Hollow Knight Mafia [game over]

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: redff

I don't know you

[VP Baltar]

Eternal King Dom

[VP Baltar]

mod, I will be VLA Feb 13-17. Just fyi

Noted. ~D

[VP Baltar]

hahahaha FOOLS

You scum know not what you are dealing with. Prepare to face the wrath of Mistyx the Mighty, carrier of villages, ender of scum! Tremble before me!

I wanna townread this, can I townread this?

Why are you townreading it?

[VP Baltar]

one day I'll watch an anime

Criminal

[VP Baltar]

This one trusts both our sire the majestic and radiant Herald of Flame, as well as He Who is Furtive

They can do no wrong in this one's eyes and this shall remain unchanged!

The one who Klicks and Red feel wholesome as well.

Why do you townread them?

[VP Baltar]

Morning Tweet did nothing wrong. AMA

[VP Baltar]

Morning Tweet did nothing wrong. AMA

what color are your socks

Orange and gray today.

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE: redFF

I'm no longer convinced he's racist against Dwarves.

Interesting case against Gimli though. There were lots of people posting early and no one was really advancing the game, yet for some reason he only picked on furtive

two things

I know furtive and I know he goes hard early as town. this is uncharacteristic I promise you.

out of all top posters he is the only one who didn't drop a single read in those pages when other people were doing that. he was ignoring the mafia playing parts of the conversation.

check his ISO to see for yourself

You have examples of furtive going hard early?

[VP Baltar]

Klick, do you think you are a defensive person usually?

[VP Baltar]

I'm mostly just here to shitpost though.

hmm

[VP Baltar]

cakez taly gut town

i don't really like vp's posts so far it seems like he's just trying to cast doubt on standing reads without providing any of his own

VOTE: VP Baltar

Apart from my MT comment, where am I casting doubt?

Also, how is me saying I don't agree MT looks scummy not providing a read? Should be pretty clear from that post I don't agree that she looks scummy.

[VP Baltar]

This one feels our King and the Glancer are loyal, and still does!

As CSF said, I don't see how this answers my actual question. You're standing by it...that's fine. I wasn't really saying you shouldn't. I want you to explain your thinking so I can understand where you're coming from.

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: asri

I slept on this and I feel like asri not being able to give actual reasons to why they hard town read someone doesn't make a lot of sense coming from town. I mean, sure, gut townread someone early game for vibes or whatever, but a hard town read? Nah.

[VP Baltar]

i feel the best about TRing Ali, Gimli & Taly

i think klick vpb & redff are all fine places to vote.

id tr firebringer but i dont want him to get mad at me.

This also feels incredibly lazy to me

[VP Baltar]

Who didn't they answer about^?

Just a min, I'll grab quotes

[VP Baltar]

This one trusts both our sire the majestic and radiant Herald of Flame, as well as He Who is Furtive

They can do no wrong in this one's eyes and this shall remain unchanged!

The one who Klicks and Red feel wholesome as well.

Why do you townread them?

This one feels our King and the Glancer are loyal, and still does!
Klick and Red do seem good for now?


This one has also taken a great liking to Sir of the Cakez, but is greatly unsure about voting on the Morn Tweeter.

This sums it up.

Townreads both Firebringer and furtive to the point of saying "they can do no wrong". So I'm like "hmm, that seems strong for pretty early."

I ask why, and Asri just says they don't have a reason.

It feels like if those two are town, it's a very safe position for scum to take, especially with fireb

[VP Baltar]

Asri has already been pretty clear that they don't want to elaborate further; I don't think further pressure to make that happen is very productive

I think they should have some time to do their thing

I mean, it's not a pressure vote. I think it's pretty scummy, trying to fit in behavior. There is no curiosity or sense of trying to figure the game out here. Just absolute certainty in reads.

[VP Baltar]

I'm a loser giving up a page top like that

[VP Baltar]

unless someone refutes my vote I see no reason to consider other options at this moment

What's your tldr on MT?

[VP Baltar]

This one trusts Fire and Furtive, likes Red, Klick and hasn't had reason to not like Sir Cakez. There are others that this one might place above the previous three but this one is not naming their names, as this one doesn't like to be fooled and rather trusts its first impressions now.

This one doesn't like to be forced, it will not expand!

This one can leave this mortal coil!

[VP Baltar]

i feel the best about TRing Ali, Gimli & Taly

i think klick vpb & redff are all fine places to vote.

id tr firebringer but i dont want him to get mad at me.

This also feels incredibly lazy to me

Why are those reads lazy?

All being pushed by other people and ari isn't actually adding to those conversations.

[VP Baltar]

I personally find Baltar very entertaining.

Disarming me by being sweet. I see I see.

[VP Baltar]

Asri has already been pretty clear that they don't want to elaborate further; I don't think further pressure to make that happen is very productive

I think they should have some time to do their thing

I mean, it's not a pressure vote. I think it's pretty scummy, trying to fit in behavior. There is no curiosity or sense of trying to figure the game out here. Just absolute certainty in reads.

This one trusts Fire and Furtive, likes Red, Klick and hasn't had reason to not like Sir Cakez. There are others that this one might place above the previous three but this one is not naming their names, as this one doesn't like to be fooled and rather trusts its first impressions now.

This one doesn't like to be forced, it will not expand!

This one can leave this mortal coil!

i don't believe this is at all genuine from baltar, he's focusing on something simplistic to push on that doesn't have any actual connection to whether the person is scum

You're literally trying to make the argument against me that I'm making to Asri...reads that disconnected from substance and true belief.

You fucking with me here?

[VP Baltar]

I do find it interesting that a wagon formed on someone who i consider one of the strongest players in this game so fast.

Though maybe that doesn't mean anything.
Would scum push VPB or avoid him?
What if VPB is scum and i am just blind?

All interesting questions.

That's adorable you think I'm good at mafia

[VP Baltar]

If you guys gladiate I'm backing VP^

Lol do I need to remind you of the drapion incident

[VP Baltar]

i don't believe this is at all genuine from baltar, he's focusing on something simplistic to push on that doesn't have any actual connection to whether the person is scum

You're literally trying to make the argument against me that I'm making to Asri...reads that disconnected from substance and true belief.

You fucking with me here?

"you too" is not a convincing defense, nor is what i'm saying remotely similar to you

your argument is that asri refusing to explain their reads makes them scum who is faking opinions

i don't think this is a remotely correct tell and in the case of a clear gimmick alt is likely intentionally stylistic. i don't find it super endearing but someone refusing to explain their reads in the early game certainly isn't a scumtell and you've played enough to know that

this doesn't particularly make asri town, however your case looks like one scum would make


your two pushes so far are downright horrendous in their reasoning, borderline nonsensical, and look significantly more like scum stretching to make irrelevant things look scummy because you can't make a real case

I'm not saying "you too"

I'm saying you can't seriously expect someone to take you as credible when you're literally making essentially the same argument as a reason to call me bad.

You can call me "horrendous" for making thin pushes in early game ... but what do you expect cases to be at this point in a large game?

I don't think my reasoning of scum faking townreads for malarkey reasons WHICH HAPPENS IN LITERALLY EVERY GAME EVER is "horrendous" in the slightest. Thin, sure. Bad, not even close.

Assessing people's reasoning for townreads is actually quite effective at finding who has legit lines of thought and who doesn't, and you definitely know this.

If this is you trying to pressure me to get a read, that's not really how to sort me. If you're telling me you legit believe this is scummy behavior...well

[VP Baltar]

VPB are u saying peta pan push is a null or townie or scummy.
What is ur stance on peta pushing u if one and why not if u don't have one

I don't know. That's what I'm trying to assess here from him. If he's reaction testing me, like just stop.

If he is being serious, I have concerns.

[VP Baltar]

@VPB I kind of think you're a lot closer to Joker than Batman atp but it's still early.

I don't think I play the batman role much at all...

[VP Baltar]

I'm not saying "you too"

I'm saying you can't seriously expect someone to take you as credible when you're literally making essentially the same argument as a reason to call me bad.

You can call me "horrendous" for making thin pushes in early game ... but what do you expect cases to be at this point in a large game?

I don't think my reasoning of scum faking townreads for malarkey reasons WHICH HAPPENS IN LITERALLY EVERY GAME EVER is "horrendous" in the slightest. Thin, sure. Bad, not even close.

Assessing people's reasoning for townreads is actually quite effective at finding who has legit lines of thought and who doesn't, and you definitely know this.

If this is you trying to pressure me to get a read, that's not really how to sort me. If you're telling me you legit believe this is scummy behavior...well

"i'm not saying you too i'm just saing you're making the same argument"

like ???

by definition any early game push is thin but you didn't act like it was thin, you acted with a really disproportionate confidence. and the problem with this is i don't actually think you tried to assess asri's reasoning for their townreads, you just went "okay you can't answer me you're clearly fake die"

which, like, isn't how the game works and doesn't come across as actually attempting to assess asri's alignmnt

like i've been saying, surface level

So my confidence is the problem here, not the reasoning?

As a side note, is anyone else having issues just snipping quotes on mobile? Used to be able to highlight the text I want and click quote to only get that, but now I seem to get the full quote regardless...which is annoying for everyone.

[VP Baltar]

I will certainly admit to regularly expressing more confidence in things than i actually have as a way of reaction testing and seeing how people respond. I feel like you've played with me enough to know this, which is what makes me skeptical you aren't reaction testing me.

But at this point, you've doubled down enough to say you're serious, so I'm not entirely sure what to make of that. It seems disingenuous from you.

Let's look at this from a different angle, do you townread asri right now?

[VP Baltar]

TOWN
furtiveglance
Morning Tweet
Black
SirCakez
Alisae

LEANING TOWN
Firebringer
VP Baltar
Gimli

NULL
Mistyx
Asri Teroka
Aristeia
redFF
Taly

LEANING SCUM
petapan
Lycanfire
Cat Scratch Fever

SCUM

I've been out all day and need to do some catch up. Did you explain the Lycan or CSF scum leans yet? Csf seems especially spicy.

[VP Baltar]

LEANING SCUM
petapan
Lycanfire
Cat Scratch Fever

i want to learn more about how lycan fire got on this lean scum list here

He's my neighbour and I think he isn't as towny as the other neighbour partner

Oh there's a hood? Interesting. Who all is in it?

[VP Baltar]

ohh so the classic mod guessing of not all my neighbors can be town thing.
i wouldn't put it past datisi to make it all town.
but interesting

when has datisi EVER trolled his players with a setup

*ducks*

[VP Baltar]

Klick is plus town for hood paranoia disclosure. Scum would be unlikely to do that this early in the game.

[VP Baltar]

(Peta's) VP push doesn't seem like a push that comes from a wolf so far?

Can you elaborate what you mean here?


Something about the Lycan/Alisae interaction strikes me as very fake (even if the avi is hilarious).

Lycan, you said I shifted to Ari, but it was Asri...just to clarify. I suppose I may need to write out Ari's name fully if that's going to get confusing.

[VP Baltar]

This one likes Red and Klick more than before and feels they might have been right on them? The one called Alisae also seems really really nice and concerned with getting things going so they're good! And Lycan of the Fire, somehow, just feels wholesome? Would like to see their red glory more though, as they and Klick share a hut!

This one is not at all certain if it's voting soon. It wants to vote Baltar, but only because they were mean. Being mean doesn't mean they're traitorous yet, in this one's mind, but it would sure be nice if they are because they were mean!

This one doesn't suspect anyone else enough to vote them, now.

Do you plan to vote someone at some point here at the very least?

[VP Baltar]

This one likes Red and Klick more than before and feels they might have been right on them? The one called Alisae also seems really really nice and concerned with getting things going so they're good! And Lycan of the Fire, somehow, just feels wholesome? Would like to see their red glory more though, as they and Klick share a hut!

This one is not at all certain if it's voting soon. It wants to vote Baltar, but only because they were mean. Being mean doesn't mean they're traitorous yet, in this one's mind, but it would sure be nice if they are because they were mean!

This one doesn't suspect anyone else enough to vote them, now.

Do you plan to vote someone at some point here at the very least?

you've been the lone vote on Asri for a while now; why aren't you doing more to build the wagon?

I've had a pretty busy weekend, but hoping to get some time behind a computer today. I need to look at some meta to reassure myself if I'm going to go hard.

[VP Baltar]

This one votes when it votes Baltar.

Why are you being tentative?

This is the second time you've talked about voting me and haven't done it.

[VP Baltar]

I've had a pretty busy weekend, but hoping to get some time behind a computer today. I need to look at some meta to reassure myself if I'm going to go hard.

They only have 24 posts, so that sounds a bit challenging. Did you have any thoughts on the major wagons right now aside from Lycan?

Yes, but I want to do some deeper reading.

Top level though is I think the Klick wagon was very meh.

Red I can understand.

Mine is clear trash.


Other takes:

I think alisae and ari are maybe kinda scummy, and I need to do reading there.


Pedit - @furtive, oh if that's the case. Alright

[VP Baltar]

I don't see why we wouldn't want to know the third member if two are already outted.

[VP Baltar]

Can I get some votes here

VOTE: Klick

Nah. I can probably towncase Klick later if that's helpful for you, but like I said, I just think it's very unlikely they out the hood if scum. Willing to stand by that unless there is a compelling reason later not to.

[VP Baltar]

SirCakez?

I don't know how you made that read but yes it's Cakez!

Why is lycan more likely scum than cakez?

[VP Baltar]

If this game turns out im defending scum Ari though.
I will never defend her again.

Fool you once...

[VP Baltar]

If this game turns out im defending scum Ari though.
I will never defend her again.

Fool you once...

do you have a read on me yet vpb

I already said I find your play kinda scummy this game. I like the cakez push a little better because it feels like you're doing something at least now.

You seemed pretty coasty for awhile, which was similar to the dance game.

Why do you think you're self evidently town this game?

[VP Baltar]

i think one of cakez/lycan being scum is a decent shout

Can you tell me why you feel this way? Were you sussing either of them before the hood came out?

[VP Baltar]

Spoiler:

This one likes Red and Klick more than before and feels they might have been right on them? The one called Alisae also seems really really nice and concerned with getting things going so they're good! And Lycan of the Fire, somehow, just feels wholesome? Would like to see their red glory more though, as they and Klick share a hut!

This one is not at all certain if it's voting soon. It wants to vote Baltar, but only because they were mean. Being mean doesn't mean they're traitorous yet, in this one's mind, but it would sure be nice if they are because they were mean!

This one doesn't suspect anyone else enough to vote them, now.

This one likes Red and Klick more than before and feels they might have been right on them? The one called Alisae also seems really really nice and concerned with getting things going so they're good! And Lycan of the Fire, somehow, just feels wholesome? Would like to see their red glory more though, as they and Klick share a hut!

This one is not at all certain if it's voting soon. It wants to vote Baltar, but only because they were mean. Being mean doesn't mean they're traitorous yet, in this one's mind, but it would sure be nice if they are because they were mean!

This one doesn't suspect anyone else enough to vote them, now.

Do you plan to vote someone at some point here at the very least?

This one votes when it votes Baltar.

This one votes when it votes Baltar.

Why are you being tentative?

This is the second time you've talked about voting me and haven't done it.

i feel like there's a nonzero chance asri and baltar are scum together

Peta cannot be town with this logic. Flip asri

[VP Baltar]

i think one of cakez/lycan being scum is a decent shout

Can you tell me why you feel this way? Were you sussing either of them before the hood came out?

klick looks town and there's probably a mafia in the neighborhood

I mean maybe, but I guess I have been burned by that before. You will to clear the whole hood if we miss?

[VP Baltar]

Spoiler:

This one likes Red and Klick more than before and feels they might have been right on them? The one called Alisae also seems really really nice and concerned with getting things going so they're good! And Lycan of the Fire, somehow, just feels wholesome? Would like to see their red glory more though, as they and Klick share a hut!

This one is not at all certain if it's voting soon. It wants to vote Baltar, but only because they were mean. Being mean doesn't mean they're traitorous yet, in this one's mind, but it would sure be nice if they are because they were mean!

This one doesn't suspect anyone else enough to vote them, now.

This one likes Red and Klick more than before and feels they might have been right on them? The one called Alisae also seems really really nice and concerned with getting things going so they're good! And Lycan of the Fire, somehow, just feels wholesome? Would like to see their red glory more though, as they and Klick share a hut!

This one is not at all certain if it's voting soon. It wants to vote Baltar, but only because they were mean. Being mean doesn't mean they're traitorous yet, in this one's mind, but it would sure be nice if they are because they were mean!

This one doesn't suspect anyone else enough to vote them, now.

Do you plan to vote someone at some point here at the very least?

This one votes when it votes Baltar.

This one votes when it votes Baltar.

Why are you being tentative?

This is the second time you've talked about voting me and haven't done it.

i feel like there's a nonzero chance asri and baltar are scum together

Peta cannot be town with this logic. Flip asri

For those who need it spelled out, this is a botched chainsaw/distancing combo. Would lim peta if people prefer

[VP Baltar]

This one votes when it votes Baltar.

The fact that peta is using this as evidence when it was a punctuation error by asri shows he is not actually making arguments in good faith here.

[VP Baltar]

It also makes sense now why peta could not understand why his original argument against me was nonsense

[VP Baltar]

This one didn't like the way Sir of the Cakez spoke after Klick and Lycan admitted to being in contact with them. Consider this one willing to vote Sir of the Cakez, but as thi one doesn't know the exact vote tally right now and is busy, this one is merely stating intent.

You said you were basically cool with cakez until this wagon became popular. He was one of the townreads you refused to explain.

What do you mean - and yes you actually have to explain your read here - that you didn't like the way cakez spoke?

[VP Baltar]

My own take on the cakez wagon is that I kind of like what ari is saying, and that meta read doesn't seem crazy to me. Cakez is not great at scum from what I've seen (I love you cakez!), though others on this site seem to be able to vibe him much better than me.

If ari is town, the wagon comp isn't terrible either outside asri, which could be bussing if cakez flipped scum.

[VP Baltar]

Klick is there some asri thing I'm missing? I feel like I trust you most here, but that's a wild read

[VP Baltar]

Literally why is anyone townreading Asri. Idgi

[VP Baltar]

Regarding the Cakez wagon... I'm not a fan of how it snowballed. Mainly the votes from CSF and Asri. I'll have to look through at some point to see what else is noteworthy

I got a strong townread from Cakez earlier but it was mostly due to us mindmelding in #487. Some of my reads have changed since then so we may not be on the same page anymore. I didn't mind his vote for Ari because I agreed with him on her ISO. However, the fact that most of this playerlist seems to have a townread on Ari makes me very skeptical of my own read.

Ari has tunneled in on Cakez after he voted for her. She OMGUS voted Cakez and then 99% of her content since then has been about Cakez being scum. Can someone advise if this is normal behavior from Ari?

I don't think it's that unusual for Ari to tunnel as town if she feels strongly about a scum read. Part of what bugged me about her earlier was a lack of passion like this. I'd assess the case on merits rather than whether ari is tunneling or not

[VP Baltar]

that is such a fucking scummy post

How so?

[VP Baltar]

that is such a fucking scummy post

how so

opportunistic, very artificial progression toward the wagon

How is it opportunistic? I don't believe it is much of a progression at all, as I haven't really focused much on cakez before this.

You think I shouldn't be giving opinions on a fastly growing wagon?

[VP Baltar]

that is such a fucking scummy post

how so

opportunistic, very artificial progression toward the wagon

How is it opportunistic? I don't believe it is much of a progression at all, as I haven't really focused much on cakez before this.

You think I shouldn't be giving opinions on a fastly growing wagon?

you immediately writing off he first vote asri made as a bus is pretty weak shit yeah

asri on balar: uhhhm ahhh hemmm hes being bad to me but idk if i wanna voooote

asri on cakez: yeah sure great case let's go

These posts back to back make nonsense. You correctly point out that asri's vote is shitty and unexplained, but you think I'm "opportunistic" for pointing that out.

Wut?

[VP Baltar]

My own take on the cakez wagon is that I kind of like what ari is saying, and that meta read doesn't seem crazy to me. Cakez is not great at scum from what I've seen (I love you cakez!), though others on this site seem to be able to vibe him much better than me.

If ari is town, the wagon comp isn't terrible either outside asri, which could be bussing if cakez flipped scum.

I do agree with Peta that this post was terrible
like what is Baltar even saying here?

(ily too i know im not great lol but also this was scummy boss)

What is unclear to you about what I'm saying? Ari makes a reasonable point that I can see skimming those games, and if she's town, that wagon comp isn't terrible. Klick is my top townread. Asri I can definitely see as a bus given their general reaction to a very reasonable ask.

What's confusing to you?

[VP Baltar]

This one thinks Radiance's Infected likely includes Black, Baltar, Sir of the Cakez and the Furtive One.
This one isn't saying why, isn't even sure whether they will! This one is tired. Maybe later this will explain? Maybe not.

You can vote here still.

[VP Baltar]

This one thinks Radiance's Infected likely includes Black, Baltar, Sir of the Cakez and the Furtive One.
This one isn't saying why, isn't even sure whether they will! This one is tired. Maybe later this will explain? Maybe not.

You can vote here still.

I'm just not sure if this is bad scum play or bad town play

Honestly, same. I just don't get why asri is being so frustrating when I'm actually trying to engage here.

I also think peta is being illogical in his response around someone he thinks is null at best. I need to probably take a break from this line of thought because I can feel myself getting tunneled on it.

[VP Baltar]

Firebringer, why Lycan over cakez?

[VP Baltar]

My own take on the cakez wagon is that I kind of like what ari is saying, and that meta read doesn't seem crazy to me. Cakez is not great at scum from what I've seen (I love you cakez!), though others on this site seem to be able to vibe him much better than me.

If ari is town, the wagon comp isn't terrible either outside asri, which could be bussing if cakez flipped scum.

I do agree with Peta that this post was terrible
like what is Baltar even saying here?

(ily too i know im not great lol but also this was scummy boss)

What is unclear to you about what I'm saying? Ari makes a reasonable point that I can see skimming those games, and if she's town, that wagon comp isn't terrible. Klick is my top townread. Asri I can definitely see as a bus given their general reaction to a very reasonable ask.

What's confusing to you?

the main part is if you agree with all this stuff why aren't you voting me?

I'm not convinced this is absolutely scum you. I don't think I have a strong record of reading you well. Just saying that ari isn't making completely absurd points as far as I can tell.

How do you feel about asri?

[VP Baltar]

Gimli, you scum ?

[VP Baltar]

Gimli, you scum ?

I'm town

you think I'm scummy?

I don't understand your vote on me. I don't really think my play this game is different from pairs other than I'm trying not to get over sunk on reads like I did with Shea because that was bad.

You think I'm really being unreasonable by pushing asri to answer very basic questions? How else am I supposed to understand their alignment?

[VP Baltar]

Gimli, you scum ?

I'm town

you think I'm scummy?

I don't understand your vote on me. I don't really think my play this game is different from pairs other than I'm trying not to get over sunk on reads like I did with Shea because that was bad.

You think I'm really being unreasonable by pushing asri to answer very basic questions? How else am I supposed to understand their alignment?

ah, I mean questioning is one thing, scumreading is different. do you think it's more of a towny or a scummy thing to do, being obtuse about your reads the way asri is playing? I think scums tend to explain more or try to appear towny. I'm not townreading asri per se with this, I'm just saying it feels like a weak push on a weird slot that's gonna be scumread for personality reasons not alignment reasons

I think when my instincts don't like something, I tend to follow it to understand why I don't. It may be personality and that's why I said I should take a break from it. That being said, generally anytime someone says 'scum always do X, and town always do Y,' that's generally incorrect. I've seen scum dig in their heels about nonsense plenty of times.

[VP Baltar]

Sorting my reads because maybe this will help me have a better grasp:

My brothers in christ:

Firebringer
Klick

Good vibes:

Morning Tweet
furtiveglance
Cat Scratch Fever

Idk whatever:

Aristeia
SirCakez
Taly
Gimli
Lycanfire
Black

Stinky:

petapan
Alisae
Mistyx
redFF
Asri Teroka

Definitelyscum, no doubt:

[VP Baltar]

I think my next move needs to be taking a closer look at the idk, whatever group. There's too much middle ground here

[VP Baltar]

Black might be good vibes too. Feel like I'm generally agreeing with them, but I wanted to iso there

[VP Baltar]

alisae? why?

There were a couple opportunistic votes in there I didn't like. One was on me, and the other iirc was jumping on lycan when Klick outted the hood. Part of me gets the instinct to look at the hood, but it's also level zero to just auto assume scum has to be there.

[VP Baltar]

Baltar, explain Klick townread.

Outing the hood like that out of paranoia is town 99/100 times. Klick stan

[VP Baltar]

I think he just did it to distract people from scumreading him

Unfortunately, I fell for that fallacy with Nero in a game when I was in a hood with him. He was just town tho. The whole hood was town iirc, and it was a huge shitshow distraction.

[VP Baltar]

Datisi bastard mod. You heard it here first kids.

[VP Baltar]

My brothers in christ:
Firebringer

u put me in the wrong category bro

Ur 2 cute 2 b bad

[VP Baltar]

That's a different game. Outting a hood is not town 99% of the time, because what do you lose from outting it as Mafia? Nothing.

You lose the ability to sway people in a hood and potentially gain useful information.

[VP Baltar]

@redFF, why does CSF get a graph of reflection and everyone else gets one or two words?

[VP Baltar]

Baltar -

A lot of the issues I have with his play is that I don't think he's really interacting to sort people - it feels like he's just arguing with people to win arguments?

He's a journalist by trade so one of the things he does fairly well is to "frame" the issue in a way that's favorable to him for example:

709 1089 1090 1113 1156

I don't really think these posts are helping him sort people - it's just like he decided he was the referee of the argument and ruled that he was being extremely reasonable and like how could anyone disagree with him?

A lot of the questions he's asked are kind of surface level and I don't see how they really help him understand more about a player's alignment or thought process, it feels like interacting to interact rather than genuine curiosity/sorting.

Lastly his treatment of Klick as his lord and savior feels really weird and ??? to me like I don't really understand his treatment of Klick as his top townread and the rock that he leans on at all because like

1) why is klick his top townread? These are the only posts I found in his iso that really talk about the Klick TR and the only content is "because he outted the PT first", which imo isn't even like a great reason but the thing I don't like is how he first promises a towncase to Furtive telling him to back off then when Furtive asks for that towncase, he just handwaves and repeats the PT outting reason again. It feels like making a promise to get someone to fuck off and not really keeping it because you never really had a towncase or compelling reasons outside of "becuase he outted the hood" in the first place.

I think it's kind of bullshit that you're like "he's a journalist and he 'frames' things to his advantage" and then just link to posts and say I'm not sorting people. It feels very driven by assumptions that journalists are conniving and manipulate words or something, which is not what I'm doing at all in any of those posts. You say I'm being shallow and not trying to understand people...but literally the posts you quote are mostly me asking people to explain their thinking.

709 - Me asking Peta if he thinks my confidence is more of a problem than my reasoning on asri, which actually led to me productively understanding Peta's issue was rooted more in the confidence side of things. Wrong of him, but not unreasonable entirely. Good for me to understand.

1089 - those are just shitty posts from Peta and I don't see how you can look at those and say I'm the one being unreasonable there.

1090 - asking follow up questions to Cakez to understand where he is coming from.

1113 - me literally trying to check my own biases here.

1156 - again, asking Gimli his thought process on why he thinks I'm scummy. How is this surface level or not trying to understand people's motivations?

This is kind of a garbage list that looks like you're trying to beef up a case that doesn't really hold together.

As far as making a klick towncase, I can still do that. The hood thing is definitely the strongest bit of it to me, and I don't really care if you think that's not good reasoning. It is good reasoning from a psychological point of view, and I stand by it. I also think Klick has been fairly transparent in their thinking all game, and I tend to town read that.

I just got lazy yesterday and played video games instead of actually making a case or doing about 10 other things I keep telling myself to do this game. I've mostly been playing this game so far from my phone, and I'm finding that less than helpful for making cases or more deep divey work because I can't seem to get small quote selection to work on mobile, which is annoying.

[VP Baltar]

@redFF, why does CSF get a graph of reflection and everyone else gets one or two words?

who can say

Is this game just going to troll me ... Datisi put you all up to this didn't he?

[VP Baltar]

mistyx - this player is in this game? null i guess

redFF has just gained partner equity with mistyx just for this, and with asri for their weird af interaction. I'm happy w my vote.

cakez wagon seems to have lost momentum without him really doing anything?

VOTE: redFF

well that's interesting.

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: mistyxx

I could do this.

Someone at some point today said the previous redFF wagon was instructive. Maybe Morning Tweet? I'd be curious what was learned there.

[VP Baltar]

Baltar do you have a previous completed town game where you were so bent on "reasonable vs unreasonable", I can't remember off the top of my head sorry.

lol what? you're the one who said I was being "reasonable." I'm not bent on making that argument at all. Just responding to your chosen framing, so what are you even talking about?

[VP Baltar]

I don't understand your vote on me. I don't really think my play this game is different from pairs other than I'm trying not to get over sunk on reads like I did with Shea because that was bad.

You think I'm really being unreasonable by pushing asri to answer very basic questions? How else am I supposed to understand their alignment?

this is the post I'm refering to specifically - you are conflating "reasonableness with alignment" the presentation is that you are reasonable to pursue the line of play you did therefore his vote on you is unreasonable.

Overall from the posts I linked, I get the feeling you're more interested in presenting yourself as reasonable, I think you don't care as much about perception when you're actually town. I'm asking you about whether you've conflated "reasonableness with towniness" because it could just be that I'm misremembering how you think about alignment and you've actually done this as town in the past.

I don't think I'm doing what you're saying I'm doing at all. The word reasonable came up in a single post, and then again when you brought it up.

If I was worried about being seen as "reasonable", I wouldn't be arguing for a lim that almost nobody wants. I'd instead just go with the flow with something popular.

[VP Baltar]

I think it's kind of bullshit that you're like "he's a journalist and he 'frames' things to his advantage" and then just link to posts and say I'm not sorting people. It feels very driven by assumptions that journalists are conniving and manipulate words or something, which is not what I'm doing at all in any of those posts.

btw I do apologize if you took offense to what I said about journalism and what you do. I've never actually read any of your work and I don't mean to say you are a dishonest person. I've just seen many games where you are pretty good at narrative manipulation and twisting things around and that's an important skill for scum to have. I think maybe this kind of crossed the line a bit and I'd like it if we could both forget I said that about your work. Sorry again for that.

You don't have to apologize. I didn't take personal offense. Ur my friend and this is a game.

I just think you intentionally said that to imply I'm being manipulative, which I'm just not.

[VP Baltar]

they can both be scum? i dont see why it has to be one or the other. I am not losing a Datisi game to assumptions about Moderator meta.

Weren't you also kinda arguing with me that my klick townread is absurd? So you're shading like the whole hood here?

[VP Baltar]

Sounds like shading to me but ok.

[VP Baltar]

Cakez, red and mistyxx all look scummier the past four pages I skimmed.

That is all.

VOTE: cakez

[VP Baltar]

This one feels Gimli is fine, Tweeter of the Morn.

why

Why is Sir of the Cakez fine?

lol, yall realize this slot is going to have to go at some point right?

[VP Baltar]

This one feels Gimli is fine, Tweeter of the Morn.

why

Why is Sir of the Cakez fine?

lol, yall realize this slot is going to have to go at some point right?

i will temporarily make a truce with baltar to say the shitty unfunny gimmick alt should die

Olds alliance.

On a serious note, my point is that if Asri actually is town, scum are never going to kill there. Town would have to resolve by vig, cop or yeet. There's always a cost to be paid. I understand people town read gimmicks and lurking, but it's actually NAI.

Better to fix problems early rather than LimLo.

[VP Baltar]

Baltar really likes talking past this one. With such horrible intent this one isn't sure whether they should even be voting with Baltar.

Sir does feel bad though.

I tried talking to you multiple times and you said you weren't going to answer my questions. I already struggle enough keeping up in larges, I'm not going to waste time engaging if you're unwilling to do the same.

[VP Baltar]

You keep saying I'm being mean...what is mean?

[VP Baltar]

This one isn't here to dance to your tune. Get better reasons for hating this one, instead of repeating the same shallow gripes.

I'm being suspected for the wrong reasons!

[VP Baltar]

Sigh

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: asri

Because I'm mean

[VP Baltar]

I may be willing to compromise on redFF, though he did make me laugh a bit and I'm a sucker for that.

I'm hoping I can sneak some game time today because this game feels pretty adrift right now and we need to just yeet someone.

[VP Baltar]

Gimli all time champ! Sorry for replacing out friend. Was busy, but Shea did a good job picking up my slack.

[VP Baltar]

damn this postgame

Fucking legend. You deserve the good feels