Cyclic Experimentation Set x02 - [Game Over]
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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And so it begins.
I have failed in RQS in the past, and do not like RVS, so here's a new experiment.
Post your personality. If you have two separate personas "ingame, real life", then make them separate.
I am analytical and determined, but most importantly focused. Although I view those things as good, I also view them as my biggest flaws.
Something like that is sufficient I'd say.-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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Please don't start an argument on day 1 diddin. I know that that wasn't your intention, it's just that I know what you're talking about and I don't want any of the day absorbed in a fit. Don't respond to this as the sole content of a post, as then my reason for making this post will have been wasted.
Also Fourseen this is me responding for you, so now you don't have to either.
pedit: Personality, EtheralCookie, if you will.-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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Implosion, I read MoI's plan from x01, and I liked it a lot, and would like to go with it this game, at least for now. It doesn't demand any claiming at the present so it is okay to tentatively agree while we gametheory in private.
If scum have a consequence to passing to their members by mod-design, why would they receive an ability to directly counter that disadvantage?
Projectmatt, not really, I'm not completely sure of what I will be able to do with the information, but from what I've seen from other games, it could come in handy.-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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>anti town abilities
We need a definition, it would seem.
In post 53, The Eruci wrote:I never actually placed a comprehensive list, but my mod copy from x01 is spoilered below:
Spoiler: Cyclic x01 - Ability List
Here's the list that I was given on last games' abilities
Please highlight the ones which are anti town.-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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Basically, I don't think that inherently anti-town abilities are in transit. I think that any ability which is clearly anti-town is going to be tagged into a scums' role PM, not ability PM, so I feel like intentionally eliminating abilities for the most part is meaningless.
Sorry I'm a bit impatient, and crypto is fluffing so I figured I'd just post my point.
Also, I think that scum WOULD consider using poison as early as night 1, depending on the circumstances. What I'm getting at is that I think it is very possible that scum have abilities which promote additional ways to kill, perhaps even the poison kill. This furthers my belief that claiming to get rid of roles is pointless, as what we probably should be worried about is not in transit.-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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Mod, if an ability similar to disconnect exists (say, an ability which is transitive and removes abilities which the owner is the target of), would it also remove non-transitive abilities, say, a mafia's role ability if he has one?
Tree, eh, yeah it's pretty bad I guess, but not completely bad. I mean, it gives us a situation where "it's mylo, lynch and give treestump to the guy who is very likely scum" and get another day to lynch. Something like that could happen, treestump isn't all bad.
Virus looks to me like town compulsive delayed one-shot dayvig. We can control it for the most part at least between two people if it exists. It isn't inherently bad at all.-
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Implosion, I don't think that morale is a good thing to factor in when deciding if something is anti-town. That is to say, that human emotion hardly determines the mechanical adjectives one could apply to something like an ability.
Offline could be beneficial, this isn't x02.
I think that anti-virus could be directed such that scum likely wouldn't mess with it. Although they realistically could, I just think that since Virus isn't inherently bad, anti-virus logically isn't either.
Reroute just changes the cycling, and there are situations such that it would be useful for town to have this ability. Say, it is going to be lylo, and you are town and you have Reroute, and someone has ability X which will be gg in the event scum gets it, and useful in the event town. You reroute them onto yourself, and save a potential disaster.
So I don't see anything... inherently bad.
Oh, and disconnect just got 100% less inherently scummy. I checked with the mod earlier, and while Eruci (town) are guaranteed vanilla roles, scum are not guaranteed, so I highly suspect that scum have nonvanilla role PMs. Disconnect is not bad if this is the case at all.-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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mod, would an ability like disconnect as earlier describe get rid of the mafia's factional kill?-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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I don't like RVS because it literally does nothing. Discussion will begin in games regardless of if we randomly vote people, and that is all I will say on the matter.
Alright; Virus is bad. But none of the other abilities are.
Also after looking through Cyclic 1 I've found that while the doublevote isn't listed as a name, it is counted publicly in the number next to the person who has the secret vote on them.-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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For instance in this VC, a secret vote is on Saint.
Spring, I have played a large with just 1 scum group, is that your only reason for disliking the plan?
The reason I didn't state the plan until I was at my third post was because I didn't think to. That's really it. The plan is much less efficient now that there is scum-scum passing. What it also does is keep everything organized, and mafia will be hardpressed to lie. But yeah I see your point, I'll theory more about when I have time.-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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Crypto:
In post 17, Junpei wrote:I read MoI's plan from x01, and I liked it a lot, and would like to go with it this game, at least for now.
MoI: Gametheory in private as in, by yourself, in your head, in notepad, or whatever you use, theory about the game. We aren't about to clog the thread up with pages of people fleshing out ideas. If you have a good idea after working on it solo, post it, but if I posted everything I thought about in regards to gametheory, you'd be mad.
Furthermore, once RVS has been executed I believe that looking back at it IS good. I feel tells can be generated from it. What I do not believe is that there needs to exist an RVS, or at least it doesn't need be confined to its current form. People credit the idea of random voting itself causing discussion. I disagree. I feel it is the game itself which generates discussion, and randomly voting is simply a fad which has caught on in order to do so.-
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Also people need to stop speculating on Toogs' role, it was a terrible thing to claim the way he did, and I'm a bit confused as to why MoI didn't jump on it, as he's someone who I would expect to.
Early on I find crypto to be town, he is asking some good questions if I remember correctly, despite is fluff, and I feel that his playstyle may be getting in the way of that. You must look and see which scummy things are inherent of the playstyle, and which are being hidden in the play style.
I can say by the way that after thinking about it, MoI's plan is the BEST plan, and WILL be followed. There will be no exceptions to this unless you provide a compelling argument, but I doubt one will generate.
Sinestro is... well he's hiplop and hiplop is frustrating. But that won't be the basis of my voting him. He has made 7 posts with saying nothing other than toog is town based on meta, which by the way, he hasn't explained. No comments on anything else other than "MoI /agree" which is something everyone should be doing anyway.vote Sinestro
Penegrine: Why are you voting with codetags? Why not names?
Also FoSing Stringer Bell for rolefishing.-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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In post 50, Junpei wrote:
The reason I didn't state the plan until I was at my third post was because I didn't think to. That's really it.
Sorry Crypto, this is the correct quote.
Sorry for triple posting, I will try to make sure this isn't a frequent event.-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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Magister Ludi, is is page 6: if not posting is a null tell by standards, it certainly is a null tell now. It's the content of the post which is important. No one has been inactive enough as the game has but just started to warrant a prodvote.
Toog did NOT have to say "that which someone has already labeled anti-town", rather should have said "after consideration, my ability is anti-town".
Stringer, justifying rolefishing with trying to further explain a post which carefully does not rolefish, rather tries to stay true to the plan of which no one is opposing, is ridiculous. Go to jail, do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars.-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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You seriously think I was saying "MoI, lets gametheory in our scum QT"?...
..
Anyway, Stringer, you don't have a good place to vote?-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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Okay sly... uh.. so my mentioning MoI is what made me worthy of a vote? Or at least, it is what decided for you between not voting and voting me?
I'm not going to waste more time on this, anyone can see how dumb your slip is.-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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Guys: I highly doubt that the mod has thrown a hidden wrench which we can't predict to mess up the obvious plan. Rather, the mod would have us learn that the plan is not going to be so strong anymore, as such, the poison kill was made. I believe that is the primary change, with perhaps a scum ability to mess with something regarding it. What I'm getting at is my current theory is that scum have an ability to mess with the ability distribution such that the poison kill is more attractive.
So -- Stop going "oh but the mod would make it fail~~", because that string is broken now.
Bunnylover, crypto has actually not been too scummy to be scum. There are a good handful of great things he has said, I suggest you ISO him, it's an easy read.
Crypto: Could you explain your vote on warrior in a little more detail?-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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Not that I don't agree with you with the scum read on Stringer, but do those two quotes summarize your read on him? I'd like you to be more articulate about that.
Also..
" 'crypto 61 wrote:for a loose cannon you are awfully conservative with your vote'
Agreed."
Did you not see the response to this?
here.
For when you respond yes, why don't you find it applicable?-
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You can't justify an action with stating that the action was executed at a prior moment in time. I suppose then that a holocaust is in order then as well?
Extremas aside, that is poor logic. Crypto says that someone defined as 'loose canon' (a term which, is highly interpretive from person to person) should not be conservative with their vote. You agreed. You believe that a 'loose canon' should not be conservative with their vote.
Now; if that is true, and loose canons shouldn't be conservative with votes, then we have a problem. However, the term 'loose canon' has no accurate definition, and as such we cannot assume one meant X when they meant Y. So we cannot say that his definition is gibberish.
Do you understand what I'm trying to say?
pedit: -.- Why is it that when I forget ONE thing, people think it's scummy. I know I'm great and all, but I'm not a perfect person. The previous statement is me just venting, respond to the content of this post please.
pedit2: Crypto, diddins' vote has merit and has good logic to it. Crypto, explain it again then, because I don't understand it.-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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So your reason for voting him is that he doesn't have a 'townie passion'?
Hm.. that doesn't make sense to me though. I mean, I hardly could call many of the players in this game playing with passion. So I'll have to ask you...
Please highlight the names which are playing with townie passion in bold. Lets see how many scumreads you have.-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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No, you don't understand, your intuition tells you that...
Set Y is all mafia
pX --> Set Y
So, it stands to reason that we should find out who is X, or in this case, not using townie passion. Come on, you can get tons of reads this way. Surely you want solid intuitive reads that you base votes off of?-
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You would do good to actually respond, as it is very important, otherwise your entire foundation for your vote is compromised and you will look very bad.
projectmatt: explain your vote.-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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vote fourseencircumstance
Not dealing with this. This ends now.-
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Read the context of the links Sly, they are very relevant to warriormode.
Also if you haven't seen crypto's MD thread then I suggest you check it out. He is probably experimenting on how serious/credible a person looks who uses little-no punctuation/capitalization.
Also, why did you feel the need to +1 a post from page 3?-
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In post 196, FourseenCircumstance wrote:hmmm..... Ponder.....
Crypto is a pretty active player and that is very helpful for the town early on to generate discussion and what not so I'd like to see him stick around.....unvote
Did you really just come to this realization that Crypto is active?
..
Yeah, you need to die, you're really going to be useless the whole game aren't you? Either your mafia playing awful on purpose or you're town and you're playing awful on purpose. Either way you're playing awful on purpose and need to die.-
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In post 75, Magister Ludi wrote:I like this StringerBell guy!
Yeah, warriormode's initial post was very worthy of a vote. I would say that crypto sprinting away from a warrior vote looks suspicious if warrior ever flips scum. (Its also possible crypto is trying to go with the idea that a lot of posts equal town, and is just posting high volumes to this end.)
In post 78, crypto wrote:okay, okay, magister ludi, you've cowed me into busing my scum mate. it's only page 3, so i'm confident enough that by the end of day one he'll have wormed his way out of getting lynched like all early-game obvious scum do, thanks to his own recovery as well as to the town's wondrous ability to overlook plain scummy behavior and instead obsess over ridiculous conspiracy theories.
unvote
vote: warriormode
what i have on magna is very thin, so this satisfies me.
preview edit:
i want to get a feel for your thought process. that's a cornerstone of effective scumhunting.magister ludi wrote:Crypto, why would you want me to explain why someone should be voted, if you agree that they should be voted?
enlighten me.magna wrote:You've presented what at this early stage is the scummiest post I have seen so far.
This is a quote from the guy who said that failures are forever.
Contradiction Crypto? I think so.-
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Mod, there may be an error, I read 1 vote the count on Fourseen, while there are two people voting him. This may be the work of an ability but given your prior miscue, I'm not sure.-
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In post 245, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
No, you moron. It means that you play in a specific Anti-Town herp a derp playstyle manner where you specificly go out of your way to emulate scummy play regardless of alignment. Your "read me some other way" is a clear indication of this.
It means your play is going to be scummy and bad regardless. Even if you are Town odds are you will not help out Town long Term.
No go sit and the corner and stop yapping like a Tea-cup Poodle. Some of us have scum to catch.
Come on MoI, you were in TV Mafia, you saw what Fourseen did, you should be saying this to him as well!
I mean, really look at his ISO, let me show you what I mean:
In post 186, FourseenCircumstance wrote:Alright,,
So Diddin I don't know where you were going in your first post nor do I care...
Warrirmode do you have any sort of postrestriction?
Crypto, your counter case against Diddin fairly weak, but the case on you is even weaker. hmm ponder.....
But looking at the plan from Magna....... It seems like the case be...... you are likely a good target at least not a good informational lynch for town.
unvote. Vote: Crypto
Allow me to summarize
>Didden I dont understand/care about your thought process
>[insert nonscumhunting question]
>Case on crypto is weaker than case on diden
>Magna's case implies crypto good information lynch
>vote crypto
>information lynch
>basically crypto talks a lot so lynch him
In post 188, FourseenCircumstance wrote:The consensus of the posts so far says magna knows what he is doing in this game, so I am going along with it.
>I'm sheeping Magna
In post 196, FourseenCircumstance wrote:hmmm..... Ponder.....
Crypto is a pretty active player and that is very helpful for the town early on to generate discussion and what not so I'd like to see him stick around.....unvote
>crypto is active so keep crypto alive
But.. crypto being active is what made him a good information lynch ergo your entire basis of your last vote! So.. contradiction.
Also he has stated no real reads or given any real comments, he has backpedaled in the above post on the only opinion he had. It's time to get rid of this guy now. He is very scummy already and he is just going to annoy me with his awful posts and people going "VI TOO SCUMMY TO BE SCUM!". If we encourage this type of play by letting him live, then it will spread. He dies now.
I just didn't want an argument over TV mafia spilling out, I wanted to give Fourseen a chance because for the most part everyone deserves a second chance. But no, he is dying after his recent posts.-
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I'll speed up your wait, Kdub.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... =3&t=18300
ISO him, I believe he asks to be lynched many times.-
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Give me a good case on warrior, no one else can.
Links to posts too while explaining.-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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In response to this
First paragraph is ridiculous. Who votes who is more important than the reasoning and thought behind it? I see we have a fundamental disagreement...
So he is scummy for agreeing with Implosions' case? I don't see it as forced really, I mean, you are stretching things way out of proportion it would seem. The fact he didn't comment on MoI's plan isn't reason to vote him, which seems to be the nail in his coffin for you.
You saying that Fourseen was a planned counterwagon to Warrior is RIDICULOUS. That would mean that scum would have had to know that Fourseen was going to do that, in otherwords they planned. The only way they could have done this is if they i) have daytalk and ii) Fourseen is scum, in which case your argument makes no sense. No, it is just that fourseen is very scummy and we decided to vote him instead of someone else of whom no one on the wagon up to this point has been able to articulate their reasons for voting.
You're going to have to link MoI's posts when talking about that, because I simply cannot follow that without links.
MoI would have posted that plan regardless of his alignment, so don't factor that in.
pedit: scum don't bus Ludi? Or perhaps a better question is, scum don't vote other scum Ludi? Or perhaps a better question is, should I always make decisions and reads based on my other reads early in the game Ludi?-
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In post 269, Magister Ludi wrote:You're sort of naive as well. If we assume the same number of scum as last time, six, it makes no sense for three of the scum team to be bussing another of their buddies to death, as etheral claims is happening, when there is an equally good wagons on players who are no their buddies. And no one is really going to get town cred if this wagon on forseen actually flips scum, which I doubt will happen, so the benefits are further mitigated.
Really, we are going to assume the setup has the same distribution of alignment? No, we aren't.
Your reasoning for why Warrior is scum is awful, and Fourseen has reaching L-4, not L-3, and it is for being so absolutely scummy and useless in the past. Fourseen is just going to drag this game down; go read the ISO of the game I gave you.
How about this theory: Fourseen is scum, and so is warrior, and most of the initial votes of the wagon were town, and so scum started jumping on, rather to lose their useless pal than someone of more mental capacity.
I could come up with theories like yours all day. I once thought the same as you, that any old theory X is true because it vaguely describes the situation. but time will change your opinion.-
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Projectmatt, I'm not lynching him because he's 'playing badly', rather he is playing very scummy. Go read my post on the matter, Fourseen backpedals hard.-
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I would like a more detailed explanation on your warrior scumread, because the case against him is terrible, and I want to know if you have anything else to say since you added 'for rolefishing'.
Well that IS the meta diden was probably going to give, given that he was in the game (as a hydra, I don't remember the hydra's name though). But diddin using that game as proof of his towniness is ridiculous. Fourseen knows that him and I and Magna are in the game, and that we'd all be very vocal. As scum I definitely would seem him acting like in that game to sway us.-
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Too scummy to be scum, MoI? I don't like your logic at all. Fourseen has been scummy, lurking, and utterly stupid. I am not focusing on point 3 for my vote, points 1 and 2 are also important. Do not misrep me by saying "Junpei is just screaming "LYNCH THE IDIOT!"."
Also, I know crypto from epicmafia, he's a complete "love to fuck around and troll" kind of person.
Springlullaby, I don't understand the contradiction. My case was VERY clear. The fact that many people have read it and you're the only one who doesn't understand it is evidence of that. And if you think that case is long, you are going to cry later in the game. At first I saw his post and was like "god damnit, he's going to do that thing where he acts extremely scummy and float by through the game", so I voted him. That was half policy/half anticipative scumminess. Then he posted more and I had a firm scum read on him.
diddin where did that vote come from? I don't see anywhere other than you putting my name on a list that you are displeased with me.
Also it's too bad that crypto is replacing out, he wasn't as VI as you implied MoI, just his posting style is indicative of VI, but falsely so.
I also don't like Toogalo leaning on the personality question I gave out so much.-
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I'd say it is a developed read. That's what happens when you're active and constantly scumhunting like I am. Also I find it funny that you say that backpedalling is not an adequate reason for a vote, yet you are voting me for supposed backpedalling.
Using rhetoric like "pretty pointless to my eyes" which cannot be proved false yet you don't explain is trickery, as is "padded with paragraphs", "derp through process". I find him scummy AND annoying, they are not contradictory.
Also I did not imply that you were stupid, stop overreacting, I was refuting your point that my case was unclear. Also, it is not a matter of "you can't fault me because no one has yet", it is a matter of "others have found the subject of my fault as bestowed by you to be such that fault is not in order".
Also it was not a misrep saying you saying my case was long was you enunciating a scum tell because that is exactly how it was written.-
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You seemed to mean that no one had said not that I was of fault because of subject X, but that no one had yet pointed said fault out. I retorted that said fault was not delayed due to a discredit to others (or you), but that you are misinterpreting the facts.
I'm suspicious of..
Toog, Stringer, Magister Ludi, didden
That's off the top of my head, not including Fourseen of course. I'm unclear if you are asking who I am suspicious of or who I think is scum at this juncture.-
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In post 332, Toogeloo wrote:I'm going out on a limb and statingcrypto/DGB almost 100% confirmed town at this point.That old wagon might be a good place to get some dirt.
Why?-
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In post 335, Toogeloo wrote:The manner in which crypto exited the game suggests as such.
So you're practically clearing the slot as town because of something which is pure WIFOM?-
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Hello DrippingGoofball, glad to see you joined in!
What are your current reads/analysis on the game/gamestate?-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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Is quarantined files leaning scum or null? what about running programs?-
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Furcolow what does that even mean. Post content next time you prod dodge please.
DrippingGoofBall, post analysis please, your proclamations mean nothing to me without anything to back them up.
Whisper, get in here and post please.
In post 340, Toogeloo wrote:In post 337, Junpei wrote:In post 335, Toogeloo wrote:The manner in which crypto exited the game suggests as such.
So you're practically clearing the slot as town because of something which is pure WIFOM?
I am. Doesn't mean you have to accept it.
This is a bad post, admits he has no grounds to call crypto town (pure wifom) but does it anyway.-
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So you don't want to put work into the game, very well. Explain your town read on SlySly.-
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Okay... so DrippingGoofball has no actual reads, and is instead just putting up a list to give the appearance of scumhunting, got it. Can't wait to campaign for your lynch tomorrow.-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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six scum? Why six?-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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I feel like RedCoyote spends too much time catching up. But time will tell if his style is coming from town or scum, too soon to tell.-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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In post 387, Kdub wrote:Guys, Furc is probably town. Read his first few posts again and then tell me if you think anybody fakes that mistakeif they had the opportunity to coordinate with scumbuddies before posting.Third-party is not ruled out, but I can't see him being mafia.
...scum slip?
I would like to address all the suspicion against me as it is all interrelated. I have only played one large theme before (TV mafia, the game Peregrine linked), and I was fully engaged as I had nothing else really going on. I haven't been as keyed in. As a result, I have been picking up a lot of scum reads. I haven't been getting town reads so much, and I haven't been organized.
The Fourseen/Crypto affairs are separate from my norm. They are very radical style players of whom I'm used to enough to know when to put my foot down. In the end of things, I wasn't sure of my read on crypto, he was hard to read, but my position on it now is he is town from his ISO (albeit I haven't reread it), NOT from his exit. Fourseen is just ridiculous and it upsets me to see he's in this game because he's going to be overtly scummy and useless, I assure you.
Coyote: I will not sit and watch DBG do whatever she pleases. I don't care if she holds herself above me, I view her as an equal until proven otherwise, and I am positive that I won't budge on that. So, get off your high horse DBG. It's nice to see that you have explanation for your reads, now, what is your direct opinion on Fourseen? I want an explanation, I don't care who you are, you can't go "I'm held to a lower standard of explanations than the rest of the players" and expect me to just go "oh, okay".-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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Please don't compare me to Fate. Anyone but Fate.
Kdub, I think... well it is not that conclusive, here are my thoughts on it:
1) If he's scum, then he is more than likely scum with Fourseen, and is trying to use the fact that they have daytalk and haven't been using it with Fourseen as a means to clear him.
2) If he's town, then it is very likely he just got confused and thought there was daytalk last game.
This is purely interpretation, just like the "scumslip" I pointed out. But your response is bad enough for me to think that what I pointed out has merit. Furcolow's first post was on page 12. You think that he used a pregame discussed post for 12? You think that pregame that they coached him on what to say on page 12? If scum had pregame talk and no day talk, Furcolow was certainly acting independently if he's scum when he started posting.-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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Kdub; lets say that Furclow is i) prone to make that mistake as town ii) not likely to come up with that plan as scum. Isn't it still very realistic to think that maybe another one of the scum members told Furclow to at some point do that? I hadn't thought of that at first, but if they know his meta, they could suggest it.
Ghostlin, I'm sorry if I find more 2-4 more people scummy in a large theme game than you would like, but that's just what it is, also I don't have 10 scum reads, so not sure what you're going on about.
As for "this is null tell!" "no, it's a scum tell!"
This is how you decide: does intuition tell you that scum would do this more than ideal town? If not, then it's not a scum tell. I can't comment on "flimsy votes" because the adjective 'flimsy' has no basis in my view. I don't know what post you guys are talking about, please link to posts (don't quote it... that just makes a big wall, link it using [url] tags).-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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I don't have an organized list, I'm what we call unorganized.
Hey, I'll start acting like Fate, then no one would complain that I'm scummy, just that they don't like my play style!
Diddin, I strongly believe that fourseen is scum, so should I do what MoI does and go
every post?MORE FOURSEEN VOTES PLEASEEE
Okay, I will.-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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Okay, hold on, let me put my Fourseen face on and try this again..
"..yes i realize this... okay your right"
Is that what 449 should say? Sorry for elaborating on what I think, and not making baseless accusations like you just did.-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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Stringer, everyone who thinks Fourseen is scum should be voting him, he can be our lynch today if people don't go "doesnt look like it's happening", advocate for it, don't let people switching around votes for pressure and what not deter you from what you want to do.
MORE FOURSEEN VOTES PLEASE!!!-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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.....
What should town Fourseen have said? 186 shouldn't have even came about, as it is a pretty poor post in itself.
188 shouldn't have happened, it is basically "im sheeping MoI".
196 also shouldn't have happened, if he was town he'd have a good reason for his crypto vote that isn't the reason for his unvoting.
What town Fourseen should have posted cannot be found in those posts, they are:
real reads
real analysis
instead we got backtracking through a contradiction when pressured, and... that's it.-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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>Junpei said X
>Junpei defended his reasoning for saying X
>Junpei then started scumhunting
>junpei is scum trying to cover up X
...............
I am going to give this game more attention when I can get time, and I mean more harder analysis so that I can beat scum with conviction.-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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What's with the colored text?
Anyway, in the last quote, obvious scumhunting.. second to last, giving my requested opinion on a player who hadn't done much, don't see the issue, Sinestro was an earlier read whom I need to reread to reunderstand and it had good foundation for a vote, next is me giving a memory list of people I've suspected all of various degrees, and my read on DBG was based off of faking reads, and I was just trying to pressure her, and if you'll note her exchange with MoI, she apparently has reasons for that list.
DBG has 9 scum reads of varying degrees and you don't seem to care; why?-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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Why won't you respond to the last line?-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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Is jumping off the wagon because others are scummy? Oh boy, I really have no other way of explaining this other than going into some theory, so I'll make it brief:
Town rationale:
I see people are jumping off the wagon, it is losing steam, and I have another good scum read, so I will vote that to advocate for the wagon which weighs my highest probability for success with probability for scum.
Scum rationale:
I see people are jumping off this wagon, I should...
i) take the oppurtunity to get off my buddy
ii) blend in, and vote someone else
So... now we need to decide if there is i) a way to differentiate or ii) a large balance of likelihood (that is to say, the town rationale being far more likely than scum rationale in terms of practicality). Well, I think that we can't really tell if someone is just voting someone else to vote someone else or if they're really doing it to achieve the town rationale. Unless we knew that they were fake scumhunting, in which case this whole tell is worthless. I think the town rationale is very common nowadays, but the scum rationale is also very viable.
So, I conclude it is a null tell. Hopefully that will give you some insight into my thought process on tells. I don't think every tell out like this, but I have a good feel I think for what I do and do not like as far as tells generally go. I find SB scummy, but I don't have a case for you, I just have noticed many things throughout the game that have been scummy, I'm too tired to remember but yeah, he's a solid scum read.-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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In post 482, implosion wrote:Oh, and nopoint was basically just looking at the first few posts of his ISO (he only had like 3 then iirc) and thinking that they felt like they were structured oddly.I wasn't even necessarily calling him that scummy; i was saying that I'dbe willing to wagon him and see where it goes.
What? Can you explain the rationale here, because wagoning a non-scum read for fun makes no sense. Hell, wagoning a non-scum read makes no sense.-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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In post 498, PeregrineV wrote:Poor vote early game on an annoying player? What town player would ever do that?
Sheeping town MoI is perfectly acceptable if you believe him to be right. Sheeping scum MoI is bad. The key is to figure which one he is.
But since he did vote for crappy reasons in 186, if he realized he was wrong or changed his mind, if he is town, what should he have done?
You are basically saying he is scum for doing X. So I'm asking you if not X, then what?
tl;dr- Fourseen debacle is null, as town would take the same action.
Okay, so you are going to try and chalk up his awful first post to "early game annoyance vote"? No, I won't let you because that's ridiculous, this isn't RVS, and Fourseen didn't act like he was just pissed off at crypto.
Sheeping town MoI is not okay because town MoI is not 100% accurate, even MoI will tell you that he'd rather you scumhunt independently than just follow his word (I would assume, as any other opinion is outrageous).
He backtracked 100% on every opinion (the only opinion) he had, and since then has done nothing but a crappy pbp on a likely scum pal, and asked a few questions. Why is the PBP crappy? Well it has no links! It is poorly written in regards to the english language so that if I'm not looking right at the post, I can't infer what you mean, and you dont link anything.
If not X, then reads and analysis, that's not at all what we got.
In post 489, springlullaby wrote:
IIoA? What is IIoA in what I have said?
1. You are obviously wrong in saying that 'i'm not taking a stance' because I'm currently voting Junpei who is on the fourseen wagon which I think is the scummiest wagon.
2. I don't think either you or stringer is scum atm. What is this 1v1 mentality crap? Your argument about Stringer was townish when it was made but it has been overstated for very many pages now. I'm not buying it. I think stringer's defence is ok and don't think that his unvote warrior stuff is as scummy as you make it out to be.
Everybody on the fourseen wagon is using crappy arguments. Junpei is the scummiest because he tried to pass his call policy lynch for something more than what it was and trying to actively defend that stance when called on it. The only thing that is townish about him is activity, but when you plough through it, it's just noise with everyone whom he seems to be suspicious of being what I identify as weaker players. Read back his replies to me, I don't like how he handled it. I'll venture to say now that the diddin vote looks like a bussing vote.
1. So I'm on a scummy wagon so I'm scummy? Define scummy wagon. Define what is scummy about being on it inherently.
It started with something of a policy lynch, but it EVOLVED into something more. That's what happens to reads for town as the game goes on, the EVOLVE. And I specifically explained how and why it evolved, yet you do not care. Define noise with examples, define what is townish about my activity, go through all my suspicions and pinpoint how they are all weak players. How would town have handled the replies?
In post 516, DrippingGoofball wrote:In post 513, Magister Ludi wrote:DGB wrote:warriormode I have pegged as town. For his own-wagon analysis.
I'm not sure what you really mean by this. Are you saying that he analyzed his own wagon, and the act of doing that is a town tell?
Yes.
Can I hear the logic behind this?
Furcolow: You listed quite a few scum reads. Lets see your reasoning on them, they are at the bottom of the linked post.-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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I guess you could link me to a dozen or so games where this tell was dropped from town, since you have no reason as to why town would do it, the last thing I can do is make sure that you actually think that and aren't just pulling things out of thin air.-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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I do not have 7 or 8 people who I really really want to lynch...
I never let anyone do as they please as if they own the place, and feel free to read through any of my past games to see evidence of that.
Toog fluffs, toog talks about irrelevant business (very much so meta), toog has reads that don't make sense (crypto is almost 100% confirmed town for something he admits is pure wifom), and his self proclaimed "I lurk day 1!" nonsense.-
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Junpei Jack of All Trades
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