TBD Mafia 2 [game over]

[Bulbazak]

"Do you think Bulba should have a lollipop?"

[Bulbazak]

[Bulbazak]

It's me. I'm teh scumz. You're all town.

[Bulbazak]

I was in a game where all the town players were cops, except for one who was a seer, and the entire scum team was composed of Werewolves. I got mislynched d1 after everyone panicked wagoned me as a counterclaim.

[Bulbazak]

Well, actually I claimed at L-1 and then was immediately hammered by a counter claim. It was only at that point that everyone put two and two together.

[Bulbazak]

Yes/No questions count as multiple choice. Otherwise, mine wouldn't have been accepted.

[Bulbazak]

There may be a mechanic that depends on it.

[Bulbazak]

Mute role confirmed.

[Bulbazak]

ALISAE!

[Bulbazak]

Got it. Lynching Desperado first.

[Bulbazak]

I really hope someone submitted a question asking which alignment we'd like.

[Bulbazak]

Have a cool cookie:

[Bulbazak]

That was Gin's bribe, btw.

[Bulbazak]

It'd be hilarious to be a neutral vanilla again.

[Bulbazak]

Well, day one's going to be predictable.

[Bulbazak]

Absolutely!

And I'll throw Alisae in if she promises not to shoot me.

[Bulbazak]

Yay!

[Bulbazak]

Poke Mulch With A Stick

[Bulbazak]

poke bulbazak with a lollipop

Eat lollipop

[Bulbazak]

Did anyone answer yes to the mod lying q?

No. I'm all for other bastard elements, but we need the mod to be truthful about the game and its mechanics.

[Bulbazak]

if i find out who made the "15/16/17/18 vigilantes" question i'm policy lynching them d1

Or vigging them. Same goes for whoever made the post restriction question.

[Bulbazak]

I'm hoping that if enough people pick the lowest number, the mod realizes that we probably don't want 15 vigs and 5 post restrictions.

[Bulbazak]

@Ginngie: Do you have power?

[Bulbazak]

What do you want, oh powerful one?

[Bulbazak]

Vote SnarkySnowman

[Bulbazak]

[Bulbazak]

[Bulbazak]

I was hoping to at least get my role before doing this but...

V/LA for an unknown amount of time due to Irene

No clue when I'll next get to a computer.

[Bulbazak]

My role confuses me.

VOTE: Mulch

Policy train a go-go!

I might have 2 other scum reads, but I want to give them room to develop. Several townreads, though.

[Bulbazak]

I wanted the scumteam to be called "Spamposter", btw.

[Bulbazak]

[Bulbazak]

Toby definitely isn't a mod puppet. If he was, I would have gotten a response by now.

[Bulbazak]

I'll lynch whoever I want. And I don't trust this whole wish granter thing.

[Bulbazak]

Even if wish granter is real, there's no guarantee that it's a town role. And given the way Mulch has claimed his role, I don't have much confidence in him being town period.

[Bulbazak]

He's too panicky. It makes me think the Wish Granter is likely not real. And even if it is, I don't care enough to keep Mulch alive.

[Bulbazak]

Where's your vote Dreal? Or are you too busy chasing Lyncan?

[Bulbazak]

If you think Screen is scum, why are you taking pressure off him?

Now to figure out if Dreal is protecting a buddy or WKing town.

[Bulbazak]

I'm riding the policy train for a similar reason. The seat is very comfy.

[Bulbazak]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Drealmerz7

I don't believe you.

[Bulbazak]

How many PRs are you supposed to have again?

[Bulbazak]

The quality of this wagon really is pointing to Dreal-scum. I'm feeling really satisfied with this.

[Bulbazak]

Cases are for chumps.

[Bulbazak]

Why would I even want to appease you?

[Bulbazak]

This squirming is great.

[Bulbazak]

why is everyone distracting from the issue at hand?

And that is?

[Bulbazak]

VAXKILLER doesn't meet my purity test and is therefore CONFSCUM. everyone else avoiding the issue are VIs/SCUM.

Walk me through this one.

Bulb, why the PL on Mulch?

The better question is, why wouldn't you want to policy Mulch?

Y'all need to back up off my Shakespearean rhyming entertainment, damn it!

[Bulbazak]

I'm not an alt slip!

[Bulbazak]

@Chickadee: The way Mulch went about claiming seems off to me. But even if he is on the up and up, is the role itself worth keeping Mulch around as a player? I'm not sure it is.

[Bulbazak]

VAXKILLER doesn't meet my purity test and is therefore CONFSCUM. everyone else avoiding the issue are VIs/SCUM.

Walk me through this one.

[Bulbazak]

Last time I saw an unknown player slot, it was being controlled by a town player. So not interested in lynching Toby. Someone can vig him later if they want.

[Bulbazak]

It's either Ginngie or another player is controlling that account.

[Bulbazak]

Are you going to answer my question Lyncan, or should I just ignore you?

[Bulbazak]

I don't care about Toby. I want to talk about you and Vaxkiller.

[Bulbazak]

VAXKILLER doesn't meet my purity test and is therefore CONFSCUM. everyone else avoiding the issue are VIs/SCUM.

Walk me through this one.

I'm just going to assume that if you don't do this, you really don't find it important or are just BSing.

[Bulbazak]

Then quote it or give it again. Supposedly, it's important to you, but you seem to not give a crap about it or anything else besides Toby, and that seems strange to me.

[Bulbazak]

bulbazak gives lycan the horror f'r not addressing his issues
but pri'r to yond that gent refuses to addresseth his stance on me at all

My stance is that you're scum, and I'm not going further with you, because I recognize a bull crap artist when I see one.

[Bulbazak]

I got what I needed.

VOTE: Lyncanfire

For the record, I'm not going to give reasoning for my read if I think you're asking just to create a smokescreen.

[Bulbazak]

What if you're vigged?

[Bulbazak]

@Toby: Who's your favorite Powerpuff Girl?

[Bulbazak]

Personally Bubbles

The correct answer is Alisae, but I'll accept Bubbles as well.

[Bulbazak]

[Bulbazak]

@Desp: What've you got so far?

[Bulbazak]

You're assuming I don't know how to play. It's a bad assumption. You're not going to get anywhere with reading me if you keep making bad assumptions.

[Bulbazak]

@Alisae: Do you think my Lycan vote is bad or my reasons for refusing to give into Dreal when I was scumreading him?

[Bulbazak]

but anyways
the push your making on Lycan is really bad town can do that stuff too and town don't always play optimally :/

I have my reasons for the Lycan push. Is there a reason that you think he might be town?

Like also your stance on Toby is kinda

really

scummy.

I think Toby is being controlled by a town player. Otherwise, I'm not too interested in shaking that tree.

[Bulbazak]

multiball
ya'll

Why is that something you're even thinking about?

[Bulbazak]

I'll consider it more in full when we have undeniable evidence that it exists. Until then, I'm not making that assumption.

[Bulbazak]

Bulb, mind giving me some more info on why Lycan?

Not at this time. Trust me on this one. I know what I'm doing.

[Bulbazak]

The vigilante potential by itself is why I think the chance of multiball is slim. We may be looking at a potential SK, but that'd be about it in my mind. If multiple factions start flipping, then I'll reevaluate, but until then, I just want to focus on catching scum in general.

[Bulbazak]

Mastina!

[Bulbazak]

Explain Lycan.

[Bulbazak]

Um? He didn't say a thing about you.

[Bulbazak]

Dude, I'm not voting you anymore. I think you're town now.

[Bulbazak]

And if you're referring to Lycan, then you seriously need to explain why you now miraculously read him as town.

[Bulbazak]

I unvoted when I started noticing frustration from your slot that read as town. Just because you don't know what I'm doing doesn't mean that there isn't a method behind it.

[Bulbazak]

Not Mafia might be scum, too.

[Bulbazak]

I get kneejerked scumread all the time. Then scum jump on. I use my wagon to sort people and PoE scum later on in the game. I'm going to be playing fast and loose this game phase and use what I learn to solidify things later on.

[Bulbazak]

Not_Mafia is a member of the town.

I didn't see that. Thank you.

Mod, do replacements to the game get any insight into the answers their slot provided to the questionaire?

We did indeed. I got WhyMafia's answers though honestly from what I read of the questionnaire I don't see anything in it which is honestly that important one way or another. (Basically I don't see the harm in sharing but I also don't really see a benefit in sharing so I'm indifferent to it--if there's general consensus to do one over the other then I'll do that but I don't know what general consensus would be right now, so.)

There are roles that benefit from knowing such information. I'll leave whether you want to reveal and how much to your discretion, although I think it's more likely that town will benefit from such knowledge more than scum.

Although, I am curious about what questions your predecessor submitted.

[Bulbazak]

I voted no on mod lies.

[Bulbazak]

@Mastin: Now that you've proved your double voterness, can you move those votes to Lycan for me? I want to light a fire under him.

[Bulbazak]

So...vote NM?

[Bulbazak]

Hey Drealz! I could use some help with Lycan.

[Bulbazak]

Don't you think he's scum?

[Bulbazak]

Don't you think he's scum?

irrelevant to mine own posteth

It's very relevant.

[Bulbazak]

No, but for someone who claimed to have a strong scumread on Lycan, your reluctance is offputting. Therefore, whether or not you think he's scum is very relevant to this discussion.

[Bulbazak]

Do you think Lycan's scum? Y/N

[Bulbazak]

And Lycan is voting me. So either you believe we're uber-bussing for no apparent reason, or your reads are wrong somewhere. I'm also not getting lynched today, while the fire is getting ready to be turned up on Lycan. I expect Desp will jump off me soon, and I do expect Mastin to take the hint at what I'm doing and place both of her votes on Lycan. I'm asking you to put your money where your mouth is and vote Lycan. Otherwise, I have to question the validity of your read.

[Bulbazak]

simply, one SR doesn't exclude anoth'r SR at this stage of the game

Okay then. Why is Lycan scum?

Your are both loud boisterous people If we lynch one of you and they flip scum we prolly wont lynch the other person the next day!

How is Lycan loud and boisterous? He's hardly said anything.

vax, 'r those gents couldst beest on diff'rent scum teams, too

Multiball is not proven. I'm getting tired of you acting like it is.

[Bulbazak]

^This guy gets it.

[Bulbazak]

bulb, learneth the defintion of the w'rd "could"

grant you mercy

If it was just one instance, that'd be okay. But you've been focusing on multiball for awhile now.

My role confuses me.

VOTE: Mulch

Policy train a go-go!

I might have 2 other scum reads, but I want to give them room to develop. Several townreads, though.

This is odd. At the time of this post who were the other 2 potential reads pls

Dreal and Dunker. I took the time to sort Dreal later, and I'm starting to develop a townread on Dunker. But again, giving that room to develop.

He's too panicky. It makes me think the Wish Granter is likely not real. And even if it is, I don't care enough to keep Mulch alive.

No shit it's not real omg why is this a post

Dreal literally asked me why I was voting Mulch in the post before this one.

Eddie takes time to develop. If he's not producing content by the midpoint of d2, then I agree that we lynch him with fire.

Also, I strongly disagree with one of your early townreads.

P-edit: That's a lie, Chess. This is the only game Eddie's playing in, and I just double checked his posting on site, and the only non-game post was him /inning into Paint Mafia.

[Bulbazak]

Eddie doesn't hate being scum. In fact, he's cocky enough to think he's good at it.

[Bulbazak]

Maybe the meta has changed in my absence but you don't join another game if you're failing to produce any content in the one you're in.

Coming back to this, because it was that bad. You do know people can play in multiple games, right?

Moving along, DunkerDoodles is and has been town AF since very early why are you just now developing a townread?

Didn't say I was developing it just now. In fact, I've been very quiet about my reads this game. But while Dreal has been off talking about how everyone but him is bad, I've already sorted most of the game.

If my vote is needed for a bulb lynch, I'll go there. However, I'm still really interested in a Toby lynch. Also now, really interested in a Gin lynch.

Why Toby?

Because it's easy and helps her to avoid giving a stance on any other player. In fact, here's a challenge Eddie: Go through Chickadee's ISO once game starts and see if you can find her giving any stances on anything other than mechanics or Toby.

[Bulbazak]

@Eddie: Also, pay attention to how she shifts over the next couple of days.

Just going to hot drop the reads I have so far. Snarky, Sly, Vecna, Mario, and Dan are all town. Dreal is likely town as well, although if we do get confirmation of multiball, I'll need to revisit this. I think Eddie might be town here, but only because I think he chose town on the survey to increase the odds that we'd land the same alignment. I believe he knew that I was really not interested in playing scum this game. Same deal for Alisae. I know from Day and Night that she doesn't really like scum, so I think she opted for town or some sort of survivor role here. I also think Mastina is probably town, mainly due to the way she entered the game. I don't think she'd deal with the questionarre in the same way as scum. She'd be displaying more confidence, and it's apparent that she has no idea what to do with the information she's got. I might need to reevaluate later, because this is Mastina we're talking about, but I'm feeling pretty confident here. I'm leaning town on Midget and Dunker. They're both almost there, but I want to see more. Mulch is also likely town, but he's a good vig or policy target, and like I said, how he's claimed doesn't sit well with me. My strongest scumread is Chickadee. Everyone else I'm still working on.

[Bulbazak]

Desp either sees what I'm doing, or he's going to where the river's flowing. Either way, welcome to the team.

[Bulbazak]

@Eddie: Also, pay attention to how she shifts over the next couple of days.

Just going to hot drop the reads I have so far. Snarky, Sly, Vecna, Mario, and Dan are all town. Dreal is likely town as well, although if we do get confirmation of multiball, I'll need to revisit this. I think Eddie might be town here, but only because I think he chose town on the survey to increase the odds that we'd land the same alignment. I believe he knew that I was really not interested in playing scum this game. Same deal for Alisae. I know from Day and Night that she doesn't really like scum, so I think she opted for town or some sort of survivor role here. I also think Mastina is probably town, mainly due to the way she entered the game. I don't think she'd deal with the questionarre in the same way as scum. She'd be displaying more confidence, and it's apparent that she has no idea what to do with the information she's got. I might need to reevaluate later, because this is Mastina we're talking about, but I'm feeling pretty confident here. I'm leaning town on Midget and Dunker. They're both almost there, but I want to see more. Mulch is also likely town, but he's a good vig or policy target, and like I said, how he's claimed doesn't sit well with me. My strongest scumread is Chickadee. Everyone else I'm still working on.

this is a bunch of empty nothing
pretending to be something

Thanks for confirming that you're really not doing any comprehensive reading this game. It helps explain why you've missed so much. Instead of trying to parse my analysis and critically dealing with it, you've just dismissed it whole hand. Heck, if you actually had taken the time to go through what I wrote, I would have expected a certain type of question or push from you, but the fact that hasn't come means that you're not even trying to read me at this point.

bulba is probs just town being obstinate

With Dreal? Can't argue that. But it's all been explained why I've done so. When I was pushing Dreal, I felt that he was trying to look for something to latch onto in order to argue himself out of a hole. That's why I didn't tell him why I was scumreading him, because I didn't want to give him a smokescreen to hide in. He didn't ask me "Why are you scumreading me?" or "Explain your vote.", rather he asked me to give him a case, as if I had an A to B case at that point in the game. I saw a player who was looking for weaknesses he could exploit to discredit my push, and I didn't want to give him an inch. As for Lycan, I had been upfront with Eddie that I wasn't going to reveal my reasons for voting him at that time, and I had just recently told Mastina that I wanted her votes on Lycan to "light a fire under him". Dreal asking for a case soon after was redundant and absurd. That's why I asked if he was still scumreading Lycan and why. For someone who professed to have a strong scumread there, he sure seemed to be trying to do anything but vote there.

Dreal can be best described as a player who thinks too highly of himself, yet he keeps forgetting to ask the right questions or observe what is really going on around him. He's also very active and does wield some degree of influence in this game, although I'm skeptical about how long that will last. It's that influence that I think scum will start to latch onto, and they're going to start using him as a puppet soon, if it hasn't started to happen already.

And hey, Screen's vote makes me think I may have stumbled onto something with Lycan and we have a legit counter situation happening right now. We're going to get a lot of information out of these wagons.

[Bulbazak]

That's what I thought immediately when NM said he knew for sure there were mod lies. For the moment, I'd like to believe enough people voted against there being mod lies, because otherwise, that might make this game more difficult than it has any right to be.

[Bulbazak]

bulba were you and eddie scum in Hunger Games?

We were. Still sore about getting snubbed for that scummy. Was there a point here?

MM4, as much as I wanted to see it happen, I think you're barking up the wrong tree.

I'm gonna tip the scales toward the bulba wagon.
VOTE: Bulbazak

This day really did slip by, or maybe I was sleeping for most of it, but it's time to make real choices, and Toby is not happening today.

Wow. Who could have seen that one coming?

Votes for them clearly count.

I don't like the Bulbazak lynch. I don't think he's "playing dumb"- regardless of if you agree with him his stances seem realistic enough.

Toby's not happening. What do you think about Lycan?

[Bulbazak]

liketh those gents seeth mastina on th're with doublevotes and knoweth the lady's not going to beest 'back at t' with expediency so those gents're trying f'r an alt'rnative wagon to lycan since that gent as an alt'rnate to bulba didn't w'rk

Lycan wasn't an alternative to me. I was an alternative to Lycan. My wagon really didn't start picking up steam until after I asked Eddie to join me on Lycan and started really adding fire to that wagon. At that point it was only you, Desp, and Lycan on me. Lycan's vote was due to my push on him, and Desp's wasn't serious. Meanwhile I was pushing a serious wagon on Lycan with the aid of Dan, Vax, and Eddie, and I had just asked Mastin to move both her votes there as well. The wagon on me didn't become serious until Chess added his vote there, and I have my suspicions on his real motives there. And you can't say that the Lycan wagon isn't working, because it's currently 1 behind mine, and it's only going to grow as we get closer to deadline. I agree that the Vecna votes are stupid, but it's only really coming from Dunker, so I don't think it's that big a deal or even an attempt at trying to derail one of the current main contenders. Unless you think Dunker is scum, in which case you need to explain yourself.

Wow. Who could have seen that one coming?

Not like I stated intent to vote you a while back or anything.

The sass is not necessary.

You were feeling out a vote on me when new momentum was aimed my way. If you were thinking of getting off Toby, you would have done so then. You were preparing for a jump when the time was right to ward off any suspicion.

2.) I trusteth not Snarky enow f'r this at this pointeth, v'ry well couldst just beest scum yond wanteth to useth the situation as an advantage, possibly hoping toby doesn't flip gleek'r (I wouldn't beest surpris'd if 't be true that gent's not gleek'r but eke yond Snarky doesn't has't the info that gent hast claim'd to), I bethink not t gets us anywh're with Snarky eith'r way with any assuredness, and is m're likely a dang'rous lynch

Are you starting to think Snarky is scum now? Why?

[Bulbazak]

fie, duh, anyone can beest scum at this pointeth, wherefore wouldst I exclude consid'ring Snarky as a possibility?
aye i has't 3 TRs voic'd but coequal those aren't writ in stone

For someone who pitched a fit when I refused to give him reasons for my reads, you sure do like to not give reasons for yours. Heck, from the sounds of it, you're avoiding giving a stance on Snarky altogether.

The wagon on me didn't become serious until Chess added his vote there, and I have my suspicions on his real motives there.

Lmao. That's a very interesting perception you have of how the holdover RVS wagon was this srs wagon that I came in with my agenda and detailed.

In a word...no

You identified Dreal as the player that was best to side with, and then you buddied him like no tomorrow.

[Bulbazak]

I've said Dreal was town. Where are you getting that I'm calling him scum?

[Bulbazak]

I've explained why I withheld both times. You're just not paying attention, or refusing to at this rate.

[Bulbazak]

no, you've given lame ass excuses
a tactic scum typically uses

Yeah, I think I made the right decision not telling you why I was voting you way back when. Talking to you is like banging my head against the wall.

P-edit: The sharp turnaround on Dreal's Lycan scumread is kinda amazing, though.

[Bulbazak]

2.) what the hell art thee talking about? thou art just spewing tush tush the horror h're

You've been attacking every new voter on the Lycan wagon and calling it a wagon that was built up to counter me. Sounds very much like you're not scumreading him anymore.

[Bulbazak]

Why a townread on snarky and sly? Seems to me they havent done much, and snarky has mainly been hiding behind his posting restriction without actually doing much.

Snarky has been doing a bit, and he's very similar to how I've seen him as town. That was actually a pretty easy read. Sly's been trying a bit here and there, and do sense that he's trying to engage and figure things out. I don't have much experience with him, but I'm definitely getting some sincerity tone-wise.

The same question for your lean on random.

Gut? I do have some experience with him, and this does seem like his town game, but I really haven't seen enough to really nail that down. So going with my gut on this one and saying likely town.

How come mulch is likely town even though you dont like his claim?

Because even though I think his claim is likely to be false, I think he did it for panicky/trolly town reasons and not panicky scum ones. That being said, I'm not opposed to him being vigged.

Also, care to elaborate on your read on Chickadee? I was the only one to catch on to her being scum in a very recent game with her - and her behaviour this game is something totally different from what I can see.

Chickadee has only focused on mechanics and, prior to me, her focus has been on lynching Toby, a non-player slot that was likely to not give as much information as an actual player. She's been on the sidelines and avoiding the actual events of the game. I've been the only other player she's placed a vote on, and she took her time feeling that one out when I had a lot of attention.

unvote
vote: lycan

Im also still wondering why people are picking up a lot on inactive slots, but are completely ignoring this one.

Desperado definately lurks as scum, and hasnt done anything so far this game. Would like to get some more votes here.

I'm giving Desp a day, because I want to take my time with that read. Also, I'm waiting for something from him. If he still hasn't picked up the pace by d2, I'll join you on the wagon.

[Bulbazak]

As for your answers Balba - ok. Not the most sturdy of reasoning everywhere, but I can at least see where youre coming from on most of them.

It's d1. I don't expect many reads to be all that sturdy. I'm still in the process of sorting.

As for chickadee, check out her type of talking as scum in Breaking bad Mafia (small theme that recently'ish finished) - the tone and type of engagement are a lot more advanced there - and you can see she is very capable of pulling a "hide in plain sight" trick on pretty much everyone if she tries. I do not think she's just trying a completely new approach here as scum that is different to that extent.

Do you think she would only focus on mechanics and not on things going in the game as town?

[Bulbazak]

@Vecna: But you've been approaching things from the angle of making things easier for town PRs. That's how I got the strong townread on you. I wasn't getting anything of substance from Chickadee. However, I'll trust you on this and give her some more time to stabilize. There are other interesting things happening with these wagons anyway.

[Bulbazak]

It can be requested. I asked for a record of mine after filling it out.

[Bulbazak]

You mean as in the google questionnaire, or as in from the mod?

The mod sent me an imgur link that showed my answers from the google survey.

[Bulbazak]

Especially if it helps the questionnaire roles get results.

[Bulbazak]

@Vecna: That ^. That is why. Midget wouldn't need to double check meta to figure out a read if he was scum.

P-edit: Desp, you just ruined my placement!

[Bulbazak]

Lycan wagon is lazy as hell and I don't like it.

[Bulbazak]

"We don't have time to talk about mechanics, questions, and such. We don't have a lot of time!
...
Don't compromise on Lycan! That's lazy!"

[Bulbazak]

I wouldn't. I'm pretty sure Mario is town here.

[Bulbazak]

Talking about mechanics doesn't find scum. Lazily hopping on the easy wagon doesn't find scum.

There are 2 wagons, and it's crunch time. You attacked an earlier wagon that was just starting before as well. The thing is, you are urging people to compromise, unless it's on the wagon you don't like, and then it's lazy.

And the mechanics in question were directed to help certain town PRs find scum. You were quick to shut that down. You know who else was quick to shut down mechanic discussion that was focusing on the town/scum question? Lycan.

P-edit: Nah. You're just scum. You made that clear with that awful lie earlier.

[Bulbazak]

The 2 reads are unconnected. Don't pull that crap.

[Bulbazak]

Your being scum is not connected to Lycan being scum. Stop playing stupid. It's beneath you.

[Bulbazak]

You wanna help string up Chesskid day 2? I have a very strong feeling that is scum.

Ya think? I don't think he thought anyone would call him out on that "Posting elsewhere" lie. Chess has been here long enough that he knows exactly what that implies. There's no way that wasn't dishonest.

P-edit: I can think people are scum for different reasons and not think they're connected. Seriously. This is basic stuff, Chess.

[Bulbazak]

I mean, this is some seriously stretched bull crap you're trying to pedal here.

[Bulbazak]

How does that help him at all as scum? He could just say he had a townread on me and not bother with that.

[Bulbazak]

You didn't provide a different reason you provided the same reason, though, that's the thing. And now this bonus reason yay goody!

So because I made a comparison, I must now think you're on a scum team together? Please. And that "bonus reason" is actually one of the real reasons I think you are scum. My reasons for you being scum are independent for my reasons for thinking Lycan might be scum. This is scumhunting 101: Scum reads do not have to be and are not connected.

And yes, actively posting on site when you are on a lazy wagon and day is ticking down IS scummy. That is not disingenous to imply, that is FACT.

Except he wasn't actively posting. There you are lying again and trying to imply something which you know just isn't true. Eddie made 1 post just a few minutes before you implied he was active, and he had not been posting anywhere else on site. Even if he had finished posting "/in" and then started reading from where he left off, odds are that he still wouldn't have been able to post. You've been on the site long enough that you know saying "Hey, X is posting elsewhere on site but not here!" is shorthand for the player in question actively posting multiple times in multiple locations and that said player has been avoiding this game. That was not the case here, and anyone who took the time to look up Eddie's posting history would have seen that was not the case. What you did was scummy and not indicative of a town mindset at all. You were trying to get a lynch in the most underhanded manner possible and hoping no one would notice.

[Bulbazak]

Confusion =/= scum hedging

[Bulbazak]

I'm waiting for Mastina, tbh.

[Bulbazak]

You were trying to get a lynch in the most underhanded manner possible and hoping no one would notice.

Man what? People can look at posting history's for themselves.
I stated, factually, that he was posting on site. See evidence: his post.

He also had not posted for a long time in thread when I posted this. Time uncertain because IDGAF but I read the thread and it didn't contain enough Eddie for my liking. Fact #2

So it's great and all and he came in, and if he was townposting that's the end of that. So he's not.

You act like someone says "X is posting elsewhere" and everyone else just abandonds logic and quicklynches them. What was that you said about me? Stop playing dumb? Well call me rubber because ur glue.

You said that he was posting elsewhere on site and used that as a reason that Dreal should scumread him. The implication was that he was actively avoiding this game, which one post is not evidence of. You knew what you were really saying when you made that post. You don't get to say "Well, surely nobody's

that

stupid. It's not like they'd believe me or anything." and "Well,

technically

I was correct. He did post (once) elsewhere on site.". It's pretty obvious what your intention there was.

This is scumhunting 101: Scum reads do not have to be and are not connected.

This is also stupid considering the primary scumread on me was supposedly because I don't want to have game wifom talk and neither does Lycan and that's I guess a scumtell in your book?

Though now it's that I called Eddie out. But still also that I don't want wifom talk.

Can't keep up with you you're just too fast for me

Vroom vroom

The scumread on you was never based on Lycan. I called you out way back on that Eddie bull crap, and I also told Dreal that scum were buddying him. And this was all

before

I said anything concerning your actions in comparison with Lycan. Stop with this BS.

[Bulbazak]

It was fresh on my mind. I just didn't put you on the list. Notice that Lycan is nowhere there as well. I was giving the read time to develop and to make sure I wasn't just OMGUSing.

[Bulbazak]

Dan's never left my town list, and I've said nothing to indicate otherwise.

[Bulbazak]

Try again. Or quote it. I've never expressed any doubt on my Dan townread.

[Bulbazak]

Wrong person. Dude.

[Bulbazak]

I also know how Eddie thinks and how he meant that. That was confusion.

[Bulbazak]

And if he does start to prepare his way to go after Dan, I'll grab the rope myself.

[Bulbazak]

I said I didn't like either wagon. I read Lycan and Bulb as town. That's why I sheeped Snarky.

Why are you reading Lycan as town?

[Bulbazak]

If sly flips town we lynch actiondan with fire.

@Mastina, I think you can trust Bulb and plant your votes on Lycan. When he gets a read, you know he doesn't let it go til he gets what he wants.

Can I blame him if it turns up wrong?
VOTE: Lycanfire x2.

You wouldn't be the only one if that ends up being the case.

If I had gotten that I probably would have used it right away

On who?

@Mulch: I'd like you to state 2 of the questions that you submitted. Please and thank you.

[Bulbazak]

I would like to do a massclaim with that, but it's too late in the day.

[Bulbazak]

The associatives surrounding this wagon are kinda interesting.

[Bulbazak]

There are associations intermingled among both wagons. The problem is that you're not getting the associations you think you are or that you're looking for.

[Bulbazak]

Do you have a townread on Lycan?

[Bulbazak]

votecount (current)

8 players voting for Lycanfire (Vaxkiller, Bulbazak, EddieFenix, Desperado, Vecna, mastina, mastina, MarioManiac4)
5 players voting for Bulbazak (drealmerz7, Lycanfire, Not_Mafia, Srceenplay, Chickadee)
5 players voting for SlySly (Mulch, Dunkerdoodles, randomidget, ActionDan, chesskid3)
2 players voting for Toby Determined (SnarkySnowman, SlySly)
1 player voting for Serious Vote (Toby Determined)

0 players not voting

with 21 votes, it takes 11 to lynch.

day 1 will end in (expired on 2017-09-19 19:30:00).

Snarky and Sly need to move their votes somewhere else. Otherwise, I think we have the votes for Lycan in {Dan, Midget, Dunker} come deadline.

[Bulbazak]

[Bulbazak]

The 2 questions I'll reveal are "Do you think Bulbazak should have a lollipop?" and "Who is your favorite Powerpuff Girl?". Others who haven't revealed at least 2 can if they want.

[Bulbazak]

How's that Open been?

[Bulbazak]

That was rhetorical. God forbid you go into details.

[Bulbazak]

What? Didn't expect me to keep tabs on you when I noticed you were posting in other games?

[Bulbazak]

Mulch, the Sly wagons sucks. Want to vote Srceen with me and see what happens?

[Bulbazak]

Cool. Why were you avoiding this game?

[Bulbazak]

Cool. Why were you avoiding this game?

Their was less than 24 hours left. Waiting on the next day.
That's obvious not the case now.

You had last posted on Sunday at 8:45am EST. Even if the remainder of your V/LA lasted the rest of that day (which it wouldn't, and in which case there would have been no point in you posting "I still have just a tiny bit of V/LA left, but let me hop onto this bandwagon! Got to go! Still on V/LA, you know."), you still would have had Monday and most of today to post. So yeah, I'm not buying that excuse.

Thoughts on Mario guys

Town

[Bulbazak]

VOTE: Srceenplay

Mulch, care to walk on the wild side?

[Bulbazak]

It's the voting the popular wagon, bolting, and then deciding to want to lurk the rest of the day out that I have a problem with.

[Bulbazak]

What's your read on Lycan?

[Bulbazak]

Uh huh.

[Bulbazak]

You're not on a better one.

[Bulbazak]

Sloppy? Can you expound on that please?

[Bulbazak]

He just said "You'll be sorry".

[Bulbazak]

I think people are just feeling things out while we wait for a replacement.

[Bulbazak]

How's it worse than the Sly wagon?

[Bulbazak]

Fair. I just want to explore some of my other reads while Lycan is getting replaced. But at the same time, that wagon has generated a lot of info by itself, that I'm not sure if I should just ignore it.

[Bulbazak]

So Bulba's still alive, that's a thing

So you're still being useless. That's a thing.

[Bulbazak]

[Bulbazak]

tactical NK's taking out the active players leaves behind a group of apathetic players that WILL just policy lynch those slots and loose town the game by default.

Yeah, that's actually how the scum team won Night and Day. They took out the players who gave a crap about the game, framed actions perfectly, and then made sure I was discredited and set up perfectly for the coup de gras.

[Bulbazak]

[Bulbazak]

[Bulbazak]

Um...What?

Also disappointed that Mastin hasn't posted again yet. I was expecting something today and was hoping she'd catch up with the thread so we can talk about things.

[Bulbazak]

People are trying to start it up.

[Bulbazak]

How do you come up with the first pass? Were you skimming the game before? Is it who you like? Past X many pages? What?

[Bulbazak]

More experienced player, which should make the game more interesting. Plus, gives me something to read and interact with.

[Bulbazak]

So I say I want to policy Mulch, vote him, yet when I get a strong scumread in Dreal, I unvote Mulch and vote my scumread. Only after Dreal does something that changes my read do I unvote. I then vote Lycan, and...then what? I move my vote a bunch more? Is that it? Because until recently, I was firmly on that one wagon and hard pushing it. So do you want to run that by me again? If you have questions regarding my read changes and pushes, go right ahead. But don't say that you don't like my progression and then do jack squat to try to understand it.

[Bulbazak]

@Mastin: What would you like to do content/game-wise? I'm pretty interested in talking things out with you, but I also want you to be able to go at your own pace.

[Bulbazak]

there are a couple of posts/things that have my attention.

What's up, Eds?

[Bulbazak]

If I were to revote Llamarble, it'd only because that's what the gamestate is telling me, and not any sort of read on the slot.

[Bulbazak]

I thought it was just me telling you. What of the gamestate was telling you to vote there?

[Bulbazak]

Bulba "my role is confusing" at least doesn't count against him? For primary scumteam anyway.

Heck yes it was confusing! When the mod formats a role PM in such a way that you're not sure what alignment you are, there's something wrong. I had no idea whether I was town, scum, or some strange third party, a problem that was exacerbated by the entire PM being written in the mod's color, a deep red, with no coloration for role itself (green, red, etc.) or the name of the faction in front of the role. I had to read closely and pay special attention to my wincon just to figure out I may be town, and then I still had to ask the mod. Add to that, my role itself could have been better worded. I played half the day thinking I did one thing, and then found out that I did something similar but different.

726 from bulba is pretty bad. "Toby is town (for a lame speculative reason) but you can vig him if you want"
Bulba can you explain
A: why you think Toby's role strangeness is sufficient for him being a bad lynch
B: Why, if he is a bad lynch, vigging him (which has the same effect as a lynch) would be okay?

A.) Because he's essentially informationless. It doesn't matter whether the slot is controlled by a player, one of the mods, or is a sentient AI who just wants to find love, Toby is unlikely to have any bearing on the primary goal on finding and eliminating the scum in this game. Lynching it would essentially constitute lynching an empty slot, when our time could have best been used reading and figuring out the other players in the game.
B.) Because one of the functions of a vig is to eliminate contentious slots so that town doesn't have to deal with them. Policy players, empty slots, 3rd parties. Anything that would distract the town during the later stages of the game can be taken care of at night by a vig. There are also less strings attached to a player slot dying at night rather than being lynched. If there's a question over whether or not it's safe to lynch a slot, a vig can take care of that same slot with a smaller chance of the kill bringing on negative consequences.

Why is Bulba defending Eddie from chesskid. Eddie is clearly one of the best lynch options at this time. "wait until day 2" is yucky here.
Chesskid has joined Dreamer to form the Army of Sanity and Justice.

Chess lied about Eddie's activity on site in an effort to stimulate a wagon on him. There's no way that's coming from a town slot, and I can't see how you'd think so.

bulbz is scum because like chick said
he's hopping around from bed to bed
his excuses for shifting are weak and seem fabricated
I've not gotten a single town ping from him, it's all manipulated

Okay. How have I hopped around? Because I've mainly been on 3 people all game. And let's say that for some reason I was hopping around like some strange version of the Mafiascum easter bunny, how is that scummy?

not to mention the fact that there was a survivor team in the first version of this game and it wouldn't be weird at all for xyzzy to have put another one in

How would a survivor team even work? I thought the whole point of survivor was being by yourself and making it to the end. Would the whole team have to survive? A certain percentage? One? Inquiring minds want to know!

[Bulbazak]

GD=General Discussion

[Bulbazak]

No, you're the one saying I'm hopping around and that is bad. You need to defend that statement, dear sir, because this is the first time you've strayed into the realm of pure crap.

[Bulbazak]

Also, Bulb, now that Lycan is gone, care to explain why/what exactly made you go after them now?

Pressure.

[Bulbazak]

That's it. Granted, things got a whole lot more interesting around the wagon, where a lynch would have given us a ton of info, but none of that came from the slot.

[Bulbazak]

And that's when you drink.

[Bulbazak]

Could just be making something out of nothing so that there are future avenues to push.

[Bulbazak]

So what did you think of all that stuff that happened around that wagon?

[Bulbazak]

survivor hunting seems like something scum would want to do, not town. That's what really bothered me about Vecna post, and I don't know why people are continuing to endorse it.

I really don't care one way or the other about the survivor discussion.

[Bulbazak]

Don't know why that quote is still there. Ignore it.

[Bulbazak]

Bulbazak where does your mysterious Mario townread come from?

This feels similar to the town Mario I've played with in the past. But specifically, I thought his early game PR mistake and fix were indicative of a town thought process coming from Mario, and I think how he answered Mulch's "are you town?" question was not scum-indicative. He's either trolling town there or a third party, but I don't think he gives that answer as scum.

I'm a bit curious about this relationship. Is this "I'll trust you" a towntell from Eddie? Unsure.

It's probably more null. What

is

going to be alignment indicative is how he reacts to the whole pressure revelation.

[Bulbazak]

Bulba wagon sure had awesome people on it... It's pretty suspicious that it looks possibly wholly devoid of scum? Like, mayyybe Src or D7 or something but honestly I would not be at all surprised if that is 6 townies voting for a player without a single scum helping them. I guess I need to read Bulba more!!

I'm thinking there are likely 2 scum there. I didn't really like the build up starting with Chess on.

[Bulbazak]

"Skeptical how long influence will last" is interesting though.

I think that either events will take place after this day phase that make players disregard Dreal more, the scattered strong town that are in the game start getting together and playing better starting on d2, or scum turn on him. Already we're seeing Dreal lacking the influence he had earlier in the day, so I don't think I'm going to be far off here. I'm leaning towards stronger town taking over the game in the next day or so, or for the scum team to start turning on Dreal in the next couple of game days.

[Bulbazak]

Yes, it was for pressure. When I told you I couldn't tell you why I was voting for Lycan and I just needed you to trust me, that was for pressure. I wasn't going to say so out loud, because then it wouldn't be as effective. When I asked Mastin to plant both of her votes on Lycan to "turn up the heat", I was asking for an increase in pressure. Then Chess entered and buddied up to Dreal, and Desperado voted Lycan, and then the floodgates opened on me. And I'm sitting here, looking at some very scummy votes that just materialized on me out of nowhere and thinking, "What have I stumbled onto?". And I'm just waiting for something from Lycan, because that's what I was waiting for the whole time, and there are tons of reactions and townreads materializing on the spot out of nowhere. So at the end I was pushing less because of Lycan and more because that lynch now magically sheds a lot of light on the game state. The only reason I unvoted was because I wanted to see what Marble did, and truth be told, I'm kinda meh there.

[Bulbazak]

It doesn't matter what you buy. That's what it was. Heck, you could have inferred that way back when I told Mastin I wanted her votes to "turn up the heat".

[Bulbazak]

Dreal's had a hard on for multiball for awhile now.

[Bulbazak]

@Eddie: I know you're still around. I want to get your thoughts on things that were happening around that Lycan wagon.

[Bulbazak]

@Vecna: Nah, Chess is just scum.

[Bulbazak]

He's looking for angles to push later on down the line that he can make appear important but are actually insignificant. Look at the Eddie activity push, for instance. He just says "He's posting elsewhere on the site.", implying that Eddie is active across the site and just ignoring this game based on scum motivation. The reality is that Eddie posted once just to /in into a second game. The same thing is happening here. He's pushing your interest in survivors as being something town should have no interest in, even though there are many players across the site who like to A.) know exactly what they're dealing with as town and B.) would want to identify survivors in addition to scum, because they view them as lesser scum and want to eliminate them as well. In fact, interest in finding survivors is not that uncommon with older players, so how Chess is getting to this being scum motivated is hard to believe. In essence, it's really a non-issue that could be coming from any alignment, and Chess would know that. And as a survivor, I don't think he'd care as much, as he'd just be trying to fit in.

[Bulbazak]

I can't remember if I've played with Chess since Fire Emblem: Awakening, and he was town there. But he was extremely strong town and immediately apparent. I'm not getting that here, and like I've said, I'm not seeing town motivation for a lot of his actions.

[Bulbazak]

I can't remember if I've played with Chess since Fire Emblem: Awakening, and he was town there. But he was extremely strong town and immediately apparent. I'm not getting that here, and like I've said, I'm not seeing town motivation for a lot of his actions.

You were town and voted honorary scum mvp as I recall?

The difference here is you, not me.

:/

My hydra was the only one that married scum and produced a scum child, which we didn't know at the time and were blind to. During the course of the game we got a tracker guilty on scum and were instrumental to forming the town bloc that ended up winning the game. However, we were also constantly being attacked by 2 other slots that were town but trying to undermine everything. We ended up being night killed, but one of the last things I said before the end of the previous day was the steps town had to take to win the game, and I listed both scum in the family PT as part of the PoE, as we excluded them from the town bloc. We got a ton of hate that game for essentially not noticing the scum that were essentially staying in our blind spot all game, even though we helped set in motion the tools town used to actually go on and win.

FE:A, along with Marvel Avengers Alliance, are both responsible to my shift in playstyle towards favoring PoE, as it was instrumental in breaking those games wide open.

[Bulbazak]

No, we were blinded by the scum team and ineffectual in that regard. But along with Nacho/Mastin, we did help put together the town bloc that helped to win the game. My point is that the hate we got in that game was extreme and unrealistic, and all revolving around us being wrong on our Maestro read, which blinded us on Penguin.

[Bulbazak]

Anyway, this is not the time or place to discuss this. My point is that I don't remember playing another game with you besides that one, although it's possible, and your play here is nowhere near the same.

[Bulbazak]

Also just did a double check through your topics, and we were in L4D together. And I still had you as town. So yeah, feeling pretty confident in my read here, even though you're trying to discredit me while simultaneously calling me scum.

[Bulbazak]

plus with the wagon having quite the difficulty going to lynch, yep, did bind to beest scum

That would apply more to Lycan/Marble than it would to me. My wagon's broken up and come back together multiple times. The Lycan wagon has been constant, but has constantly stalled. It's the difference between fickleness and actual resistance.

a tough to-get going wagon ALL DAY, if town it'd have gone in a pinch

I'm a tough wagon regardless of my alignment.

VOTE: Llamarble

I've just been going over this the last couple of day, and I'm just going with the game state on this one. I've found Marble to be meh overall since replacing in, and there's not another viable wagon that I feel good about joining. I'm no longer as jazzed about Screen as I was, and I've just been using this wagon position as a way to analyze everything. I just couldn't see myself voting any other way.

[Bulbazak]

I'm a tough wagon regardless of my alignment.

And Llarmbles isnt?

Marble has the leftover Lycan wagon. The issue in question isn't whether Marble is a tough wagon regardless of alignment, but rather if Lycan is. I don't believe that to be the case.

[Bulbazak]

Lycan got to 9 tops, and then stalled. And before that, it was just a slog to build up. The biggest bit of momentum was Eddie and Desp voting, and I had asked Mastin to join at that point. That's also when Chickadee and Screen jumped on me to counter balance. I get that there might be resistance if you were playing the entire time, but there was nothing coming from that slot. I was continually fighting my wagon. Meanwhile, town reads started coming out of the woodwork on Lycan, who was not posting, and no one explained them. So essentially, there's a wagon that keeps stalling on a non-existent player, with other players that townread or counter the wagon when it gets big, yet no one can explain why.

[Bulbazak]

Focusing on figuring out the path to manipulate votes to get the lynch you want early in the day instead of focusing on reading the game does not reflect well on Bulba at all.
I'd go so far as to say counting votes to identify which wagon can be made to work (especially so early) is very strongly in the Things Scum Do Considerably More Than Town category.

Knowing the game state enough to know why certain players are voting the way they are and how they might change their vote over time is not scummy. It just means I'm paying attention. At that point in time, the major shift onto me hadn't taken place yet, and I was still trying to get some pressure onto Lycan to get a better read. I did not feel in any danger, and I was trying to explain to Dreal why not and why his vanity wagon wasn't going to go anywhere, while trying to appeal to his scumread of Lycan to, again, apply more pressure.

And it is a very useful skill to recognize when a wagon or read isn't viable to be pushed, especially as you get closer to endgame. So while I recognize that Chess and Chickadee are both most assuredly scum, I also recognize that the chances of steering a wagon around onto them are slim to none this late in the day. It's a matter of reading the game closely, and it's actually widely used as both alignments, not to manipulate votes, but to say "this is how things are going to play out based on what I've seen in the thread and what I know about the other players.". The difference is that scum do so much more subtly.

[Bulbazak]

Now, as an additional example, here's Ginngie from Night and Day:

NOW

That means with Alisae moving off of texcat, the TB wagon is now tied for the largest wagon.

This means, there is no longer the excuse to say this is a vanity wagon as it is now the top contender to be lynched today.

Alisae thank you very much, t'was a very important vote tbh.

Now, that means we need 6 more people to get this thing through.

nancy will probs be slightly stubborn but regardless of alignment she is willing to sheep me cuz lolz so that's another vote.

We need 5 more and I fully believe I'll be able to convince QR of what's up because it's a simple demand and they're not pushing anything hardcore.

The last 4, I'd say I get support from Titus after quick talking too and I also expect a little stubborness from Kelvin but an understanding at my point as into why I'm saying he is scum is true, thus two more votes on the board.

Now we get to L-2 and the fun happens. One of the non-voters will most likely join this wagon like Eddie who I can personally talk too or BTD who is lurkfesting to the point where they might just sheep up their bootstraps.

If that doesn't work out then Bulba will come around even though he'll be wary of Titus, the great part is that this interaction will be the important bit for later on in the game.

but yee, the last person will be any one person, couldn't say but Im okay with cuz they're gonna know what's up.

So yeah, that's my battle plan so just be prepared and if you want to save time just vote early, ballots will online start of midnight.

She was town.

[Bulbazak]

And the point fails, because you're pulling an example from earlier in the game where I tell Dreal that my wagon isn't going to work and why. Essentially, I told Dreal that his was the only real vote on me. Desp was RVS, and by extension, would most likely be moved, and Lycan was a counter-vote. So telling Dreal "Hey, this wagon on me is going to fail and here's why. Now why don't you make yourself useful and jump on your other scumread." is not scummy, especially when I was trying to apply pressure on the Lycan slot for the sole purpose of reading him better. You're essentially trying to claim that I tried to anticipate where votes would go to try to get a Lycan lynch and disband my own wagon, even though the votes that started the process of making my wagon a serious one hadn't even landed yet. Heck, Desp hadn't even switched to Lycan, and Eddie had just recently joined on my say so. So this is less "trying to manipulate votes" and more trying to increase the pressure on a hard to read slot to see what will happen.

[Bulbazak]

I take some issue with you voting me instead of trying harder to lynch other people if your feelings on my slot are pressure -> meh result

I really haven't seen anything from you that leapt out as particularly towny. I mean, I don't think it's super scummy either, just meh overall, and I don't think anything you've said here would be outside your range as scum. Right now, I'm trying to get my bearings on the rest of the game state, and your lynch would shed a lot of information there. I know I'm missing scum, and I know the distribution is likely heavily weighted on both of our wagons. The question is in what quantities. I'm thinking no more than 2 on me regardless. If you're scum, then 1 is either bussing or off, gut lean on bussing. If you're not scum, then it's a matter of analyzing the wagon and figuring out if 1 or 2 were sitting there. Overall, I'm thinking we just get a clearer picture of how the game looks.

while you believe Chickadee and Chesskid are scum.

And they have more than enough support to make a lynch today impossible. That's a task that is best suited for another day, and I know it's going to be a fight.

But I see you did vote Screen, which as I've mentioned is a good vote if you are town.

I'm not sure how I feel about Screen anymore. I didn't really like his vote or some of his actions, but I also think that his explanation is somewhat plausible from town.

[Bulbazak]

So I'm not sure what happened with the wagons now. Chess and Chickadee are scum on mine. I don't think there'd be a third, and Screen's looking more and more like confused town. I'm not sure who would be the most likely to be scum on Lycan/Marble. Vax maybe? I think I need to reorient myself, and I don't think I have the time to do it.