Cyclic Experimentation Set x02 - [Game Over]

[Junpei]

And so it begins.

I have failed in RQS in the past, and do not like RVS, so here's a new experiment.

Post your personality. If you have two separate personas "ingame, real life", then make them separate.

I am analytical and determined, but most importantly focused. Although I view those things as good, I also view them as my biggest flaws.

Something like that is sufficient I'd say.

[Junpei]

Please don't start an argument on day 1 diddin. I know that that wasn't your intention, it's just that I know what you're talking about and I don't want any of the day absorbed in a fit. Don't respond to this as the sole content of a post, as then my reason for making this post will have been wasted.

Also Fourseen this is me responding for you, so now you don't have to either.

pedit: Personality, EtheralCookie, if you will.

[Junpei]

Implosion, I read MoI's plan from x01, and I liked it a lot, and would like to go with it this game, at least for now. It doesn't demand any claiming at the present so it is okay to tentatively agree while we gametheory in private.

If scum have a consequence to passing to their members by mod-design, why would they receive an ability to directly counter that disadvantage?

Projectmatt, not really, I'm not completely sure of what I will be able to do with the information, but from what I've seen from other games, it could come in handy.

[Junpei]

>anti town abilities

We need a definition, it would seem.

I never actually placed a comprehensive list, but my mod copy from x01 is spoilered below:

Spoiler: Cyclic x01 - Ability List

Ability Message Standard Format:

//OUTPUT PERMISSION SCHEMA//

These are your available abilities for Night X. You must choose, by the end of the night, who you would like to send your ability to. If you have multiple abilities, you must send each one to a different person.

//Available Abilities

//END PERMISSION SCHEMA//

All Available Abilities:

//OUTPUT PERMISSION SCHEMA//

These are your available abilities for Night X. You must choose, by the end of the night, who you would like to send your ability to. If you have multiple abilities, you must send each one to a different person.

Trace

[

Tracker

]

- You may target a player to be tracked, thus discovering who that player has targetted that night.

Null

[

Roleblocker

]

- You may target a player, thus causing any attempted actions by this player this Night to fail. They will not be informed in any way that they were roleblocked.

Firewall

[

Doctor

]

- You may target a player to be protected, this will protect them from one kill during the night. The targeted player is not informed that they were protected. You will not be informed if you protected the player from a kill. You may not self-target.

Log

[

Watcher

]

- You may target a player to be watched, thus discovering who targeted that player during the night. You will be told the names of the players your choice targeted, if any.

Void

[

Vanilla

]

- You are unable to perform any activity during the night as your permission set does not allow it. You are not required to submit a cycling choice.

Join

[

Neighbourizor

]

- You may choose one player to join the Neighbor Quicktopic. You may discuss the game with these players at any time you are alive. You are not required to submit a cycling choice as the player you choose to join the neighborhood will be selected as your cycling choice.
Current Members of the Neighborhood are:

[

q21

]

.

Reinitialize

[

Ability Reuser

]

- You may choose one of the following listed abilities that have been removed from gameplay to use as your action. Available Actions:

[

Watcher

]

[

????

]

.

Disconnect

[

Ability Remover

]

- If you are targeted by an ability this night, that ability is removed from play.

Mod Note (reveal only for Mafia members): You may also choose to target a player, and if they have one of two undisclosed abilities, that ability will be removed from play.

Reroute

[

Ability Redirector

]

- You may choose to redirect the cycling choice of one player to a player of your choice.

[

Example: You would like Player A to send their ability to Player C instead of Player B, you would send in as your action:

Redirect: Player A to Player C.

]

.

Retrieve

[

Void Collector

]

- You may choose one of the following listed abilities that have been caught in the void to use as your action. Available Actions:

[

Watcher

]

[

????

]

.

Monitor

[

Ability Cop

]

- You may target a player to be monitored, thus discovering whether they have an ability, and how many abilities. Actual ability names will not be revealed.

Hibernate

[

Bulletproof

]

- You are immune to kill methods related to weaponry that fires projectiles.

Offline

[

Treestump

]

- You may not vote but are unlynchable for the duration of the next Day Phase. You may still post in the game thread and any Quicktopics you may have access to.

Upgrade

[

Double Voter

]

- You have an additional vote for the entirety of the next Day Phase. You may control this vote by sending a message to the Moderator containing your secret vote.

Virus

[

Timed Explosive

]

- You have been infected by a virus. It will activate after a predetermined number of posts, killing the player currently in possession of this virus when that post number is reached. To prevent yourself from being terminated, you must pass this ability within the 75 posts that follow your receiving it. If you fail to do so, it will activate prematurely, causing you to be terminated. For the purposes of this ability, "Pass By" timer begins from the current post number in thread when I view that you have received this message. You will be notified of your "Pass By" post when it is designated. This is a nonstandard ability due to its abnormal cycle rate, and may be passed between factional members.

Anti-Virus

[

Limited Day Vig

]

- You have a special device that is designed to rid the system of a virus that is thought to be residing in it. Once the virus activates this device will also activate, allowing you to select a player during the day to centralize the virus in so it can be removed from the system. This centralization of the virus in one person causes them to be terminated from the system, along with a portion of the virus, until the virus is exterminated.
Current Device Status:

[

Inactive

]

.

//END PERMISSION SCHEMA//

Here's the list that I was given on last games' abilities

Please highlight the ones which are anti town.

[Junpei]

Basically, I don't think that inherently anti-town abilities are in transit. I think that any ability which is clearly anti-town is going to be tagged into a scums' role PM, not ability PM, so I feel like intentionally eliminating abilities for the most part is meaningless.

Sorry I'm a bit impatient, and crypto is fluffing so I figured I'd just post my point.

Also, I think that scum WOULD consider using poison as early as night 1, depending on the circumstances. What I'm getting at is that I think it is very possible that scum have abilities which promote additional ways to kill, perhaps even the poison kill. This furthers my belief that claiming to get rid of roles is pointless, as what we probably should be worried about is not in transit.

[Junpei]

Mod, if an ability similar to disconnect exists (say, an ability which is transitive and removes abilities which the owner is the target of), would it also remove non-transitive abilities, say, a mafia's role ability if he has one?

Tree, eh, yeah it's pretty bad I guess, but not completely bad. I mean, it gives us a situation where "it's mylo, lynch and give treestump to the guy who is very likely scum" and get another day to lynch. Something like that could happen, treestump isn't all bad.

Virus looks to me like town compulsive delayed one-shot dayvig. We can control it for the most part at least between two people if it exists. It isn't inherently bad at all.

[Junpei]

Implosion, I don't think that morale is a good thing to factor in when deciding if something is anti-town. That is to say, that human emotion hardly determines the mechanical adjectives one could apply to something like an ability.

Offline could be beneficial, this isn't x02.

I think that anti-virus could be directed such that scum likely wouldn't mess with it. Although they realistically could, I just think that since Virus isn't inherently bad, anti-virus logically isn't either.

Reroute just changes the cycling, and there are situations such that it would be useful for town to have this ability. Say, it is going to be lylo, and you are town and you have Reroute, and someone has ability X which will be gg in the event scum gets it, and useful in the event town. You reroute them onto yourself, and save a potential disaster.

So I don't see anything... inherently bad.

Oh, and disconnect just got 100% less inherently scummy. I checked with the mod earlier, and while Eruci (town) are guaranteed vanilla roles, scum are not guaranteed, so I highly suspect that scum have nonvanilla role PMs. Disconnect is not bad if this is the case at all.

[Junpei]

mod, would an ability like disconnect as earlier describe get rid of the mafia's factional kill?

[Junpei]

I don't like RVS because it literally does nothing. Discussion will begin in games regardless of if we randomly vote people, and that is all I will say on the matter.

Alright; Virus is bad. But none of the other abilities are.

Also after looking through Cyclic 1 I've found that while the doublevote isn't listed as a name, it is counted publicly in the number next to the person who has the secret vote on them.

[Junpei]

For instance in this VC, a secret vote is on Saint.

Spring, I have played a large with just 1 scum group, is that your only reason for disliking the plan?

The reason I didn't state the plan until I was at my third post was because I didn't think to. That's really it. The plan is much less efficient now that there is scum-scum passing. What it also does is keep everything organized, and mafia will be hardpressed to lie. But yeah I see your point, I'll theory more about when I have time.

[Junpei]

Crypto:

I read MoI's plan from x01, and I liked it a lot, and would like to go with it this game, at least for now.

MoI: Gametheory in private as in, by yourself, in your head, in notepad, or whatever you use, theory about the game. We aren't about to clog the thread up with pages of people fleshing out ideas. If you have a good idea after working on it solo, post it, but if I posted everything I thought about in regards to gametheory, you'd be mad.

Furthermore, once RVS has been executed I believe that looking back at it IS good. I feel tells can be generated from it. What I do not believe is that there needs to exist an RVS, or at least it doesn't need be confined to its current form. People credit the idea of random voting itself causing discussion. I disagree. I feel it is the game itself which generates discussion, and randomly voting is simply a fad which has caught on in order to do so.

[Junpei]

Also people need to stop speculating on Toogs' role, it was a terrible thing to claim the way he did, and I'm a bit confused as to why MoI didn't jump on it, as he's someone who I would expect to.

Early on I find crypto to be town, he is asking some good questions if I remember correctly, despite is fluff, and I feel that his playstyle may be getting in the way of that. You must look and see which scummy things are inherent of the playstyle, and which are being hidden in the play style.

I can say by the way that after thinking about it, MoI's plan is the BEST plan, and WILL be followed. There will be no exceptions to this unless you provide a compelling argument, but I doubt one will generate.

Sinestro is... well he's hiplop and hiplop is frustrating. But that won't be the basis of my voting him. He has made 7 posts with saying nothing other than toog is town based on meta, which by the way, he hasn't explained. No comments on anything else other than "MoI /agree" which is something everyone should be doing anyway.

vote Sinestro

Penegrine: Why are you voting with codetags? Why not names?

Also FoSing Stringer Bell for rolefishing.

[Junpei]

The reason I didn't state the plan until I was at my third post was because I didn't think to. That's really it.

Sorry Crypto, this is the correct quote.

Sorry for triple posting, I will try to make sure this isn't a frequent event.

[Junpei]

Magister Ludi, is is page 6: if not posting is a null tell by standards, it certainly is a null tell now. It's the content of the post which is important. No one has been inactive enough as the game has but just started to warrant a prodvote.

Toog did NOT have to say "that which someone has already labeled anti-town", rather should have said "after consideration, my ability is anti-town".

Stringer, justifying rolefishing with trying to further explain a post which carefully does not rolefish, rather tries to stay true to the plan of which no one is opposing, is ridiculous. Go to jail, do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars.

[Junpei]

You seriously think I was saying "MoI, lets gametheory in our scum QT"?...
..

Anyway, Stringer, you don't have a good place to vote?

[Junpei]

Okay sly... uh.. so my mentioning MoI is what made me worthy of a vote? Or at least, it is what decided for you between not voting and voting me?

I'm not going to waste more time on this, anyone can see how dumb your slip is.

[Junpei]

Guys: I highly doubt that the mod has thrown a hidden wrench which we can't predict to mess up the obvious plan. Rather, the mod would have us learn that the plan is not going to be so strong anymore, as such, the poison kill was made. I believe that is the primary change, with perhaps a scum ability to mess with something regarding it. What I'm getting at is my current theory is that scum have an ability to mess with the ability distribution such that the poison kill is more attractive.

So -- Stop going "oh but the mod would make it fail~~", because that string is broken now.

Bunnylover, crypto has actually not been too scummy to be scum. There are a good handful of great things he has said, I suggest you ISO him, it's an easy read.

Crypto: Could you explain your vote on warrior in a little more detail?

[Junpei]

Not that I don't agree with you with the scum read on Stringer, but do those two quotes summarize your read on him? I'd like you to be more articulate about that.

Also..
" '

crypto 61 wrote:for a loose cannon you are awfully conservative with your vote

'
Agreed."

Did you not see the response to this?
here.

For when you respond yes, why don't you find it applicable?

[Junpei]

You can't justify an action with stating that the action was executed at a prior moment in time. I suppose then that a holocaust is in order then as well?

Extremas aside, that is poor logic. Crypto says that someone defined as 'loose canon' (a term which, is highly interpretive from person to person) should not be conservative with their vote. You agreed. You believe that a 'loose canon' should not be conservative with their vote.

Now; if that is true, and loose canons shouldn't be conservative with votes, then we have a problem. However, the term 'loose canon' has no accurate definition, and as such we cannot assume one meant X when they meant Y. So we cannot say that his definition is gibberish.

Do you understand what I'm trying to say?

pedit: -.- Why is it that when I forget ONE thing, people think it's scummy. I know I'm great and all, but I'm not a perfect person. The previous statement is me just venting, respond to the content of this post please.

pedit2: Crypto, diddins' vote has merit and has good logic to it. Crypto, explain it again then, because I don't understand it.

[Junpei]

So your reason for voting him is that he doesn't have a 'townie passion'?

Hm.. that doesn't make sense to me though. I mean, I hardly could call many of the players in this game playing with passion. So I'll have to ask you...

VP7633971 - MagnaofIllusion [Online.]
FY2944752 - implosion [Online.]
QN3377293 - EtherealCookie [Online.]
NV9891464 - RedCoyote [Online.]
LV1086665 - Workdawg [Online.]
KD4483656 - springlullaby [Online.]
YN9933507 - warriormode [Online.]
UG9095648 - whispersilk [Online.]
DZ2705139 - Furcolow [Online.]
JW2804010 - nopointinactingup [Online.]
OS7326311 - Magister Ludi [Online.]
PZ5915512 - diddin [Online.]
TI1875313 - SlySly [Online.]
IW8573414 - Junpei [Online.]
XX4698015 - crypto [Online.]
WE5874016 - Sinestro [Online.]
GH8479717 - PeregrineV [Online.]
SN5795818 - Kdub [Online.]
BT1357719 - Stringer Bell [Online.]
AB3817120 - Drunken Piper [Online.]
ED5235621 - projectmatt [Online.]
ZO1739422 - FourseenCircumstance [Online.]
HI9210223 - Bunnylover [Online.]
RX3447924 - wazzatron [Online.]
CY3601025 - Toogeloo [Online.]

Please highlight the names which are playing with townie passion in bold. Lets see how many scumreads you have.

[Junpei]

No, you don't understand, your intuition tells you that...

Set Y is all mafia
pX --> Set Y

So, it stands to reason that we should find out who is X, or in this case, not using townie passion. Come on, you can get tons of reads this way. Surely you want solid intuitive reads that you base votes off of?

[Junpei]

You would do good to actually respond, as it is very important, otherwise your entire foundation for your vote is compromised and you will look very bad.

projectmatt: explain your vote.

[Junpei]

vote fourseencircumstance

Not dealing with this. This ends now.

[Junpei]

Read the context of the links Sly, they are very relevant to warriormode.

Also if you haven't seen crypto's MD thread then I suggest you check it out. He is probably experimenting on how serious/credible a person looks who uses little-no punctuation/capitalization.

Also, why did you feel the need to +1 a post from page 3?

[Junpei]

hmmm..... Ponder.....

Crypto is a pretty active player and that is very helpful for the town early on to generate discussion and what not so I'd like to see him stick around.....

unvote

Did you really just come to this realization that Crypto is active?

..
Yeah, you need to die, you're really going to be useless the whole game aren't you? Either your mafia playing awful on purpose or you're town and you're playing awful on purpose. Either way you're playing awful on purpose and need to die.

[Junpei]

I like this StringerBell guy!

Yeah, warriormode's initial post was very worthy of a vote. I would say that crypto sprinting away from a warrior vote looks suspicious if warrior ever flips scum. (Its also possible crypto is trying to go with the idea that a lot of posts equal town, and is just posting high volumes to this end.)

okay, okay, magister ludi, you've cowed me into busing my scum mate. it's only page 3, so i'm confident enough that by the end of day one he'll have wormed his way out of getting lynched like all early-game obvious scum do, thanks to his own recovery as well as to the town's wondrous ability to overlook plain scummy behavior and instead obsess over ridiculous conspiracy theories.

unvote
vote: warriormode

what i have on magna is very thin, so this satisfies me.

preview edit:

Crypto, why would you want me to explain why someone should be voted, if you agree that they should be voted?

i want to get a feel for your thought process. that's a cornerstone of effective scumhunting.

You've presented what at this early stage is the scummiest post I have seen so far.

enlighten me.

This is a quote from the guy who said that failures are forever.

Contradiction Crypto? I think so.

[Junpei]

Mod, there may be an error, I read 1 vote the count on Fourseen, while there are two people voting him. This may be the work of an ability but given your prior miscue, I'm not sure.

[Junpei]

No, you moron. It means that you play in a specific Anti-Town herp a derp playstyle manner where you specificly go out of your way to emulate scummy play regardless of alignment. Your "read me some other way" is a clear indication of this.

It means your play is going to be scummy and bad regardless. Even if you are Town odds are you will not help out Town long Term.

No go sit and the corner and stop yapping like a Tea-cup Poodle. Some of us have scum to catch.

Come on MoI, you were in TV Mafia, you saw what Fourseen did, you should be saying this to him as well!

I mean, really look at his ISO, let me show you what I mean:

Alright,,


So Diddin I don't know where you were going in your first post nor do I care...

Warrirmode do you have any sort of postrestriction?

Crypto, your counter case against Diddin fairly weak, but the case on you is even weaker. hmm ponder.....

But looking at the plan from Magna....... It seems like the case be...... you are likely a good target at least not a good informational lynch for town.

unvote. Vote: Crypto

Allow me to summarize

>Didden I dont understand/care about your thought process
>[insert nonscumhunting question]
>Case on crypto is weaker than case on diden
>Magna's case implies crypto good information lynch
>vote crypto
>information lynch
>basically crypto talks a lot so lynch him

The consensus of the posts so far says magna knows what he is doing in this game, so I am going along with it.

>I'm sheeping Magna

hmmm..... Ponder.....

Crypto is a pretty active player and that is very helpful for the town early on to generate discussion and what not so I'd like to see him stick around.....

unvote

>crypto is active so keep crypto alive

But.. crypto being active is what made him a good information lynch ergo your entire basis of your last vote! So.. contradiction.

Also he has stated no real reads or given any real comments, he has backpedaled in the above post on the only opinion he had. It's time to get rid of this guy now. He is very scummy already and he is just going to annoy me with his awful posts and people going "VI TOO SCUMMY TO BE SCUM!". If we encourage this type of play by letting him live, then it will spread. He dies now.

I just didn't want an argument over TV mafia spilling out, I wanted to give Fourseen a chance because for the most part everyone deserves a second chance. But no, he is dying after his recent posts.

[Junpei]

I'll speed up your wait, Kdub.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... =3&t=18300

ISO him, I believe he asks to be lynched many times.

[Junpei]

Give me a good case on warrior, no one else can.

Links to posts too while explaining.

[Junpei]

In response to this
First paragraph is ridiculous. Who votes who is more important than the reasoning and thought behind it? I see we have a fundamental disagreement...

So he is scummy for agreeing with Implosions' case? I don't see it as forced really, I mean, you are stretching things way out of proportion it would seem. The fact he didn't comment on MoI's plan isn't reason to vote him, which seems to be the nail in his coffin for you.

You saying that Fourseen was a planned counterwagon to Warrior is RIDICULOUS. That would mean that scum would have had to know that Fourseen was going to do that, in otherwords they planned. The only way they could have done this is if they i) have daytalk and ii) Fourseen is scum, in which case your argument makes no sense. No, it is just that fourseen is very scummy and we decided to vote him instead of someone else of whom no one on the wagon up to this point has been able to articulate their reasons for voting.

You're going to have to link MoI's posts when talking about that, because I simply cannot follow that without links.

MoI would have posted that plan regardless of his alignment, so don't factor that in.

pedit: scum don't bus Ludi? Or perhaps a better question is, scum don't vote other scum Ludi? Or perhaps a better question is, should I always make decisions and reads based on my other reads early in the game Ludi?

[Junpei]

You're sort of naive as well. I

f we assume the same number of scum as last tim

e, six, it makes no sense for three of the scum team to be bussing another of their buddies to death, as etheral claims is happening, when there is an equally good wagons on players who are no their buddies. And no one is really going to get town cred if this wagon on forseen actually flips scum, which I doubt will happen, so the benefits are further mitigated.

Really, we are going to assume the setup has the same distribution of alignment? No, we aren't.

Your reasoning for why Warrior is scum is awful, and Fourseen has reaching L-4, not L-3, and it is for being so absolutely scummy and useless in the past. Fourseen is just going to drag this game down; go read the ISO of the game I gave you.

How about this theory: Fourseen is scum, and so is warrior, and most of the initial votes of the wagon were town, and so scum started jumping on, rather to lose their useless pal than someone of more mental capacity.

I could come up with theories like yours all day. I once thought the same as you, that any old theory X is true because it vaguely describes the situation. but time will change your opinion.

[Junpei]

Projectmatt, I'm not lynching him because he's 'playing badly', rather he is playing very scummy. Go read my post on the matter, Fourseen backpedals hard.

[Junpei]

I would like a more detailed explanation on your warrior scumread, because the case against him is terrible, and I want to know if you have anything else to say since you added 'for rolefishing'.

Well that IS the meta diden was probably going to give, given that he was in the game (as a hydra, I don't remember the hydra's name though). But diddin using that game as proof of his towniness is ridiculous. Fourseen knows that him and I and Magna are in the game, and that we'd all be very vocal. As scum I definitely would seem him acting like in that game to sway us.

[Junpei]

Too scummy to be scum, MoI? I don't like your logic at all. Fourseen has been scummy, lurking, and utterly stupid. I am not focusing on point 3 for my vote, points 1 and 2 are also important. Do not misrep me by saying "Junpei is just screaming "LYNCH THE IDIOT!"."

Also, I know crypto from epicmafia, he's a complete "love to fuck around and troll" kind of person.

Springlullaby, I don't understand the contradiction. My case was VERY clear. The fact that many people have read it and you're the only one who doesn't understand it is evidence of that. And if you think that case is long, you are going to cry later in the game. At first I saw his post and was like "god damnit, he's going to do that thing where he acts extremely scummy and float by through the game", so I voted him. That was half policy/half anticipative scumminess. Then he posted more and I had a firm scum read on him.

diddin where did that vote come from? I don't see anywhere other than you putting my name on a list that you are displeased with me.

Also it's too bad that crypto is replacing out, he wasn't as VI as you implied MoI, just his posting style is indicative of VI, but falsely so.

I also don't like Toogalo leaning on the personality question I gave out so much.

[Junpei]

I'd say it is a developed read. That's what happens when you're active and constantly scumhunting like I am. Also I find it funny that you say that backpedalling is not an adequate reason for a vote, yet you are voting me for supposed backpedalling.

Using rhetoric like "pretty pointless to my eyes" which cannot be proved false yet you don't explain is trickery, as is "padded with paragraphs", "derp through process". I find him scummy AND annoying, they are not contradictory.

Also I did not imply that you were stupid, stop overreacting, I was refuting your point that my case was unclear. Also, it is not a matter of "you can't fault me because no one has yet", it is a matter of "others have found the subject of my fault as bestowed by you to be such that fault is not in order".

Also it was not a misrep saying you saying my case was long was you enunciating a scum tell because that is exactly how it was written.

[Junpei]

You seemed to mean that no one had said not that I was of fault because of subject X, but that no one had yet pointed said fault out. I retorted that said fault was not delayed due to a discredit to others (or you), but that you are misinterpreting the facts.

I'm suspicious of..
Toog, Stringer, Magister Ludi, didden

That's off the top of my head, not including Fourseen of course. I'm unclear if you are asking who I am suspicious of or who I think is scum at this juncture.

[Junpei]

I'm going out on a limb and stating

crypto/DGB almost 100% confirmed town at this point.

That old wagon might be a good place to get some dirt.

Why?

[Junpei]

The manner in which crypto exited the game suggests as such.

So you're practically clearing the slot as town because of something which is pure WIFOM?

[Junpei]

Hello DrippingGoofball, glad to see you joined in!

What are your current reads/analysis on the game/gamestate?

[Junpei]

Is quarantined files leaning scum or null? what about running programs?

[Junpei]

Furcolow what does that even mean. Post content next time you prod dodge please.

DrippingGoofBall, post analysis please, your proclamations mean nothing to me without anything to back them up.

Whisper, get in here and post please.

The manner in which crypto exited the game suggests as such.

So you're practically clearing the slot as town because of something which is pure WIFOM?

I am. Doesn't mean you have to accept it.

This is a bad post, admits he has no grounds to call crypto town (pure wifom) but does it anyway.

[Junpei]

So you don't want to put work into the game, very well. Explain your town read on SlySly.

[Junpei]

Okay... so DrippingGoofball has no actual reads, and is instead just putting up a list to give the appearance of scumhunting, got it. Can't wait to campaign for your lynch tomorrow.

[Junpei]

six scum? Why six?

[Junpei]

I feel like RedCoyote spends too much time catching up. But time will tell if his style is coming from town or scum, too soon to tell.

[Junpei]

Guys, Furc is probably town. Read his first few posts again and then tell me if you think anybody fakes that mistake

if they had the opportunity to coordinate with scumbuddies before posting.

Third-party is not ruled out, but I can't see him being mafia.

...scum slip?

I would like to address all the suspicion against me as it is all interrelated. I have only played one large theme before (TV mafia, the game Peregrine linked), and I was fully engaged as I had nothing else really going on. I haven't been as keyed in. As a result, I have been picking up a lot of scum reads. I haven't been getting town reads so much, and I haven't been organized.

The Fourseen/Crypto affairs are separate from my norm. They are very radical style players of whom I'm used to enough to know when to put my foot down. In the end of things, I wasn't sure of my read on crypto, he was hard to read, but my position on it now is he is town from his ISO (albeit I haven't reread it), NOT from his exit. Fourseen is just ridiculous and it upsets me to see he's in this game because he's going to be overtly scummy and useless, I assure you.

Coyote: I will not sit and watch DBG do whatever she pleases. I don't care if she holds herself above me, I view her as an equal until proven otherwise, and I am positive that I won't budge on that. So, get off your high horse DBG. It's nice to see that you have explanation for your reads, now, what is your direct opinion on Fourseen? I want an explanation, I don't care who you are, you can't go "I'm held to a lower standard of explanations than the rest of the players" and expect me to just go "oh, okay".

[Junpei]

Please don't compare me to Fate. Anyone but Fate.

Kdub, I think... well it is not that conclusive, here are my thoughts on it:

1) If he's scum, then he is more than likely scum with Fourseen, and is trying to use the fact that they have daytalk and haven't been using it with Fourseen as a means to clear him.

2) If he's town, then it is very likely he just got confused and thought there was daytalk last game.

This is purely interpretation, just like the "scumslip" I pointed out. But your response is bad enough for me to think that what I pointed out has merit. Furcolow's first post was on page 12. You think that he used a pregame discussed post for 12? You think that pregame that they coached him on what to say on page 12? If scum had pregame talk and no day talk, Furcolow was certainly acting independently if he's scum when he started posting.

[Junpei]

Kdub; lets say that Furclow is i) prone to make that mistake as town ii) not likely to come up with that plan as scum. Isn't it still very realistic to think that maybe another one of the scum members told Furclow to at some point do that? I hadn't thought of that at first, but if they know his meta, they could suggest it.

Ghostlin, I'm sorry if I find more 2-4 more people scummy in a large theme game than you would like, but that's just what it is, also I don't have 10 scum reads, so not sure what you're going on about.

As for "this is null tell!" "no, it's a scum tell!"

This is how you decide: does intuition tell you that scum would do this more than ideal town? If not, then it's not a scum tell. I can't comment on "flimsy votes" because the adjective 'flimsy' has no basis in my view. I don't know what post you guys are talking about, please link to posts (don't quote it... that just makes a big wall, link it using [url] tags).

[Junpei]

I don't have an organized list, I'm what we call unorganized.

Hey, I'll start acting like Fate, then no one would complain that I'm scummy, just that they don't like my play style!

Diddin, I strongly believe that fourseen is scum, so should I do what MoI does and go

MORE FOURSEEN VOTES PLEASEEE

every post?

Okay, I will.

[Junpei]

Okay, hold on, let me put my Fourseen face on and try this again..

"..yes i realize this... okay your right"

Is that what 449 should say? Sorry for elaborating on what I think, and not making baseless accusations like you just did.

[Junpei]

Stringer, everyone who thinks Fourseen is scum should be voting him, he can be our lynch today if people don't go "doesnt look like it's happening", advocate for it, don't let people switching around votes for pressure and what not deter you from what you want to do.

MORE FOURSEEN VOTES PLEASE!!!

[Junpei]

.....

What should town Fourseen have said? 186 shouldn't have even came about, as it is a pretty poor post in itself.

188 shouldn't have happened, it is basically "im sheeping MoI".

196 also shouldn't have happened, if he was town he'd have a good reason for his crypto vote that isn't the reason for his unvoting.

What town Fourseen should have posted cannot be found in those posts, they are:

real reads
real analysis

instead we got backtracking through a contradiction when pressured, and... that's it.

[Junpei]

>Junpei said X
>Junpei defended his reasoning for saying X
>Junpei then started scumhunting

>junpei is scum trying to cover up X

...............

I am going to give this game more attention when I can get time, and I mean more harder analysis so that I can beat scum with conviction.

[Junpei]

What's with the colored text?

Anyway, in the last quote, obvious scumhunting.. second to last, giving my requested opinion on a player who hadn't done much, don't see the issue, Sinestro was an earlier read whom I need to reread to reunderstand and it had good foundation for a vote, next is me giving a memory list of people I've suspected all of various degrees, and my read on DBG was based off of faking reads, and I was just trying to pressure her, and if you'll note her exchange with MoI, she apparently has reasons for that list.

DBG has 9 scum reads of varying degrees and you don't seem to care; why?

[Junpei]

Why won't you respond to the last line?

[Junpei]

Is jumping off the wagon because others are scummy? Oh boy, I really have no other way of explaining this other than going into some theory, so I'll make it brief:

Town rationale:
I see people are jumping off the wagon, it is losing steam, and I have another good scum read, so I will vote that to advocate for the wagon which weighs my highest probability for success with probability for scum.

Scum rationale:
I see people are jumping off this wagon, I should...

i) take the oppurtunity to get off my buddy
ii) blend in, and vote someone else

So... now we need to decide if there is i) a way to differentiate or ii) a large balance of likelihood (that is to say, the town rationale being far more likely than scum rationale in terms of practicality). Well, I think that we can't really tell if someone is just voting someone else to vote someone else or if they're really doing it to achieve the town rationale. Unless we knew that they were fake scumhunting, in which case this whole tell is worthless. I think the town rationale is very common nowadays, but the scum rationale is also very viable.

So, I conclude it is a null tell. Hopefully that will give you some insight into my thought process on tells. I don't think every tell out like this, but I have a good feel I think for what I do and do not like as far as tells generally go. I find SB scummy, but I don't have a case for you, I just have noticed many things throughout the game that have been scummy, I'm too tired to remember but yeah, he's a solid scum read.

[Junpei]

Oh, and nopoint was basically just looking at the first few posts of his ISO (he only had like 3 then iirc) and thinking that they felt like they were structured oddly.

I wasn't even necessarily calling him that scummy

; i was saying that I'd

be willing to wagon him and see where it goes

.

What? Can you explain the rationale here, because wagoning a non-scum read for fun makes no sense. Hell, wagoning a non-scum read makes no sense.

[Junpei]

Poor vote early game on an annoying player? What town player would ever do that?

Sheeping town MoI is perfectly acceptable if you believe him to be right. Sheeping scum MoI is bad. The key is to figure which one he is.

But since he did vote for crappy reasons in 186, if he realized he was wrong or changed his mind, if he is town, what should he have done?

You are basically saying he is scum for doing X. So I'm asking you if not X, then what?

tl;dr- Fourseen debacle is null, as town would take the same action.

Okay, so you are going to try and chalk up his awful first post to "early game annoyance vote"? No, I won't let you because that's ridiculous, this isn't RVS, and Fourseen didn't act like he was just pissed off at crypto.

Sheeping town MoI is not okay because town MoI is not 100% accurate, even MoI will tell you that he'd rather you scumhunt independently than just follow his word (I would assume, as any other opinion is outrageous).

He backtracked 100% on every opinion (the only opinion) he had, and since then has done nothing but a crappy pbp on a likely scum pal, and asked a few questions. Why is the PBP crappy? Well it has no links! It is poorly written in regards to the english language so that if I'm not looking right at the post, I can't infer what you mean, and you dont link anything.

If not X, then reads and analysis, that's not at all what we got.

IIoA? What is IIoA in what I have said?
1. You are obviously wrong in saying that 'i'm not taking a stance' because I'm currently voting Junpei who is on the fourseen wagon which I think is the scummiest wagon.
2. I don't think either you or stringer is scum atm. What is this 1v1 mentality crap? Your argument about Stringer was townish when it was made but it has been overstated for very many pages now. I'm not buying it. I think stringer's defence is ok and don't think that his unvote warrior stuff is as scummy as you make it out to be.

Everybody on the fourseen wagon is using crappy arguments. Junpei is the scummiest because he tried to pass his call policy lynch for something more than what it was and trying to actively defend that stance when called on it. The only thing that is townish about him is activity, but when you plough through it, it's just noise with everyone whom he seems to be suspicious of being what I identify as weaker players. Read back his replies to me, I don't like how he handled it. I'll venture to say now that the diddin vote looks like a bussing vote.

1. So I'm on a scummy wagon so I'm scummy? Define scummy wagon. Define what is scummy about being on it inherently.

It started with something of a policy lynch, but it EVOLVED into something more. That's what happens to reads for town as the game goes on, the EVOLVE. And I specifically explained how and why it evolved, yet you do not care. Define noise with examples, define what is townish about my activity, go through all my suspicions and pinpoint how they are all weak players. How would town have handled the replies?

warriormode I have pegged as town. For his own-wagon analysis.

I'm not sure what you really mean by this. Are you saying that he analyzed his own wagon, and the act of doing that is a town tell?

Yes.

Can I hear the logic behind this?

Furcolow: You listed quite a few scum reads. Lets see your reasoning on them, they are at the bottom of the linked post.

[Junpei]

I guess you could link me to a dozen or so games where this tell was dropped from town, since you have no reason as to why town would do it, the last thing I can do is make sure that you actually think that and aren't just pulling things out of thin air.

[Junpei]

I do not have 7 or 8 people who I really really want to lynch...

I never let anyone do as they please as if they own the place, and feel free to read through any of my past games to see evidence of that.

Toog fluffs, toog talks about irrelevant business (very much so meta), toog has reads that don't make sense (crypto is almost 100% confirmed town for something he admits is pure wifom), and his self proclaimed "I lurk day 1!" nonsense.

[Junpei]

Oh, well I honestly thought you were grouping me with MoI.

Anyway, the idea that I made the slip "while I gametheory in my scum QT" is ridiculous. Please find something else to go bananas over.

[Junpei]

Oh, I remember why I thought that you were grouping me with MoI:

My quote says "we can agree", which is directly in respect to MoI's plan. Ergo, agreeing with MoI, the pronoun 'we' now stands for MoI and I, making the implication that I told MoI to talk to me in a scum QT about gametheory in your eyes.

Anyway, just wanted to clear out the lies and point out the liars.

pedit: liar(s)

[Junpei]

Okay, so me and implosion are scum pals then? Is that what you're saying?

[Junpei]

No one ever referenced six scum before, I would have noticed, someone would have noticed other than you. If you insist on the third line, then you will be lynched swiftly

MoI, I'm not backing away from my wagon yet, there's no reason to, the only reason this wagon has lost steam is because Fourseen has faded into the background. He has yet to make a good post, he is scum.

Stringer, if Epicmafia has an IQ of 100, this site has an IQ of 120. Hopefully that clears that up.

[Junpei]

You're scum. You're just scum. You live in a pond with the other scum, and all of you and your scum buddies float to the top and are scum.

Or I'm lynching a VI, and in a 25 player game Day 1 with no other information, I'm not upset about this.

Vote fourseen then? Furc is a great lynch, but why not Fourseen?

[Junpei]

Implosions' early posts made me think he was a great analytical and thorough player, but I suppose that is not the case as his recent posting is full of proclamations and waffling. Care to show up to the game Implosion, or is this how you always play?

I thought this was an amazing playerlist... but many things aren't turning out the way I thought they would.

Wazza could you elaborate more on the contradiction from RedCoyote? I'm not following it.

[Junpei]

The village idiot is the one who fears to talk for fear of shame. The village idiot is the one who is in the corner of the cave crying while the real men fight the monster. The village idiot, must die, for the monster feasts off of fear, and that is all the village idiot is: fear.

That is all you need to know, Furcolow, as you have submitted yourself into the ranks of a village idiot.

[Junpei]

See: those reads, ignoring my obvious bias on the second one, make no sense.

How do you have a scumread on DBG/DrukenPiper again? Why is implosion no longer scummy? Why are you only stating your top3?

pedit: I also seemed to have missed the nopoint case which has garnered 5 votes.

[Junpei]

MoI, I'm not backing away from my wagon yet, there's no reason to, the only reason this wagon has lost steam is because Fourseen has faded into the background. He has yet to make a good post, he is scum.

Yes, there is plenty of reason to.

1. Deadline is in approximately 4 days. You keeping your vote attached to a dead wagon is at best unproductive.
2. Yes, there is good reason why the wagon died. Continuing to say otherwise is scummy.
3. Not making what you call ‘good’ posts is not a scum-tell. Furc hasn’t made a good post all game. Is he scum?

1) I don't view it as dead just yet, but I will likely be switching to Stinger, many people would vote for FC I"m sure, as he is useless and scummy
2) No it's not scummy, and if you think it is, then call me 'scumtastic', there is no reason for FC's wagon dying other than other people showing up as scummy and FC fading into the background. That's not a good reason.
3) Furc is scum, yes. I believe there's a post around here where I"ve ISO'd him and said he's been mostly useless and that he's a great lynch. But FC is more blatant and unlike Furc, he flatly contradicted himself.

MoI, you are looking for scum intent, and that is fundamentally good on some levels, but not all. You have to decide on an important fact: Do scum ever show town intent? That is to say, day 1, would scum have town intent? Day 2? Day 3? Because I think not, and I think that FC doesn't have town intent, so we can then say that he is likely scum today. Some days people seem to have town intent, but later in the game you realize what they've really been doing this whole time and solve the puzzle.

Bunnylover and whisper are kind of acting like what experiences I have with them, which in and of itself is not enough to earn my vote. I'm making frowny faces at their lurking, but I don't see you supporting a Bunny or Whisper lynch either.

Show me games where Whisper has lurked hard please.

Yeah, I think nopoint is scum. His entire wall are lies. And I get the distinct feeling he wants to have really long clashing wall battle just to bog down everything.

All lies? I read it and found his logic sound, which left you seeming suspicious.

I'm not parroting; I've already felt this

Why do you feel the need to preemptively defend your post?

MoI, make a comprehensive case on Stinger, the reason is to show how and why you are committed to this wagon as much as you are.

[Junpei]

Oh, good point... quick, let me call everyone scum real quick, then if anyone makes a case on me, it is just OMGUS!

That was sarcasm, in case you try to twist that.

[Junpei]

Wait; you think I'm worried about YOU calling me scum? Haha.

Anyway, I've hardly attacked you at all, and I haven't really made a case on you either, you've just been doing almost nothing productive.

[Junpei]

Analysis would be nice on what is currently going on.

For instance, your opinion on NPIAU's countercase to ML?

[Junpei]

Uh, you just talked about how he quoted Ghostlin, but not about the rebuttal itself. It is one liners, but it is beautiful logic in my opinion, and holds that ML is suspicious.

[Junpei]

I find Stringer to be scum and have no real read on nopoint, I liked his logic from a page ago a lot, so I suppose I have a leaning town read on him.

[Junpei]

Oh cool you're here... make a nopoint case. It will go right above the fireplace with MoI's stinger case.

[Junpei]

>a few of my points

I want the whole thing.

[Junpei]

To understand your thought process, to see what I may have missed. To see why you are so confident that nopoint is scum.

[Junpei]

Because I want evidence that you actually have good reasons for him being scum, and are not just riding his name as the day closes out to pretend to scumhunt. I don't believe that you actually have much on him at all.

[Junpei]

Oh, you are asking me to give details of my town reads?

I am informed, now tell me why nopoint is scum. You're like the kid who walks in when two adults are having a calm discussion on philosophy, and you come in quoting Zeno and acting like that is all that there is, Zeno. But there is also Aristotle, and Thales. You're ignorant.

If you really think nopoint is scum, read his iso, make a scum case, and then we can all look at it and judge it. That's what I did with fourseen, and you will notice that he faded into the background. Nopoint wagon is awful.

[Junpei]

I vote for Fourseen.

[Junpei]

Yeah MAgister Ludi is scum, he has no scum read on nopoint. He's just riding the day 1 confusion.

[Junpei]

Just read nopoint again, I don't understand why he's so scummy, DBG please explain.

[Junpei]

disagree completely

No reason to kill nopoint as there is no real case against him. Fourseen on the other hand is the kind of player you vig, and his most recent post is basically just sweeping in voting on the top two BWs, he's doing no real scumhunting.

[Junpei]

No, we shoot Fourseen who has been completely useless and extremely scummy, and lynch Stinger.

[Junpei]

Shoot Fourseen please. Then we can get rid of someone who will eventually be lynched anyway.

[Junpei]

I think we should shoot Fourseen, then the VC will be reset, then we can run up someone like Magister Ludi.

also isn't hider a role that targets someone and if they're mafia the hider dies?

[Junpei]

What?

For the record, implying that evolve doesn't mean the slow change is hilarious. My 'policy lynch' is actually founded in a case which I have posted and no one can refute past "he's super noob". If I were coasting on one vote (crappy is scum rhetoric hurrhurr) then you wouldn't be able to find much in my iso apart from things directly pertaining to my vote, and me going "lynch fourseen" with no content attached. I've been scumhunting all day.

Where did that redcoyote fos come from? Seems to have come out of... no where. Are you scum, springlullaby? You just committed one of your scum tells in the same post you explain it.

summarizing my scumreads to that is ridiculous, and I'll show you why:

"springlullaby's scum reads are 4 derps 1 lolwat obv town and 1 obvious lynch"

See how I just made 5 of your 6 (i dont know how many fos's you have, but wherein you have 6...) scum reads look like bad reads? That's what you did, and this is ridiculous.

[Junpei]

This is why I hate meta, you just post it and go "HES LIKE THIS" and people go "oh.. wow". How about you read the dead QT too, stop trying to grasp at arbitrary similarities between these two games and using it to call me scum.

My irrefutable case is here

My suspicions come from reading the game as well.

pedit: Ethereal, do you realize how many people in this game suspect people and don't have a case posted on them? Everyone voting nopoint, to name a few. And read the link in this post for a case by me.

[Junpei]

What about everyone voting nopoint. Anyway, I do have suspicion of Stinger. Here are some links to show how I did.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p3543170
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 8#p3543048
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p3542822

[Junpei]

This is not my favorite candidate to be lynched today, but I think he's the best, most reasonable choice at the momen

t. I don't think the claim should make much of a difference. It's unfortunate he claimed to have an ability, but it would be worse to hastily force another candidate to claim and potentially reveal the location of an even better ability to the scum

We have two lynches where the VC is clear. None of this "well... i'll settle..." business. Who is your favorite person to die?

[Junpei]

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Hider

Is this what we are going bananas over keeping? This role is pretty bad, in my opinion, unless we direct it, which is still bad. If he's scum he'll just say he visited a townie or a scum pal (pure wifom) and thats why he lived, if he's town then he has a chance of death wherein we learn nothing, and a chance of life wherein we have to lynch him to get 1 clear for not likely a long period of time.

This role doesn't seem like something we should stall a wagon over.

[Junpei]

How does it confirm town and catch scum?

Let me just use my psychic powers to figure out where Stringer visited when he died... oh wait.

Also if we direct it, scum could potentially mess with the results, or simply kill the target.

[Junpei]

So...

1) Hider IF town confirms a town

2) You are waffling on your scum read of warrior

3) You have a weak scumread on NPIAU.

Do you have any opinions that are definite? Who should be shot? Who should be lynched?

[Junpei]

So basically you're saying:

"yes i'm coasting and being noncommittable, but that's just what I always do day 1"

That's not okay, get better at the game, you can't just fall back on "well, I'm bad". You can't draw the noob card when your join date is 2010 and you have played many mafia games, you should have strong opinions on SOME things.

[Junpei]

I think it was right to claim dayvig this late. If Kdub is town, it catches scum way off guard.

I don't understand nopoints' claim, could someone clarify it for me?

Fourseen has to die this gameday.

[Junpei]

RedCoyote: The fact that there was 6 scum in last game and no one has mentioned that fact until now is very interesting. I wonder how Furc knew about it.'

Chkflip: It's an experiment, just to see if I get one of those chances to use it to catch scum. Also you are hallucinating, I don't like RVS, and I never have. Furthermore, if a townie passion is what makes someone town, then you should be able to see if someone has it, otherwise you can't make reads based off of it. Therefore my request was not stupid.

[Junpei]

Also, how did you know about kdub's claim by page 8?

[Junpei]

MoI: What is the Zang tell? Is committing the Zang tell enough to lynch Ghostin to you?

All the flak against a Fourseen lynch is "he's too stupid to be scum", or "wheres scum intent!?". Here's question for you: If every post I make is pure utter nonsense, and shows a clear lack of complex thought or logic, does that make me town? I believe in innocent until proven guilty, that is golden; but mafia is different, in mafia sometimes you have to lynch the person who shows no signs of guilt, but no signs of innocence. That said, Fourseen has shown some guilt, but you keep ignoring that fact.

Furcolow saying "I thought someone else had said it somewhere..." and then never responding to where he knew of it, is suspicious. I suspect that Furcolow could be on a 6man scum team. Yes he was in the last x01, but I don't think that was what he was thinking of when he said that.

Hider is not as strong as you're implying, are we thinking of the same role? It doesn't confirm town well, and it doesn't confirm scum because we have to specifically direct it, which is dangerous.

Furcolow going "it's not smart to outguess the mod" and then assume 6 scum earlier on is interesting as well as his ability claim which didn't need to happen whatsoever.

[Junpei]

Let me quickly explain hider. It is powerful for a few reasons.

It can hide behind town and confirm town, while making it so that if the hider is directly shot, he doesn't die. A hider can come out on day three or four with two or three innocents (because hiders die if hiding behind scum, so all successful hides are behind town).

A solid block of three or so confirmed town is scary for any scum team. Finding innocents as a regular cop is just as powerful as a guilty.

It can find scum. If it dies, scum! Well you might ask, how would we know where he hid??

Either explicitly told 'i am hiding behind X. If I die, X is scum'.

Hiders usually resolve before all other actions in NAR,

so that is a confirmed guilty there. If town can trade off 1v1's all day, we will win handily.

Implicitly.

Breadcrumb who you are hiding behind

. Make it only obvious to people after you die and flip hider, because then they will go back to look. A person's name out of place. A weird sentence. It is not that hard.

IT is quite a powerful role.

I'll go 1, 2, 3 that address the bold going north to south.

1) But the hider is different every night, so it's like 3 innocent children, of which there could be 1 or more scum.
2) Usually? What NAR was used last game? Where is the most common NAR?
3) I've seen two types of breadcrumbs. The first is the type I immediately notice, and I think to myself "scum probably saw this too... ugh", and the second is the type I never notice until the person who crumbed pointed it out. So I don't quite see the power in breadcrumbing for after death.

[Junpei]

Lol? The idea that you tried to "hide" MoI's post by spamming the page is ridiculous, not sure why you wasted two more posts and a lot of space like that. You didn't even properly quote it.

You think that you have a disguised-virus ability that only tells some holders? If that's the case then we'll hear about it when that person actually gets the role. If you're telling the truth, then the only reason to claim is to protect yourself later on when you have to claim your ability.

[Junpei]

Oh, and Furcolow, who in this game said that there were 6 scum? You said someone in this game mentioned it. Who was it?

[Junpei]

So Sinestro, I am scummy because of your meta and some other guys' meta? And I'm leaning scum but I need to be shot/lynched? Wait a second... you don't have any scum reads stronger than leaning? Wait. I'm your only scum read other than null-scum whisper who has like two posts.

You can do that better than that, surely.

>"though we're in disagreement on springlullaby."

Is hydra dissonance going to be a theme here? I hate hydras...

[Junpei]

Wow Ghostlin.. I didn't realize you thought so highly of me... being 40% wrong is indicative that I'm not scumhunting up to my standards? I'm... honored, to say the least. Although, it's more like 40% of my scum reads are your town reads, unless you know that they're town, I don't see how this translates to me intentionally pushing suspicion onto town, and I don't see how suspecting town is scummy inherently unless you consider me as great as you seem to. Finally, the fact that I'm bellowing to kill Fourseen shows that I'm not ignoring lurkers.

I agree, too dumb for scum is not an excuse, I'm assuming then that you support "Lynch Fourseen: 20-11+(4) to lynch"? Or alternatively, for those with less income, "Disregard those saying don't shoot Fourseen, acquire town points".

[Junpei]

Ah but you haven't clearly articulated your desire to have Fourseen shot today, but now you have. In fact you have explicitly mentioned Fourseen being scummy since your second post (first content post), and you implied him being reasonably scummy in this post.

[Junpei]

Alright, give me links to show me the difference between scum who act similar to fourseen, and town that do.

As for hider, now that you've explained it I see your point. I did read your Ghostlin case, and I determined that I did not know what the Zang tell was. I'm not going to say "Oh, town v town, ah yes scum!", because I'm not a sheep like the idiots you are claiming to be town, explain to me the SCUM MOTIVATION behind going "X conversation is town v town to me".

[Junpei]

Also, how did you know about kdub's claim by page 8?

Is this some retarded "scum slip" you're trying to catch me in? Clearly I've been trying to keep up with current pages, I'm just the type that prefers to go back and go over everything I've missed. This seems like a silly ass post, sir.

IGMEOY

~

Uhm, what? Yes, I can see it now, allow me to replay the conversation that may have occured with your premonition:

Junpei >How did you know about kdub's claim by page 8?
chkflip >I have been keeping up with recent pages
Junpei >Ah.. ahah! I knew it, you are scum!

Okay, I couldn't come up with anything for the third line. Honestly the way you are getting over-defensive about a harmless question is a bit ridiculous. Yes I could infer that you were keeping up with recent pages, but then why bother making a point of going "OKAY, NOW I'M ON PAGE 5 AND HERE IS WHAT I SEE..." if you have already seen page 20? I don't like your catchup method anyway, I'd rather you just read the thread and post a cumulative post with reads and analysis than that.

[Junpei]

Longer than 5+ days? Also caring more about how you look than effectively scumhunting and portraying the results in a neat manner is a survivalist tactic.

[Junpei]

Your playstyle is being survivalist and doing things that make no logical sense(scumhunting page by page, but reading later pages as well)?

[Junpei]

You'd rather NL than vote Stringer...? I suppose I need to ISO him and do an analysis to post then.

vote furclow

I think that RC might be more scummy (I need to look at more people to be honest) but Furclow claimed for NO REASON other than to make his claim not look bad later on. That, MoI, is what we call scum motivation.

[Junpei]

rolefishing
Doesn't vote because the warrior wagon has 6 votes already and fears a quicklynch

Now, the Fourseen wagon is at its' peak, with 8 votes, Stringer posts without unvoting from Fourseen, who is even closer to a quicklynch than Warrior, except for that Fourseen garnered votes FASTER than Warrior.

We don't hear from him for 5 days, and by that time, the Fourseen wagon had stalled and other suspects were becoming more relevant.
So he's back and finds fourseen suspicious but thinks his wagon is going to die because it is an early day 1 wagon. Funny thing about this is that the WARRIOR wagon was earlier day 1, and he was afraid it would be a quicklynch! He also finds wazzatron suspicious for some reasoning he never actually said.

Also, when talks of vigging came about, he faded away, and has done nothing but claim his ability. This is guy is who I'm campaigning for tomorrow if we're both around. No one give him an ability of importance. Also I just remembered that he claimed which is why he's on that part of the list, but here's a case for everyone I suppose. I need to look at RC again too.

pedit: then why does anyone play with furc? because they get stuck with him?

[Junpei]

SO MANY PEOPLE ARE CLAIMING TODAY.

We would have been better off talking for 20 pages and then silently voting.

vote ghostlin

Untrackable via plan, and Furc/Fourseen don't seem to be dying today...

[Junpei]

DGB, he basically claimed VT. How can we not lynch that? If you'll vote Fourseen that'd be fantastic, yet you along with most of town won't. Before Drunken Pipers' vote, it really seemed like everyone was just shifting into the ghostlin wagon, but even now I still feel that way.

Also ghostlin if you had taken out "furc' in the second line it would have flowed. Also if you made reasoning = reason.

[Junpei]

In hindsight, it was a pretty poor vote, but I am sticking with it because the core of my reason is true: we have too many people claiming today. It is getting out of hand, we need to lynch and go action/cycle and get the plan in motion. Also, I do give credit to the Ghostlin case that MoI posted.

[Junpei]

Ghostlin, when there is indeed a case against you, anyone voting you certainly agrees with it. To say that it is suspicious to agree with a case, to see logic in a post, is hilarious.

DGB, we lynch scum, I think Ghostlin is scummy, I think Fourseen is more scummy, Furcolow is also up there somewhere, but I'm thinking that there is another reason for his claim. Scum wouldn't have to worry about that claim so much because if they pass it to town, then they are linked in the ability. It is still scummy because I'm not sure Furcolow is smart enough to think into this setup much at all, but I want to keep that ability in the game if it exists, for now.

[Junpei]

What if there is nothing more to contribute?

Allow me to explain to you why your logic is flawed.

There may only be a finite list of reasons to vote someone.
There may be a finite count of votes.

The two numbers do not correspond to each other always. Once the first grows to a point, it no longer must grow for the latter to grow. As such, if the subject is very covered, then it is not logical to require more explanation to accompany a vote. To ask me to dig into your ISO for one more reason, which does not need to be stated before I vote you is ridiculous.

No, I have a reason behind my vote, and if you want me to regurgitate the previous points made I against I won't, but that is mostly what I can do in regards to why you are scummy. Although, this post is pointing out your flawed logic, so does this count?

[Junpei]

also let me sit still,
while someone explains to me the reason behind that vig kill?

(blech)

There's only one person to ask, friend.

What was the purpose of this post? Please stop fluffing, and post more content. What is your opinion of the daykill?

[Junpei]

Mod wrote:Welcome, MS1775305, [Callsign Playername.]. You've realized what they are doing. The rest of the test group doesn't understand, but you are more insightful than all of them. It makes sense, you are The Asxtori. They don't deserve to make it out of here alive, they fell for the lies too easily, they're just a detriment to society. Its up to you to purge this group, then expose this "experiment" for its true darkness. They made the wrong choice letting you in on this one.

Ability Cycling: You are not necessarily a part of the ability cycle. You will receive an Ability Message at the start of each Day Phase, and will be able to select who to pass the abilities to, but you will not be able to use any of the abilities within your designated Ability Message.

Factional Ability: You have the ability to terminate one person from the simulation each Night. Failure to submit the kill by the end of the Night will be considered a No Kill. Your removal method is: purged.

Ability Hoarder: Any abilities that you remove from the game through either killing a player with your factional ability or by being the hammer on their lynch become a permanent part of your ability list. You may use one of the abilities available to you each Night, in conjunction with your factional kill.

Secrecy Pays: You will survive the first attempt made on your life during a Night Phase.

The Asxtori Win Condition: You win if only you are alive (or if nothing can prevent the same).
[Standard Serial Killer Win Condition.]

Game Topic is here: Cyclic Experimentation Set x01.

Reply by PM to confirm you understand your role and win condition.



Besides its factional kill, the Serial Killer had a special ability known as Ability Hoarder. Upon hammering or killing a player with the factional kill, they would receive any ability the dying player had, and could select one of the available collected abilities to use in conjunction with their kill. This was why DGB was extremely hammerhappy this game. Now, DrippingGoofball discovered an interaction I had not considered, and very nearly won her the game. After purging q21, she received the Treestump as an option. Had she been left alive till Night 5, she could have then selected the Treestump as a secondary ability, making her effectively unlynchable and unkillable, and with only one Daevori alive, she would have at that point won the game. So lynching DGB the day you did was the best (and truthfully the only option) you had that day. If you review Day 5 with this situation in mind you can see that DGB's desire to live only one more day became quite apparent, and something that I reflected in the lynch flavor of that day.

Please explain the correlation between Furcolow's claim and yours, I'm not sure I see it.

pedit:I'm thinking that we have a "no one give any abilities of any worth to furcolow or FC" and then we kill them tomorrow. Yes I know lining up lynches is bad, but this is what I think is a good idea.

[Junpei]

So then why claim it?

[Junpei]

He didn't, he claimed a very unusual ability, and DBG is saying that she "feels it is third party based on last game". Upon inquiry we find that the reason it is a third party role to her is that it is unlike all other claimed abilities.

[Junpei]

The point in Ghostlin claiming that he didn't have a power, which would mean that he is claiming that he is VT without straight out coming and saying he was VT seemed like he was trying to make it look like it wasn't going to be one of those "oh he is VT so that is a safe lynch vote" why would You disguise it with the fancy wording of you didn't come into the game with a power instead of saying you are a VT? It could be possible that he has other conditions that grants him powers as he progressees like a survivor like trait this is where I am drawing my suspicion.

There's a glitch in your thinking here. I think I'll just come out and say it. Why would you lynch me as a Survivor over someone that would hurt your wincon, such as a SK or a Mafia member?

So you are saying you aren't VT? MOAR VOTES on Ghostlin....

Furclow has a useful cylce role that can be useful to town tonight, so we let him cycle it then kill him tmmrw.

Wow, you and MoI are just all over the misreps today. Let me restate this slower for you. I'm asking you if you honestly believe I'm some kind of survivor, why would you lynch me over a scum read? It makes no sense to lynch someone that doesn't hurt your wincon if I'm a survivor. Your case against me being a survivor is horrific, like cutting your own arm off to spite your face unless you ARE scum.

This is fine logic by Ghostlin, and what does Fourseen say?

There is obviously something your not telling us about your role ghostlin if you keep on saying that you could be a survivor..... This aspect of your posts is very alarming.

He COMPLETELY dodges the clear issue with his line of thinking and twists it onto Ghostlin. Fourseen. Needs. Rope. If not today, tomorrow. Sorry MoI, but you can't protect Fourseen if I'm alive tomorrow.

[Junpei]

Peregrine, explain your ML scumread in more detail again. I want this done today so you don't have the night to 'forget'/change your mind/concoct something.

[Junpei]

Ugh, why did you kill whisper... Whisper is a great scumhunter I think if you had just gave her time. You're so... ugh. Why not shoot Fourseen whom we can safely say no one gave an ability to of importance? Why shoot whisper? I thought that you were faking a shot when I first read it.

MoI I dislike the free pass you're giving Fourseen, but I'm going to do some more analysis before I comment on what has been said today. But for now, I can easily say

vote fourseencircumstance

Oh,

I did pass an ability

[Junpei]

Fourseen that post is so bad. Go read my ISO, because I've made a case against you already, and you ignored it.

RedCoyote, something as wifomy as a quickshot is enough to give you a solid town read?

[Junpei]

Alright, FC is hiding behind VI, so lets get another scum: Implosion

1) Implosions' plan is very formal and very bad. Needless to say his ability claim idea is subpar to the original plan that was used on x01. Now, this post gives me the impression that we are dealing with an analytical and intelligent player. But, his later posts do not give me those vibes. This worries me because I feel like he could not be doing as well as he normally would be. I think that as scum, a strong town player may start off well (pregame, it is easy to set yourself up to look like town), but when you're in the thick of things, you have to adjust your whole mindset, and I don't think Implosion is doing that well.

2) By his 6th post, he has already completely dropped his plan, and is now very much advocating for MoI's plan. This is the first time since post 0 he has even mentioned the plan, and has posted nothing but IIoA since. In fact, his ISO is essentially summarized in this: IIoA, declarations, and poor reads. I don't mean I disagree with his reads... but lets look at some examples:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p3555737
For the first time he is asked to elaborate on his reads. His warrior read is now being waffled on. His ML read is (and he makes this quite clear) PURE gut.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p3555741
As an extension to the last post, he wasn't calling nopoint scummy, rather he'd simply support a wagon on him.

No other reads are explained. Implosion just comes out of the blue with 'reads' and can't be bothered to actually actively scumhunt, rather decides to IIoA. Oh, there's the 'fourseen case', but that's just a regurgitation of what was already said.

vote implosion

[Junpei]

RedCoyote, something as wifomy as a quickshot is enough to give you a solid town read?

Something as WIFOMy as the way a player replaced out was enough for a town read from me... it must be catching.

That doesn't make it right. Are you always this bad, or are you just trying to agitate me? Also your MoI vote is awful, and not just because I don't agree with it; although if our positions were swapped, I'm sure you would vote me over it.

RC - Eh, Toog in ISO doesn't look as hot as I'd like it for him to up and BOOM shoot somebody without giving any sort of reason. Worse yet he joked about it? Hurr hurr not so much. I'm glad a legitimate Fourseen wagon might be building today and I'll definitely be voting him later in the day but I'd like to see more content from Toog for now.

This isn't a stance. This is you generically describing some experience you had without giving the bottom line. So, what's the verdict? Was the shot scummy or not? Is Toog scummy or not? You're voting him so I can only assume you feel the shot was that bad, but this post doesn't make it look like you are so upset with it.

I was theorizing that SlySly was playing scum trying to push on an easy mislynch for Whispersilk, which made me sort of think Whisper was town. Seeing her shot within the first few posts was agitating, yeah.

So you were using associative alignment tells on two players whose alignments you didn't know?

[Junpei]

Oh, you're here. Well since you're sitting around bored with nothing to do but +1 my post, here's a question, RedCoyote:

In this post, you express toog as a scum read and never mention him until you declare him as a stable town read for something that is undoubtedly 100% wifom. Do you confirm with my analysis?

[Junpei]

Drink it or don't.

My thirst does not need to be quenched by poison; thanks for the offer though.

Who are your scum reads other than FC? What degree are they? Why? I ask because you haven't been articulate in this category and your reads seem to be subject to 180 based on the smallest of details.

[Junpei]

That doesn't make it right. Are you always this bad, or are you just trying to agitate me? Also your MoI vote is awful, and not just because I don't agree with it; although if our positions were swapped, I'm sure you would vote me over it.

Difference of opinion. Yes,

meta is never a good practice, nor should it be an absolute for people to confirm or condemn

, but I hardly worried about your opinion on DGB. At no time did I try and argue that your opinion on whether DGB is scum or not was invalid.

I stated my metathought on DGB, and I told myself that under no circumstances would I ever be voting for DGB.

I "might" be trying to agitate you, yes. I have been called a troll before.

If someone comes to the conclusion that my actions are not possible for scum, and call me town of it, then that is his prerogative as well. It's not like Coyote is defending me. He is simply stating he has a town read on me.

Are you saying that if you had gut shot first post of the day and hit town, I would be all over you

? I think not. I can't say I would or wouldn't with absolution, but I wouldn't condemn you if you shot willy nilly. KDub asked for town's permission before shooting and hit town. I think that looks worse in my opinion since he would be absolving himself of guilt by shooting the person that people were supporting a shot on. However, I am not building a case on KDub for it simply because he hit town. His action can be town or scum.

As I have been saying since Day 1, MoI's posts appear to have a hidden agenda laced in them, and his posts can oft-times be seen as almost hypocritical. I had scum MoI pegged early in Metropolis, but he wasn't playing up to his standard par that game, so he was easy to catch. I have seen MoI third party as well. In both cases, his game was very calculated, and his posts were very manipulative. I'm getting the same vibe here that I got in those two games.

Bold would appear to be a contradiction.
The reason you said the underlined is?
Italicized is wrong. I was comparing how you are voting MoI essentially for having a scum read on Ghostin who you find town (difference in opinion), and how you would vote me for finding MoI scum if you found him town (difference in opinion).

That which I've put in the area needs proof. If you want to convince anyone of this, you have to show specific posts that show this.

[Junpei]

What about Sinestro makes him lurkerscum as opposed to lurkertown?

Ghostlin, as much as I would love to vote someone everytime that they do something stupid, I would spend too much time voting and not enough time scumhunting. Did you /see/ my Implosion post? Or perhaps my Fourseen post? You also seemed to have misinterpreted my "if your positions are reversed you'd be voting me" bit.

Alright, FC is hiding behind VI, so lets get another scum: Implosion

Why are you abandoning the FC wagon at this point? His inaqueate defense should have you voting him, not shifting gears to another player.

1) I won't get support on it

2) MoI has convinced me to wait on this lynch. FC can be killed eventually anyway, preferably with a VIG shot or a lynch if not. The VCA is fair enough, but not that much of a tribute to FC's town argument, but from what I've seen of the difference between VI-scum and VI-town, I cannot say that FC perfectly aligns with either, including the scum. And Implosions' play is absolutely awful. Besides, no one will join me other than a couple people in voting Fourseen.

[Junpei]

Ghostlin, I'll read logic, and MoI's VCA will convince others, and it is good enough considering that I have just caught scum in Implosion. I do suggest you switch your vote to him. Ghostlin, I'm no fool, and I can understand what others will do, and somehow FC is doing just enough not to get lynched, and if a wagon starts on Fourseen that looks promising; perhaps then I join it, but I'll pursue other avenues for now. I'm not going to tunnelvision one person today. My earlier proclamation was rash.

[Junpei]

Implosion: NO

You do not "see where this goes", I want you to tell me who scum IS. I want you to tell me who you have solid scum reads on, no more of this "I'll feel out the waters" foolishness.

[Junpei]

MoI, I will say now that you catching Stringer means almost nothing to me as far as your ability to catch scum go. Andrew94 is bad at mafia, and he got nominated to win an award for his ability to catch scum. He's awful; I honestly don't know what they were thinking, but he got lucky, and bottom line is that just because you caught one guy doesn't mean I'm about to trust you to catch the rest.

But yes, the DGB kill analysis implosion is using is awful. Honestly for all we know it wasn't even scum that killed her; or if it was then perhaps it was done solely to throw us off the mark. There are many possibilities.

[Junpei]

Implosion, not having reads is not okay. I understand you have midterms, but the idea that 1200 posts in, all you can say is "meh, I'll see where this goes" as your primary vote is ridiculous. Also it doesn't matter if you claim not to have referenced any other posts on Fourseen, the fact remains that you hardly brought a new case to the table.

[Junpei]

MoI: Do you believe that people should accept what you say because you've been right, and to some degree follow you based off of that?

Implosion, I'm not a lawyer and I'm not in law school, so how about I just lynch you?

also that 7for7 link is outrageous. They basically just took something and completely relabeled it and gave it a silly name. It's a fallacy yes, but it's not called '7for7'.. but whatever that's not important I suppose.

[Junpei]

What does it mean to be an architect of a wagon, just so that I'm on the same page?

[Junpei]

EBWOP: I concede your point that DGB never called you scum, however she was one of the few town members last night to call you on your crap.

Please direct me to what 'crap' she called me on. If it's my scum read on her - I don't deny it was wrong.

I tend to get scum reads on Town players who push on players I find Town

and actively distance from dead players they called scum before the Mod-flips.

MoI, is this the use of associative alignment tells on two players who have not flipped that I'm reading? No this is not a rhetorical question.

[Junpei]

You said that you get scum reads on town players who push on (ergo find scummy) players who you find town. "and actively distance from dead players they called scum before the Mod-flips." is a separate point, I am addressing the first part of the sentence, which is most certainly different and most certainly associative tells on two players who haven't flipped based on alignments.

Also you forgot

What does it mean to be an architect of a wagon, just so that I'm on the same page?

MoI: Do you believe that people should accept what you say because you've been right, and to some degree follow you based off of that?

pedit: MoI, another question: did you misrepresent Implosion in the second section he quotes of post 1232?
pedit2: You aren't running away from me, things don't get swept under the rug when I am holding onto them. It is late so bed is an applicable excuse, but it is early in the week, so you should be answering me soon enough.

[Junpei]

andy has appeared to have disappeared

, i'll catch up within the hour and reply to everything !

Wazzatron is scum,

I was talking to andy about it yesterday

; nothing about his posts seem town motivated, at all. There's something incredibly off, and I can't quite put my finger on it. I really hope its not a predefined thought on him thats making everythinglook scummy to me, but damn that iso is pretty bad, magna what are your thoughts on him?

Of all the strange lies...

[Junpei]

Just reading your day 2 posts, I get the feeling you're out of scumhunting posts to make.

Thoughts on Implosion?

[Junpei]

It's as much wifom as "MoI killed DGB to protect himself". If you don't have faith in yourself to catch scum, whoever that may be, then you need to rethink your strategy; or perhaps you're scum. Also your day 2 scumhunting can be summarized as poor reasoning on MoI and a rash vote on me. Who else is scum and why? Also how is "post with no content" wifom?

[Junpei]

Considering his response is basically "yes I have no good reads", it is not at all adequate and he needs to hang.

[Junpei]

Considering his response is basically "yes I have no good reads", it is not at all adequate and he needs to hang.

Why do townies necessarily have to have good reads?

Because it shows they have been scumhunting. Why do townies have to scumhunt you ask? Because that's the best way to fulfill their wincon. Why do they have to fulfill their wincon you say? Because that's the damn game.

[Junpei]

SlySly, I'm fairly certain that your suspicion of me earlier in the day is irrelevant in regards to the analysis. Scum may have the background to support a push on someone inthread, but his point is that he believes players who did X or Y are more suspect, and you fit that frame. It is 100% irrelevant if you suspected me earlier IN REGARDS TO WHAT HE IS TRYING TO SHOW. There is no smear as far as I can see; just because you had justification to push on me, doesn't mean that we should not include it in a possible scum counterwagon.

[Junpei]

Well I'm looking at your ISO, and when the most voted on wagons were me and Stringer, you pushed on me quite hard. Well, as hard as you could, as you tried very hard to fabricate a scumslip.

pedit: yes, I agree that RedCoyote is scum.

[Junpei]

Good lord. Its not just about your ability, (which is useful), is the fact that passing abilities is pro-town, as it establishes connections. Do you really not think of any of this?

Lol...so you want me to pass an ability that ALLOWS THE NIGHT KILLER TO TAKE THE ABILITY OF HIS VICTIM.

OK, explain how it is a pro-town ability at all.

As for connections, who is going to ever admit they used it?

...You are very disappointing...

They WILL admit that they own the ability, and THAT establishes important connections for later in the game. Ugh... this really upsets me. I really hope you aren't town, because if this town were COMPETENT, then this game would be much more easy to win; but as Furcolow has shown us, the average IQ is NOT 100, or anything close to that.

[Junpei]

You clown, peregrine. I can't decide if we should policy lynch this (not a bad option considering you haven't been playing that strong really), or just keep you around because no scum would want to draw attention to themselves by being so stupid. I'll meditate on it.

This is an awful post by the way. Basically gives himself the go ahead to policy lynch PeregrineV later on, or to not credit it. Heavy waffling.

We shouldn't lynch Peregrine just based on this, we should develop reads independent of claims as with everyone else.

[Junpei]

Junpei, what about the fact that the scum team did pretty much the same thing last game?

Oh yes, the butler did it. Just because someone such that X did Y, doesn't mean that everything X does Y, and that nothing not X doesn't do Y. That's just poor logic is all, and has no bearing on this situation. It is plausible that Peregrine did that as town, as it is if Peregrine is scum.

[Junpei]

I'm not saying it's a sure thing, but do you really think it's negligible?

It is wifom, so in the context of "who do I think is scum", it is in a vacuum. Later on it may be a useful fact, but to vote over it? No, I wouldn't take that avenue at all.

[Junpei]

What do you think about Perg, Implosion and RedCoyote?

@projectmatt :What do you think about Perg, Implosion and RedCoyote?

[Junpei]

Why didn't you vote Wazzatron earlier?

[Junpei]

I honestly don't know HOW people do dumb things... it honestly amazes me sometimes the things people do.

Policy lynch PeregrineV for committing a specific anti-town actions. And for generally lurking.

Projectmatt is scum too. Like i've been saying. Defending his buddy warrior by calling us scum together is a rather infantile move.

Then why are you voting warriormode?

[Junpei]

Wazzatron is scum, I was talking to andy about it yesterday; nothing about his posts seem town motivated, at all. There's something incredibly off, and I can't quite put my finger on it. I really hope its not a predefined thought on him thats making everythinglook scummy to me, but damn that iso is pretty bad, magna what are your thoughts on him?

This read to me as a pretty solid scum read on wazza. Or are you playing to sheep MoI this whole game?

[Junpei]

Well, it looked like you were quite endorsing a Peregrine lynch (saying policy lynch X for...), and you haven't much been endorsing a warrior lynch. Seemed like your vote should have been on Peregrine in that post, yet it was on warrior.

[Junpei]

Well you ask for MoI's thoughts, and a little while after he gives them you decide to vote for wazza. I can only assume that you hold MoI's opinion in high esteem to where you'd delay your vote till you get his allmighty input. But it'd appear you have simply forgotten why you did not vote. I do seriously look before I accuse for the most part, and your "i forgot" is noted.

[Junpei]

Ghostlin is right, that is what I'm talking about. And Sinestro, the fact that you don't like MoI at all throws more suspicion onto the fact that you asked for his opinion before voting.

[Junpei]

You're ignoring my whole point. Ugh.

Here is the line of what happened

1) you felt wazza was very scum
1-i) you asked MoI for his opinion on wazza
1-ii) you did not vote wazza

insert 15 hours or so

2) MoI says wazza is a bit scummy

insert 8 hours

3) you vote wazza

I find it hard to believe there was no correlation. You had no posts between 2 and 3.

[Junpei]

EC re-votes for Stringer and raised Stringer scum above Junpei and NoPoint (who we know is Town) and also above the fading Fourseen wagon.

If he was a likely Stringer partner there is little reason for him to help push his partner.

He could have found a reason to vote for either Junpei or NoPoint. So yes, his play in time with the wagons is pretty strong evidence they aren’t partners.

Fourseen votes for Stringer and again helps keep Stinger as the top wagon. Again ..

no reason for Stringer partner to make that move.

I just went ahead and put the WIFOM in bold tags for you so that you can not try to take this tells for more than they're worth down the road.

[Junpei]

I've seen so many just completely foolish things happen on this site that I've become desensitized to it emotionally. Implosion and FC are very scummy anyway; so PV can wait for when we get better reads on him. If he tries to lurk/coast, we'll lynch him. Or at least, I'll vote for him.

Also, MoI, I read the kdowns games, and FC doesn't perfectly fit the VI bill, so I fail to see your strong opinion that he is town.

[Junpei]

At this point Junpei I really don’t care. You aren’t going to change your opinion. But it’s clear to me you are looking for any reason to get back on what I see as a very bad lynch. If you are expecting Fourseen to meet some perfect template of a VI you are fooling yourself. Day 1 should pretty clearly say he’s Town, IMO. The wagon on him developed at a rate you just don’t see on scum. Look how long it took me to rally enough support to make Stringer a viable candidate and the resistance there was. Now look at he relative ease at which Fourseen reached double digits.

Appeal to probability?
Single scope comparisons?

Come now, you don't expect that to hold any ground with me, or anyone else who is reading closely, do you? I'm honestly surprised that you are using that as an argument as to why someone is quite clearly town.

[Junpei]

"The wagon on him developed at a rate you just don’t see on scum."

Appeal to probability right here. To clarify, a translated version is provided below:

"It is so unlikely that a wagon would develop at the rate it did on scum, that the person who was wagoned, FourseenCircumstance, could not be scum".

If someone shows no intent, how are they ever to be lynched? Just because Furc flipped town means nothing. They are two different cases. There is no such thing as an "inherent derp", rather there is such a thing as "such awful play that you wonder if the subject is conscious". If I can't kill people for awful play, then I can't kill scum.

[Junpei]

It's all about thought processes MoI, if you can't understand that I can't help you. Also, why are you dropping Ghostlin?

vote ghostlin

He needs more pressure.

[Junpei]

I was seeing if Fourseen would be lynched today, then I caught Implosion. There is other stuff between that, but those are the highlights. You don't want to lynch Ghostlin?

I think that RedCoyote is scum, but, you don't want to lynch Ghostlin? I think Ghostlin is quite scummy as well, and considering that we have the highest post counts and your wonderful (unless you're going to verbally assault your own case as well) case, it shouldn't be too hard rallying votes when the highest wagon after you change your vote has just 4 in 10 days.

Implosion isn't dying, I'd rather kill Ghostlin to RedCoyote. I'm positive you feel the same.

[Junpei]

What exactly do you want me to respond to? Could you point out some instances where you feel I argued over things in a counterproductive manner?

[Junpei]

This is how i play the game, you guys scream policy lynch right away, and that is only going put the town down a person.

I've hit every single one of your lame ass policy lynch reasoning for voting me... get over yourself.

I stand by my reasons on a red coyote lynch

but also support the policy lynch on PV

if it got to the point that we were seriously thinking of going through with policy lynch. You just don't cycle town powers to the void.

And you guys refuse to lynch this guy?

[Junpei]

That has nothing to do with it. The point is you've been talking about what a bad idea policy lynching is, and you turn around and say you support one.

[Junpei]

@mod, what happens in all worlds where there is an ability such that it takes the ability of a player who died on the same night which they are targeted and there is an ability such that all abilities that target it are destroyed and the former ability targets the latter ability wherein the holder of the latter ability dies the same night which he is targeted by the former

How about that?

[Junpei]

@mod one more question: I looked at x01, x02 sign ups, and the OP, and cannot remember if you announce abilities which go to the inactivity zone or abilities which go to the void. I know you don't announce both, but which one is it that you do announce?

[Junpei]

Sorry, I just saw Peregrines question. Maybe add it to the OP?

Also I see fourseen viewing the forum.

[Junpei]

When you read, tell me who do you think was the driving force behind the Stringer wagon.

[Junpei]

Oops, sorry for the fluff post, but the post just previous this is directed at "I am innocent".

[Junpei]

Ah, I appeared to have used exceptionally poor grammar there, projectmatt. Specifically my use of pronouns, you'll have to forgive me.

Tell me, why are you opposed to a Ghostlin lynch?

[Junpei]

Post 17 was because even though I liked his plan a lot, I did since I read it in x01, I was still thinking. Read on and you see I become a big fan of it vocally and I believe I advocate for it. Also, I'm sure you can gather from the signup thread that I looked through x01 at least a little, so your "learned about the plan in scum-chat" is flawed.

Post 24..

1) I don't believe that anti-town abilities are in transit because all abilities should be able to help town. It makes very little sense for there to be an anti-town transitive ability. The bomb from x01 to my understanding was only a big deal because of the way people reacted, and treestump is NOT inherently bad. Peregrines' ability (you'll read about it later) is NOT inherently bad. Due to the ability destroyer ability, I am very confident that scum have abilities which are constant for them. It makes no sense for town to have the ability if there are not. But then, I was only using the role PM as a way to say that if there are antitown abilities in this game, they aren't in transit.

2) The poison kill is a disadvantage to scum but only slightly, and scum got destroyed by the plan in x01 I believe. The mod most certainly will have taken measures to further disrupt the plan. What I hadn't considered then (which I now realize appears to be truth) is announce-in-thread abilities like kdubs dayvig ability. X-shot abilities and Furc's delayed ability also could hurt the plan. Also, there appear to be an ability destroyer in this game which you will read about later. So given the new information, I think it is less likely that there is a way for the mod to promote the sacrifice of the poison kill, as there are so many pieces in play to hurt the plan already.

[Junpei]

You think that it is more likely that Stringer was trying to prevent a lynch on Toog at page 5 than it is that Stringer was rolefishing?

[Junpei]

A guilty report on Sinestro? Why didn't you out this earlier?

vote sinestro

[Junpei]

Toogeloo... do you understand the definition of a guilty report?

Oh wait; could warrior be scum who passed an ability to another scumpal, and is trying to bring a mislynch down with him? Honestly, even if that were true, I'd still lynch Sinestro because 1 for 1 is a good deal, and I don't see how we can differentiate between warrior who passed to scumpal and warrior who has a guilty report. We should assume the latter.

Also yeah, at least scum is in those posts, I mean, other than me we got Fourseen and Ghostlin; if they are both town I'd be very surprised. But, I think that town would also vote the guilty, and that to assume that at some arbitrary number X of votes on the wagon, there are scum within X, is ridiculous.

[Junpei]

I have no clue why he wouldn't do that, which is why I asked. But if not everyone has had a chance to even react to this guilty, how can you be sure that it is not by chance that the first 4 people to visit the thread after warrior posted are not all town? If that is the case, then it is quite plausible to think that all voting Sinestro are town. There is nothing that makes it seem like scum are more likely to have viewed the thread the past 108 minutes and voted for Sinestro.

[Junpei]

MoI: I was reaction testing you; and you acted as I was 98% sure you would act; unfortunately that is not indicative of your alignment at all. I'm well aware of why RedCoyote was a much more favorable vote for you at the time.

Bunny, you're forgetting the possibility of 3rd party; this doesn't have to be two scum setup. Regardless it doesn't matter because Sinestro dies today.

[Junpei]

What about Sinestro makes him lurkerscum as opposed to lurkertown?

RC you should answer this now.

[Junpei]

I see your angle, but I also see the WIFOM.

Why not try to make it look like you want SB dead if you know that SB is just going to end up claiming Hider?

I mean, riddle me that, MoI.

What does this mean? How did MoI know that SB would claim Hider?

Also, from what I've read from your convos, I figured I should say that MoI is right in some areas, and you are right in some areas, you both should stop it and focus elsewhere because anyone who will read and notice your points already has.

[Junpei]

Kdub, interesting proclamation.

You believe that it is more likely that RC is mafia that is FoSing a scum opponent, than town who honestly has that opinion? You don't find it odd that no other scum voiced opinion of Sinestro being scum? Because I can find little evidence of anyone trying to get Sinestro lynched for real. I mean hey, it is suspicious that RC can't explain that stance, but to say that he needs to die... I can't agree simply based off of that.

[Junpei]

So let me get this straight:

You think that RC, on his own, said that Sinestro was lurkerscum (an undercomment, he hardly spoke of lynching Sinestro) as a means to get rid of confirmed scum in his eyes as to not waste a night kill even though no one at all advocated a Sinestro lynch to any credible degree?

[Junpei]

Bunnylover do you think that Stringer could have reasonably thought that there was no chance he would survive past day 2? Also that is irrelevant, because he used the ability which happens before cycling choices. He died from the action phase, not the cycling phase. If you think that Stringer didn't use the Hider then I'm shocked and await your reasoning.

I agree with you on the wagoning statement.

[Junpei]

Ghostlin, what reason are you thinking of?

[Junpei]

Interesting... so Ghostlin says that a hid hider can be investigated, and MoI says that it cannot. The wiki aligns with MoI here, Ghostlin.
http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Hider
Also mafia's number 1 goal is to stay alive. I figure he was hiding to avoid possibly dying at night to 3rd party/second scum team who want the hider ability out of the way.

[Junpei]

Sinestro, how do you establish a wincon? What is the wincon?

[Junpei]

Nice catch, Slysly.

Thank you Stringer, for catching scum for us.

We shouldn't end the day yet though, but sinestro will be dying today via hanging.

[Junpei]

Toog, are you denying that Sinestro is scum?

Also I will be v/la over Thanksgiving as well; will probably phone post during the break.

[Junpei]

What is your cycle ability and what does it do if you have one?

Are you aware that we will lynch you day 3 if we don't lynch you today?

[Junpei]

Your transitive abillity, do you have one and if so what is it?

What is your motivation again to help town?

[Junpei]

Toog, I'd have to agree with you that it is looking like Warrior is scum who faked a guilty on Sinestro. In fact I have a theory for what has happened here which makes Warrior very likely scum.

Basically I find it to be likely the case that scum have daytalk and that they were not suspecting Sinestro because they were collaborating to guilty him. I think it took a little while to process what happened, and then a little while to come up with a plan and and to decide who to fake the guilty in the scum QT which is why we see a delay. No rash actions when you have X amount of buddies to talk it over with. I have no idea why scum would chose warrior, but there could be any number of reasons, so I don't shy away for that.

[Junpei]

So you think it is more likely in this game that all his scum partners would rather push a Hider partner early Day 1 hoping that his claim would bail him out as opposed to actually going after their presented scum reads? You may call it WIFOM all you want. Logically more of Stringers partners will be pushing the counterwagons than pushing him. Is the possibly a partner there? Yes, it's possible. But you will find more good targets looking in the counterwagons than on Stringer.

Especially if we are in MultiScum where bussing is much less attractive

.

Hm? Scum would know whether or not we're in a game with multiple scum teams?

Also, if you had (2%) done something different, than I would have been suspicious. For instance if you had voted Ghostlin.

Sinestro dies today because:

1) I don't believe his claim

2) It's too good of an offer; we could kill Fourseen tonight, but something makes me think that Sinestro just wants to live one more night at least for some reason. We need to hang him now.

[Junpei]

No I don't. Someone claimed Hider; anyone should have seen that your role should have targeted the person with Hider because they are the most high profile targets as it has a very protown ability.

Either you're scum, or you messed up.

[Junpei]

unvote

for replacements

[Junpei]

I am Innocent, we have a week left including the US holiday weekend (I see you will be celebrating that), and you are at post ~650. Any way you can pick up the pace? You aren't going to finish in a timely fashion and you won't be able to discuss with town much at all before nightfall.

[Junpei]

"13. If at deadline there is no majority, No Lynch will occur. If there is a tie at deadline, No Lynch will occur."

From the opening post; so we need to hammer on Sinestro before the deadline, as it doesn't look like we have plurality voting at deadline to determine a lynch in this game.

pedit: I think that Peregrine is trying to use the "I did what was best and I am suffering the consequences of my independent actions" which you, MoI, said was a towntell regarding the vig shot.

[Junpei]

I think that MoI needs a closer look, things are not adding up, and it does not look good for him.

I'll get working on this and try to have something presentable before deadline if at all possible. Don't hammer Sinestro until I am able please.

[Junpei]

In this case I have determined that through scum slips and suspicious play that MoI is most certainly mafia. If I die night 2, don't forget this; MoI needs to hang day 3. I have compromised a neighborhood QT in order to do this, but I find it to be quite worth it.

At the very least

, read the scumslip at the bottom of the page.

Junpeis' MoI Case

Lets see what he's been up to...

Right off the bat, says we have two scum teams. NOTE: I believe that MoI is in one of at least 2 scum teams :NOTE. There really isn't any reason to suspect this because he doesn't consider abilities/poison already going to hurt 'the plan', he immediately jumps to the conclusion of multi-scum teams. As MoI says later in the game, scum should know if there are multiple teams based on their numbers.

Twists' crypto's words. Crypto destroys MoIs' 'calling out' and 'quicklynch' tell, and MoI responds by 1) saying crypto is suspicious for 'appeal to wifom' (Lol, I can't make this stuff up) 2) saying crypto is suspicious for asking people to explain their votes on others. MoI isn't this bad.

Crypto impersonates MoI well as MoI, in 2 from the last point, was doing nothing more than attacking Cryptos scumhunting style. MoI wrote it off as empty rhetoric and dropped the Crypto argument very shortly after.

Says he already discussed crypto's read when asked why he bailed the conversation; but that's not true at all, MoI really only attacked his playstyle (obviously his playstyle), and made up appeal to wifom. If appeal to wifom exists, it is NOT what crypto did.

Much more likely to come from scum you say? Tell me MoI, what scum motivation is there to not know what Cognitive Dissonance is? Tell me MoI, if Crypto is "just one of those players" that believe X, then why does believe X make him scum? Oh, because then you might be able to mislynch him later.

Crypto isn't a scum read yet he said he was being scummy several times, and even voted him for a period. A period which was followed by one with little discussion with Crypto, until this proclamation. But no; MoI just thinks Crypto is bad.

So, caught in his lie MoI says that Crypto is always going to be just like scum, but he's town. I can't make this stuff up folks; MoI thinks that Crypto purposefully was trying to emulate scum play which was why he thought he was scum.

Doesn't see how warrior is scummy, perhaps they are in the same QT at night.

Wait, in this post he says that he has no evidence that Crypto is a VI and not scum. But he said that Crypto wasn't scum, just bad earlier. Contradictionsss

Oh this is a good one: Read where he's responding to the bold in nopoints post; specifically point 2: Asking for evidence someone is not scum is horrible. But.. Magna does the same thing by asking MagisterLudi how he is town.

Also; MoI defends me a lot, which really felt like buddying to me then and now. I think he was preparing for the moment he would enlist me in the neighborhood, and try to win me over, knowing I'm a vocal player.

MoI tells Magister Ludi (in 2) that he isn't pushing scum reads by just saying "lets get this wagon going" or things similar. It's funny because later he accuses SlySly of pushing my wagon despite saying at most those things, if not less.

I'm on MoI's "no lynch under any circumstance, even to avoid NL" list; now, he did buddy me through defending me all game, but he also at many points said I was scummy for other things. I find it odd that I pop up as a top town read all of the sudden. Although it makes no sense as to why he made this list in the first place, if not to setup his eventual neighborizing of me.

That's his day 1 play, and really all we need to look at to see his awful scum play. But if you're interested in what happens day 2, I'll summarize real fast:
- Says (in a very sly and offhand way) that people should sheep him for being right about Stringer
- Twists what SlySly said to fit his conclusion
- Misreps Implosion
- Appeal to probability (I don't care if he doesn't credit this, you most certainly did do this. Saying anything X is so unlikely to happen that it didn't happen is appeal to probability. It does not matter if we are dealing with RNG or events determined by the actions of humans)
- MoI said that FC was clearly town VI, but the examples he gave me to look at did not express that clear distinction of FC being town.
- Toog sees that MoI assumes multi-scum (with this second slip, I'm sure that there are two scum teams) and MoI twists Toogs' words onto him.

MoI neighborized me, and in that QT, he scum slipped. I've recreated his post for you:

"Well insofar as Sinestro has claimed Serial Killer I think any discussions about scum-team possibilities should be shelved until after N2 when we see more about what kills happen.

The Warriormode situation really is pretty straightforward. Is he Town or his he scum?

If Warrior is Town he did see Sinestro get visited by Stinger. Pretty straightforward.

If Warrior is Scum we have two options -

1. Warrior's scum-team took a shot at Sinestro (which seems as out there as Watching him, IMO) and Warrior was selected / chose make the fake Watch claim. Either his team has the Watch ability N1 or he's completely faking it (I think the former is much more likely in this scenario).
2. Warrior is scum who had the Watch and chose to use it in hopes of seeing a Town investigative role / killing role going after Sinestro. Very much less likely given that abilities pass but could be used to eliminate possible opposing teams via POE for Warrior's partners."

In this post, MoI assumes that Warrior is not on the same scumteam as Stringer. When he is interrogated on the subject, he deflects, and tries to twist my words and my theory to implicate me in the same fashion. Of course, it didn't work, and I quickly tore through his poor reasoning, and he only then backtracked and said "uh, I meant, I meant that those are the two options wherein warrior isnt' on stringers scumteam... did I forget to say that...?". Which is, needless to say, absolutely ridiculous.

It also is quite obvious with MoI's strong buddying of me, pointing out other scummy things I was doing all game, and then being his top town read randomly that he was planning on neighborizing me; and forgot about all the dirt he was throwing around, and how it had hit me several times.

I think it is very likely that scum have daytalk, and that MoI is mafia with Stringer, and stringer was a planned bus-to-claim-hider. It is also possible (you may find this more probable) that MoI is mafia with a second scum team. The main point here is that it looks quite likely that Warrior is not scum or is on another scum team and has a watcher ability. MoIs' flip of scum will prove this.

Sirs, I have your day 3 lynch.

[Junpei]

For clarification, that MoI quote is a close paraphrase which I'm sure he'll agree correctly portrays he's meaning, purpose, and thought of the post.

[Junpei]

You want the entirety of our conversation minus anything I deem not suitable to out? I may have to paraphrase as per the rules, but looking at the rules... I actually don't see anything prohibiting quoting of a quicktopic. I'll wait for the mod to confirm this, I sent him a PM.

Our warrior discussion is really a gametheory discussion. Is that the topic that you want to be posted of?