Cosmos Mafia (Postgame)

[Past Present Future]

Why would anyone have a read on a no poster? Auro has had serious health issues and doesn’t even know what’s going on in this game.

Hence, I have no reason to townread him. I'm not sure why you take issue with this.

@Dangle, my issue with any read made on Auro is anything other than an nia read on him particularly is suss to me. Only me and Titus have been posting, so you even mentioning Auro at all is concerning to me.

[Past Present Future]

Cheating is not something I ever do as any alignment and to even *hint* at that is disgusting,

To call hinting at an allegation of cheating 'disgusting' is pretty disgusting and is commonly used as a way of trying to intimidate people out of making said allegations in situations where it

is

called for. Don't do that.

This is nia but ridiculous, imo.

[Past Present Future]

@Dangle, who do you think are MMRs buddies, because I’ve been pouring over their ISO as well as the VCs and I still can’t figure it out but what I do know is that since people are wrongly sr me, I know I’m probably not long for this game, so absolutely nothing would make me happier than limming one of their buddies, so if it’s not you, then please help me to do that. If my fate is to either to ultimately get either miselimed, misvigged or less likely nk’d, I’d feel less bummed about it if I took out scum on my way out.

[Past Present Future]

Intent to vote MMR which will likely result in hammer as people said they are sheeping me will move

Get last thoughts in soon. Probably 30 minutes ish til I vote

This hardly qualifies as intent to hammer. Standard protocol is generally 24 hours.
~Mumps

What

What I am saying is that this is merely MathBlade posturing. If he truly wanted to give us time to give final reads, he would give at least 24 hours.

Anyway, my reads (which are totally not vetted by my partners) is something like

PPF

, mastina, and

MathBlade

are

all

scum. Yume, furtive, Dingle Dangle, Enchant, and T-Bone are town. No opinion on everyone else.
~Mumps

Here’s yet another post which backs up my belief they lied. I obviously know they did because of my role pm but there’s just no way anyone in their right minds thinks that Math and us are ever aligned.

I finally busted their bs claim. *does happy dance*

[Past Present Future]

Intent to vote MMR which will likely result in hammer as people said they are sheeping me will move

Get last thoughts in soon. Probably 30 minutes ish til I vote

This hardly qualifies as intent to hammer. Standard protocol is generally 24 hours.
~Mumps

What

What I am saying is that this is merely MathBlade posturing. If he truly wanted to give us time to give final reads, he would give at least 24 hours.

Anyway, my reads (which are totally not vetted by my partners) is something like

PPF

, mastina, and

MathBlade

are

all

scum. Yume, furtive, Dingle Dangle, Enchant, and T-Bone are town. No opinion on everyone else.
~Mumps

Here’s yet another post which backs up my belief they lied. I obviously know they did because of my role pm but there’s just no way anyone in their right minds thinks that Math and us are ever aligned.

I finally busted their bs claim. *does happy dance*

I should probably also add Mastina and Math to that reason for MMR being totally full of shit. You can logically think us and Mastina could be aligned but it makes absolutely no sense to think us or Mastina are ever aligned with Math.

[Past Present Future]

Just a bit of movement, I'm going to drop the formatting I did on the previous list.

Obviously my confidence in Prof is very high. I've grouped together DDS/Math and CSF/Meuh because I think their alignments depend on each other a bit. Like I think DDS/Math are town but if one flipped scum I will assume the other is scum as well. If I wasn't tying the two slots together I'd rate Math much lower by play...but every time I think about these two slots I think they have to be town. I think Meuh/CSF have a lot of partner equity where if Meuh flipped scum I think that would mean CSF is scum too. But, I could see them as opposite alignments. I have a hard time seeing both as town because of the way the slots have interacted the entire game. Unfortunately I have so many people I think are town I could be wrong somewhere. But I just don't know who among my townreads I could be wrong on. Rat gets a little mechanical assistance but I think by play Rat is town. I think FB and Enchant are very obviously town. I am reasonably certain DDS is town, and honestly I think I have Junko too low as it is. I'm relatively confident on Toog given there's not a lot of slots left I think could be scum, Ydrasse also by PoE, and I think there's still a chance MMR thought PPF was solar and that explains their play.

Spoiler: Reads 3.1

Rat
FB
Enchant
DDS/Math
Junko
-Town Line of No Return-
CSF/Meuh
Ydrasse
PPF
Toog
Prof

Spoiler: Reads 3.0

Some Sort of Mech Thing
Rat
DDS
Math
Meuh
CSF

Kinda Mech
Prof

Town Lean
Enchant
FB
Scarf

The Rest
PPF
Toog
Ydrasse

So same question to you TBone:

Your premises and conclusion don’t seem to match.

You say your premise of me/DDS is faulty if Prof is scum. Yet you think prof is scum. This doesn’t add up.

You think Fire is town yet don’t push on CSF or Meuh why?

I'm prioritizing my reads over mech speculation because while I know what I would design as a mod I don't know what Meg will do. I'm much like some others before me, explaining how my reads might change if we get some flips.

I literally voted for Meuh yesterday. I'm not Firebringer so it's not my responsibility to push his scumreads. I have other players ranked lower then them.

I also don't agree with the reads of DDS and Junko despite them also being my town reads. Why did you single out Firebringer?

Which reads in particular are you disagreeing with, I mean other than Junko’s voting you obviously? I’m assuming Prof but you keep saying they scumslipped but I’m not seeing that? I think they sound similar here to LOST, as does CSF.

[Past Present Future]

@PPF could you post your read list in 1 post? I'm not sure of where you are at or where you are going now

I don’t have a complete list yet or I’d clearly know who to vote but I think CSF, Meuh, you, Math and probably Prof.

Sorry but that’s the best I have right now.

[Past Present Future]

@PPF could you post your read list in 1 post? I'm not sure of where you are at or where you are going now

CSF, Meuh, you, Math and probably Prof.

this is what?

town?
solar?
lunar?
aliens?

Slot’s I think are town, I thought that was obvious.

[Past Present Future]

I think the check should be on PPF also. If they turn out to be Moon, then that's almost a clear,

barring MMR deciding to claim a guilty on their partner for......... reasons

?

WUT

[Past Present Future]

Which reads in particular are you disagreeing with, I mean other than Junko’s voting you obviously? I’m assuming Prof but you keep saying they scumslipped but I’m not seeing that? I think they sound similar here to LOST, as does CSF.

I mean literally all Junko's scum reads are my town reads and me.

To answer how Prof scumslipped, Prof claimed that the scumteams picked DDS/Math for the blessings they received at the end of day 1. Since no one had voiced this in thread or considered this in thread before, it looked like to me that he slipped information only the scumteam had. When I asked him if this was information he had, his immediately response was to try and say he never said that. Then he came up with some other excuses but the thing about a scumslip is that the damage is done when you do it.

Prof is different from Lost because Prof in this game has given up when he was pushed to three votes on Night 1, he tried to lie about his scumslip by acting like he never made that post and he has since gotten absolutely unhinged ever since I started calling him scum. He continues to quote me and make nonsensical claims about my posts to justify his fake scum read of me, based on some half brain theory about me being recruited by DDS into the Lunar scum team. He even quotes joke posts as evidence I'm scum. He does this because his read isn't real.

I think your read of him being the same as Lost is based on tone and not based on actions. Prof in Lost did not crumble to pressure, and was not afraid to push his scumreads, to the point where he faked a cop guilty like a fool to get someone eliminated. Now despite me being the only scumread he can't shut up about, he is afraid to 1v1 me because he knows my town flip puts him in a bad spot. In not stop talking about his scumread of me despite not doing anything about it, he talks about how he wants Solar to win rather than town to win. More importantly,

he will not vote me until others do

. I'm writing this post after Junko has placed a vote on me and Math voted me earlier in the day phase. I won't be surprised if when I click post he has finally placed his vote down. I expect after I flip town he will blame me for my bad play, blame Junko and Math for not flipping DDS first, and continue to try and not take responsibility for this top scumread he has. I have never seen Prof so afraid to vote his top scumread, have you?

No but you’re not voting he either unless I’m missing something?

[Past Present Future]

VC 4.0.8

Ydrasse (4) Meuh, Cat Scratch Fever, Professotic, Junkochan [E-3]

Dingle Dangle Scarecrow (2) Radical Rat, Mathblade
Meuh (2) Ydrasse, Enchant

Firebringer (1) Dingle Dangle Scarecrow
Professotic (1) T-Bone,
Cat Scratch Fever (1) Firebringer

Not Voting (2): Porkens, Past Present Future ,

With 13 Alive it takes 7 to eliminate
Deadline: 1 day*
*Deadline Frozen for Porkens Replacement

Oh sorry, you’re right. I stand corrected. @Prof why aren’t you voting T-Bone?

[Past Present Future]

I think the check should be on PPF also. If they turn out to be Moon, then that's almost a clear,

barring MMR deciding to claim a guilty on their partner for......... reasons

?

WUT

MMR claimed a soft guilty on you with the Loyal thing. You know this. As such, MMR faking a guilty on their partner is the only way you can be Lunar scum. This is exceedingly unlikely, therefore you turning out to be Moon-attuned is most likely an inno result.

I just proved that they lied but I’m of course fine with being checked. My role pm doesn’t mention anything but town.

[Past Present Future]

Which reads in particular are you disagreeing with, I mean other than Junko’s voting you obviously? I’m assuming Prof but you keep saying they scumslipped but I’m not seeing that? I think they sound similar here to LOST, as does CSF.

I mean literally all Junko's scum reads are my town reads and me.

To answer how Prof scumslipped, Prof claimed that the scumteams picked DDS/Math for the blessings they received at the end of day 1. Since no one had voiced this in thread or considered this in thread before, it looked like to me that he slipped information only the scumteam had. When I asked him if this was information he had, his immediately response was to try and say he never said that. Then he came up with some other excuses but the thing about a scumslip is that the damage is done when you do it.

Prof is different from Lost because Prof in this game has given up when he was pushed to three votes on Night 1, he tried to lie about his scumslip by acting like he never made that post and he has since gotten absolutely unhinged ever since I started calling him scum. He continues to quote me and make nonsensical claims about my posts to justify his fake scum read of me, based on some half brain theory about me being recruited by DDS into the Lunar scum team. He even quotes joke posts as evidence I'm scum. He does this because his read isn't real.

I think your read of him being the same as Lost is based on tone and not based on actions. Prof in Lost did not crumble to pressure, and was not afraid to push his scumreads, to the point where he faked a cop guilty like a fool to get someone eliminated. Now despite me being the only scumread he can't shut up about, he is afraid to 1v1 me because he knows my town flip puts him in a bad spot. In not stop talking about his scumread of me despite not doing anything about it, he talks about how he wants Solar to win rather than town to win. More importantly,

he will not vote me until others do

. I'm writing this post after Junko has placed a vote on me and Math voted me earlier in the day phase. I won't be surprised if when I click post he has finally placed his vote down. I expect after I flip town he will blame me for my bad play, blame Junko and Math for not flipping DDS first, and continue to try and not take responsibility for this top scumread he has. I have never seen Prof so afraid to vote his top scumread, have you?

No but you’re not voting he either unless I’m missing something?

I know you've been absent much of the day phase but I was sitting on Prof for most of the day phase by myself. I only changed because after arguing ad nauseum and getting steadfast refusals from players like Junko, Math, DDS, Rat, Meuh, you!...players I would need to vote with me in order to flip Prof, I wanted to at least flip someone who isn't a strong townread like DDS. I cannot flip Prof by myself. If you change your read I am all in on that vote though.

I think your point about them not voting you is valid. If they believe you’re scum, then why vote Dangle?

[Past Present Future]

And I’m sorry T-Bone but again your job is to execute Solar and I’m sorry to tell you but I’m Town.
You need to push Solar if you want any chance at winning.

Because right now I’m just gonna spite vote Lunar cause of the way they are acting.

Except if this were true and you were town I am the better vote because I claimed VT. But you're not so this isn't a concern for you.

XD
Yeah no buddy.
The better vote is Dingle rather then a Convert.

And what if Dangle flips town?

I also believe Enchant town slipped at the time when we both revealed we were clueless about the attunement of Mastina's claim because our PMs don't mention anything about it. So like to me, that shows me Enchant was thinking the same way I was, and since I'm town, I'm inclined to trust people who have similar thoughts to me. That second bit is specific to me, but that's the other reason I read Enchant as town.

I also read Enchant as Town.
And I hope when Dingle flips Lunar they realize your Dingle’s Convert.

Do you or do you not sr T-Bone?

[Past Present Future]

Why would MMR go for a 1 for 1 vs town?

If MMR actually had any kind of guilty on us which I know to be impossible anyway, why were they hard gunning for Mastina then?

If I have any kind of REAL guilty on a slot - soft or hard - I don’t try to lim someone else.

Read their posts. They posted some type of informed bs about how her role is a scum role. If Lunars are informed about anything to do with us it’s they know that some variation of our role exists and they were very clearly role fishing me. That’s why they questioned Yume because Yume said we lied about being neighbourizer, when we actually thought she was neighbourizer.


They clearly wanted Mastina dead > us and only voted us for self-pres. It’s all there. Do I need to pull up all of the quotes?

[Past Present Future]

@Dangle, who do you think are MMRs buddies, because I’ve been pouring over their ISO as well as the VCs and I still can’t figure it out but what I do know is that since people are wrongly sr me, I know I’m probably not long for this game, so absolutely nothing would make me happier than limming one of their buddies, so if it’s not you, then please help me to do that. If my fate is to either to ultimately get either miselimed, misvigged or less likely nk’d, I’d feel less bummed about it if I took out scum on my way out.

Why are you ignoring this?

[Past Present Future]

Only way MMR claim doesn't result in a 1 for 1 in the case that PPF was voted out is that PPF flips solar instead of Town

who disagrees and why?

Do you mean in a world where we flipped PPF instead and PPF was solar?

I think then it would have "proved" the role MMR claimed and we would have left him alone. It's only a 1v1 if we had flipped PPF and they flipped town.

correct

so if that was what MMR was going for it would make sense

is the only world where MMR's play makes sense

Their entire ISO doesn’t make sense. They even scolded the mod for wasting post space and not being responsible in reducing her carbon footprint.

But I know they’re wrong and they tried to get Mastina limmed over us, so why do you think that is?

[Past Present Future]

@Dangle, who do you think are MMRs buddies, because I’ve been pouring over their ISO as well as the VCs and I still can’t figure it out but what I do know is that since people are wrongly sr me, I know I’m probably not long for this game, so absolutely nothing would make me happier than limming one of their buddies, so if it’s not you, then please help me to do that. If my fate is to either to ultimately get either miselimed, misvigged or less likely nk’d, I’d feel less bummed about it if I took out scum on my way out.

Why are you ignoring this?

If Dangle continues to ignore my posts, I will vote them.

[Past Present Future]

I've been lightly skimming, and this seems to be the right play simply because MMR's claim actively conflicts with both mastina and PPF?

It doesn't.
It only conflicts with mastina.
-Rubella

You're Loyal and your action didn't work on PPF

What reasonable explanation do you think makes PPF potentially not scum?

We could've been blocked or PPF could be Ascetic Town.
-Rubella

PPF has already claimed not ascetic unless I'm misremembering
You're not a sensible roleblock target when there are already powerful claimed PRs, and even if you were, that explanation should be much less likely than 'the Loyal part of my role worked as intended'

PPF has already claimed not ascetic unless I'm misremembering
You're not a sensible roleblock target when there are already powerful claimed PRs, and even if you were, that explanation should be much less likely than 'the Loyal part of my role worked as intended'

I see.
The TR on PPF was only testing reactions.
I thought that it was obvious that I wouldn't TR a slot just from their response.
-Rubella

And I don't TR them anymore.
-Rubella

DDS, what is your read on Toog?
Something about them voting Math and then instantly unvoting when asked if it was serious, feels somewhat off.
-Rubella

When I read this exchange and try to put myself in Rubella shoes, I see someone changing their mind on something. I can't see this as a scum intentional pivot. It just wouldn't be effective enough under normal circumstances.

So I was wrong about MMR's alignment here but I don't believe my interpretation of what happened here was wrong. I believe Rubella was not aware that what he had was a guilty, and through me explaining the situation to him clearly he realised that it was most likely a guilty. That's consistent with how he was acting before he understood before he swapped stances - it was like a light switch flicked in his head. I'd encourage people to reread it.

That’s pretty much ALL I’ve been doing and you still haven’t answered my question.

VOTE: Dangle

Maybe this will get you to take it seriously.

[Past Present Future]

@Dangle, who do you think are MMRs buddies, because I’ve been pouring over their ISO as well as the VCs and I still can’t figure it out but what I do know is that since people are wrongly sr me, I know I’m probably not long for this game, so absolutely nothing would make me happier than limming one of their buddies, so if it’s not you, then please help me to do that. If my fate is to either to ultimately get either miselimed, misvigged or less likely nk’d, I’d feel less bummed about it if I took out scum on my way out.

Why are you ignoring this?

If Dangle continues to ignore my posts, I will vote them.

I asked you very specifically who you think MMR’s buddies are and you continue to ignore that. If you are actually town here and not their buddy, you should be trying to find their buddies, since they were the only scumflip, yet you continue to avoid the question.

[Past Present Future]

lol

You think I’m joking with this? I ask you who do you think are MMR buddies and you’re doing your level best to avoid answering that.

[Past Present Future]

I was initially hesitating on voting you because I tr CSF and they were tr you but there’s no good reason I can think of why town would not even try to answer that question. And who is your current vote on? Fire, who iirc you said that you didn’t tr but you did agree with me that he was unlikely to be aligned with MMR, so that’s what hard pings me. You seem to have 0 interest in finding any MMR buddies and I think that considering MMR is the only confibiasing scumflip, there’s no townie reason to not do that.

[Past Present Future]

If you want a fucking immediate response my answer is that I've been meaning to go back and parse who likely MMR partners are for AGES but trying to go back and parse through the first two days of this game is like dragging nails on a chalkboard and I don't fucking WANT to do it. I value enjoyment when playing this. I did some early PoE to deduce who is unlikely to be Lunar scum fairly soon after the MMR flip and found that Firebringer and yourself were unlikely buddies with MMR. If you want more than that then you're going to have to fucking wait for me to do more analysis.

But you can understand why I find that suss don’t you? You don’t Lunar read either of us. Fine, I’ll shut up for now but I find that extremely suspicious.

[Past Present Future]

do we know if mafia can talk during the day?

1

Nope.

[Past Present Future]

I was initially hesitating on voting you because I tr CSF and they were tr you but there’s no good reason I can think of why town would not even try to answer that question. And who is your current vote on? Fire, who iirc you said that you didn’t tr but you did agree with me that he was unlikely to be aligned with MMR, so that’s what hard pings me. You seem to have 0 interest in finding any MMR buddies and I think that considering MMR is the only CONFIRMED scumflip, there’s no townie reason to not do that.

I hate autocorrect, it always makes me look stupid.

[Past Present Future]

But that my issue with you. I want you to try to look for MMR buddies so I have reason to think you’re not one. My vote will remain until you do.

[Past Present Future]

I asked azumarill anyway

I assume you didn’t get answers?

[Past Present Future]

It would be wild for MMR's team to not at least know their results, even without daytalk?

+1

100% agree with this. I think Mastina argued something similar but slogging through all of her walls gives me a massive headache. Sorry Mastina if you’re reading this but I really tried to read through it. It’s just too much for my ADHD brain to process.

[Past Present Future]

It would be wild for MMR's team to not at least know their results, even without daytalk?

wdym?

I think I see what you’re getting at but whenever I’ve been scum, any mod results were always posted in the scum pt. It’s only towns who receive results in the form of pms.

[Past Present Future]

It would be wild for MMR's team to not at least know their results, even without daytalk?

wdym?

I think I see what you’re getting at but whenever I’ve been scum, any mod results were always posted in the scum pt. It’s only towns who receive results in the form of pms.

I haven't been scum in any completed games since I came back, I assumed everyone got their results through pms

In Undertale and FFIV, both mech complex games in which I was scum, I recall all results being posted in our pts.

[Past Present Future]

I'm still interested in T-Bone's answer

(I am still reading back on MMR interactions don't hurt me pls PPF)

Okay, I don’t want to vote you if you’re town.

UNVOTE:

for now

[Past Present Future]

Also, PPF lied about selling apples.

Really?
We tried to investigate them last Night and we received no result.
Measles think that this could be due to our Loyal modifier.
-Rubella

This was MMR's first post D2, which would clearly communicate their result to their partners if there wasn't daytalk

Yeah, this post is the main reason other than of course knowing my role pm, why I believe lied and there is at least one Mastina post specifically discussing this. Props to anyone who wants to find that post but Mastina’s extremely proficient in mech but I’m not and she called bs on the claim for specifically mech reasons.

[Past Present Future]

The part about scum being the informed minority requires them to be informed. Anything is possible I'm not the mod but I can't imagine MMR's team not knowing any results if MMR had them.

MMR's flip says MMR receives the info

I'm not seeing the practical importance of this distinction though it should be clear from 3116 that MMR's partners would know their result anyway

Well, that’s another interesting thing because if that claim was real than who are the MMR buddies still pushing us? Because don’t you think it’s weird how - whomever they are - have just completely backed off of us post-flip? Pretty much the only slot that’s really coming after us was Scarf and Junko obvtowned that slot.

[Past Present Future]

The part about scum being the informed minority requires them to be informed. Anything is possible I'm not the mod but I can't imagine MMR's team not knowing any results if MMR had them.

MMR's flip says MMR receives the info

I'm not seeing the practical importance of this distinction though it should be clear from 3116 that MMR's partners would know their result anyway

Well, that’s another interesting thing because if that claim was real than who are the MMR buddies still pushing us? Because don’t you think it’s weird how - whomever they are - have just completely backed off of us post-flip? Pretty much the only slot that’s really coming after us was Scarf and Junko obvtowned that slot.

Or they just lied and botched a fakeclaim, always a possibility. It's your favorite one I thought!

That’s what I’m saying because if there were any truth to it whatsoever, their buddies wouldn’t have backed off post flip, so maybe I’m looking in the wrong place but how do you even distinguish MMR buddies who have backed off of us from town, if my theory is actually correct and I have everything ass backwards? Maybe they didn’t expect MMR to blow it that badly and once they did, they knew they needed to back off. Idk but it’s just plain weird to me in any case.

[Past Present Future]

Oh so the scumclaim of a role was an actual scumclaim not a Troll, reaction test, or joke???

...WELL THEN.
VOTE: MMR

Can you explain here please?

I don’t see how you get here.

Well, it's both mechanics and play.

Play can be chalked up to mistake from ONE player, but from THREE players, ESPECIALLY mechanics-oriented players, it is so borderline unacceptable that it is genuinely an instant elimination.

Let's start with the Neapolitan half. A Neapolitan is at its strongest by targeting VTs, to generate hard-innocents. And since we have VTs in the game per the D1 flip, that means that MMR would know that they should try to get innocent results.

The D1 elimination proved that there are VTs, but you know what also happened just before the elimination?

...Not one, but TWO different players effectively hard-townslipped a claim which essentially hinted at being VTs.
Scarfmanship spelled this out the night I claimed, that T-Bone and Enchant believing that their role PMs gave no hint to alignment basically hard-spewed them as VTs.

A Neapolitan, with not one but TWO players that essentially accidentally hardclaimed VT, chose to investigate NEITHER if them???

I can get some random player making that mistake.
But Ircher is, infamously, a mechanics-oriented player. Do you think Ircher with a Neapolitan sees two players who basically hardclaimed VT and decides to investigate neither of them?

RH9 from my understanding is ALSO mechanics-oriented. I've never actually played with him to verify, but seeing how he's literally THE most prolific user in mafia discussion, discussing the mechanics of roles, I'm pretty damn certain that he is a mechanics-oriented player, and I don’t buy him making the Mistake, either.

Roden is the only one who could, but even TODEN is no slouch mechanically.

And you want to tell me that not one, not two, but THREE different holders of the role which is mechanics oriented made a night action choice that is woefully suboptimal?

It's beyond improbable.

It's not like Neapolitan is a gimmicky role. It's one of the most common Normal Game roles in existence. So all three of them should know the basic theory of the value of a hard-innocent.


Beyond that? PPF was town enough to be a nightkill option--you don’t try to target players who could be the nightkill, you specifically try to target those who will not be. This doesn’t contradict the above, either since neither T-Bone nor Enchant were likely nightkills ESPECIALLY given being vanilla. Even if they thought ONE VT would be nightkilled, they would know at least one would live--and let's be real, mo scum kills Enchant ever. So they could safely target Enchant.

PPF was more town than scum yesterday.
So being so, which alignment has more reason to effectively rolecop them? (Neapolitan is a hybrid between Cop and Rolecop.)
It ain't town.

Scum had more reasons to rolecop PPF than town did.

AND INE MORE THING--MathBlade was a PR claim, but why not target Dingle Dangle Scarecrow? MY being unable to target either makes sense (it'd potentially hard-clear them), but MMR's role has no such justification--why not check DDS???

This all is play. You can attempt to write it off as a display of absolute sheer incompetence if you'd like, a collective brain shutdown from all three players who should know better. (Roden literally got mislimmed in part thanks to targeting a PPF like player N1. So to make the same sort of mistake twice is even less likely.)

But then we get into the actual role part.

Namely, how the two halves are highly redundant.
ANY result that is successful is an automatic innocent, thanks to Loyal.
Neapolitan is a role which generates innocents in of itself, by targeting VTs.
By stacking the two, it becomes effectively a more powerful cop, NOT ONLY learning if someone is town, BUT ALSO if they're a VT or a PR.
If it were just Neapolitan I'd believe it.
If it were just Loyal with a confirming result of literally any sort, I would believe it. (Checker, Motion Detector, etc. Literally any role which gets feedback at the end of a night, which is not already innately one of the strongest investigative roles in the game the way Neapolitan is.)

Beyond all that?

I don’t believe that the town has a Loyal Neapolitan ON TOP OF the revealing mechanic shown at the end of D1 ON TOP OF my role, which theirs is basically a stronger version of.

My role just checks for attunement, which is a possible indicator of alignment and potentially reveals role or VTs;
Theirs gets outright confirmation of alignment AND role. They're literally claiming a stronger version of my role, which was even able to act a night sooner than me! (BTW free piece of NRG advice: the NRG tends to balance odd/even night roles by putting the weaker one FIRST, not second. Not always, but as a way to keep the power down.)

And then there are two other reasons for why I think that's a mechical scumclaim, but I'll finish with a final non-mechanics one:
I don’t buy MMR being blocked by scum;
I don’t buy PPF being an unclaimed ascetic;
MMR were in the PoE already for scum;
PPF are town enough to be basically conftown.
If they're trying to force a noncommittal guilty where after PPF flip town they go "Oh I guess we were roleblocked", well, I call bullshit. So, because PPF is never scum here, if there WAS a 1v1, by default, MMR would be the scum within.

And to reiterate, I have two extra mechanics reasons for doubting the claim beyond what I've shared.
Maybe a play reason or two, too

.

This one, Nancy?

I guess there were several then. The specific one I was thinking about involved MMR/Yume interactions but I would also like to see the follow up to the bolded as well.

[Past Present Future]

@Dangle, who do you think are MMRs buddies, because I’ve been pouring over their ISO as well as the VCs and I still can’t figure it out but what I do know is that since people are wrongly sr me, I know I’m probably not long for this game, so absolutely nothing would make me happier than limming one of their buddies, so if it’s not you, then please help me to do that. If my fate is to either to ultimately get either miselimed, misvigged or less likely nk’d, I’d feel less bummed about it if I took out scum on my way out.

Tbh you're unlikely to be Lunar imo so if you want to be townread, you should be hunting for Solar. That's the primary reason I don't townread you - I don't see you pushing that much, and your primary push lately has been DDS, who can't be Solar

Okay, you have a valid point but we have only had one scum flipped so far and that was a Lunar. My primary method of scum hunting is either NKA ot VCA and there has been no night kills and I can’t get much use out of VCA without a scumflip. If you have any better ideas as what you think I can do more to also find Solars, then please tell me.

[Past Present Future]

So let's tally, who is still open as potential Lunar

8 Enchant
15Save the Dragons Ydrasse
16 T-Bone

...oh shit

this + you is basically my Lunar PoE, although Ydrasse can be either faction I think

And you hit the nail on the head with that. If Ydrasse is scum, it shouldn’t be that hard to figure if she’s Solar or Lunar. I suppose it’s possible that she could be doing a brilliant job of hiding it. I will say this, considering FA.s fight with STD who replaced out. Now true we can’t say if that had anything to do with it or not but I don’t think FA and STD looked aligned. So, Idk if that helps?

[Past Present Future]

@Dangle, who do you think are MMRs buddies, because I’ve been pouring over their ISO as well as the VCs and I still can’t figure it out but what I do know is that since people are wrongly sr me, I know I’m probably not long for this game, so absolutely nothing would make me happier than limming one of their buddies, so if it’s not you, then please help me to do that. If my fate is to either to ultimately get either miselimed, misvigged or less likely nk’d, I’d feel less bummed about it if I took out scum on my way out.

Tbh you're unlikely to be Lunar imo so if you want to be townread, you should be hunting for Solar. That's the primary reason I don't townread you - I don't see you pushing that much, and your primary push lately has been DDS, who can't be Solar

Okay, you have a valid point but we have only had one scum flipped so far and that was a Lunar. My primary method of scum hunting is either NKA ot VCA and there has been no night kills and I can’t get much use out of VCA without a scumflip. If you have any better ideas as what you think I can do more to also find Solars, then please tell me.

Meta too. I looked at some recent Ydrasse games and it didn’t help me at all here.

[Past Present Future]

@Dangle, who do you think are MMRs buddies, because I’ve been pouring over their ISO as well as the VCs and I still can’t figure it out but what I do know is that since people are wrongly sr me, I know I’m probably not long for this game, so absolutely nothing would make me happier than limming one of their buddies, so if it’s not you, then please help me to do that. If my fate is to either to ultimately get either miselimed, misvigged or less likely nk’d, I’d feel less bummed about it if I took out scum on my way out.

Tbh you're unlikely to be Lunar imo so if you want to be townread, you should be hunting for Solar. That's the primary reason I don't townread you - I don't see you pushing that much, and your primary push lately has been DDS, who can't be Solar

Assuming PPF is Town, why would they care which scum they're pushing? Prioritizing appearances over taking whatever scum you can find is Not what I would consider to be a Town mindset.

+1

Yes, I just want to really get a scum today, I don’t care which one.

[Past Present Future]

i think my main issue skimming dds is mainly like. i feel like they're projecting rlly strong stances about mastina/math but not really putting in the legwork to actualize what they care about (mastina town ie why are you not kicking and screaming more trying to dismantle this wagon yk)

I think this is valid criticism
The main reason that I've not been pushing the gamestate is because I hate it and don't want to engage with it because it will be extremely unenjoyable

I don’t think I want to vote Ydrasse.

[Past Present Future]

Is there a point to this day beyond people testing wagons? Each one appears to stall out because of waiting for that.

As for the guilty being real, that's a stretch. I get from your perspective, it's possible lunar had a guilty on us but it wouldn't be through the garbage role as that role is impossible to get a guilty imo.

~Titus

[Past Present Future]

Is there a point to this day beyond people testing wagons? Each one appears to stall out because of waiting for that.

As for the guilty being real, that's a stretch. I get from your perspective, it's possible lunar had a guilty on us but it wouldn't be through the garbage role as that role is impossible to get a guilty imo.

~Titus

That is Porkens.

I'm tired.

[Past Present Future]

If you’re concerned about wagons stalling out why haven’t you voted practically anywhere most of the day?

Nancy has our vote. We are trying to sort our dissonance but I'm struggling to like any wagon but professor and she doesn't like it. I may ask to compromise on Ydrasse soon.

One not voting shouldn't lead to wagon stalls in a game this size though.

~Titus

[Past Present Future]

If you’re concerned about wagons stalling out why haven’t you voted practically anywhere most of the day?

I voted Dangle, then unvoted. Why is that a problem?

[Past Present Future]

@Ydrasse, vote Professor and I'll give you treats

You really should ISO them in LOST. Prof faked a guilty on town as town and we miselimed him for it as you would expect to happen.

[Past Present Future]

If you’re concerned about wagons stalling out why haven’t you voted practically anywhere most of the day?

Nancy has our vote. We are trying to sort our dissonance but I'm struggling to like any wagon but professor and she doesn't like it. I may ask to compromise on Ydrasse soon.

One not voting shouldn't lead to wagon stalls in a game this size though.

~Titus

Compromise wagons usually tend to be town more often than not but that’s true, one person can’t hold up the vote. Probably if day wasn’t frozen, I’d vote the majority wagon whomever that was to avoid deadline no lim but that’s not happening yet.

[Past Present Future]

@Dangle, who do you think are MMRs buddies, because I’ve been pouring over their ISO as well as the VCs and I still can’t figure it out but what I do know is that since people are wrongly sr me, I know I’m probably not long for this game, so absolutely nothing would make me happier than limming one of their buddies, so if it’s not you, then please help me to do that. If my fate is to either to ultimately get either miselimed, misvigged or less likely nk’d, I’d feel less bummed about it if I took out scum on my way out.

Tbh you're unlikely to be Lunar imo so if you want to be townread, you should be hunting for Solar. That's the primary reason I don't townread you - I don't see you pushing that much, and your primary push lately has been DDS, who can't be Solar

Assuming PPF is Town, why would they care which scum they're pushing? Prioritizing appearances over taking whatever scum you can find is Not what I would consider to be a Town mindset.

+1

Yes, I just want to really get a scum today, I don’t care which one.

I just wanna say I also strongly feel this is correct from a town perspective. The handwringing over which scum team to flip next is misguided at best and helpful to scum at worst. Flipping scum is flipping scum. We can't hold back on a slot we think is a likely scumflip just because they are the wrong scum team (or we're not sure which scumteam)

I agree and that mindset has probably led to more miselims/misvigges than anything.

[Past Present Future]

@Dangle, who do you think are MMRs buddies, because I’ve been pouring over their ISO as well as the VCs and I still can’t figure it out but what I do know is that since people are wrongly sr me, I know I’m probably not long for this game, so absolutely nothing would make me happier than limming one of their buddies, so if it’s not you, then please help me to do that. If my fate is to either to ultimately get either miselimed, misvigged or less likely nk’d, I’d feel less bummed about it if I took out scum on my way out.

Tbh you're unlikely to be Lunar imo so if you want to be townread, you should be hunting for Solar. That's the primary reason I don't townread you - I don't see you pushing that much, and your primary push lately has been DDS, who can't be Solar

Okay, you have a valid point but we have only had one scum flipped so far and that was a Lunar. My primary method of scum hunting is either NKA ot VCA and there has been no night kills and I can’t get much use out of VCA without a scumflip. If you have any better ideas as what you think I can do more to also find Solars, then please tell me.

I think people who are unlikely partners with MMR but are still scummy = more likely to be solar

What do you think of fb?

I’d consider voting Fire but I liked FA’s posting. What do you think of FA’s posting?

[Past Present Future]

@T-Bone

I’m giving you a chance.
You can vote the Porkens slot that can be Solar here.


Or

You can vote me out, a town.


And I’ll leave a legacy and force town to execute Dingle or Ydrass tomorrow and your Lunar Team loses cause you voted me out.

Why do you think Ydrasse is scum? Weren’t you tr STD? The fact that CSF couldn’t even tell which faction she could possibly be aligned with made me not at all confident in voting her and considering Dangle who was previously tr her, suddenly voted her. How can you think they’re still aligned?

[Past Present Future]

I will say that the sheer number of replacements is probably the main reason this game is so dead. I want to see what Porkens’ replacement does and if I don’t like them. I’d have 0 problem yeeting them.

[Past Present Future]

Frozen Angel

mastina

, focus your efforts into making this happen please
I feel like this hits the sweet spot of 'lowest on your reads' and 'most likely to happen' on that wagon

VOTE: Frozen Angel

Why did you feel so confident on FA!scum? I read her as being really townie? That’s my main hesitation with Fire but I’m surprised you were so confident on FA being scum. I liked a lot of her posts.

[Past Present Future]

I’d consider voting Fire but I liked FA’s posting. What do you think of FA’s posting?

I think her posting made her probably not lunar since she pushed MMR a lot

The conversation i had with firebringer earlier was bizarre, and i didn't think he was sorting me in good faith. the things that he was concerned about also felt nitpicky

Yeah, I didn’t like his vote on you but FA hard defended your predecessor as hardtown. That was one of the reasons I liked FA but I’ll take another look.

I’d vote Fire over Ydrasse I think if it came to that. I see no resistance to a Ydra wagon for one thing. It was the same thing with Mastina on d1.

[Past Present Future]

@T-Bone

I’m giving you a chance.
You can vote the Porkens slot that can be Solar here.


Or

You can vote me out, a town.


And I’ll leave a legacy and force town to execute Dingle or Ydrass tomorrow and your Lunar Team loses cause you voted me out.

Why do you think Ydrasse is scum? Weren’t you tr STD? The fact that CSF couldn’t even tell which faction she could possibly be aligned with made me not at all confident in voting her and considering Dangle who was previously tr her, suddenly voted her. How can you think they’re still aligned?

I meant that ydrasse can be either faction. There's nothing about her posting to rule her out as either faction

Prof thinks Dangle and Ydrasse are aligned but Dangle’s voting her, so I don’t understand how he still thinks that. Yeah and that’s one of the things that gives me pause. I’m feeling with Ydrasse similar to how I felt with furtive albeit less so but it’s enough for me to not want to vote her today.

The lack of resistance is another one. She just suddenly became the top wagon and it seemed like no one had any issue with that. And that’s what I think Yume also said about Mastina. The exception to that is if you ever have a slot like we did in Maria’s Tarot game where Daenarys and Dragons blatantly obvscumed straight out of the gate. There wasn’t any resistance to that but they were flaming obvscum.

[Past Present Future]

There's been plenty of resistance to Ydrasse just like there has been resistance to a wagon in every single player. The wagon and then dissolution of it is not specific to them. We're incapable of getting anyone over 4 votes it seems.

Okay tell me why she’s scum? What has been her agenda because scum!Ydrasse almost always has one.

[Past Present Future]

I have a kill list. It's Maid Cafe, T-Bone, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow, Enchant mostly.

Why is Maid Cafe and T-Bone on the kill list?
I get the others but those two don't exactly seem that scummy based off what I've read.
-Rubella

Considering the efforts MMR made to not appear they needed to not look like they knew Dangle lim would vanilaize them, I’d say this spews both Maid and T-Bone unlikely Lunars.

[Past Present Future]

Dawn 1 Final VC

MMR (8) Radical Rat, Past Present Future, Mathblade, furtiveglance, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow, Ydrasse , Firebringer, Unwnd, [Hammer]

Past Present Future (4) Scarfmanship, MMR, Toogeloo, Enchant,

Unwnd (2) Mastina, Yume

Not Voting (1) T-bone,

Deadline: 1 day*
With 15 alive it took 8 to eliminate.
Deadline was frozen for replacements.

It’s still my theory that at least one of the slots that jumped from us to MMR is probably scum, so maybe Dangle could be scum here? I can’t tell with Ydrasse but the way MMR over the top white knighted STD seems odd if they’re buddies and the arguing with FA doesn’t look partnery, so it has to amongst those three, I think.

Sorry, which three? DDS, and two others?

Ydrasse and Fire. They were all at the end of MMR wagon, so I think it’s likely at least one vote had to be a bus.

I went back looking to see if you had given a readslist after Math had asked everyone for one in case I had missed it but I couldn't find it...But when we talked about reads last time and I asked who you thought could be bussing and you said Ydrasse was in your PoE. What changed between Wednesday and today?

You will need to link or quote me on that. Well I looked at some Ydra games yesterday and her saying she wanted to die or something really confused me as to why she’d be doing that as town but if she really wanted to die, she wouldn’t be saying she’s a miselim and that wolves are voting her and you say there’s been resistance to her wagon but whom? I think it would have been extremely easy for Ydra to go over today, you disagree?

[Past Present Future]

That's a pretty soft affirmation of my slot though you have to admit. Not a strong stance at all.

Yeah, I suppose but I’m basing that mostly on the efforts they put into to not look like they knew Danle lim would vanillaize them. They initially voted them then backed off, so you’re right though that’s probably weak but they were playing strategically with their initial Dangle vote d1.

[Past Present Future]

As the sun begins to set, a ray of sunlight catches onto Mathblade and surrounds him. Likewise, as the moon rises the moonlight surrounds Dingle Dangle Scarecrow. They are surrounded by radiant and ethereal light.

Mathblade is blessed by the solar god Helius. He cannot be aligned with the Lunar Cult. If he was eliminated during this phase, the Solar Cult would have been vanilaised. The Solar Cult was the only group with access to this information.

Dingle Dangle Scarecrow is blessed by the lunar goddess Luna. They cannot be aligned with the Solar Cult. If they were eliminated during this phase, the Lunar Cult would have been vanilaised.

The Lunar Cult was the only group with access to this information.

@T-Bone

---

Thus begins Night 1! Send me anything you might do!

The deadline for the night is 1 day.

This timer will likewise freeze at 24 hours remaining until I receive a replacement for Maid Cafe.

[Past Present Future]

You will need to link or quote me on that. Well I looked at some Ydra games yesterday and her saying she wanted to die or something really confused me as to why she’d be doing that as town but if she really wanted to die, she wouldn’t be saying she’s a miselim and that wolves are voting her

I mean, does this make her townier or scummier?

and you say there’s been resistance to her wagon but whom? I think it would have been extremely easy for Ydra to go over today, you disagree?

Math & fire have been against a ydrasse wagon. DDS only voted ydrasse with great reluctance

And enchant didn't want to hop from meuh to ydrasse, for whatever reason

The wagon did not feel easy to me for a slot that hasn't done much

Though maybe part of the reason that every wagon is stalling is that we (or at least i) don't want to end the day with an empty Porkens slot, since i don't want to sit through another 5 day nightphase waiting for a replacement again

Yeah, I think - I think I’ve pretty much lost count now on how many replacements there’s been in this game but it’s probably an MS record, I’d bet. But if I had a really strong sr, I’d definitely be voting them but I don’t and I really want to do my damndest to try and hit scum today.

[Past Present Future]

That was at Junko.

I also gave Prof a chance to explain himself before I jumped into the deep end. He didn't adequately in my opinion because his first reaction was to pretend he didn't make the post. At that point I committed.

Do 6084 and 6085 not adequately explain?

I was commenting on Math saying I went at Prof fast when he said I would jump on him for going after a perceived scumslip. To contrast the speed I think I went vs the hypothetical speed Math would.go and I would jump on him.

I see

Still, i feel like those posts should allay your fears of a scumslip here

Oh was that what T-Bone was refrencing? Because I ISO’d Prof and couldn’t figure it out.

[Past Present Future]

Let's just do it then, yeah? Junko, Nancy, Math?

If it doesn’t get replaced soon I’d consider it.

[Past Present Future]

I agree Radical Rat should be the lim today.

The fake burn means Meuh is all but confirmed as not Solar to me, since I have a role-related result suggesting that Solar tried to target her during Noon 1.

I want to wait for PPF and Meuh to check in and see if they will confirm DDS' role.

I reveived a message in our hydra pt that Meuh checked us, nothing else.

And I agree, Porkens’ flip likely point to RR scum.

[Past Present Future]

I agree Radical Rat should be the lim today.

The fake burn means Meuh is all but confirmed as not Solar to me, since I have a role-related result suggesting that Solar tried to target her during Noon 1.

I want to wait for PPF and Meuh to check in and see if they will confirm DDS' role.

I reveived a message in our hydra pt that Meuh checked us, nothing else.

And I agree, Porkens’ flip likely point to RR scum.

I'll confirm when klicks awake but this was us

B

So, I still don’t think it’s Ydrasse. I think I could maybe wrong on Enchant then and idk who else? I think RR has to be scum though based off Porkens’ flip.

Rn, that’s where I’ll probably vote.

[Past Present Future]

I agree Radical Rat should be the lim today.

The fake burn means Meuh is all but confirmed as not Solar to me, since I have a role-related result suggesting that Solar tried to target her during Noon 1.

I want to wait for PPF and Meuh to check in and see if they will confirm DDS' role.

I reveived a message in our hydra pt that Meuh checked us, nothing else.

And I agree, Porkens’ flip likely point to RR scum.

I'll confirm when klicks awake but this was us

B

So, I still don’t think it’s Ydrasse. I think I could maybe wrong on Enchant then and idk who else? I think RR has to be scum though based off Porkens’ flip.

Rn, that’s where I’ll probably vote.

btw, can you confirm yourself now?

???

We already did that, I don’t know what you mean?

[Past Present Future]

We meant at this day start.

I meant after noon 1

why there's no 2 people with a message about burns?

if solar was thinking this far ahead they deserve rat's head imo

@PPF when? where?

I don’t understand what you’re asking me. Only message I ever got was at day start that Meuh visited me.

[Past Present Future]

I remember you had like some mechanical way to confirm yourself today or something like that

No, I said that our role is only confirmable at death. I think I explained that already.

[Past Present Future]

I remember you had like some mechanical way to confirm yourself today or something like that

No, I said that our role is only confirmable at death. I think I explained that already.

I was missremembering then, my bad

No problem, this game is so stagnant, it’s a wonder I barely remember anything from the first two days.

[Past Present Future]

so

Meuh checked PPF atunment
DDS illuminated PPF so they can verify Meuh's target
PPF claims being targeted by Meuh

correct?

Yes.

[Past Present Future]

Porkens was eliminated. Their role was

Spoiler:

Solar Hypnotist

Spoiler: Role PM

You are a

Solar Hypnotist

During the noon phase, you may target a player and give them one of the following messages at the end of the noon phase. These messages have no other effect.
"You have been burned!"
"Someone attempted to burn you, but it failed!"
"Your burn has been healed."
REDACTED

You win when your faction makes up half of the living players, and no members of the Lunar Cult are alive.

Noon 2 begins! Send me anything you might do!

Deadline: (expired on 2022-12-11 23:41:37)

I may not know much about Mech but the very fact that Porkens’ role exists, implies Solar is likely to have a burn mechanic no?

[Past Present Future]

Porkens was eliminated. Their role was

Spoiler:

Solar Hypnotist

Spoiler: Role PM

You are a

Solar Hypnotist

During the noon phase, you may target a player and give them one of the following messages at the end of the noon phase. These messages have no other effect.
"You have been burned!"
"Someone attempted to burn you, but it failed!"
"Your burn has been healed."
REDACTED

You win when your faction makes up half of the living players, and no members of the Lunar Cult are alive.

Noon 2 begins! Send me anything you might do!

Deadline: (expired on 2022-12-11 23:41:37)

I may not know much about Mech but the very fact that Porkens’ role exists, implies Solar is likely to have a burn mechanic no?

so they have a fake burner and a burner?

I’m saying that I think it would be kind of strange that his role exists if a burn mechanic doesn’t. Why wouldn’t his role just say kills then instead of burns? Why burns specifically?

That said, I’m extremely skeptical of RR’s claim regardless.

[Past Present Future]

Porkens was eliminated. Their role was

Spoiler:

Solar Hypnotist

Spoiler: Role PM

You are a

Solar Hypnotist

During the noon phase, you may target a player and give them one of the following messages at the end of the noon phase. These messages have no other effect.
"You have been burned!"
"Someone attempted to burn you, but it failed!"
"Your burn has been healed."
REDACTED

You win when your faction makes up half of the living players, and no members of the Lunar Cult are alive.

Noon 2 begins! Send me anything you might do!

Deadline: (expired on 2022-12-11 23:41:37)

I may not know much about Mech but the very fact that Porkens’ role exists, implies Solar is likely to have a burn mechanic no?

No. This role was designed to make us think they had an arsonist, and so that the person with this role could toss out fake messages. There are no burns or a burn mechanic.

pretty much this

Then why does Porkens has that role? If no burn mechanic does exist, then this is a really bad setup but I suppose it’s possible.

[Past Present Future]

Porkens was eliminated. Their role was

Spoiler:

Solar Hypnotist

Spoiler: Role PM

You are a

Solar Hypnotist

During the noon phase, you may target a player and give them one of the following messages at the end of the noon phase. These messages have no other effect.
"You have been burned!"
"Someone attempted to burn you, but it failed!"
"Your burn has been healed."
REDACTED

You win when your faction makes up half of the living players, and no members of the Lunar Cult are alive.

Noon 2 begins! Send me anything you might do!

Deadline: (expired on 2022-12-11 23:41:37)

I may not know much about Mech but the very fact that Porkens’ role exists, implies Solar is likely to have a burn mechanic no?

No. This role was designed to make us think they had an arsonist, and so that the person with this role could toss out fake messages. There are no burns or a burn mechanic.

Then why did I get burned?

You claim that. How do we know you’re telling the truth when you claimed to have received the exact same message that was in Porkens’ role pm?

[Past Present Future]

I just find your claim really suspicious, whether a burn mechanic actually exusts or not.

[Past Present Future]

It's not like we're flipping an innocent child, we're flipping a slot that could be scum. It's a slot that has never been active at any point of the game, why can't it be scum?

My issue is not that I don't think Porkens slot can be scum. In fact, if Porkens hadn't already requested replacement, I'd be fairly amenable to this wagon. Might even join it if deadline were still ticking. My issue is that I think it is lazy and wrong to eliminate a slot because they're not here. If there's an actual case beyond that, then it may or may not be worth eliminating anyway, though my preference would still at least be not to hammer until the replacement arrives and says whatever they're going to say. But for us to sit here and go "Welp, might as well eliminate the slot that won't talk back!" is unproductive and unfair.

Well I suppose I could be wrong then but I think this looks kind of suspicious.

[Past Present Future]

It's not like we're flipping an innocent child, we're flipping a slot that could be scum. It's a slot that has never been active at any point of the game, why can't it be scum?

My issue is not that I don't think Porkens slot can be scum. In fact, if Porkens hadn't already requested replacement, I'd be fairly amenable to this wagon. Might even join it if deadline were still ticking. My issue is that I think it is lazy and wrong to eliminate a slot because they're not here. If there's an actual case beyond that, then it may or may not be worth eliminating anyway, though my preference would still at least be not to hammer until the replacement arrives and says whatever they're going to say. But for us to sit here and go "Welp, might as well eliminate the slot that won't talk back!" is unproductive and unfair.

Well I suppose I could be wrong then but I think this looks kind of suspicious.

And then he claims burn target. It just seems kind of convenient don’t you think?

[Past Present Future]

PPF is attuned with the sun, therefore not aligned with the lunar cult.

With DDS confirmed not solar, this also means those two can’t be scum on the same team, which confirms that DDS did in fact provide that information to PPF and this isn’t coordinated.

I’m not scum on either team but I don’t see why Dangle would lie, plus Math flip.

[Past Present Future]

With that out of the way, I think that role existed to nerf mine. Giving me fake targets to heal, or to cause TvT counterclaiming if someone I didn't heal claimed to have been healed. It explains why I was left alone Noon 1, despite seemingly being a direct counter to Solar.

Also, I got burned last night, probably since Solar lost their ability to interfere with me. This does seem to confirm the kill as being distinct from the burn though, since Math is dead now.

so toogeloo slot knows you so much that they sent the message "your burn has been healed" to the same target you "healed"

No. I sent that real message to T-Bone, because T-Bone was actually attempted to be burned.

7298 is why. Don’t you find that at all suspicious CSF? Like sure I suppose it’s possible that RR could be telling the truth but 7298, idk. It’s possible I’m wrong but it’s just such a coincidence if they are.

[Past Present Future]

PPF is attuned with the sun, therefore not aligned with the lunar cult.

With DDS confirmed not solar, this also means those two can’t be scum on the same team, which confirms that DDS did in fact provide that information to PPF and this isn’t coordinated.

I’m not scum on either team but I don’t see why Dangle would lie, plus Math flip.

Can you elaborate on what you’re saying here? I don’t think I get it

Well I thought Dangle could be scum but they proved their role to me because I received that message and Math flipped town. Prior to that, they only claimed to have targeted slots that had received no messages if I understand their role clearly so I found it kind of unbelievable but I now have proof that their role is real, so I guess that’s not 100% clearing but I feel a lot better about them knowing that they weren’t bsing about their roleclaim.

Also MMR called both Math and Dangle traitors and Math flipped town and he lied about his role pm implying traitors.

[Past Present Future]

7298 is why. Don’t you find that at all suspicious CSF? Like sure I suppose it’s possible that RR could be telling the truth but 7298, idk. It’s possible I’m wrong but it’s just such a coincidence if they are.

No, Rat is scum, I'm almost certain of it. But how i reached that conclusion is:

1) toog flipped Solar hypnotist
2) burns aren't real -- scum came up with an elaborate gambit using Toog's role to help Rat fake claim burn doctor
3) Rat is scum because how can you be a burn doctor if burns aren't real

How you reached the same conclusion is not at all clear to me. Your thought process was:

1) Toog flipped Solar hypnotist
2) Solar may still have a burn ability
3) ???
4) Rat is scum because their claim is suss

I'm trying to understand what step 3 is in your head, because the chain of thought does not make sense to me right now.

I already explained all that. I think it’s just too convenient that RR tries to stop Porkens’ flip and just happens to claim they were burned. I think the fact that Porkens’ role exists implies the likelihood that a burn mechanic is possible. Why even give scum a role pm about burn messages if that mechanic doesn’t exist?

I don’t see why you think my thought process doesn’t make sense? I think it makes perfect sense, What aren’t you getting?

[Past Present Future]

It's not like we're flipping an innocent child, we're flipping a slot that could be scum. It's a slot that has never been active at any point of the game, why can't it be scum?

My issue is not that I don't think Porkens slot can be scum. In fact, if Porkens hadn't already requested replacement, I'd be fairly amenable to this wagon. Might even join it if deadline were still ticking. My issue is that I think it is lazy and wrong to eliminate a slot because they're not here. If there's an actual case beyond that, then it may or may not be worth eliminating anyway, though my preference would still at least be not to hammer until the replacement arrives and says whatever they're going to say. But for us to sit here and go "Welp, might as well eliminate the slot that won't talk back!" is unproductive and unfair.

Well I suppose I could be wrong then but I think this looks kind of suspicious.

It's not like we're flipping an innocent child, we're flipping a slot that could be scum. It's a slot that has never been active at any point of the game, why can't it be scum?

My issue is not that I don't think Porkens slot can be scum. In fact, if Porkens hadn't already requested replacement, I'd be fairly amenable to this wagon. Might even join it if deadline were still ticking. My issue is that I think it is lazy and wrong to eliminate a slot because they're not here. If there's an actual case beyond that, then it may or may not be worth eliminating anyway, though my preference would still at least be not to hammer until the replacement arrives and says whatever they're going to say. But for us to sit here and go "Welp, might as well eliminate the slot that won't talk back!" is unproductive and unfair.

Well I suppose I could be wrong then but I think this looks kind of suspicious.

And then he claims burn target. It just seems kind of convenient don’t you think?

With that out of the way, I think that role existed to nerf mine. Giving me fake targets to heal, or to cause TvT counterclaiming if someone I didn't heal claimed to have been healed. It explains why I was left alone Noon 1, despite seemingly being a direct counter to Solar.

Also, I got burned last night, probably since Solar lost their ability to interfere with me. This does seem to confirm the kill as being distinct from the burn though, since Math is dead now.

so toogeloo slot knows you so much that they sent the message "your burn has been healed" to the same target you "healed"

No. I sent that real message to T-Bone, because T-Bone was actually attempted to be burned.

7298 is why. Don’t you find that at all suspicious CSF? Like sure I suppose it’s possible that RR could be telling the truth but 7298, idk. It’s possible I’m wrong but it’s just such a coincidence if they are.

3 posts explaining 3. Why are you being obtuse?

[Past Present Future]

So in 7349, when you said you were skeptical of Ray's claim, you were referring to their claim that they were burned today and not their burn doctor claim?

Yeah, I did believe their initial doc claim but after them trying to stop Porkens’ lim and suddenly they claim to be burned. It just seems too convenient. I mean it’s possible I could be wrong and he’s actually telling the truth but just seems unlikely.

[Past Present Future]

PPF, I don't understand what you are saying either, sorry.
Mainly I don't understand why you think burns are real at all?

For us, the process was like csf said but also we hard sr the slot day one as like number 1a.

B

Because I think Porkens’ role pm doesn’t make a lot of sense to me if they’re fake. Sure it’s possible but why? Why does he have a role pm about fake burns? It’s possible it doesn’t exist but then you have the concept of sunburn right? So I just think it’s more likely than not.

[Past Present Future]

I already explained all that. I think it’s just too convenient that RR tries to stop Porkens’ flip and just happens to claim they were burned. I think the fact that Porkens’ role exists implies the likelihood that a burn mechanic is possible. Why even give scum a role pm about burn messages if that mechanic doesn’t exist?

I don’t see why you think my thought process doesn’t make sense? I think it makes perfect sense, What aren’t you getting?

I think your reasoning is just plausible

generally speaking, if one thinks that burns are real this game, i feel like it should make rat's claim more legitimate in your eyes. But maybe we're talking about different "claims"

As for why give scum such a role, it's probably to give them room to fake claim and sow confusion about factional abilities

I don’t know why it should have any bearing one way or the other.

[Past Present Future]

I don’t know why it should have any bearing one way or the other.

What shouldn't? The burn speculation? I'm fine dropping it

Why should it? Why can’t I think burns could possibly be real and still be skeptical of RR’s claim? I really don’t understand you.

[Past Present Future]

VOTE: Ydrasse

This is where I want my vote, I think.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Enchant

Maybe it's just something straightforward like rr/firebringer for solar and ydrasse/enchant for lunar

Toogeloo wouldn’t have had any idea who Lunar is, so I don’t understand how his votes on Enchant/Ydrasse mean anything?

[Past Present Future]

Porkens was eliminated. Their role was

Spoiler:

Solar Hypnotist

Spoiler: Role PM

You are a

Solar Hypnotist

During the noon phase, you may target a player and give them one of the following messages at the end of the noon phase. These messages have no other effect.
"You have been burned!"
"Someone attempted to burn you, but it failed!"
"Your burn has been healed."
REDACTED

You win when your faction makes up half of the living players, and no members of the Lunar Cult are alive.

Noon 2 begins! Send me anything you might do!

Deadline: (expired on 2022-12-11 23:41:37)

I may not know much about Mech but the very fact that Porkens’ role exists, implies Solar is likely to have a burn mechanic no?

Hard disagree. I believe it implies the opposite. 'Hypnotist' implies the burning message is a complete fabrication. No one else has claimed to get burned. I don't think burning is a thing that exists at all and we've got no evidence otherwise.

I guess you have a point. If it does exist with that name, it would be bizarre. I hadn’t considered that. I was basing on the specificity of the burn word and not really thinking about the role name.

[Past Present Future]

Welcome Magician!

No deaths again... worried about conversion

I think that's a real concern at this point.

~Titus

[Past Present Future]

Based on the VC quoted, I could go Ydrasse.

VOTE: Ydrasse

[Past Present Future]

Yeah... narrowing down who could be lunar, it's not looking super great for T-bone. Do you think T-bone/Ydrasse can be a team? If not, then is Enchant just like always a good lim here then?

I don't have any real reason to

discount

T-Bone/Ydrasse. But there's not much to work with there. T-Bone's interactions with Ydrasse don't really exist (and that's mostly because Ydrasse's interactions with almost everyone don't exist), whereas he defends Enchant quite a bit.

Enchant is certainly our preferred elimination today.

Why not flip Ydrasse first?

[Past Present Future]

UNVOTE:

I’m not feeling Ydrasse wagon. She was also demotivated in Squid game and I was wrongly convinced she was scum in that.

[Past Present Future]

Do you think Yume replaces out after Mastina irrespective of alignment? I guess that’s possible? I need to see more from Enchant today.

I find it really weird that there hasn’t been a single death so far during dusk, so I wonder what’s going on with that. They must have some kind of negative utility but no clue what that could possibly be.

[Past Present Future]

@Magician

Can you give an analysis/read on Dingle Slot please, I think they might be a Lunar Member.

They confirmed their role or otherwise I’d have no confirmation that Meuh visited me, so we know for sure their role is real.

[Past Present Future]

Intent to vote MMR which will likely result in hammer as people said they are sheeping me will move

Get last thoughts in soon. Probably 30 minutes ish til I vote

This hardly qualifies as intent to hammer. Standard protocol is generally 24 hours.
~Mumps

What

What I am saying is that this is merely MathBlade posturing. If he truly wanted to give us time to give final reads, he would give at least 24 hours.

Anyway, my reads (which are totally not vetted by my partners) is something like PPF, mastina, and MathBlade are all scum. Yume, furtive, Dingle Dangle, Enchant, and T-Bone are town. No opinion on everyone else.
~Mumps

And eh.
I feel like DDS chaging votes could be an attempt to create a stalemate.
-Rubella

Scarf and T-Bone are Town.
I think that Math and DDS could be Traitors.
Final reads.
-Rubella

Like this hydra dissonance is so weird. And we have 0 evidence of this.

[Past Present Future]

Us too, with PPF/prof being in like our reconsidered poe. If there's conversion actually happening, we probably need to look wider.

Klicks already said it but I think actually day one wasn't that bad: it was just a lot of town shooting at each other, which tracks with what actually happened. I don't think it's at all off that everyone piled on mastina: mastina is a threat and also, mis limable, so why not? It's ++ utility for both scum teams. Especially when one scum team has it as an alternative to losing a player day one. The fact she didn't get limmed is a good point, I should go back and check how people got off the wagon. It was a shit wagon.



I think the not voting pile there is also interesting, cat

B

We were very clearly trying to stop Mastina elim from going through. It’s extremely clear that RR and Maid wanted it to go through, so I think if anything we should be lock cleared from that.

[Past Present Future]

I think it's odd that mastina didn't get limmed if both teams were pushing there. That suggests that town were playing somewhat decently day 1... but given how day 1 really went down, it doesn't really read that way to me? Day 1 was a bit of a shitshow

Mastina was being defended rather hard. I can see a world where a bunch of town correctly townread mastina while a bunch of scum thought they could get away with a lim on her.

I'm not married to that being exactly what happened, but I'm certainly open to it as a possibility. I think there were at least 5 scum on mastina D1.

Exactly, so how you still have us in your PoE makes 0 sense to me.

[Past Present Future]

Meh, after having reread good swaths of the game, i still want to lim in enchant/ydrasse/firebringer

If Enchant doesn't get limmed then Ydrasse is the counterwagon I'm happiest with. I'd much rather solve for Enchant though, because I think he's very likely just scum and his flip would also say a lot about the game state.

But Ydrasse never voted Mastina. I don’t understand you guys’ thought process here. You say that scum was hard trying to push though Mastina wagon and Ydrasse never voted her. So you’re really not making much sense?

[Past Present Future]

VC 1.0.13



Mastina (7) Frozen Angel, Mathblade, professotic, MMR, T-Bone, Radical Rat, Maid Cafe, [E-2]

scarfmanship (4) Past Present Future, Bunnyonce, furtiveglance, Ydrasse

Enchant (1) Dingle Dangle Scarecrow
professotic (1) Mastina,
Frozen Angel (1) Radja
Mathblade (1) Yume
Dingle Dangle Scarecrow (1) Scarfmanship

Not Voting (1) Enchant


With 17 Alive it takes 9 to Eliminate
Deadline: (expired on 2022-11-01 13:00:17)

I still think mastina needs to be the elimination today.

I do not agree with T-Bone (p-edit: Or Yume) that MathBlade isn't getting killed tonight, or at least not that it's guaranteed he doesn't.

But more than that, I'm pretty damn sure we've caught scum, and I don't feel inclined to just let scum walk away on the gamble that we hit another scum instead. Though I do have an inkling of where I'd vote if I must...

Also worth consideration is that if we're right on mastina, and we flip her, we get semi-confirmation that it is six scum we're looking for, and that information is very valuable for hunting potential partners.

RR was really hellbent on pushing Mastina through d1. I think they were really terrified of her. I think Ydrasse looks pretty good from this VC.

[Past Present Future]

Bella says she lightly scumreads PPF's play generally and has seen Titus do much better. She's fine with PPF being town but doesn't like it
It's like an inverted version of her T-Bone take actually. She really doesn't want T-Bone to be scum because she consistently likes his takes and sees him as a voice of reason. But she can see that that's potentially a bias she has rather than valid scumhunting reasoning

Has Bella forgotten that Titus tried to get Roden limmed in LOST and I had to spend the entire game fighting off scumreads on us because of that?

[Past Present Future]

We can just do Enchant today. I'm not opposed, and think they're almost equally likely to flip lunar or solar based on how Rat was protecting them

Can you link/quote those posts for me please?

[Past Present Future]

I reread tbones iso yesterday, and while i think his professotic scumslip push didn't make sense, i still think he's town holistically. Besides, the only scum motivation i can think of for derailing the thread in such a manner is if he's exactly scum with DDS, and i think DDS has towned it up a lot since that day

I still don’t understand why he thought that? It’s been awhile since I read that so someone will need to refresh my memory but I never understood why he viewed it as a scumslip.

[Past Present Future]

Meh, after having reread good swaths of the game, i still want to lim in enchant/ydrasse/firebringer

If Enchant doesn't get limmed then Ydrasse is the counterwagon I'm happiest with. I'd much rather solve for Enchant though, because I think he's very likely just scum and his flip would also say a lot about the game state.

But Ydrasse never voted Mastina. I don’t understand you guys’ thought process here. You say that scum was hard trying to push though Mastina wagon and Ydrasse never voted her. So you’re really not making much sense?

????

I really don't know how to respond to this. I feel like you're reading what we're posting, taking away some slightly-morphed surface-level takes from what we're saying, and then finding things that contradict with your interpretation of what we're saying.

It's very clear that RR and Maid Cafe were heavily invested in mastina getting voted over RR.
That doesn't stop Ydrasse from being Lunar.
That

also

doesn't stop Ydrasse from being Solar because, as discussed earlier...

I don't think we're looking at bussing at all on this wagon. If we are, it'd have to be like... Ydrasse putting a vote on the end of RR's wagon because RR already intends to fakeclaim out of the situation.

Ydrasse is clearly very detached from the game regardless of her alignment and I have no issues with her not being on the mastina wagon from that perspective.

Regardless, if Ydrasse is scum at all, I find her to be more likely Lunar than Solar.

Okay then what do you think I’m missing? You said that scum wanted Mastina elimmed and Ydrasse was on the CW to Mastina.

Yeah that part is true but she was also detached in Squid game too. You should probably ISO her in FL v Hectic where she was detached but actively doing nothing to try to progress the game. She has done more here than in Squid game and definitely more than in FL v Hectic. I was looking over some past Ydra scum games and I thought she sounded different than she did here. I do agree with you that it would be nice if she were more engaged in the game so I could be more confident on her slot.

[Past Present Future]

VC 1.0.13



Mastina (7) Frozen Angel, Mathblade, professotic, MMR, T-Bone, Radical Rat, Maid Cafe, [E-2]

scarfmanship (4) Past Present Future, Bunnyonce, furtiveglance, Ydrasse

Enchant (1) Dingle Dangle Scarecrow
professotic (1) Mastina,
Frozen Angel (1) Radja
Mathblade (1) Yume
Dingle Dangle Scarecrow (1) Scarfmanship

Not Voting (1) Enchant


With 17 Alive it takes 9 to Eliminate
Deadline: (expired on 2022-11-01 13:00:17)

I still think mastina needs to be the elimination today.

I do not agree with T-Bone (p-edit: Or Yume) that MathBlade isn't getting killed tonight, or at least not that it's guaranteed he doesn't.

But more than that, I'm pretty damn sure we've caught scum, and I don't feel inclined to just let scum walk away on the gamble that we hit another scum instead. Though I do have an inkling of where I'd vote if I must...

Also worth consideration is that if we're right on mastina, and we flip her, we get semi-confirmation that it is six scum we're looking for, and that information is very valuable for hunting potential partners.

RR was really hellbent on pushing Mastina through d1. I think they were really terrified of her. I think Ydrasse looks pretty good from this VC.

These quotes are from two very different points in D1. You have to consider these things in their context for them to have meaning

Solar have no strong reason to have 3v0 on mastina vs Scarfmanship (assuming Scarf isn't also Solar lol)

What a lot of people aren't processing is that RR and Maid Cafe were actually the

6th and 7th

votes on the original mastina wagon that went to L-1, before RR was even a wagon. RR and Maid Cafe were at the front of mastina's wagon against RR because they never unvoted mastina while almost everyone else did.

Meanwhile, Ydrasse is in her own little world during all of this. It's very difficult to get anything alignment-indicative out of Ydrasse's voting patterns when Ydrasse has been playing significantly out of the norm for analysis standards.

Can you explain what you mean by this last paragraph, especially the last sentence?

[Past Present Future]

We can just do Enchant today. I'm not opposed, and think they're almost equally likely to flip lunar or solar based on how Rat was protecting them

Can you link/quote those posts for me please?

Spoiler:

To rephrase, I guess it wouldn't be improbable for any person on the player list to be target by scum for any reason, but from what I personally viewed yesterday, you did not make yourself a big target. So while I guess it it's possible to see you getting burned, I find it odd that not only did you get burned, but just so happened to be protected from the burn as well when there are definitely bigger persona's in the game.

RR, tell me your reads?

You said you didn't want to protect Math because you thought he was already, and you didn't want to protect Meuh/mastina because you think they are scum as well, but I don't remember you ever even talking about T-Bone, let alone town reading them. Why not the next more vocal players who shared your opinions, like unwnd or furtiveglance?

Going into the night, I thought unwnd and furtive had a high chance of being scum due to their stubborn insistence on mastina and refusal to engage with the active guilty claim until the very end of the day when all other options had been exhausted.

This was particularly concerning from furtive, doing a hard 180 on mastina.

General readswise, T-Bone and MathBlade are probably my highest townreads. The night's results reaffirm T-Bone, and raise up Meuh and CSF. DDS gets townbinned more as a side-effect of townreading MathBlade, but they're there regardless. Enchant looks pretty Town to me as well. Scarf and Ydrasse give me Town vibes, but it's purely vibe based.

You (Toogeloo) and Firebringer are dead null for me. Replacements and your respective low effort styles make it a difficult read.

PPF, unwnd, furtiveglance all look like scum to me.

Assuming I'm correct on all my townreads, it's a feasible solution to just lump Toogeloo/Firebringer into the scum pile, but I am not at all confident enough to do that yet. I'd rather flip my actual scumreads and go from there.

Enchant push bad

Enchant is very difficult to make concrete reads on one way or another. Sometimes you can catch him slipping up, but usually it's just vibe based, and right now he's got Town vibes to me. Not something I can really put into less ambiguous words, sorry. But I won't vote him today.

T-Bone
Professotic
JunkoChan
CSF
Meuh
Enchant
Porkens et al.
PPF
Ydrasse
Firebringer
MathBlade/DDS

Enchant is the lowest one on the list that I'd consider to be a townread.

My mind hasn't changed. DDS, MathBlade, Ydrasse, Firebringer, PPF are all better targets, because, excepting Ydrasse, they've all actually done scummy things and have evidence pointing toward them, and, including Ydrasse, they're all actually here and able to defend themselves if they choose to. I HAVE been pushing for DDS, who I've made no secret of being my preference today.

I am willing to compromise. I am not willing to compromise on a slot that literally cannot play the game, UNLESS someone has an actual reason to suspect they're scum.

Hard to tell if Rat was protecting a partner or if Rat was buddying Enchant (if you recall, Enchant did not hammer Rat on Day 1)

Okay so.

I can remove burns on people, and if I target someone on the same phase they would receive a burn, the burn is blocked. My target will be informed if a burn is removed or blocked successfully.

I have not been told what a burn actually is, but I assume it has to do with the nonstandard factional abilities. Solar Cult makes the most sense to be burning people to me in that case.

Was that before or after this post?

[Past Present Future]

My mind hasn't changed. DDS, MathBlade, Ydrasse, Firebringer, PPF are all better targets, because, excepting Ydrasse, they've all actually done scummy things and have evidence pointing toward them, and, including Ydrasse, they're all actually here and able to defend themselves if they choose to. I HAVE been pushing for DDS, who I've made no secret of being my preference today.

I am willing to compromise. I am not willing to compromise on a slot that literally cannot play the game, UNLESS someone has an actual reason to suspect they're scum.

I mean rereading this post I actually think this makes Ydrasse look not like Solar tbh lol

Fixed

It’s a weird post from RR, having Ydrasse as a preferred lim but then saying there’s pretty much no basis for that but he had Math higher than her in his preferred lim order so that’s even stranger.

[Past Present Future]

My mind hasn't changed. DDS, MathBlade, Ydrasse, Firebringer, PPF are all better targets, because, excepting Ydrasse, they've all actually done scummy things and have evidence pointing toward them, and, including Ydrasse, they're all actually here and able to defend themselves if they choose to. I HAVE been pushing for DDS, who I've made no secret of being my preference today.

I am willing to compromise. I am not willing to compromise on a slot that literally cannot play the game, UNLESS someone has an actual reason to suspect they're scum.

I mean rereading this post I actually think this makes Ydrasse look not like Solar tbh lol

Fixed

It’s a weird post from RR, having Ydrasse as a preferred lim but then saying there’s pretty much no basis for that but THEY
had Math higher than her in his preferred lim order so that’s even stranger.

I have to stop doing that, sorry RR.

[Past Present Future]

Yes you can

What are your current reads?

Also @Enchant, tr anyone besides T-Bone?

[Past Present Future]

I have this small tinfoil and world in my mind off.

PPF - Solar
T-Bone/Mastina - Lunar and I have been wrong on Mastina here.


But I don’t think that’s it but it’s a tinfoil I have.

That fight Mastina had with unwnd, I just don’t see scum!Mastina doing that. She also got extremely emotional like that in Doubles and in some game - name currently escapes me - where she and RC really got into it and both got force replaced. Both were town in that. I said and have said since d1 that I’m extremely good at tone reading Mastina. She was scum in a game with me and I really felt that her AtE was overblown and insincere in that and I read it as genuine here.

Also, I’ve been on the receiving end of a scum!Mastina pocket and she sounded like a complete robot in that game. You can look it up, it’s an old Schadd Mystery Box of Silver game I believe. I was in a hydra with Aristophanes and because I hadn’t had that much experience playing with her, we were fooled by her and wrongly defended her and we got miselimmed right after she flipped red despite us having a conditional guilty on her buddy and dead town confitowning us.

[Past Present Future]

I think there's merit to Enchant and Ydrasse as Lunar fwiw
It would certainly explain their joint defeated play today

Yeah i don't really expect ydrasse to be out of the poe anytime soon

I'm mostly just commenting on random things while i wait for other people to do stuff atp

I really wish I had either yours or Dangle’s confidence in either. I would prefer for both of them to hopefully make some reads and that should be helpful. Enchant only having one tr isn’t great imo.

[Past Present Future]

Which slots are you still sorting? A lot of my reads are PoE and finding solid reasons to town read the rest

Yeah, pretty much same. Enchant, Ydra, Fire, T-Bone for rn.

[Past Present Future]

After consideration i think i don't know who to trust

While i realise you can botch your claim as town, but failing to tell "i am informed about scum being my double" is ridicolous and sounds like something you make up afterwards.

Therefore, i am more inclined to vote MMR now.
UNVOTE:

Why you didn't say you was informed

I'm pretty sure someone else claimed to be astrologer as well but don't remember who/when

MMT.

Imagine you are Town Astrologer informed about fact there's scum with role you have, you see someone claiming Limited Town Astrologer and you doing nothing with it.

6 eyes

Sherlock

I think we should keep both Mastina and MMR alive tbh.

Compounding on that
There’s no evidence of a rolestopper/blocker of any kind so by that logic MMR/PPF contains a scum.
Ergo if everyone should be voting in Mastina/MMR
And everyone should be voting in MMR/PPF

Everyone should be voting MMR no?

no

So this is what’s confusing me about Enchant he calls out MMR on botched fakeclaim but then disagrees with Math that they should be the lim. So I don’t know what to make of that. It makes sense of course that he unvoted us but then if you think the informed part of their role is bs wrt to Mastina, then why would you be opposed tolimming them? That’s the part that’s not making sense to me. I just don’t understand this pivot.

[Past Present Future]

@Magician

Tbh.
I don’t feel confident in Enchant nor Ydrass.
What’s your alternative?

I don’t either, which is why I’m struggling so hard with this. And it’s Ydrasse with an “e” btw.

[Past Present Future]

Btw, I’m extremely confident on my Meuh tr and not just because of Mastina.

[Past Present Future]

Fun!

unwnd is attuned with the sun

. Therefore not aligned with the lunar cult.
I vaguely recall people saying unwnd was weird with the wagon on the person who just flipped lunar? I saw that on the last page. I picked unwd cause of that + Mastina having unwnd low on reads.

Yup. Aside from that tidbit I got on dusk 1,

on noon 1 I checked Unwnd, who was lunar attuned

. On noon 2, I checked PPF, who is solar attuned (therefore not aligned with the lunar cult). That's the info I've got so far.

hm

VOTE: Meuh

I haven't read most of the thread, but that's worth a vote. Nancy can change.

VOTE: Meuh

~Titus

[Past Present Future]

UNVOTE:

I haven’t decided who I’m voting but not that.

[Past Present Future]

@Ydrasse, you must have some reads on the current gamestate. Any ones other than Enchant?

[Past Present Future]

enchant wagon bad
ydrasse wagon better

I think they’re both bad.

I personally wouldn’t mind Dingle or CSF.

But Dangle confirmed their role. They said if you get targeted you get a mod message telling you who and we also know that RR lied, so not understanding this.

And we know now that Solar has an nk right, so I think CSF role sounds believable.

And I think I’m pretty much cleared from Mathblade not being targeted at noon 1 because no way Titus wouldn’t have killed him if we were scum here.

[Past Present Future]

The most likely theory I landed on is that Lunar are priming people & will maybe activate their primed targets at some point like an arsonist does, but I don't know - even this theory I'm not particularly confident in.

If this is indeed true, then I'll be more suspicious of Meuh because Lunar have not targeted her in spite of mastina fullclaiming on Day 1. But again, idk wtf is really going on with Lunar & mastina has some associatives with both flipped factions that make her slot look good

I really don’t understand what Lunar’s doing, so maybe but I still think d1 wagon’s point to Meuh town because 3 flipped scum were on it.

RR, Maid and MMR were all hard gunning for Mastina, so I think Mastina d1 wagon is probably suss. Is it likely that MMR was the only lunar on that?

It looked to me that both teams wanted her dead.

[Past Present Future]

A reminder that discussing future games with threats/promises based on how events unfold in this game is considered OGI and is against site rules. This is an official warning to mastina and if there is another such infraction/ continuation of this one I will be forced to replace the slot.

Spoiler: Offending Post

(The irony is not lost on me that normal mastina would see the post I just made as scum, believe me. I am quite aware of the sheer irony of how I would be pushing myself for making that post, in spite of me knowing that it’s town, and that me talking about it would make me even more sure it came from scum. The likes of Roden are probably laughing their asses off at the karmic irony.)

So the thing you maybe don't see is that you were already doing it.

I'm going to remind you of my philosophy to scum hunting, not so that we can argue, but so that maybe you could see what I see. Not every post is alignment indicative. Most posts a player makes are NAI, and what separates town and scum is finding the few that are.

Here's what I clocked very early from the game, before you described what you described in 1097. It is clear to me you have a vision of what town!Mastina needs to look like, and you are trying to make every post you make conform to that vision. If you are town, I would say needlessly. But you kinda voiced what I was observing all along.

What separates this for me from being something that is NAI, is your post #729 where you cite your first two posts of the game as some part of your master plan to catch scum. And I think you know what I know, that you were trying to play this up as something town!Mastina does. I don't know if you believe it for real. But I think you believe that other people would believe it, and that's why you made those parts of #729.

Normally I wouldn't sit here and explain to you why you're scum, because one way or another you know the truth. But maybe if we're to salvage the game in case you are town, considering another point of view on you might be helpful.

To me, #729 and some other bits of Mastina's posting shows me that she is trying to play the part of town!Mastina rather than be a town player. I think it's well documented how much Mastina believes in meta, and I think she believes in it so much that she feels forced to try and project her meta onto her gameplay. This isn't necessarily scum-indicative on its own, I think Mastina would do it to some extent as town. But from my point of view it crossed the line of town!Mastina needing to play a certain way to scum!Mastina needing everyone else to see a certain vision of her play.

Hopefully that bit of insight helps others too who are not sure what to think about Mastina.

This would be a good point if not for one crucial factor you leave out.

Living up to the concept of mastina is not exclusive to scumastina. (That, aside from how scumastina genuinely doesn't care to try to be town mastina, because scumastina has her own style which works in spite of being night/day different. Scumastina doesn’t even try to look like town mastina, because she knows that town mastina is a liability to try and mimic. I don't need to look like town as scum, nor do I need to effort nor force an elimination. All I need to do is not be the default elimination for a day, and let the town eliminate town. I don't need to push town, nor power town S scum. Because just the bare minimum works better as scum.)

I have a strong drive to live up to the ideal of mastina as town, too. Because mastina is an IDEA, a CONCEPT.
mastina is a philosophy.

The philosophy is different as different alignments. Scumastina, find the easiest least effort path to victory where I can be the laziest.

Town mastina, to be a charismatic unwavering force of nature. Unrelenting. Never giving up on true beliefs, and holding plenty of them.

I always feel the pressure of trying to live up to the expectation, and usually I do.

But this he'll week, I just can't.

I give up on being mastina.

Oh worth mentioning:
You're right about one thing tho:

I know my meta best.

I know me better than everyone else.

When I am scum, I know exactly how scum I am. I know that I am not playing to my towngame. I might--justifiably--feel like certain aspects of my play are dead on mimicking my towngame, but while I might fake a post saying as much, no, I never truly believe that I have perfected a town-mastina guise as scumastina. Not only would doing so be detrimental even if I succeeded, but also the task is literally impossible.

You cannot mimic the full package of my towngame. It’s literally impossible. I fundamentally think differently as town versus scum. Language use, emotions, everything is night and day different. (We suspect that it’s literally different facets playing, but since we haven't had a scumgame since our plurality breakthrough, we wouldn't know yet. We'll have to rand scum to actually test that.)

If it's quite literally an entirely different person playing when town vs. Scum, then that person cannot fully pretend to be the other. (Which is why we don’t actually try.)

So with that said:

We know our meta, and thus, we know that we were not outside of it. In fact, we're doubling down on this statement:

This is the towniest game that we have EVER played in our entire mafia career. We have NEVER been this more clearly town. EVER.

I can't manage to be mastina right now, but that doesn't change how I still know what my meta is, and how I was in my town meta more clearly than I have ever been before. Literally the towniest game I have EVER had.


So l

et me reiterate:
If I am eliminated, then EVERY town player has their reading rights on me revoked PERMANENTLY.
My not being able to be mastina doesn't remove that I was still clearly town in spite of struggling to be mastina. In fact it's quite literally the exact opposite.

So I will quote this in EVERY future game you play with me in whereyou so much as HINT at having me south as null.
I. Will. NOT. Let. You. Forget.

Because I am NOT having an "off game".
I'm not able to be mastina, but I AM able to be clearly town anyway.
This IS my town self.
Try to fucking pretend it wasn't as much as you'd like. I know myself better than you do. I know my meta better than you do. So I know that I was playing to my town meta here.
And thus, future you has ZERO wiggling room to claim otherwise.

If you can't see that I'm town here, you can't fucking see that I am town in ANY game. PERIOD. Because if you can't see me as town in the towniest game that I have ever had, you can't see me as town at all.

This is the post that I have trouble seeing scum!Mastina making.

[Past Present Future]

*inhale* ok

enchant, csf, ppf can be town
enchant for doing all that aggregating of info, normally i think doing something like that is +wolf because it's busy work that looks towny but for enchant i think it's probably just trying to help.
csf for mech stuff, protective
ppf i think is town for the progression on me, i feel like the slot would have arbitrarily found a way to swap onto me a long time before but they've spent a long time wibble-wobbling around me, defending me some, and ultimately ended up on me but it doesn't seem like it's a really happy or firm vote that's being... paraded? like lamisty "i do this thing" which i expect from the active head

with a grain of salt, professor could be town
the salt is bcuz i dont think ive seen drap's wolf game but this is the town game? loud and insistent on what he believes and like, demanding to be listened to and followed i.e. "we aren't doing this!"
i think this is something that should be meta-checked though if anyone wants to do the work because i am uh. not doign it this game sorry lol my mind is mushy

I don’t think scum!Ydrasse makes these posts. I think she’s probably more likely to push Enchant. Think I’m going to take another look at Fire, T-Bone, Magician.

Mastina was hard convinced on FA!scum. She never really explained this and while I really like Junko and Magician, Scarf was hella wolfy.

And Fire claimed an inno on Junko iirc despite claiming vt.

I really think scum wanted Mastina dead and I will die on thar hill.

[Past Present Future]

I'm probably overreacting.

Mastina is a slot I'd like to sort later. I think this is just what she does and if it's entirely random she's scum but if it makes some sense she's probably town. I am leaning toward the latter.

I don't think that you are overreacting.

138 definitely reads like shade, to me, coming from FA.
It's completely understandable and NAI to not understand the mech in a closed setup.
VOTE: FA
-Rubella

Hmmm . . . gth looks like possible STD pocket and possible FA distancing? MMR was extremely involved in. FA/STD interactions.

[Past Present Future]

Intent to vote MMR which will likely result in hammer as people said they are sheeping me will move

Get last thoughts in soon. Probably 30 minutes ish til I vote

This hardly qualifies as intent to hammer. Standard protocol is generally 24 hours.
~Mumps

What

What I am saying is that this is merely MathBlade posturing. If he truly wanted to give us time to give final reads, he would give at least 24 hours.

Anyway, my reads (which are totally not vetted by my partners) is something like PPF, mastina, and MathBlade are all scum. Yume, furtive, Dingle Dangle, Enchant, and T-Bone are town. No opinion on everyone else.
~Mumps

Scarf and T-Bone are Town.
I think that Math and DDS could be Traitors.
Final reads.
-Rubella

In particular, I feel like Firebringer's vote feels like he's trying to secure a mislim before the replacements get a chance to express a opinion on us.
Also, he didn't seem to express intent to hammer.
-Rubella

I’m going to reread Scarf again. I thought that his DDS push was kind of strange and he even threatened me if I didn’t vote Mastina but I liked Junko and Magician seems fine but I never really understood the Scarf trs. And there was also this weird thing with Scarf wanting furtive limmed but not be on his wagon, which is something I did when I was scum in Undertale.

Like why say that you want a slot limmed but not be on it?

[Past Present Future]

We have 2260 right now in the bank.

Now that a number has been said, I think fire should claim all gold numbers. Starting numbers, how much spent on investments each night, how much of a return they got.

Like, now that a hard number has been said, the big secret it kind if out imo, and he should out the whole accounting log to be scrutinized

dead thread luke wanted an audit of me.
Listen this would require me even tracking all the money spent.
I would have to be like a real life accountant to do that. Which I am. But thats my day job. I am here for memes

Lol Fire, you need to stop doing this. I got in trouble on MU for doing that. I was in two games at the same time and mixed them up. But you’ve done this more than once now.

[Past Present Future]

We have 2260 right now in the bank.

Now that a number has been said, I think fire should claim all gold numbers. Starting numbers, how much spent on investments each night, how much of a return they got.

Like, now that a hard number has been said, the big secret it kind if out imo, and he should out the whole accounting log to be scrutinized

dead thread luke wanted an audit of me.
Listen this would require me even tracking all the money spent.
I would have to be like a real life accountant to do that. Which I am. But thats my day job. I am here for memes

Lol Fire, you need to stop doing this. I got in trouble on MU for doing that. I was in two games at the same time and mixed them up. But you’ve done this more than once now.

I mean the game is over so it doesn’t matter.

Oh well I wouldn’t know.

[Past Present Future]

VC 1.0.12



Mastina (8) Frozen Angel, Mathblade, professotic, MMR, T-Bone, Radical Rat, Maid Cafe, Enchant [E-1!]

scarfmanship (2) Furtiveglance, Past Present Future

Enchant (1) Dingle Dangle Scarecrow
professotic (1) Mastina,
Frozen Angel (1) Radja
Mathblade (1) Yume
Radical Rat (1) Bunnyonce
Dingle Dangle Scarecrow (1) Scarfmanship

Not Voting (1) Save the Dragons,


With 17 Alive it takes 9 to Eliminate
Deadline: 4 Days*

*Deadline will not officially decrease below 4 days until replacements are found.

VC 1.0.13



Mastina (7) Frozen Angel, Mathblade, professotic, MMR, T-Bone, Radical Rat, Maid Cafe, [E-2]

scarfmanship (4) Past Present Future, Bunnyonce, furtiveglance, Ydrasse

Enchant (1) Dingle Dangle Scarecrow
professotic (1) Mastina,
Frozen Angel (1) Radja
Mathblade (1) Yume
Dingle Dangle Scarecrow (1) Scarfmanship

Not Voting (1) Enchant


With 17 Alive it takes 9 to Eliminate
Deadline: (expired on 2022-11-01 13:00:17)

I think Enchant jumping off here is a good look, as is Ydrasse being on the cw. But especially Ydrasse I think. Ydrasse being on Scarf here, the cw looks pretty good I think because it’s so extremely obvious to me that scum wanted Mastina limmed d1.

I think this looks really good for Ydrasse.

[Past Present Future]

I’m going to reread Scarf again.

I thought that his DDS push was kind of strange

and he even threatened me if I didn’t vote Mastina but I liked Junko and Magician seems fine but I never really understood the Scarf trs. And there was also this weird thing with Scarf wanting furtive limmed but not be on his wagon, which is something I did when I was scum in Undertale.

Like why say that you want a slot limmed but not be on it?

Does Lunar put that much attention on DDS on day 1?

As the sun begins to set, a ray of sunlight catches onto Mathblade and surrounds him. Likewise, as the moon rises the moonlight surrounds Dingle Dangle Scarecrow. They are surrounded by radiant and ethereal light.

Mathblade is blessed by the solar god Helius. He cannot be aligned with the Lunar Cult. If he was eliminated during this phase, the Solar Cult would have been vanilaised. The Solar Cult was the only group with access to this information.

Dingle Dangle Scarecrow is blessed by the lunar goddess Luna. They cannot be aligned with the Solar Cult. If they were eliminated during this phase, the Lunar Cult would have been vanilaised. The Lunar Cult was the only group with access to this information.

---

Thus begins Night 1! Send me anything you might do!

The deadline for the night is 1 day.

This timer will likewise freeze at 24 hours remaining until I receive a replacement for Maid Cafe.

Dangle was never in serious jeopardy, so maybe it means nothing but knowing that MMR also voted Dangle, I don’t see why you think that should be clearing?

[Past Present Future]

Dangle was never in serious jeopardy, so maybe it means nothing but knowing that MMR also voted Dangle, I don’t see why you think that should be clearing?

Because that was an RVS vote, and another thing is that MMR never tried to get others to also vote DDS

So maybe they could be Solar then? Idk but we know MMR is groupscum. Maybe take another look at Enchant?

I think scum is playing extremely well both Lunar and Solar, so I’m really trying to figure it out and I can pretty much see arguments for most of the playerlist.

[Past Present Future]

PPF what was your flavor?

Town beloved Princess why?

[Past Present Future]

And Titus full claimed already. I don’t like Enchant suggesting we haven’t.

It’s in our ISO, look it up.

[Past Present Future]

Oh i didn't think that was actually your role name

It is.

[Past Present Future]

Alright i looked on chart and that's how my readlist looks like.

Let's go with assumption that 3 are in each team.
It means among 10 ppl are 3 evil.


Meuh - Town/Lunar
Professotic - Evil?
Dingle Dangle Scarecrow - Lunar/Town
Magician - Lunar/Solar/Town
Past Present Future - Solar?
Cat Scratch Fever - Lunar/Town
Enchant. Town
Firebringer
Ydrasse
T-Bone


Now i start poking all evidences:

Meuh

All Meuh results are Sun. Of course: If you are Lunar, then giving Sun results is always safe. If you give Moon result and person turns out to be Solar, you die next quarantee. Nevermind that Solars will know you fake. It's not like you can be caught on lie anyway.
Meuh role is real, which is so far confirmed by DDS and PPF.
Acts at Noon. When Solars acts supposedly. It's confirmed atleast by two different players. Unless there's like 4+ scumteams (WHICH COULD BE POSSIBLE CONSIDERING LUNAR NEVER EVER KILLED BUT LET'S NOT) or scumteam has abilities which can act on both likely just town.
Slipped that first check was actually Lunar but corrected. I believe Meuh actually has role and therefore has no incentive to lie on this one. Mistake can happen.
So far i think Meuh are most likely town. If not, Lunar.

Professotic

Got wagoned D1. Then decided to disappear. Very useful usage of ability when unlikely to be targeted. Anti-town usage.
On otherhand, this ability is exactly more useful lategame for scum, to keep vote in ELO if endangered. It means usage of ability sucks regardless of alignment. But it's scummy anyway.
There's no 1-Shot claims yet, except for astral ghost themself. What this role supposed to inherit?
3 members in scumteam confirmed? I am surprised you not getting heat for it.
I believe scum has no incentive to pocket and protect me especially in multiball, but considering Mastina plays in House of Dragon, i actually don't know.
More likely evil tho

Dingle Dangle Scarecrow

Targeting sucks. No-no you have no excuse.
Role is real. Like yeah.



and then i got bored and sleepy but i receive my towncred yea?

Do you like this readslist? His reads on pretty much everyone are all over the place and noncommittal. Like he has Magician as Lunar/Solar/town for example. He doesn’t have a single confident tr except maybe Meuh who he’s also shading, then he left Fire, Ydrasse and T-Bone blank.

[Past Present Future]

Well unfortunately that doesn't get me anywhere in my mod metadive

Your what?

[Past Present Future]

Well unfortunately that doesn't get me anywhere in my mod metadive

Your what?

[Past Present Future]

Well unfortunately that doesn't get me anywhere in my mod metadive

Your what?

Checking the mod's posting history to get an idea of what factional abilities may exist, especially for lunar

Enchant can effort/non-effort as any alignment. He efforted a lot in Trees as town and in E/O Killers as SK and most recently as Nobility and the Dark Angel as scum. One of the reasons I locktowned him in that (N @ the DA) because he made a comment about the scumteam being incompetent which he also did in Trees, so I no longer think his comment wrt to MMR botched fakeclaim couldn’t also come from scum.

[Past Present Future]

Also I find the timing of his sudden concern with my role interesting. When we were doing a claims’ list he said nothing but now it’s suddenly important to him?

[Past Present Future]

He also had no comment when Titus made the initial claim, so why now? The timing of it just seems really strange to me.

[Past Present Future]

No really personally i think PPF should be pressured to full claim as i don't believe them

Do you believe anyone’s claims?

@CSF, maybe I missed it but where in that readslist did he say he tr T-Bone?

[Past Present Future]

@CSF, maybe I’m tired or just lazy but I couldn’t find that T-Bone RR post? Can you link/quote it for me please?

One thing I did get from what I did read is that T-Bone and Prof don’t look aligned.

[Past Present Future]

PPF what was your flavor?

Town beloved Princess why?

I know your role can affect phases. You didn't claim fully.

You most likely NOT Lunar due Meuh result, i understand that.


It checks out... I guess. Let's presume for moment Lunar targeted PPF with factional (Night are their time??) I dunno what it does, but then via passive they either learn that PPF is "Beloved Princess" if they are town or "Vanilla" if they are Solar.

... And... Well we saw that.

It annoys me that MMT claimed Loyal Neopolitan, and you claim Beloved Princess, while all other claims except for VT have fancy flavor names.


Also it's so badly executed Neopolitan claim (TO THE POINT I BELIEVED IT) that like... Really. Why...

Omg you’re right, I just checked my role pm and I misunderstood CSF’s question. I just thought she had somehow forgotten what Titus said our role actually did which was beloved princess. But my actual flavour says town dawn priestess not princess.

[Past Present Future]

Also you townread me in that game when i agreed with you and put me in scum when i didn't. So eh

No, I didn’t like that one post because you seemed non-committal on pretty much everyone but this last post seems to have some real thought in it but you did fool me in that game. We probably would have lost that game because you were my #1 tr in that game.

So tell me, because T-Bone has also expressed suspicion on Prof. I think he sounds super townie by play but you think he could be evil? Can you elaborate on that?

[Past Present Future]

I think I didn’t understand why it says dawn in the name because our role doesn’t depend on any specific time phase but it makes sense because Meuh said we were sun attuned.

[Past Present Future]

It remains that in the world where MMR flips lunar, PPF is still solar. If you disagree with this, you have to clearly explain a world in which it makes sense for lunar scum to sacrifice their rolecop, IN MULTIBALL, to kill a single town power role. Because if the vote went through yesterday on PPF, and PPF flipped IC bulletproof cop, MMR gets their head removed by mathblade and/or the solar kill and/or the dusk 2 vote.

You can seriously stop rolefishing. We’ll claim when and if when we feel like it and not a moment sooner.

See I pretty much crumbed the flavour here but I couldn’t find any youtube videos with priestess so I thought angel fit really well.

[Past Present Future]

This was a crumb about being a beloved princess. Note especially the first few words of the song.

[Past Present Future]

PPF, I'm probably gonna hammer just to beat this level if you know what I mean. Any final thoughts?

I’ve already said quite a bit and no one seems to be listening.

This is Timeshift 2.0

and I could have posted my role pm in that game and would have still got miselimed.

I’ve been trying my hardest explained all of the reasons why we’re town and shouldn’t be voted out today. It’s all in my our ISO so don’t ask me for final thoughts until you’ve read that first. Once you don I’ll be happy to answer anything but atp, I’m just repeating myself.

I understand how Titus feels because I wanted to follow Mastina and Yume but I didn’t think it right to let scum push me out that easily, so now I’m just waiting for people to come to their senses but I’m not holding my breath on that.

This was the first extremely subtle crumb. I was miselimmed in that game but it was also a veiled crumb.

[Past Present Future]

Spoiler:

It’s why I absolutely flipped out about Mastina

And why Mastina/Meuh + PPF is very hard for me to shake.

Lunar if you kill me you’re really really silly

Meuh/Mastina is town as are we.



And furtive probably flips town and this game is in the toilet.

Sorry that this isn’t in order. I think there’s one more.

[Past Present Future]

VOTE: PPF

Confirm yourself then. Bet you won't

I already said we will claim if and when it makes sense to do so and not a moment sooner.

I think that’s probably all of them I think. But the angel was the only actual flavour crumb.

[Past Present Future]

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=81907&user_select% ... start=1000

Also if anyone doubts that I was actually crumbling, just click the above link where I was town dolphin.

[Past Present Future]

PPF what was your flavor?

Town beloved Princess why?

I know your role can affect phases. You didn't claim fully.

You most likely NOT Lunar due Meuh result, i understand that.


It checks out... I guess. Let's presume for moment Lunar targeted PPF with factional (Night are their time??) I dunno what it does, but then via passive they either learn that PPF is "Beloved Princess" if they are town or "Vanilla" if they are Solar.

... And... Well we saw that.

It annoys me that MMT claimed Loyal Neopolitan, and you claim Beloved Princess, while all other claims except for VT have fancy flavor names.


Also it's so badly executed Neopolitan claim (TO THE POINT I BELIEVED IT) that like... Really. Why...

I think it’s probably not you anymore, so who am I wrong on? I might possibly have a secret theory but it still doesn’t explain yesterday.

I think there’s more than three scum on d1 Mastina wagon. 3 flipped scum on that. Scum was clearly desperate to kill Mastina so there has to be at least one if not more scum on that wagon.

[Past Present Future]

VC 1.0.12



Mastina (8) Frozen Angel, Mathblade, professotic, MMR, T-Bone, Radical Rat, Maid Cafe, Enchant [E-1!]

scarfmanship (2) Furtiveglance, Past Present Future

Enchant (1) Dingle Dangle Scarecrow
professotic (1) Mastina,
Frozen Angel (1) Radja
Mathblade (1) Yume
Radical Rat (1) Bunnyonce
Dingle Dangle Scarecrow (1) Scarfmanship

Not Voting (1) Save the Dragons,


With 17 Alive it takes 9 to Eliminate
Deadline: 4 Days*

*Deadline will not officially decrease below 4 days until replacements are found.

VC 1.0.13



Mastina (7) Frozen Angel, Mathblade, professotic, MMR, T-Bone, Radical Rat, Maid Cafe, [E-2]

scarfmanship (4) Past Present Future, Bunnyonce, furtiveglance, Ydrasse

Enchant (1) Dingle Dangle Scarecrow
professotic (1) Mastina,
Frozen Angel (1) Radja
Mathblade (1) Yume
Dingle Dangle Scarecrow (1) Scarfmanship

Not Voting (1) Enchant


With 17 Alive it takes 9 to Eliminate
Deadline: (expired on 2022-11-01 13:00:17)

This is why I think it’s not Ydrasse. It would seriously weird if scum!Ydrasse was working at cross purposes with her teammates and trying to derail the Mastina wagon by jumping on Scarf.

It just doesn’t make sense. Scum has to be either on Mastina or on any wagon other than Scarf’s. I think both us and Ydrasse are pretty much clear for being on Scarf.

[Past Present Future]

This is why I think it’s not Ydrasse. It would seriously weird if scum!Ydrasse was working at cross purposes with her teammates and trying to derail the Mastina wagon by jumping on Scarf.

It just doesn’t make sense. Scum has to be either on Mastina or on any wagon other than Scarf’s. I think both us and Ydrasse are pretty much clear for being on Scarf.

Is this working off the assumption that Scarf is scum?

If not, then I don't get this... if neither mastina nor Scarf are scum (or at the very least, if they're not scum with Ydra), why wouldn't Ydrasse vote Scarf? I don't think scum had any reason to rush a mastina lim at that point, did they?

It’s Occams razor basically. What we know from the D1 reveals are that both factions had a player who if they got elimmed d1, their faction gets vanillaized right? So I think it’s quilte likely that each faction likely hypothesized that the same was true for the opposite faction and because both teams had at least one flipped scum on Mastina, I think they might have possibly assumed that killing her would probably vanillaize the other team.

[Past Present Future]

I still think mastina needs to be the elimination today.

I do not agree with T-Bone (p-edit: Or Yume) that MathBlade isn't getting killed tonight, or at least not that it's guaranteed he doesn't.

But more than that, I'm pretty damn sure we've caught scum, and I don't feel inclined to just let scum walk away on the gamble that we hit another scum instead. Though I do have an inkling of where I'd vote if I must...

Also worth consideration is that if we're right on mastina, and we flip her, we get semi-confirmation that it is six scum we're looking for, and that information is very valuable for hunting potential partners.

Look at how hard RR was advocating for her lim.

[Past Present Future]

I’m saying that it doesn’t make sense for scum!Ydrasse to try to save Mastina. Do you understand my argument now @CSF?

[Past Present Future]

In general, I don't know if scum were like "let's go we got to get mastina limmed

right now

" on day 1 at that point.

My read on what was happening day 1 was that louder town like MathBlade was pushing mastina, and some scum jumped on afterwards to ride the momentum that MB and others had created. It was a comfortable wagon for some scum to be on (there's probably another scum on there), but I'd still be surprised if all scum were there.

I’m saying what makes the most sense is for scum to have been anywhere but on Scarf.

[Past Present Future]

VOTE: professotic

Sorry.

What I’m thinking is if Prof is scum, could possibly explain the no kills nights 1 and 2 but nothing explains why there’s no evidence of anything happening on Night 3 or is my math wrong here? There’s so many phases to keep track of, I get them all mixed up.

[Past Present Future]

Spoiler:

[

This is why I think it’s not Ydrasse. It would seriously weird if scum!Ydrasse was working at cross purposes with her teammates and trying to derail the Mastina wagon by jumping on Scarf.

It just doesn’t make sense. Scum has to be either on Mastina or on any wagon other than Scarf’s. I think both us and Ydrasse are pretty much clear for being on Scarf.

Is this working off the assumption that Scarf is scum?

If not, then I don't get this... if neither mastina nor Scarf are scum (or at the very least, if they're not scum with Ydra), why wouldn't Ydrasse vote Scarf? I don't think scum had any reason to rush a mastina lim at that point, did they?

It’s Occams razor basically. What we know from the D1 reveals are that both factions had a player who if they got elimmed d1, their faction gets vanillaized right? So I think it’s quilte likely that each faction likely hypothesized that the same was true for the opposite faction and because both teams had at least one flipped scum on Mastina, I think they might have possibly assumed that killing her would probably vanillaize the other team.

I don't think I agree... from Scum's perspective, there were probably 11 (17-6 scum = 11) people that could have been "blessed." The odds that mastina just happened to be the blessed person for the other team was quite slim (1/11 = ~9%). I'm also not sure Scum could reasonably conclude that opposing Scum had a blessed person, and even if they did conclude that, that the blessed person was _different_ to their own. It just doesn't seem like the most important thing for Scum to focus on considering how little info they had on this. Was there anything else besides both scum factions piling on mastina that suggested scum thought mastina was blessed?

Like your theory is possible - I don't really have anything to refute it - but I think my take on what was happening in 7692 is more likely:

1. MMR & FA's tiff had ended, and MMR turned onto mastina, spotting an easy push because MB was pushing there & mastina was refusing to cooperate and give more info about her FA metaread for some reason

2. Radical Rat pushed mastina because they genuinely thought she was scum - they had a post where they said they try to push opposing Scum in multiball (2156).

I have the general impression that Radical Rat isn't as comfortable lying and mostly tried to push the truth as much as possible.

3. Maid Cafe was just voting the same person as Radical Rat to throw off VCA (they made multiple votes that were next to Rat's on the VCs)

In the Scum!Ydrasse world, the explanation is that Scum wanted to set up a counterwagon to mastina on Scarf

You are basing the bolded on what exactly? Can you link/quote any RR scumgames that show they aren’t likely to lie as scum? Because that isn’t my experience.

[Past Present Future]

Btw for obvious reasons, I didn't want to say this out loud, but fuckit, sure, why not.


Another reason (as if I needed more) that I think that MathBlade is scum is because of his role breadcrumbs.

Obviously, I could be wrong about what he's breadcrumbing.

But it looks to me like he's breadcrumbing a role that is basically my role.
Obviously, I could be off-base. Mistaken entirely about what role he is hinting to have.

But if I wasn’t phoneposting from work, I could pull up the post from him that looks to me like he's claiming my role.

Suffice to say, I have zero interest in claiming today (the NUMEROUS breadcrumbs I've given already should be plenty sufficient for when I do claim), but when I eventually do claim, I'll point out the MathBlade posts which made me think that he's trying to claim what's essentially my role.

By virtue of it BEING my role, naturally, I don’t think that him having it would be town. And this isn’t a case of mirror roles, either.

But for obvious reasons, I shouldn't elaborate further. Even this much is arguably too much.

Still haven't read, every time I try my brain just loses focus and I end up doing something else.

I do want to address this post though, because I think it's a big one. I said earlier the impression I got from the brief bit of mastina vs. MathBlade I saw was that they both believed what they were saying and were pushing in earnest, making them either both Town, or opposing scum factions.

And now mastina's saying she thinks MathBlade's role is her role

.... And that sounds to me like opposing scum factions. Makes sense that with two scum groups, they'd each have similar abilities to balance each other. Whereas giving two Townies the same role is much less likely. And I can't imagine scum just HAPPENS to pick a fakeclaim in a Theme with nonstandard roles that matches a real role Town has.

I'm not voting again until I've read properly, but I would prefer Mastina first because even if she's wrong about MathBlade's role, I think this logic is coming from a scum perspective.

Still think I’m wrong here @CSF? This reads like RR did think Mastina was Mathblade equivalent.

[Past Present Future]

VOTE: professotic

Sorry.

What I’m thinking is if Prof is scum, could possibly explain the no kills nights 1 and 2 but nothing explains why there’s no evidence of anything happening on Night 3 or is my math wrong here? There’s so many phases to keep track of, I get them all mixed up.

I don't understand

We know Solar has kills because of Mathblade. We have no info on what Lunar has, so my theory is Prof!scum could possibly explain no negative actions for the first two nights but not for night 3. I keep hearing conversion being floated about but so far no evidence for it, so what negative utility has Lunar got if it’s not nks right?

But if Prof’s scum, wtf happened last night? Could Lunar have nks but not used them yet? I have no clue.

No evidence of nks, conversion or anything so far from Lunar. Reveals indicate Lunar’s not nightless, so wtf are they doing?

[Past Present Future]

And, when did mastina claim?
I missed pretty much everything that happened in D1 since my V/LA began.
-Rubella

Is this believable dumbtelling?

[Past Present Future]

Well, I wasn't GOING to vote until I saw the rest of the thread, but.

VOTE: mastina

I don't know that I've played with you as scum before (unless you count Double Agency, but... Weird game, that.), but in my experience from other people this kind of attempt to bully the rest of the thread into submission by kicking and screaming you're Town and everyone else is idiots is usually scum.

And to be frank, regardless of alignment, I find the behavior unconscionable.

If you're Town, and you genuinely believe you have a massive solve D1 that just happens to be everyone suspicious of you... You should be elated to have all of the scum out themselves so they can be eliminated in your wake, not angry and belligerent.

RR and Mastina were masons in DA, so why is RR saying they played scum together?

[Past Present Future]

And, when did mastina claim?
I missed pretty much everything that happened in D1 since my V/LA began.
-Rubella

Is this believable dumbtelling?

It’s actually painful trying to slog through that dumpster fire of an ISO. How it was not beyond obvious to me they were flaming obvscum on d1, I have no idea.

[Past Present Future]

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=89719&user_select%5B%5D=27045

One thing I know about RR are that they’re extremely mech savy and if Mastina were still in this game, she’d 100% back me up on that.

[Past Present Future]

I'm probably overreacting.

Mastina is a slot I'd like to sort later. I think this is just what she does and if it's entirely random she's scum but if it makes some sense she's probably town. I am leaning toward the latter.

I don't think that you are overreacting.

138 definitely reads like shade, to me, coming from FA.
It's completely understandable and NAI to not understand the mech in a closed setup.
VOTE: FA
-Rubella

If we’re assuming if scum, Ydrasse is more likely Lunar, does this really sound like something a buddy would say?

I suppose anything’s possible but MMR played so badly and I just don’t see them performing any 3d chess moves.

I think this looks more like white knighting to me than SvS.

I have no idea who to vote for but won’t be shocked if Ydrasse flips town.

[Past Present Future]

Although Scarf seemed to believe it did based on his role though?

I’ve been wondering about this because Scarf claimed vt. Did Scarf posit this theory before or after MMR flip?

[Past Present Future]

I'm probably overreacting.

Mastina is a slot I'd like to sort later. I think this is just what she does and if it's entirely random she's scum but if it makes some sense she's probably town. I am leaning toward the latter.

I don't think that you are overreacting.

138 definitely reads like shade, to me, coming from FA.
It's completely understandable and NAI to not understand the mech in a closed setup.
VOTE: FA
-Rubella

If we’re assuming if scum, Ydrasse is more likely Lunar, does this really sound like something a buddy would say?

I suppose anything’s possible but MMR played so badly and I just don’t see them performing any 3d chess moves.

I think this looks more like white knighting to me than SvS.

I have no idea who to vote for but won’t be shocked if Ydrasse flips town.

Ydrass won’t, we need to vote elsewhere.

Do you want to vote T-Bone?
CSF?

Fuck I’ll even vote Dingle if it becomes a wagon.

I don’t want to vote CSF or Dangle. Sell me on T-Bone?

I also want to ask T-Bone you were pushing Prof really hard before, have you changed your read on him? If not, why Ydrasse?

[Past Present Future]

There was a REASON i switched from Ydrass to Porkens and started the Porkens wagon cause Ydrass was Townie.

I don’t really see what point you’re making here.
If anything, the fact Porkens gained momentum and Ydrasse didn’t despite similar positioning in the game points to Ydrasse having scum buddies protecting her.

Explain?

[Past Present Future]

@mod can you prod DDS

+1

Ydrasse too, please.

[Past Present Future]

There was a REASON i switched from Ydrass to Porkens and started the Porkens wagon cause Ydrass was Townie.

I don’t really see what point you’re making here.
If anything, the fact Porkens gained momentum and Ydrasse didn’t despite similar positioning in the game points to Ydrasse having scum buddies protecting her.

Explain?

So the way I see it: Ydrasse and Porkens' wagons happened one after the other, they were in similar positions of influence (both not super present, though at least Ydrasse existed) and had a similar amount of towncred. So there must be a reason why Porkens went through, and Ydrasse didn't.
Either:
1. Ydrasse is lunar scum who had one or two influential (high thread presence/high towncred) partners that prevented the lim on her from going through. Someone like T-bone, CSF or DDS is lunar scum and had her back.
2. Ydrasse just happened to be townread by key players, which prevented her from being limmed. (NAI in nature)

Because of the aforementioned similar positions from Porkens and Ydrasse, I find the first option more likely and specifically the idea of lunar!Ydrasse quite likely. and even if it wasn't a or some partners responsible for her living, she can still very much be scum.

If you think Ydrasse is town, I'd like to know: Why do you think she wasn't limmed, but Porkens was?

Well, my theory was he was a nullread and people didn’t want the day to drag on another year without a replacement.

And if Ydrasse is town, what would your reads be then?

[Past Present Future]

My gut is telling me it’s not her but I don’t have any idea who it is but I still think that post I quoted looks antipartnery and her being on Scarf is a good look.

[Past Present Future]

Although Scarf seemed to believe it did based on his role though?

I’ve been wondering about this because Scarf claimed vt. Did Scarf posit this theory before or after MMR flip?

iirc correctly this originally came from Day 1 after Mastina had claimed? Because I had made an ask of whether anyone had attunement in their Role PMs because I didn't. Enchant had also said so and then Scarf was like 'shush you vt claims will give the game away'. I had assumed it was because of Scarf's role and that's why I had stopped pushing the attunement issue. Since it was weird, (and still is in some respects) weird to me that only one player's role mentions attunement to be a thing.

Thinking about that, why did Rat never take issue with attunements? Certainly if you're scum that's the type of thing you can confidentially say exists or doesn't exist, right?

Well what made me wonder is that he claimed vt and not a single vt flip says anything other than exactly that.

[Past Present Future]

I also want to ask T-Bone you were pushing Prof really hard before, have you changed your read on him? If not, why Ydrasse?

tbh I thought Prof made more sense as Solar scum, due to his wild insistence that he wanted to punish Lunar and wanted Solar to win. He's definitely not Solar. I already contested the credit he tried to claim for the Solar eliminations, but one thing is certain. Porken's flip condemned Rat, so I don't think the last Solar person was on that wagon. The only way I could buy it is if we flipped Porkens before Prof could try to walk it back (IE a vote that got out of hands while they were offline). He no longer exists in the space where he could be either team in my eyes. Really, only one player is left on this playerlist I feel fits on both teams (Ydrasse).

But RR flipped goon. I could see scum being on it for towncred. Did you read RC’s Anything uPick? Sakura Hana won that by bussing her entire team and Porkens looked like he was a gonner. I can agree about Prof since I think he started it but as for those who jumped on, idk

[Past Present Future]

Well I had no idea I was sun attuned until Meuh checked me, so no idea where he got that from.

[Past Present Future]

I also want to ask T-Bone you were pushing Prof really hard before, have you changed your read on him? If not, why Ydrasse?

tbh I thought Prof made more sense as Solar scum, due to his wild insistence that he wanted to punish Lunar and wanted Solar to win. He's definitely not Solar. I already contested the credit he tried to claim for the Solar eliminations, but one thing is certain. Porken's flip condemned Rat, so I don't think the last Solar person was on that wagon. The only way I could buy it is if we flipped Porkens before Prof could try to walk it back (IE a vote that got out of hands while they were offline). He no longer exists in the space where he could be either team in my eyes. Really, only one player is left on this playerlist I feel fits on both teams (Ydrasse).

But RR flipped goon. I could see scum being on it for towncred. Did you read RC’s Anything uPick? Sakura Hana won that by bussing her entire team and Porkens looked like he was a gonner. I can agree about Prof since I think he started it but as for those who jumped on, idk

Right but what I was saying is that if you're allied with Porkens/RR pre-flip, you know that flipping Porkens confirms RR as scum because RR claimed that their role was the fake part of Porkens' role.

Yeah I know but there’s no reason to think Solar knows Porkens is a goner and busses either. I was in a game where scum hardbussed their most important pr on d1 no less and they weren’t even close to being doomed. I was the game losing miselim in that because I stupidly tried to stop them from being wagoned.

[Past Present Future]

Can we not vote Ydrass.
Can we vote someone else please?

Who? I don’t want to elim Ydrasee either. Convince me on someone else.

[Past Present Future]

Well I had no idea I was sun attuned until Meuh checked me, so no idea where he got that from.

Aren't you said you was Dusk princess or something

Priestess. Town Dawn Priestess but I didn’t expect Math to flip dusk anything based off reveal, so I didn’t read anything into it.

[Past Present Future]

literally anyone else online? PPF?

You must have some other suspects than Ydra right? I will hammer if she gets to 5 but I think she flips town.

[Past Present Future]

VC 6.0.6


Ydrasse (2) Meuh, Firebringer [E-4]

Cat Scratch Fever (1) Professotic


Not Voting (7) Everybody Else


Activity isn't being counted until (expired on 2022-12-26 19:28:15)

Deadline (expired on 2022-12-28 07:27:55)

There's only 8 hours left. Please vote & consolidate

Ydra is at 4 with me & T-Bone's votes. I'm at 1 vote (Magician), T-Bone is at 1 (Professotic).

I thought Prof switched to T-Bone. I’m not voting CSF especially after RR flip.

Prof if you want to save Ydrasse, find another wagon because your vote on CSF is probably going to guarantee Ydra lim. Not Dangle either.

[Past Present Future]

VC 6.0.6


Ydrasse (2) Meuh, Firebringer [E-4]

Cat Scratch Fever (1) Professotic


Not Voting (7) Everybody Else


Activity isn't being counted until (expired on 2022-12-26 19:28:15)

Deadline (expired on 2022-12-28 07:27:55)

There's only 8 hours left. Please vote & consolidate

Ydra is at 4 with me & T-Bone's votes. I'm at 1 vote (Magician), T-Bone is at 1 (Professotic).

I thought Prof switched to T-Bone. I’m not voting CSF especially after RR flip.

Prof if you want to save Ydrasse, find another wagon because your vote on CSF is probably going to guarantee Ydra lim. Not Dangle either.

Oh wait this is wrong, Magician is voting CSF not Prof.

[Past Present Future]

VC 2.0.5



MMR (5) Radical Rat, T-bone , Mastina, Yume, Past Present Future [E-3]

Mastina (3) Unwnd, Furtiveglance, firebringer

Past Present Future (2) Scarfmanship, Mathblade,

furtiveglance (1) Dingle Dangle Scarecrow,


Not Voting (4) Ydrasse, MMR, Toogeloo, Enchant,

Deadline: (expired on 2022-11-14 21:51:23)
With 15 alive it takes 8 to eliminate.

VC 2.0.6



Past Present Future (4) Scarfmanship, MMR, Toogeloo, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow [E-4]
MMR (4) Radical Rat, Yume, Past Present Future, Mathblade [E-4]

Mastina (3) Unwnd, Furtiveglance, firebringer

Unwnd (1) Mastina

Not Voting (3) Ydrasse, Enchant, T-bone ,

Deadline: (expired on 2022-11-14 21:51:23)
With 15 alive it takes 8 to eliminate.

T-Bone was early on MMR than jumped off.

VOTE: T-Bone

[Past Present Future]

PPF, there's less than 4 hours until the deadline, and the mod just said she's not counting votes after it.

Most other wagons are unrealistic. I don't know if Meuh/FB/T-Bone are still awake, and no idea where DDS is. Like I'll hammer any wagon, but what other wagon can be even be pushed through before deadline? I'm only awake and posting here right now because I want to make sure we get a lim

but to answer your question, I'm beginning to suspect Magician for like... not seeming to care about this game at all, and DDS for being MIA. Re-eval professotic and DDS if Ydra flips scum. Firebringer is still my pick for Solar scum.

Could vote Magcian as well. I will check back and hammer whomever but I think MMR telling STD he wasn’t over reacting sounds like a wk and I don’t feel Ydrasse is aligned with anyone.

[Past Present Future]

Even if I were to vote her, it’s still 5. I don’t think it’s her.

[Past Present Future]

I was looking at T-Bone on day 2. Right when T-Bone voted MMR, this was the VC

Spoiler:

mastina (4): unwnd [3394], furtiveglance [3478], Firebringer [3480], Yume [3486]

MMR (2) Radical Rat,

T-Bone

[3574]
Scarfmanship (2) Past Present Future, mastina [3555]
past Present Future (2) Toogeloo, Enchant

furtiveglance (1) Dingle Dangle Scarecrow

Not Voting (4) Ydrasse, MMR, Mathblade, scarfmanship

Deadline: (expired on 2022-11-14 21:51:23)
With 15 alive it takes 8 to eliminate.

Between the last official mod VC in 3385 and T-Bone's vote on MMR in 3574, the most notable movement was the rise of the mastina wagon. T-Bone could've easily joined that mastina wagon too; he scumread mastina on day 1, and I think he was still scumreading her on day 2. It doesn't really make much sense for Lunar!T-Bone to double down on resolving the MMR/PPF 1v1 like that.

But after he unvoted MMR he just stayed off, so where was the resolving? Why did he jump off MMR?

[Past Present Future]

CSF my entire argument for why I think d1 Mastina wagon is particularly suss doesn’t apply to any day after d1. I think scum thought Mastina was the opposite team’s vanillaizer. I think RR likely did based off the posts I quoted, so I don’t see how T-Bone not pushing Mastina on d2 means anything?

I will check back before I fall asleep and will hammer Ydra if nothing changes but I think she’s flipping town and I’d rather flip a slot I think is more likely to flip scum.

[Past Present Future]

VC 1.0.15




professotic (7) Mastina, Bunnyonce, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow, Past Present Future, Scarfmanship, Yume, MMR [E-2]

Mastina (4) Frozen Angel, T-Bone, Radical Rat, Maid Cafe,

scarfmanship (1)furtiveglance,
Frozen Angel (1) Radja,
Bunnyonce (1) professotic,


Not Voting (3) Enchant, Ydrasse, Mathblade,


With 17 Alive it takes 9 to Eliminate
Deadline: (expired on 2022-11-01 13:00:17)

Prof doesn’t look aligned with MMR here.

[Past Present Future]

CSF my entire argument for why I think d1 Mastina wagon is particularly suss doesn’t apply to any day after d1. I think scum thought Mastina was the opposite team’s vanillaizer. I think RR likely did based off the posts I quoted, so I don’t see how T-Bone not pushing Mastina on d2 means anything?

because pushing mastina means not resolving the 1v1 between you & MMR, a Lunar scumbuddy. mastina wagon was a distraction that scum could've taken advantage of, but T-Bone didn't

And also, I think you could be right that Solar suspected mastina was blessed based on what Radical Rat posted. But so far, what evidence suggests Lunar thought mastina was blessed?

Idk but is it really believable that all 3 MMR heads didn’t pay attention to Mastina claim? So let’s say I’m wrong and it is Ydra, who is her buddy? She jumped on RR fairly easily so she doesn’t look like Solar.

[Past Present Future]

It just goes against everything I believe to vote someone I think is probably flipping town. How much time left?

[Past Present Future]

I think PPT white knight

Based on what? That’s transparently disingenuous on your part. I gave valid reasons for why I think Ydra’s town and you’re just looking at bs reasons to shade me.

You are not out of my PoE here. Not by a longshot.

I think you pulled something similar on me in one of your scumgames.

Like Nobility when you said I always tr you as scum. So you can get fucking rekt with that.

[Past Present Future]

Am here, can't really talk with family but I can place a vote

Realistically is this Ydrasse vs T-Bone?

I could also do Enchant for that last bs post but whatever.

[Past Present Future]

You now lying. I never said that.

No you are. I can look it up. You said exactly that in Nobility.

VOTE: Enchant

[Past Present Future]

You now lying. I never said that.

No you are. I can look it up. You said exactly that in Nobility.

VOTE: Enchant

Enchant just accused me of lying when I can literally prove that to be false.

[Past Present Future]

Enchant is scum for lying about what he said to me in Nobility.

[Past Present Future]

I think PPT white knight

Based on what? That’s transparently disingenuous on your part. I gave valid reasons for why I think Ydra’s town and you’re just looking at bs reasons to shade me.

You are not out of my PoE here. Not by a longshot.

I think you pulled something similar on me in one of your scumgames.

Like Nobility when you said I always tr you as scum. So you can get fucking rekt with that.

Re bear da, bear most vt seeming one here for now. DA being bad vote town jackalin sheep skinalways a good strat tho so 95 on phobe and then all yall not nobled factored in 5

I actually agree. Nancy loves to pocket me as scum for some reason though, so not absolutely sure.

HEAL: Tapio

Tell me I’m lying again Enchant, I fucking dare you.

[Past Present Future]

Can we kill Enchant please? I just proved he’s a liar.

[Past Present Future]

I think PPT white knight

Based on what? That’s transparently disingenuous on your part. I gave valid reasons for why I think Ydra’s town and you’re just looking at bs reasons to shade me.

You are not out of my PoE here. Not by a longshot.

I think you pulled something similar on me in one of your scumgames.

Like Nobility when you said I always tr you as scum. So you can get fucking rekt with that.

Re bear da, bear most vt seeming one here for now. DA being bad vote town jackalin sheep skinalways a good strat tho so 95 on phobe and then all yall not nobled factored in 5

I actually agree. Nancy loves to pocket me as scum for some reason though, so not absolutely sure.

HEAL: Tapio

Tell me I’m lying again Enchant, I fucking dare you.

you fabricated it

It’s right from that game. Do you seriously think you can get away with this? Anyone can fucking confirm this. Enchant is confiscum.

[Past Present Future]

Enchant tomorrow, he just scumclaimed.

[Past Present Future]

Subject: OPEN 868 - Nobility and the Dark Angel | Endgame

Re bear da, bear most vt seeming one here for now. DA being bad vote town jackalin sheep skinalways a good strat tho so 95 on phobe and then all yall not nobled factored in 5

I actually agree. Nancy loves to pocket me as scum for some reason though, so not absolutely sure.

HEAL: Tapio

I caught you, deal with it.

[Past Present Future]

Enchant is confiscum.

[Past Present Future]

what it argument even proves

like i said you whiteknighing, you said you townread me as scum like i don't see how it even related

You said I fabricated that you accused me of always tr you as scum. How is that not an outright scumclaim? This is exactly the kind of bs you pulled on me in Nobility.

[Past Present Future]

what it argument even proves

like i said you whiteknighing, you said you townread me as scum like i don't see how it even related

Did you not read my VCA reads and that quote MMR made about STD not over reacting? Why do you auto jump to wk when I I have valid reasons to think she’s town here?

It just looks like you want to shade me for no good reason.

[Past Present Future]

I think PPT white knight

Based on what? That’s transparently disingenuous on your part. I gave valid reasons for why I think Ydra’s town and you’re just looking at bs reasons to shade me.

You are not out of my PoE here. Not by a longshot.

I think you pulled something similar on me in one of your scumgames.

Like Nobility when you said I always tr you as scum. So you can get fucking rekt with that.

Re bear da, bear most vt seeming one here for now. DA being bad vote town jackalin sheep skinalways a good strat tho so 95 on phobe and then all yall not nobled factored in 5

I actually agree. Nancy loves to pocket me as scum for some reason though, so not absolutely sure.

HEAL: Tapio

Tell me I’m lying again Enchant, I fucking dare you.

you fabricated it

It’s right from that game. Do you seriously think you can get away with this? Anyone can fucking confirm this. Enchant is confiscum.

And you accused me of fabricating this when we both know that’s not possible.

[Past Present Future]

You also pushed Prof as “evil”. Is he also wk Ydrasse?

[Past Present Future]

idk i dunno what Ydrasse flips

Then how do you get the wk thing from? A wk means you think she’s probably town. I guess we’ll find out then. I hope she does flip scum but I don’t think so.