Sorry, i admit it was uncalled for; I got kinda annoyed by you belittling me and degrading my intelligence. I'll just post coherently and with as least dubious sentences as possible.
Deas read is mainly because he has been sitting on the sidelines. He provides content, but doesn't really have any reads that are his.
I will need to quote you to make a read.

[N.Y. M]

Sorry, i admit it was uncalled for; I got kinda annoyed by you belittling me and degrading my intelligence. I'll just post coherently and with as least dubious sentences as possible.
Deas read is mainly because he has been sitting on the sidelines. He provides content, but doesn't really have any reads that are his.
I will need to quote you to make a read.

I apologize in that case because that was definitely not my intention to either belittle you or insult your intelligence in any way. Ftr, criticizing anyone’s reads/takes/solves etc, isn’t intended that way. If I criticize yours or anyone else’s opinions. that is in no way meant to be anything other than just that. I have been in plenty of games where I’ve seen reasonably intelligent players - and I include yours truly amongst them - wind up having pretty bad takes. I definitely don’t consider myself at all immune from being wrong on anything. Otherwise, I’d probably have a paragon nom at least by now.

[Frogsterking]

Nancy, what kind of roles do you think

try

to get themselves voted out? Besides Jester, I mean.

*raises hand*

A named-Resident with a role that can't really do anything who is mad at the players voting them and wants to flip to reveal their alignment and show everyone they were wrong.

Also, a player who is genuinely trying to scumhunt rather than tactically picking and choosing who they pretend to Townread like your slot is doing.

@Nancy

They are like me in Lost or w.e when I was making everyone want to vote me, the anger is strong in them and they are based and not thinking through who they piss off. Kookaburra only cares about finding and killing scum. They're almost certainly a Resident IMO. If they are pissing you off then just don't talk to them. You and Kookaburra are clashing a little bit IMO, you're both fiery. I can understand what they're saying I think:

they think you're trying to make them look bad with posts like #460 and you aren't voting them because you don't want to look bad after they flip (which they know will be Town.) They are pocketed by Passenger for some reason and think you are trying to line up miselims on them.

PEdit:

Yeah I feel like I understand their thought process in #469 though I don't agree with it. They are on hella tilt right now but trying to solve. They are aggroing you instead of other Passenger voters because they didn't like how you talked to them in #460. They are reading a scum motivation into the way you worded #460. That is just how they look for scum. They think you made this tell here: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... 8.2B1.0.29

The "lol defense."

Also, notice how Roden disappears when you and Kookaburra start fighting. That's a sign IMO you two are TvT.

@Kookaburra

Why do you trust Passenger so much? I think that slot is nothing but bad news for Residents. I'm pretty sure NYM is a Resident and is trying to vote out the Delegates/Government. They wrote #460 because they disagree with your reads not because they are trying to make you look bad. You and Nancy are both fiery so the communication is turning confrontational but I'm pretty sure you're on the same team.

Oh yeah there was a change in scum rankings
Penguin - government
N.Y.M & Flavia - my scum bets
Deas and Johnny - alternative scum

N.Y.M was defensive of me putting them in the "solve". Then they got angry and called me scum because i'm using the vulnerability the hydra mech has. That's fine, it's not like people have their own opinions on hydras.
I gave them a list of topics they can explore which they promptly ignore because I dunno; It's like they are done milking me and think they have done enough content-wise

@Dease

I read Kookaburra's above post as sincere, I don't think they have an agenda. I think the anger is just loud in Kookaburra and they are playing the game in their own way. It's not suspicious.

@Frog: Assume i can be any alignment.

IMO even though I agree it's technically possible, I'm not convinced Kookaburra is the

Dictator

Government agent because their role sucks too much. I think the Government would send an agent with a better ability. I think they are a named-Resident.

@Kookaburra

, did you paraphrase your flavor yet? That might help lend some authenticity that you at least aren't a

Dictator

Government agent.

PEdit:

@furtive

There's a small chance it's in my imagination but I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere. I'm checking now.

I am very wrong, I'm sorry for the confusion.

I thought the Government was the alignment and the actual 3rd party role is called a Dictator and the flavor is that they are trying to take over the Community.

Your interpretation was correct and mine was wrong, the 3rd party is just a Government agent and their alignment is Antisocial. I think it was the flavor combined with the Antisocial alignment which caused me to misremember it as a Dictator.

The government isn't helping much with your troubles, unfortunately. With their own plans on handling the situation, they've enlisted their best agent to ensure everything ends their way.

From the signup queue

There is a Government operative who is Antisocial

From the mod post