Saki Achiga-hen episode of side-A Mafia [OK]

Varsoon · Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:07 am

Like, honestly, if you can look at my play this game and say, "Yup, that's scum Varsoon," Please fucking lynch me.
I don't want to have to go on playing in a game populated by people who should know better.

I HAVE NO FUCKING QUALMS BEING POE LYNCHED
I THINK POE LYNCHING IS FUCKING STUPID, THOUGH, SO I'M GOING TO CALL YOU OUT ON IT REGARDLESS OF ALIGN

Varsoon · Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:07 am

Like holy fuck, please, if there's a vig out there, put the gun in my mouth 'cus god knows I'd do it if I could.

Varsoon · Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:08 am

You're making this game unbearable, Sakura.

Varsoon · Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:09 am

Because it's disengaged and relies wholly on mechanical power reliance, which is fucking lame and contrary to the rhetorical game of mafia.
Shit dawg.
In my next game, I'm going to straight up give scum extra kills on players who try that shit. I fucking hate it.

Varsoon · Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:10 am

I'll just make it a modkillable offense or some shit.

Like I said, the fucking issue is that it promotes play that distances players from engaging with the game at all. It's easy for scum to slip in on the 'confirmed' side, ESPECIALLY IF THEY HAVE A FUCKING ROLE THAT ALLOWS IT, and then the whole goddamn game is thrown because you decided to advocate shitty no-brains play.

Varsoon · Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:11 am

Scum probably want to focus conversation towards this trainwreck of bullshit and towards pissing me off and towards lynching me.
Fuck everyone.

Varsoon · Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:19 am

The issue isn't with your fucking reads, Sakura, it's with endorsing play that promotes disengagement.
If everyone in the game decides to play your stupid fucking idiot bitch-baby strategy of PoE lynching everyone you're unsure of, then lynch me first.
I don't want to deal with this bullshit.
No, I'm not scum, and my frustration comes from thinking it's a fucking dumb way to play the game and is likely to throw the fucking game if there's any single oversight in your bullshit.

In Xenosaga, I made it all the way to a 3P-Lylo because of idiots who wanted to do a PoE lynch. I could have won that game, too, if I kept the fucking IC alive. That's how goddamn stupid PoE lynching is--As scum, I could have won in 3P lylo

by keeping the fucking IC alive

.

This shit grinds my fucking gears.
Scum's going to want to focus on this, too, because this sort of dogpile on me only helps them.
Let's just fucking drop it, okay?

@Voided: I'm not telling anyone shit about my role. Kill me and find out, asshat.

Varsoon · Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:20 am

Sakura, I hope we lose this fucking game because you're such a dumb shit.

Varsoon · Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:20 am

And then I can wipe it in your face and be like, "LOOK AT FUCKING DUMB YOU WERE, IT WAS OBVIOUS I WAS TOWN AND YOUR BIAS IS STUPID AND I HATE YOU AND I AM TOTALLY JUSTIFIED FUCK YOUUUUUU'

Varsoon · Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:21 am

Because seriously, fuck that approach.

Varsoon · Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:25 am

Like holy shit.

Mod, is it okay for me to replace out? Just give me a yes/no, I guess. I may stay. I can't handle when people refuse to play the game.

Varsoon · Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:49 am

I'm asking because, as town, it could be considered a tactical replace because my frustration is making my slot way more high-priority on the lynch.

Also, Fuck you.

I'll talk about your list but holy shit don't bring up that PoE garbage unless you want me to kill children.

Varsoon · Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:57 am

Here's my list:

TOWN-READS:
Elbirn (and by extension...)
Sakura
Bitmap

Chandra (still iffy on Chandra, but fuck it)

I CANT FIGURE THIS SHIT OUT, TOWNish NEAR TOP SCUMish NEAR BOTTOM:

Singer
Wisdom
Vampirate
Zzzx
Profgessor
Benjamin Applebutt
VoidedMafia

SCUM-READS:
Jazzmyn
Xtoxm

But yeah I'm unsure of way more people and stuff
Also, uh, sorry for getting so angry, you just make me so mad.

<3 Elbirn though. That guy's a good kid.

Varsoon · Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:59 am

I'm not gonna replace, but, fuck, if I get vigged/quick lynched, it's because players are stupid as shit and would rather not play the game instead of actually try to figure shit out. That shit bothers me a lot.

Okay, I'm going to try to explain this as straightforward as I can or I'll have to break your legs or something, Sakura. Metaphorically and in-game, that is. >>

....

Varsoon · Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:07 am

In post 3459, Sakura Hana wrote:I mean is the same thing as saying: "The final scums are within -these names- lynching from here will result in a town win" So i don't get why Town-you would do that, I can see tons of reasons as to why Scum-you would do that and that's why im happy with you being the first lynch from my PoE list.

In Xenogears Mafia, we had exactly this situation. Despite that, I made it, as scum, all the way to Lylo and could have won if I didn't kill the IC heading into lylo. That's proof, for me, that PoE lynching does not work.

The problem with assuming "Scum are within -these names-" is that there's no way of knowing that for sure.
Because you don't know that, for sure, scum are within that pile, you might throw the entire game by lynching lots of town that way.
Town-Me is going to fight against it because I think that it's a terrible idea, and the fact no one else is adverse to it probably indicates that scum would benefit from it anyway. ESPECIALLY with town-me on the chopping block first.
This is a fucking closed setup. Scum might have an extra kill, there could be an SK or other third-party, etc. Making an assumption that you can just lynch X players and be absolutely confirmed a win is playing blind to these possibilities and could throw the game in that case.
As a player, it pisses me off to no end when people think they've 'figured out the setup' and can just stop playing the rhetorical game at hand and just lynch within a list safely. For me, that's like spitting in the face of the game. I can't stand it. I hate when people rely solely on mechanics and mechanical efficiency and play from that basis rather than engaging in and considering the rhetorical game. Sure, it may be safer a majority of the time to play that way, but it's fucking boring, lame, and against the point.

In short, I'm against the PoE thing both as a player and as town. I'm really fed up with your arrogance in calling me scum over it, because I've given more than enough examples of how this shit has gone terribly before and can go awry in this game. There's too many unknown factors, and playing this way isn't playing at all.

Varsoon · Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:07 am

I don't think it's ridiculous to stand by the fact that I actually want to play the fucking game instead of throwing.

Varsoon · Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:08 am

I'm not buying pizza for any of you chodes.

Varsoon · Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:11 am

Next time you sign up for a game, Sakura, why don't you just spare yourself the fucking expense of playing it by plugging all the game info into a Mafiabot that will crunch the data and give you the highest probability of hitting scum with lynches based on the info you feed it?

Jesus christ.

Varsoon · Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:12 am

PoE lynching gives everyone an excuse to just check out and lynch down a list rather than actually engaging with the game and providing critical content.

:/

Varsoon · Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:13 am

It's a bad strategy, too, especially in a fucking closed large setup.

It's insulting to me that you think checking out and just blindly lynching PoE is a good fucking idea and 10/10 mafia play.

Varsoon · Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:14 am

Because what you're advocating is complete disengagement based on incomplete info.

Throw harder.

Varsoon · Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:24 am

Please actually read my goddamn post.
I'm not trying to 'discredit' you or any bullshit. I'm saying that your strategy is flawed and I hate it.

I put out my own goddamn reads, it should be evident where we don't match up.
Apparently you don't account for bussing -at all- in your reads, first of all.
Voided is scummy as shit, and I've made cases for this before, but given how voided has joined various wagons there's a lot of issue that I have there. Voided's recent play has been a bit better, imo, but I still don't like these soft pushes at players who I know to be town.
Xtoxm is a hard-scumread of mine, and it's largely due to lurky/phoned in posts, early reads that look bad to me, and general sheepiness. Xtoxm and Voided also feel opposed, so I don't think I could see both as scum together, tbh.
Your scum-read on me is wrong because I'm confirmed town, so that's one mislynch that scum is glad you're pushing for!
I'm also lightly scum-reading Singer and Vampirate, because both have had really problematic play for me throughout the game, although I'm more critical of Vamp at this point, because I do legit get some town-pings from Singer.

Varsoon · Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:25 am

I'm not 'trying to keep mislynch options open'. That's bias-as-fuck coming from you. I'm trying not to narrow my game scope. Good scum will always kick your ass for doing that.

Varsoon · Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:26 am

Well, that's easy;

Do you know why I'm still alive right now?
Because scum know they can get away with leaving me around for a mislynch.
There's simply better targets and they know people like you will corral for a turbo-lynch on me because you're too goddamn steeped in your bias to think about my slot and actually consider it.

Varsoon · Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:27 am

I think it should be really obvious that I'm town.
Especially since the kill was on Cabd even when I knew that Sonic was a cop.

Varsoon · Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:31 am

Entire scumteam in Xtoxm's early reads are in the grey zone.
Gut.
Gut.

Hold on, it wasn't obvious that I knew sonic was a cop?
Let me pull up our interaction.

Varsoon · Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:37 am

Seriously, NOTHING in this exchange seems 'off' or weird to you?
What if I told you that in a previous game, Sonic used 'Xiao Xiao buns' to soft he was a cop to me before?

Spoiler: From Baccano! Mafia...

Spoiler: From this game...

Varsoon · Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:38 am

Also, Wisdom likely scum for not killing me because he thinks I'm vanilla?
More news at 6.

Varsoon · Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:39 am

@Voided: Man, I can get that. My reaction is 100% true, though. The truth is that I have way more of a problem with the PoE play than the reads anyway.

Varsoon · Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:40 am

I also broke my promise from earlier and totally shit the bed here, so, eh, sorry about that?
I guess Nacho's comments to 'play more natural' sunk in. The problem is that when I play more naturally, I shit the bed.

Varsoon · Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:43 am

Nah man you're only scum every time you're scum but then you try to be town when you're scum but you're not because you're scum when you're scum.

Varsoon · Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:49 am

@Sakura: I will punt you across a field of lilacs and into an ocean where someone, hopefully, gives a damn.

@Prof: <3

@Chandra: My life.

Varsoon · Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:56 am

@Wisdom: No I'm not?
I'm calling out a game approach that a soft-IC is clamoring for us to do because I see the flaws in it.
How is that appealing to emotion?
I've even given examples of where the SAME strategy failed in other large setups.

Varsoon · Sun Aug 02, 2015 9:31 am

:/

Sorry I threw a big wrench into all this and made everyone get all uppity and angry at each other.
I'm actually good with what ZZZX is putting down here. We can leave the wifomy bullshit for later.
Can we just proceed with the Jazzmyn lynch and actually play based on what flips we get coming in?

Also, thanks for fucking guaranteeing that I make it to LYLO, dolts. I was hoping to draw a kill, but I guess I'm too fucking Varsoon for that.

Varsoon · Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:54 am

Dats what people said about Xenogears
They were wrong

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:19 am

Sorry, man, my shitplay is coming from town.

I also have not read the last 9 pages.
Should I?
:/

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:20 am

Also, I'm that one bowling girl. Ergo, the pins/pins pun, I guess.
I don't know her name.
I just know she bowls.
She probably has some japanese-as-heck name like Kuchikawa Sakimichi-chan.

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:21 am

Wait, why are chandra/xtoxm scum?

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:23 am

Oh, went digging and found my role Pm. I'm Sagimori Arata and I'm part of Agachi's team or something.
Told you it was a japanese-as-heck name.
Why can't I be T.K. or Dann of Thursday?

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:24 am

In post 3829, Wisdom wrote:imo Chandra and xtoxm perfectly fit the two scum roles you are expecting, explain the ns nightkill, and somewhat explain the setup.

This?

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:33 am

I've got limited shots. I'm saving the last one in case (the highly likely case) that I make it to lylo, or, well, the day before LYLO.
Anyway, I'm cool with lynching people but I kinda don't see scum ZZZX

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:45 am

Town, you dip

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:47 am

Who on his wagon isn't confirmed at this point?
I say we lynch 'em!

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:56 am

If you lynch me, you'll regret it, and in post-game I'll call you an idiot for being such an idiot.
But at this point, y'know, I guess you can be an idiot for a lynch or two. :/

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:57 am

I already full-claimed short of my power.
I'm not gonna fight my lynch that much, because if conf-town idiots are going to shit the bed, I'll let 'em.

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 12:03 pm

VOTE: Xtoxm

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 12:06 pm

Also, I don't know anything from the show. I guess I'll share and see if Sakura thinks mine fits or something?
I'm apparently the last player recruited for the team.
I don't really have anything special to offer other than being a good player.
My play is inspired by bowling and my grandmother.

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 12:43 pm

My only exposure is Fukumoto's Akagi.

When I say full claim, I meant that I've full claimed my flavor and all my abilities are on the table.
I was really worried about flavor claiming early, as I'm used to closed setups having flavor that the scum team can exploit.

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:06 pm

In post 3993, Wisdom wrote:Saying he saw ms being a cop after the fact does nothing for me Elbirn.

So I should out the cop before the fact?
This phrase is all kinds of literally needs to die.

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:08 pm

I proved that I noticed Sonic's Varsoon-specific crumbs.
Vig me if you want to throw the fucking game, I guess.
I don't really like this town much anyway. :/

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:08 pm

Also, the fact you're letting Singer play vig when she's clearly an SK is really annoying.

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:10 pm

I'm not claiming my ability because it still has town utility unclaimed.

And if you don't believe my points on sonic, you've proven you didn't read my post because I can't believe anyone has their head that far up their own ass.

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:11 pm

Elbirn, I dig you, but everyone else has made this game a fucking nightmare for me.

There has been an extra kill every day, pretty much.
What's more likely, an unhinged, claimed vig that's just fucking murdering town or an SK?

No one ever kills conf-town anymore.

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:12 pm

But hey, call me a doubt-casting scum because I'm thinking of the options and putting them on the table instead of being a sheep.
I'm waiting for it.
You jerks are predictable.

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:15 pm

Okay, unlimited vig in this setup, sure, okay, except that's terrible.

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:15 pm

Apparently the trick is to kill all the town PRs.

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:23 pm

VOTE: singer
Because otherwise we lose another town PR at this rate and I'm tired of it.

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:26 pm

I'd rather stop the two-kills-on-town-a-night thing instead of take an educated guess at kicking off a scum.

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:28 pm

...no?
Unless it's mod-confirmed for me, I'm going with the lynch I think is best.

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:39 pm

She's even setting a shot up on me and I'm fuckin' mod-confirmed town. ;P

And mafia's been getting lynched enough that she hasn't had to shoot mafia.

Yeah, we don't have confirmation on dick with mafia. We do have confirmed a claim from Singer saying she's responsible for all these kills.
:/

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:48 pm

Man okay whatever
VOTE: Xtoxm
This town can blow me.
'Vig' me if you know what's good for you, Singer.
I've gotta move out of my apt in a few days anyway so getting out of this game is probably for the best, tbh.

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:53 pm

Please don't look at the pathfinder mafia game where I bussed all four of my partners from D1.

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:00 pm

Er, not really.
It would've been claimed if we had bodyguards, redirects, etc.

I mean another reason could be to wifom chandra
obviously.
so I guess so?

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:04 pm

Oh
shows how much attn I am paying

Sorry.

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:12 pm

VOTE: Xtoxm

Whatever

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:15 pm

...towards an Xtoxm lynch?

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:15 pm

I mean, I knew Sonic was a cop and Sonic died, so, uh, yeah.

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:17 pm

Wooo! Exoneration!

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:27 pm

I thought I voted singer earlier?
Did I not vote for singer earlier?
Gobdamn, I need a break.
Gonna go pack some stuff.
And maybe eat an ice cream cone when I finish
Like
Yippee I did it

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:29 pm

I saw xtoxm snow some kids in a few games
Dude's like a sleeper agent as both aligns
Just comes out and takes care of business (I wanted to write 'binnez' like a shortened Business, but I don't think people would understand the lingo/shorthand/whatever)
Here I dunno he doesn't feel like he's icing that cake

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:30 pm

In post 4121, Sakura Hana wrote:The fact that everyone
even scum
is going along fine with the quicklynch ride is bothering me. I highly doubt scum has actually given up.

'cus if they fight it it is obvious.
If they don't you WIFOM like this
EZ PZ

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:30 pm

In post 4126, Sakura Hana wrote:And for this to happen i need everyone, including mastin.

You got me
I'm past the point of care

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:39 pm

so like
We had this whole mod meta moment where you all jumped down my throat because there couldn't possibly be a Godfather in pieguyn's game
but you think there could be a ninja, which is just Godfather by a different name?

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:40 pm

In post 4141, Wisdom wrote:When you have a ninja you use it from the beginning, you don't let the tracker catch your partners and hope you'll get conftowned

Ayo!
Ding ding ding
this.

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:41 pm

PS: If there is a ninja, I love you pieguyn, but I'll give you a noogie.

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:42 pm

Well we can always just lynch Wisdom later
I still think we should lynch Singer
Seriously
Like
Fuck

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:43 pm

VOTE: Singer
Whyyyyy wouldn't we at this point?
At this point, if Singer is a goddamn third party, they're going to kill the conf-town and not kill the scum because otherwise they lose they lose so hardcore on the scum team being all gone and the game still going

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:44 pm

Even if singer isnt an SK
Getting rid of singer takes care of that POSSIBILITY
and stops town from dying in droves.

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:49 pm

@Wisdom: Yes, unless they are for sure limited-shot and already blew their load.
Because FUCK that sort of swing being in the hands of someone who has proven they just wanna kill town PRs.

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:49 pm

Who the hell runs unlimited vig in a setup anyway
like what the heckin reckin

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:50 pm

I get that you're like, "Oh then they are screwed at this point anyway" but it literally doesn't matter
Do you want 2 town to die tonight or only 1?
Because right now you're vouching for 2.

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:51 pm

Maybe singer's good at picking up on that kinda thing or just has gotten lucky so far.
You don't even need to find out who is special, you just need to discern who isn't.

@Sakura: Then fuuuuuuuuck those setups

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:53 pm

It isn't even paranoia, sakura.
This is legit me saying "Fuck two town dying tonight. If it turns out as an SK, all the better. If not, hey, we stopped town from getting doubled-down tonight. Good show."

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:54 pm

In post 4175, Wisdom wrote:that made no sense. Singer has consistently shot her scumreads. Not PRs.

SK can hunt scum too
All da flips being from PRs is just a handy coincidence, huh

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:56 pm

In post 4179, Wisdom wrote:who the fuck says two town are dying tonight?

Progression that makes any sense whatsoever.

Also, leashing is literally terrible and no one should ever agree to it because it is against their wincon.

@Sakura: Xtoxm, Wisdom.
Done son.

@WizzyWis: Hey man don't make fun of me for not reading the game.

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:56 pm

Actually, wait, I'll take a vig shot if I gotta

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:57 pm

It'll be all like pow pting bloom kablow uuuuugh poof

Aww, Wisdom, I'm sorry for being annoying.

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:58 pm

Like, what have I done that's annoying? ;_;

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:03 pm

Okay, fuck it, you wanna know my big dumb secret ability?
It's fucking nothing. Literally.
I've been faking all this time hoping to draw an NK, but apparently even with two goddamn killers out there I can't
That's how useless I am, I guess.
I saw my role pm and thought that the whole bowlings/pins pun would be funny and if I announced a MYSTERIOUS power in-thread, scum would come and get me or it'd get some sort of worthwhile reaction. Didn't Profgessor say I was 'cleared' because of my action and response? I never got that.

I'm actually not fine with being vig'd, because I want the vig, if it is a vig, to hit scum.
At the same time, though, if I have to be dead for town to 'solve' the game or some shit, I'll take the hit.

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:07 pm

I picked those two because I like ZZZX for town and I don't know about these hooligans but its whateva

Singer being 'leashed' is against an SK wincon, so, no, that's a dumb plan.
We should lynch the person who is going to kill town tonight, proven by killing town two other nights (three? I am not reading) and stuff.

P-EDIT
@Sakura: I watched Akagi, remember? I know some mahjong stuff. So when I saw my role said my character takes inspiration for bowling, I thought a fitting fake-ability would be one that's a bowling/mahjong pun.

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:11 pm

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence, Wisdom

When do I get to shit all over your face and smear it in with my thumbs? Is it after Singer kills one more town, or two, or when we lose the game because of it? What's the breaking point for me getting to lord this over you, preferably by smearing my scat all over yon visage?

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:12 pm

I really need to know this so I can lord it over you later.
If you're right and Singer hits scum and game ends and we all high-five, I'll step back from the celebratory high-five and admit, "Oh, I was wrong. I do not deserve slapping hands."
But otherwise, I hope you like the shit I'm gonna give you if we go with literally anything but a Singer lynch.

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:21 pm

@Wisdom: I already said I've passed the point of caring about if singer is a vig/sk. Singer has PROVEN they are a liability to town by killing the town they've killed so far. I want to lynch

that

.

@Sakura: I came up with the fake power immediately when I saw my role PM's flavor. I have a hard time remembering names, but I made a mental note to really push this flavor-fitting power as much as I could. I knew Mahjong is kind of like poker but with hand of several tiles. I knew Pins were a type of tile and you can score based on matching a lot of Pins. I figured that 'setting up' the Pins was a sort of play where a player might try to get a hand of Pins. I haven't even read the wiki linked for this show, so, I'm surprised I got all that right. I was just hoping that enough people (IE: Scum) would see this flavor/ability matchup and think "That is DEFINITELY a power in this game" and kill me over it.

@ZZZX: <3 you back
Didn't Profgessor die?
Gob I am bad at reading

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:23 pm

Actually
Who is the flavor cop again?
The fact that I softed this ability
but then I did not die
probably means that dude is scum.

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:24 pm

In post 4232, Wisdom wrote:
In post 4228, Varsoon wrote:Singer has PROVEN they are a liability to town by killing the town they've killed so far. I want to lynch that.

Again, the fact she had three misshots does not mean she's incapable of shooting scum in the following nights.

A man kills your father.
The same man kills your mother.
The same man kills your only sibling.
Today, that man tells you that he's just trying to kill a killer who is running around in your house.
Why the fuck do you trust that man not to just kill you?

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:26 pm

VOTE: Xtoxm

Hey, Wisdom, just remember my question. Y'know.
The one regarding my fecal matter and your cabeza.

@Sakura:
That's EXACTLY what happened.
Singer killed a townie
Then Singer killed another townie
And then Singer killed ANOTHER townie
And then Singer said, "I know I killed all these townies, but trust me, I am trying to hit scum"

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:27 pm

@Wisdom: So..
Is it hard for people to fabricate scumreads that look real?
Wouldn't an SK want to kill their scumreads anyway?
Hey look as it turns out if Singer is a townvig, their reads are so bad they got town killed three times. That's a trend!

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:56 pm

@Wisdom: Town pushing lynches require a majority vote. Someone who can kill a player solely on their own is a whole different ballgame, champ.
Again, man, I've got all this shit, and your face could really use some moisturizing. Or pasteurizing. Whichever you prefer it be called. I just wanna know, because when Singer shoots ANOTHER fucking town, I wanna know how much I get to rub it into your pores.

I should honestly go quote Prof's post about my power clearing me because in retrospect it's kinda wtf.

Varsoon · Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:12 pm

In post 3502, Profgessor Emotion wrote:
In post 3488, Wisdom wrote:Except he has no PR

Where do you get this idea from?

Also, D2 Varsoon targeted me, and what he said and how he said it was lovely. He will be one of the last people I will actually lynch.

I also have to say that I understand his "sakura is gf" deal, because I think I feel the same, and I have a hard time understanding how she doesn't see that the mislynches were being set up.

Conversely, wisdom whipping back and forth on reads is annoying and could be indicative of town him, but I couod never recall him being paranoid of people readung him as scum as town, but I do know that he plays to townmeta as scum, so this could be him being upset that he isn't getting us to read him the way he wants us to

Yeah this post
And in the next he talks about 'our interaction' and I dunno if he meant this
Or she
whatever this hydra
they?
them

Spoiler: Why did I type this, go to sleep Varsoon

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:32 am

Ugh. Guess I won't get my Singer lynch.
Singer, have you payed any attention to my discussion with (or rather, at) Wisdom regarding rubbing it in postgame that your shots are bad and you should feel bad and really why did you ever shoot anyone are you a compulsive vig did you really think AND pride your own shots over the idea you could be wrong what the heck you have a kill count that is scum-worthy but you think people shouldn't give you flak over it and let you just keep on keeping on?

I think we can lynch Chandra and solve, like, 99% of this paranoia.
Singer can kill Xtoxm, since Wisdom is apparently BP?
That's what's good, imo.

I feel like the reality is that we'll mislynch, singer will kill me (fantastic shot, 10/10, gonna go get my shit ready for the face painting session) and town will shit the bed.
VOTE: Chandra

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:36 am

Or I'm town that doesn't want to shit the bed, Chandra. And if I do shit the bed, I want to at least preserve some of that hot cannoli to use in future endeavors.

VOTE: Xtoxm
I like wisdom's plan, I guess.

@Sakura: So you think... there'd just be

another

ascetic cop. Instead of, I dunno, an actual scum-bussing ascetic.
Whatevah
whatever

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:37 am

In post 4393, Chandra Nalaar wrote:Incidentally, I already know what I'm going to do tonight.

Figure out how many false-guilties and singer-killing-town shots it takes for you to win?

:/

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:38 am

Because, frankly, if I survive to the next day, I'm calling it now:
Chandra 'tracks' me to the kill or some equally annoying rubbish.

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:40 am

That's a pretty shitty representation of the reasons why people want you lynched, but okay.

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:43 am

I'm gonna punch pie in the nose if there's just an unlimited, unhinged vig in the setup.

@Sakura: Lose because Singer shoots town, Chandra shoots town, and then endgame happens or some rubbish.

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:45 am

We have 11 alive right now so
1 ML, 2 town shot puts as at 8 alive.
another ML and 2 town shot chunks us down to 5.
So I guess Chandra doesn't win for sure in that case.
/shrug.

I'm just not a fan of Chandra's whole "OH I KNOOOOOOW WHO I AM GONNA FOLLOW TONIGHT WINKY FACE" rubbish.
:/

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:47 am

So whatever
Let's lynch Xtoxm and then see what happens.

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:48 am

Srsly let's just lynch xtoxm I'm tired of talking shop

@Chandra: That's okay, sorry for calling out your lame strat.

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:49 am

For a guy who's username is wisdom, he actually does drop some good points.

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:58 am

@Singer: No, I'm town. Try again.
You could have coordinated with the literally 500 investigative roles we supposedly have in order to inform your kills. You didn't.
You could have not killed. You didn't.
Say what you want to justify the kills like, "Oh the PoE is easier now" or "I had just as good a chance as hitting scum and those town were playing scummy so they would've been ML'd anyway". The truth is that you're offing town in a setup where investigative roles could have benefited for more days. The reality is that you're probably gonna keep hitting town, too. The reality is that regardless of you being an SK or a Vig, that needs to stop.

But hey I'm a baddie so I'm probably wrong and you're doing great.

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:00 am

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:01 am

In post 4453, Sakura Hana wrote:ftr, the vig's role isn't to kill scum, but eliminate potential mislynches.
It's one of the things i was told back in Paradise Lost specially coz i shoot town twice.

People just told you that to make you feel better for helping scum get closer to their wincon.

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:02 am

In post 4459, Bitmap wrote:Did we win? Lol.

No, I'm still an unlynchable third party, so hopefully I can lynch out singer and get to endgame.

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:05 am

The self-hammer under inevitable lynch cuts discussion short. It's not exactly against wincon per se.

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:09 am

Don't shoot me, though.
Especially if you're town.
If you're scum, shoot me dead.

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:12 am

More like ITT chandra appeals a lot to Singer and I call her out
Who's the survivalistic scum in this scenario?
dohoohohooho

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:15 am

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:17 am

Or we could just not touch me because I'm confirmed town.
Jaysus.

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:19 am

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:19 am

But yeah, see you guys around. I hope you figure out the game once I'm gone.

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:20 am

I mean, I did that in Pathfinder mafia, Chandra.
I remember making the EXACT same appeals, bro.

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:23 am

I wouldn't be surprised if Singer shoots me tonight. :l

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:22 am

Chandra claiming wisdom track to force the vig on me.
woop woop i guess.

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:24 am

I'm town. It's my prerogative to try to get the vig, if she is a vig, to actually shoot right. :/

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:24 am

In post 4629, Sakura Hana wrote:Like you're going to die PoE'd out anyways, so why do you care if you die tonight, or tomorrow or the night after, etc.

Scum sakura mvp

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:33 am

dude yeah, I know I'm probably gonna get killed or lynched, but as town it's worth it for me to be like, "Yeah no!"

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:33 am

Oh god we're actually doing the PoE lynch thing aren't we
Fuck this kill me.

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:33 am

Fuck you sakura, throw this game without me man
Voided is the last scum
gg

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:35 am

"Shut up, you're trying to think of ways we should use our heads and actually win, I want to do my dumb plan."
Yeah fine, whatever.
Singer, please kill me.

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:36 am

In post 3446, Varsoon wrote:The issue isn't with your fucking reads, Sakura, it's with endorsing play that promotes disengagement.
If everyone in the game decides to play your stupid fucking idiot bitch-baby strategy of PoE lynching everyone you're unsure of, then lynch me first.
I don't want to deal with this bullshit.
No, I'm not scum, and my frustration comes from thinking it's a fucking dumb way to play the game and is likely to throw the fucking game if there's any single oversight in your bullshit.

In Xenosaga, I made it all the way to a 3P-Lylo because of idiots who wanted to do a PoE lynch. I could have won that game, too, if I kept the fucking IC alive. That's how goddamn stupid PoE lynching is--As scum, I could have won in 3P lylo
by keeping the fucking IC alive
.

This shit grinds my fucking gears.
Scum's going to want to focus on this, too, because this sort of dogpile on me only helps them.
Let's just fucking drop it, okay?

Ayoooo

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:37 am

Wisdom, again, man, you're legit.

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:38 am

Again, you're trying to censor what I have to say with this bullshit of "You're being a child" or "Shut up and let town win".
Again, I point to my VALID AS FUCK points and you just handwave them
You're being a goddamn child. An adult considers and engages everything. A child turns their nose up and crosses their arms.

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:39 am

Trying to fucking shame me into not playing the game or some shit
This 'I am embarrassed for you' shit
Fuck you, too.

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:42 am

And that's why you'll lose, because you're biased and fail to look at the bigger picture. You'd rather err on the side of thinking you've got the game 'figured out'.

@Chandra: Again, that's not my argument at all. Keep being diminutive and literal shit.
It'll be useful for you to be such shit, because I'll need a ton of it to smear in people's faces post-game.

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:44 am

I dunno Elbirn, I'm fine dying, this game is too stressful anyway.
People want to call me a fucking child for bringing up actual points.
So, eh, fuck it, y'know?

@Chandra: I'm the scatman. I'm already literally made of shit.

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:55 am

Hahaha,
prepping shit for a rubbing on people
inb4 Elbirn-scum snows us

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:00 am

Wisdom, again, is on the money.
Kill chandra tonight
gg maybe

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 8:48 am

Wheh,
I guess we're all gold.
Told you guys I was town.
And now I don't even think I need to rub poop on anyone but myself, in some sort of awkward victory dance.

Sorry for the paranoia Chandra, but you know how stressful it can be.
You did well with your night shots.
I didn't fool

anyone

but town with my fake action, did I?

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:07 am

In post 4830, Cabd wrote:Varsoon, I can't believe I'm about to say this, but you and I both did the whole claiming more power than we had thing and it worked out well for both of us; good job.

I always take the opportunity to make a pun when I see it.
<3

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:21 am

B-but what about my pins?

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:28 am

I love how Sakura was flabbergasted over me coming up with that as a fake ability
I almost died

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:50 am

Yeah, but they have fake claims.
I think the idea of theme games is to do one of two things:
1. Provide an accurate thematic retelling/representation of the source material
2. Use the flavor elements from the show in a new, unique story

In the case of 1, scum team should be the antagonists with good fake claims.
In the case of 2, scum team can be anyone so long as flavor is written to 'fit'.
I don't really mind, although as a mod I tend to run the first type more than the second because it feels more appropriate and less fan-fiction-y.

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:54 am

The only theme games where I am aware of the alignment being randomized completely and not made to fit some sort of original flavor/mod-story flavor are U-Pick games.
In that case, though, I still prefer the flavor to be built around a whole 'Why are these guys the antagonists' sort of thing.

P-EDIT:
Oh yeah and all the stuff that pieguyn said.
I actually hate when players try to flavor-spec or role-spec and 'figure out' the setup.
In all of my future games, I'm going to build ways to actively punish it. 'cus, imo, it ruins the fun.

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:03 am

Oh, no, I hate when town thinks a mass claim will let them somehow 'solve' everything. It drives me up a wall regardless of my align.
I'm probably going to always implement some sort of role that, if informed of other roles, can ruin them.
I'm probably always going to make it to where it is better for town NOT to claim rather than claim.
I'm probably going to include scum roles that are more powerful if they know town flavor.

It's not enough to build a setup that has town get nothing/negative utility from mass-claiming.
I'm gonna build in ways to keep players from thinking they can outguess the mod,
or at least I'm going to talk about doing it so much that no one will dare try in my games, mwhahahaha

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:11 am

It's only a 'correct' strategy if you put a ton of stock into claims, which I feel carry far too much power on-site. The site meta favors claims far too much.
As a mod, I want to shift the site meta towards favoring rhetoric, intuition, and post-by-post play more than mechanical play, trust/reliance on mechanical efficiency, etc.
One way to do that is to make games with special mechanics and/or roles that concentrate and reward players for engaging in the rhetorical play.
Another way to do that is by making roles that can punish and hinder players solely based on their mechanical reliance.

There are good and bad ways to do this, of course. A 'bad' way is using a role like Godfather. A step in the right direction is a roleblocker/jailer.

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:21 am

If you do win off of PoE, it feels like it cheapens the win. Like the game was won by solving some formula/equation rather than actually paying attention to what was posted and discerning alignments through rhetoric alone.
If you lose off of PoE, it's because scum was able to slip through it, which is hilarious, because town has the hubris to think they've 'figured' the game out. I don't want to lose a game because someone thinks they've figured it all out, only for them to realize the 'facts' they were doing their equations through were lies/untrue due to scum fake claims and/or PR interactions.

It's also not fun for me. For me, it's like giving up on playing the game and just going with the path of least resistance.
It's like when people play a move in any game (like chess, cards, mahjong even) and they think blindly that because they have 'figured things out' they've already won. You just open yourself up to playing into the opponent's chii toitsu.

P-EDIT:
I like mountainous setups, but I think that roles can be crafted AROUND the rhetoric of the game, rather than solely having mechanical efficiency. Furthermore, I feel like players enjoy playing roles that provide them with other actions and interactions to think about outside of the game space.
For instance, consider the Special Mechanic I have in my Steven Universe game. Players target other players in order to possibly form day-chat neighborhoods based on mutual targeting. These neighborhoods can enable other role abilities for people inside of them. This forces players to seriously consider each other in terms of who they want to chat with in private, who they might want to empower the role of, and who they can trust. It allows the scum-team to interact with town at the possible cost of enabling mechanically effective town roles. I don't mind roles having mechanical efficiency--I just like that efficiency to be tied to the rhetorical game, rather than having outright power.

/shrug.

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:22 am

I dunno if anyone's said this but, uh
Thanks for running this game, Pieguyn. It was a lot of fun and I enjoyed playing as well as your modding.
Good stuff <3

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:35 am

Oh, yeah, I gotta punch pie in the nose for putting an unlimited vig in the setup.
Thanks for reminding me.
PIE WHAT WERE YOU THINKING PUTTING AN UNLIMITED VIG IN THE SETUP!?

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:36 am

FROM MY MAHJONG ANIME TO YOURS

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:37 am

Ahem. Try no 2

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:40 am

It's essentially one of two things;
Scum gets two kills a night, woop woop
or it outright murders the scum and wins game.

I've put a limited shot vig in almost every game I've run and it's always hit town and I've always felt a bit uneasy about how much swing it invited into the setup.

Varsoon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:23 pm

Yeah, lol, I was under the impression that Voided knew the game was over but wanted to catch up and post despite that, getting two cents in, lol

Varsoon · Fri Aug 07, 2015 3:30 am

Eh, I dunno about apologizing. I already gave ol'Chandra a pat on the back for throwing darts at the right names on the board.
Honestly, and I don't know if this is intentional, but Chandra's play struck me as polarizing and anti-town--that's why I pushed for a lynch there. If intentional, though, it managed to keep Chandra on the table for mislynches, so there's that.

Varsoon · Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:59 am

You guys are silly
Sonic with an anime avatar?
What has this world come to.
This game was fun.

Varsoon · Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:30 am

Wait, what? Not someone cool, like Sandslash?
What a pity!

Varsoon · Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:47 am

Pfft, fads.
I'm sticking with my tried-and-true avatar.
Even if people think I'm some adorable pokemans.

Varsoon · Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:59 am

In post 4976, pieguyn wrote:IKA PLS BUY VARSOON A PIZZA

fix'd