My Little Pony: Friendship is Redemption (Over)

[fatlikepig]

Although the game has just begun, Trixie's got reads just from page one! She should be a poet or something with that sort of rhyming ability.

Trixie doesn't really buy into the whole "Wow, I thought I was scum but I'm actually not!" thing; if anything, it's actually sort of scummy. Tierce's looks the most natural, if only because she was the first one to post something to that effect and because it at least has some context to it, so Trixie will put that in a sort of "null" category. Poopykins's post jumps out to Trixie as being quite contrived, and ProsecutorGodot's doesn't look fantastic either. Is her first instinct as town to be like, "Hey, guys, I'm super town because of this thing that could quite easily be made up and has been mentioned already"? Probably not.

Charlie's analysis seems quite fluffy. Wouldn't mind an explanation on the benchmark analysis thing either.

So...
VOTE: Vi
The Great and Powerful Trixie shall have her revenge!

But seriously,
VOTE: Poopykins

[fatlikepig]

Trixie finds it unlikely that Godot and Poopykins would be on the same team since scum mates probably wouldn't be inclined to copy each other's little WIFOM tricks, especially when it's so obvious.

[fatlikepig]

Just a word of warning; Trixie will probably only be able to post once-thrice every 24 hours due to

school/other real-life commitments

PERFORMING AWESOME FEATS OF UNICORN MAGIC, so... yeah. Don't expect any instantaneous responses, except maybe on weekends!

Tell me, what are the differences between a town and scum role PM? The alignment color obviously, but beyond that, scum roles contain a fair bit more information. Names of partners, link to QuickTopic, possible false claim, shared abilities and mechanics... It is considerably harder to look at a scum role PM and overlook all the things that are there than it is to look at a town role PM and notice things that are not there.

True confusion on your alignment is definitely a town tell.

Bolding is Trixie's own emphasis.
How can you tell the difference between "true" confusion and scum faking? What are your thoughts on the other two players (Godot / Poopykins) that have said similar things?

DJ P0n-3's #43 looks town to Trixie. She is following her train of thought on Sudo_Nym quite easily, which is always a good sign. She is wary, though, of the fencesitting with regards to Godot. She also disagrees with her earlier vote on chamber.

Salamence's posts thus far have pretty much all been fluff. He was the third to hop on the Godot wagon and has just been sitting there ever since; the fence-sitting/vague read on chamber doesn't resonate very well with Trixie at all.

FoS

Poopykins, reads on chamber and Charlie?

Vi's #98 seems like a good point to Trixie, but she would like to hear a response from Godot before putting him at L-2. Trixie also thinks that Godot's vote on Pinkie Pie is bad and feels like OMGUS/a diversion, considering that accusing someone of "sitting on a wagon" for a grand total of, what, 24 hours (?) doesn't make a great deal of sense.

fatlikepig, same question. I had no intent of using that to go "oh heeey I'm obvtown" (though by now I should be), it was more something I wanted to mention because I thought it was fun and in line with the previous game flavor.

Because by the second or third time somepony says that, it seems contrived. It doesn't seem like a necessary thing to mention at all, given that if Trixie recalls correctly, neither Godot nor Poopykins (well, she doesn't know about Poopykins, but she'll just have to assume) were in the last game, and so probably don't have the same "attachment" (for lack of a better term) to the flavour as you might. It feels tacked on; Poopykins' especially since apparently he felt like he needed to mention that he had neither a QT nor buddies.

[fatlikepig]

Also, Charlie, elaborate on your townread on Feysal, please?

[fatlikepig]

And why is that particular post giving you townvibes? Trixie isn't seeing anything spectacular in there.

[fatlikepig]

And why is that particular post giving you townvibes? Trixie isn't seeing anything spectacular in there.

That's because the fat and porcine Trixie is looking in the opposite direction

Don't you try and stall Trixie out, Charlie.

Of all the people who brought up the Discord-aligned 'Oh, I'm town, hooray!' argument, Godot's felt the most forced.

:/ I wrote mine and still think it sounds more forced than his.

Meaningless. The whole "Discord is town" was bad enough, but banter about it is also bad.

What's your opinion on the ponies who made something of that banter, then? How about Vi's "silver bullet"?

Poopykins, reads on chamber and Charlie?

Town on Chamber, don't know on Charlie.

Elaborate on the Chamber townread, please. Also, you said this at one stage:

I take back my Town read on godot in view of the recent discussion.

How convienent.

...which implies to Trixie that you thought Charlie's change in view towards Godot was sort of scummy. What does that do for your read on him?

I'm slowly coming around to the whole Godot-scum thing...

What exactly made you reconsider, considering you seemed pretty adamant about Godot being newbtown earlier? Also, you switch back to thinking that Godot is town on the same page, which Trixie finds a bit odd. Seems like you can't exactly make up your mind on where to stand.

Bleh Godot is probably derptown.

It simply seems wrong, having a pony alt account complete with relevant avatar but having no flavor knowledge.

Oh, just remembered why I found this so scummy. This reminds me of something that happened in a game I was reading a while back.

Basically, a player(BBMolla) replaced into the game and immediately started giving crap to this other player(xvart) about joining a game without having any knowledge of the flavor.

I donno. I just find it strange as a player, that's all. What would make you join a Community Themed game as opposed to a normal game?

BBMolla was scum. I think this sort of comment is just the sort of thing scum like to say, a comment that seems like scumhunting but is just a way to waste time/distract town.

Given that Shmugen actually had game-related content in that same post and that he hasn't pursued that same train of thought, Trixie doesn't find this all that convincing at all. However, Shmugen sitting on the Godot wagon without contributing very much to it is worrying.

Godot, what exactly /is/ your read on Vi?

[fatlikepig]

Given that Shmugen actually had game-related content in that same post and that he hasn't pursued that same train of thought, Trixie doesn't find this all that convincing at all.

However, Shmugen sitting on the Godot wagon without contributing very much to it is worrying.

What do you make of Salamence then, in regards to bolded? He has not exactly been the epitome of contribution towards said wagon either.

Trixie believes she actually noted Salamence's behaviour in a previous post:

Salamence's posts thus far have pretty much all been fluff. He was the third to hop on the Godot wagon and has just been sitting there ever since; the fence-sitting/vague read on chamber doesn't resonate very well with Trixie at all.

FoS

So to answer your question, Trixie thinks much the same of Salamence sitting on the wagon, but thinks he's scummier than Shmu for other reasons.

Vi, can we haz scumreads plox

Speaking of which, how about you do something useful rather than just sitting on the Godot wagon and buddying Vi, yeah? Why are you asking Vi for her scumreads when they're pretty obvious if you read her posts?

I don't think he was calling me out for fluff. I called him on it, but his claim that my posts were fluff were an attack on someone else being able to have a read one me already suggesting them not having legitimate means of reaching it.

True enough; I don't actually have a scumread on chamber, as yet. It just felt really odd to me that somebody could have a solid townread on chamber. But that may be a meta thing; I've been out of the game long enough that I don't know what anybody's meta is.

Do you think posting fluff is a scumtell or not?

Poopykins can be not-scum for now. Trixie likes #194.

VOTE: salamence20

[fatlikepig]

Hey Rarity, read on Trixie go

[fatlikepig]

That's because she turned your hair green, isn't it?

Odd that you wouldn't go after Trixie when she committed the same "offence" as Shmugen, though.

[fatlikepig]

Mod: I'm voting for Salamence right now, not Poopykins.

Claim seems legit.

~Error fixed

[fatlikepig]

Vi, can we haz scumreads plox

Speaking of which, how about you do something useful rather than just sitting on the Godot wagon and buddying Vi, yeah?

Why are you asking Vi for her scumreads when they're pretty obvious if you read her posts?

Trixie doesn't just ask these questions for shits and giggles, you know.

ummm....my head hurts.

Where are these examples of yours?

Hello, everypony. I was confused by the role PMs, too, but then I realized the flavor and went "Ooooooh."

Anyway, for being the last to confirm,

VOTE: Konowa

What makes you think he is talking about discord being town?

Why? To both of the above statements.
Also, why are you sheeping Vi's reads.

I will get behind a Salamence wagon too.

What? just because me and Vi have the same ideas means I'm sheeping? lol.

Honestly, I

can't stand him

love him

think he has a point

Godot has been tunneling Pinkie for some time, and then suddenly turns to "ooh Sala/Vi team, perfect chance to save myself"

What's his only defense? His noob card? I'm sorry, but I'm with Vi on this one, sue me.

Trust me.

The second quote in here isn't even an example of you having your own idea, because you pretty much spend the whole post talking about how much you agree of Vi and would like to have relations with her etc. The first thing is a less convincing version of what Vi eventually posted (why would anyone talk about their

actual

role PM if they were scum?) - you did post that first, though, Trixie will give you that.

It's not encouraging, though, when all of the original content you've managed to come up with 9 pages into a game amounts to a single quote, now is it?

Put me at L-1.

I wouldn't

Scum 1 and 2 identified.

Vote stays.

Must! Stay! Nonchalant!

So, you think that Godot and his scumbuddy hopped onto your wagon one after another? How likely do you think that is? It's also disconcerting that instead of trying to address the things that Godot (and Trixie, for that matter) have raised, you've instead been trying to discredit the counterwagon by saying, "Well, Godot is scummy and he's trying to wagon me, so this

must

be wrong!"

[fatlikepig]

Godot asked me something?

Last time I checked, it was "I'm a noob, oh look Sala is sheeping Vi, lets kill him"

Because the only things you ever need to respond to are questions, right?

You sheeping Vi is a perfectly legitimate reason for a vote, considering it amounts to both buddying and not contributing anything worthwhile to the game.

[fatlikepig]

Also, going to read Pon3's walls of text later, so bear with Trixie. :[

[fatlikepig]

Salamence, you still haven't told Trixie why you asked Vi for her scumreads when they were plain for everypony to see.

Also, why did it take a fairly sizable wagon on you to get you to post reads?

That's your problem right there, girl! You think the world revolves around you? Nobody really cares if you're posting to prod dodge, you're supposed to make your own time and avatar & not just sit around and have your scumbuddies do it for you.

Why is Tierce scum now, Charlie?

[fatlikepig]

Trixie doesn't think she's talked to chamber at all today. :/

Associative tells are usually pretty crummy 13 pages into a 15 player game, no?

[fatlikepig]

Charlie: Why the heck do you want a claim out of someone who's at L-3 and who you aren't even voting for?

Salamence not wanting to lynch Arugula makes Trixie question the legitimacy of his reads; if he actually thought Godot was scum, then Arugula replacing in shouldn't have meant anything - scum slot is still scum slot. It seems like a huge leap in reasoning: for town with a legitimate scumread on Godot, that scumread should only begin to change if they start to see town-motivated posts out of Arugula, whereas for Salamence it seemed that he was willing to change his opinion on the slot before anything happened.

So, Sala, now that your plan is out in the open (i.e. useless), do you still think we should lynch Arugula?

[fatlikepig]

Dear Princess Lun-
[Source: lamiaaaa on dA]

I learned nothing today.

Charlie: Why the heck do you want a claim out of someone who's at L-3 and who you aren't even voting for?

What?? Are you even paying attention? Ask yourself why I'm asking this of him. If you can't find why then I'll point it out for you but you owe me a muffin.

*ahem*

That was embarrassing.

[fatlikepig]

@Salamence: Meh. That big post doesn't do very much for Trixie either way, because it's mostly stuff that was already fairly self-evident.

Tell Trixie though, do to usually sheep people/lurk in the beginning of the game as town? Links would be swell.

[fatlikepig]

Why are you even asking his opinion after calling his plan useless?

Because his read on Arugula and whether or not his plan works are separate things?

Vi's dodging was the fancy part.

And exactly do you make of that?

[fatlikepig]

*and what

[fatlikepig]

Really close to voting Sudo_Nyn on the spot last post but instead asked the floor who's least active (I'm guessing it's him but wasn't sure). Want answer anyway.

Does the difference between, say, least active and second-least active really make a difference as to your read on Sudo?

Two questions for Sudo, too, while Trixie's at it:
1. Why did you think Godot's claim was "a good one"?
2. What's your read on his replacement?

[fatlikepig]

Dear Princess Lun-
[Source: lamiaaaa on dA]

I learned nothing today.

Charlie: Why the heck do you want a claim out of someone who's at L-3 and who you aren't even voting for?

What?? Are you even paying attention? Ask yourself why I'm asking this of him. If you can't find why then I'll point it out for you but you owe me a muffin.

*ahem*

That was embarrassing.

I'm just trying to decide whether or not you did that on purpose in order to look town. It seems genuine enough but I don't give free passes.

This post makes less than no sense.

You thought he was scummy previously, and replacing out makes him even scummier, but your scum read was strong enough that you don't want to hold it above his replacement's head? What?

If the slot is scum it's scum.

I may have worded things ambiguously (haven't actually reread my post) what I meant was that although replacing out marginally increases the likelyhood that the slot is scum imo, I already have good reasons to suspect the slot and will continue to use those rather than the flaky replacement tell.

I seem to recall the reasons you had for voting that slot were utter rubbish.

What is your stance on the slot at this very moment, reasons included?

Your other question is directly at odds with advice you gave Salamence earlier

Not entirely, you already sprung your trap. And I already have a good idea about how my natural tendancies towards defensiveness change as town and as mafia.

Well isn't this an utterly useless response.

What did I say that was illogical?

(inb4 everything)

in during everything

tl;dr You

[Vi]

are being bad and you should feel bad.

I'm being bad and feeling kind of good about it. :3

Also, I think you're in juuuuust a bit of a hurry to call things fluff and me fluffy. (as cute as I am when that happens) To name one of a few examples, you noticeably glossed entirely over my reaction to Godot's replacement.

No. Your fluffiness is not good nor is it helpful in any way.

And when I'm framing an argument against someone for being 99% useless, I can hardly be expected to use their one relevant post as an exhibit in my case, now can I?

[Charlie]

and Vi are having a battle to see who can be the most useless.

Actually we're battling to see who's most entertaining.

Well isn't that just

darling

infuriating.

Why so

[in re: not both of Sudo and Konowa-Town]

? And which one?

Hint: One is much more likely to be town, and it's not hard to tell which. I'm interested to know which you think it is.

False dichotomy. I said that

not both

of them are Town. It's not implausible that both are scum; just that both are Town. And until convinced otherwise I maintain your Town read on Konowa is crap.

My town read on Konowa is far from crap. Though it's quite lovely of you to call it so without saying why.

If we're on the same page, and if everyone else needs a push to stop being useless,

Unvote: DJ P0n-3
Vote: Sudo_Nym

(L-7)

I'm not sure if trying to butter me up by your timely unvote, or if you're just finally sure that there's no way you can make people think I'm scum.

Who are your top 3 town picks?

Your top 3 scum picks?

Top 3 Scum Picks:
Salamence
Chamber
DJ Pon-3/Charlie tied for third

Top 3 Town Picks:
Trixie (fatlikepig or whatever)
Shmugen
Tierce

The

reasons

why you think someone is scummy always help.

Otherwise it's a bunch of useless unsubstantiated hearsay and opinion.

Does anyone in this game actually have confidence in their ability to read Vi correctly?

I think after a certain point in the game Vi started trying her best to be purposefully hard to read. Which is interesting in itself, and I'm almost inclined to go find out where that turning point was. Almost.

A quick glance at Vi's past games shows me that in Vi's last scum game, Mini 1327 Murder in hte Louvre, she tried to be more useful in that game. Other selected scum games from Vi's recent past include Experimental Role Mafia where Vi was killed Night 1, and not quite as useless as this game, but close; and Otters vs Tigers vs Sharks where Vi was lynched Day 5, and was significantly less useless than this game. All links are to Vi's ISO and not just the game thread, so you can see the fluffiness ratios for yourself.

I tend to think Vi confuses her playstyle as much as possible from scum game to scum game to attempt to avoid scrutiny based on meta. I also think that if you avoiding the WIFOM there, it's certainly possible to read Vi. But that's not a large problem at this point, and I'll explain why.

The thing stopping me from going back to check if there was a noticeable switch of behavior at a certain point, is that Vi has a tendency to Die Early as either alignment (relatively speaking, anyhow~), so in theory this problem should take care of itself given enough time. There's also a tendency to die slightly earlier as town, however, for instance in Murder in the Louvre above, Vi stayed alive to endgame as a serial killer. I'd say if Vi's not dead by D3, or at most D4, it's time to policy lynch her.

tl;dr Looking at Vi's wiki shows that the longer Vi lives, the more likely she is to be scum.

DJ, what's your current stance on Tierce?

Have you

read

my posts?~

I'm pretty sure Tierce is town based on her interactions and reactions with players around her.
Having almost exactly the same reads as me makes me feel good about that slot too.

I think Vi has outlived me in every game we've played together. Hardly reassuring advice for me.

First there's you asking the scum team to kill you instead of Vi, and then there's you complaining that Vi outlives you.

I'd dayvig you without remorse any day of the week.

Rather disappointed in Brarity's Post 401, tbqh. That might actually be a scum slot.

Your reads mirror mine so closely it's almost unbelievable. Are you copying my test, or did you just study as hard as I did?

You didn't think Godot was too scummy before Arugula replaced in, but now that Arugula's here, he's worth switching off of me, whose wagon you really like, for what reason?

That's pretty badly worded. Another try.

If Godot wasn't too scummy, what's scummier about Arugula? Specifically, what's scummy enough to switch of my wagon, which you've been more than content with riding the whole time?

If it's shameless bandwagoning to put pressure on Arugula, why not say so? As it is, it looks like you were trying to come up with a reason for putting a L-2 vote on someone. But it ends up appearing rather hollow indeed.

Any town read I had on your slot just evaporated.

Woah Woah WOAH.

You mean you had a town read on me before but somehow one post has made that disappear?

Yes. That's exactly it.

Oh me oh my.

This is exactly what I'd expect scum to say after pointing out a "contradiction" in someone else's post. It is like secondarily reinforcing the "hey everyone, look at this scummy thing X did!" message you're already sending. You just went up even higher on the ol' scumdar.

But what is this, you are asking me...

You didn't think Godot was too scummy before Arugula replaced in, but now that Arugula's here, he's worth switching off of me

,

Yes, yes he is. And

I gave more than enough reasons in that post.

If you think I'd give out every reason as to why somepony is scum up front, especially before they make another post, then your motivations are clearly not town here.

Hey Brandi? Guess who looks for "more than enough reason to vote someone?" Scum does. Especially when hopping onto a wagon they haven't paid much attention to before, or were scared to touch earlier for fear of being called scummy for an easy hop. Such as a wagon on a newbie. They wait until something happens that feels like a smoking gun, and then over-justify their position so it doesn't look like they're voting without reason.

Unvote; Vote: Brandi

I am very,

very

happy with this vote.

Don't worry, you're still scum. I'm not going to explain to scum why voting other scum over them at the moment is alright. The reasons are quite obvious.

I mean yeah I know it probably bothers you that I've put pressure on both you and your buddy but you'll just have to deal with it, I'm afraid.

And in the wake of that moment of faked self-righteousness, here comes the false bravado that you think will make you look town.

Oh and

putting a L-2 vote on someone.

L-3, actually. Not that it matters much, I just hate misinformation.

And here's you trying to make it look like I'm purposefully spreading misinformation.

@Sudo: Do you have any relevant or helpful things to say today? Your content all game has been severely lacking. Every time you post with nothing to say I just wish you were dead. I don't really feel you are scum, just useless town.

Charlie makes a lot of "ehhhh" posts, but they don't feel scum motivated. Shmugen has moved to "meh" from "scummy";

Chamber is still not-scum, and it makes me giggle any time someone accuses him of being such.

I'd be willing to lynch DJ, Arugula, or Salamance today.
Vote stays where it is for now.

And then here are your "reads".

Rather disappointed in Brarity's Post

401

455, tbqh. That might actually be a scum slot.

Now to figure out if this is a Vi/Brandi distancing post, or just Vi trying to buddy up to Tierce.

[fluff]
I really wish I could have slipped some "character" into my recent posts. I had made it a personal goal when I signed up for this game to try and say things Rarity would say.
This heat is absolutely killing me. 89 F, no AC in this apartment.

Where are the weather ponies when you need them... [/fluff]

Why are you adding fluff tags? Charlie and Vi are fluffing without remorse, and arguably a couple other players are doing so as well. Why don't

you

feel comfortable doing it without tongue-in-cheekly informing everyone else that you're doing what you're doing?

Because you know you're guilty. And you're trying too hard to fit in.

Top 3 Scum Picks:
Salamence
Chamber
DJ Pon-3/Charlie tied for third

Top 3 Town Picks:
Trixie (fatlikepig or whatever)
Shmugen
Tierce

Reasons with these would be nice.

Mmm.

What I really need, desperately, is a town read to come along and then show me all the heaps of things I'm missing.

Here I am. Enjoy. You're welcome in advance.

unvote;
Vote: Sudo_Nym

Sudo being scum increases likelihood of Arugula being scum.

More sense.
Will try to be in-depth after some c[____________]

And what is Arugula if Sudo is town?


I am out of time for now. Hopefully I can post tomorrow.

DJ, how would Trixie faking not reading the thread ever earn her /towncred/? A large part of the rest of that post also looks very reachy.

Trixie will consider Rarity's post tomorrow, sort of tired/sleep-deprived right now!

[fatlikepig]

Dangit, totally didn't mean to put that whole quote wall in there. e.e

[fatlikepig]

Fluffydash doesn't hand out fakeclaims afaik. There were no fakeclaims in the last PonyMafia, and I slipped beautifully when claiming stuff about Discord and etc. >.> I'm fine with AruGodot's claim.

Actually, Trixie had a fakeclaim in FiA, it was Derpy Hooves, if she recalls correctly. She

was

an SK, though. It also doesn't particularly change what she thinks of Godot's claim.

Trixie also doesn't think speculating about the exact nature of the Role PMs is particularly important or useful, given that everypony really only has access to two (the sample and their own), and there's nothing that says that Rainbowdash has to be consistent with the town (or the scum ones, for that matter) flavour anyway.

Vi, thoughts on Salamence? Trixie isn't sure what to make of #549.

Rarity, do you think Arugula and DJ are buddies, or is only one of them likely to be scum?

Can somepony with more meta on Feysal tell Trixie if town-him is usually this passive?

[fatlikepig]

Hey Salamence, where

is

that usefulness you promised?

Trixie still doesn't think that Arugula would be the best lynch for today. Sala/Sudo are better options.

(Also, has anypony noticed that this game seems to have slowed down quite a lot? Trixie feels like that's more likely to happen when town isn't headed in the right direction.)

[fatlikepig]

WHy do you think that trixie?

Which part of it?

[fatlikepig]

chamber: Trixie thinks that if town is looking in the wrong direction, then scum is less likely to try and contribute/keep the momentum of the game flowing, and combined with various things like town not posting, that leads to a drop in the game speed.

Actually, she's just realised that that logic is pretty faulty, so.

Shmugen's "catch-up" post is about as underwhelming as underwhelming can be. Those aren't exactly

controversial

opinions, and not voting for either of the major wagons seems fishy (jump on whichever one gets pushed, etc).

[fatlikepig]

Salamence, given that you think Rarity and Poopykins are both scum, what reason can you find for Rarity to randomly try and bus her scumpartner, who until she posted was under practically no suspicion? Doesn't seem like you're thinking things through very clearly here, but that happens when you're being opportunistic, eh?

Trixie isn't really seeing Rarity as scum at this point. The frustration looks genuine, and she's not really following DJ's train of thought at this point. Emotional =/= scum.

[fatlikepig]

VOTE: Arugula

Poopykins vote was just for pressure/OMGUS.

If Arugula flips scum, rarity, vi, and smugen are town and DJ is scum.

That's... convenient, especially since you got on Rarity's case for using her vote in a similar way.

I know I said she is probably scum, but her/DJ arguements are pretty interesting.

Define "interesting".

Charlie, what in Equestria do "cautious", "neurotic", "emotional", etc.

mean

? What impacts do they have on whether somepony is scum or town?

Arugula, how many scum do you think there are in the game?

[fatlikepig]

okie dokie

[fatlikepig]

You know, reasons would be

lovely

, Vi, so Trixie actually has something to address

[fatlikepig]

Salamence is probably town for now; given Arugula's flip, Trixie finds it unlikely that Arugula would have pushed on Salamence if they were buddies given that bussing somepony isn't particularly helpful when you're 95% likely to be lynched.

This also makes the Rarity wagon highly suspect, considering how quickly the one on Arugula dissipated. Trixie is willing to bet her horn that at least one scum was on that wagon:

Vote Count

Rarity (6) - Feysal, DJ P0n-3, Shmugen, Tierce, salamence20, Pinkie Pie
Salamence20 (4) - fatlikepig, Arugula, Sudo_Nym, Poopykins
Sudo_Nym (2) - Vi, konowa
Shmugen (1) - Rarity
DJ P0n-3 (1) - charlie
Arugula (1) - chamber

Poopykins has been prodded
With 15 alive it takes 8 to kick somepony out of town
Deadline is August 19th, 7PM PST

Tierce is town; Salamence is probably town; Shmugen's behaviour around the Arugula wagon doesn't seem in line with being their scumbuddy. Trixie's looking at DJ and Feysal here; the former in particular given how mudsling-y some of the Rarity case got eventually.

[fatlikepig]

VOTE: Poopykins

Rarity is scum buddy, and that was a bus. Guaranteed.

This seems extremely unlikely given the way the whole Arugula wagon dissolved and went onto Rarity yesterday.

[fatlikepig]

02 Vi

03 Shmugen

04 DJ-P0n3

05 fatlikepig

06 Feysal

07 Rarity

11 Konowa
12 Sudo_Nym
13 Charlie

14 The Rufflig chamber
15 Pinkie Pie

DJ, what are the chances that three (or more, for that matter) scum would all be on a town counterwagon all the way to the lynch? Do you think Sudo and Trixie could be scum together?

Shmugen is probably town due to interactions with scum; Rarity is probably town due to being a sort of last-minute counterwagon against Arugula, Pinkie Pie is town due to Godot's push against her and Rufflig's slot remains town for now. Trixie is fairly sure that DJ is scum due to pushing so hard on the Rarity counterwagon and her weak stance change early on with regards to Godot (he looks like newbtown but he could be scum!). She doesn't have enough time to go through her interactions with Arugula right now, but there's just one thing that caught her eye:

@DJ
Top 3 Scum Picks:
Salamence - randomly doesn't want me lynched because I tend to paint him as scum, then votes me, contradictions, doesn't make sense
Chamber - refuses to give reasons for votes, people seem him as town for no reason (can someone explain why they have a townread on chamber?), generally unhelpful and fluffy
DJ Pon-3/Charlie tied for third
DJ - flip-flops reads on players, (called Godot town then scum all of a sudden, did the opposite with Tierce), Brandi's case
Charlie - useless, fluffy, sheeps, needs to die eventually

You don't need to speak about me as if you're not speaking to me, you know.

And should I not change my reads on players when new information comes to light? What the hell is the point of ever unvoting someone, if that's the case? If anything, changing one's mind is a town tell in my book. But I might be a little biased....

As for chamber, I can't see as how he can be town at this point either. But I have misread him before.

(emphasis is Trixie's own).

This looks

a lot

scum coaching to Trixie. Of course, that's not a full case at all - Trixie will hopefully get to posting one of those sooner rather than later (but performing awesome feats of magic is tiring and whatnot).

Anywho:

VOTE: DJ P0n-3

[fatlikepig]

Mod: Going to be V/LA til the 25th.

[fatlikepig]

Except Rarity, you have all the same player reads as I do. Aaaaand, you're voting me.

Show me again where that is in the How To Be A Good Townie handbook? Because I don't remember that part being in there.

Hint: You're voting me because I already have votes on me and you're hoping for a counter-wagon.

That's nice. Trixie wouldn't expect scum to push any of those reads, though, given how solid the associative tells on those players are right now, so the fact that we share those townreads is pretty much a null tell.

I went back and did some more research on Trixie.
What I found was remarkably less towny than I remember thinking earlier on.

dun dun

duuuun

That's convenient, though.

The sentences after this question are framed in a way to make me look bad. Scummy.

Yes, Trixie's fairly sure she made it quite explicit that she thought you were fencesitting on Godot.

Not to mention you are misrepresenting my stance on Godot. You seemed a little too eager to pin "scumbuddy" on someone, because at that point in the game (post 181) I hadn't *really* changed my mind about Godot just being a VI yet:

Trixie wasn't misrepresenting your stance on Godot at all, considering she was asking you why you went from reconsidering and back to Godot-town. Also convenient that you only seem to pick up this

now

when there's a wagon on Trixie but say that the post means she's "probably town" when there isn't. You even

gave

an explanation of your Godot read after you saw that post, so why has the fact that Trixie supposedly misrepped you only jumped out at you now?

Also does that last post sound like it comes from a scumbuddy?

Trixie doesn't see how telling ponies not to hammer somepony when there was nopony seriously threatening it means you aren't buddies with Godot.

Why did you answer my question with a question?

REDUCE THE QUESTION MARK AND BAM

Because his read on Arugula and whether or not his plan works are separate things

Again framed to make me look bad without actually expressly communicating your own suspicion of me.

Except that question was to do with Rarity's list of reads in which she put you and Arugula as her top scumreads, and doesn't actually have anything to do with Trixie's read on you.

First, why are you reasoning with someone whom you're voting? Only scum do that, because they're trying to convince the other person they're not scum.

Second, good job throwing out pure WIFOM about "what are the chances that three (or more, for that matter) scum would all be on a town counterwagon?". That statement is completely useless except to try to make people doubt their scum reads on you.

It wasn't wanting to reason with you so much as it was wanting a justification for why you thought that could be the case.

It's not useless at all. When Arugula was lynched, everypony on the Salamence counterwagon looked bad for it. Would a majority of the scumteam hop on the wagon given the likelihood that Arugula would be flipped early in the game? It seems highly unlikely.

Third, you're trying to feign ignorance of the number of scum with "(or more, for that matter)"! You really convinced me you're not scum! Great job!

You said that you found both Trixie and Sudo suspicious for being on the Salamence wagon for so long. That post wasn't referring to the

number of scum

, it was referring to the number of scum on the wagon. Nice try, though.

[fatlikepig]

Claim: Zecora the Zebra, VT

Trixie even breadcrumbed it (sort of) in her first post!

Although the game has just begun, Trixie's got reads just from page one! She should be a poet or something with that sort of rhyming ability.

[fatlikepig]

And Shmugen keeps his streak alive of voting for the largest wagon without having any reads of his own.

I don't recall you saying anything about Shmugen before this.

Your point being? Hey, you know that thing you said about phrasing posts so that they make people look bad being scummy?

And hey, you know that thing you said about

pure WIFOM

? How about saying "I wouldn't do that as scum" when you have no meta as a result of playing on an alt?

[fatlikepig]

Look at your entire post just there. It adds nothing to the game but trying to make me look bad and hypocritical.

Yes. That tends to happen when Trixie's calling somepony out for hypocrisy.

Playing as an alt and not having prior meta has absolutely nothing to do with saying "I wouldn't do something so obviously bad as scum because nobody would."

Either is completely WIFOM. And, in any case, Trixie doesn't think that the sort of stance you took towards the Godot/Arugula wagon is an uncommon one for scum to take. It's not a good one, by any means, but it's never exactly one that is consciously made, and given that Trixie can't get any meta on you, she has no idea whether or not scum-you would make that mistake.

[fatlikepig]

Or putting it another way - is anyone here still alive who was also in the previous game who would like to point out how Great and Powerful Towniful Trixie was in that game, and isn't even close to approaching the horizon of the borderline to that in this game? (Yes, I know Trixie was an SK in that game. They're supposed to look Town.)

That game was an anomaly, really, in part due to the amount of time that Trixie had (you'll remember, no doubt, the drop in activity level after Day 2 or something). She'll give you that her play in this game has been god-awful, though.

Konowa, explain on Shmu and Charlie?

[fatlikepig]

Rufflig, what do you think of Vi in light of what you posted in 1129?

You know, Vi, you're playing very differently to the other pony game. Trixie seems to remember you pushing far harder than this on your scumreads. What gives?

[fatlikepig]

I wholeheartedly agree.
UNVOTE: DJ P0n-3
VOTE: Sudo_Nym

Why are you agreeing with one of your scumreads?

[fatlikepig]

I wholeheartedly agree.
UNVOTE: DJ P0n-3
VOTE: Sudo_Nym

Why are you agreeing with one of your scumreads?

I am?

Alright, well, how do you feel about being on a wagon which was essentially started by your strongest scumread? Shouldn't there be alarm bells going off here?

Also, holy speedwagon Mare-Do-Well! Trixie's uncomfortable with this wagon given that she doesn't think any of Sudo's posts are necessarily scummy, there just aren't very many of them. It's a shot in the dark, really.

[fatlikepig]

Charlie, what would Sudo flipping scum tell you about DJ, then?

Shmugen's content is... incredibly underwhelming considering it said nothing about anything. Trixie hopes that isn't the extent of your digging, Shmu, because it isn't impressive.

Actually, Trixie went back and looked at Shmu's ISO because of these votes and found that #831 wasn't as late on the Arugula wagon as she thought it was (it was the second vote, in fact), so it didn't really cement the wagon in place like she thought it did. That means that both Shmu and Arugula being scum is a possibility, so Trixie will rescind her "guaranteed town" read on him for now. She would probably still prefer a DJ lynch, though, and lurker lynches aren't all that great.

Shmu, who do you want to lynch today?

[fatlikepig]

Additionally, he was in Arugula's "top 3 town picks" in post 530 and I highly doubt scum under that much suspicion would put a scum buddy in his top 3 town picks.

How do you reconcile this with your scumread on Trixie?

IMO, why shmugen is town:

I can handle puns if I have to.

VOTE: ProsecutorGodot

Of all the people who brought up the Discord-aligned 'Oh, I'm town, hooray!' argument, Godot's felt the most forced.

FatlikeTrixie, if you actually drew Trixie again, I swear to Celestia...

Actually, Trixie could see scum making those sorts of votes; the "I'm town hooray!" probably wasn't a tell that scum would have seen as being particularly dangerous, so distancing is entirely possible.

[fatlikepig]

Rufflig's recent posts are looking super town. Trixie would like to see Charlie respond to #1214, because it's reasonably good.

[fatlikepig]

Can't really contribute much for the next few days; sort of overwhelmed with work at the moment unfortunately. Trixie will be around, but don't expect much (inb4 Vi says something about that not changing anything etc etc)

But I see you continue to grasp at straws to try to convince people you're town.

Trixie doesn't see how it's "grasping at straws" to see the fact that you're trying to have it both ways by saying that Arugula wouldn't put Shmu in his townreads but that he would put Trixie in them.

Not sure about the Charlie wagon - he doesn't seem to be playing at all like he was in the last pony game where he was scum, although Rufflig's 1240 is good. Trixie doesn't think she would support a Charlie wagon today.

[fatlikepig]

Something happened to me last Night. If anyone wants to claim anything, be my guest. As in, right away.

Trixie doesn't think this looks like a scum reaction at all. She probably won't be interested in lynching DJ today.

VOTE: Shmugen

Still not interested in lynching Charlie, and Trixie would like Vi explain why Katsuki could be scum, because she isn't really seeing it.

[fatlikepig]

Aside from Godot's attempt to flailingly attack Katsuki - which resulted in basically the only time during this game that Katsuki has played seriously - what gives you the impression that Katsuki is Town?

Katsuki doesn't generally post much, right? This is a thing Trixie has heard.

The Godot interaction is vital because Trixie really wouldn't trust scum - newb or not - to try and bus their partners when they're under that amount of pressure (it doesn't really achieve anything, looks like flailing anyway, etc etc). Aside from that, Trixie thinks that Katsuki is probably null, Godot's push

really

doesn't look like it comes from a scumbuddy.

[fatlikepig]

Understood, Feysal. A full reread is desperately in order if I'm going to do anything other than roll over and die.

So uh, why

hasn't

this happened yet?

@Vi: Trixie realises that, it was more of a broader question to make sure she wasn't using inaccurate meta to judge Katsuki's alignment. That said, Trixie doesn't think that not playing seriously is really all that scummy in any case.

[fatlikepig]

So, Feysal, do you actually plan on elaborating on why Charlie and Trixie could are scum using something other than PoE? It seems quite dodgy, especially given the weakness of your Vi and Konowa reads.

[fatlikepig]

So, Feysal, do you actually plan on elaborating on why Charlie and Trixie could are scum using something other than PoE? It seems quite dodgy, especially given the weakness of your Vi and Konowa reads.

(How did I miss seeing this post?)
Trixie, PoE does not need further elaboration. That's why it's called a PoE.
By the way are you planning to go on a diet? Coz you're looking quite pudgy today. And pudge rhymes with fudge.

It seems a little strange to be using PoE when you have two very weak town reads, doesn't it?

[fatlikepig]

I looked at what the context was, and discovered it was in response to you suggesting a team of Salamence, Godot and Poopykins.

Trixie didn't really think that two scum would try the same little WIFOM trick.

Katsuki why so OMGUS?

[fatlikepig]

Wait, why does this Vi wagon exist again?

[fatlikepig]

The point is that Poopykins turned that argument into a case against me D1.

Yes, and it was an incredibly weak argument that probably would have never gotten you lynched. Scum make those plays all the time.

[fatlikepig]

04 DJ-P0n3

05 fatlikepig

06 Feysal

07 Rarity
11 Konowa

13 Charlie

15 Katsuki

Charlie, Feysal or DJ today. Not likely to support a DJ lynch today because of the Rarity reaction yesterday and because a Vi kill doesn't particularly make sense if DJ is scum right now (same with Konowa, but he's town anyway).

Feysal, why was it that when you did your PoE analysis yesterday that you picked Trixie over Charlie?

[fatlikepig]

Massclaim is probably a good idea.

Trixie is still Zecora, by the way, so yeah.

[fatlikepig]

If we mislynch today, we're probably in lylo tomorrow. Massclaiming today means forcing scum to take a huge risk if they want to fakeclaim.

[fatlikepig]

If we mislynch today, we're probably in lylo tomorrow. Massclaiming today means forcing scum to take a huge risk if they want to fakeclaim.

I meant elaborate on your role, some flavor, more than just "Zecora" ?

Trixie is Zecora, The Zebra Pony, VT. Her role pm talks about how Zecora finds life slightly worse under Discord, but doesn't really care. She has also lost all of her powers for some reason, so she's just a VT.

[fatlikepig]

Oh Feysal, did you ISO everyone before you did that PoE list thing, or was that off the top of your head?

[fatlikepig]

But I did literally just look at the dates on all of trixie's posts, and it has gone from "multiple posts per day" to "one post every 2 to 4 days".

Well, that's just patently untrue.

This doesn't really account for the "awwww shit what if Konowa is scum" chance, which I feel is a distinct possibility given the Vi kill as well.

Why? Vi never thought Konowa was scum as far as Trixie can see, so surely this goes the other way?

[fatlikepig]

I'll ISO myself to recollect whatever I've said. I need the muffins. Then maybe I'll have some idea of what I'm doing.

Wait, so you don't have a clear idea of the things you've said this game? Would your reads/views change depending on what you find in your self-ISO?

Discord isn't interested in hunting books, so fhats why im vanilla.

Trixie doesn't get this at all. :/

[fatlikepig]

My claim is that I am not a pony (nor a unicorn, nor a pegasus, nor any kind of equestrian mammal for that matter).

Can you guess?

A fish?

Trixie, why aren't you voting anyone? Who do you suspect?

As Trixie said at the beginning of the day, either Charlie or Feysal. Trixie's leaning heavily towards Charlie at the moment, but wants to get the massclaim out of the way first.

[fatlikepig]

Additionally, "as Trixie already said at the start of the day" makes me think you had to go back and look to see what your "opinions" were at the moment, because you've changed them around so much you have to make sure to look at your own posts to keep track.

Stop reaching.

[fatlikepig]

You know it is.

There's a huge leap between referring back to Trixie's original reads at the start of today and it meaning that she doesn't have a clear idea of what her own reads are.

[fatlikepig]

Katsuki needs to claim.

[fatlikepig]

I don't remember why I am voting Feysal.
I actually got around to reading this wall by our DJ.
It's boring.

Isn't that incredibly convenient.

[fatlikepig]

Also, DJ does have a good point about Konowa and the scum's RVs. It's WIFOM, but it seems fairly reasonable.

Charlie, do you have a clear idea of your reads this game? Because Trixie doesn't think you do.

V/LA Oct 1-(2?) due to family stuff, unfortunately.

[fatlikepig]

What conclusions do you draw from the links you posted in #1475, Charlie?

[fatlikepig]

Katsuki's replacement pretty much makes her 110%-conftown in Trixie's eyes.

Overall, I think it's two of:

Trixie
Feysal
Konowa

So Charlie, why is Feysal scum again?

Feysal has almost 1/3 of the posts of the Mod herself. Is there any reason we haven't power-lynched him yet? I assume if there is I would catch it in my read but I wanted that out of the way early if there was an obv-reason.

No obvious reason, though we did lynch two other lurkers (Shmu and Sudo) and they flipped town, so. :/

[fatlikepig]

Charlie don't ignore Trixie.

[fatlikepig]

I didn't forget. The politically correct answer is someone has got to be otherwise the game wouldn't exist. The answer you may or may not be interested in is because he's in the list.

Excellent. So how exactly did you forget why you voted for him, again?

Why? Please elaborate.

If there was anything that made Trixie think that Katsuki /could/ be scum, it was the fact that he was pretty much power-lurking through the entire game. If he were scum, and that was his strategy, then he had no reason to replace out at this particular moment. It seems more town-motivated than it does scum-motivated.

[fatlikepig]

Well then.

Trixie is willing to hammer.

So she will.

VOTE: Charlie

Hooves crossed!

[fatlikepig]

So right now I feel that Trixie is definitely scum.

Do explain (or is this another PoE thing?)

From Trixie's point of view, by PoE, Feysal is definitely scum and one of DJ/Konowa is probably also scum. Knowing that Charlie is town, Feysal's "I can't decide who I want to vote for" thing yesterday seems like opportunism. It seems incredibly unlikely to Trixie that

none of the scum

were on the Arugula wagon.

[fatlikepig]

Who do you think the scum team is, Brandi?

[fatlikepig]

RD, can we prod Konowa please?

Because of the way you hammered yesterday

Why was Trixie's hammer scummy?

oh and Trixie, I was thinking

you/konowa
you/feysal


and are we so certain that there are even 4 total scum in this game? Who is it that insisted there are 4 scums?

So, dealing with the suggestion you made in 1537 and ignoring Feysal for a little bit here, that would mean that you're suggesting that scum killed MoI for WIFOM when MoI had townreads on Konowa and Trixie and was

clearly

going to go after Feysal when he found out that Charlie was town. Trixie doesn't think that's the simplest explanation here.

Konowa and Trixie need to give their opinions on my vote and Feysal's reaction.

Could care less about the vote given that Trixie thinks Feysal is probably scum anyway. Feysal's attack on DJ and then his retreat after he realised no-one would support that wagon at this stage is scummy.

[fatlikepig]

Before I respond to anything, I want Feysal to address why he believes this is LYLO.

People /have/ been assuming there are four scum before today, you know (Brandi and MoI come to mind). Why are you just raising this now?

[fatlikepig]

If you were hammered right now and had a Vengekill, who would you use it on, and why?
Also, same question again, but Dayvig instead of Vengekill.

Feysal.

I’m having a hard time believing there would be four scum, with a cop only being able to find three out of the four.

They're only able to detect three scum because of flavour. Salamence was The Cutie Mark Crusaders,

Idol

Cop. Since the CMC is made up of Apple Bloom (-> Applejack), Sweetie Belle (->Rarity) and Scootaloo (->RD), they can only detect three names.

[fatlikepig]

Im not voting Feysal because while I dont believe this is LYLO, yes I might be wrong and dont want to hand scum possible quick hammer.

Im not the best at setup speculation so im not willing to bet on it, however im not also appesling to fear like Feysal did.

This seems contradictory, given that Feysal has said similar things with regards to why he thought DJ's vote was a bad idea.

[fatlikepig]

Vote Count

Not Voting (5) - fatlikepig, Feysal, Konowa, Rarity, DJ P0n-3

With 5 alive it takes 3 to kick somepony out of town
Deadline is October 20th, 5PM PST

I will be out of town for the majority of this weekend

So, Konowa, how's that post you were going to make coming along? Because you're running short on time here.

[fatlikepig]

Wow, Trixie, randomly quoted the votecount for some reason. o.o

Ach, that sucks. D: I say we hold off on voting til the replacement gets a hold on the game.

[fatlikepig]

Although actually, Konowa does seem to just be ignoring this game now, which goes towards him being scum.

Is anyone actually /opposed/ to lynching Konowa at this point?

[fatlikepig]

Feysal's town and you are not allowed to lynch him.

Do explain.

Rarity-scum paranoia shouldn't really be entertained at this point, given that it makes a lot less sense than both Feysal-scum and Konowa-scum.

[fatlikepig]

I can read Feysal. I have read Feysal. He is town. Lynching townies is not allowed.

Trixie was hoping for something more than just "He's town because he's town."

What do you think of Konowa's votes D1?

[fatlikepig]

I'm at work at the moment so I can not fully flesh out Feysal D1 regarding Godot/Arugula but if you read you will notice a complete flip in his thoughts when he put Arugula at L-2 compared to what he was saying earlier (part of it is buying the claim).

This is a decent point that Feysal should probably answer.

As for the other two, they are respectively a non-issue ("VT claims aren't scummy" =/= "the flavour doesn't work out) and the third isn't entirely incongruous given that he was convinced that Rarity was scum-hitching-on-a-wagon at that point.

Ugh, it's weird how Trixie's managed to go from having Feysal as being 110%-confscum to thinking Konowa should be today's lynch. Something still doesn't feel right about the all-town Arugula wagon, and Feysal's vote is actually quite conveniently placed for scum on that wagon.

She should probably go back and reread.

[fatlikepig]

I don't see why Arugula is calling him Trixie and then also adding his real username after. This feels weird. Like something that got planned in a scum QT (daytalk seems plausible enough here for a 3-man scum team.)

What exactly is the scum motivation behind that?

[fatlikepig]

I also don't see how Konowa's lurking is supposed to fit "lategame scum" when he's been one of the two lined up lynches and hasn't really done much to try and change that.

Because lurking is less likely to get you lynched than addressing issues and screwing it up? It's not /necessarily/ scum-motivated, of course, but given that Konowa's been under a lot of pressure today, it's not entirely unlikely that he's just hoping the wagon deflects off of him.

[fatlikepig]

Honestly, I thought Trixie was scum until I started wagon analysis. I WIFOM'ed myself out of the vote.
Vote: fatlikepig

Oh okay. Self-preservation really is an awkward issue, isn't it?

Deadline's up and Trixie doesn't feel like self-voting.

VOTE: Konowa

[fatlikepig]

Ooooooh boy. In before Nightkill WIFOM!

Pretty close to 100% sure it's Feysal right now. Not going to go back on my DJ townread, especially since there's no reason to at this point.

[fatlikepig]

Because him being alive also leads to Nightkill WIFOM as to why Trixie-scum would leave him alive if she knew that she'd get autolynched for it. That's my guess, anyway.

I'll have to look over Feysal this afternoon. Long story short, though, it comes down to the improbability of the Arugula wagon being all-town and Feysal's vote on that wagon, which looks very convenient for scum getting a last-minute bus on their partner.

I'll write out an actual summary when I get the time, though.

[fatlikepig]

Let me address the nightkill first. As it stands, the CES-kill thoroughly implicates me as being the last remaining scum and leaves you (DJ) alive - you could pretty much go either way as far as the lynch kills, and with CES dead you're more in favour of lynching me. Let's consider the other possibility, where you die instead of CES, which leaves the question of why I would leave him alive when I'm supposed to be scum. That ought to throw doubt on any scumread - I appreciate that CES was pretty firm on thinking that I was scum, but when a situation like that arises, I think most people would have to question their reads.

In that light, I think that killing CES was probably the less risky option. As you say, you don't really trust either of us, so CES dying would probably sway you towards lynching me, where there's a chance that CES could go back on his reads upon not dying. I'm not entirely sure that had he been left alive, I would have been auto-lynched today.

I'd also like to note that the Vi and MoI kills - specifically their timing - don't make much sense with me at scum. The day before Vi died, she was beginning to go back on me being scum because of analysis of the Salamence-wagon. MoI was also killed the night he replaced in when he had quite clearly stipulated that he had a townread on me. Why would I kill one of the only people in the game who actually had a townread on me if I were scum? It doesn't make sense (interestingly, MoI was also suspicious of Feysal). You can say WIFOM, but there's really no need for scum to make that sort of play, especially when I've been suspected for pretty much the whole game.

As for the D1 wagon, I want to reiterate: Arugula and BBMolla, as far as I'm concerned, seem like pretty competent players. Now that we know there are only 3 scum, it seems ludicrous to me to suggest that three scum would sit on the

same

town counterwagon together, especially when it became increasingly obvious that Arugula was going to be lynched.

As for Feysal, there's not much that I can point to and say, "Look, scum!" besides the timing of his vote on Arugula D1 and the improbability of an all-town wagon of that size. I don't think PbPA would be overly productive right now, in any case.

I'm not going to entertain the idea of you being scum, so I'm just going to vote now and hope that you make the right decision.

VOTE: Feysal

[fatlikepig]

So, I had one correct read all game.

And I let go of it.

Woop de doo.

gg DJ, you had my hopes all worked up there. D: