Just me. Miller vig is a very funny role.In post 2401, camelCasedSnivy wrote:is that your role or the nightmare action??In post 2400, Radical Rat wrote: So it does.
Anyway, I killed CSF. Merlyn made me paranoid on the slot, figured that'd be the quickest way to resolve it. Only one shot though, so it won't have been me next time.
Weird Dreams Mafia Redux [Finished]
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I was afraid scum might be in there and block me if I announced.-
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Did you read the flips?In post 2417, Ircher wrote: It is a scum claim because it's a hiding in plain sight claim. Furthermore, there were three deaths.
Drew died doing his job and took Titus down with him.-
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StD is definitely capable of confidence as Town.-
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I was waiting to see what happened before saying this, but I can confirm it as accurateIn post 2439, Ranger wrote: For the record, Doctor Drewheavilyimplied he bodyguarded usesPython last night.
Given he's near-certainly the source of the Titus death, I'm treating usesPython as conftown.
Otherwise, hard-reset of everything.-
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The other example I had in my mind was also Cephrir, so maybe you're right actually.-
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I want to jump ahead of this and request that you wait to share your findings until everyone has checked in.In post 2444, Ranger wrote: With a certainty of a traitor present, it would be wise to search for signaling.
When I reread, I'll see if I spot anything.-
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?In post 2473, Flea The Magician wrote: Yeah I wonder if I made their job harder...-
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Python, take a look back at Nightmare Post #163, and the page around it.
You see the same thing I see?-
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Everyone else who was in there can look too. Just something worth keeping in mind as people trickle in I think.-
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Slipped through my radar because Titus didn't keep repeatedly bringing it up and had a lower thread presence I guess.-
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All I needed to hear.
VOTE: Kyoko Kirigiri-
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So here's the thing.
We did vote to give Kirigiri an invention.
Titus was the fifth vote. After the hammer, AND after Korina announced the hammer.
At the time, I wrote it off as Titus not paying attention. But with her flip, and the lack of Kirigiri's corpse... I now believe it was a performative attempt at distancing.-
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You're wrong.
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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Reread Korina's hammer announcement in the Nightmare and you'll have a clear answer to that.
But also, trust me on this. She's scum.-
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It's not flavor, it's the mechanics.-
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I see. Unfortunately, that has no bearing on Kirigiri's alignment.-
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Fine. I didn't want to have to spell it out, but I will.
The invention we awarded Kirigiri was Bulletproof Mason. This was to extend the life of the BP, and also to provide cult immunity.
I was careful in my arguments to stay hypothetical, but the reason I was so confident this would work is because I'm a mason. That's why I have access to a PT, as has been publicly confirmed now.
Kirigiri did not show up in my masonry. Korina explicitly stated the Nightmare Award could not be stopped or redirected. Therefore, Kirigiri is scum.-
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Yes it does. I discussed this extensively with my partners and Korina before suggesting it in the Nightmare.In post 2529, Rautherdir wrote: .... That ability does not work the way you think it works-
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That's fine, we need a nightmare lineup also.In post 2528, usesPython wrote: ah ok cool. This game has day roles so you mind if everyone checks in before we finish this flashwagon?
UNVOTE:
I don't want to propose it and spew my partners, but obviously Kirigiri's out.-
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I did actually make up the part where it creates a new masonry. I never asked about that since I knew the target would join mine anyway, and it'd never come up.In post 2531, usesPython wrote:
It does, town that gets awarded the Mason invention gets added to an existing masonry if one exists or creates a new masonry with themselves if none existIn post 2529, Rautherdir wrote: .... That ability does not work the way you think it works-
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Seems pretty clear-cut to me.In post 434, Korina wrote:In post 273, Rautherdir wrote:@Korina: can the invention that isawardedto a player slot through the nightmare redux be redirected to be awarded to another player slot by player abilities?No, nothing awarded via the Nightmare can be prevented or redirected due to it not being considered a player action. Any actions a player takes with a Nightmare reward can be, unless the player’s role states otherwise.-
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We have explicit mod confirmation that this would be impossible.-
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With this knowledge, we can also conclude that either at least one person on this list is scum, or one person in the nightmare last night is cult. Which to pursue depends on the flip.In post 1552, Kyoko Kirigiri wrote: HURT: Doctor Drew, usesPython, Abnegation, Aureal, camelCasedSnivy, Save the Dragons, Radical Rat-
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I'm okay with this.In post 2544, camelCasedSnivy wrote: maybe replace kyoko with ranger? their 1v1 makes me think ranger is town regardless-
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Unless your argument is that someone has specifically a delayed vanillizer that takes place at day-start, there's nothing that could have possibly happened. Even if it's a normal day ability, you should have entered the masonry then been removed when it went off.In post 2545, Kyoko Kirigiri wrote:
Are you saying if you give someone a role through invention and they get vandalized they keep that role?In post 2542, Radical Rat wrote: We have explicit mod confirmation that this would be impossible.
The mod confirmation says nothing can stop the invention from reaching that person, not that the role they get cant be blocked/will be immortal-
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Since it's not an active ability, it's not one shot. She would have been added to the masonry permanently, which is one of the major advantages over IC.In post 2558, Rautherdir wrote: So... how does one shot mason even work?-
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Would you mind tagging out with KKFC actually? Nothing personal, it's just that you were one of the ones on Kirigiri's proposal we don't already know is Town, so safety first.
HURT: KatyKimFanClub, usesPython, Ranger, sheepsaysmeep, Abnegation, Radical Rat, Rautherdir-
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Slightly awkward dreams? Dreams that you remember vividly until you try to tell someone and suddenly there's nothing?In post 2581, Aureal wrote: Cult or SK would be scum unaligned with Titus. Multiball technically possible but seems unlikely due to kill count. Also we've got Good Dreams and Evil Dreams so WTF would they be, the Annoying Dreams?-
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The third one is the one that published results on me publicly.In post 2588, KatyKimFanClub wrote:
Did I miss the third one? Or are you assuming that scum has one if town has two?In post 2472, usesPython wrote: I just realized this game has 3+ Traffic Analysts wtf-
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Okay so here's a fun one.
Let's say, hypothetically, you did successfully receive the mason role, which you claim happened, and then something removed it somehow.
As part of receiving the mason role, you should have been told about your fellow masons, maybe even given a link to a PT you didn't actually have permission to enter since it was subsequently revoked.
Obviously, that didn't happen. So it's completely irrelevant if anything could have removed it, or isolated you from the PT.-
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That is your claim, yes. But Korina has made it clear that if the invention failed for any reason, you wouldn't have been told you received it. And if you did successfully receive it, but had it stripped afterwards, you should have received the information associated with the role. Otherwise, you never ACTUALLY received it, and thus would not have known it was even attempted.In post 2613, Kyoko Kirigiri wrote:
I received a mason bp role and were not told who are my mason partners nor I was added to a pt. That is literally what happenedIn post 2610, Radical Rat wrote: Okay so here's a fun one.
Let's say, hypothetically, you did successfully receive the mason role, which you claim happened, and then something removed it somehow.
As part of receiving the mason role, you should have been told about your fellow masons, maybe even given a link to a PT you didn't actually have permission to enter since it was subsequently revoked.
Obviously, that didn't happen. So it's completely irrelevant if anything could have removed it, or isolated you from the PT.-
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Doesn't have to, but has explicitly stated that it would be the case.-
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About NAR.In post 2624, Radical Rat wrote: Doesn't have to, but has explicitly stated that it would be the case.-
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The traffic analysts would have been a big help, but uh........... someone killed two of themIn post 2633, sheepsaysmeep wrote: tbh I have literally no clue how to play against cult-
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I mean, you gotta admit, this would be one hell of a cult play-
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Masonry with an open-door policy.-
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'Salright, I also could have waited to reveal, but I got antsy-
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It is. She DID leave crumbs, but they were well hidden enough that I don't think scum would have seen them naturally.
However I was also in what seemed to be a minority position townreading her, so maybe they guessed based on that?
Only one kill is good though, means that assuming cult functions similarly to the last iteration, they probably didn't successfully recruit anyone N1.-
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Kirigiri flipped scum. Her proposal includes neither herself nor Titus, the other flipped scum. It seems unlikely that scum would be suggesting a Nightmare without them, and Abnegation/StD/Snivy are the ones in her proposal that don't have strong evidence pointing toward them not being scum.
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It's possible, but it's a weird risk to take.-
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My guess is that keeping Ranger out was the primary motivation behind offering the alternative-
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You've read what the Nightmare does, right?In post 2687, Ircher wrote:
Is being in the nightmare really that much of an advantage?In post 2684, Radical Rat wrote: It's possible, but it's a weird risk to take.
Scum having influence over that decision, and knowledge of its outcome, is a HUGE advantage.-
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Last version of this setup had one, and it's a Korina game, and there's at least three Traffic Analyzers, so... I think it's a pretty safe bet.In post 2688, Ircher wrote:
Do we actually know there's a cult, or are we just assuming because it's a Korina game?In post 2676, Radical Rat wrote: It is. She DID leave crumbs, but they were well hidden enough that I don't think scum would have seen them naturally.
However I was also in what seemed to be a minority position townreading her, so maybe they guessed based on that?
Only one kill is good though, means that assuming cult functions similarly to the last iteration, they probably didn't successfully recruit anyone N1.-
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I hope things go well for you and your friend. Take all the time you need to.In post 2689, Ranger wrote:Severely V/LA indefinitely
Apologies. A friend's indefinitely in a dire situation. A great amount of my free time will be dedicated to helping them.
I'll still be able to keep current, with reads/votes/feedback. I'll be unable to reread, or likely even case. I know I promised to. Apologies. I literally can't. Friend > games.-
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Well, we were trying to create a Bulletproof IC, which... I think scum would very much have liked to get ahead of? To both shoot the target before it took effect (if they knew about that ahead of time), and/or try to steer it away from being a guilty instead (which they were unsuccessful in doing, but doesn't mean they wouldn't want to try).
It's the kind of thing I'd be very firm about interfering with if I were on the scumteam.-
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I am aware of this. But just in case he's not, or for the benefit of others who may be swayed by his words, I don't mind a bit of discussion of questionable faith.-
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Aureal was Town???In post 2708, camelCasedSnivy wrote:
replace dragon and abne with 2 other people (preferably me but aureal's kindness was a LITERAL scum move)In post 2706, Ircher wrote: HURT: usesPython, Ranger, Morning Tweet, sheepsaysmeep, Radical Rat DragonEater70, Abnegation-
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This is an EXCELLENT question that I will be looking into immediatelyIn post 2723, Rautherdir wrote: I mean, everyone else in that list could make the same argument. Except usesPython given we're pretty sure they were the night kill target that first night.
... ACTUALLY. We're still missing whoever force put Drew into the Nightmare. Is there any overlap between people who were active then and people who were in Kirigiri's list? (I ask because I am too occupied to look myself right now...)-
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There is not.-
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Flea, me, DragonEater, and Ranger were the active parties.
Of those four, I was the only one in the proposal, but. I obviously know I didn't do it, and I think there's enough actual evidence to dispel any possible doubts on me as well.-
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I went to check, and while it is true that no scum made it in (except you, but no Mafia at least), All of the scum who were voting were voting for at least one scum member. Kawaii and Empath were voting for each other and themselves, and Meg voted for themself. Clone wasn't voting for Nightmares.In post 2736, Morning Tweet wrote:
I do this as scum a fair bit. In fact i dont think any scum got into the nightmare last game, at least some sscum had to have been proposing townIn post 2734, Rautherdir wrote: Even then it would still be odd for scum to make a list of town reads and not have any partners on it. Not out of the question, but.
But.. yea
Nightmare voting and functionality was slightly different that game, and none of these players returned, so I don't know how transferable that is... but it's certainly not a point against scum wanting to be in-
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I think Ranger was a relatively safe push to make at the time, yeah. Most people tend to gloss over wallfights and go "Eh, probably TvT" I think.-
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Not intentionally, no. But she was in my nightmare proposals and a consistent townread that I didn't have good reasons for.-
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Could've been one-shot?-
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Or odd-night-
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I think we should massclaim tomorrow regardless-
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I will have input on this later.
Masonry is still in mourning, haven't agreed on decisions yet.-
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I think I'm still leaning Mafia with the goal of getting us to mislim him, but... why Drew specifically? Kirigiri tried to use it in her push on Ranger, in which case Ranger's posting would be why Drew was chosen, but Kirigiri wasn't the first to float that idea... I'd have to go check and see who was. I know I was pushing it, but I think specifically the "Ranger using puns is crumbing/signaling" take started with someone else.In post 2774, usesPython wrote: The fast d2 kinda sucks because it makes it harder to spot Cult through trajectory analysis
UNVOTE: Abnegation
RR how likely do you think it was specifically Mafia that put Drew in the nightmare instead of 3p/Cult/Traitor?
I don't think Cult would do it, because that generates a lot of unnecessary attention, and Cult doesn't NEED anyone specific in the Nightmare, they can just recruit someone out of it.
3P is a maybe, but we can reasonably infer at this point that there's no SK, though maybe a Condemner would make sense? In which case, no longer a need to worry about it though.
Traitor, I know Korina has historically implemented as knowing their partners, so I would expect them to just nom a partner, but it could have been a chaos play I suppose-
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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My personal ranking would be Snivy > StD > Abnegation, in descending order of scumminess.In post 2776, usesPython wrote:
Also would be nice to get a scumminess order in ccs/abne/std from y'all when you have the timeIn post 2772, Radical Rat wrote: I will have input on this later.
Masonry is still in mourning, haven't agreed on decisions yet.-
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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Well, the cult leader won't have an original role, plus if we pool together actions and results we might have a way to find cult from the claims that way.
An obvious example, though one that can't really happen anymore, is if Wheme had gotten a result of no PT N1, and then CSF got a result of yes PT N2, which basically means the target was either cult recruited or a traitor.
Other things that might still be possible would be things like rolecop, gunsmith, bloodhound, people added to suspicious neighborhoods, the role that reveals non-Town in Nightmares, etc.
I think we're PROBABLY okay waiting until tomorrow, but a massclaim is definitely still good for hunting cult/3P-
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All TradesThey/Them
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