Datisi's University [game over!]

[Dannflor]

first

[Dannflor]

VOTE: Aristeia

[Dannflor]

VOTE: furtiveglance

[Dannflor]

maybe pretectives too? idk 19 players yeah

not a good idea

[Dannflor]

I’m pretty sure Ranger makes that post or a post very much like it regardless of her role or alignment

I think she had the exact same opening in datisi’s cafe too

[Dannflor]

I honestly don’t even remember

Why

[Dannflor]

Ah right it was Mastina

[Dannflor]

VOTE: ina marija

[Dannflor]

because...

because :/

[Dannflor]

nah i dont care about the protectives thing you probably are even correct

[Dannflor]

ina did you do a lot of thinking about this setup before the game started

[Dannflor]

ok can we stop talking about the protective stuff i don't think that's a useful line of discussion

[Dannflor]

because...

because :/

+/

idk maybe approach to roles is unfun or whatever but i don’t really get what you’re saying re:pretectives

like why it’d be unwise for them to just submit 100%

and i don’t really get how you possibly hope to sort me by just voting me

or to give me anything to see if coming from town who just disagrees with me or so, shrug

I wasn't planning on freezing you out for more than a hot second, I was just curious what would happen

I don't care really about the setup spec except that I agree night kills are the most overpowered thing to happen to the game of mafia and avoiding those at all costs is good - I think in that case protectives would be the last class I'd want studying fulltime but still probably net positive

my worry about your slot stems just from the fact that you've come in with a lot of energy but not a lot of substance. it's like you want to be seen posting a lot and *doing things* but I don't get the sense yet that there is a curious mind behind it all

I just get alarm bells ringing whenever someone makes their entrance solely focused around mech talk that is very easy to have come up with before your alignment even showed up in your inbox

and then I don't really understand why you'd make 42 or what exactly the question was going to tell you about Ranger's alignment in this game. it feels making posts to making posts vibes.

I guess it would be most helpful to me right now to elaborate on what you meant in 45. what's weird about it if its truthful?

[Dannflor]

okay sorry will drop i guess

I mean it's probably fine I just don't like it on principle because I feel like it's an easy discussion to hide behind

[Dannflor]

ok actually i changed my mind VOTE: drew

ina you're off the hook

[Dannflor]

What do you think about Ina, Drew? So far the only thing I've got is a raised eyebrow.

Kinda the same, I know how they can be posting wise. But I have pings about they are a bit different here, I kinda feel they could put me in their pocket.

Like I don't love the dann vote on them, but want to see where it goes.

drew what exactly pings different about it here

what about their posting makes you feel like they are or could pocket you

[Dannflor]

like i guess i don’t know what you think I was supposed to post about

unless the answer is simply that i probably wasn’t supposed to post, which yes that’s probably always true

was excited

i wanted you to have the game solved

[Dannflor]

truthfully i think i let myself get overly annoyed by the mech talk in rvs bc that's just a pet peeve of mine

im sorry if i like squashed your excitement or fun or anything

i dont really have a read on you anymore

[Dannflor]

in my heart of hearts dusa is town for calling someone scum for being nice to me

[Dannflor]

ok actually i changed my mind VOTE: drew

ina you're off the hook

Ina's not off the hook with me as filler mechanics talk is something I would love as scum. It demotivates town and gets info at the same time. I'm not lock scumming her but I'd like to see that brain process interactions as she's smart enough to.

idk i kinda buy ina was excited about it

idk that it's actually AI either way

[Dannflor]

ranger do you have a hipfire reads list yet

[Dannflor]

So that being said:
VOTE: Dannflor

do you wanna talk about this?

[Dannflor]

Dusa, can you explain what the demigod stuff means? I think it's the only thing I don't understand in the thread so far.

is that actually the only thing you want to interact with so far?

[Dannflor]

ranger do you have a hipfire reads list yet

Haven't actually read anything yet, I'm mid-date rn. I wasn't planning to be here seriously until 6-24 hours from now; when I saw discussion headed in an uncomfortable direction, I felt a need to clarify immediately and not let it continue. You'll see me in earnest later.

ah, apologies for putting it in that direction to begin with

have a wonderful date!

[Dannflor]

Dusa, can you explain what the demigod stuff means? I think it's the only thing I don't understand in the thread so far.

is that actually the only thing you want to interact with so far?

Do you understand what it means - what kind of read it expresses?

she’s roleplaying as Dusa from the acclaimed video game hades and using greek myth references to explain her reads

Do you have any thoughts on ina or ranger or me

[Dannflor]

oh man come on, what the fuck? why are there 6 pages already?

has there been a statistical analysis done on this kind of post

[Dannflor]

What do you think about Ina, Drew? So far the only thing I've got is a raised eyebrow.

Kinda the same, I know how they can be posting wise. But I have pings about they are a bit different here, I kinda feel they could put me in their pocket.

Like I don't love the dann vote on them, but want to see where it goes.

drew what exactly pings different about it here

what about their posting makes you feel like they are or could pocket you

@drew

[Dannflor]

What do you think about Ina, Drew? So far the only thing I've got is a raised eyebrow.

Kinda the same, I know how they can be posting wise. But I have pings about they are a bit different here, I kinda feel they could put me in their pocket.

Like I don't love the dann vote on them, but want to see where it goes.

drew what exactly pings different about it here

what about their posting makes you feel like they are or could pocket you

@drew

Well they could pocket me because I think they know I am familiar with their interesting posting style.

But, I will still stand by there was a bit more to their potential role fishing.....they even seemed self aware about it when I called them out on it when I didn't know who their alt was.

You didn’t really answer what exactly is different about ina’s posting here compared to previous experiences you’ve had with it.

What more is there to the “potential role fishing”? Are you saying it is scummy? If so why did you not join me on her wagon and say you “didn’t love my vote?”

[Dannflor]

Honest question, how does a player pocket another player?

by crafting their posts around a certain player, doing and saying things they expect X player to town read

Katy, why are these the questions you are choosing to ask? I feel like there’s a lot you could possibly sink your teeth into and yet, the only probes you’ve probed don’t really seem oriented towards solving the game

What’s going on in your head

[Dannflor]

I really like Fire Assassin's 137

I had been getting similar vibes from Dusa's posts - I'm a bit torn on whether it's AI or whether it's just her character roleplay + general early game awkwardness, but the fact that FA directly called it out makes me feel good that he is town.

This strikes me as a strange post to highlight from FA’s ISO? I don’t necessarily disagree with the read but calling Dusa performative does not seem like a hard post to make

[Dannflor]

I agree about the Titus offness

I thought she was a little... uncharitable? towards ina

which makes the absence of a vote weirder

[Dannflor]

What do you think about Ina, Drew? So far the only thing I've got is a raised eyebrow.

I also had a raised eyebrow about Ina's tone but this just seems like the way that she talks in general. I also couldn't think of any scummy or towny behavior that her strange tone might indicate.

Without giving all the usual caveats (uncertainty blah blah), I actually think this is the scummiest post so far.

Andres, I'm curious why this didn't accompany a vote?

[Dannflor]

This looks like quite a superficial joke to me, why the points?

I don't know what you mean by superficial. It was a town mindset response to the strategy proposed.

No, it was a sardonic remark about Ranger's claim of being good at scumhunting.

Is this engagement actually useful for you. If not, then I am done here.

regarding FA

this post struck me as like, probably too unfriendly/abrupt to be intuitive for a scum player this early on in the game? it feels like most scum players would welcome any line of questioning just so they had something to post

I'll admit I'm not familiar with this player though

[Dannflor]

I feel good about this wagon

[Dannflor]

I'd kinda like some explanations from the dusa voters

i can get behind VOTE: dusa

and this one especially stood out - I don't really think anyone else gave much of a reason for Dusa

what exactly can you get behind here?

[Dannflor]

or wait it's just osuka and ari

for some reason I thought there were more

regardless i wanna know what osuka is getting behind

[Dannflor]

bluesnakelet did you come up with that post pre-game be honest now

[Dannflor]

Now that I posted VOTE: JJH has to post and tell us about his holiday

why did you vote here and not ina who has been a little "sussy"

[Dannflor]

Thoughts on GL, Andres and Drew?

idk guiltylion and andresvmb thoughts seem mostly reasonable and interactions feel fine if a little, like, intended to happen maybe

but that can just as easily be explained by familiarity with other players as anything else

and doctor drew feels maybe less angled here than in my experience but that experience is limited

why those three?

Angled? Can you explain? Everyone has an agenda. It's about solving what it is. For instance, I liked your lack of defensiveness and not mech talking. Not sure I follow this completely but I feel it's honest.

GuiltyLion and Andres seem pretty close but I know we need some people working together to get the game going. They want Drew and I don't get why.

Titus can you expand more on your thoughts on GL and Andres. Do you have actual reads on either of them?

I feel like GL explained pretty clearly why he was voting Drew

I've also been wanting Drew and I'm not sure why you aren't engaging with me if you town read me so

[Dannflor]

Now that I posted VOTE: JJH has to post and tell us about his holiday

why did you vote here and not ina who has been a little "sussy"

Why are you telling him where to vote?

And why Ina and not me?

I'm not telling Wheme to vote ina I'm asking why Wheme didn't vote a scum read instead of someone who hasn't posted

[Dannflor]

On that note, I am debating moving my vote to Drew or Ari, not for scum reasons but I don't TR them either and woot VCA.

do it!!

[Dannflor]

what do you find towny about Drew, Ranger?

[Dannflor]

I'd like a Dusa

Aristeia, please elaborate on your drew read

I could go for a Dusa read too

[Dannflor]

dusa dusa dusa

[Dannflor]

@drew, what's going on in your head

what are your most conviction-y reads? why are you still sitting on your rvs vote?

[Dannflor]

This looks like quite a superficial joke to me, why the points?

I don't know what you mean by superficial. It was a town mindset response to the strategy proposed.

No, it was a sardonic remark about Ranger's claim of being good at scumhunting.

Is this engagement actually useful for you. If not, then I am done here.

regarding FA

this post struck me as like, probably too unfriendly/abrupt to be intuitive for a scum player this early on in the game? it feels like most scum players would welcome any line of questioning just so they had something to post

I'll admit I'm not familiar with this player though

I said this

it's mostly a tone read. but also just the way FA is interacting with people does not strike me as trying to get people to like them, feels very "business oriented"

I also thought, while not unfakeable, 159 was town indicative

pedit: i didn't rlly think GL's post was a reason to town read FA for anyone but GL?

[Dannflor]

aristeia can certainly fake a town thought process and believable reads

is your issue jjh that she hasn’t explained them enough, or that her explanations are just bad

[Dannflor]

why is drew town furtive

[Dannflor]

I don’t hate an osuka wagon

[Dannflor]

blue snakelet why did you choose to sheep me

why are you townreading me if that is why

[Dannflor]

I found osuka’s treatment of Dusa kind of… uncharitable (hehe) in a way I wouldn’t expect coming from someone approaching the game with a curious mind. Ie: it didn’t seem like osuka tried to figure out Dusa that hard and instead sees an easy target

I’m also have just felt that osuka’s thought streamy catch up posts are very easy for scum to fake, and i haven’t seen anything outside of that mode yet

394 pinged me because it’s just “oh! Here are some thoughts I’ve had in the past” without really saying anything substantial

A lot of osuka’s posts seem to be in that mode of “let me commentate or say what my reaction was” which is like the easiest form of content to make

now this could be because osuka hasn’t had enough time yet to get caught up and fully invested in the game yet, but i still feel like osuka would tend more towards direct engagement rather than the distant though stream mode as town

The thought stream mode seems LAMIST in itself if that makes sense

[Dannflor]

Ari do you think jjh is scum?

[Dannflor]

Why do you have Titus as town, RCE?

[Dannflor]

A lot of osuka’s posts seem to be in that mode of “let me commentate or say what my reaction was” which is like the easiest form of content to make

now this could be because osuka hasn’t had enough time yet to get caught up and fully invested in the game yet, but i still feel like osuka would tend more towards direct engagement rather than the distant though stream mode as town

The thought stream mode seems LAMIST in itself if that makes sense

the (admittedly weak) thing that struck me as townie in osuka's posts was the 416 to 418 progression - it's not impossible to fake as scum but I think it's less likely for scum players to do that kind of reversal (case + vote, realize later posts resolve something you didn't like, unvote) because it just comes across sloppy. I can imagine it if scum!osuka is just trying to play how he thinks he would as town, but usually I give that stuff some amount of towncred, kinda similar to Dusa's double post towntell she mentioned earlier. When I play scum I try to be mostly caught up before I do anything and that makes me more likely to stick to planned trajectories rather than make a show of vote+case, unvote

idk I want more from osuka, wouldn't really strongly object to a wagon as it stands, just wanted to share this take. and furtive's overall push+reasoning feels genuine to me so that's good

GL, that progression is like, kinda part of the broader problem I have with that slot


I think that type of progression is like, very very easy to make as scum when you are in Catch Up Mode™. the case in 416 has like no risk attached to posting it because it's about something that happened a long time ago (relatively). Like there's a good chance it's no longer relevant, and it's much easier to make towny looking content when you are just observing as you go because you don't have to worry about the risk as much


osuka did the same thing with Dusa in 417. It's just making an observation, then going "never mind" when you see something more relevant (or even going never never mind like osuka does in 422. it feels like the illusion of content to me because none of the takes actually have any stake in what is going on in the game right now

I think it would strike me as more towny if it happened in a more real time interaction I think, or if osuka left the thread and then came back to something that changed his mind - rather then it just being "reactions" as he continues to read new pages

I've just seen a lot of scum coast on that type of content for a long time because it's really easy to look like you're having towny read progressions while you are in that mode, and so far I haven't seen anything from osuka that breaks into a town tell

[Dannflor]

@Drew, can you like, please, engage with the game a little bit?

I feel like you are trying to respond to the wagon in a towny way by uh, ignoring it

but if you are town this response of doing nothing is like, not helping anyone. do you really have no thoughts about anyone who has joined the wagon on you? how are you expecting people to figure you out?

it just feels like you are determined to act unbothered by the pressure but I feel like town!you would at least be moved by it, a little? am i wrong?

[Dannflor]

Like, she felt that her only way out was to paint me as scum and worked backwards from there

She's not tried to work with me or understand my perspective at all despite me laying it out

is she doing that tho

[Dannflor]

idk maybe it's boredom but I am increasingly not feeling the drew wagon

[Dannflor]

i think a jjh!scum world makes most sense with drew!town being an "easy miselim" that jjh wants to build town cred off of

[Dannflor]

VOTE: osuka

[Dannflor]

something about 597 seems so pure

am i getting soft

[Dannflor]

I am like pretty comfortable with [ina, GL, Fire Assassin] as town right now

I wish that list was a little longer

[Titus, Drew, Ari, Dusa] I can all see as town if i squint at them enough such that I probably don’t want to go anywhere there today

[Dannflor]

why are you so confident aristeia flips red?

I've seen her iso and feel she's not bothering to hide her scum role PM. I thought it obvious if anyone viewed; if it truly wasn't, then I'll say simply: gut. Her posts appear lifeless. She's putting effort in, sure, yet I don't see effort to actually solve; I see effort to poster, positioning for manipulation. I don't see a vibrant iso. She's devoid of passion.

I can't point to examples

now

, yet may be able to in the future.

See, I agree Aristeia isn’t exactly trying to crack the game wide open right now - but i don’t think she has to be scum for that to be true

There is a possibility my read here is biased simply because I’m finding myself relating to her here. I’ve entered a lot of games, especially large theme games like she has this game, as town

But also I just disagree that Ari is putting in effort to “position for manipulation” or any such thing like that. Can you point to specific posts where you see her doing that, Ranger? Because that seems made up.

In fact, I feel a distinct lack of care from Ari about her “position” in the game, which I would definitely expect out of her scum game and I think one of the qualities Guilty Lion was expecting to carry over from Turing Test. Instead, it feels like Ari is approaching this like someone who doesn’t have a lot of information about the game or gamestate

I’ve generally liked her reaction to jjh’s pressure, it’s more nuanced than OMGUS which i think can be difficult for scum when someone is ramping up the pressure as much as jjh is. Idk it’s definitely not like out of scum range but right now the *lack of positioning* is pointing me in a townwards direction

[Dannflor]

Nuanced in what way? I’m on the other side of the fence with her reaction to jjhs pressure.

I haven’t read through the extended interaction.

I don’t necessarily scumread ari off of it but it always rubs me the wrong way when slots hem and haw over being asked to explain their thought process or expand on a surface idea. Because as town you are inherently thinking about how your reads on a slot relate to the way the game is moving no?

why are you asking me about this before reading through their extended interaction?

for me it has more to do with how she's treating jjh. I think there are a few ways scum tends to deal with that kind of situation and the extended pressure jjh has exerted. one of the common kinds is OMGUS, it gives an easy outlet for content while deflecting the pressure. another common kind is to just call the pusher a wrong or stubborn townie and dismiss it. and while Ari has kind of done the latter, their interactions gave me the sense Ari was trying to work out which world jjh was coming from, she didn't just default to that position

[Dannflor]

I don’t know why but this game feels so sluggish in terms of wagons building

[Dannflor]

but this is to say I’d probably join a whemestar wagon too

[Dannflor]

What are your current thoughts on Drew, GL?

[Dannflor]

Drew's posting as of late has felt fairly agendaless and pure as well but until he actually sinks his teeth into a scumread or putting pressure somewhere I don't think I'll be able to feel comfortable seeing him as town. I didn't like that he volunteered himself as a sheep and yet still has made no real effort to help build a wagon. but on the other hand I have been thinking that he's been signaling suspicion of jjh which is a weird thing to do as mafia if town!jjh has been one of the main people trying to steer attention towards somebody else

I think this is a pretty good summary of where I'm at, I don't really feel *mafia* pings anymore

I wouldn't stake my life on it but I'm comfortable kickstarting some other wagons

[Dannflor]

the Dann townread feels like a read for the sake of a read

to be honest I'm feeling that with a number of the town reads on me this game and it's making me paranoid

[Dannflor]

I thought Sail's might be scummy because he went in depth on a town read when a number of people had already expressed one on me (something something it's easier to fake analysis when you know a bunch of people already agree with you)

but like so many other slots have done a similar thing since then I'm not even sure that it's scum indicative for Sail

I give minor town points to RCE just for going against the grain a little

[Dannflor]

I really like how Dannflor tried to sort ina in 72, and then his progression to 78. 72 had an underlying thought process which I don’t think scum would bother to fake this early. In 78 I can’t think of any scum motivation for Dannflor to try and drop the conversation, other than mech of course.

like idk this read on me felt circular in a way that rubbed me the wrong way but maybe I'm just being oversensitive to the reads on me right now

[Dannflor]

If Whemestar flips town I would lim Norwegian in a heartbeat for this TMI-feeling defense

[Dannflor]

WhemeStar spoke only of recent things, more like someone who is going to be graded than someone independently studying with a curious heart! I fear punishment too..

I think they picked unimportant stories too!

I don't want to join GuiltyLion though.. I don't trust him right now.. join bad company and you end up with a broken vase on the ground and sharing the blame!

how about osuka

[Dannflor]

You’d lim me for being good at the game?
Damn dannyboi

your skills would be too powerful

[Dannflor]

but actually whemestar falls strictly into needs to post more territory

and even if you did have a genuine town read there I'm not sure why you'd oppose pressure on that slot

[Dannflor]

VOTE: norwegianboy

[Dannflor]

that is one reason she listed

[Dannflor]

other than dusa posts do you have any thoughts on content instead of performativeness?

I don't think that they're mutually exclusive. I'm not sure if this is exactly what I was talking about, but I'll take this as a question about writing style, playing a character, performative posting etc.

If you're saying that osuka is the kind of player that plays a bit of a character all the time, in a similar way to someone like HEM maybe, then I'll take that as a counter to my point about what I saw as fake confidence/bravado in their posting.

But my point still remains about Dusa, and how osuka seemed to be expecting a level of posting from Dusa of all people that I don't think many players in the game have met, including osuka themself.

I think the issue that osuka pointed out with Dusa isn't that Dusa low-content, but rather that Dusa posted a lot but did mostly fluff in those posts.

I take issue with osuka's treatment of Dusa because I don't think Dusa has posted a lot of fluff? I think it's easy to get the impression of fluff by not reading her posts closely because her gimmick is fluffy, but like, the content ratio has been pretty high for Dusa imo

[Dannflor]

the more i think about it, the less ridiculous it seems

[Dannflor]

yah there's some fluff. But i think that at the crucial moments they have shown to have some real substance too their thoughts.
This post shows an conclusion about a lot of different circumstances that all required real thinking.

Ok I’m caught up

Thoughts thoughts thoughts

-surprised I’m not on bottom of rangers readslists what’s going on Ranger
-initially townread 1 of jjh’s posts but don’t really like their pressuring on ari
-I thought osukas catchup was rly towny idk how ppl are scumreading it
-dusas ari/ranger vote was weird and I’m still thinking to myself if scum places those votes like that cause it seems like such an obvious ping

I wouldn't call it strong evidence but it did make me raise an eyebrow at how you were claiming that they "have no substance behind their posts".

I just don't believe this read Norwegian

that post takes no real stances, it's hedgy, and it doesn't directly engage with anyone.

the only real stance taken is a town read on osuka, that's barely content. there is no substance in this post! I can't really gauge whether this makes Whemestar town or scum until Whemestar shows up with the supposed substance that is supposed to be behind this post

but the fact that you so strongly see substance behind the post feels like that's only the case because you *know* it is there

[Dannflor]

other than dusa posts do you have any thoughts on content instead of performativeness?

I don't think that they're mutually exclusive. I'm not sure if this is exactly what I was talking about, but I'll take this as a question about writing style, playing a character, performative posting etc.

If you're saying that osuka is the kind of player that plays a bit of a character all the time, in a similar way to someone like HEM maybe, then I'll take that as a counter to my point about what I saw as fake confidence/bravado in their posting.

But my point still remains about Dusa, and how osuka seemed to be expecting a level of posting from Dusa of all people that I don't think many players in the game have met, including osuka themself.

I think the issue that osuka pointed out with Dusa isn't that Dusa low-content, but rather that Dusa posted a lot but did mostly fluff in those posts.

I take issue with osuka's treatment of Dusa because I don't think Dusa has posted a lot of fluff? I think it's easy to get the impression of fluff by not reading her posts closely because her gimmick is fluffy, but like, the content ratio has been pretty high for Dusa imo

Yeah, I agree! I'm leaning towards Dusa being town too, mostly based on vibes and the fact that we had some similar thoughts at the same time.

Another point regarding osuka is that the behavior of not properly reading posts could be from disengaged town. But osuka doesn't give off a disengaged vibe at all. He has been actively asking questions and participating in discussions. Plus a lot of the questions he posed didn't seem to contribute much to the overall direction of the conversation.

I agree re: osuka

I think if osuka was actually disengaged when catching up that would be apparent, instead the treatment of Dusa pinged me because it feels agend-y for lack of a better word. osuka has a role that he wants Dusa to fill.

it's kind of the difference between osuka and whemestar for me right now

whemestar still feels like disengaged town world is a possiblity, I don't really see that as likely for osuka

[Dannflor]

i kind of wonder if whemestar was skimming the thread and didn't even realize that their town read was the same person pushing osuka

[Dannflor]

Sail is probably town if I put aside my early game pocket paranoia

[Dannflor]

kinda think norwegian doubling down on a strong town read of whemestar is a panic reaction

[Dannflor]

like this is not a situation where a soul read is justified

[Dannflor]

I wish you'd led with 716 norwe

[Dannflor]

lead*

VOTE: osuka

I think jjh is more likely to be scum out of Ari/jjh, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility for that to be TvT

and I'm kind of of the GL frame of mind where a miselim on jjh feels a little too risky

[Dannflor]

You're all mistaking a low-content slot as being scum. Now the complete irony is that you're now all claiming he is town which is my exact conclusion. Although for an different reason: (The logic: I am scum, so me protecting them is TMI that shows it is an town slot and i flundered the protection)
The problem with this logic is that Wheme objectively is more likely town here. Their posts are good content because it shows genuine thought and it's given out at points in the game to show that they are thinking. Their tone is not faked, it is not a slot that is struggling to post. Ask yourself, if they truly were scum. Why would they leave out so much information that they clearly had in the back of their head when they made their posts? They aren't trying to over-explain to look townie, they are simply posting an condensed version of their thoughts. Which is an natural impulse that is harder for scum to do.

for what it's worth norwegian that thing you're trying to do this game seems like it's working because I think this is very well written and I'm understanding how you actually got to your position now

[Dannflor]

I want jjh to have thoughts on anyone or anything but Aristeia

[Dannflor]

I think it’s a pretty common scum strat for experienced players to find a tunnel that is believable and focus entirely on that, it’s actually remarkably easy to generate towny looking content with that strategy

I’m not saying that makes jjh scum but I don’t think the act of hard pushing ari is a town tell by itself

[Dannflor]

What changed with Aristeia?

[Dannflor]

osuka, it feels like you're treating me in the same way you approached Dusa. It's not just that you seem uncharitable. It feels like you are skimming the game, latched onto a viewpoint of my slot that was convenient for you, and then just read everything through that lens. Like, I don't think Dusa is a fluffy poster this game if you actually read her posts with a curious mind. I'm not really sure where you get the vibe that I'm "trying really hard not to piss anyone off." The posts you quote in 787 are me trying to put pressure on people to put content into the game, primarily people I'm scum reading.

this is a weird post for a player that at this point, hadn't mentioned me, hadn't interacted with me

I also find it hard to believe that you actually think this is weird, or that my scum read on you is weird? Why is it weird for me to scum read you without mentioning you or interacting with you?

Like, I think if there is an honest attempt to place yourself in my shoes you would at least see where I'm coming from.

What I have wanted for you is for you to engage in the game in a real way - to actually push something or bite your teeth into something other than just commentating on past game events. That is why I voted you - I didn't vote you for the prodge. I don't know why you're implying my vote wasn't justified, I think it's pretty clear why I wanted to put pressure on you.

was anyone actually ok with dann openly wagon shopping for 5 pages straight? let's find out in the next votecount! in the meantime, VOTE: dannflor

you want a wagon? let's get a wagon

I will openly admit to wagon shopping. I want some fucking wagons. Why does that make me scum

I don't even understand what you see in 794. what exactly is the inconsistency or the point that is scummy to you?

Aristeia said it - but I'll say it again: my problem is not that you were catching up or just that your catch ups are scummy. I get not everyone's time zones line up to interact with people live, that's not what I'm asking for. but I want you to engage with something that is happening presently in the game, or even just do something based off your catchup that will have ramifications NOW. pushing me actually fits that criteria!

if nobody talks to me at the time i am actually free of work then i cant be blamed for not making myself available to talk to people in real-time

so if any of you who had a problem with my fucking catch-ups or whatever don't get in here momentarily and come talk to me, i won't have the chance to explain why you're all catastrophically wrong about everything you think you know about my slot, so you forfeit any right to complain about my activity this game

it feels like your aggressiveness here is not real. your wagon is like 3 votes. I'm one of the only people to even express a hard scum read on you. "i won't have the chance to explain why you're all catastrophically wrong" - who is this even to?

and again, not talking in real time to people wasn't the problem I had with with your slot!

if you're town, I don't know how you expect people to understand where you're coming from when your reactions are this outsized compared to what is actually happening in the game and you don't seem genuinely interested in determining my alignment

[Dannflor]

I like jjh's sudden pivot a lot and I think that kind of trajectory tends to on the harder side of plays to make look natural as scum

[Dannflor]

I think [Dusa, Aristeia, jjh, GL, Fire Assassin] is like a very solid town block

There's like a small part of me wary about GL soft-defending / trying to talk me out of my osuka scum read earlier, but that's fully off of pre-flip associations and every other aspect of GuiltyLion's iso makes me want to town bin him. There have been several times he's prodded slots right when I was thinking along the same lines. I like that he's challenged Andres town reads because I *think* that would be an easy slot for him to townblock with given their entrances together and rapport right off the bat. Also, more recently, I like the effectiveness of 680 in trying to make a point super super clear and cut off any extraneous discussion. I know as scum I love to carry on explaining misunderstandings or unproductive conversations because it's just like free content, whereas that post felt like GL wanting to communicate as efficiently and as quickly as possible.

[Dannflor]

mmmm probably put ina marija in there too

I think after the opening ina has felt pretty agendaless, and recently I think the almost indignant "why aren't you talking about me" to several slots is pretty towny. I don't feel ina would be asking for the same type of attention as scum

[Dannflor]

Or at the very least not D1 material.

yeah it's not like impossible there's a deepwolf there, but I think the best way to catch a scum who is playing to that level is to examine their actions over the long term anyway

[Dannflor]

[kkfc, bluesnakelet, rce, whemestar, osuka] are the slots I'd be most enthusiastic about wagoning and probably fine with limming today

osuka i won't go into

kkfc, pretty much I think aristeia's points on the slot are salient

whemestar, I didn't love their pop in to defend themselves before just ghosting again

RCE, rereading the last several pages I hated 767. i feel like if scum were actually TMIing whemestar this is actually it. the timing of it comes after a few other people express a similar read and it feels like it's trying to blend in more than anything? RCE also feels like they are in a similar mode as osuka besides that post

Bluesnakelet, now that I think Ari vs. jjh is more strongly TvT, I hate its positioning around that 1v1. 501 doesn't read like BS thinks the fight is TvT, in fact it reads as specifically attacking/discrediting Ari, but he later says he's town reading Ari in 536 and says his goal was to "make ari stop doing that" in 545 which... I just do not think the wording of 501 is how someone talks to a town read to try to convince them to stop doing something. I also just in general think scum are more likely to position around the fight safely by calling it a TvT off the bat but still try to egg it on in some ways

[Dannflor]

I think jjh is probably a better person to ask that? I've never really thought Ari was scum and explained as such


I liked 594 a lot personally, but I was already predisposed to liking Ari

[Dannflor]

first of all you're way too reasonable. this is strange - i do generally expect that sort of noncommittal behavior over a long period of time to come from scum much more often than town. scum are afraid to commit where it might look bad for them in the future, whereas townies can't possibly ever be in that position because that requires 1. information and 2. playing against wincon

I'm not following how reasonableness connects to the rest of this. If you're saying I'm afraid to commit, point out where I've been noncommittal

reasonable is a personality trait

like, fucking hello???? you come out of _nowhere_ in QUICK succession (<2 minutes) to talk shit about a slot that hadn't posted in nearly 10 pages and had nothing to do with the conversation at hand, and then you quote a post from what effectively amounts to a decade ago. am i seriously expected to ignore that?

this is just literally how my brain works

I don't understand *why* you think I would have this prepared as scum, *why* would I suddenly go after Sail at this point as scum?

i posted that because Sail and their town read on me had been lingering in the back of my mind for a long time, I'm not sure what exactly reminded of it or if I was just browsing through ISOs in a 2nd tab but it felt like something I wanted to vocalize

again, not sure what you think the grand plan here is supposed to be or how it connects to wagon shopping, especially considering I went back on that point like a few posts later

I don't really believe you think this is scummy

[Dannflor]

ina do you have any scum reads

[Dannflor]

ina do you have any scum reads

idk probably struggling with jjh and sail the most at this exact moment but also lots of questions regarding other slots

why does it seem like most of your energy is going towards defending slots like osuka and sail rather than pushing and/or sorting slots like these?

[Dannflor]

oh I meant osuka and wheme

[Dannflor]

idk it just seems like you are big on benefit of the doubt for those slots and it's not super clear to me why

[Dannflor]

are you normally not voting at this point in the game?

[Dannflor]

I think [

Dusa

, Aristeia, jjh, GL,

Fire Assassin

] is like a very solid town block

Why?
I don't think I've found a child of the Professor yet.. and you doubt most of my theories!

I cannot remember Fire Assassin well even when he comes through often..

Ina Marija is a greater hero than all of these! Especially me ..

- fire assassin isn't playing for optics imo, stuff like shutting down lines of discussion and going against the current grain of the thread (voting me or defending Norwegian) feels anti-scum
-I also really liked their engagement with osuka. tbh I think it would've been really easy to pile on the attacky pressure hard, but 823 and 829 feel like genuine attempts to sort what might be an easy slot to pile onto

- my read on you is more vibey
- i haven't agreed with all your stances but you take *a lot* of stances and you mistrust GuiltyLion who is a pretty universally town read slot, both things I would not expect as much from your scum game
- idk im like marginally worried i just am predisposed to townreading the fun dusa aesthetic but you seem relaxed, inquisitive, have your *own* reads that aren't the thread's reads necessarily. I think I trust you more because I don't agree with you a ton.

[Dannflor]

okay but osuka actually kinda towny right

'i think maybe you prewrote these posts in a notepad or something and copy pasted them' pretty towny yeah

why?

it is easy for scum to notice and point out things that appear inconsistent because very often town players are inconsistent

but i think in this case if osuka took the thinking just a little bit forward they would not actually jump to "pre-prepared posts"

i think they got there because first they wanted to call me scum

[Dannflor]

@Dann did you address my question about why you think Sail is town?

no sorry I missed it

and now I'm struggling to explain it with conviction

in the moment I really liked 691 and 700

we were mindmelding on two different scum reads that I really believed in at the time, and they seemed to have a pretty casual/relaxed response to me expressing suspicion about them around that time too

but reading those back now to justify it, it kind of just looks like an attempt to pocket me which was like uhhhhh *exactly* what i was worried abotu in the first place

[Dannflor]

im very busy at work and i have to put out several fires today so you probably wont see me for a while, but danns reaction is sort of surprisingly reasonable and level-headed in the face of an osuka rant

GL what do you think about this post

it strikes me as like, cognitively inconsistent that osuka pops in to be like "oh you're so reasonable" in a tone that makes me think he is rethinking his read, and then doubles down with "actually you're too reasonable"

[Dannflor]

1069 is compelling

[Dannflor]

but this Andres/Dusa read is so out there I'm struggling to slot it neatly into a scum!RCE explanation

I kind of don't think this is something you can resolve by intellectually asking yourself "why would scum do this"

I think it's probably not indicative of either alignment because I'm pretty sure RCE would be reading through the thread and be looking for things to provide reads/analysis on as either alignment. I don't think being able to mix things up is strictly a town ability

that being said, i think if one of the dusa or andres were to flip red it might point towards RCE!town, as I'd expect RCE to be more aware of who/where his teammates are

[Dannflor]

idk i find myself in a similar boat as Dusa right now

osuka actually strikes me as actively scummy and while I see the case for Sail I'm not sure I see them flipping red as often

[Dannflor]

idk the timing of osuka wagon gaining steam after the Sail CW formed is giving me heebie jeebies

I'm also a little bit expecting scum to be bussing osuka here

I don't feel osuka is playing for long term survival here what with his content hard focusing on me of all slots

[Dannflor]

Anyway yeah i feel like Sail as town would have either explained why they still felt unsatisfied by my posts and would keep their vote on me, or explain it in a better and more organic way if they stopped suspecting me.
Instead it was like *Waits for a couple hours to see how the thread treats Norwee*. "Oh uh, i also townread this post made a time ago and so i'm unvoting and stuff. *Leaves the game to hide*

Maybe there is a perfectly town explanation for all of these events, but it's D1, i don't really care and unless they town it up i want them dead.

ok but wait


719 is the only post Sail made after your post that caused everyone to back off of you


and it's responding to a very old 577, so it feels like just as possible they just didn't see 716 until later?


because then Sail returns several hours later and responds to 716


I thought there was a post where Sail kept pushing you after 716 but uh I'm not seeing that

[Dannflor]

Andres are you like caught up? or just to post 267?

were you aware of the current wagon on osuka when you voted him?

[Dannflor]

who are all the obv town against it?

[Dannflor]

GL and Norwegian are pushing for the Sail wagon…

[Dannflor]

oh ina already said that

[Dannflor]

UNVOTE:

[Dannflor]

yikes the whole back half of the wagon aside from dusa is so skeevy

[Dannflor]

idk maybe I’m seeing things that aren’t there with osuka because I’m the object of his affection

i just can’t find his read on me believable

[Dannflor]

VOTE: andres

i kinda wanna do this

[Dannflor]

[andres, RCE, Ranger, osuka]

while we’re making 360 no scope scum team guesses

maybe swap osuka for like bluesnakelet for something, that probably makes more sense than bussing

I’ll throw whemestar in as 3p

[Dannflor]

maybe they talked about multi-vote posts in the scum PT

[Dannflor]

also happy birthday Dann!!

thank you!!

[Dannflor]

Furtive are you concerned at all about the RCE / Andres / Ranger vote hop ons to the osuka wagon?

or do the Sail votes you talked about just seem strictly worse for some reason

[Dannflor]

jjh, can you summarize your ranger read?

[Dannflor]

Would you be especially expecting Ranger to be manipulating the gamestate to one end as scum? because i don’t really see that as a feature shared by any of your leftovers pile

[Dannflor]

ok thanks

I think her and andres stand out to me particularly as slots that like, aren’t doing a lot that I would expect to be doing more

but I don’t have a ton of experience with ranger iirc so maybe that expectation is misplaced

[Dannflor]

I’m sorry to

v/la until sunday night

, I’ve been busy with family visiting and have not had much time to sneak away and play mafia

i’ll try to catch up and dig in some tonight (about 12 hours from now) and either make my case or just consolidate

[Dannflor]

I don’t really think osuka is scum anymore

[Dannflor]

I think I probably don’t want to kill Andres anymore either

I’ll organize my thoughts properly when my V/LA ends tonight

[Dannflor]

I think her and andres stand out to me particularly as slots that like, aren’t doing a lot that I would expect to be doing more

I've the fifth-highest post count in the game, despite my laziness. As a casual tryhard, I honestly shouldn't have as much as I do. Least of all, when this month has been hectic. Perhaps you can refresh your memory.

To my memory, I've done plenty, albeit not as much as

possible

.

I am not sure what your post count is supposed to prove when a majority of those posts are naked reads lists.

I know we played mystery box of silver together, that is the game I am using to base my expectation that you should be doing more this game.

Scrolling through your ISO in this game, there’s a void of actual content. When you post other than to update your reads list (which I think jjh put as being a very mechanical Ranger thing to do that is easy to replicate as either alignment) it’s to clarify basic things about your list or respond to people addressing you. I have not seen you be proactive about any of your reads this game. You aren’t really pushing for your scum reads, you aren’t trying hard to defend your town reads. In mystery box of silver you very quickly formed the Purge Plan based off the strength and confidence you had in your reads. You actively pushed for that. I have seen nowhere near the same enthusiasm or proactivity in this game.

It just seems like your pantomiming a Ranger town game but I have no idea what you believe in, despite you posting a reads list ten bajillion times.


I also question that you are authentically engaging with my slot rather than just putting me as a town read for political reasons. Given you call one of my reads “made up” in 839 and yet never follow up?

What are you doing this game?

[Dannflor]

i would wait on sail but i dont really know what they would do to disuade me

maybe make a non fallacious case on someone

How did Sail go from null scum to couldn’t do anything to dissuade you?

[Dannflor]

Ina, dann, Fa. If you had the power to take 1 player out of the game right now who would it be?

Game state wise, I think Sail needs to go

If i had a fun day vig? I’d shoot Ranger

[Dannflor]

Like Ranger, where is your Sail town case

Quoting one of their posts and calling it town does not make it seem like you actually care whether they live or die

[Dannflor]

Andres’ posting has improved. The initial catch ups felt very worrying in terms of level of engagement, but that has been alleviated and I’m no longer interested in going there today.

I finally got around to reviewing some osuka games. I’m hesitant to back off completely now and look stupid later, but I don’t really think osuka’s reaction to me or the gamestate has been out of character. It can certainly be faked, but looking back, I’m also not sure the rapid build of the back half of their wagon makes the *most* sense for a red flip

I’m pretty sure when scum bus, they like to get credit for it

Pretty much the whole wagon after Titus is naked votes, Ranger even just joins and puts the reasoning on someone else asking her to join

I guess I’m assuming there was scum piling onto osuka there, but it makes sense given my current reads. And the problem is none of those votes look like bus votes

[Dannflor]

VOTE: sail

Sail, can you expand more on your not!osuka scum reads and your less popular town reads? My main problem with your slot is that you seem to have a very narrow world view. I understand to some extent the focus on osuka, but I’d kind of expect you to also be trying to sort and/or case evidence for other reads at the same time? But I don’t see much going on in your head other than what relates to self defense and osuka

osuka is actually managing to do that despite being the most likely alternative to you atm

[Dannflor]

sorry to hear about your week RCE

[Dannflor]

Sail's V/LA ends today so I'd like to give them a chance to spew for a little while before hammer

[Dannflor]

She feels like a player who is showing you she is rowing very hard but you cannot tell what bank of the Styx she even wants.

I missed this post and am now embarrassed that Dusa nicely summarized all my feelings about Ranger in one pithy sentence.

[Dannflor]

Titus if you think osuka vs Sail is SvS then what exactly do you think the scum team is doing here

Yolobussing each other and hoping for the best?

It kinda doesn’t make a lot of sense to me when the only person meaningfully trying to change the status quo wagons is jjh, and I’m not prepared to revisit that slot without flips

[Dannflor]

do you have, like, opinions on sail

or osuka even

[Dannflor]

do you have, like, opinions on sail

or osuka even

Uhm I’ve been initially townreading osuka

Then I read their interactions with KKFC who I thought was just being a fly on the wall and treading water but then with their interactions osuka looked pretty bad and KKFC owned.

What about the slot at E-1

I agree that Ranger is scummy but I think currently people are more distracted by shinier objects, and I don’t think that’s a huge deal unless you think they are both town wagons

[Dannflor]

Dusa are you still distrusting Guilty Lion

[Dannflor]

if Dusa would allow me to interpret

I think it means Sail, osuka, Ari, and Ranger are stronger scum reads - while RCE and myswlf are weaker scum reads

I think the Gods attached to each player are supposed to be emblematic of our playstyles this game

[Dannflor]

did Titus' content do something for you, jjh?

[Dannflor]

which parts?

I like briefly thought I had a reason for Titus!town early in the game but I kind of forgot what it was

and idk it is a little hard for me to think that Osuka/Sail being SvS is a genuine take

[Dannflor]

I guess I like 1636, it feels specifically townie-brand self aware

[Dannflor]

It sorta caught me off-guard but it was basically a whole bunch of posts with clear Titus-type reasoning on various slots which I'm not sure there's any real reason to make as scum

...to look town? I don't know what you mean by there being no real reason to make those posts as scum

or like what about that feels out of her scum range?

[Dannflor]

omg i literally had that same thought this morning

[Dannflor]

no joke

[Dannflor]

I'd join a Ranger speedwagon tbh

there's a part of me that thinks Sail!scum just self hammers there?

[Dannflor]

VOTE: ranger

[Dannflor]

dusa what's the best call and why is it ares

[Dannflor]

iirc last game there were like 4-5 VTs total

[Dannflor]

iirc last game there were like 4-5 VTs total

which is to say I don't think a PR soft is a reason not to run someone up

[Dannflor]

dusa is a perfect little angel

[Dannflor]

Drew-

Why is a hard turn to Ranger a red flag?

[Dannflor]

also like neither here nor there but i literally was the one to put Sail at e-1 originally

[Dannflor]

i dont like rangers list at all wtf

can you tell me what makes you think ranger is town

It's probably unrealistic/unlikely but I've been sorta low-key hoping Ranger vs Wheme is SvS so all of us can each be right about those two slots in our own way

Get used to disappointment.

You'll be that way as long as you see camelCasedSnivy and Aristeia as town.

Wow youre really confident im scum

i will admit the ranger wagon was too fast for my liking

i know i used this reasoning in a scum game but i actually believe in it

ugh 1 day deadline ig ill vote sail

VOTE: Sail

[Dannflor]

WHAT DOES IT BEING TOO FAST MEEEEAAAAN

[Dannflor]

I don't know it's weird to go like "UGH I **guess** I'll vote sail" like you really don't want to when a perfectly good wagon exists on a slot that is A. hard pushing you and B. you don't seem to town read??

[Dannflor]

well either way this was an interesting experiment

I hope Titus gets some juicy VCA out of this EoD

[Dannflor]

I wonder how many mafia acronyms I could fit into a single post before people call for my deposition

[Dannflor]

deposition was the wrong word I'm not a monarch but execution felt kinda strong

[Dannflor]

do you want time to post GL or can I just hammer

[Dannflor]

VOTE: sail

assuming GL would not have put sail to e-1 if he wasn't fine with the day ending and also datisi is online and i want a flip

[Dannflor]

Ok rce thank you my guy
Did jjh also want to kill ranger?

Think jjh had Ranger as a weak townlean.

I don’t mind exploring Wheme as a possible option but my thing is that scum don’t target jjh specifically because they were going hard after wheme.

Not when there wasn’t really a lot of slots backing jjh on that read to begin with.

Wasn't JJh pretty universally town read by the end of the day?

Maybe Ari just killed him out of spite lol.

is this something you are genuinely considering Drew or are you just making a joke

[Dannflor]

a not so small part of me just wants to kill Drew today for hedging on literally all the floated elim candidates in 1884 and and picking on Ranger's clearly-meant-to-be sarcastic quip in 1889

i kinda think scum are less likely on average to read for jokes like that but i don't have actual numbers to back that up

i also don't think "Ari killed jjh" seems like a genuine take

[Dannflor]

Furtiveglance and Aristeia distancing in here?

where exactly did this observation come from? like why are you connecting furtive and ari here?

[Dannflor]

I think RCE is kind of towny today - he was like the first one to take some real stances on what Sail's flip meant

I guess Titus kinda did too but she didn't elaborate as much

Titus, did you do like, any VCA work on D1 in light of the flips

[Dannflor]

KKFC, I'd like to hear where your scum reads are at when you're around

You're kind of a lot more timid than I would expect this game

[Dannflor]

I’m not ready to share my thoughts on the ranger/osuka/camel/wheme crop

[Dannflor]

KKFC, I'd like to hear where your scum reads are at when you're around

You're kind of a lot more timid than I would expect this game

Yeah, I've been struggling to identify people who I think are scum this game.
I think osuka is a good shout, but beyond that, I'm not sure right now.

Do you have any conviction in a strong group of town reads? In our last game I just remember you being much more vocal about where your head is at

[Dannflor]

Ranger, why didn’t you case Camel before FA directly asked you to today?

Like, you could’ve made that same post at any time leading up to a miselim you apparently didn’t believe in

[Dannflor]

I don’t understand why you need to be prodded to case your convictions

[Dannflor]

GL can you please explain what feels really townie about Ranger

[Dannflor]

VOTE: ranger

it’s kind if unsettling that I have had like the almost exact opposite thoughts from you word for word, GL

I’ll respond to your post when I get to a computer in a little bit

[Dannflor]

GL can you please explain what feels really townie about Ranger

I can try but I am not sure it will be satisfying, bear with me, I can probably try to articulate this in more depth tomorrow

it's a combo of 1) the stubborn attitude insisting that she was ignored while pushing CCS and pulling up the receipts, as well as 2) her appeal to camel's town meta, it's not giving me the vibe of a player who knows she's pushing bullshit

based on my history with her as a player (across several of her accounts, I'm trying not to compare them directly as I know she doesn't like that, but I do feel it's relevant) - when I have seen her push narratives as scum she's been prone to distort things or make particularly aggressive claims in service to her narrative, whereas here this tunnel feels more grounded in actual events of the thread and thus without an underlying scum agenda. like my impression is that if she were scum then a post like 1993 would have read maybe like 10-15%

more

aggressive and reachy, like she may have attempted to shade me or other players that ignored her original camel vote, in an emulation of how she argues or posts as town. but instead this instance feels pure to me

let me know whether that makes sense or if you disagree, you were scum in the House of the Dragon game and my experience in that game is informing this read significantly

apologies for not getting to this yesterday

I admit this post is confusing to me because I see "the stubborn attitude insisting that she was ignored while pushing CCS and pulling up the receipts" to be distorting the truth! Ranger's version of how D1 went down is not what actually happened and your description of Ranger's scum play seems very applicable here?

Ranger didn't case camelCase D1. She *weakly* pushed camelCase in 1414 and 1785, both times as Sail was the top wagon and likely to be the default elimination. She also expressed multiple times that she thought Sail was flipping town. Today, Ranger is trying to get some towncred for this dynamic. *Now,* she is hard casing and pushing camelCase. But where was this energy yesterday? It feels like Ranger is trying to distort the truth by making it out as if she's always been this hard after camelCase when that's just flagrantly untrue.

Idk the #1 thing I look for in players like Ranger, who always have so much drive to go after what they want, is their conviction. Where was Ranger's conviction yesterday? I get not being sure of things D1, or not having as much time, but that's not the story Ranger is falling back on. I don't think those are genuine attempts by Ranger yesterday to push camelCase, I think she wanted Sail to go through.

[Dannflor]

the focus on claiming seems like mildly townie?

idk im not caught up on like the last 7 pages yet

[Dannflor]

I'll say this about 2065: this is nothing GuiltyLion can't do as scum. However, it would require notable effort on his part to create faked nuanced thoughts for a read of this nature. The question isn't whether he

could

make it as scum, rather

would

he.

I had my doubts about GuiltyLion, yet despite my umbrage with his disrespect, I don't think he bothers with the effort. Making that post takes a level of deliberate effort to develop a read he doesn't need to, for little in the way of gain. He could've just done it to do it, or truly thought long-term, yet it

feels

like a take he wouldn't just fake as scum nor a deliberate effort to make a longterm goal.

While I certainly was townreading scum D1, I don't think he's it.

I don't think this is a real read!!! this is such a pocket!!!!!

[Dannflor]

Great, a player I have perfect read accuracy on.

just as far as overall post quality goes this day phase I really want RCE to be town

[Dannflor]

Ranger, I'd like to know your current thoughts on Titus

[Dannflor]

also I swear to god my eyes are just glazing over trying to read through the osuka / kkfc / camelCase mess

[Dannflor]

Okay, caught up.

I like a town core of [Dusa, Alisae, Aristeia] but it's a little too small

I tentatively want to add Titus and RCEnigma in there too? Which might be hot takes?

Spoiler: alisae

ina marija I don't think I have to defend too much. It took me a while to get there but I think ina's play D1 is just very hard to replicate as scum. The whole like, questioning and interrogating every mildly popular push that was generated D1 is both unproductive for scum and unintuitive. I don't think ina was chainsawing like 5 slots at once.

rereading the start of the game I also think ina marija's like righteous indignation about being pushed (such as in 68 reads as genuine town frustration. I think this type of post is very familiar to me as townies who think they should be easily findable as obvious town. oh also Alisae hasn't done anything but e did just straight up shut down Norwegian trying to bring eir into the game, which... that's like a prime pocket opportunity if Alisae is scum?

Spoiler: dusa

Dusa is so heroic! I think her vision of the Professor's family tree throughout the game reveals that she does not know what the Professor's family tree looks like! Even today, Dusa has valiantly jumped into battle against whemestar, against Ranger, against Osuka, with a pitstop to jab at me, without care for what portrait she is painting of herself. Dusa is working on cleaning house without doing the glamorous jobs like sweeping or mopping, no, she's getting the grime off the back of the sink even though no one will notice and give her credit for it later!

A son of gods could scattershot reads this phase because more than one direction of the chaos of yesterday is interesting! A son of Professor could be shifting positions this phase to find the first sticky thing that is not himself!

I also think this quote from Dusa is kind of a hard post to make as scum who is likely to be hyper aware of their own image - and I think the user behind Dusa would be very aware of how they come off as scum

I also think Dusa being very slow to warm up to slots like GuiltyLion or myself is +town. I think it would seem very hard as scum to push either of these slots when they garnered many town reads early in the game, and that type of nuance is harder for scum to hold onto than just coming down on a read. I think her suspicion of me makes sense given our recent games together and I don't think I've necessarily broken my scum range yet - and I think Dusa would probably find it easier and more comfortable to pocket me given my position in the game if she was scum.

Spoiler: aristeia

I still think the way Aristeia dealt with jjh is pretty towny - I think her frustration was genuine and I tend to believe a player like Aristeia is going to play it cooler and "cleaner" as scum in that situation. Like, I think Ari scum reading jjh in 594 but then continuing to give jjh space, see 604, reads like someone genuinely unsure of herself and someone just trying to defuse the situation. I think there are worlds when scum!Ari just wants to defuse and get out of that 1v1 too, but I think in those worlds Ari spends more energy discrediting jjh to an audience.

I also think her defense of whemestar this day is towny - pretty much regardless of which way whemestar flips. There's a lot of empathy as a part of that read that reads genuine to me, specifically in 2237. like I don't think scum!Ari defends a town or scum Wheme by going "he's just like me fr." that's an empathetic townie and people who roll red role pms don't have empathy

Spoiler: titus

Titus is a slot where a lot of my good feelings today are coming from Titus saying many of the things I'm thinking before I have a chance to say them. 1882 and 1902 are two examples of this. I also just like Titus immediately steering the day's momentum onto Ranger without waiting to see where the vibes are at. My image of scum!Titus too is a lot more passive and waiting to see where the vibes are going.

I also like the process from 1770 through 1778? I think there's an organic shift here from "wtf last minute speed wagon" to "huh ok analyzing it the wagon looks organic and towny and maybe Ranger is scum". it feels like a genuine thought process that I can track through their posts. Normally, I find scum!Titus is just kind of... mimicking their analysis style and all their posts feel like busy work. this felt like Titus had an actual need to do her VCA and even got something tangible out of it

Spoiler: rce

RCE is just right on the money in 2003. RCE is another slot like Titus where I'm just mindmelding with a lot of their posts.

I think1981 and 1984 are actually very hard posts to make if you are scum who actually had this thought and used it to kill jjh over night. It's kinda like scum claiming in broad daylight and that is too bold for many players!

I think RCE playing mediator in 2339 is towny. I don't think there's a lot to gain from such a post as scum!RCE and there is actually a lot to lose by quelling that fight, especially if osuka vs kkfc is a TvT?

I also had the thought D1 that RCE placing importance on universal town reads consolidating when everyone was spread all over the place was pretty towny. 1523 and 1560 for reference. Again, a protown move that doesn't gain a lot for scum!RCE, but has the potential to lose a lot.

==============================

Spoiler: scattered other thoughts

GL/Fire Assassin/Norwegian are all in a tier kinda below that

GL and Fire Assassin I both thought were townier D1 and have dropped off for me a little today, but gun to head I'd still probably say they were town. with GL specifically I'm mostly just worried about how we came to exact opposite conclusions on the Ranger case and GL just seems... *so* charitable to Ranger in a way I'm not really used to seeing from GL?

Norwegian has just kinda maintained a steady kinda towny vibe that I can't really explain without making stuff up

reading through the fight between osuka/kkfc/camelCase of the last several pages, the tone and content of the argument alone makes me think there's at least one scum in there. it just does not seem productive and I think one of the best tactics scum can take is to clog up the thread with unreadable shit. That's combined with the fact that the easiest form of content for scum to make is to just pick at inconsistencies and not let an argument die. It looks like you're sorting shit without actually doing anything. camelCased is probably my top pick for scum in that group just off vibes? osuka kinda seems like he's just Like That and kkfc seems like he got kinda dragged into it. camelCased seems the most performative too in posts like 2303

furtiveglance/doctordrew/whemestar are all kind of blob in my mind of slots that have offered basically no content today, I think both Drew's and Furtive's first posts this day phase were walls of hedging mush on all the popular options today. I think any of them could easily be scum, but like Dusa said earlier, I don't think any of them are particularly exciting nor do they really tell us anything regardless of how they flip. this is a group I'd compromise in but like, I think Ranger is just scum.

[Dannflor]

also in light of the Sail flip I kinda want to give Dusa and RCE town points for being among the first ones to start the last minute Ranger wagon end of the day yesterday

I guess it's not a huge thing if Ranger flips town but I think it points in the general direction of being uninformed

[Dannflor]

furtive why is ranger town to you

what exactly has been consistent with her town game

what would you be looking for to see if she was a daughter of the Professor?

[Dannflor]

also like not to be narcissistic but I don't like that Ranger suddenly dropped me a dozen spots in her reads list right as I started pushing her

[Dannflor]

ugh 1 day deadline ig ill vote sail
VOTE: Sail

Shame on you all for not realizing this was transparently scum.

VOTE: camelCasedSnivy

VOTE: Ranger Easily flips red and I think Snivy flips red if that’s the case.

Here's an idea; help me bus camelCasedSnivy, the elimination I kept advocating for yesterday which nobody was interested in despite how obviously scum he is.

Ranger comes into today stating that camelCasedSnivy was "transparently scum" and that she was advocating for camelCased's elimination yesterday because he was obvious scum. Where was this conviction yesterday?

Here are all the times Ranger advocates for camelCased's elimination yesterday:

while we’re making 360 no scope scum team guesses

{Aristeia, NorwegianboyEE, camelCasedSnivy, Fire Assassin/Titus} is my current noscope.

VOTE: camelCasedSnivy
Any interest in this?

As you've made the choice to collapse the Sail wagon, let me again inquire if there's interest here;
VOTE: camelCasedSnivy

Ranger only started casing camelCasedSnivy today. Where was the case yesterday? I don't think any town player who genuinely is "actively trying to prevent" a Sail wagon that they think is a miselimination, as Ranger states in 1940 and 1941 only does what Ranger did D1. I don't understand why town!Ranger doesn't post the scum case on camelCased before the sail wagon is going to go through if she actually believed in what she said she believed in

the 1940 and 1941 posts are just distorting the truth, Ranger's posting yesterday was all positioning and no bite. She was not actively pushing for camelCased and I don't think town!Ranger would be trying to make it out like she was. I think there would be at least some awareness of, hey, I should've pushed for what I believed in harder, if she was town.

Instead, her posting today feels purely survivalistic in how she's representing yesterday - and I think that pockety read on GL and then suddenly degrading me is part of that too

I'm sorry I don't want to clog up the thread with walls but like simply fact checking Ranger's does not show she actually believed in what she is saying now

[Dannflor]

reverse cult

[Dannflor]

Unpopular opinion both ranger and camel are town

thats what im inclined to believe

whyyy

[Dannflor]

I guess I kinda think Ranger and CCS make sense as scum together but that relies way more on pre-flipping Ranger as red than it does pre-flipping CCS as red

[Dannflor]

I don't really understand why that makes ranger town though

[Dannflor]

what is your read on Ranger, Camel

[Dannflor]

oh my god 2410 through 2417 read like a Who's On First? routine

[Dannflor]

CCS, did you answer how you're reading Ranger now?

[Dannflor]

UNVOTE: camelCasedSnivy

Maybe I'm being played but 2382 and 2295 read as too genuine to be scum.
Still upset over being voted but I understand more what was going on now that some time has passed.

why is misreading the VC in 2382 something scum couldn't do?

[Dannflor]

VOTE: kffc
i cant believe people finally decided kffc was scummy

I can't believe people haven't realized Aristeia's blatantly scum.

If I ask you to explain/case this, will you?

[Dannflor]

@Ranger

Can you also explain what exactly triggered you to reverse your read on me back to town?

there's a space of like a few minutes between you calling my push on you phony and disingenuous and then you saying you talked yourself back into a town read

what things made you make that reversal?

[Dannflor]

you'll probably disagree with this and dislike it, but the reason I'm not there with you is that I think Ranger actually does believe that she "actively tried to prevent" Sail's elimination by naked voting CCS at the time that she did. like your expectation here is that town!Ranger would post a case, but I think it's entirely within her style as town to just post her reads and expect people to sheep or come to them of her own accord.

I get your worldview and you might be right and I might be wrong, but idk I also feel CCS is just wolfy and that's also probably biasing my perspective a bit. it might even be a case where CCS/Ranger is S-S

I'm considering that world

I guess my main sticking point is that I think if you look solely at D1, Ranger just looks really bad. I think the way she played around the Sail wagon fits the MO of someone who both knows it will flip town but also wants it to flip. She was purportedly pushing CCS, but her attempts to convince people amounted to saying "anyone interested in this?" a couple times

it feels like the sudden shift in tone and RAH RAH KILL CCS is damage control after yesterday. it's also part of why I'm suspecting Ranger/CCS - I know I've done similar things as scum where after a townie gets miseliminated I go full into bussing a buddy because I need to build town cred back up so that I can coast through more miselims

It's not even that Ranger just didn't case CCS, it's that even the attempts to persuade people that *are* there feel milquetoast, like she was hoping people would actually ignore her

and that just *does not mesh* with Ranger's attitude coming into today

1886, 1887, 1894, and 1898 are all suddenly much more forceful and persuasive than the D1 attempts, and that is without anyone directly engaging with Ranger on her read - the thing she claims she needs in order to convince people

I think I'd have a much easier time believing that Ranger actually believed she was pushing CCS to that degree D1 if her tone matched at all

[Dannflor]

furtive why is ranger town to you

what exactly has been consistent with her town game

what would you be looking for to see if she was a daughter of the Professor?

She was quite an efficient scum partner in this game, so I've seen the somewhat more eccentric posting this time as town-indicative. Ranger definitely showed a less traditional style as town in this game, but she did spend some of it self-voting so it's not a great reflection of her towngame.

I was sort of thinking she'd be more streamlined and maybe less talkative, but I suppose being pushed would necessitate a response so I'm not as strong on the read as I was.

im sorry can you be more specific?

I'm skimming the scum game and not really seeing obvious differences here, it looks like a similar amount of response walls if that's what you're referring to by talkative?