![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
Anyone awake right now?
If it's 1:1 with the game, then voting isn't anonymous and is actually revealed once the deadline ends and we see the results.In post 10, Enchant wrote:I only looked information without playing. I have no real knowledge.
Also voting in this game is anonymous.
Also. Who the hell is Enchat
Yeah that's more or less how I felt playing through it, I started enjoying it a lot more once Yuriko showed up and the settings got more customizable.In post 11, JunkoChan wrote:Gets fairly complicated once you get the game rolling, first loops while the game is explaining roles and stuff felt like Button mashing simulador because of how obvious the gnosia we're, it aint a master piece but it's funIn post 9, Roden wrote:Aside from just the Engineer and/or Doctor claiming, does anyone think we should claim characters before EoD? Mainly asking since Sha-Ming exists, which means the Grovel skill likely exists.
PE: Nice, I've been playing as well, mainly just practice runs using the settings the mod is using here. What's your opinion on the game so far?
I think we could character claim without outting too much, at least mine is different from what I expected i think it's fine
I'm human.
NK15, can you confirm that this came from you?In post 56, MariaR wrote:An ability has been activated!
For this dayphase only we will have a standard voting phase and skip freezing phase.
Please vote for who you want to be frozen using vote tolds aka VOTE: Maria bolded votes will not count!
I believe that only character abilities are one shot. "Say You're Human", for instance, is a skill in the game and would be a character-specific ability, and thus would be one shot.In post 64, Elmo TeH AzN wrote:In post 56, MariaR wrote:Please vote for who you want to be frozen using vote tolds aka VOTE: Maria bolded votes will not count!
This is something interesting to note. Sorry Mod I just wanted this to be known.
I don't understand this still as if most abilities are one shot. How would who ever has one be able to clear people?JunkoChan wrote:I'm a human!
it's obviously I'm a human, haven't you looked at me?!?!
Also, you had to state your ability and role when confirming to the mod that you understood your role PM. If you're confused, referring back to that would be helpful.In post 72, Roden wrote:I believe that only character abilities are one shot. "Say You're Human", for instance, is a skill in the game and would be a character-specific ability, and thus would be one shot.In post 64, Elmo TeH AzN wrote:In post 56, MariaR wrote:Please vote for who you want to be frozen using vote tolds aka VOTE: Maria bolded votes will not count!
This is something interesting to note. Sorry Mod I just wanted this to be known.
I don't understand this still as if most abilities are one shot. How would who ever has one be able to clear people?JunkoChan wrote:I'm a human!
it's obviously I'm a human, haven't you looked at me?!?!
"Engineer", on the other hand, is a role both in the game and in this set up that anyone could have rolled since it isn't character-specific, and thus would not be one shot.
Niche detail, but in the game Bug can actually get caught by Say You're Human even though roles can still misdiagnose them as Human. Personally, I see it as a psychological slip in-universe, the Bug knows what they are and ultimately doesn't perceive themself to be Human.In post 73, Marashu wrote:Wanted to say it that way because at the time I didn't know whether or not there's a lie detector (to be fair, I still don't) and wanted to cover for bug/traitor coming up human in case it's an actual lie detector and not just saying you're human. Don't know if it's NK15's actual skill or if it's a bluff, but I lose nothing by going along with that as well.In post 50, shiki wrote:though it was kinda a strange way for marashu to phrase it due to saying town as opposed to humans but ehhh feels fairly interchangeable to me
FakeGod's intro is giving me +traitor vibes.
Wait, really? I assumed skills had to be stated in-thread.In post 75, Not Known 15 wrote:I can confirm that this did not come from me.In post 69, Roden wrote:NK15, can you confirm that this came from you?
Huh, alright, I guess a mix of both makes sense. Mine is in-thread.In post 82, JunkoChan wrote:my ability is activated by DMing the modIn post 79, Roden wrote:Wait, really? I assumed skills had to be stated in-thread.In post 75, Not Known 15 wrote:I can confirm that this did not come from me.In post 69, Roden wrote:NK15, can you confirm that this came from you?
I guess it's obvious that I didn't cause the vote change either. I'll leave it up to whoever activated it to come forward if they wish. I do think it's +crew to use it now though, since Gnosia would want to use it more strategically I think.
Not_Mafia_15In post 90, Enchant wrote:I think NM didn't use ability and just bait reactions.
In post 103, JunkoChan wrote:No wait it makes sense because there's no roleblocker
I would be shocked if character skills could affect night actions and not just affect Day play.In post 106, Enchant wrote:Not really.
I didn't want to claim, because characters could had roleblockers.
If an Engineer or Doctor claim dies during the night, then the other claim is confscum. Unless 3 or more claim a role, then yeah that's dicier. But with your situation, if the claims remain between only you two, the real Engineer won't be killed without Gnosia also taking a loss. Doctor claims also can't be 100% trusted Day 2 onward, even if no one CC's.In post 114, Enchant wrote:I disagree.In post 108, Roden wrote:That said, Doctor (not Guardian Angel) should claim as well
GA can't protect both me and Doctor.
Yes, actually.In post 117, Not Known 15 wrote:That's interesting.In post 116, Roden wrote:Atm though I do believe your claim more than NK15's.
I see Enchant as the most scummy player in this list - independently from the lockscum(for me) claim.
Enchant is trying to be helpful and gives advice on mechanics. At the start of Day 1.
Does this sound like Town Enchant to you?
EBWOPIn post 122, Roden wrote:If you think unhelpful!Enchant = town!Enchant, I'm sorry to inform you that that's just incorrect and you got burned by lack of WIM in a previous game.
Let's say Person X is the Doctor. If we wait for them to claim but it then gets to the point that we need to start seeing some Doctor results, we might ask the Doctor to step forward, maybe three days have gone by at this point. If Gnosia happens to kill the Doctor on Night 1/2/3, no one would know. And the longer that goes on, the greater chance that scum or 3p can safely fake claim with no one to oppose them.In post 136, FakeGod wrote:I think NK15 is more likely to be the real cop, but I wonder if we need to eliminate between the cop claims at all.
Why are people saying roles cannot be confirmed after day 1?
We do have a coroner, after all.
What don't you understand? If Gnosia try to CC a Crewmate who's true claiming Engineer or Doctor, and then that Crewmate ends up dead, we know the other player is fake claiming and is a bad guy. Keep in mind that the Bug can't be NK'd, so anyone who dies at night (and wasn't targeted by an Engineer) is always definitely Human.In post 137, FakeGod wrote:Why? I read your 116 and I still do not understand.In post 108, Roden wrote:That said, Doctor (not Guardian Angel) should claim as well
Do you mean that you're not sure who to believe, or that you don't think either of them are the Engineer?In post 141, narrow parking wrote:this is wildIn post 69, Roden wrote: NK15, can you confirm that this came from you?
there is no middle bloc!In post 126, Ranger wrote:The middle bloc???In post 39, narrow parking wrote:no neutral tier ?
{Roden, JunkoChan, shiki}
{Scoliosis, Jessica Rabbit, Klick, Yume, FakeGod, Autere, Not Known 15}
{Elmo teH AzN, narrow parking}
{Marashu, Enchant}
consider me unconvinced of either of themRanger wrote:I believe it.In post 100, Not Known 15 wrote:I am the Engineer!
I am excited to play this set up, the game actually got me into playing forum mafia.In post 143, Autere wrote:Roden, I'm feeling like a lot of your posts are leading with flavor expertise. I get the impression this is a setup that excites you because of it but I do think your #76 is a bit of a reach. I think FG's behavior is null yet your flavor leanings made it out to be a bigger deal than it was.
This isn't a good argument, the game just started. It's almost impossible for them to have had any real interactions with the player list at the time of claiming.In post 142, Enchant wrote:NK15 on purpose had almost zero of interaction with other people (just vague posts), so it's clearly, he is pawn to be sacrificed to reveal me.
Yes...? I don't disagree. The argument is that NK15 is a pawn with zero interaction, I don't think that makes sense as an accusation when the game just started.In post 148, narrow parking wrote:this might be a worse argument! surely he could have if he didn't do it on his 4th postIn post 147, Roden wrote:This isn't a good argument, the game just started. It's almost impossible for them to have had any real interactions with the player list at the time of claiming.In post 142, Enchant wrote:NK15 on purpose had almost zero of interaction with other people (just vague posts), so it's clearly, he is pawn to be sacrificed to reveal me.
Can you answer this?In post 145, Roden wrote:Do you mean that you're not sure who to believe, or that you don't think either of them are the Engineer?In post 141, narrow parking wrote:this is wildIn post 69, Roden wrote: NK15, can you confirm that this came from you?
there is no middle bloc!In post 126, Ranger wrote:The middle bloc???In post 39, narrow parking wrote:no neutral tier ?
{Roden, JunkoChan, shiki}
{Scoliosis, Jessica Rabbit, Klick, Yume, FakeGod, Autere, Not Known 15}
{Elmo teH AzN, narrow parking}
{Marashu, Enchant}
consider me unconvinced of either of themRanger wrote:I believe it.In post 100, Not Known 15 wrote:I am the Engineer!
That's definitely not supposed to read like the first line break is the same thought process as the second line break. They're two entirely different thoughts responding to two entirely different thoughts in Marashu's post.In post 153, Autere wrote:Your #76 starts with flavor info which then wraps around to FG being 3P because reasons. I only assumed those reasons were because of the flavor context you provided, because you were responding to Marashu that you agreed with them.In post 146, Roden wrote:I am excited to play this set up, the game actually got me into playing forum mafia.In post 143, Autere wrote:Roden, I'm feeling like a lot of your posts are leading with flavor expertise. I get the impression this is a setup that excites you because of it but I do think your #76 is a bit of a reach. I think FG's behavior is null yet your flavor leanings made it out to be a bigger deal than it was.
Can you explain what you mean by 76 being a reach though? The part where I talk about flavor is separate from my read on FG, I don't have any flavor reasons for scum reading them. My vote on them is because they entered the thread worried about the 3p when the Bug shouldn't be much of a concern for us yet.
I figured everything I was saying about the game was relevant since some of the mech interactions aren't straightforwardIn post 159, Autere wrote:I still stand by what I said about your flavor leanings even if I misinterpreted a bit. You were talking about the Bug which is 3P so two in two got put together. Do you think having said flavor knowledge (and sharing it) is beneficial? Bare in mind that any flavor you talk towards me will be tuned out.
Will admit, been a bit tiresome to read as a whole. Don't feel like it's helping me win the mafia game but hey
Obviously the town won't be naive, that isn't my issue here. Claims past D1 just have less and less value due to becoming riskier to trust while also keeping valuable information away from us. This set up can be solved from Engineer and Doctor results alone, I've done that well over a hundred times. Being able to play against and read actual living players and not AI just makes it easier.In post 179, FakeGod wrote:I understand your fears about uncontested late town PR claims, but I don't think the town would be naive enough to give them a free pass.In post 144, Roden wrote:What don't you understand?
I worry that if we follow your plan and have the doctor claim, mafia does not cc and simply just shoots the doc tonight, leaving rest of the power roles vulnerable.
I had that in mind as well but didn't want to say it out loud at the time, like "if you're town then claim this ability" lol. I figure if they claim it on their own then they're a bit more trustworthy than if I give them an incentive to do so. The more time goes by without a claim, the less townie it feels to me.In post 187, shiki wrote:it is likeIn post 88, Roden wrote:But I do think that crew is more likely to use it now, especially after the conversation about tracking FoS/vote intents happened.
hard for me to see the usage being wholly unrelated to my conversation with autere would be a weird coincidence et cetera
(also makes me maybe a little ! towards autere but hard to see how that would have come together as like a PLAN ya know so probably paranoia)
but it feels odd that a town wouldn't just claim it after using it or even ask the thread before doing so ya know
like is there any benefit to not revealing that information if the user is town?
...They wouldn't. The Cop claims aren't TvT. Or at least they shouldn't be, holy shit.In post 198, narrow parking wrote:why would a town player fake a cop claim?In post 197, FakeGod wrote:Why would a town player counterclaim a cop claim?In post 196, narrow parking wrote:why would u ?
Why is Scoliosis center null in your reads?In post 251, Ranger wrote:If I believed your reasons were genuine, I would. I don't, sorry.In post 165, Scoliosis wrote:Can we talk about the differences in our reads lists a little bit?
160 is not a real cop, I've the exact opposite read on it as you and your take feels faked.
{Not Known 15}
--
{Autere}
{JunkoChan, shiki, Jessica Rabbit}
{Roden}
{Scoliosis, Klick, Yume}
{Elmo teH AzN, FakeGod}
{narrow parking}
{Marashu}
--
{Enchant}
What motive does town have in making insincere reads??In post 261, Ranger wrote:Because he's null still.In post 257, Roden wrote:Why is Scoliosis center null in your reads?
I don't believe his takes are sincere; I'm ambivalent if it's scum or insincere-town.
I might be leaning town, but I don't feel engaging Scoliosis on all reads would be productive.
{Not Known 15}
--
{Autere, shiki}
{JunkoChan, Jessica Rabbit, Roden}
{Scoliosis}
{Klick, Yume}
{Elmo teH AzN, FakeGod}
{narrow parking}
{Marashu}
--
{Enchant}
VOTE: ElmoIn post 262, Ranger wrote:Kinda?In post 259, Scoliosis wrote:This feels like a lot of words to say absolutely nothing.
It's explicitly stating an undefined read on Klick (which counts as 'absolutely nothing'), and giving the reasonswhythe read isn't defined.
Try voting Elmo and see what I do.In post 255, Scoliosis wrote:Ranger's sorting doesn't seem very natural and I think Elmo could be placed here for distancing.
I think you should make it clear that everyone needs to do so if your ability is real.In post 285, Not Known 15 wrote:Doesn't matter. Quote my post, and affirm. Now.In post 282, Scoliosis wrote:I don't believe you.In post 279, Not Known 15 wrote:I have used it already...
Heavily agree with this post on principle alone. Looking at motivation behind a decision or choice of words is is the best way to read certain players if they aren't a straight forward read.In post 346, Klick wrote:I feel like people often get caught up in howeasysomething is to fake to the neglect of considering how likely a scum is tochooseto fake something
I think there's a ton of scumhunting potential in figuring out what kind of people players are, how they're likely to make decisions, especially because lots of people have a much narrower range of behaviour than is usually expected when playing Mafia
But like, that's just my opinion, man
Fair point.In post 315, Ranger wrote:You've played with mastina; you should know.In post 267, Roden wrote:What motive does town have in making insincere reads??
She's not alone in forced reasons/faked confidence.
It's a valid tactic especially earlygame for generating a higher volume of valuable content.
VOTE: Elmo TeH AzN
Well, peopleIn post 358, JunkoChan wrote:so why you decided to out this now?In post 357, Not Known 15 wrote:Ok. My ability was activated.... and although it isn't strictly one-shot it is de-facto.
What my ability does is to inform Gnosia about their chances to get caught in a lie...
which means that the Gnosia have the information that my ability is real and the rest of the players has not.
What my ability does NOT do is to actually detect lies. That's probably someone else.
Which means it's mainly a TMI trap.
Can you explain this?In post 394, Not Known 15 wrote:The spelling is not a mistake.In post 389, Jessica Rabbit wrote:Is the YOUR in your post the actual correct spelling because, shouldn’t it be “YOU’RE”?
What exactly did you do?In post 407, FakeGod wrote:Bah.
I was hoping NK15 would be a traitor.
Town and traitor must true-claim to my ability - Bug and groupscum can lie.
EBWOPIn post 429, Roden wrote:I'm struggling to understand NK15's "State Your Human" plan coming from anything other other than a Traitor due to how ineffectively he used it.
VOTE: EngineerIn post 435, Enchant wrote:Well. Everyone reacted, so i can admit.
I am not Engineer.That was fakeclaim.
With only one real claim at this point, I can only guess that he just misplayed his ability.In post 439, FakeGod wrote:Agreed, which is why I asked him to trueclaim his role.In post 429, Roden wrote:I'm struggling to understand NK15's "State Your Human" plan coming from another other than a Traitor with how ineffectively he used it.
My ability only works on town and traitor. Mafia and Bug can lie.
I understand your frustration, I'm annoyed at the fake CC and people just blowing their abilities early and giving us useless information.In post 474, Autere wrote:I'm not asking you all to be brain surgeons but I really am fucking perplexed that the front of discussion has been what it is. The start of this game was NK15 claiming engineer in the most hackneyed way by intentionally misspelling his apparent ability, which he then (unprompted) claims Engineer of all fucking things. This causes Enchant to CC, and my initial thought is that 'ok, so Enchant is likely real because he didn't want to out like a sensible person' but ho ho ho I thought it was supposed to be December but you could've fooled me that it was April with how much fucking jokes have been played. Excuse me for being skeptical about FakeGod's ability when we've already seen what's happened prior. So what else is going on? Meandering discussion that amounts to nothing but setup analysis and flavor wank that istonally daft and boringit's like I'm being educated about Gnosia and if I wanted to do that I would've played the fucking game. Please for the love of god can we get some nuance in here. The thread is bone-dry with surface level takes it makes me want to participate with a coma than this shitshow.
I don't think that's Bug indicative. The fastest route to winning as Bug is to vote out all of the Gnosia ASAP, they only want to scum side if it increases their chances of winning.In post 519, Scoliosis wrote:IMO get shiki first for pointing out tpr tell in a game without daytalk. 464
Explanation for their behavior is lamist because it's basically an excuse of "trying to generate information." 498
It isn't the first time it happened, Autere's been complaining since almost the beginning of the game. I think it's genuine but NAI.In post 529, JunkoChan wrote:I think I'm going with +Gnosia on that one I can buy frustration and boredom if this was like day 3-4 and we are still talking about mech but this is page 22 in a large.. but I don't know enough about Autere to be sure if this is AI or notIn post 526, Scoliosis wrote:I feel like there is a story left untold here.
I understand what your points are, I just don't agree. Your case is built on Shiki pointing out a potential VT crumb, if I'm understanding it correctly. I don't think the premise of "Shiki pointing out VT crumb = Bug" is correct, you would have to convince me why a Bug specifically would do that.In post 543, Scoliosis wrote:I guarantee you that most or all of what I've been saying about shiki has gone over your head.In post 540, Roden wrote:I don't think that's Bug indicative. The fastest route to winning as Bug is to vote out all of the Gnosia ASAP, they only want to scum side if it increases their chances of winning.In post 519, Scoliosis wrote:IMO get shiki first for pointing out tpr tell in a game without daytalk. 464
Explanation for their behavior is lamist because it's basically an excuse of "trying to generate information." 498
I get the thought process of "Ranger is crumbing VT, that's weird", though turns out it was a crumb for something else entirely. Clearing that up is useful and personally helps me solidify my town reads there.
Right now I'm feeling good about Junko, Scoliosis, Shiki, and Ranger. NK15 felt off to me but he's conftown now.
I'd like some further clarification then.In post 558, Scoliosis wrote:540 and 557 indicate to me that you understand and disagree with exactly one of the points I made (shiki pointing out vt crumbs is extremely anti town in a setup without day talk) and you did not understand the points I made following that.In post 557, Roden wrote:I understand what your points are, I just don't agree.
This doesn't tell me much, I don't know why you think her reaction looks terrible.
This is just confbias, it only serves as a point if I agree with the argument "pointing out VT crumb = Bug", which I don't. It's what I mean when I say the premise of your case relies on something I just don't think is correct. If there's something else I'm missing then you'll have to quote it.In post 537, Scoliosis wrote:I think you keep stating this over and over again as a way to actively avoid the issues I clearly explained in 519, which have nothing to do with whether or not you are the bug.In post 535, shiki wrote:still don’t get what you think is terrible about my reaction nor what you’re even bugreading me for in the first place since you agree with me
but eh
After you make this post, you start casing her further. You don't walk back the Bug accusation at any point. There is zero reason for me to believe you're not casing her as the Bug.In post 512, Scoliosis wrote:VOTE: shikiIn post 509, shiki wrote:i am not though i am interested in your reasoningIn post 506, Scoliosis wrote:Shiki is the bug I think?
(unless you’re gnosia in which case sure shoot me and find out)
You know why..
This here just turns into a general suspicion towards Shiki, and I already gave my take on post 519.In post 537, Scoliosis wrote:I think you keep stating this over and over again as a way to actively avoid the issues I clearly explained in 519, which have nothing to do with whether or not you are the bug.In post 535, shiki wrote:still don’t get what you think is terrible about my reaction nor what you’re even bugreading me for in the first place since you agree with me
but eh
This is the only point where you call the VT crumb thing anti-town, and it's after I already made it clear that I think that you're casing Shiki as the Bug. And even then you still don't make it clear that you don't think Shiki is the Bug anymore. You never actually say that and you're just assuming that I'm not taking anything you say in good faith, when the problem is that your follow up posts to your "Shiki is Bug" post don't explicitly say otherwise.In post 558, Scoliosis wrote:540 and 557 indicate to me that you understand and disagree with exactly one of the points I made (shiki pointing out vt crumbs is extremely anti town in a setup without day talk) and you did not understand the points I made following that.In post 557, Roden wrote:I understand what your points are, I just don't agree.
Can you fucking stop throwing a fitIn post 596, Scoliosis wrote:Hey fakegod, considering this is a follow-the-cop game where scum have no day chat for tpr hunting, I thought it might be especially pro town of me if I pointed out that I noticed you are probably a vt. I encourage everyone to voice in on this so we can "generate" some "information."
Don't mind me, just engaging in regular pro town behavior.
In post 383, shiki wrote:i would be fine with everyone claiming everything today but everytime i’ve suggested that day one in the past there was a lot of pushback i think people find it to be Not Fun which is fine i get itIn post 378, Enchant wrote:Right now i am motivated by pressuring narrow so he claims he is Not Engineer, so he won't pull claim from his ass if/after NK15 die.In post 446, shiki wrote:what do youIn post 445, JunkoChan wrote:i
make of klick
seemingly being unaware that gnosia don’t have daytalk
while discussing what elmo would be likely/unlikely to fake as mafia
ie do you think klick would be likely to fake this as mafia
/
cheeky enough to do so while talking about what mafia would be likely to fake?In post 448, shiki wrote:question also open to others i supposeIn post 498, shiki wrote:would rather discuss it with regards to ranger alignment than ignore
it is like, if ranger town, sure mafia might have missed it though not very likely
but if ranger mafia, town might have missed and she might be able to claim later et cetera
and also like, ranger good investigation target because of claim
and it seemed odd to me that ranger would make that post outside of potential wifom and if the purpose is wifom then discussing adds to anyway, so
;
do you make anything of it?
That's probably the only thing we can do tbh. I think everything you've said WRT mech makes sense and is the most effective way to play this set up, I just don't think most people will understand that if they don't have experience with this set up/the game beforehand.In post 631, shiki wrote:idk feel like my thoughts on mech / claims and such have done little other than create a mess even if i still think they make sense so i’m probably just going to focus on finding a mafia when i wake up and hope anyone who has any questions / doubts with regards to me takes me up on my offer to talk / be sorted in whatever wayIn post 627, Roden wrote:Shiki I don't think they're gonna understand why Doctor needs to claim now until it's too late AKA tomorrow when it finally sets in what a flipless setup means
How would Coroner claiming mean scum have less NK choices?In post 677, Freedom wrote:In that, I feel like his opposition to Coroner claiming feels like he wants to scum to have less NK choices.