Disney Villains Mafia: Game Over

[Eidolon]

Hmm. I have no idea how role information would incriminate another player... but let's see where this goes.

Vote: UN

[Eidolon]

RC, wagoning in the RVS stage is an effective strategy. It gets the game moving toward something serious.

It doesn't seem like matt was joking and I wonder why you say it is obvious that he was? Just because you can't think of what role would give hints to affiliations, he might have deduced it somehow. He can clarify (preferably later) if he was joking.

[Eidolon]

Vote: Eidolon

She's not even sure why she's voting UN.

I was voting to get a wagon going, and because i was intrigued by the comment.

[Eidolon]

Guys I'm miller.

Serious claim or not?

no comment on the UN situation?

[Eidolon]

I believe Sal. My flavor isn't that great either.

FOS : F-16. Bandwagoning and contradicting your own supposed scumtell from earlier.

Unvote, Vote :pidgey

He's trying too hard to sound town: responded on the UN thing, even though it was already passed, because it was part of his reasoning on the sal vote. Also, he was rolefishing there. Post 99 is trying to be townie. Post 104 is covering for the fact that scar should be in the game and if it goes un cc'd, should help clear Sal.

[Eidolon]

I believe Sal. My flavor isn't that great either.

FOS : RC. Bandwagoning and contradicting your own supposed scumtell from earlier.

I had a good reason for voting Salamence. Much more concrete then "Matt said so."

You just voted without giving reason, and you used faulty bandwagony reasoning once you got called out on it. You know clear well that miller's flavors fit the theme, so not all millers are bad but good on the inside. an evil miller in a game of villians isn't a reason to vote.

Also, my vote was part of RVS, but you voted with the intention to reach towards a lynch.

Point is, you called me out on something, and then committed it later. That's contradictory and scummy.

[Eidolon]

But RC, you didn't vote with good reasoning.

Everyone was calling Sal's flavor bad, and you wagoned that reasoning, but your own explanation of it was faulty. I explained that and yet you don't argue HOW your reasoning was correct, you just say it is.

There really is no comparing our wagons. I wagoned on an rvs vote, for pressure, to move the game out of rvs, and you wagon on a lynch target, giving faulty reasoning after the fact.

Anyway, i won't continue this back and forth because i'm more interested in Pidgey.

@ Pidgey. Does checking wiki's automatically make someone scum? I've seen plenty of townies do that. Why would sal admit to that if he were scum? Also, you say that RC will flip scum regardless of sala's alignement (implying that you are more certain of his scumminess than sala's) so why is your vote on sala?

[Eidolon]

My vote is on sala because i think he is lying, plus it has the bonus that the last time i saw sala as town he was beyond ugly so i wouldnt even sweat it if he really is a miller, which he probably isnt.

However, it could also be rapidcanion not only late joined to the party but his reasoning behind it is FLAVOR instead of the content and the way in which sala claimed, which is stupid as fuck so he is scum too.

I just cant vote twice

But according to you, RC is scum no matter what sala flips, so why keep your vote on the lesser of your scum reads, who just happens to have a larger wagon?

And if RC is voting with you, on someone you thought was scum, why is he so scummy to you? Does poor reasoning always equate to scum?

Sounds like you are finding the best target you can to place the blame on if sala were to flip inno.

[Eidolon]

Thats logic i cannot dispute

vote: RC

hmm. well.. that seems townie.

Unvote

RC, how was your reasoning lynch worthy? How is it not debatable that Sal is scum?

[Eidolon]

RC, i pushed pidgey to change his vote because his reasoning was contradictory to his vote placement. i wanted to see how he handled my pointing that out. If you notice,

my

vote hasn't moved to you.

Pasch, current thoughts on pidgey & umbrage?

ROFL, do you think umbrage is scum or are you following along with llama's policy?

Umbrage, can you explain why rc's vote made him town?

[Eidolon]

Just real quick: Regarding that one post I made, when I was pressuring pidgey I legitimately thought it was possible one or both of them were scum. After thinking about it a bit more, I realized RC’s response to me seemed town. He’s usually stubborn as town and he seemed to believe what he was saying to me. So I’m leaning slight town on both of them.

Right now I’m looking at pasch, and maybe agent_ireland.

Vote: Pasch

Will be back later with more.

[Eidolon]

This is why pasch is scummy:

He hasn't been scum-hunting:

- He pushed RC which seemed like the safe place for him to go at that point, others called him scummy.
- He didn't follow that lead at all.
- He supported my wagon without changing his vote, or saying anything else about rc.

His other posts have been filler:

-Talking about another game. He's diffusing the sal/drmy issue without making a stance on issues related to this game.
- Bringing up the people who haven't posted (no duh?)
- his views on pidgey/ umbrage were wishy washy.

I'm undecided on klick but Jake seems pretty bad right now. Jake are you an alt? Some things you say seem like you know a bit about the site but other things seem really newbish.

[Eidolon]

ok, well.. i feel like you wouldn't have brought up the sal thing after others had taken heat for it unless you really meant it so.. leaning townish on you.

[Eidolon]

Where was this push before, pasch?

You were pretty much just going "la di da, i'll make a few general comments here and there to coast by unnoticed, while my supposed scumread takes no heat"

i think umbrage should only be a last resort lynch. it wouldn't give us much info. if he flips town, everyone can just pass it off as policy. i'm kinda 50/50 on him being scum or not.

[Eidolon]

He's scum

why?

[Eidolon]

STOP making me think you're town. That's an ORDER.

too bad. i am town

A more general site question since I'm a bit out of the loop; what's the policy on mafia discussion pre-game? Is it allowed up until the game starts or do they have to wait on night talk?

Is it just me or does this seem planted?

[Eidolon]

So do you believe Sal and Pidgey are partners or not? (I'm not sure, based on 'helping clear Sal). Where was he rolefishing?

I'm leaning town on both of them. He was rolefishing in the post where he asked matt to explain his comment about UN.

What about theme makes you more or inclined to believe that there is/would be a miller in this game?

The theme doesn't make me think anything about which roles are more or less likely to be in the game. Not sure why that is relevent?

Why would it be against scum's interest to say they checked the wiki?

I never said it would be? I'm just saying that checking the wiki doesn't make him scum.

Why is it explicitly townie that you explained why his logic was faulty and then he figuratively sheeped you?

It was the way he admitted that he was using faulty logic.. gave me town vibes.

Some of your questions rub me the wrong way... they just seem... not really aimed at scum hunting, more aimed at useless clutter.

Who do you think is scummiest so far and why?

...

Btw Drmy seems to be playing off from what i know of his town meta. Not a super strong scum read, just thought i'd throw that out there.

[Eidolon]

oh wow, soooo much attention. let me get responding to this stuff, so that people can move on and start looking at pasch's weak play, agent_irelands non-commited and poor argument on sal, and shadowgirl's fake scumhunting.

[Eidolon]

Sorry if the quotes aren't perfect. I'm too lazy to multiquote all these people, crop out the irrelevent parts, etc.. but i'll try responding to the things said against me that seem relevent.

I am so conflicted on Eidolon.

Eidolon, what is your read on me? Do you think I am scum? If so, why do you never accuse me but push other people to vote for me or make cases against me and compliment them and give them town reads for doing so?

In Pidgey's case, as soon as he votes me, he becomes town.

In Pasch's case, you enocurage him to push me and when he does, you say "where was this push before, this is what we've all been waiting for!" (paraphrased).

I think you are town.. i feel pretty decent about that right now.

Like i said before, when i was pressuring pidgey, i thought you were scummy, but after re-evaluating it, around the time pidgey unvoted, i came to the conclusion that you were likely town.

The pasch thing has nothing to do with you, and I never applauded his case on you. I just wondered him why he wasn't pushing his reads, or scumhunting at all. He's playing waaay too low key. Why would i be pushing your lynch if my vote is on him and i'm calling him out on his behavior?

@ Shadowgirl

Alright, but as of that post, you believed pidgey was scum: why would it be in his interests to clear Sal?

I think you are misconstruing what i said. Pidgey said something along the lines of "Sal might actually be scar, but is faking his role." What this read to me is "Sal is town and i am scum. Other townies might notice that scar SHOULD be in this game, and might not want to vote sal for that reason alone, so i am going to wifom a failsafe in saying that sal could be scar and mafia at the same time." make sense? Basically, it's speculation that doesn't seem to be needed except for some ulterior motive.

So why wouldn't sal admit that he checked the wiki if he were scum?

because people seem to think that wiki benefits scum more than it does town. Like... really. why are you asking me this and wtf? it's common sense.

How does this vote seem overly townie? He basically just said he agreed with you and that was it.

Just the way he said it. Experience kind of tells you when someone you are pushing is town due to intuition- their tone, intensity, feeling. His admittance of his own fault seemed honest, he resisted the right amount before considering my point and not having some qaulms about changing his behavior appropriately.

I don't see much purpose in any of your other questions, except maybe what is wrong with your questions, which i will get to later.

Re Drmy: From my experience, drmy is more passive as town, and he will sheep people he has town reads on. I haven't seen him aggressively tunnel another player in the way that he did this game. I've only played one game with him before so it's not a super strong read, just enough to hold pause.

Noww... let's talk about shadowgirl and Agent_ireland, because their recent posts show them to be way better leads than me.

[Eidolon]

Mattp, I'm glad someone here is sane.

I just hope you aren't scum because i really am not sure how to read you at. all.

But yes. Shadowgirl is scummy.

- She opens up her posting with an apology. Automatic

- Most of her questions really do not do anything to help catch scum.

Here are some gems:

Why does research make you so skeptical?

On the thought of autolynching: what would you have said if he was voting you, on basis of policy lynch?

What about theme makes you more or inclined to believe that there is/would be a miller in this game?

This person is trying way too hard to sound like they are involved in the game without actually scumhunting or voicing opinions.

[Eidolon]

oops i forgot,

unvote, vote shadowgirl

[Eidolon]

Also, I don't draw scum anymore, Eid, I only draw town.

yeah yeah, thats what they all say i expect more ingenuity than that mister!

[Eidolon]

A more general site question since I'm a bit out of the loop; what's the policy on mafia discussion pre-game? Is it allowed up until the game starts or do they have to wait on night talk?

Is it just me or does this seem planted?[/quote]

Also, does anyone notice how shadowgirl responded to every.single.one.of.my.responses.except.this?

She doesn't genuinely care about the answer to her question.

FAKE.

MattP: over-excessive buddying noted.

Pidgey: You are cute.

[Eidolon]

hmmmm i don't know what to make of her claim. like, it seems all right, but hello roleblocker anyone?

And it's not just those three questions. almost every question is just remarking at some off the wall thing that doesn't really pertain to alignment.

like this:

So are you saying it was bad play to claim as a miller because it outed having a cop? He's either bad town or scum but not both.

What is the actual purpose in these questions?

why did you have "no response" to that one question in particular, yet you had responses to every other single one?

So what of my answers to you? What theories did it allow you to develop?

i'll post more later.

have to wrap my head around it some more.

shadowgirl, how many games have you played before?

[Eidolon]

i'm gonna

unvote

for now. don't know the vote count and don't want to rush anything.

[Eidolon]

hey matt, what is your case on her?

[Eidolon]

sooo.. three deaths, one mafia member down woohooo. i think probably the sk was going to try and disguise themselves as the vig, which is why 2 lurkers died, and aurosvox was the mafia kill.

still suspicious of pasch, btw.

[Eidolon]

why drmy?

[Eidolon]

Oh and i don't really like shahaz either, especially the way she made analysis for other players and then put a vote up for shadow.

Also, she was really defensive about my talk of Agent_ireland yesterday.

[Eidolon]

That's actually a pretty good point on llamafluff.

he was playing evasively the first half of day 1 too.

[Eidolon]

llamafluff, if umbrage was omgusing you because he was scum, why did you vote him for "policy" rather than because he was scum?

Why did you switch your vote off of him yesterday to hop on the wagon, and then divert back to policy again this dp?

[Eidolon]

@Matt - No. I just think Umbrage is a dispicable person and bad player. There may be one player on the site I hate more then Umbrage at this point, and he is without doubt in the three worst players in the history of mafiascum what I have seen over four years. Its WELL known that I hate him and the continued policy push should come as no surprise.

Besides, something happened to me last night that and I thank whoever did it to me, it doesnt say confirm Umbrage as scum but it helps justify play like this from where I am.

Please elaborate without giving details about roles. Are you saying umbrage is scummy or no? did the "information received" make it more likely that umbrage is scum?

[Eidolon]

1st of all, iirc, his justification was because he had a lot of power but used it bad? or something like that.

2nd, what is being neighborized?

also, are you positive that cop doesn't get guilty/not guilty? because sk might simply be investigation-proof.

the cop was dr. facilier. have no clue what that flavor would be and what clues it would give towards cop investigations.

thirdly, do you really think it's good to waste a lynch on the miller? since we know theres a vig, the vig shoot probably just shoot them since miller shouldn't be making it to lylo.

And if you think sal's miller claim is wrong, based on the info you got last night, WHY did you say you would vote drmy, who was going hard after sal all day 1?

[Eidolon]

@ Shaz, RapidCanyon is town and i think you are scum, going after RC because Matt said if shadow flips town, rc should be vig killed. You jumped on Shadow hoping that rapid could take the heat for it afterwards.

You didn't even go after rapid yesterday. What made you suddenly so sure that he is scum?

besides, pasch's vote on shadow is worse than rapids. Seriously. Look at the two. Kill Pasch over Rapid.

[Eidolon]

lmfao. Look back over the end of day 1.

Shaz doesn't even mention RC in her first post, but when matt says rc will flip scum if shadow flips town, she starts paying attention to him.

Her vote on him today is sooo opportunistic.

[Eidolon]

oh really? Why is he "NOT" town?

i happen to be able to read him very well on my own, tyvm.

[Eidolon]

RC in 349 is a little twitchy, plus the fact that more then others he seemed to think SG had a decent chance of flipping town. I was in no way expecting that flip and was thrilled because there was enough of a SG-Umbrage connection to be sure that he would be dead today.

Thanks for answering for someone who gave no reason as to why RC is scum, and disregarded all her prior reads to hop on a likely suspect.

[Eidolon]

EIDOLON TAKE A HINT

fine whatever.

[Eidolon]

I'm capable of answering for myself. He's mafia. He needs rope. That is all. As for disregarding all my other reads, I had several days to reevaluate them. I haven't dismissed them, but I'm voting mafia now.

if he flips town i'm coming back with a vengeance.

vote: rapid

Don't rush a lynch. give some time for everyone to come back and weigh in.

[Eidolon]

Also again - anyone who got neighborized needs to claim because it catches scum and probably clears Edio as town.

again, what is neighborizing?

Rapid, why are you assuming Shaz is a cop?

[Eidolon]

--RC is continuing to play cautiously and show that he's concerned with how people are perceiving him. At the moment I still don't think that means he's scum; he's coming across like he's on his own in the game as opposed to being a member of a scum team. He's someone I probably will want to be investigated at some point, but I'm okay with him for now.

Here. She said she was investigating me. And the moment this Day starts, she keeps going "RC is scum, lynch him nowww."

Like seriously, scum KNEW I was getting investigated tonight, so if Shaz is a sane cop, I was framed. Other explanation is that she is paranoid.

Also, Eido, why are you voting me if you don't think Shaz is a cop?

WTF kind of question is this? You know that cop is not the only form of investigation.

[Eidolon]

If you flip town, she can clarify then.

[Eidolon]

I visited no one last night let alone one of the nk's. so I know it is not a tracker or watcher result. Shah can confirm this if she is tracker/watcher.

Pedit: You don't even question what kind of investigation makes me look guilty? Lynch first and ask questions later?

i think the only thing she'd need to clarify is if she IS a "normal" cop, because then she's probably paranoid or insane. but otherwise, no.

[Eidolon]

Rapid, if she suspects that she could be paranoid, she can clarify now.

otherwise, you are scum, and she caught you, and you are pissed off because you didn't do the nk, so you didn't think you'd get caught, or you are the sk, and you didn't think you'd get caught, or whatever.

and if she's lying, then she's going down, and a 1 for 1 trade would benefit us.

[Eidolon]

the only way she could possibly be paranoid is if she is a normal cop.

if not, then she shouldn't clarify.

and your reaction is scummy enough anyway.