Disney Villains Mafia: Game Over

[rapidcanyon]

LlamaFluff, no. Show me where you think I was trying to discredit her and why you think so. The purpose of doing it would be to convince me (and others) that you FOS while wrong was based on concrete reasonable thinking. In other words, convince me that you are town by justifying your FOS.

[ShadowGirl]

Page 1 rereads (for now):

that would have to be a really ballsy gambit to be scum. mattp is town.

vote: uberninja

Why would it be a ballsy gambit as scum?

@Everyone who voted UN based on Matt's comment:

What was the basis of the vote? Were you simply willing to lynch him based on a 50% chance he was scum?

Actually, you're wrong. I don't want to go into role speculation, but there are two roles off the top of my head that could give him reason for his suspicion.

However, you're discouraging a harmless bandwagon in RVS which could be used to generate discussion, AND giving possible UN-scum a cop-out.

VOTE: rapidcanyon

PEdit: Just making sure, you're being sarcastic, right rofl?

I just get bad vibes from this post on the basis of wanting to propel RVS further by propping it up with the belief that you think you might be aware of some roles that could have that information. And I don't think that it gives UN-scum a cop out if Matt adamantly states that his information are true? I'm not sure if you're saying that you believe Matt's information or whether you want to simply keep up RVS.

Vote Umbrage

My vote will never move. This is policy. Umbrage is destructive and openly admits to intentionally playing against his win condition repetedly as town.

I will post questions and stuff as the game goes on and a bigger analysis post at end of the day, but there is literally no better lynch that can ever occur then Umbrage. Anyone who has played with him knows this. Its like the worst aspects of Natarisha meets the worst aspects of LLD.

On the one hand, you've stated in the sign up topic that you're adamant about Umbrage's lynch so this doesn't look entirely fabricated for convenience as it could, but why didn't you try and get him out of the game before it started?

Shadowgirl, did you ignore the bolded part on purpose or was it an oversight on your part?

Purposeful; I wanted to see your response.

A more general site question since I'm a bit out of the loop; what's the policy on mafia discussion pre-game? Is it allowed up until the game starts or do they have to wait on night talk?

[Eidolon]

STOP making me think you're town. That's an ORDER.

too bad. i am town

A more general site question since I'm a bit out of the loop; what's the policy on mafia discussion pre-game? Is it allowed up until the game starts or do they have to wait on night talk?

Is it just me or does this seem planted?

[ShadowGirl]

Up to page 6 (my apologies for the length of this post):

VOTE: Salamance
He probably has a kind of an "intelligent" scum partner who told him to claim Miller from the start.

That is making a lot of presumptions in that you believe he's a weak player and he's being put out as a sacrificial lamb. What is your past experience with him?

sal is town too

No name claim, no flavor claim... good chance he is blustering

Why is a full claim necessary?

Okay.

Llama, let's face it. Not everyone knows Umbrage, not everyone knows LLD, not everyone knows Natasha (?).
I don't think this Umbrage POLICY lynch is going to happen any time soon. If we are lynching him, it would be because he's scummy.

VOTE: drmyshotgun

I'll worry about UN after night phase when he'll be confirmed.

Confirmed how? And what was the reasoning for your vote here?

I don't think you are a capable enough player to know how to play a Miller role.
I think someone else in your team suggested you to claim a Miller because you might be so easily killed otherwise.

@Sala:
Show me where you learned how to play like a Miller.
Do you have experience as Miller? That would be useful too.
I'm not underestimating you. I'm saying your role-claim sounds very manufactured.

Miller role is like a Time-bomb. You set self-destruction device onto yourself by claiming one.
If you

are

a miller, that's a good play. If you aren't, that's also a good play for "weak" scum because it will earn him a few days or so.

Between these two posts, you're underestimating him whether he's town or scum, but it's angled so that it looks like he's likely scum.
1) You're weak scum > Someone 'smarter' told you to claim scum > You're scum.
2) You're weak town > Claiming as miller would be a good idea, but I don't think you would know that; you're weak town > You're scum.
In general, I think if it's first time as miller that claiming right off the bat would seem like the most sensical option, as trying to play well to/or playing simply to draw the NK seems a bit risky. It comes off much worse to claim post a cop investigation.

Oh so Salamance, you look up in Wiki when you are playing the roles for the first time?
Where else have you done this? Is this your first time actually researching a role and learn how to play them through Wiki?

Why does research make you so skeptical?

1. Lol. Do you normally search up Wiki to learn how to play them.
2. Haha, that game you linked, contained zero Miller.
3. If you are actually a ~real~ Miller and You claiming pretty much confirms presence of Cop.

So are you saying it was bad play to claim as a miller because it outed having a cop? He's either bad town or scum but not both.

LOL AT PIDGEY NOT WANTING TO LYNCH OBVSCUM

BUDDYBUDDYBUDDY

On the thought of autolynching: what would you have said if he was voting you, on basis of policy lynch?

Unvote Klick

Vote Salamence

Why the vote?

Unvote Klick

Vote Salamence

TOWN

Why does this vote, as opposed to pidgey's, get your seal of approval?

LOL AT PIDGEY NOT WANTING TO LYNCH OBVSCUM

BUDDYBUDDYBUDDY

Yet he's voting Sala too.

IT'S CALLED BUSSING

That's what I meant

This seems like the most convenient turnaround to me; keeping this as a memo to self.

Lol

Yeah im bussing, you Caught Me.

Why do you want to end the day after 3 hours and when the UN situation is far from resolved?

That's not the question.

The question is, why do you NOT want to?

I'm going to second the question that didn't get answered; why do you want to?

Rapidcanyon is scum doesnt matter what sala flips btw, this last post is bullshit. A miller could be any character with correct justification, but sala is scum because his claim was botched

How is post 114 so damning that he's autoscum? Also, if you think they're both scum, you believe that they're partners, yes?

I believe Sal. My flavor isn't that great either.

FOS : F-16. Bandwagoning and contradicting your own supposed scumtell from earlier.

Unvote, Vote :pidgey

He's trying too hard to sound town: responded on the UN thing, even though it was already passed, because it was part of his reasoning on the sal vote. Also, he was rolefishing there. Post 99 is trying to be townie. Post 104 is covering for the fact that scar should be in the game and if it goes un cc'd, should help clear Sal.

So do you believe Sal and Pidgey are partners or not? (I'm not sure, based on 'helping clear Sal). Where was he rolefishing?

You just voted without giving reason, and you used faulty bandwagony reasoning once you got called out on it. You know clear well that miller's flavors fit the theme, so not all millers are bad but good on the inside. an evil miller in a game of villians isn't a reason to vote.

What about theme makes you more or inclined to believe that there is/would be a miller in this game?

@ Pidgey. Does checking wiki's automatically make someone scum? I've seen plenty of townies do that. Why would sal admit to that if he were scum? Also, you say that RC will flip scum regardless of sala's alignement (implying that you are more certain of his scumminess than sala's) so why is your vote on sala?

Why would it be against scum's interest to say they checked the wiki?

Not that per se, but he also didnt bother with at least claiming his Role name until asked, he at first claimed in a jokinglish matter while leaving an RVS vote, and other stuff of the sort.

What about the first post seemed overly joking to you? I read it and thought it was possible he was claiming as such.

My vote is on sala because i think he is lying, plus it has the bonus that the last time i saw sala as town he was beyond ugly so i wouldnt even sweat it if he really is a miller, which he probably isnt.

However, it could also be rapidcanion not only late joined to the party but his reasoning behind it is FLAVOR instead of the content and the way in which sala claimed, which is stupid as fuck so he is scum too.

I just cant vote twice

I don't like the implication that 'oh, if he turns up town we didn't lose much'.

Cuz you are widely known as a terrible player (not my personal opinion of you, but the words going around generally tells me that).
Claiming Miller can at least be an attempt to neutralize the concentration and distract the reads on you.

How does miller distract town away from him when it seems like just the opposite is happening?
&

Also, I call bullshit to you searching up how to play as Miller. Someone obviously told you to do something like that to take the hit early and cause distraction with your claim.
That link you provided us: the game containing "Miller" contained No Miller and it's pretty funny that you should provide that in such a hurry. You didn't even think this through.

So what is exactly the aims that scum were going for by making Sal claim miller because it seems that you're saying it'll both draw attention to him and away from him and it just doesn't like a concrete response.

Thats logic i cannot dispute

vote: RC

hmm. well.. that seems townie.

Unvote

RC, how was your reasoning lynch worthy? How is it not debatable that Sal is scum?

Why is it explicitly townie that you explained why his logic was faulty and then he figuratively sheeped you?

[Eidolon]

So do you believe Sal and Pidgey are partners or not? (I'm not sure, based on 'helping clear Sal). Where was he rolefishing?

I'm leaning town on both of them. He was rolefishing in the post where he asked matt to explain his comment about UN.

What about theme makes you more or inclined to believe that there is/would be a miller in this game?

The theme doesn't make me think anything about which roles are more or less likely to be in the game. Not sure why that is relevent?

Why would it be against scum's interest to say they checked the wiki?

I never said it would be? I'm just saying that checking the wiki doesn't make him scum.

Why is it explicitly townie that you explained why his logic was faulty and then he figuratively sheeped you?

It was the way he admitted that he was using faulty logic.. gave me town vibes.

Some of your questions rub me the wrong way... they just seem... not really aimed at scum hunting, more aimed at useless clutter.

Who do you think is scummiest so far and why?

...

Btw Drmy seems to be playing off from what i know of his town meta. Not a super strong scum read, just thought i'd throw that out there.

[rapidcanyon]

I am so conflicted on Eidolon.

Eidolon, what is your read on me? Do you think I am scum? If so, why do you never accuse me but push other people to vote for me or make cases against me and compliment them and give them town reads for doing so?

In Pidgey's case, as soon as he votes me, he becomes town.

In Pasch's case, you enocurage him to push me and when he does, you say "where was this push before, this is what we've all been waiting for!" (paraphrased).

[ShadowGirl]

@ Eidolon, I admit I didn't really do a great job of explaining my vote but it was based on a holistic evaluation of the situation. The justification, Salamence's initial neglect to claim his character and then claiming a flat-out villain all made me think he was scum. I would have made a case against him but everyone was so sure he was scum and were pushing for his lynch, so I didn't bother and just cast my vote figuring it would end in a lynch because it didn't seem like I needed to convince anyone. Then for some reason, I am called out on not giving justification for my vote (why is it necessary? unless you feel like your scum read isn't going to be lynched in which case you push others to vote for them). Also, I saw your not-so-subtle push in getting Pidgey to change his vote to me. Yet, all I did was vote Salamence. I didn't give any reason initially because I didn't feel the need to.

@ Pasch and Eidolon, As to why Sala was lynch-worthy - he didn't really contribute anything of substance. All his posts have been fluff and WIFOM - "Am I really that stupid that I'll claim miller, etc." Also, I have never seen a miller on mafiascum, so I am assuming it is fairly rare and gives Sala an excuse from being investigated guilty. My point about the miller being a fundamentally good person is valid because why would someone bad be a miller? They would just be mafia. Millers often have a redeeming factor that despite appearances they still win with the town.

Making a full case isn't the same as just giving a reason; I don't see any scenario where it's detrimental to give a reason as town if you intend to have them lynched. Also, were you moreso voting Sal because his posts were fluff or because the flavour didn't seem right?

I would probably vote rapid or pidgey. I think given 104 pidgey might be town though because he makes a conclusion that in the last game GNR modded went against it. He is seeming to think villans are scum and town roles, if that is not true (scum is protagonists) pidgey is somewhat likely town.

How does that conclusion make him town? We haven’t seen a mafia flip yet to comfirm that hypothesis, which wouldn’t clear him anyway?

Okay. Jake, 1. you're late to party
2. You still parroted what the host has said already.
3. You weren't invited.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Jake

You’re voting someone for the same reasons that you voted that person?

I don't get the warm fuzzies. best case you are scum, worse case we have gotten rid of a liability.

plus I read that GNR game, you cost town the win.

too bad, so sad my vote stays

I don’t like the reasoning of ‘maybe scum, bad town’ as a foundation for a vote, and being bitter about a past game isn’t a good way to go, either.

ok, well.. i feel like you wouldn't have brought up the sal thing after others had taken heat for it unless you really meant it so.. leaning townish on you.

Using lynch all liars even after the issue being drudged up doesn’t make him town? Whether he voted now or five pages ago for an easy lynch doesn’t necessarily make him town.

@Llama:

What do you think of the policy of lynch all millers? What do you think of Sal's play? Do you think he is playing well? Do you think he is scummy/are you inclined towards voting him?

[ShadowGirl]

@Eidolon

(otherwise I'll forget who I quoted):

I'm leaning town on both of them. He was rolefishing in the post where he asked matt to explain his comment about UN.

Alright, but as of that post, you believed pidgey was scum: why would it be in his interests to clear Sal?

The theme doesn't make me think anything about which roles are more or less likely to be in the game. Not sure why that is relevent?

You just voted without giving reason, and you used faulty bandwagony reasoning once you got called out on it.

You know clear well that miller's flavors fit the theme

, so not all millers are bad but good on the inside. an evil miller in a game of villians isn't a reason to vote.

Am I misinterpreting this statement? It seems you think that it's very possible there could be a miller.

I never said it would be? I'm just saying that checking the wiki doesn't make him scum.

@ Pidgey. Does checking wiki's automatically make someone scum? I've seen plenty of townies do that.

Why would sal admit to that if he were scum?

Also, you say that RC will flip scum regardless of sala's alignement (implying that you are more certain of his scumminess than sala's) so why is your vote on sala?

So why wouldn't sal admit that he checked the wiki if he were scum?

It was the way he admitted that he was using faulty logic.. gave me town vibes.

Thats logic i cannot dispute

vote: RC

How does this vote seem overly townie? He basically just said he agreed with you and that was it.

Some of your questions rub me the wrong way... they just seem... not really aimed at scum hunting, more aimed at useless clutter.

Which questions do you believe are faulty? My post, being that it is a reread, is also for my own personal benefit of note taking.

Who do you think is scummiest so far and why?

I'd like to get some more of my questions answered (by other people) before I commit to a vote, but I don't like drmyshotgun, or well, you, but this is pretty preliminary considering a fair amount of people haven't posted more than you.

@Matt:

Hey, come back and explain if you were joking about the UN thing.

[Agent_Ireland]

I'm a liability as town.

I play much better as scum.

Again, intes miller claim was the only thing I've heard of in awhile involving millers. Micro 1, a scum got investigated and then claimed miller doctor.

This post. If sal continues to increase in his play stats, my money is that he is scum and he has help. No offense sal, going off of what you are saying here.

[drmyshotgun]

Why so many posts so big?

ShadowGrill sounds like he's trying too hard.
umbrage changed vote to Llama and it looks like belated OMGUS vote.

More later.

[ShadowGirl]

Why so many posts so big?

ShadowGrill sounds like he's trying too hard.

I just reread eleven pages and dissected them, that's why. Also, please answer my answers.

This post. If sal continues to increase in his play stats, my money is that he is scum and he has help. No offense sal, going off of what you are saying here.

I am... confused by what you mean by this? If he posts more? If he plays well? He's scum then?

[drmyshotgun]

Agent_Ireland is scummy. Doesn't want to discuss flavor, weak push on Sal, etc.
Jake needs to go to State penitentiary. Pretty clear he didn't read anything but Sala's claim.
AurorusVox - Umm, still at Page 2.
Shahrizai has some catchups to do. The page count might scare her off.

More later.

[ShadowGirl]

*Answer my questions, ack. Okay, clearly late night posting isn't good for me.

Btw Drmy seems to be playing off from what i know of his town meta. Not a super strong scum read, just thought i'd throw that out there.

What is his town meta and how is he deviating from it?

[drmyshotgun]

^Hmm, I missed that line.
Okay, Eidolon is entering my scumdar.

[drmyshotgun]

Btw Drmy seems to be playing off from what i know of his town meta. Not a super strong scum read, just thought i'd throw that out there.

Sounds so manufactured, so fencesitting, so weird.

[UberNinja]

Gonna re-read Eido eventually and either run it into the fucking ground or reverse my read.

Wish me luck... whenever that happens. lol

[MattP]

WAIT A SECOND

OK

I REALLY AM CONFIDANT ABOUT THIS ONE

LIKE IM READY FOR TUNNEL MODE WOOOOOSH

VOTE: SHADOWGIRL

LIKE SHIT CHUNKS HAPPENED KINDA TUNNELING

[MattP]

Damn I was feeling discouraged about this round but thank fucking God

[Eidolon]

oh wow, soooo much attention. let me get responding to this stuff, so that people can move on and start looking at pasch's weak play, agent_irelands non-commited and poor argument on sal, and shadowgirl's fake scumhunting.

[MattP]

Heyyyy everyone here's a FUCKIN NUTSO kinda question why the fuck aren't there more votes on Shadow_Girl? Lol AMIRITE OR AMIRITE?!

Eid, be a dear

[MattP]

I'm so happy I came home to this present

Fucking damnit

Haha

I was thinking

Man, this fucking night

And then

BAM

It's like

Holly shit scum on a platter

[MattP]

I'm like trying to find specific parts of the posts SG made that are scummy, but it's like, the entire fucking everything was scummy, I can't find one single town or neutral -leaning sentence in SGs incoming posts

It's like

Holy fucking shit

And on top of that the posturing and fucking wall

Holy fucking wow

I can't contain myself right now. I literally fucking cannot.

[Eidolon]

Sorry if the quotes aren't perfect. I'm too lazy to multiquote all these people, crop out the irrelevent parts, etc.. but i'll try responding to the things said against me that seem relevent.

I am so conflicted on Eidolon.

Eidolon, what is your read on me? Do you think I am scum? If so, why do you never accuse me but push other people to vote for me or make cases against me and compliment them and give them town reads for doing so?

In Pidgey's case, as soon as he votes me, he becomes town.

In Pasch's case, you enocurage him to push me and when he does, you say "where was this push before, this is what we've all been waiting for!" (paraphrased).

I think you are town.. i feel pretty decent about that right now.

Like i said before, when i was pressuring pidgey, i thought you were scummy, but after re-evaluating it, around the time pidgey unvoted, i came to the conclusion that you were likely town.

The pasch thing has nothing to do with you, and I never applauded his case on you. I just wondered him why he wasn't pushing his reads, or scumhunting at all. He's playing waaay too low key. Why would i be pushing your lynch if my vote is on him and i'm calling him out on his behavior?

@ Shadowgirl

Alright, but as of that post, you believed pidgey was scum: why would it be in his interests to clear Sal?

I think you are misconstruing what i said. Pidgey said something along the lines of "Sal might actually be scar, but is faking his role." What this read to me is "Sal is town and i am scum. Other townies might notice that scar SHOULD be in this game, and might not want to vote sal for that reason alone, so i am going to wifom a failsafe in saying that sal could be scar and mafia at the same time." make sense? Basically, it's speculation that doesn't seem to be needed except for some ulterior motive.

So why wouldn't sal admit that he checked the wiki if he were scum?

because people seem to think that wiki benefits scum more than it does town. Like... really. why are you asking me this and wtf? it's common sense.

How does this vote seem overly townie? He basically just said he agreed with you and that was it.

Just the way he said it. Experience kind of tells you when someone you are pushing is town due to intuition- their tone, intensity, feeling. His admittance of his own fault seemed honest, he resisted the right amount before considering my point and not having some qaulms about changing his behavior appropriately.

I don't see much purpose in any of your other questions, except maybe what is wrong with your questions, which i will get to later.

Re Drmy: From my experience, drmy is more passive as town, and he will sheep people he has town reads on. I haven't seen him aggressively tunnel another player in the way that he did this game. I've only played one game with him before so it's not a super strong read, just enough to hold pause.

Noww... let's talk about shadowgirl and Agent_ireland, because their recent posts show them to be way better leads than me.

[Eidolon]

Mattp, I'm glad someone here is sane.

I just hope you aren't scum because i really am not sure how to read you at. all.

But yes. Shadowgirl is scummy.

- She opens up her posting with an apology. Automatic

- Most of her questions really do not do anything to help catch scum.

Here are some gems:

Why does research make you so skeptical?

On the thought of autolynching: what would you have said if he was voting you, on basis of policy lynch?

What about theme makes you more or inclined to believe that there is/would be a miller in this game?

This person is trying way too hard to sound like they are involved in the game without actually scumhunting or voicing opinions.

[Eidolon]

oops i forgot,

unvote, vote shadowgirl