Left 4 Dead Mafia - Day 6?
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almightybob Goon
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/confirm
Voting before the game even starts bv310? Little keen to start lynching are weI'm a townie! Honest!
Are you a video gamer? Had enough of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM]this kind of ignorance[/url]? Then [url=http://playstuff.tumblr.com/post/471266385/ignorance]sign the petition[/url].-
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almightybob Goon
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Look at the title of the thread.
We haven't started yet.Title wrote:Left 4 Dead Mafia -Pre-GameI'm a townie! Honest!
Are you a video gamer? Had enough of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM]this kind of ignorance[/url]? Then [url=http://playstuff.tumblr.com/post/471266385/ignorance]sign the petition[/url].-
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almightybob Goon
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almightybob Goon
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Ooh yay, random wagon on me. Fun fun.
Socrates' idea isn't a bad one, although there's some parts I disagree with. For example, I'd rather give something powerful a gun to someone I consider to be likely Town, than risk wasting it. I suppose it depends if we know the use of each item before it's picked up.
I presume it works like so:
- Director says "Item XXX is up for grabs".
- Everyone who wants in (up to a maximum of 25% of the players) postsGrab: Item XXXin the thread.
- They randomly choose etc etc.
Socrates' plan removes the random element to a degree, in that we can choose who goes in for each item drop.
Of course, it only works if you have to make your grab post publicly. If not, people could just say "Yeah OK that plan sounds fair" and then grab it anyway.@Mod: Can we attempt to grab an item via PM?
Not neccessarily. PRs can still go for and use items as far as I'm aware.DeathNote wrote:So people who go for items are not PRs? Is that good to know, or bad to know?
Dr.Cyanide wrote:Grab: SubMachineGun
Alright, don't anybody move! This, is a stickup!
Zombie Lords, show yer'selves.Grab: the ammo clip.
You forgot this. Now put that down.I'm a townie! Honest!
Are you a video gamer? Had enough of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM]this kind of ignorance[/url]? Then [url=http://playstuff.tumblr.com/post/471266385/ignorance]sign the petition[/url].-
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almightybob Goon
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Yeah if any of them had a halfway solid reason, I'd address it, but meh. At L-6, I'm not too concerned.Ifrinn wrote:4 Votes in what could be considered a single page? Not good. But nothing to get your knickers in a twist about AlmightyBob.
Dizzy - good catch. DeathNote, why do you need a sample Town PM? Surely the only people who need to see one are scum, everyone else has a Town PM already.
Vote: DeathNote
This looks a lot like a scumslip.I'm a townie! Honest!
Are you a video gamer? Had enough of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM]this kind of ignorance[/url]? Then [url=http://playstuff.tumblr.com/post/471266385/ignorance]sign the petition[/url].-
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almightybob Goon
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I looked again, not sure what I'm meant to be seeing though.Socrates wrote:unvote, vote:Infrin
Im preeeety confident about this vote. I want to sit on why for now. Everyone should look at the way he responded to Charlie very closely.
Well there's a sample Townie role PM in the first post now, but I assume that, at that time, it hadn't been included. Which is my issue - why would a Town player need to request a sample Town role PM?Socrates wrote:Don't scum have a sample PM anyway? Or does this mean the mod was going to post a sample PM but forgot?
He's either stupid Town helping the scum by ensuring that they have a template for fakeclaiming, or (far more likely in my opinion) he's scum who didn't realise we'd pick up on the significance of him not already having a Town role PM.
Either way, there's absolutely no pro-Town justification for it.
Blend moar, scum.Nelly632 wrote:I mean I am for whatever you all think is bestI'm a townie! Honest!
Are you a video gamer? Had enough of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM]this kind of ignorance[/url]? Then [url=http://playstuff.tumblr.com/post/471266385/ignorance]sign the petition[/url].-
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almightybob Goon
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Always helps to have a reason for a position rather than just stating your opinion. Gives me something I can respond to. All I can really say to what you wrote is "NO U".Anon wrote:Almightybob is also scum.I'm a townie! Honest!
Are you a video gamer? Had enough of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM]this kind of ignorance[/url]? Then [url=http://playstuff.tumblr.com/post/471266385/ignorance]sign the petition[/url].-
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almightybob Goon
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I still don't get what you're driving at, sorry. I'll do a PBPA of the posts in question, and tell you what I see. Then hopefully you can show me where your interpretation differs from mine.Socrates wrote:Here, let me put everything he said about charlie all together for you.
My comments are bolded and italicised.
Ifrinn wrote:And if one person openly claims to have received a power role you can safely assume they would be chow food if Charlie is right in saying town have no set power roles.Seems to discourage a roleclaim by stating that anyone who claimed would become a target for scum. Fair enough.
Charlie im not sure on what you are saying here.Strange because he then goes on to show he does in fact understand the quote.
How can you ponder this when we have seen nothing in the way of a flip?Coz I get the feeling that items are there to give a powerless town some leverage.Asking why Charlie is already so confident Town has no PRs. Could potentially be an attempt to stifle discussion, but I don't see the scum benefit.
Refreshing from memory each boss has some kind of ability.Is it the use of the word "boss" when referring to the scum that's the problem? Because I too had assumed, even before starting the game, that the scum roles would be that of the boss/special infected, eg Hunter, Boomer, Spitter blah blah, whereas the Town roles would be the Survivors and accompanying human cast. Potentially it could be a scumslip in admitting that the scum roles are in fact special infected, but as I said, I'd already assumed as much.
Agreed it is up for debate but i'd be at loathe to say i think town is powerless considering that we would need some defence from them even minimally.Confusing sentence with the vague pronouns, but I read it as "I'd be loathe to say I think Town is powerless considering that [Town] would need some defence from [scum] even minimally".are we certain that they ARE any town PRs in this zombie infested wasteland?
Both statements just rubbed me up the wrong way.Not really sure why, but OK.
If town receives an item tonight and then is killed off by scum the same night. In the scenario in your mind does this mean we'll have to wait another whole day for the item?Unless we get more than one item a day, that is how I'd imagined the item process going - someone, hopefully a Townie, gets an item. The scum then try to kill off that person to prevent the item being used against them.
Charlie what is your experience with either part of the AI director? Ive checked your wiki but there is no love there.Asking Charlie if he's ever played with Reck or Kise (the two parts of the AI Director). I don't see the point in asking, but no problem here.Ifrinn wrote:
Sorry. I forgot to mention this sounded like rolefishing. Minus town points.Are we certain that they ARE any town PRs in this zombie infested wasteland?I disagree that it looks like rolefishing. It seems more like setup speculation. It's not specific enough for rolefishing.
So that's what I understood from and saw in those posts. Frankly, I'm not sure what the fuss is about. Perhaps I'm just not thinking with portals, but I don't see anything majorly scummy, apart from the potential "boss" scumslip which I can't honestly call a scumslip since I'd thought the same.
And I'm also a bit suspicious of the wagon, because it allows anyone to jump on saying "oh yeah I totally saw it too, Ifrinn is obvscum" without actually sayingwhatthey saw, orwhyit was scummy. See Amished's 82 and Anon's 84 for perfect examples of what I mean.
I think he commented on it because it was the biggest wagon at the time, and 4 RVS falling on the same player is a little unusual. Not sure why he told me to chill, because I'd have thought from my reaction that it was pretty obvious I was already chilled/uncaring about RVS votes. Could be buddying I suppose, but if it is, it's a failed attempt. It doesn't really sway my opinion of him either way.Socrates wrote:Incidentally, Bob, why do you think Ifrinn bothered to tell you to chill about the wagon on you? How does it make you feel about him?
I've never played with a hydra - didn't even know what it was until I checked the wiki - but I suppose it explains the asterisks. Not sure how it will affect gameplay, but guess we'll just have to find out. I suppose it could be harder to detect a hydra scum because they'd have multiple players checking and being careful of scumslips. But it could equally be a Town advantage, like having one extra player to scumhunt.I'm a townie! Honest!
Are you a video gamer? Had enough of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM]this kind of ignorance[/url]? Then [url=http://playstuff.tumblr.com/post/471266385/ignorance]sign the petition[/url].-
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almightybob Goon
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Forgot to include this:
Do share.DocPotter wrote:I can think of a few reasons why DN would ask about the VT pm, only one marks him as scum.I'm a townie! Honest!
Are you a video gamer? Had enough of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM]this kind of ignorance[/url]? Then [url=http://playstuff.tumblr.com/post/471266385/ignorance]sign the petition[/url].-
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almightybob Goon
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Helpful.Socrates wrote:Bob: *sigh*
So what has to happen before you actually say what you think is scummy? And what are you hoping to gain from keeping it a secret while still encouraging people to join the wagon?
More importantly, how are we going to get Amished and Anon to prove that they actually thought something was scummy about Ifrinn? As opposed to just going "Oh yeah that's what I meant" when you eventually do post?
If you present an actual case, I'm more than happy to look at it. But just saying "He's scummy just because, and if you can't see why tough" and then still encouraging people to vote... that's not good Town play.I'm a townie! Honest!
Are you a video gamer? Had enough of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM]this kind of ignorance[/url]? Then [url=http://playstuff.tumblr.com/post/471266385/ignorance]sign the petition[/url].-
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almightybob Goon
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Well if the planning thing is out the window,Grab: Boomer Bile.
So it's me, DeathNote, bv310 and Doc Potter.I'm a townie! Honest!
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almightybob Goon
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Anyway, other stuff:
@Nelly's 109: That's why I consider it a scumslip - a mistake made by scum which exposes them as scum.
I certainly can't see any reason for a Townie to request a sample Town PM, not phrased the way he did. It wasn't "Mod, you forgot to post the sample PM", it was "Mod can I see a Town PM".
I will answer your questions after you answer mine.Socrates wrote:Bob, what do YOU think my intentions are by being obtuse about this?
What do you think about my alignment?
I did you the courtesy of taking the time to outline my thoughts before. The least you can do is show me the same courtesy, by answering my questions when I ask you instead of just replying with the same questions back at me.
It's not phrased like a mod correction, it's phrased like a request. Second is possible. Third is not an excuse I'm prepared to accept. I play Mafia by the Inverse Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by malice.DocPotter wrote:Bob: Well, he could just be pointing out a mod error, being a mod himself. Or tweeky Reck/Kise's nose a little. Or just being DN. He has something of a rep
Clearly Dr Cyanide has assumed, as I and apparently Ifrinn also did, that the scum in this game will be given roles of the Special Infected from Left 4 Dead and/or Left 4 Dead 2.DeathNote wrote:By the way, I am still intrigued by this post. What is everyone else's thoughts on this?
Really, to anyone who's ever played the game, this is not a dramatic logical step. In the game, the Special Infected/Boss Infected/Zombie Lords/Whatever-the-fuck-you-want to-call-them are the only playable bad guys, so it makes sense that they will be the bad guys in a L4D-themed Mafia game.
Seriously, am I the only one who signed up to this game because they actuallyplayL4D? I would have thought anyone who's played either game would instantly make the connection that the scum's roles will almost definitely be those of the Special Infected.
*preview edit* Jesus Christ Nelly. Don't quote the entire post just for a one-line response, quote the relevant part and say what post it's from. Bloody hell.I'm a townie! Honest!
Are you a video gamer? Had enough of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM]this kind of ignorance[/url]? Then [url=http://playstuff.tumblr.com/post/471266385/ignorance]sign the petition[/url].-
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almightybob Goon
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If someone accuses you of quote-snipping, you can link to the post in question and show you weren't. Now I've got a wall to wade through to find probably 9 or 10 lines that are actually written by you.Nelly632 wrote:The purpose of quoting the entire post was so that no one could indicate I was minipulating the post or quoting what I want to be shown from it...
Sorry you are upset about it but clearly Socrates is trying his best to make everyone who is not on board with him as scum so I need everything to be on the up and up...I'm a townie! Honest!
Are you a video gamer? Had enough of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM]this kind of ignorance[/url]? Then [url=http://playstuff.tumblr.com/post/471266385/ignorance]sign the petition[/url].-
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almightybob Goon
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It wasn't a potential lynch. I was at L-6, not even close. If I had got to L-2 or something off random votes, you're damn right I'd be concerned about that.Anon wrote:I find it hard that a townie posts stuff like this about his potential lynch.
But 4 votes in an 18-player game, none with any good reason? Nothing to be concerned about, as Town or scum.
Now why couldn't you just have given that reason with your initial statement? Why do I have to drag an explanation out of everyone these days?
I responded to it in 137, where I say "@Nelly's 109".Anon wrote:Deathnote voters, what do you think of this?
For completeness:
Scenario 1: DN is smart scum.He wants a Town PM for future fakeclaims. He would not ask for it publicly, as this would obviously look suspect as it is tantamount to admitting he doesn't have a Town PM of his own.
Scenario 2: DN is stupid scum.He wants a Town PM for future fakeclaims, so asks for one. He does so publicly because he does not think through the implications of this request.
Scenario 3: DN is stupid Town.He has no motivation to ask for a sample Town PM, because he realises he already has a Town PM so he doesn't need to see another.
Scenario 4: DN is smart Town.He has no motivation to ask for a sample Town PM, because he realises that it will not help any Town player. The only people who can possibly benefit from it are the scum. So he does not ask.
Scenario 2 is the only one that follows through.
I've already shared my interpretation of post 69, and all I got for it was a sigh. If one of you three insightful geniuses (Anon, Amished, Socrates) feel like descending from Mount Olympus to explain to us mere mortals what was so scummy that we missed, I'm all ears. Until then, I'm done rereading that post.Anon wrote:Regarding the ifrin, thing, please look Ifrins 69 again but try this time. Basically this request to all of you.I'm a townie! Honest!
Are you a video gamer? Had enough of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM]this kind of ignorance[/url]? Then [url=http://playstuff.tumblr.com/post/471266385/ignorance]sign the petition[/url].-
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almightybob Goon
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I have no idea. If it is, he shouldn't be referencing another ongoing game.DeathNote wrote:Why zombie lords in particular? Isn't that what the evil role of another on going game is?
But being able to read the name of the scumteam in another game says nothing about a person's role in this game.
Anyways, people I'd like to see some goddamn contribution from:
CSL- 3 posts, no content
DizzyIzzyB13- 5 posts, hardly any content
xofelf- 2 posts, no content
Pomegranate- 7 posts, hardly any content
Fongoid- 4 posts, hardly any contentI'm a townie! Honest!
Are you a video gamer? Had enough of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM]this kind of ignorance[/url]? Then [url=http://playstuff.tumblr.com/post/471266385/ignorance]sign the petition[/url].-
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almightybob Goon
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OK, seriously. Has anyone here actually played Left 4 Dead?
You didn't know that the main characters (Bill, Francis, Zoey and Louis in Left 4 Dead, Rochelle, Coach, Ellis and Nick in Left 4 Dead 2) are called the Survivors? You didn't know that the main threat are the Special Infected, often referred to as "boss" Infected because they're much rarer than common Infected, have special abilities, and are harder to kill?I'm a townie! Honest!
Are you a video gamer? Had enough of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM]this kind of ignorance[/url]? Then [url=http://playstuff.tumblr.com/post/471266385/ignorance]sign the petition[/url].-
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almightybob Goon
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I'm just confused why people would join a Mafia game themed around a game they don't play. I assumed everyone in this game would be familiar with L4D.
For future reference, the Survivors are listed above, and the Special Infected are the Boomer, Smoker, Hunter, Witch, and Tank in Left 4 Dead, with the addition of the Charger, Spitter and Jockey in Left 4 Dead 2.
I assume that these are the roles that will be given to the scum, and that Town will have the roles of the Survivors, plus (because I doubt there's only 8 Townies in this game) various other humans that are referenced in the games.
[offtopic]
That achievement recently prompted me to make my first ever YouTube video, a guide to Guardin' Gnome as well as shortcuts and hints to make it easier. It might interest you. Here it is.bv310 wrote:Got Gnome Chomsky in L4D2 along with all the fun stuff. That gnome was a pain in the ass to find.
[/offtopic]I'm a townie! Honest!
Are you a video gamer? Had enough of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM]this kind of ignorance[/url]? Then [url=http://playstuff.tumblr.com/post/471266385/ignorance]sign the petition[/url].-
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almightybob Goon
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Is it usual for people to join theme games when they have no knowledge of the theme? I thought the idea was that you join games where you're interested in or already know the theme, or you read up about it prior to the game starting.
Those of you who've never played L4D or L4D2 might find The Left 4 Dead Wiki useful for a bit of background information.
So you know - the Boomer Bile that is currently up for grabs is a one-use item in the game. It attracts all the common Infected (read: minion zombies) to one spot, and can be used to blind Special Infected (read: boss zombies) and cause them to be attacked by their own minions.
So I get the feeling it might translate to something like a one-use roleblock here.I'm a townie! Honest!
Are you a video gamer? Had enough of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM]this kind of ignorance[/url]? Then [url=http://playstuff.tumblr.com/post/471266385/ignorance]sign the petition[/url].-
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almightybob Goon
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No they're clearly not, because you never justify a single goddamn thing you say within those 2-3 lines. I will be ignoring this demand, because I like to actually prove a point, instead of just stating my opinion and expecting everyone to accept it.Anon wrote:DONT MEGAPOST PEOPLE. Two-three lines is enough!
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Right, my thoughts on Socrates' Top Secret Ultra-Classified Magical Mystery Ifrinn Case, finally released to the public under the Freedom of Information Act.
If you read the whole paragraph, which you delicately snipped to further your case, you'll see that Charlie's logic is not the only thing Ifrinn mentions to discredit your suggestion.Socrates wrote:He simultaneously tries to discredit my suggestion by using Charlies posit about power roles while calling Charlie scum for making said suggestion,all while fishing for more information from Charlie.
And considering you're coming down so hard on Ifrinn for setup speculation:Ifrinn actually wrote:Socrates. While you are giving me the pro town buzz with your suggestions, as Pomegranite pointed out your plan could be flawed.
What with only 25% of the playerfield being able to grab the items it presents itself with an issue.
And if one person openly claims to have received a power role you can safely assume they would be chow food if Charlie is right in saying town have no set power roles.Socrates wrote:Ifrinn has a greater focus on trying to figure out the power of the town than hunting for scumbagsSocrates wrote:The questions Ifrinn asks have absolutely no weight on Charlie's alignment and serve to only fish for more information about what Charlie knows about the setup.
Why did you have nothing to say and no stamping out to do when Charlie raised the issue of setup speculation initially in post 61? Or when DeathNote and Amished speculated about Town PRs getting items in 59 and 60 respectively? Particularly the latter would be a huge indicator to scum about the Town PRs, yet you keep quiet about it. How strange.Socrates wrote:Speculation about the presence of power roles only helps the scum team find said power roles (For instance, Charlie is very obviously a vanilla townie, so the scum know to look elsewhere.) at this time and it is in the town's interest to stamp out such lines of questioning. Deliberately perpetuating this is absurdly pro-scum.
Do you know what'shilarious? When I was looking back just there to see who first started speculating about the setup, do you know what I found?
So, irony of ironies, the first to speculate on the setup in any way was in fact Socrates.Socrates, post 51 (18 posts before Ifrinn first mentioned the setup), wrote:Incidentally, I expect a powerful scum team. Just putting that out there.
God I love hypocrisy. It's such good entertainment when it blows up in your face.
He's curious because an all-vanilla Town in a game this size would be very unusual, and most people including myself would assume that there would beSocrates wrote:tl;dr: Ifrinn is AWFULLY curious about why Charlie might doubt the existance of power roles. Also, He calls the suggestion scummy while using it to push his agenda elsewhere.someTown PRs, especially considering the unreliability of the item drop method of acquiring abilities.
He calls the suggestion scummy because he sees it as rolefishing -"are we sure there's any Town PRs?"says Charlie,"Oh yes I'm sure... but I don't want to say why"replies the Town PR. I can see why he thought that, although I disagree that it was Charlie's intention.
He used it conditionally (IF Charlie is right, your idea fails) and only aspartof his objection to your ideas, which you conveniently snipped out.
So yeah. Frankly, the case does not impress me. My initial reactions to Ifrinn's post, which I outlined in my 101, are still how I feel about the posts in question. You built that up far too much.
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Amished's case - first paragraph WIFOM with a strange definition of "coddling", second more WIFOM with odd conclusion which doesn't logically follow.
Still, at least you didn't say Oh yeah that's what I meant". I wonder if that's because I suspected you would in 105...
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Only if they never use it.Socrates wrote:Items drop back in to play if the person who has it is night killedMod, Game-Specific Rule 3, wrote:If the player uses that item even once before dying, the item will expire upon their death.I'm a townie! Honest!
Are you a video gamer? Had enough of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM]this kind of ignorance[/url]? Then [url=http://playstuff.tumblr.com/post/471266385/ignorance]sign the petition[/url].-
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almightybob Goon
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There's too many potential flavour interpretations of Boomer Bile for it to be useful in that sense. It could be a vig, a roleblock, a redirect, a bus drive, a post restriction (although I don't see how that would be a pro-Town use), an investigation (enemies hit by Boomer Bile show up with purple outlines, whereas teammates cannot be hit by the Bile)...
I don't think your plan will work for the Boomer Bile Pome. It might work for different items with a more obvious use (e.g. shotgun) but there's too many flavour interpretations for this one.I'm a townie! Honest!
Are you a video gamer? Had enough of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM]this kind of ignorance[/url]? Then [url=http://playstuff.tumblr.com/post/471266385/ignorance]sign the petition[/url].-
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almightybob Goon
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You check your own posts to see if they're scummy? Afraid you'll let something slip?Charlie wrote:I asked myself after posting that, :"Is this scummy?" and I found myself answering "No."
Funny, you seemed perfectly aware of it at the time.Ifrinn wrote:Missed the bandwagoning though.
Explain please.Ifrinn wrote:4 Votes in what could be considered a single page? Not good. But nothing to get your knickers in a twist about AlmightyBob.
I lol'd.thatguy wrote:I hate to be 'that guy'I'm a townie! Honest!
Are you a video gamer? Had enough of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM]this kind of ignorance[/url]? Then [url=http://playstuff.tumblr.com/post/471266385/ignorance]sign the petition[/url].-
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almightybob Goon
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Not really. That seems like a pretty convoluted explanation, and it doesn't really fit in with the original post. It seems pretty clear to me from the initial post that you were saying "I didn't see the bandwagoning, good point Tar, buddy buddy buddy". I'm not sure I buy your excuse.Ifrinn wrote:Sated?
Is that your only defence against this point?Charlie wrote:Note to self: don't post that I check my own post for scuminess.
If people just post things like that, it will be. You said in your last post that you'd definitely be back up to speed by the weekend. Share your thoughts.DizzyIzzyB13 wrote:Sigh. This game is irritating so far.
Do you think that what Charlie said is a scumslip?
What is your response to DocPotter's suggestion in post 205 that your noting of DN's request for a sample PM was a well-timed deflection?I'm a townie! Honest!
Are you a video gamer? Had enough of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM]this kind of ignorance[/url]? Then [url=http://playstuff.tumblr.com/post/471266385/ignorance]sign the petition[/url].-
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almightybob Goon
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Good. Now go find other things that have happened and comment on them. I really don't want to have to drag responses out of everyone all the way through this game like I've had to in my most recent few games.
almightybob wrote:Anyways, people I'd like to see some goddamn contribution from:
Replaced byCSL- 3 posts, no contentGlorkwho still hasn't shown his/her face
Has resurfacedDizzyIzzyB13- 5 posts, hardly any content
xofelf-2 posts, no content, still hasn't done a goddamn thing all game
Resurfaced for a whilePomegranate- 7 posts, hardly any content
Fongoid-4 posts, hardly any content, still not impressed
Mod, prods on xofelf (7 days without posting) and Fongoid (5 days)? Plus there's bound to be others. Plus you forgot to note Glork replacing CSL in the first post.I'm a townie! Honest!
Are you a video gamer? Had enough of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM]this kind of ignorance[/url]? Then [url=http://playstuff.tumblr.com/post/471266385/ignorance]sign the petition[/url].-
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almightybob Goon
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That was Socrates' suggestion in Post 51.thatguy00 wrote:I voted for Ifrinn because he wants to line people up to take an itemI'm a townie! Honest!
Are you a video gamer? Had enough of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM]this kind of ignorance[/url]? Then [url=http://playstuff.tumblr.com/post/471266385/ignorance]sign the petition[/url].-
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almightybob Goon
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Wrong. The unused item would be returned to the Town, as per Rule 3.Glork wrote:Also, it should go without saying that nobody should try to grab more than one item in a given day. If they can't use both items in the same night, and they get nightkilled, we probably lose the unused item.
And I see I've been ninja'd by Charlie. Oh well.I'm a townie! Honest!
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almightybob Goon
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What is it with you and expecting Town to trust you about things you won't tell us?Socrates wrote:The pressure on TG is interesting, but he dropped one of the secret town tells I was looking for earlier, though it was admittedly a weak one.
What do you think of the point I brought up in post 257? Thatguy claims he is voting Ifrinn for lining up people to grab items, when in fact it was you that did that, back in post 51. So he's voting Ifrinn for a reason that's incorrect. Is that on your secret Town tell list?I'm a townie! Honest!
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almightybob Goon
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Is trying to pass incorrect information off as the truth a scumtell?Socrates wrote:Is being wrong a scumtell?
(.oN :rewsnA)
(.seY :rewsnA)I'm a townie! Honest!
Are you a video gamer? Had enough of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM]this kind of ignorance[/url]? Then [url=http://playstuff.tumblr.com/post/471266385/ignorance]sign the petition[/url].-
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almightybob Goon
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It's on my secret list.Socrates wrote:What makes you think Thatguy was being disingenuous about his reasoning, instead of simply wrong?I'm a townie! Honest!
Are you a video gamer? Had enough of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM]this kind of ignorance[/url]? Then [url=http://playstuff.tumblr.com/post/471266385/ignorance]sign the petition[/url].-
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almightybob Goon
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How dare you question the authority of my secret list! Just obey and think whatever my secret list tells you to think!
OK no, you're right. It's not on my secret list. I said that to illustrate how straight-up retarded the "secret list" line is.
Regarding the actual question - I think thatguy is being disingenuous because if a certain event is your only reason for voting someone (as it certainly seems to be from isoing thatguy), it is extremely difficult to make a mistake regarding who said that thing.
For example, look at when thatguy casts the vote, in post 189.
So he reads the entire thread (all 8 pages at this stage). You'd think he'd have an even better idea of who said what. But no. He accuses Ifrinn of attempting to push scumbuddies into the item grab in post 69. He's pretty clear that it's post 69 which has prompted this opinion, clearly referring to where Ifrinn suggests we should nominate a few people.thatguy wrote:Ok, Soc.I've read the entire thread overand, yes, regarding post 69, I began to ponder over Ifrinn myself.
Now look at what Ifrinn says again in 69.
Right there, first line of the offending paragraph. If you'd read this even once, it would be obvious that Ifrinn is responding to an idea already proposed by someone else. 30 seconds of checking shows it's Socrates. If you'd "reread the entire thread over" this should be doubly obvious.Ifrinn wrote:Re: a plan.
But no, to thatguy the concept of choosing who goes in for items was spawned (pun intended) by Ifrinn, and it's a huge enough reason to lay down the vote.
So that is why I think it's disingenuous, rather than a mistake.
Also, remember the Inverse Hanlon's Razor - never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by malice. If we let everyone off every time we catch them because they say "oh soz mistaek" Town will lose every time.
@Thatguy, since I've shown that your reason for voting Ifrinn is, in fact, a case of mistaken identity, I take it that you'll be voting Socrates now, since this plan business is such an epic scumtell in your eyes? Remember this:
Well your man for that is Socrates.Thatguy, post 247, wrote:I made it pretty clear I'm not down for the idea of lining people up for a specific item.I'm a townie! Honest!
Are you a video gamer? Had enough of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM]this kind of ignorance[/url]? Then [url=http://playstuff.tumblr.com/post/471266385/ignorance]sign the petition[/url].-
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almightybob Goon
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I don't know, because it's only recently that I've realised that I've been subconsciously applying it. I suppose I could go back to previous games and look for times when I've used it without realising, but frankly that's a lot of effort. Whereas if I consciously start using it now, I can measure its effectiveness nore clearly.
I've started consciously using it since I heard of the official name for it, and realised the consequences of just applying Hanlon's Razor instead of the Inverse. In Mafia, giving people the benefit of the doubt too often will lead to a scum win. If you catch someone, don't let them off the hook with the "oh oops honest mistake" line.
In RL, Hanlon's Razor is a better way to conduct your life. It's more pleasant and friendly. In Mafia, I prefer the Inverse.I'm a townie! Honest!
Are you a video gamer? Had enough of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM]this kind of ignorance[/url]? Then [url=http://playstuff.tumblr.com/post/471266385/ignorance]sign the petition[/url].-
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almightybob Goon
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Look at it from my point of view.DeathNote wrote:Does anyone else honestly think I am scummy for my PM request now?
DizzyIzzy first drew attention to your request in post 68, page 3.
You immediately acknowledged her vote in post 70.
Ifrinn and myself then both asked why a Townie would need a sample role PM, when they should already have a Town PM. This was in posts 71 and 72 respectively.
You then posted in post 78 some meta excuse about how you made a PM mistake before as Town.
You then posted again in post 88 saying "I tend to just reek of scum".
thatguy then joined the wagon in post 89, and Charlie in post 99.
You then grabbed for the Boomer Bile in post 121, and then brought up an old question about Dr Cyanide's post in 124.
Then comes a response about why you didn't want to wait to get the Boomer Bile in post 129, then again about Cyanide's post in 152.
Then, finally, you post your explanation in post 156, page 7.
So how am I supposed to believe, DN, that you weren't just stalling for time until you could think of a passable excuse?
It took you nearly 100 posts to give your explanation after it was first brought to the Town's attention.
You weren't inactive because you posted 6 times before giving the reason, and you'd clearly read the Town's concerns and knew what they were about because you immediately gave your meta excuse in post 78.
If that really was your initial reason for asking for a Town PM, why did it take you so long to provide it, and why did you post 6 times before doing so? Why did you first attempt to provide a meta defence for your actions, instead of just giving us your "real" reason straight off?
Can you see why I think your excuse is bullshit?I'm a townie! Honest!
Are you a video gamer? Had enough of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM]this kind of ignorance[/url]? Then [url=http://playstuff.tumblr.com/post/471266385/ignorance]sign the petition[/url].-
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almightybob Goon
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A defensive stance, exactly like what you did with "I just always reek of scum"? Yes. A reasoned explanation? No. If you had quickly given a reasonable explanation, I would have been more likely to accept it as true, because you would have had less time to think up a fake explanation.DeathNote wrote:Wouldn't me instantly giving a defensive stance be consider scummy?
The last vote to be placed against you before your reason was Charlie in post 99. By this point it was pretty obvious that a lot of people thought it was suspicious - 4 people placed votes against you in the space of one page.DeathNote wrote:There was little reason for me to be concearned but as more and more people began to question my request as scum, then I was forced to give reasoning.
If you actually explained because of pressure, why didn't you explain then? Why did you still wait another 50+ posts? The pressure was all there from early on.
Seems likely to me that scum-you was finally forced into giving an explanation because of the pressure, because you thought we wouldn't give up until you did.
If you are Town, then your initial request for a Town role PM was the post that limits PR targets. That was the post that marked you as VT or scum, not your eventual explanation.DeathNote wrote:You do understand that by me claiming as I did means that limits scum targets for town PR? Why would I want to do that? That is why I post poned from giving my reasoning.I'm a townie! Honest!
Are you a video gamer? Had enough of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM]this kind of ignorance[/url]? Then [url=http://playstuff.tumblr.com/post/471266385/ignorance]sign the petition[/url].-
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almightybob Goon
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What are you waiting for? You're not going to get proof on D1.
14 pages and you still don't have any read worth laying a vote on?
Sounds more like fencesitting to me.I'm a townie! Honest!
Are you a video gamer? Had enough of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM]this kind of ignorance[/url]? Then [url=http://playstuff.tumblr.com/post/471266385/ignorance]sign the petition[/url].-
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almightybob Goon
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Progress on this?thatguy00 wrote:I'm going to take another HARD detailed look over everything again and take some notes.
Expect something from me very soon.I'm a townie! Honest!
Are you a video gamer? Had enough of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM]this kind of ignorance[/url]? Then [url=http://playstuff.tumblr.com/post/471266385/ignorance]sign the petition[/url].-
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almightybob Goon
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The only time I would ever be 100% confident someone was scum was if I was a sane cop with a guilty on them. You should never be 100% certain someone is scum in any other situation, because for anything else there could always be another Town explanation, however incredibly unlikely. Mafia is not a game of 100% certainty.jmj wrote:Accuse me of fencesitting all you want, but as I have stated before in not just this game, but my completed games, I won't vote unless I am 100% confident that the person I am voting for is scum.
As Dizzy said, votes apply pressure which can cause people to slip up. If you never vote without 100% certainty, your pressure and questioning is empty and meaningless.
In any event, I can demonstrate that you just lied about your meta.
You vote without 100% certainty often and repeatedly in Newbie 878. Most obviously in the RVS, but then several times throughout the thread you vote while obviously not being completely sure of it.
You again vote for Zachrulez without 100% certainty in Open 196. You were clearly not 100% certain about this vote because you reread and retracted that vote a very short time later.
Both times you were a Vanilla Townie, and both times you cast votes without complete certainty.
Did you think nobody would check?I'm a townie! Honest!
Are you a video gamer? Had enough of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM]this kind of ignorance[/url]? Then [url=http://playstuff.tumblr.com/post/471266385/ignorance]sign the petition[/url].-
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almightybob Goon
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You're jumping on a wagon you've only skimmed?Glork wrote:I've only skimmed over the last couple of pages, but am willing to jump this wagon.I'm a townie! Honest!
Are you a video gamer? Had enough of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM]this kind of ignorance[/url]? Then [url=http://playstuff.tumblr.com/post/471266385/ignorance]sign the petition[/url].-
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almightybob Goon
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And that explanation is?Tar wrote:- Socrates is bugging me, but there's one obvious possible explanation for most of his behavior that I can't discount at this time.
What do you make of his post 352?Tar wrote:- Glork's early play reads strongly of Glork-town. Good to know!
1) Agreed about the lack of scumhunting, although I think your third quote there contains his explanation for his DN vote. He seems to imply it was a pressure vote - not the strongest reason, but still not quite completely unexplained.Tar wrote:1) What's missing from these posts? Scumhunting, that's what - bv's posts consist almost entirely of Ifrinn defense, item/setup speculation, and a completely unexplained vote ( ) on DeathNote, which he has NEVER explained or taken off.
2) BV's posting re: Ifrinn early on reads strongly of scum defending to me. (Note to self: Look over Ifrinn more closely ASAP.)
3) What the hell is that comment about activity doing in bv's posts? That's the kind of useless comment I STRONGLY associate with scum (especially IIoA-scum).
2) I'll need to go back and look over this. I can't say it struck me at the time - I was more concerned with what I felt was a very weak case on Ifrinn, being horribly pushed by people who claimed to agree with a case that hadn't been posted.
3) I didn't think much of it, but fair enough. I'll defer to your experience on that point. So is it all useless comments, or just a specific type of useless comment?I'm a townie! Honest!
Are you a video gamer? Had enough of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM]this kind of ignorance[/url]? Then [url=http://playstuff.tumblr.com/post/471266385/ignorance]sign the petition[/url].-
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almightybob Goon
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Yep, I don't care when you just state she's scum. If you put together a case, then I'll start to care.Glork wrote:Plus, nobody seems to care that Izzy is scum, and I'm currently too dis-interested to make a focused case.
Well the wagon is going nowhere fast. Once I decide where I'd rather have my vote I'll vote for that person. I don't see that it matters much whether I unvote in the meantime or just leave it where it is though.Glork wrote:P.S., DeathNote is still protown and you really need to stop voting for him.I'm a townie! Honest!
Are you a video gamer? Had enough of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM]this kind of ignorance[/url]? Then [url=http://playstuff.tumblr.com/post/471266385/ignorance]sign the petition[/url].-
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almightybob Goon
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You were 100% confident that your RVS vote was on scum?jmj wrote:I was 100% confident in my votes at the time. Every single one of my votes was placed witch 100% confidenceI'm a townie! Honest!
Are you a video gamer? Had enough of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM]this kind of ignorance[/url]? Then [url=http://playstuff.tumblr.com/post/471266385/ignorance]sign the petition[/url].-
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almightybob Goon
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I'm never 100% confident in any of my votes, because I always acknowledge the possibility that I might be wrong.jmj3000 wrote:ARe you ever 100% confident that your RVS vote is on scum?
Unless of course I am a sane cop with a guilty result in a setup with no millers or framers or redirecters, then I would be 100% confident.
Well, no. We know your suspects, yes. You told us them in post 340. Socrates, then DeathNote, then bv/Charlie/Dizzy.jmj wrote:Y'all know my suspects, y'all have the basics of my cases against them
What we don't have is your cases against them.
For Socrates, you say it's because he asked the mod questions at the start of the game. You never show why scum would be more likely to do this than Town.
For DN, you go with the flow and say it's for the PM request.
For bv/Charlie/Dizzy, all you say is that they've "done things that are scummy", but you never tell us what those things are or why they're scummy.
So no, we don't have the basics of your cases against them.I'm a townie! Honest!
Are you a video gamer? Had enough of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM]this kind of ignorance[/url]? Then [url=http://playstuff.tumblr.com/post/471266385/ignorance]sign the petition[/url].-
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almightybob Goon
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Have you ever replaced into a game jmj? It it impossible to know what the person you replaced was thinking. The fact that you accept "he wasn't" as a response from dramonic shows how ultimately pointless this is. Just post your cases and quit stalling.
Unvote, vote: jmj3000I'm a townie! Honest!
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almightybob Goon
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almightybob Goon
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OK, whatever. I think I made my feelings about this kind of thing clear when Socrates did this earlier, but I can't be bothered going through it all again.Tarhalindur wrote:I will not elaborate at this time.
1) True. I didn't say it was at all a good reason, I was only pointing out that he did provide a semblance of a reason. I agree that it didn't follow through.Tar wrote:1) If it was a pressure vote, I'd expect him to ACTUALLY PUT PRESSURE on DeathNote - a vote isn't enough to make a pressure vote clear.
2) I await your thoughts with bated breath.
Also on the lines of "reads strongly of scum defense"... now I have to reread YOU. You're effectively defending both Ifrinn and bv310 (the former subtely through that "what I felt was a very weak case on Ifrinn") - two players who pinged my "these players are scumbuddies" radar during my second read - and your tone here is very, very close to what I noticed from bv310 in the early game.
FoS: almightybob
3) More of a gut "know it when I see it", probably based on how it doesn't really advance the game. Why make that post as Town?
2) Oops, forgot to do this. Will get on it.
But I disagree with 2 things in that paragraph.
Firstly, I was neither defending nor attacking bv. All I said was I didn't notice his scumminess at the time. It was meant as a comment on my play rather than any statement about bv's.
Secondly, I was not defending Ifrinn subtly, I was pretty vocal and obvious at the time about my criticism of the Ifrinn case - see post 190 for my response to it.
3) Fair enough.I'm a townie! Honest!
Are you a video gamer? Had enough of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM]this kind of ignorance[/url]? Then [url=http://playstuff.tumblr.com/post/471266385/ignorance]sign the petition[/url].-
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almightybob Goon
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Most ironic post evar?bv310 wrote:I was worried about my activity level because I tend to get called out for lurking a lot.I'm a townie! Honest!
Are you a video gamer? Had enough of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM]this kind of ignorance[/url]? Then [url=http://playstuff.tumblr.com/post/471266385/ignorance]sign the petition[/url].-
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almightybob Goon
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Sorry guys, been slacking from MS a bit recently. Important uni exams coming up, which I realised a few days ago I am woefully underprepared for :S
Anyway, where was I...
Ah yes. I promised Tar I'd reread bv's defence of Ifrinn early D1, because Tar said it read to him like a scum defence.
I went back and looked, and I have to say Tar, I don't really see where you're going with that. As far as I can tell, bv hardly said anything about the early Ifrinn case. As far as I can see he only talks about that wagon once, and he's mainly attacking Socrates' withholding information, which I feel was a valid complaint.
I don't see the scum defence there. If anything it's more eyebrow-raising that he had nothing to say about the Ifrinn wagon other than that, but uber-lurking seems to be the most we can expect from bv.
So I don't think Tar's point against bv is that great. I do however agree with many of the points against him in Izzy's megapost 436. More on that later.
So what happened to setup speculation being a huge scumtell thatguy? Remember how you were willing to vote Ifrinn based solely on that? How come you're not voting Socrates?Thatguy wrote:I'm voting for jmj
It's day one, nobody has any help from a write up, or any information whatsoever, so we go by how someone reads, and in my eyes, it jmj. I'm not a particular fan of day one, and I find it somewhat difficult to make my choice. So I'm going with my gut instinct, jmj.
I actually laughed. Please play more anti-Town, I'm intrigued to see how far you can take it.DeathNote wrote:Vote: almightybob
Deadline is in three days. Lets get something done.
QFT.Starbuck wrote:How ironic that you ask for a case when you refuse to give any.
Dizzy's megapost, although extremely long, does raise good points against bv. I know the tendency with walls is to think "nah can't be arsed" but I do encourage you guys to read it, it's goodposting.
Although for future reference Dizzy, if you preview your post and see it's a wall, please cut down on the quotes to reduce the overall length. EG where you quote Furry's entire post just to say the case is weak - just say "Furry's <post number> case is weak".
Also, I disagree with part of your final conclusion. jmj hasn't been useful. He's just been marginally less useless than bv. I would still be happy with a jmj lynch today.
I really, really don't like this. bv is emphatically NOT the kind of player I want having guns in his hands.bv310 wrote:Grab: Dual Pistols
Seriously, that is just shockingly scummy. Your horrific lurking is causing so many players to question your alignment, but you're still keeping close enough track of the game to be able to go in for items? No. Just no.
Unvote, vote: bv310
Frankly, I would be happy to lynch bv just in case he got the guns, so that they will return to the Town since he won't get an opportunity to use them.I'm a townie! Honest!
Are you a video gamer? Had enough of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM]this kind of ignorance[/url]? Then [url=http://playstuff.tumblr.com/post/471266385/ignorance]sign the petition[/url].-
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almightybob Goon
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I don't think he's Town. I think he's scum.
My understanding is that scum will be able to destroy the item at Night. Therefore if we lynched the winning scum during the day, they would not have opportunity to destroy it and the item would revert to Town.
Honestly, it wasn't really a serious suggestion. Killing anyone to get items back at this stage wouldn't work, because it could be anyone of the 4 that has it.
Although one part of it was true - I would not entrust Town-bv with guns.
I would much rather read something with post numbers than have to read a 30-line post I've already read, just to see the context for a 1-line response.Izzy wrote:Oh God, I *loathe* that posting style. It makes it even less likely that people are going to read it, or not what you're talking about because it adds so muhc time and effort that quoting avoids. It's just unfortunate that I got behind enough to need to post something lthat long.
Maybe that's just me though, I have a fairly good memory so if someone just says "your case on me in post XXX is crap" I'll usually either remember the case or be happy to take the 30 seconds to look it up.I'm a townie! Honest!
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almightybob Goon
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Because that sentence was meant in the hypothetical situation that bv is Town. Reading it again now, I realise I may not have conveyed that very clearly.Steam-Powered Shovel wrote:But then he still wouldn't get to use the item, which is what you said. If that was your understanding of the set-up, why didn't you say "before he gets to destroy them"?
As I was writing it I was thinking to myself "What if bv IS Town and he has the guns now? Do I trust Town-bv to do more good than harm with them?". The answer is no.
When I said scum destroy items at Night, I didn't mean like it would be a deliberate Night action, like they would have to PM the mod "Destroy: Item". I meant that usually all scum actions take place at Night, like talking and placing kill orders etc. So I assumed that if a scum takes an item into the Night phase, it is auto-destroyed. It doesn't seem from the rules as if they get any choice to keep the item.SPS wrote:(why would destroying an item be a night action?)
It's just something I automatically assumed when I read the rules.
-.- So much for nobody claiming who gets which item.bv310 wrote:I'm not included in the item grab, I don't think. I got the Bile, so I don't know if I'm allowed to get the guns too.
Just in case -Grab: Double Pistols.
Anyway, I didn't get the Bile, so from my point of view this claim holds up. Can the other people who went in confirm that they didn't get it?I'm a townie! Honest!
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almightybob Goon
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QFT.Glork wrote:EBWOP: BV, if you are protown and don't get lynched today, DO NOT USE ANY ITEMS YOU RECIEVE. If you're protown, there is a VERY LARGE CHANCE that the scums will (at least try to) kill you, destroying any item you use tonight.I'm a townie! Honest!
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almightybob Goon
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Whoa whoa whoa. Where did I miss bv claiming a power role?DizzyIzzyB13 wrote:Explain your opinions on lynching claimed power roles.I'm a townie! Honest!
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almightybob Goon
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Starbuck wrote:Here
Oh. I thought you meant he'd claimed that his actual role was a power one, as in what he got in his role PM.Izzy wrote:Items confer abilities for the remainder of the game. bv has claimed posession of an item. This means bv has claimed to have an ability for the length of the game (while he's alive). What else do you think he is?
Standard practice when someone claims a PR is to check for a counter-claim, and lynch the liar if there is one. Since bv already claimed his role unprompted, we might as well check now. This will be especially easy in this situation because we know the only people who could counterclaim are me, DN and DocPotter.
I didn't get the Bile.
DN/DocPotter?I'm a townie! Honest!
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almightybob Goon
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Regarding jmj's claim - the flavour matches the character of Jimmy Gibbs Jr.
I wouldn't be opposed to a mass nameclaim, although I'm not entirely sure it will help us.
As people have said, the scum may very well have been given safeclaims, and if they were those safeclaims could just as easily be the main Survivors as they could support characters. I don't think I would trust scumhunting based on the nameclaim, it's just faulty logic.I'm a townie! Honest!
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almightybob Goon
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Wait wait wait.
jmj gets to L-1, claims what is essentially Vanilla Townie, and everyone believes it and doesn't want to lynch anymore?
Did I miss something? At what point did people start abandoning wagons because of a VT claim?I'm a townie! Honest!
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almightybob Goon
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I certainly did miss that. What startling evidence convinced everyone of this?Furry wrote:What you missed is that he is town.
Not without some other intervening factor, no. I wouldn't ask for a claim unless I was happy to lynch that person. I only ask for the claim to check that I'm not going to accidentally lynch a Town PR. A VT claim would never sway me, I work under the assumption that everyone will claim VT anyway.Furry wrote:Have you never seen a wagon fall off a VT claim before?I'm a townie! Honest!
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almightybob Goon
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Fair enough.Glork wrote:That's funny, because only ONE person unvoted, and Furry was never voting for JMJ to begin with. So how did "everybody" jump off the wagon?
Why did a VT claim suddenly convince you to leave the jmj wagon?I'm a townie! Honest!
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almightybob Goon
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Please point to some aspect of his play that you feel is pro-Town. Because as far as I can see, all he's done is stall all game and then regurgitate arguments made by other people.Furry wrote:His play
So if three people all do something scummy, and one person gets wagoned over the other two, that person is likely Town? What if after that wagon, the second person gets wagoned? Are they likely Town? What if the third person then gets wagoned?Furry wrote:the fact that he got wagoned over others
You end up saying all three people who did something scummy are Town.
Not buying that logic.
What's that?Furry wrote:I can even argue the "doomed VT" claim if I feel like itI'm a townie! Honest!
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almightybob Goon
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I'll need to read that a few times, I didn't quite follow it.
I'm not on his wagon. I just don't see why this VT claim could possibly have swayed anyone. I'm very interested in Glork's reasoning.Furry wrote:Unvote him now.
Also, the part I mostly wanted an answer to wasalmightybob wrote: Please point to some aspect of his play that you feel is pro-Town. Because as far as I can see, all he's done is stall all game and then regurgitate arguments made by other people.I'm a townie! Honest!
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almightybob Goon
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Because I felt that bv was a better lynch, so I moved my vote to him.Furry wrote:AMB - Why arent you voting jmj?
Hey wait - if your theory only applies to the first person to be wagoned for a particular reason, then we can have a bv lynch! Right?I'm a townie! Honest!
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almightybob Goon
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-.-DizzyIzzyB13 wrote:No. bv is a claimed power role.
Note to self - request sarcasm tags from mith.I'm a townie! Honest!
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almightybob Goon
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DocPotter, bv claimed he got the Boomer Bile. Both myself and DN have said that we did not get it. You are the only person who can counterclaim him now. Do you wish to do so?I'm a townie! Honest!
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almightybob Goon
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Why, do you want me to vote for him?Furry wrote:Why arent you voting jmj? You havent answered this yet
I'm not currently voting for him because:
1) I'm waiting to see if DocPotter counterclaims bv for the Bile or not before I move my vote anywhere
2) I'm waiting for you to satisfactorily answer the following question (this will be the third time of me asking you):
If you can demonstrate to me why you think he's Town, Ialmightybob, post 579, wrote: Also, the part I mostly wanted an answer to wasalmightybob, post 574, wrote: Please point to some aspect of his play that you feel is pro-Town. Because as far as I can see, all he's done is stall all game and then regurgitate arguments made by other people.mightnot vote for him. OTOH, deadline is tomorrow so I might vote him anyway.
I'm sure you can imagine why I wouldn't be impressed by that. You were voting him before his claim, so presumably you thought he was scum then. There's nothing in the claim that would make me change my mind.Glork wrote:Now I know I said the scums very likely have fakeclaims, but my gut just says that the claim rings true. I have no "reasoning" behind it.
Also,@Mod: Please note I will be V/LA from 2nd - 7th April, going skiiing. I may be able to get online maybe once or twice during this time, but it's unlikely.I'm a townie! Honest!
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almightybob Goon
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Starbuck:
KISE & RECK's UNIVERSAL LAWS wrote: 1.VOTING:[...] If no one reaches the needed votes for a lynch by the time of deadline, there will be no lynch at all that day.I'm a townie! Honest!
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almightybob Goon
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