[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/ext/alfredoramos/seometadata/event/listener.php on line 114: Undefined array key 4405717 [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/ext/alfredoramos/seometadata/event/listener.php on line 114: Trying to access array offset on value of type null Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Legacy (Game Over) - Mafiascum.net
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Post #913 (isolation #0) » Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:18 am
Postby mastin2 »
Whoah. Cool.
VOTE: Khan Man.
Policy.
Anyway, I'm typing this up in the slim chance I'm not NK'd after having replaced in. (I have, like, an 80% death rate for this kind of situation. )
Nero:
You've offered to hydra with me before, so why don't we effectively hydra in this game? I'm town, I think you're town, so tell me who's scum and who's town, so I can tell the town why.
Didn't really do much reading, just enough to get the above read, since Nero's who I see as the strongest scumhunter in this game, and I needed to see him being town.
/going to make a QT. Since I slacked off on reading overnight (for obvious reasons), I need to do so.
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Post #919 (isolation #1) » Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:25 am
Postby mastin2 »
AP wrote:Ah, Mastin, my replacement buddy! How are things?
Pretty good, actually. I was pleasantly surprised to learn I wasn't dead, but hey, the scum are going to wish I was.
Anyway, I'd love to hear your reads as well. You're not as strong a scumhunter to me as Nero is, but I still respect you, and would love to know who you think is scum and why.
Like, say, Yates. Is he scum? His post looks like scum.
I'd also love reads from Benmage and Tammy. I consider Nero a stronger scumhunter than them, but I still think they're some of the strongest players in this game. Between the four of you (Nero, AP, Benmage, and Tammy), you can give me a great head-start on the game.
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Post #921 (isolation #2) » Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:31 am
Postby mastin2 »
PV wrote:You scum this game?
If I were, I wouldn't have expected to be dead by morning, now, would I?
Melmond - 11 (Tammy,
zabriel
, Kublai Khan, Nero Cain, BloodCovenant, Benmage,
Yates
, AngryPigeon,
snifit, rapidcanyon
, mykonian)
The bolded catch my eye as looking like scum by gut, and the italicised look like potential candidates. I read the first few pages, so I know BC's town, I've said Nero's town, and I actually think Khan's town as well. I have nothing on Tammy or Benmage, but regardless of their alignment, their feedback is valuable to me. Same for AP. And I'll admit a strong unfamiliarity with myk, but just from Yates, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for the moment.
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Post #924 (isolation #3) » Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:37 am
Postby mastin2 »
Derp. Got jason and BC mixed up. I forget what (if any) read I had on BC. Mighta still been town, but I'd need a good solid readthrough of the game to see for sure.
Since I'm on a desktop, I need to switch to my laptop; be back soon.
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Post #938 (isolation #6) » Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:08 am
Postby mastin2 »
As for zabriel, it's entirely gut. Like I said, I haven't read the game, yet. Right now, I've got three in limbo (AP, Benmage, and Tammy) who I'm purposefully holding back on getting a read on for the moment, and six names to look at:
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Post #940 (isolation #7) » Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:10 am
Postby mastin2 »
AP wrote:That could easily be a 'slip'
Could be? Yes, it could. Actually is? I sincerely doubt it. Occam's razor suggests he simply got two people mixed up, and simple logic dictates it's doubtful he mixed up a scumbuddy with someone who's not a scumbuddy.
Anyway, right now if you couldn't tell, I'm skimming isos to get a better hold of the game.
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Post #946 (isolation #8) » Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:24 am
Postby mastin2 »
By the way, preliminary scumteam of Kise, Snifit, Zabriel, with one of/both of Benmage/RC (depending on 4/5 scum) is what I've got so far. Admittedly, the only one of 'em I've iso'd is Kise (and he's only mildly scummy), with the rest by PoE and sheeping Nero's last scum list, as far as I could tell.
Also, kinda sorta think AP's outta limbo and into town, 'cause I did an iso of IaI. Wasn't much, but what little was there looked town, which'd make AP in that same slot town.
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Post #956 (isolation #9) » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:01 am
Postby mastin2 »
AP wrote:But seriously, why did you list Yates as possible scum, VOTE HIM, and then not include him in your formal scum list and then unvote him.
Because my Yates scumread was entirely off of his question to myk, and I was not only given a reason that wasn't scummy, but also given a strong reason to reverse my read--AV's vote on him.
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Post #959 (isolation #11) » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:08 am
Postby mastin2 »
snifit wrote:I'm conflicted on rapidcanyon. I'm getting scumvibes I can't put my finger on but his #160 is a solid post, trying to get into other players' heads. I guess I have to say town but I'll be looking for more posts from him. Interesting that he threw a vote in the same direction I did, and as a bonus he could even elaborate what bothered him about Shahrizai. Neat! Yeah town for now.
Can't get much more obvious than this that these two are scumbuddies.
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Post #967 (isolation #13) » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:20 am
Postby mastin2 »
tl;dr, lynch all liars--snifit's scum.
You could also argue lynch all lurkers; he has the lowest post count of living players, other than myk and myself, who're both replacements. He's been here the whole game.
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Post #968 (isolation #14) » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:22 am
Postby mastin2 »
snifit wrote:Not sure what you're getting at.
You were justifying your Cyber vote.
You were giving reasons for the vote.
And those reasons sounded plenty serious to me.
You're claiming they weren't. You're claiming your vote wasn't serious, but yet your words and need to justify having voted Cyber suggested it was. Bluntly, you've been caught in a lie.
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Post #974 (isolation #15) » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:29 am
Postby mastin2 »
In post 326, snifit wrote:Cybertronix keeps showing up to promise more content later and getting involved in current (mostly useless) discussion. Pretty safe activity for scum.
Calling Cyber scum.
In post 618, snifit wrote:Getting a town vibe from BloodCovenant's most recent posting, so I might to rethink my vote. Not sure if I want Cyber or Melmond instead.
Calling Cyber/Mel scum.
In post 765, snifit wrote:Haven't had time to review Cybertronix and Melmond but I see Cyber's wagon is smaller so
Vote: Cybertronix
Votes Cyber.
In post 817, snifit wrote:The jester stuff is null, but at least he prefers Cyber to AP.
Cyber's ISO...really? It's all promises to catch up and whining that people shouldn't be voting for him. Good Lord.
Ugh. My desire to purge Cyber out of the game is strong but my read on Melmond is stronger.
Pushing a Cyber lynch (better than AP), says Cyber's iso is junk, says he wants Cyber dead.
And snifit's claiming the vote on him wasn't serious. It was plenty serious. Both before, and after, he was pushing it.
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Post #976 (isolation #16) » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:31 am
Postby mastin2 »
AP wrote:I love how Mastin is ignoring RC's existence now that he has votes.
It's not that I'm ignoring RC. He's still almost certainly scum.
It's just that snifit
is
scum. He's caught in a lie, but beyond that, he's also been lurking the whole game, and if that wasn't enough, his content is junk and he's contributed virtually nothing of use.
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Post #979 (isolation #17) » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:40 am
Postby mastin2 »
In post 961, snifit wrote:Do you honestly think that was a serious vote?
In post 972, snifit wrote:I knew I wanted to vote Cyber or Melmond. Just had to check which one I wanted to vote more.
These two statements are mutually exclusive.
He can't have wanted to vote Cyber/Mel, checking to see which he wanted to vote more, and followed it through with a vote, and have it not have been serious. The vote was premeditated, planned out in advance. I've quoted the evidence showing his thoughts before AND after the vote that confirm he meant it at the time.
And yet, now he's trying to claim that it wasn't serious?
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Post #981 (isolation #18) » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:43 am
Postby mastin2 »
AP, aside from gambits, what's the town motivation for lying?
...Yeah, I'm coming up empty.
AP, what's the scum motivation for lying?
...Do I need to repeat that statement for you?
There's a reason LAL is enforced.
And you're also ignoring the other pieces of the case.
Snifit's not just scum because he's caught in a lie. His iso is crap, his content is junk, he's been lurking the entire game, and his stances have been highly scumtastic, with opportunism abounding. You're ignoring that part of the case.
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Post #986 (isolation #19) » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:54 am
Postby mastin2 »
AP wrote:Ok, if Snifit's lack of content is scummy, why is Amrun town?
Look at the difference.
Amrun was struggling just to keep in the game, and ultimately failed to do so. She was trying, and failing, to keep up. However, despite her failing efforts, she tried to contribute original thoughts to the game. I liked her push on zabriel, for instance.
snifit's lack of content is halfhearted. He was keeping up, but not trying to put any real effort into the game. In his lackluster content, his posts were highly unoriginal and contributed nothing really unique, with what little content he has being carefully worded and allowing him to back out if need be.
To summarize, it's tone and effort/intent/motive/general mindset. Amrun's posts were those of a stressed townie, snifit's have been that of a relaxed scum.
And, yes, there's motive as scum to lie. It's a
fundamental part of being scum
--to deceive the town, to mislead and misguide them by manipulation and distortion of the facts.
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Post #996 (isolation #21) » Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:24 am
Postby mastin2 »
Myk, I think you're misreading what I'm saying.
I'm not saying he shifted a non-serious vote into a serious vote.
I'm saying he's lying about it ever having been not serious. The evidence is right there, in his iso. Both before, where he lays out Cyber-suspicion, and after, where he justifies his cyber-suspicion. He provided reasons before the vote. He provided reasons during the vote. He provided reasons after the vote. That's plenty serious.
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Post #1001 (isolation #22) » Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:42 am
Postby mastin2 »
Myk, you know me better than that.
I don't BS as scum when it comes to suspects. (Maybe, say, when trying to come up with an explanation of why my predecessor acted the way they did, sure; I'll BS that. But suspects? Never; I believe every word, else I'd not say it.)
I really fail to see how you can't see the point about snifit. He's claimed his vote wasn't serious. All evidence points to it having been serious. His posts before suggested it would be serious. His posts after support it having been serious. That's not him having turned something non-serious into serious, that's him having always been serious with the vote, and yet, he claims otherwise. Hence, the lie. (Or backtrack, if you'd prefer--see below.)
The bolded catch my eye as looking like scum by gut, and the italicised look like potential candidates.
Yes, he was only a potential candidate at the time, but his position and timing on the wagon is highly suspect.
In post 946, mastin2 wrote:By the way, preliminary scumteam of Kise, Snifit, Zabriel, with one of/both of Benmage/RC (depending on 4/5 scum) is what I've got so far, by PoE and sheeping Nero.
snifit wrote:I'm conflicted on rapidcanyon. I'm getting scumvibes I can't put my finger on but his #160 is a solid post, trying to get into other players' heads. I guess I have to say town but I'll be looking for more posts from him. Interesting that he threw a vote in the same direction I did, and as a bonus he could even elaborate what bothered him about Shahrizai. Neat! Yeah town for now.
Can't get much more obvious than this that these two are scumbuddies.
In post 967, mastin2 wrote:You could also argue lynch all lurkers; snifit has the lowest post count of living players, other than myk and myself, who're both replacements. He's been here the whole game.
In post 981, mastin2 wrote:Snifit's not just scum because he's caught in a lie. His iso is crap, his content is junk, he's been lurking the entire game, and his stances have been highly scumtastic, with opportunism abounding. You're ignoring that part of the case.
Admittedly, this is more of a "tell, not show" case, when one of the basis for being a good writer is "show, don't tell".
So while I don't go into great detail, I do elaborate, via a comparison to Amrun.
AP wrote:Ok, if Snifit's lack of content is scummy, why is Amrun town?
Look at the difference.
Amrun was struggling just to keep in the game, and ultimately failed to do so. She was trying, and failing, to keep up. However, despite her failing efforts, she tried to contribute original thoughts to the game. I liked her push on zabriel, for instance.
snifit's lack of content is halfhearted. He was keeping up, but not trying to put any real effort into the game. In his lackluster content, his posts were highly unoriginal and contributed nothing really unique, with what little content he has being carefully worded and allowing him to back out if need be.
To summarize, it's tone and
effort
/intent/motive/
general mindset
. Amrun's posts were those of a stressed townie, snifit's have been that of a relaxed scum.
The only way my case could be stronger is if I backed it up with quotes--yet snifit's iso is so short that you can do it yourself and see most of these points in crystal clarity.
Look at snifit now, for instance. He's not defended himself. He's not really posted at all. It's been others coming to his defense--he's letting others do his work for him. That kind of lurking, that kind of strategic inactivity, is the trademark of scum.
(That said, two others on my scum-list voting snifit does not give me a warm fuzzy feeling. )
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Post #1036 (isolation #24) » Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:57 am
Postby mastin2 »
AP wrote:If Snifit flips town (mystically by some form of voodoo magic) what would your reads on Mastin, me and RC be?
I can answer this, minus the part on me. If for some reason snifit were town, you'd go from being slightly-town to super-mega-town.
RC would go from being probably-scum into almost-certainly-scum as well, and my reads on both zabriel and Kise would be reinforced, thanks to their having jumped on the snifit wagon.
Khan wrote:I'm really weirded out that you're calling me a town-read and overall ignoring me.
Well, your iso looked pretty town, Nero had you as town, and your iso kinda reminded me of that Little Italy game you were in recently where you got mislynched. (Admittedly, I only skimmed that game, yet the similarity was there.) That said, I honestly have no way to gauge your abilities as town. I respect you as a player, but I don't have any reason to respect you as a scumhunter, if that makes sense.
It feels like a attempt to railroad a lynch.
Blatantly so. I'm going to force the snifit lynch through. If he flips scum, great; I have reassurance that I'm at least partially on the right track. If he flips town, I get mislynched on day three or four and the scum win because of town idiocy. (/1377 ref)
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Post #1047 (isolation #26) » Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:29 am
Postby mastin2 »
snifit wrote:No interest in whether Nero is town or not, though?
The first thing I did when I offered to replace was do a Nero iso. I knew he was town instantly just from skimming.
benmage wrote:more odd that he thinks Nero is a good scumhunter.
The reason Nero offered to hydra with me before is that his scumdar's better than mine, but his power of persuasion is weaker than mine. Nero's the best person in this playerlist at catching scum; I've yet to see him in a game where this hasn't proven true. Unfortunately, he's one of the weaker players when it comes to convincing others he's right. So in that regard, and in that regard only, is he not a good scumhunter.
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Post #1049 (isolation #27) » Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:34 am
Postby mastin2 »
Also, should be noted that I'm well aware that--despite his skill--Nero's reads are not a holy bible of scumhunting. His reads are a very good starting point, but they lack refinement. This is pretty evident in my reads already, in that while my reads started as sheeping him, I'm forming my own conclusions based off of what I'm reading. (For instance, he has AP as a suspect; AP's town. He has PV as town; I'm considering taking a look at him for possible scum.)
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Post #1071 (isolation #30) » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:39 am
Postby mastin2 »
myk wrote:And uhm, I think I'd prefer snifit over tammy.
You have interest in a snifit lynch? Your words say otherwise.
(Yes, I know, comparing snifit to tammy != preferring snifit as a lynch, but it implies as much when you don't offer alternatives to both--such as, say, Kise, RC, Zab...*)
*In a sentence, myk: who
would
you prefer to lynch?
Also, before I forget:
Mod:
Note that I'm never available Sundays thanks to Round Dancing, and while I can theoretically make time for ms.net on Saturday, it's tedious for me to do so, and I prefer not to, especially with my Focused Playing theory. (See the MD thread.) And if that wasn't enough, I know for a fact that this weekend will be MUCH busier than normal, so even if I wanted to, it'd me far more difficult than most weeks, due to how much I have to do tomorrow.
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Post #1073 (isolation #31) » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:52 am
Postby mastin2 »
And I'm not getting lynched. Nightkilled, sure, lynched, never.
But even if a lynch on me were possible, that'd still just be one of his suspects--in a game of this size, there's going to be 4-5 scum, so he should have 3-4 suspects other than myself.
Myk, bluntly, I'm town.
Zoro's town thanks to AV.
Aco's town.
Nero's town.
That leaves pidgey, zab, and kise in your suspect list. Kise is being wagoned, the others aren't.
[hr90[/hr]
myk wrote:While mastin is playing confidently, he's at the same time planning how to go on in the next days.
Nah. My plan's to get NK'd.
And as you yourself know, I never intend to outlive my scumbuddies, anyway. I have a 0% winrate as last-remaining-scum.
But you're right on one point--Tammy's meta reason for clearing me isn't very good. In multiscum games, my scumplay is actually at its closest to my townplay as it can be.
/caught up. The fact that most of my scumreads have scumreads on the other scumreads is really unnerving me, so I guess I need to read the game.
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Post #1151 (isolation #35) » Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:36 am
Postby mastin2 »
In post 1150, pidgey wrote:I was catchin up to this game in the weekend but some shit came up and i couldnt finish, but i will today at night.
Im pretty confident just from a skim that thead looks town, at least. AP also looks like id imagine him to be as town. The rest ill talk about when im done YEAAAAAH
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Post #1153 (isolation #36) » Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:48 am
Postby mastin2 »
Can do.
Why don't you have any more reads than those two?
If you do, why are you waiting until you've read everything to post them? Why not post what you've got, no matter how bad they may seem?
Why don't you have a vote?
What about this game is making it hard to get into?
I mean, I replaced in at the same time as you, slacked off on reading overnight, and yet STILL got going fairly good despite not having read most of d1.
...Speaking of which, why didn't you read overnight? I mean, *I* didn't because I have an 80% deathrate for this kind of situation. I can't imagine you have that excuse. You shouldn't have slacked off, but you're implying you did.
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Post #1182 (isolation #38) » Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:02 am
Postby mastin2 »
Khan wrote:And I've been scum in 8/9 games with mastin2.
Pretty sure that we haven't had nine previous games together. Maybe nine total, including this one, but I seem to recall in SG-1 that I did the numbers and it was 6/6, maybe 7/7. Add in the next game, and that's either 6/7 or 7/8. Not 8/9.
Need to double-check to make sure, but this seems like a scumslip.
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Post #1202 (isolation #41) » Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:47 am
Postby mastin2 »
Also, people've probably guessed, am a bit busy at the moment. Am trying to play, but am juggling three or four things at once; kinda hard to strike that balance. Extra difficult thanks to not getting much sleep last night and what little I did get not being restful. So in a word, at the moment, my head's not much in the game. Thinking two scum not voting, by the way, and remaining 2-3 scattered throughout the votecounts. 1-2 of them in the three (2) wagons (guess is on Kise and one of--but not both of--Benmage and ThAd), with the remaining scum on Benmage. Don't think it's a scumdriven wagon, but if Benmage is town, it has one scum on it.
Basically, looking at RC and one of PV/Tammy, one of Benmage/ThAd, Kise, and one of Zabriel/pidgey as a scumteam, off of the vc itself. No clue how well this stacks up against interactions with these individuals, though. Like I said before, lots of names in there seem to be suspicious of a lot of other names in said list, and I haven't crossreferenced things yet. Need to do that when I'm feeling a little more coherent.
Still, though, liking Kise-as-scum more than most. Who'd be the scum on the wagon? Not me, not AP, not jason, and I'm thinkin not Khan.
If there's no scum on the wagon, why aren't they interested in voting him?
See also 1377 for how relevant this is; most of the counterwagons right now feel as if they're meant to disintegrate the Kise wagon, just as in 1377 with the falling wagons on fitz and especially UN.
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Post #1208 (isolation #42) » Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:55 am
Postby mastin2 »
Busy with LIFE, not with games. As in, by tomorrow, will be fine. It's too short to declare a V/LA, since it's partially weekend-catchup (thanks to me taking the weekend off of mafia) combined with lack of sleep, and at most would be, like, 16 hours of "limited" access. (As you can tell, I'm still posting, it's just that the amount of thinking in each post is a lot less than normal, wjhich really says something. ) I know my game limit very well, and you're correct that I'm at it, but incorrect that I'm in any regards at less capacity than normal to play in this game.
It's just that TODAY, my posts are sub-par and not up to my normal capacity, since TODAY, I have a lot on m plate, combined with the lack of sleep. Hence, the slight incoherence. If you checked, you'd see this is the only game I'm in which is in day; I'm not juggling multiple games at all. I'm juggling three or four things, with two or three of them being real-life and the last being this oen.
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Post #1210 (isolation #43) » Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:02 am
Postby mastin2 »
Was mnre a aerning about me multitasking at the moment, meaning that my thoughts for the rest of today will be slomewjhat scattered. Hence, the need for the warning. My posts are always slightly incoherent, 'cause I'm Mastin and making sense is typically a scumtell. But right now, they're going to be more incoherent than normal, hence the explanation. Like I said, juggling weekend stuff. Means that while I can give thoughts as I have them, I don't have the time to check the facts and stuff 'tl tomorrow.
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Post #1214 (isolation #44) » Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:20 am
Postby mastin2 »
In post 1212, Benmage wrote:I'll take an incoherent mastin over a 'quasi coherent one' ...
Mastin,
take a gander at the Tammy points. Look at even AP's statement that Tammys view on suspects and what I would say as scumhunting is altogether suspect. But she was relishing the idea to dismiss whatever reasoning I had for calling her scum. As in shes more interested in proving my points wrong, than actually scumhunting.
Thats a strong scumtell I've seen before (I forget if I saw MoI or Glork referencing it).. but yeah essentially just trying to find faults in other peoples arguments is an easier veil for scum to hide behind than to put fourth actual scumhunting(because theyre scum!)
This is actually exactly the kind of argument I needed to hear from ya, Benmage. It gets you almost entirely out of the suspect list (not *quite* ready, but definitely on the right track--will wait ;til tomorrow when I can do more research to confirm), and puts Tammy into the line of fire--she's been null, so I can easily buy her being scum. Will check.
Butyeah. Your scumtell looks good, as does the fact that Tammy's not acting quite like I've come to expect jher to as town.
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Post #1221 (isolation #46) » Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:35 am
Postby mastin2 »
That your meta on me's not valid. If for no other reason than because this bame's obviously not multiscum. And you hsave to remember, in the endgame, it really wasn't anything that I said which contributed to my lynch. It was my predecessor, along with Cooldog. I was playing that whole game to my town self (especially given my approach to d1), no more so than on the last day. I said it then, and I'll say it again, had Nacho's and my positions been reversed, him the scum and me the town, my endgame play woulda been pretty much identical. Maybe there'd have been a slgiht difference I would never be able to detect, but it'd be soo slight that it'd be inivisble.
And after that game, I went on vacation for a few months. And wjen I came back, I promised to turn a new leaf, anyway, meaning that meta really isn't that applicableto me yet. You can read the last day of 1377 to get an idea of why. (Search for spoiler tags--under one of them, I say a far more explitative "screw meta", and explain the concept there.) The fundamentsal of my play may be the same, but the specifics will be different. You saw me in GvE, CvL under specifics. So your meta reason for me being tonw is omvalid. Just like AP's meta on me, since his meta's only based on one game. It's a more recent game, and I'm town here as well, bit that doesn't mean his meta tell is actually balid.
Basically, nobody can use meta to think I'm town right now. Sure, by play they can, since it's quite obvious with my general mindset and all that that I'm town, but on meta, not really. Not off of resemblance to town game, not off of lack of resemblance to a scum game, least of all a multiscum game.
Could be? Yes, it could. Actually is? I sincerely doubt it. Occam's razor suggests he simply got two people mixed up, and simple logic dictates it's doubtful he mixed up a scumbuddy with someone who's not a scumbuddy.
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Post #1229 (isolation #50) » Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:16 pm
Postby mastin2 »
That said...
PeregrineV:
Mind explaining to me how, exactly, you missed both of those quotes, despite the fact that they're on the exact same page I express my Zoro townread the first time?
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Post #1276 (isolation #53) » Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:56 pm
Postby mastin2 »
Benmage, you've claimed your role, but not your ability; we need to know just how the heck you have a guilty on the claimed dayvig.
Tammy, you've claimed your role, and are willing to prove it; do so.
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Post #1284 (isolation #54) » Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:59 pm
Postby mastin2 »
If Tammy's lying and is not the dayvig, the dayvig will shoot Tammy.
If Tammy's lying yet the dayvig was one-shot, then they should probably counterclaim, since Tammy's not getting lynched otherwise.
If Tammy's not lying, she is the dayvig and can prove it with a shot.
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Post #1409 (isolation #55) » Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:20 am
Postby mastin2 »
Kise wrote:Why not a kise vig?
'Cause I'm going for a Kise lynch.
VOTE: Kise.
I also refuse to believe any possibility other than "Tammy is a day-SK", since that's pretty much the only option which makes any sense with her play, her reactions, her actions, and Benmage's result. Right now, that means she's under our reigns. She needs to die the day before lylo, but other than that, well, her shots are pro-town. AV was scum, and ThAd was someone a good majority of the playerlist had become suspicious of. You can claim that was a bad shot all you'd like because it didn't hit scum, but the fact is, it was a good shot. ThAd was acting suspicious, ThAd had a lot of suspicion on him already, and if not for being shot, he had a significant risk of being mislynched today, so that shot was not a bad one.
So as long as her shots continue to be pro-town, I'm going to advocate us keeping her around. She gives us a second lynch in a day; you can't ask for much better than that.
Plus, the scum are either going to have to kill her, or let that second shot give the town a lot of extra power. In other words, she'll soak up the nightkill, or the scum are screwed.
AS IF THAT WASN'T ENOUGH, a Tammy wagon SCREAMS of being scumdriven, because of the above--the scum want her out of the game. If they can do so via lynch,
we're doing the work of the scum for them
.
Tammy's scum, sure, but she's not MAFIA-scum, and that's who we need to kill.
Post
Post #1418 (isolation #57) » Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:52 am
Postby mastin2 »
Iso time.
Amrun wrote:I saw your vote was on Zab, but the post I questioned made it seem less like you believed he was scum and more like you believed he was a smart flip. Those are NOT the same things.
Know how I said one of pidgey/zab as scum?
This quote strongly makes me think that if pidgey's scum, zab is as well. This is a preeeetty heavy zab-defense from Amrun.
That said,
Amrun wrote:On another note, I totally didn't realize we had a scum daykill hahahahahha that's awesome.
Much as I doubt AV got a scumbuddy mixed up with the PGO, I hesitate to think Amrun would miss the fact that she's now down one scumbuddy.
Spoiler: Kise
Kise wrote:Hmm...zabriel, melmond, Zor, KK & Tammy are on my list.
Mel's town, Zor's town, Tammy's third party (so not groupscum), and KK's prob-town. So if there's a scum in here, it pretty much has to be zabriel.
For the record, that entire post is pretty much junk, and with his PV interaction, it looks like Kise-PV is half the scumteam.
Kise wrote:Rereading IAI's last two posts, I see he's caught up with the game but is only setting sights on zab. What makes my eyebrow raise is how he prefaces the vote park by saying he may switch after reading other isos. So, let's just imagine zab is town and continues to get votes... Wouldn't it be opportunistic for IAI (assuming scum) to go "naaaah ima stay on this wagon. will read other isos later" I don't want to say too much until he responds but it rubs me the wrong way that he asks Ben for 4 suspects when only listing zab as his suspect.
In fact, pretty sure this makes zabriel the third, 'cause Kise is heavily attacking IaI, who is attacking zabriel. (VROOM VROOM!) Despite the fact that Kise himself had expressed zabriel suspicion.
Kise wrote:Other minimalists/lurkers are Shah, Amrun, Zoro and Cyber
This is myk and pidgey's slots, for the record. Again, seems like there'd be scum here. Also, look at later in that post: He hasn't forgotten about zabriel, he says, with null-leaning sucm.
Also, looking at how much Kise mentions PV, it's pretty obvious that Kise and PV are scum.
In general, Kise's iso looks incredibly faked to me. I don't really have a way to put that feeling into words, but his posting just seems, well, to quote Khan, "cheeky".
PV's iso is basically a whole lotta nothin'. There's some pretty blatant distancing from zabriel, and a lot of RC hate, but that's pretty much it. PV's been lurking pretty much the whole game, both actively (not much content) and passively (via not posting much, but I'm fairly certain that's a null-tell for him). His posts come across as forced, and there IS that whole Mel/ThAd=masons thingy.
He does make me second-guess RC-as-scum, though.
Spoiler: pidgey
pidgey wrote:Anyway, I dont want to be apathetic since i've played with most of the player list before but i swear i will become better.
I've yet to see this. pidgey's done pretty much a whole lotta nothing. There is this gem, though:
AP why are you voting Kise btw
Why does pidgey want to know AP's reasons for voting Kise, specifically? He has a townread on AP.
+buddypoints
Add to that, he's had some rather anti-town ideas. He wanted Tammy to out the message. The messenger can out them when they choose to do so, and it's unnecessary now thanks to Tammy's claim. There's also this,
Goddamit this game is really hard to read!
Which just screams excuse.
His switch from Benmage to Tammy seems a little forced, and he jumps at the chance to lynch the guilty. Why? Because from his perspective, he knows that Tammy's not groupscum, and that the scumteam can potentially take out Benmage without having lost a member. He then asks for proof of a softclaim from Tammy, which is horribad. He keeps on pushing for a lynch on the dayvig. (Day-SK, but close enough.) Well after the claim. When if the claim was fake, Tammy'd be shot anyway. This, again, reads as scum trying to force a lynch through. He also pushes the angle that if Tammy flips town (which he "knows" she will) that Benmage is scum, potentially setting up a Benmage mislynch.
I've all-but convinced myself of Kise/PV/zabriel/pidgey being the scumteam, but let's go look at zab and RC to make sure.
RC wrote:Now on page 12, while I agree that the Zab wagon formed a bit too easily, it doesn't necessarily indicate that Zab isn't scum. Also, saying that he is town because the wagon was too easy equates to saying that scum don't bus. I think it is a possibility that scum voted him.
This does not sound like the post of someone on a zabriel scumteam.
RC wrote:My number one target is actually PeregrinV mostly because he is pretending not to read any of my posts.
-buddypoints; this comes from town.
RC wrote:Also, until I review the case on Melmond, I am going to
VOTE: PeregrinV
Might change at deadline.
As does this, and as does his tunneling on AP. I don't see that kind of posting towards someone often come from scum in this way.
As the expression goes, zabriel's iso is scummy-as-fuck.
It's a lot of nothing, and what little there is, is horribad.
Sorry for the wall, but I'm pretty sure of it now:
The remaining scum are Kise, PeregrineV, pidgey, and zabriel.
Post
Post #1421 (isolation #58) » Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:58 am
Postby mastin2 »
Yes.
You're not scum 'cause of interactions. Interactions contributed, but I looked at all of you, finding you all to be incredibly scummy.
Kise is bad, PV's worse, zabriel's the worst, and you're bad, pidgey.
The interactions are just the icing on the top of the cake for why you're scum.
Okay, so zabriel's clearly scum, here. However, I'm a bit concerned that he's my only suspect.
Tammy's day-SK (but not groupscum), Khan's a townread, Nero's a townread, BC's a weaker townread, Benmage is town, Yates is town, AP's town, and snifit's wagon was highly suspicious (see below), and RC's looking town via his iso, and myk's in my townlist. (Forget why; that might need re-visiting. But he's there, for the moment, for whatever reason.)
snifit - 4 (Nero Cain, mastin2, Kise, zabriel)
Add ThAd (vote #5) and Benmage (vote #6) here, and you get the peak of the snifit wagon. Nero's town, I'm town, ThAd's town, and Benmage is town. That really leaves only Kise and zabriel.
Kise - 4 (Kublai Khan, mastin2, AngryPidgeon, jasonT1981)
In contrast, this wagon is made up entirely of strong townreads, yet the wagon has consistently been derailed. Why? Why hasn't there been a stronger effort to lynch Kise?
And why, if he were town, wouldn't the scum have been interested in mislynching him?
I just don't see any scenario in which Kise is town.
(Also, note to self, do more wagon analysis for d1; there looks like there were quite a lot of wagons, and I want to see how they formed and why they did, along with why they--except the Mel one--failed.)
Post
Post #1425 (isolation #60) » Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:24 am
Postby mastin2 »
zabriel - 4 (Tammy, Nero Cain, jasonT1981, Acosmist)
zabriel - 6 (jasonT1981, Melmond, Nero Cain, Kublai Khan, I Am Innocent, Zoroaster)
Two zab wagons. The second is ESPECIALLY interesting, given the counterwagon which instantly formed to try and dissipate said zab wagon:
I Am Innocent - 4 (Benmage, ThAdmiral, rapidcanyon, Kise)
AngryPidgeon - 5 (ThAdmiral, rapidcanyon, Kise, Acosmist, Nero Cain)
zabriel - 4 (jasonT1981, Kublai Khan, Zoroaster, Cybertronix)
And THIS is REALLY interesting:
AngryPidgeon - 6 (ThAdmiral, Kise, Acosmist, Nero Cain, rapidcanyon, Yates)
zabriel - 5 (jasonT1981, Kublai Khan, Zoroaster, Cybertronix, BloodCovenant)
Melmond - 4 (Tammy, Benmage, zabriel, AngryPidgeon)
And the next changed votecount:
AngryPidgeon - 6 (Kise, Acosmist, Nero Cain, rapidcanyon, Yates, jasonT1981)
Cybertronix - 4 (BloodCovenant, ThAdmiral, AngryPidgeon, Kublai Khan)
Bam, zabriel wagon is gone.
Gotta go, so no time to formally analyze the above (though I think you get the gist of what I'm saying), and I've still got a few VCs after that to look at, but to my eye, this is VERY reminiscent of UN in 1377.