The Mod Is Mafia (Game Over)

[Stalfos]

^What does that mean?


I'm going to assume that "can" from Mulch in 80 is supposed to be "can't". No edited tag though.

Welp NotMafia already has a ... 4/13 chance of being scum. Uh...

30% chance

Where did these numbers come from?

[Stalfos]

VOTE: Nosferatu

Oh hey! Was there a reason for this or is naked voting Nos just code for "hello"?

Interesting. I give you the entire floor to explain your emotions and you don't explain crap. Like and RadiantCowbells just takes it? This is not typical RC play at all. Generally He is all "Hey I did good shit" and "I am awesome" and "You should know better Math" and "Cmon that was amazing though right?" Why are you just taking what Yume is suggesting with a joke RC? Plus Titus hasn't said I am scum yet for a completely bullshit reason.
VOTE: RadiantMoonlight

mastina you are...something amazing. Yume's explanation sounded fine to me. Not sure why you'd think it was otherwise. Why did you redirect from Yume to Radiant Moonlight here? Does this mean 102 wasn't actually a joke?

VOTE: If we use vote tags, mastina can't edit/delete our posts.

I don't think this is true. She can't mess with valid votes, but I'm not sure if that means "any text in vote tags".

(also Prism won't be around for a day or so, so until then you just get me!)

[Stalfos]

Do u even read bro? A post doesn't show as edited if you edit it within the first 5 minutes

As of right now Creature's 159 was made on the hour, edited one minute later. I know this because it has an edited tag. Why are you taking Mulch's word as gospel?

mastina you are...something amazing.

This is unnerving.


-Key

[Stalfos]

speaking of the vote thing, that does remind me. We should probably vote or unvote in every post to avoid editing.

UNVOTE:

I don't think that's how it works. Safe from deleting. Not safe from editing.

Why am I scum again? Because I don't see the point in over thinking about something that changed when we have no idea what the motive was and have no way of gleaming that?

It's entirely possible it was edited specifically to move the town dialogue to the fact it was edited.

The issue is that Mulch is saying that his posts are being edited (155) when there's no tag saying they are, and we didn't know under what circumstances that happens. Creature's post is evidence that it's not five minutes because of the timestamps, not because of the content. Like it feels like you've missed the point of the conversation.

I don't think any edited post in particular is supposed to be drawing attention, it's not like it's only one or two.

VOTE: Mulch

Oh god you're still doing it. Why this one?


-Key

[Stalfos]

It wasn't proven false. If it was edited before any other posts were made, there would be no tag, according to camn at least. So they could have been edited or they could have not.

The five minute thing was false but knowing that is NAI.

[Stalfos]

Already gave a heads up to Key but figured I should check in here at some point-I don't really have time to read anything today but I'll be in tomorrow.

RC, what do you think was right and wrong about my read on you in 1805? A lot of your statement I can recall then were very much "I'm better than you/You're still wrong" if I recall correctly rather than constructive.

In particular, what differences should I be looking for in a town-RC, as you presumably are this game?

P-Edit: Maybe this is a bad time for that question. Oh well.

[Stalfos]

In a rush sorry, haven't read what this page is about but want to make it clear I'm not singling you out for fear or whatever. As stated previously I don't give two shits.

Reason I picked you is just because you're the person I'm most familiar with next to camn in the playerlist.

[Stalfos]

Hey N_M can you tell me what about this post:

Whooo 8 pages already.

I think this stuff over creature's post edit is a little overblown right now.

made hebi prime lynch material?
I think I missed you explaining it.

Can you link one time you’ve done it, humor me?

Will you never vote me again for the rest of the game?

That's a pretty bloody excessive demand considering it was a reasonable request from Mulch.


-Key


PEdit: hold up what what's going on what
Why are you intenting to vote
Is she at L-1 or something

[Stalfos]

@N_M 373: ta!

-Key

[Stalfos]

No you're well short. Looks like only four on the wagon from a skim - N_M, camn, Aronis, Nos.

Also @Theta 237 which I intended to respond to earlier then forgot: I'm also rocking a 0% town winrate


-Key

[Stalfos]

Christ, that's a disturbing metaphor. I don't even get it.

-Key

[Stalfos]

a.

If you happened to rephrase b so it made sense, that could impact my answer.

Let's have a Gif party. I'll wait for RC to come around on hebi.

She is beauty and she's grace
She is queen of the wide open space
She is Padparadscha, so hold your case
In my heart she has a place

Yume, do you have an opinion on the game so far?

[Stalfos]

Creature I thought you said something about Theta being different in this game but I can't find the post to quote it so maybe it was deleted. If you did say that and I'm not imagining things, what are the differences you're seeing?

I'm sheeping my smocaine townread mostly, but also I never saw that last post mulch said got edited by edited, even though I was in this thread almost right after mulch posted it.

ur ignoring the fact lol that everyone has talked about

What would that be? Seems pretty clear that she means she thinks there wasn't enough time between you posting it and her seeing it for mastina to have made any changes.


-Key

[Stalfos]

Jesus fucking christ Key wasn't joking, this is awful.

camn mastina can just test the edit parameters herself in a private thread.

Key is confused by the Mulch edit stuff, as am I. I'm not enthusiastic about this game enough to do it myself. Someone check in when the parameters are figured out with a "Yes, he is confirmed lying" or a "No" and then get back to me. If not I can do it myself later.

RC/Mulch is objectively a fine discussion to have that I shouldn't shut down but they're both hard as balls to read and have egos the size of Texas. I think it'd be a lot better if it was Mulch/RC+someone else more readable rather than Mulch+RC.

I'm not seeing Hebi posturing as blatantly a scum move. Think N_M's push on it is a bit too forceful to be legitimate, perhaps just a pressure vote but I don't like it.

Aronis is probably my vote at this juncture, camn townread is weird and out of place. Rest of the posts are just pretty meh so far-no reads I like, lot of basic responses to low-pressure questions.

Lot of posts were deleted by the time I got to them, and I know Aronis's are among them, so we'll see. I have more time now so I can pay more attention to the thread.

VOTE: Aronis

Key might change it when she comes on but for now I'll sit it here. Shortlist is N_M, Aronis, RC, Smocaine. Key was townleaning Smocaine for their attitude/assertiveness but I think that's wrong, RC I think would be throwing gasoline on a fire and while he might be worth a serious vote later for now it'd just be essentially a placeholder.

-Prism

[Stalfos]

Apparently the Mulch post edit thing was NAI nevermind, I'll doublecheck myself later but my mistake.

[Stalfos]

Huh, I dislike your thoughts on Aronis's "weak townread" on Camn. I could easily follow Aronist's thoughts there as Camn has phenomenal tone...

Responding first historically-I honestly didn't (and still don't) see much tonewise that's good behind camn's early posting, especially before 184 when Aronis gave it. 106 I would lean slight negative on, 166 says basically nothing and I don't see any phenomenal tone there. It's important to note that some posts were edited but I doubt they were much better. This one might be entirely due to my own conception of her but I'm decently familiar with camn, she's been so null it hurts and is a silly read.

Thinking more on this question, I actually just don't like camn at all, and I'm fine putting my vote there instead. The "When does mastina sleep? Does mastina know the rule?" comes off pretty fake to me. It's just silly first off, as I mentioned earlier, mastina can test the rule herself with a trivial amount of effort. There's no point in trying to play public keep-away from her. Even beyond that though it just feels off-camn likes to work behind the scenes, and this kind of knowledge is definitely the type to keep to yourself at first to try to spring it unexpectedly. (Ex. Once in a game I wanted a prolonged twilight, purposely tried to get myself hammered knowing the mod was asleep because of his timezone) Drawing attention to what she's doing feels off to me. I wouldn't say I know her inside and out and haven't seen her as scum but I'm fine voting her. Good question.

@camn

: Read above

VOTE: camn

-Prism

[Stalfos]

Also, never played with N_M before, but my regardless my read is accounting for the personality perspective-my point was that I think the forcefulness is fake, but that people oversell their reads as town plenty, in particularly early. (Later I'd consider it less common)

-Prism

[Stalfos]

Those Mulch interactions also have me skeptical. I don't like 475, it's hard to describe but it's the type of thing you do when you know you're supposed to be scared of someone's scumgame but know he endgoal is to get them to townread you.

Real stretch on my end, I think her being legitimate is plausible, but the public posturing with mechanics I still don't like.

[Stalfos]

The rule as to when the edit shows.

[Stalfos]

I find that the reasoning regarding keeping information to yourself to be a bit forced. Thats something that is like such an obscure thing to expect her to sensor her thoughts and scumread her for not doing it accordingly... Unless you had a god-tier meta read on Camn I don't understand how you could expect this?

Not wanting to give the rule away with regards to the edits to mastina was incredibly forced.

Camn is definitely the type to keep more to herself, see my frustration with her basically all of Girls Girls 2. That much does fit with the "I don't want to give the rule away", but that drawing of mastina's attention to it is weird to begin with. Might just be poor play from camn, sure.

[Stalfos]

Ha ha...my post where I exposed the rule got deleted.
Stalfis you are out of your element.

What's your read on me?

[Stalfos]

(Give you up)

[Stalfos]

Never gonna give

[Stalfos]

I would like to say, that besides the logic Stalfos is doing a few "things" I do when I am scum a lot...in terms of certain word choices... hard not to scumread this stuff

Spoiler: don't read if you will be frustrated with lack of explanation

"Honestly"
Doing "i didn't and still dont"
"basically"
"definitely"
The "good question" at the end..

And something maybe I can "explain":

Spoiler:

The "posts might be edited but I doubt they are much better"- It feels as if the mindset here is to anticipate flaws that I might find in their arguement and preemptively refute them. Which is not a natural towny reaction in my honest opinion

Good question is definitely unnatural and a first for me, said because it made me think more on camn. In general I try to do too much by myself as town and not take a more cooperative approach. This is pretty directly influenced by Nacho and trying to incorporate elements of his towngame.

Sample towngame to verify word choice if you feel like it.

If you want a guide to reading Prism I can give you that later tonight when I get back.

lmao on the spoilered

[Stalfos]

This is going to be a real bundle of joy.

[Stalfos]

Shouldn't have made the sarcastic remark, my apologies.

It's fine. I'll respond baselevel to the wall later.

[Stalfos]

I see Prism came by. Not sure on the camn vote but it will remain until I can clarify what's going on there.

I did agree with the Aronis vote. Aronis has made a fair number of posts but they don't seem to be saying anything. 212 was interesting but 384 was like he was avoiding having to actually back up his vote beyond "because sheeping".

However in 422 he says his posts got messed with, presumably referring to 231 and 239. Probably deleted ones as well. Possibly I missed important content there.

Also not particularly a fan of 182 and 250 and the way they set up for not doing anything.

@Aronis: I don't know what your "game content" was that got removed, so you might have already answered this, but why is N_M town and why is hebi scum (apart from the fact that N_M said so, please)?

Well, here's my thinking. I can just keep my vote on Prism. If I'm lynched, and Prism is scum and RC is town, I can be after the game that I played much better than RC. If Prism AND RC are scum, then I can brag after the game that I can read both of them and that if you had listened to me we would have won. If NEITHER are scum... I can still blame RC for having 2 bad reads.


So, there are 3 good outcomes, if I stick my vote on Prism

This is literally the worst and I sincerely hope it is a joke. Do you mind playing the game instead of doing things based on what makes you look good or what you can blame on others postgame?

Also given that of this hydra I'm the easier head to read by

far

and you know that very well, why have you not mentioned any of my posts in your case in 536?

I'm truly sorry if your town, Prism. I really am

? Little early for the apologies, mate.


-Key

[Stalfos]

Hi RC! Try to pocket me and eat rope <3

[Stalfos]

Where'd you go @_@

Give me time to make a cup of tea, jeez. And take unexpected phone calls. And have dinner. Did you want to talk or something?

Ugh the Key part of the hydra is so much townier than the Prism part

Is that why you didn't mention any of my posts?

[Stalfos]

"did you want to talk"
"yes"
*crickets*

Sorry. I'm back now.

You wanted to talk to

me

about what

Prism

thinks? Really?

To answer your question: They see similarities between your scumplay in 1805 and your play here, such as your reluctance to answer questions (300). They think the way you're trying to force players to commit to hard stances such as in 334 instead of letting them feel out the game first is counterproductive as town.

[Stalfos]

Mario did make a nice substantial response to me, explaining her Nos and Mulch votes early on, I liked it but I can't remember what it said and I think it's gone. Would like to hear about the change in read though.

Mulch I wrote something for you and then I thought you went away so I didn't post it. Give me a second.


-Key

[Stalfos]

@Mulch: You create a ton of noise which makes the rest of the game reluctant to play and then you complain when no one follows your reads instead of working with them. Do you even realise you're doing it?

Ugh the Key part of the hydra is so much townier than the Prism part

Not to mention this. You have said before that I'm obvious town and play terribly as scum, and I can even find you the very quote you said it in. That would make me a super easy read for you right? So I asked and you say you think I'm being towny.
Then you're somehow still stubbornly scumreading Prism. Scumreading us is fine. But if we're scum you should be able to read it on me, which you have failed to do despite being prompted. Your read does not take all of the information into account.



@RC: Immediately!

[Stalfos]

Oh god I didn't realise you were getting that specific with your references, very well done
But it's a poacher's saw, you poser.
(she says as she checks the wiki to make sure)


Creature was I right about you making a post on Theta that got deleted?

[Stalfos]

Mulch, any reason you didn't read the towngame I linked you before extrapolating more on my town tendencies? Any reason you hold your beliefs about me at all?

If you read any of my games whatsoever, you'd see that I have a hard time getting into games as town, and lean on the lethargic side. When I get into them I get into them, but those are unfortunately the exception, not the rule, even if I'm working to change it. The fact I'm disengaged and not posting is a bad reversion to old habits, but it's not because I'm scum, it's because of my schedule and the fact that my body is fucking falling apart. You didn't even ever read me in Dystopia, you literally had me as a mechanical clear.

You're claiming here I'm supposed to be some godlike town, but here you were in Dystopia saying shit like this:

Lol

Headline tmrw:



NOT ONLY DOES PRISM VOTE the wrong read because of emotions, they CONVINCE the other town that was just starting to warm up to vic scum to lose the game too.


CAN prism get to THREE hundred percent at fault on tmrw..

You edited Regfan's post to be "Hard to watch Prism", the only compliment you gave you made it clear not to compliment my play but just my effort, and you literally watched me lead town headon into 3 mislynches singlehandedly. You literally spent the whole postgame crying about how bad my townplay is, and lording my scumplay that you've never seen. You accused me of wanting to "slay the beast" and now are basically doing the same thing to me/RC without having any fucking clue about how our scumgames work, and apparently no clue about how my towngame works either.

My worst element as town is my reads, I've said this repeatedly, it's not a secret, and you especially have

no fucking reason

to think otherwise considering what you've seen. GG2 I literally slotted the entire scumteam as my top townreads until the very last day of the game and powertunneled town back to back.

A simple Ctrl+F for your special phrases of any of my towngames reveals them to be language staples.

I'm not saying this to be like "Oh god I suck", because to be blunt I don't give a shit and will improve my reads or die trying, every single time, but because your perceptions of me have

no fucking basis in reality

whatsoever and it's transparently bullshit. I don't know why you'd believe this as town, I don't know why you'd do this as scum, I don't know why you are pushing this at all.

You're playing like steaming dogshit regardless of what you are. Fucking cut it out.

The "Oh Prism doesn't reach here" is also bogus, I am never afraid whatsoever to reach, particularly when I don't have any strong reads. My opening post of GG2 I did it and defended it. My opening post of Buttersnap I did it and actually stuck with it the whole game as it turned out to be correct. I pulled plenty of reaches during Dystopia to see where they'd go, in particular on a Key/Elbirn interaction I didn't like.

Where are these expectations of my town play coming from? Why are you powertunneling my slot for them?

[Stalfos]

NEVER GONNA GIVE YOU UP

[Stalfos]

NEVER GONNA LET YOU DOWN

[Stalfos]

NEVER GONNA RUN AROUND

[Stalfos]

And hurt yooooooou

[Stalfos]

My towngame is demonstrably close to 0 of what you're describing, and reading my games makes that readily apparent. Reads I literally went through close to the same process for were literally just linked to you. Phrasing is easily verified. The quality of my reads is easily verified.

You're simultaneously citing my lack of complexity in my opening post as a scumtell, but the complexity that is there you're dismissing as fabricated. The latter stance is understandable, but there's some doublespeech going on here.

I also think that while it's been implied repeatedly that you think you know how my scumgame works, there has been literally 0 direct comparison from my scumgame to here from you. Instead you've focused on speculation for phrasing combined with the differences from a game you had me as a mechanical clear in.

[Stalfos]

ISOing camn again I still don't like her. Ambivalence on Mulch still reads really forced, particularly #558. Vote on me is underexplained, no adequate response given, and I'd expect more engagement from her after working with her extensively (albeit excruciatingly) through GG2.

camn, I know it's like pulling teeth with you sometimes, but can you trace through your read+vote on me?

[Stalfos]

Key takes over from here, project reads when I get back Sunday are probably Smocaine/Creature. Mulch/camn are top 2 picks currently.

[Stalfos]

Actually I think I can get a better handle on Nos so I'll slot them as the first one.

[Stalfos]

(Project reads, not lynch)

[Stalfos]

VOTE: mulch

?
Why the change?

Also

I'll trade you the Electric Company for Liverpool Street Station

This is a terrible deal, railway stations are far superior to utilities.

Actually I think I can get a better handle on Nos so I'll slot them as the first one.

ayy lets go

Priz is afk until Sunday as stated in 788. Want to talk to me instead?


-Key

[Stalfos]

rude.

That's fine. I want to talk to you.

In 216 you said that one of either hebi or N_M was scum, along with Mulch and Aronis and an unknown fourth member. You stuck your vote on hebi and since then you haven't given much indication of whether there's been any change from there, except for 295 when you said it was the same.

We're now hundreds of posts past that. Are they still your top picks for scum? If so, can you give like a quick synopsis on why you're scumreading each of them? I don't see any specific reasons.

tonally you're like so town but you keep on just saying scummy shit

An example of what you mean here would be good too. This is the closest thing to an explanation that you've got.


@MathBlade: looks like you've got our votes fine. Requiring correct capitalisation might be a bit of an issue though, it's not something people easily remember. I think Theta is trying to help.


@Creature: you mean the thing N_M picked out? I agree with Yume - not sure what it's supposed to be crumbing.

[Stalfos]

I want to talk to you

Me or Nos?

N proper caps
N (a player that starts with N) prob caps (a role)

wat

I'm really struggling to see this.

The word was "proper" not "prob". And what is caps?

[Stalfos]

Mulch can you try and condense your thoughts into fewer posts?

If you're town here I'm policy lynching you any time you express a scumread on me ever again.

Don't do this. Don't

say

this. You can't play a game with someone and refuse to accept them scumreading you, and threatening future policy lynches is just a really unpleasant way to play.

[Stalfos]

I don't think scumN_M makes that push on also scum!hebi

Yeah I'd agree with you here I think, but what was your reason for thinking N_M might be scum at all?

Aronis made some scumposts that I think I quoted in my vote.

VOTE: aronis

Nope. If you did, they didn't last long. Can you quote them now?

like based on tone I'd say mulch was town, but he's making a lot of scumposts.

Again, would you be able to quote them? Same as hebi, not sure what you mean.

---

I've been looking forward to playing with you this game fwiw. Who do you think is scum and why? What are your reads on Mulch and Mathblade?

I've been looking forward to playing with you too!

There hasn't been enough activity from enough of the playerlist. If I were to make a pick right now, it would still be Aronis, for the reasons I said before. I'd like to hear more from him that isn't drifting idly in the wind. I think I asked him questions that he didn't answer. He's sticking to the hebi wagon when his only reason for being on it was sheeping, even when the player he's sheeping has moved on.

Mulch is driving me up the flipping wall, but I can't decide if it's scum-motivated or not. His read on us is shallow and I can see the reasoning for him as scum to focus on Prism instead of reevaluating, and it's incredibly convenient from a scum perspective to tunnel and just repeat the same thing over and over to clog up the game and prevent town from being able to keep up. However multiple times he has sounded dead genuine (in the post I really disliked where he evaluated the benefits of keeping a vote on Prism based on stroking his ego, and in his explanation of why he was being unnecessarily nasty to Smocaine).

MathBlade is kind of overwhelming? I don't get a lot of their reasons for anything, from way early on. They also promoted the idea of spamposting to avoid mastina being able to do too much damage, which like I said above is pretty scum motivated even under the guise of being to help town. But I don't understand the fixation and how they went from some reasonable banter between you and Yume to "Moonlight is obvscum" super ultra deathtunnel mode. Like this is way outside of what I'd expect from either alignment.

What are your townreads?

[Stalfos]

I don't feel like this is a scumteam but individually they are both scum as fuck. Someone send help.

[Stalfos]

Mulch responded to basically 0 and continues the senseless deathtunnel, I am 99% sure he has never read a single towngame nor scumgame of mine outside of Dystopia. Probably scum.

Camn is still whack and her votes are making no sense. The Mulch hard townread is a farce and there's 0 chance she holds that or a scumread on me after reading me/Mulch's interactions. She's not even trying to read me at all.

I can see Camn harddefending here I guess but if they're both scum they're both being way, way too obvious.

[Stalfos]

VOTE: Mulch

for the above but if you want the tl;dr:

Mulch hasn't even tried to read the Keychain head of the hydra despite claiming repeatedly throughout Dystopia that she was newb scum, an easy read, etc. Literally refers to this slot only as "Prism" despite the fact I've barely posted or had time to read.

Going to roll with both for now. No idea how people are townreading camn though.

[Stalfos]

I mean, you had the chance to prove yourself town.

[Stalfos]

I challenged you to draw comparisons to my scumgame, because you said you had read my games and were familiar with them.

You tried to cite differences between this and my towngame, and I showed them null. Instead of trying to find real differences you changed the topic.

Instead of reading the "easy read" you're continuing to deathtunnel and be overconfident on someone you can't even explain why is scum and are just relying on your tone and being overly aggressive. One trick pony.

[Stalfos]

camn's switcharoo on mulch is kinda ???

I can see townreading the recent Mulch AtE but it's more the fake indecision early on that bothers me. That and the "Does Mastina know the rule?" without actually trying to capitalize, which is something I really think camn does considering GG2.

I can also see camn OMGUSing me but feel like she'd make more of an attempt to get something out of me, even if we do tend to kind of talk past one another.

[Stalfos]

Again, one trick pony.

Not hard questions to answer if you were town.

[Stalfos]

I can imagine a world in which Mulch tunnels me for my start as town, I can't imagine a world where Mulch systematically refuse to read my games or respond to my points as town.

Dude is prideful as fuck but obsessive. He wants to beat me and be right, second part is important to him.

[Stalfos]

Like this-
You keep saying this.. and it is weaker and weaker every time.

Stalfos: this old post is funny.
camn: oh.. I see half of them are deleted, and so you probably shouldn't read much out of it.
Stalfos: this old post is funny.
..

days go by..
Stalfos: this old post is funny.

The posts themselves in my opinion weren't great. I don't see what deleted posts have to do with that, they aren't entirely out of context. If you've explained something else that I'm missing then explain it now. I also don't see why my opinion on these posts would change over time. Scumreading me for being inactive because my body is breaking down on me is not a good reason.

There is no 'capitializing' on the editing rule anyway.
Believe me, I tried to think of how to do it.

Right, publicly, not privately. I know, because you openly speculated about it.

In the end, it was better to tell. Which, if you were looking at the situation in an honest way, and not just trying to pin 'scumpoints' on me, you would realize.
But you arent, cuz you are scum. And as scum, you don't need to actually figure out anything, just get mislynches. So shove it.

You're making a big claim here without actually having evidence that my intent is malice than a real read. You aren't exactly up for a lynch today either, despite the fact that I think you should.

[Stalfos]

I'm not going to claim to have read basically any of RC this game but that line is definitely something that comes from RC town.

[Stalfos]

Oh god the old "show me evidence' defense.

VOTE: Stalfos

(For Mathblade's computer-VC-monkey)

viewtopic.php?p=9410835#p9410835

Followed up immediately by me thoroughly responding, basically exactly like how I did with Mulch this game when CloudKicker brought up actually good points.

<<< Fixing naked URL tag. >>>

[Stalfos]

Ball's in your court, camn.

Didn't even respond to my post against you.

[Stalfos]

Can't wait for the response to this one. Prism remembers their own town meta and is matching it too closely to be legitimate?

Stay tuned.

[Stalfos]

Me, later. Key is also trying because of 1805 but I'm trying to get her to focus elsewhere.

Main thing is time limitation/physical condition so want to preface that.

Even if I did, though, you'd probably be lower on the priority totem pole as you're a lot easier to PoE, I got really lucky with you in 1805 in the sense that I had a bad scumread that turned good when I knew you'd have seen me as town by then. I read enough of your games to know that it's a lot easier to read others who are more transparent. Read on you isn't that much more valuable than a read on someone else. Not the response you want I'm sure but figure I should get that out of the way now if it happens.

[Stalfos]

I'm not like RC. Key won't like it but I will gladly trade you 1 for 1.

[Stalfos]

I guess I can see why you'd think I'm scum with Mulch via associatives. Is that all?

[Stalfos]

Honestly this game just makes me realize how badly I fucked up 1808 because this is pathetic.

[Stalfos]

I am not getting how people are just ignoring Mulch/camn's actual content and just reading them for tone. This is actually atrocious.

Mulch comparing 1808 to here is a story of two entirely different worlds. He persistently heckled me to engage with him, to answer questions, and was extremely assertive with pushing his reads and tells and expounding upon them to me when I was skeptical of them.

[Stalfos]

I feel like we are in a newbie game.

Everyone use your words...why are you scumreading who you are?

okay, here's my case of sorts:
hebichan started off the day really scummy, you're just going to have to take my word on this or recall that yourself, because unfortunately a decent amount of posts have been deleted there. But since then all hebichan has really done is lurk and hide. Mulch, the other main wagon, has been scummy as well, BUT Mulch is actively providing content and while the content isn't great, at least he's making an effort.
The problem for him is that your ordinary wagons gain traction in two main ways: the wagonee (is that a word?) giving people ammunition or deadline approaching. And so for hebichan lurking is the perfect strategy, because at that point in the day people were not ready to lynch somebody and now hebichan can simply coast under the radar letting her wagon slowly dissipate while people like Mulch gain traction because they are actively doing something.
At this point I don't think Mulch's posting is to the extreme that he is a detriment to the town. As a result of this, I think we can clearly conclude that it would be in our best interest to let the active person, who is trying, live and kill off the scummy lurker or at least put enough pressure on her to get her to start posting more content.

So VOTE: hebichan

Only post of hebi's I found questionable so far was #208 and most recent. She's definitely not up there in the top lurker pool, either. Is this mostly a tonal read or something she actually did?

I get the not wanting to lynch the most active poster, there are almost certainly scum in the lurkers, but this is also the easiest way to get out of an interaction that almost certainly has scum in it-I would be very surprised if both camn and Mulch were town and would slot the chance arbitrarily near 0%. I would slot the chance of both being scum as comparatively very high, additionally. Hebi arguably gives more from her flip than anyone not named Mulch/Stalfos/RC/camn but I'm not a big believer in mislynching for info Day 1.

[Stalfos]

I'm really not confident in my read on camn anymore. I think her push on me is dumb but she doesn't seem to get why I scumread her in the first place. If she's scum she probably would have just stopped being so assertive and let the day go by. Trying to flashwagon me in particular would be an awful strategic move as scum.

This game is seriously suffering from lack of activity. There should be more than 4-6 people playing.

[Stalfos]

Agreed, that's why I want it to stop.

[Stalfos]

You know Mulch, maybe they're just waiting on you highlighting the similarity to my scumgames that you supposedly read, or for differences in my towngame that you've also supposedly read. Maybe spending more time on me is exactly what everybody is waiting for.

Or are you just posting vague, empty appeals to purposely keep things derailed?

[Stalfos]

How can you make a conclusion that I'm scum when the premise is that I'm scum lol

lmao

[Stalfos]

Question for those not voting Mulch:

Hypothetically, you have a hydra. One head is someone you have never played with or against outside of one game in which they were confirmed town. Your opinion of them is that they are an incredible scum and a difficult read. The other head is someone you read a flipped scumgame extensively, and came to the conclusion that they were "textbook newb scum", "transparent", and basically every word for patently bad scum/easy read in the book.

Do you think you as town would ever systematically refuse to read the second, easy to read head and instead focus solely on the other? Do you think any town would?

If the answer to the above is "No" you want to vote Mulch. This isn't even getting into his trash read on my head itself.

[Stalfos]

Can you please highlight how you would read a hydra if not by at least considering a head that you

literally consider a free town/scumread

?

[Stalfos]

@Math/everyone, Mulch is still scum. Five minutes or not, the mod still edited postsand didn't change anything. All it did was make people think something was edited.

VOTE: kise
this isn't good reasoning

Does bad reasoning equal scum?

My busy day is done, anything I can comment on?

I'd be interested in hearing what your most confident reads are, town or scum.


@Yume: can I ask what about this game makes you feel like you don't have to be proactive? How do you think that helps town win?


-Not Prism

[Stalfos]

Yeah, except tat the content cold easily get edited by the mod, so what's the point of making it exactly?

Um, helping lynch scum. Also to play the game.

The only post of yours that has been visibly edited is 234 so your concern is kind of misplaced.

If you refuse to post on the basis that it could be edited, the game dies. Don't let that happen. You can outplay mastina. Keep copies of your posts if they've got something important. Post when other people are active, to guarantee that what you say gets seen before it can be messed with. The mod is scum but that just means you have to try harder. To give up altogether doesn't help town at all.

Also I don't want to let you use the mechanic as an excuse to lurk. Using the excuse of "my posts might be edited" to avoid providing content is disingenuous because I'm sure you knew what you were getting into when you signed up. Were you always planning to take this approach?


-Key

[Stalfos]

Did you want to roll scum?

Also I'm about to go to sleep so I can't hang around, but do you have any scumreads? It looks like you aren't voting right now.

[Stalfos]

Oh my god the replacements

Replace out

If that's how it's gonna be, I bow out

Goodbye Yume!

you know what, I spent a little bit thinking and... I'm just gonna apologize.

The apology is appreciated Nos <3 Bye! I liked playing with you.

My head is replacing.

Uhm so gamewise:

okay, here's my case of sorts:
hebichan started off the day really scummy, you're just going to have to take my word on this or recall that yourself, because unfortunately a decent amount of posts have been deleted there. But since then all hebichan has really done is lurk and hide. Mulch, the other main wagon, has been scummy as well, BUT Mulch is actively providing content and while the content isn't great, at least he's making an effort.
The problem for him is that your ordinary wagons gain traction in two main ways: the wagonee (is that a word?) giving people ammunition or deadline approaching. And so for hebichan lurking is the perfect strategy, because at that point in the day people were not ready to lynch somebody and now hebichan can simply coast under the radar letting her wagon slowly dissipate while people like Mulch gain traction because they are actively doing something.
At this point I don't think Mulch's posting is to the extreme that he is a detriment to the town. As a result of this, I think we can clearly conclude that it would be in our best interest to let the active person, who is trying, live and kill off the scummy lurker or at least put enough pressure on her to get her to start posting more content.

So VOTE: hebichan

This is interesting. Out of two potential scumreads, you are choosing which one to vote based on activity. This comes across more as a justification of why you are

not

voting Mulch than why you

are

voting hebi. The only reason I can really see those two being your only potential votes is that Not_Mafia voted hebi, you sheeped him, then he switched to Mulch so you're justifying why you didn't follow suit. Is that right or am I completely misunderstanding?
Do you want to shift people from the Mulch wagon to hebi, or are you happy for both to exist since you scumread both wagonees?


-Key

[Stalfos]

Anyone has experience with anyone from the Stalfos hydra?

RC and MathBlade both have seen me as town once, so pretty limited. I think Nos has seen me as town twice, camn has also seen me twice.

You were town with me in Perfect Blue Mafia.

Mulch's experience with me/Keychain is the crux of my case against him. His claim to be familiar with how I play as town was wacky and out of place to begin with given that the only game he has with me I was already confirmed town and he never read me. Further investigation revealed that his claims of having read more of my games was either completely false or that he was for some reason withholding judgment on them. I can see no intent for the latter, especially not for tunneling. His current justification is that my read on camn is 100% tunnel worthy, despite the fact I linked two towngames where I opened the game with a similar read-as in, same exact process of "I have no strong reads, what's something that bothers me? It might be a stetch but it's the best I have"

Most importantly,

he repeatedly referred to Keychain as "newb scum", "transparent", etc. throughout his experience with her in Newbie 1808. He has yet to address this head of the hydra a single time or even attempt to form a read on her, referring to this slot exclusively as the "Prism hydra" even when I basically wasn't here for the first two weeks of the game. He isn't even trying to read the head that he claims is an easy read (Spoiler: She kind of is in her present state, too)

I don't think anyone here has more experience than two towngames or has seen me flip scum.

[Stalfos]

I also think his entire way of going about things and ditching questions/getting to the core of things entirely is starkly different from 1808. The emotional appeals are similar and situationally null but in 1808 he was very determined to get to the base reason or core of things, and he's been remarkably nontransparent here and determined to resist or derail any deeper inquiry.

Considering the claim to have read my other games, but refusal to incorporate them, I wouldn't be surprised if he was taking a hint from my 1v1 with RC in Newbie 1805.

[Stalfos]

If you're talking raw energy and determination to win, I already proved I can fake it in Miss List.

Gonna have to rely on my reads, dude.

[Stalfos]

Actually I do think that the general feel of it is a lot different and I was already at the end of my rope in Miss List, which was a comparatively short game. I speak with a lot more non-gamerelated passion, at least.

Depends on how interesting this game gets and how much my schedule clears up, right now I'm just coming home and passing out immediately every day.

P-Edit: Oh, dunno then. That's on you.

[Stalfos]

Having a hard time getting/understanding your reads in ISO. Where are you at overall? Reads on camn/hebi seem really noncommittal, what's your reason for townreading RC?

[Stalfos]

Oh I missed the townread on Mulch for the selfvote, does that change at all in light of my 1115 or 1116?

I'll probably check the selfvote meta at some point, he's probably done it somewhere at least as town. If he got it from me I'd be surprised.

[Stalfos]

If prism was town Keychain would have told you them that they fooled me as scum and knew I didn't consider them to he bad scum.


Instead they conviently forgot to mention it, probably because it would have nullified their. Main point.


Prism scum

Are you trying to argue that you're not reading me because of Micro 737?

I thought you had an accurate scumread on me there that got temporarily suspended, that's why I killed you. I said as much in the scum PT.

and knew I didn't consider them to he bad scum.

???
How would I know this? You've never said it and I'm not psychic. Given the way you posted once in the 737 dead thread and then vanished after your death, I had no reason to assume you had changed your mind so dramatically. Like I said - I thought you pretty much had me in that game, so why would I think that you thought I was any better than in 1808?

To be quite honest, it's exhausting trying to engage you when you're clearly determined to treat this slot like it's just Prism. You were really enjoyable to play with in 735 and 737. Not so much this game.

Expecting you to read my half of the slot is not unreasonable, even though you're acting like it is. You've seen me play scum badly. You've correctly read me when I've been playing well. Here you are ignoring me and I can't see why you'd do that as town.

Didn't you already address that post earlier??

Prism did in 990. This is Keychain. I had something else to say about it, so I did. Did you respond?

Anyone has experience with anyone from the Stalfos hydra?

You and RC each have one completed game with me, Mulch has three, though one of them he replaced in after my death.

[Stalfos]

I asked if she had any reason to think you thought otherwise, she said no.

Skimming the game, looks like she doesn't, you just waffled because BTD6 is lynchbait.

Be back later, probably drunk.

camn can you please explain why you originally townread us on that end of the exchange and what changed on a second passthrough?

[Stalfos]

Also I don't think I've mentioned-if you're scum I'm going to fucking eat you alive.

[Stalfos]

Please. I'm town, and even if I weren't, better players than you have tried to come at me.
Also, after that shit you pulled fake-scum-claiming last game...I should by all rights grudge-lynch you for the next 6 months.

And I scumread you cuz you are a fucking automaton. You are the most robotic player I know, and your dumb latching onto what you convince yourself my meta is ...it's a crapcase, and crapcases are scummy.

And just cuz Mulch is checked out and you are checked in doesn't mean you are town.

I certainly am a robotic player, I mean I've been playing for over 7 years now, unless a game really grabs my attention as town or I decide to solocarry as scum it's like that. That said, I don't see how you've incorporated that into your read of me, and in particular I'm pretty sure that one of the games I used the exact same process for an opening read was GG2 though I might be wrong (I'm drunk, sue me). I made plenty of other crapcases in GG2 at the end of the day, not that I thought they were crap at the time, but that they were proved so via flips.

Mulch has made the definition of a crapcase on my slot, though, and has been combative and AtE-y all the while, because the AtE has worked in staving off further votes. There's some doublethink here on your end about the crapcases being scummy but Mulch getting a pass for something that isn't just a reach but completely inconsistent with his experience with me/Keychain. I don't like it and this waffle feels forced.

[Stalfos]

Questoion though, how likely is a stalfos lynch today? Because I could vote there.

I'm pretty sure you had just expressed a few pages back a willingness to vote Mulch, and your reason for unvoting was something scummy that

RC

said, so this really makes 0 sense to me.

[Stalfos]

Like I don't know how much doublethink is really a scumtell for you, but yeah, it bothers me.

[Stalfos]

That was to camn.

Math can you tl;dr; that for me because I'm still pretty sure Mulch is scum and I think Day 1 bus is unlikely.

[Stalfos]

what the hell are these posts about how you know how i play rofl

i only remember playing with you in aristo's mini normal

how have I reacted thus far according to those supposed expectations and why?

[Stalfos]

Like the fact that you claim to know EXACTLY how I'd react to XYZ, know my mind inside out, but still are somehow more sure on RC who you've admitted to misreading before and claim to be less certain on me is another case of just weird doublethink and I don't know how people are managing to type these things side by side without realizing that something needs to be reevaluated there

I don't think doublethink equals hardscum but it's worth interrogating within yourself, like what?

[Stalfos]

Don't know about you, but I ain't here to get fucked

The mod is mafia what are you doing in this game mate?
Multiple people have been hit by edits that have changed nothing beyond like punctuation or something. Mulch is claiming that his posts are getting edited in more serious ways. You're right in that nobody else is getting targeted like that.


@Creature's post which was definitely there earlier: we have both been posting, but I think Prism has been posting more, volume-wise. Did you mean throughout the game, or recently?


-Key

[Stalfos]

You can do it Snarky!

@Creature:
You're probably not talking to me but whatever. I don't think I saw the post you're talking about.
I'm not familiar with MM4. But why do you think her disengagement is due to alignment instead of disinterest? Mulch said the same thing about you and you countered with

or disinterested!Creature.

Or are you more interested in the fact that the post was deleted?

Replace me out

I'm out of internet and shits going down

Bye hebi!


-Key

[Stalfos]

What was the reply?

[Stalfos]

Can you explain the grapes read first?

Theta,

Ginngie

, grapes are most likely scum from your list.

I still expected MM4 to actually be trying to put effort into this game.

It has been multiple times I called him out, he said he's disinterested and I don't remember him putting anything.

Re: MM4, it looks like she's been sort of picking up by challenging you to explain how disinterest is AI, and the more recent posts on Aronis.


-Key

[Stalfos]

Welcome new people! Hi Cheeky!

Check MathBlade's ISO for most recent VC. Maybe read the most recent pages to get an idea of the game state. I haven't checked to see if they're readable though.

I'm not confident in being able to outmanoeuvre mastina, especially first Day.
Regarding a pattern: many posts have been edited with no change to meaning or with town switched to scum or similar. A lot of posts have been deleted. She has been focusing on Mulch's posts for serious edits, but it doesn't really help us determine his alignment.

Not sure what you mean by a code though.

-Key

[Stalfos]

Oh you replaced hebi. You're a leading wagon atm, along with Mulch.

[Stalfos]

Hi Maestro!

So why would mastina target mulch and creature so often with deleting/editing posts in contrast to others?

I saw Creature responded to this with something like "because they're right". I suspect it's more because they're short, contain no votes and are easy to get rid of without leaving large visible holes in the game. At least it seems like that recently with Creature's posts.

Creature, were most of your deleted posts on MM4 or were there more?


-Key

[Stalfos]

Because no one is actually going to vote me and he knows it, but if he yells loud enough and repeatedly maybe he can get people off him and onto someone else.

If he actually cared about getting me lynched he'd have actually been able to refute the majority of what I said. He's made basically 0 attempt to refute any of mine, settling for an occasional potshot, and has just been trying to drown out discussion literally the entire game.

He's obviously scum and people are being dumb.

[Stalfos]

Like you can't sit here with a straight face and tell me that Mulch as town actually expects and hopes for people to listen to that. If I'm so clearly scum to him he would have made some kind of actual attempts to elucidate that read for other people to harp on.

P-Edit: Already addressed, #1132, pretty sure you failed to respond to it, along with the other 20 things.

[Stalfos]

I put more effort as scum than town

So you know no one is going to listen to that and are continuing to do it anyway rather than take a different approach? Thanks for basically admitting to empty posturing.

"The beast" my ass.

[Stalfos]

"Why would I as town try to convince the other townies of my read to get the lynch I desire more than anything in the world?"

Was your fragile pride wounded? Was I spot on? Is that why you've finally decided to try? How does it feel to fail?

[Stalfos]

Remember guys me not actually trying hard to get my scumread lynched is my TOWN behavior, if I was scum I'd be trying harder

[Stalfos]

How's your pride doing Mulch? Is it as easy as you expected, knowing that I have a weak towngame? Are you feeling superior yet? How does it feel knowing that you can't even muster up a single response?

[Stalfos]

Show me "the beast" Mulch, where's he at? Are you telling me this is all you have?

I'm pretty sure you're mafia and I'm hungry. Let me eat you alive.

[Stalfos]

Thanks mastina but not getting away that easy.

I put more effort as scum than town

I think I actually believe this, but I hate self-meta. I also don't understand the readon for your Stalfos read. :/

Mulch is almost certainly scum. The read on me is bullshit to begin with if you check the ISO, some of it got deleted but most is still there, he repeatedly cited expectations of me that he has no reason to believe (At one point he couldn't even keep his characterization of my play straight, calling it "very good" at one point then basically saying he doesn't think+never said that). He cited supposed scumtells of mine, I linked town games where I used the same phrases or even process that he was citing. The game he's citing with Keychain he nailed her intention exactly but only waffled because BTD6 is lynchbait, and never told her what he's claiming to have. He settled on it because it's plausible and is a minor potshot he can take. He just accidentally admitted he's not actually trying to get me lynched.

Because my first one was spot on I'm going to take another guess and say he targeted me specifically because he's salty about the result of 1808 and basically wanted to get back at me for it, only to have it backfire massively when he realized he was out of his depth.

P-Edit: Dude I'm sorry but voting outside of Mulch is really dumb. Any counterwagon to him is almost certainly going to be town.

[Stalfos]

The only person who ever fights me for Pagetops is mastina and she's confscum. So like there's no way you can't be scum too

It's pretty obvious that Math wasn't intentionally fighting for the page top? Wth am I missing here?

I'm pretty sure it's joke logic. To me it reads like Aronis is having trouble getting into the game, which I don't find particularly alignment indicative.

I think the Aronis/mastina struggle over page tops is more scummy than Math holding one.

Can you explain more on what you mean here?

Which is weird because I came in solely to say Pretty sure Ghostlin town.

I was leaning this way too. I really liked his 1272 on Creature in particular. But:

Are you not a fan of Pokemon Go or do you actually, shock horror, have a read?

I am curious why you're bothering to interact with this, since grapes, according to his ISO, has done fuck all and I can't be bothered to remember he's actually in this game.

I didn't like this post. To be honest a number of players have done fuck all and so Cheeky attempting to engage grapes over a naked vote seems to be a good positive movement towards more of the playerlist actually playing the game. Ghostlin being "curious" comes across as really insincere in that respect because it seems like he's happy with fewer people engaging. 1282 is also a lot of words with very little conclusion. I understand that replacing in means he missed the initial discussion on that point but it seems purposeless and looks like it helps more than it actually does.

What are your reasons for thinking he's town?


-Key

[Stalfos]

I volunteer to self vote if you flip blue Mulch.

Blue? I'm green...

VOTE: Mulch

Someone tell me Mulch's 794 looks remotely genuine. Mulch seems like a vet. Would he really not know that blue =/= green in this context? Mathblade hi, thanks for the vc stuff. Would you join a hypothetical Camn wagon?

Smocaine's ISO is considerably easier to go through than Mulch's. I don't think it's a slip, it looks more like Smoc was taking issue with Mulch focusing on the colours (which are just a matter of convention) instead of the argument.

I think Mulch is genuine in his motivations while lying

Wut. If there's some dispute as to the slip, that's one thing; if he actually PT slipped, he's getting strung up and we're not going to debate semantics.

I don't remember anyone saying he PT slipped, and the slip itself makes no sense as one. So where did you get that from, Ghost?


-Key

[Stalfos]

My post refuting that one line by line is deleted/edited. How convenient. All that's left of that segment is #774, which doesn't contain the meat of it. Most if it came 775-785. I'll remake it later.

Mostly just annoyed because this game is honestly a snoozefest so far, Mulch literally slipped and admitted to not trying to get me lynched but instead just waiting for a 3rd person to get wagoned and literally

no one gave a shit

.

I'm partly with Creature, Key has tried to get into the game but has struggled, I'm completely apathetic and I don't think I even care who the last 3 scum are assuming Mulch is one. I'm fine with an abandon here. I think the post deletion mechanic is dumb, easily circumventable but who actually wants to bother? No VCs, no mod investment, indefinite V/LA, replacement/flake city, half of the effort I do put in just gets wiped because "Oh the mod is mafia and gotta delete the big posts so no one will read it!" with close to no discretion, and 0 investment from me.

Those last parts are honestly pathetic and just me trying to rationalize my feelings to be widespread when it's just my fault for not being more energetic (ie. I'm a huge chunk of the problem) and knowing what I signed up for but whatever.

[Stalfos]

He critiqued my "reach" on camn as being

nonindicative

uncharacteristic

but that camn read came from a process I've used repeatedly, linked in two towngames (one called Buttersnap another called GG2)

EBWOP

Like if you just read the end of 1808 you'll see exactly why he tried to pick a fight with me, so he could flaunt his "beast" of a scumgame and assert his superiority over me that he's obsessed with. Then it fucking backfired because it's not actually that good, my towngame is better than he expected, and my major fuckup in 1808 apparently wasn't just townreading Vic but ever thinking that Mulch would be decent as scum. Story of 1808 Mulch and this Mulch's attitudes with discussion are fucking night and day.

Links for Buttersnap/GG2 reads since I'm here and might as well do something: Read on Vegito/Leon, didn't feel an action was quite fitting with personality portrait of someone I'd play with twice. Real reach with little evidence, but guessed it was scum posturing, followed up and was right.
Opening read on the Notice slot, had only played with mastina a single time before. Similar reach based off of me thinking some thinking wasn't quite adding up, was wrong but the whole point is to guess and go from there.

[Stalfos]

I really need to just sit down and reread the game, I honestly just have Kise and massive as townreads and that's not nearly enough.

I'm a bit more motivated now so you can scratch the bottom part of 1440, I won't have time until Sunday but afterwards I want to try and bring the fire again. Settling for Mulch is a lowbar and I need to be working to get the game on lock over just saying "These people are fucking dumb it's Mulch this game sucks" and moping

[Stalfos]

I learned my lesson.

I'm not remaking that whole thing actually and I'm not going to promise to.

tl;dr: Mulch literally did nothing but go on about how bad I am and how bad my reads are all of the Dystopia postgame, and watched me singlehandedly lead town into 3 mislynches. I was confirmed town on replace in as a bonus so he never read me for alignment. He claims to have read multiple games I've been in but has failed to cite any of them and even refused to draw comparisons to my scumgames that he claims to have read. The only thing he tried to draw a comparison to is tone, and I specifically linked 3 completed games where I used the same word choices as town that he's critiquing. He critiqued my "reach" on camn as being nonindicative but that camn read came from a process I've used repeatedly, linked in two towngames (one called Buttersnap another called GG2)

None of this even matters because he again slipped pages back trying to be clever:

"Oh but that's not a slip it's just him saying he's not trying" It's literally him conceding that he's not trying to actually get me lynched, and is just doing it for

show.

He's not trying to get me lynched, he's not trying to get himself lynched by saying to vote Stalfos (arguably with a selfvote, but he's never stuck to that and again has capsed a vote on me 4-5x over). If he's not doing either of those he's waiting for a third person to be lynched.

I originally linked the Dystopia postgame but I'm drunk and don't feel like finding it right now so deal with it.

[Stalfos]

Alternatively camn it's just my fucking standard tone that I use every game, it's not even me arguing it's town indicative, it's Mulch making a case on me saying "This is why she's scum" and me saying "Uhhhh, I literally do all of these as town." I've never tried to use my phrasing or the fact that I used the same process read-wise to argue that I was town, only that Mulch was bullshitting.

Mulch's reaction to that (+some initial reasoning really doesn't add up) is what makes him scum and along with the fact that he LITERALLY FUCKING ADMITTED TO NOT TRYING TO GET ME LYNCHED IN HOPES OF A WAGON DERAIL

I'm not a deadbeat as scum, I know how to fake my town tone and know how I work readswise, I've been playing for fucking 7 years. You've got to actually look at my reads and reasoning is the whole point, or in this case STOP GUTTRUSTING SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT LYNCHING SCUM

[Stalfos]

I'm significantly more cantankerous than usual so my apologies, the severity of some of that was really uncalled for. But really, look at Dystopia postgame, ask yourself where Mulch's evaluation of my towngame is coming from.

He has claimed repeatedly to have read my scumgames but somehow has made reference to 0 of them. Do the math.

[Stalfos]

Also pedantic correction because I hate it when people do this and I can't believe I just did it, none of those make him scum, they're what makes it obvious he is scum. Wrong causal relation there and it bothers me.

[Stalfos]

Actually camn I'm going to take a different approach.

Lay out how on earth I "make sense" while your heart says otherwise. I don't see how anyone can agree with what I'm staying and simultaneously hold the view that Mulch is town, they're really mutually exclusive. I'm calling bullshit and that I was right initially, this waffle is fake as fuck.

[Stalfos]

His push on me is nonsensical when viewed from a meta perspective, and even if we're both town you have to look at his case from a meta perspective to disentangle it to begin with. You can't just separate the two.

The halfhearted push on me is bad enough though, again his objective was visibly not to get me lynched the past 20+ pages. He would have actually tried to refute anything I was saying were he able to, but could not. He could have said "Hey, wow, I was wrong on Stalfos", but he never did and instead went for empty posturing hoping to get others to disengage onto a third wagon. He sees that no amount of AtE is working to get people to vote me, but persists in making empty caps votes he knows no one will follow over trying to refute what I'm saying,

which should theoretically be pretty fucking easy if I'm scum

, simplifying or clarifying his case for others, or anything other than empty posturing.

Read that image. Think about the implications of that post. Ask yourself the town intent behind

not actually trying to get your scumread lynched

. He tried to be clever and talk around me and it backfired hard. If that's not enough for you yes, you have to actually read the like 20 posts we made at the end of Dystopia.

P-Edit: Thanks for taking me up on the challenge, camn. Must have been some real soulsearching you did these past 5 minutes, unable to understand why I would scumread you or want to inquisition your perspective more.

[Stalfos]

I'm grumpy and going to go eat my Wheaties and sleep now but if we want to policy lynch a lurker just do it tomorrow. Lynch the free scum before the statistically probable town. The only positive to leaving me/Mulch is that I wait another day to get nightkilled. If Mulch is bussing sure whatever I'll go first tomorrow and take a 2 for 1 but I am not betting on that, ever.

Whoever is town probably doesn't deserve my frustration but like camn, I love you but what are you thinking right now just explain it to me. I'll check it in the morning but you can't tunnel me for not being a mind reader here, these stances are weird to me

[Stalfos]

Okay that made me laugh.

okay so i'm going to go back to sheeping my townread who like i don't even remember why i townread her anymore but ik that at least at one point i thought i had substantial reasons for the townread so like yeah if my townread ever votes im going to sheep her
so basically i'm done trolling until like tomorrow but i'm too lazy to be productive so this is my compromise so at least i dont actively force a no lynch

However this confused me. Last time I checked, you were sheeping N_M.

Theta Alpine seems to be the only person not voting so I assume you're talking about her. Why would you think that sheeping a player that hasn't posted in nearly a fortnight is in any way a useful thing to do? Or are you talking about someone else?

I'd much rather lynch someone who isn't playing.

Oh my god I'd much rather lynch scum

can we please do that

People started (finally) joining the mulch wagon once this halfassed theta wagon took off. Why?

A flashwagon on a lurker is not a good way to hit scum. Maybe that poked people into acting.


Maestro come back to us!


-Key

[Stalfos]

About goddamn time.

Time to die before I actually have time to read, if it happens good luck.

[Stalfos]

Welcome DiamondSentinel!

All this talk of bussing before any scum flips is way premature. All this talk of claiming is also premature. I've also been trying to follow quote links just now and a whole bunch of them are broken so I'm guessing a whole bunch of things have been deleted.

Readlist:

Town - Camn, Stalfos
Null!Town - Creature (unfortunately now dead)
Null - Ghostlin (note that Nos is in null!scum. The slot changed a bit), Mario (he's done butt fuck nothing with his content and I hate it)
Null!Scum - Nos, Kise, Hebichan (who was replaced and died immediately, which is off, but whatever)
Scum - Theta, Math, Radiant, Grapes, yume-slot (Looks to be Maestro now)

Regarding your readslist.

I'm interested in hearing you explain more about your Kise read. You found him noteworthy enough to put him in the list, so I assume you had some explanation for that. There were some other things in what you said that I wanted to ask you about, but I'm pretty bloody shattered right now so they'll have to wait for tomorrow when I can think straight.

MM4 was getting hit by deletes and edits iirc and I didn't really consider her content "nothing". Even so, why would you put her as null for that? If it was nothing, I'd expect her to not be on the list. If it was nothing enough to be noteworthy, I'd expect it to be because you considered it scummy. In comparison, you haven't listed Aronis, for example.

Also I suppose this is for my own personal comfort because I've got a low tolerance for this kind of thing, but would you be able to stop badmouthing players and their skill, particularly those who aren't in the game and can't call you out on it? You claim to want people to stop being confrontational but you're really not helping in that regard. It does nothing to help town to slag off players like hebi, Creature and Mulch. It just increases the unpleasantness of the game.

Grapes are delicious. Working on reads.

This was edited but the second part looks like it came from the original post. You were on Mulch pretty much since replace in, so I want to know where you're at now.


PEdit:

Gonna steal this pagetop while I can.

...
That's not a pagetop. Deletes incoming, I guess.


-Key

[Stalfos]

Excuse you? I have "shitposted" only either once or twice (464 was a joke, 390 was kinda made in a shitposty way but also was meant to say something ingame.) You don't get to ignore and discredit a player because they debatedly shitposted twice.

^
Agree. MM4 has been contributing considerably more than many other players.

---

So Prism is going to be fairly absent for the foreseeable future so it's mostly going to be me from now on.

But more thoughts regarding D1 before I go to sleep:
While we were sure on Mulchscum from the way he was acting, especially after the self-hammer, it should have been up to us to realise he was town. That also makes two games in a row that Priz has mislynched him and they are not going to blame him for that.

(I mean,

I

believe it's not all us but sharing blame is really not Prism's modus operandi and I'm speaking for both of us here)

Some scumreads as of end of Day:
Aronis's actions end of Day are confused. It looks like he was claiming to sheep Theta because he townread her earlier, but at that point she hadn't posted in like two weeks. Then his comments to Math in 1498 and 1521 offering to lynch Titus come across odd to me because he never expressed a read on Math and I couldn't find much on Moonlight either, so he didn't seem to be sheeping a townread or lynching a scumread. Then he didn't vote anyone and instead parked on mastina. I get that he's being silly but he also doesn't seem to have any kind of town curiosity or interest in who gets lynched. Scumread has not waned here.

Looking at the last minute additions to the Mulch wagon, Smocaine stands out to me. He seemed pretty keen on a Mulch lynch from early on, encouraged it, then switched to Theta even as he called her the "designated policy lynch" and the wagon "halfassed", before returning to Mulch. Disparaging his own vote while encouraging another wagon suggests a kind of dissonance that I'd expect from scum more than town.

And another point of interest that isn't so much a scumread as something I'd like to bring up for discussion is that Creature was scumreading MM4, but all of his posts connected to that were deleted even while he was making them, then he was killed overnight. I don't know if he was the scum kill but it's worth noting that he's not around to advocate for that read anymore. I'd rather that thread didn't get lost.


-Key

[Stalfos]

that's actually pretty good logic.
like i've only given reads on four people this entire game and i'm obvtown

You're not obvtown. You're town, but there's room for you to be scum.

Furthermore, it's nothing to do with your lack of readlists. It's just that you're transparent.

wow trying to plant that ludicrous idea of doubt about me in people's minds?
you must really be scum

Bitch,

I've had you on town from the start of the day.

However, I'm often wrong.

I hate it when people say "oh, I'm obvtown". Anyone who says that instantly becomes scum in my book, so that's also why I said there's room for you to be scum. I don't see why nobody else understands that, but the reasoning department in this game has hit the shitter.

(bolding mine)

Readlist:

Town - Camn, Stalfos
Null!Town - Creature (unfortunately now dead)
Null - Ghostlin (note that Nos is in null!scum. The slot changed a bit), Mario (he's done butt fuck nothing with his content and I hate it)
Null!Scum - Nos, Kise, Hebichan (who was replaced and died immediately, which is off, but whatever)
Scum - Theta, Math, Radiant, Grapes, yume-slot (Looks to be Maestro now)

Did you just summon a strong townread on Aronis out of nowhere to suit your argument? Considering 1615, I struggle to see where this came from, and I don't know why it wasn't in your initial list.

You're giving no reasoning at all and you're positioning yourself as some kind of higher authority instead of genuinely engaging and trying to solve the game.

Like... why townread Aronis? That's a read we directly disagree on, same as the Kise one I asked about.
You claim to townread us, I thought you'd have some interest in discussing things but apparently nah. You seem to be far more interested in defending yourself and discrediting anyone who scumreads you.


-Key

[Stalfos]

Bleugh, I dunno what I was doing, but I somehow confused him for part of your hydra/your hydra's slot.

In that case, let me actually ISO him rather than having my readlist from memory.

Anyways, I will definitely discuss things with you. I discuss whatever seems to be the topic of discussion. When that's me or my reads, then yeah, I defend myself.

... you thought Aronis was us...
I mean that makes a lot of sense with how you were acting. The names are kind of similar, I guess.

You can choose the topic of discussion. I've asked you on your reads but you don't seem to be that interested in explaining them. That would be a good place to start.

Spoiler alert, Stalfos: I've no idea what I'm doing and I just fly by the seat of my pants. I'm probably the worst mafia player you'll ever meet, mostly because I don't have the same logical thought processes as you guys and I don't understand them at all. You guys talk about stuff and cross examine it, and all of it's moon logic to me. When you say "X means that they're scum", 95% of the time, I'm thinking "Wait, I took that as a townie thing to do".

Yes but when you come in and start saying how bad everyone is, it seems to me like you're trying to establish yourself as superior. I'm also a pretty terrible player in many respects.

Different people think in different ways, which is good. Theoretically you can bridge the gap with communication. Is there somewhere in particular that we've been using moon logic that you disagree with?

This was edited but the second part looks like it came from the original post. You were on Mulch pretty much since replace in, so I want to know where you're at now.

I said grapes are delicious. She deleted nothing.

Off the cuff:
Town: grapes, MB, camn, probably you
Scum (which includes people not playing to a Town wincon): Aronis, smocaine---yes, they could just be shit town, but this is the kind of game where easily scum could be playing delibrately anti-town because LOLS! (No seriously, I'm much less likely to embrace this bullshit this game. And I've got a low tolerance for it anyhow; although smocaine encouraged the mulch lynch and then hopped off to end the day on the mod, which is no lynch and then told us all how Town mulch was seems fucking trying to manufacture holier than thou town cred that it should probably eat rope)
Curious About Because They're The Subject of Discussion: Radiant Moonlight, DS

I'm frankly feeling REALLY off balance right now and having trouble sorting, trying to decide whether or not I just roll with what I have (a lot of gut here) or do a close read of ISOs, mastina be damned.

Okay, thank you.

We also had the possibility of you being scum, I just wanted to hear from you first.

Your entrance was very much rehashing the entire conversation that had been had at the start, and despite a couple good towny posts (1271/1272 stick out, I think I mentioned those D1) you transitioned from "helpful" into clogging up the thread with discussion of a scum slip. Considering that it's difficult to go back and check things, jumping to this assumption was on the one hand pretty odd and also makes a pretty good scum strategy to confuse people and make sure the wagon on Mulch didn't dissipate. You started D2 in full rage mode, and rage mode is an easy way to look town without doing anything.

Now you only have two scumreads, which you somehow blended to lead to your Smocaine vote. But I'm a bit happier with your posting today, not so much with his, so I'll join you there. I also seem to remember you making more posts about the "scumslip" but looking back it seems like either I'm mistaken or mastina has done some deleting so I'm not sure if I'm just remembering it badly.

VOTE: Smocaine


-Key

[Stalfos]

On the real though, Mulch never PT slipped, I made that up

... I see.
Good thing I'm voting you instead of Ghost then.

tinfoil: my 1698 was edited without the core message shifting to fool people into overlooking that post (emphasis on how good the Theta wagon was.

Can I get you to explain why you're preferring an MM4 lynch over Theta? You appear to be pushing both with equal enthusiasm but your reasoning for Theta seems stronger to me.

Do me a favor, rest of Town as well...tell me your feelings on the grapes slot.

I checked his ISO. He did lie pretty low all D1 but apart from that I'm not seeing anything I don't like so I'm happy with him as town for now. The read development on MM4 is particularly good.


-Key

[Stalfos]

Who claimed?

mm4 claimed gting mafia. Please help me lynch it.

You're leaning very hard on Creature's reads. I don't think MM4 is scum.
Regarding massive, he was one of our townreads towards the end of D1 and I'm happy to keep him there for now though his flimsy switch to the Mulch wagon and his sharp change in read on DiamondSentinel have me wavering on that.

Who claimed?

DiamondSentinel didn't claim but seemed like he was going to in 1665. Then changed his mind based on the size of his wagon.


@MathBlade (and everyone): I'm just going to point out that Theta's pronoun is listed as 'she'.
So is MM4's, for that matter. It's listed beside every post they make. This sort of thing is worth checking.

PEdit: oh okay Theta did it.


-Key

[Stalfos]

So mario being scum because he's the most likely to kill creature is especially meh but it ultimately depends on things we don't have the luxury of knowing at the moment (primarly what kind of position scum were in after day 1- if they had the wiggle room to wifom a kill or actually wanted to off a threat)

This is a good point that I like. I hadn't thought of it that way - but yeah, without stronger justification, NKA on its own is not a good enough reason to lynch MM4. Not a fan of the way she swept Creature's missing read under the rug though. And yes, both heads here are pretty tryhard

I'm also veering back onto my scumread of Ghostlin. His content has gone back downhill. 1812, 1839, 1840, 1865 (last four posts in his ISO) are all pretty fluffy.


-Key

[Stalfos]

People not on board with diamond/are townreading him: where are you? That fronts awfully quiet at the moment if it exists.

I'm not on board with a Diamond lynch. I could go either way, but I don't think I want to go in that direction for now.

I would feel better about him if he did the things he said he'd do in 1718 though. Particularly this:

Next post I'll quote my old readlist and go through it.

which I don't remember ever happening.


-Key

[Stalfos]

well i just checked and the answer should be no
so

VOTE: grapes
VOTE: mathblade
VOTE: not_mafia

VOTE: mulch

VOTE: aronis
VOTE: smocaine
VOTE: kise
VOTE: ghostlin

VOTE: theta alpine

VOTE: massive
VOTE: camn
VOTE: diamondsentinel
VOTE: maestro

VOTE: ginngie

VOTE: stalfos
VOTE: mariomaniac4
VOTE: radiant moonlight
VOTE: mastina

...
This is a lot of fuss considering there hasn't been a huge issue of mastina deleting readslists, and that it's pretty trivial to just save a copy in case she does. Having grapes as top town for being universally townread instead of your own read sounds like these aren't even strong enough reads to be worth anchoring so dramatically. And no vote even with three players in your scumpool?

I can go for this.

VOTE: Theta Alpine


@Smocaine 1927: I'm not sure what you think you're achieving there.


-Key

[Stalfos]

also stalfos let me ask you something

where is mulchs readslist

Okay. So.

Mulch didn't make a readslist and have it deleted afaik, so you're not exactly making a great argument for why you needed to make such a huge fuss over your unalterable readslist. You're trying to solve a problem that doesn't yet exist.

In addition, a plain readslist means nearly nothing on its own, same in this game as others. Mulch's reads haven't vanished from the game, it's just that players trust their own judgement more, and him making a fancy list out of votes would not fix that. Creature was scumreading MM4 before his death and we know that even though nearly all the posts about it are gone, but if you've been paying attention to the case against her you'll realise

reads on their own aren't enough.

In a hypothetical world where you have died and flipped town, this readslist is going to mean very little unless we have a reason to trust it and I don't see any of that.

It just looks like an attempt to look busy without actually contributing, made worse by the way you're overstating how "useful" it is.


-Key

[Stalfos]

Intervening, not a fan of the Diamond lynch. Someone tl;dr to me why he's scum because I see no reason to think so beyond Snarky powerlurking.

I think this should be obvious but this game is mostly being run by Key now as a heads up. This is the first time I've been on in like a week. There's a lot I can say about Day 1 that might be helpful to people but I don't really think I can go into it much without putting a lot of the blame on Mulch, and that's not who I am. At the end of the day it was my fault. The short of it is that while I'm incredibly disappointed in both my and Mulch's play, and that normally this would fill me with the fire to slaughter these bastards and leave them impaled on my spear, I have not been able to dedicate any time to this game. I've come to terms with it so I don't really feel I can get across how much I hate it, but I've already cried over it twice.

I'm trying to transition my role to serving as a sanity check on Key's reads/thought processes. That said that's more for her sake rather than the game's so I'm sorry I can't contribute more. I cannot make any sacrifices for this game, what I'm dealing with is just too important, and I'm sorry.

-Prism

[Stalfos]

Get the feeling that Theta is also not a great push, think the readslist is legitimate, but I'll hash that out with Key later because right now I've only skimmed Day 2.

Think camn/MM4/RM are better places to look.

[Stalfos]

Welcome, UnaBombaH! I'd be really interested in your thoughts on the game so far.

(you guys know who you're lynching, you're just dragging it out)

that's the impression you're getting here?


I've been kind of townreading MM4 so far but that denial of Creature's case on her (in response to 1803: no it wasn't a

case

case but from my understanding Creature's reads tend to be significantly better than his ability to push them) really did put a bad taste in my mouth.

I'm still interested in Theta but will double check that based on Prism input, as much as they can give.


@RM: are both of your heads playing?


-Key

[Stalfos]

Too much talk about wagons and their stalling. More and more I'm feeling that wagons stalling is not a result of them being on scum, but just something that happens to most wagons because the first few votes will always be easier to pick up. I don't think I'm going to be taking any more "wagon stalling = scum" arguments seriously from now on.


@DiamondSentinel: You're making my life really fricking hard here. I can't read you if you don't give your thought process. Your old readslist, which you have still failed to go through despite me reminding you, is pretty stale now. You also haven't given any examples of where we've used moon logic, which I'd still appreciate because if I'm being unclear I can try and fix it up. It would also help me see where your head's at.

Mulch - 10 (Radiant Moonlight, Stalfos, Maestro, Ghostlin, massive, Kise, Not_Mafia, Smocaine, CheekyTeeky, Mulch)

Lynch

Looking at this list, I'm guessing that Mulch's wagon is scumdriven. Probably have every scum on there. As far as I can tell, the only ones who have any room for towniness is Stalfos, massive, and NM. Smocaine and Ghostlin are solid nulls. Which leaves the scum team as definitely RM, maestro, and Kise, with Ghostlin as the most likely culprit for the fourth member.

However, I can't shake the feeling that Stalfos is scummy. It's been nagging me from the beginning.

You've decided the entire scumteam was on the Mulch wagon? I seriously question that assumption. Especially when you back it up with "this assertion is just dumb enough to work."
Would you be able to explain why each of the individual players you've identified is scum by play?

Also some people (myself included) really do mind what pronouns you use, and telling us to not care because you don't care is not helpful considering we're in very different circumstances. Just please keep that in mind.

well if i'm wrong about creature's case can you tell me what else he said apart from "activity is ai yay"? because that is all i remember from it and i don't recall anyone correcting it.

I think that's a misrepresentation of his case, because I think it was more "activity is ai

for MM4

yay".
As I recall, he was initially scumreading you because of activity on the basis that you in particular are more active as town and less so as scum. I can't remember what your response was but I don't think he was satisfied by it considering I don't think he dropped it.
At that point it changed to be more focused on the fact that all his posts on you were being deleted. I don't remember if he had other points.
It's not a death sentence in itself, no. But he absolutely made more posts about you, so your attempt today to reduce it down to the like two posts that remain and ignoring all the ones that were deleted is pretty suspect.


-Key

[Stalfos]

Key, I already sorta made the 'entire wagon on Mulch is scum is ridiculous' point, but it's good to see someone else agreeing with me that's a stretch. Do you think that stretch is facepalm worthy or scum?

I doubt too many people disagree with you on this. I'm more inclined to think facepalm - town is unlikely to just go along with it so I don't know what the scum motivation would be. I'll be around more in ~24 hours to go into this further if you want to discuss it. I just wanted to say that I saw this and I've saved the post in case it vanishes and I'll get to it when I can.


-Key

[Stalfos]

Oh, apparently I'm being prodded.

There's nothing I find worth commenting on.

wtf

There's only so much evasion I can take before it gets too stretched to be town. I even checked to make sure my posts were still there, still unaltered. They are.

(imagine me voting him here, except then realising I have no idea how big the wagon is and the pages are loading so slowly for me that the idea of going through and counting myself is really unappealing. Definitely voting him in spirit though.)

Key, I already sorta made the 'entire wagon on Mulch is scum is ridiculous' point, but it's good to see someone else agreeing with me that's a stretch. Do you think that stretch is facepalm worthy or scum?

I doubt too many people disagree with you on this. I'm more inclined to think facepalm - town is unlikely to just go along with it so I don't know what the scum motivation would be. I'll be around more in ~24 hours to go into this further if you want to discuss it. I just wanted to say that I saw this and I've saved the post in case it vanishes and I'll get to it when I can.


-Key

Possibly to look like face-plant worthy town? Generally scum wants to push lynches, but you know, there's an element of 'god damn it, moon-moon' that probably could take a scumtard to LYLO? "Too dumb for scum" exists for a reason.

Kind of lost me there, but I think I see what you're getting at.

My reasoning was that you're far more likely to see that kind of odd logic from town who thinks they've struck gold than scum. Yeah, scum could emulate it, and if Diamond thought he was going down he might go for that kind of "too farfetched to be scum" strategy. But the simplest explanation is usually right.

However yeah. This was contingent on him standing behind his point and at least showing some genuine belief in it. But since my last post, he demonstrated that he's not going to. I would think prod dodging at this point because of lack of things to say, for someone who's been so active and motivated, is far more likely to come from scum than town.

Prism's probably going to be annoyed at me for overriding their opinion of the lynch but oh well, I'm driving, and I'm on board now. Would very much like to hear from the MM4 replacement though. Sad she's gone

replace me please.

My only glimmering spark of hope in the distance..

I'm having trouble getting a hold of this game anyway, and losing Mario...

Hey hey, in the interests of lowering the replacement rate in this game because I'm pretty sure it's hell on you guys, is there anything I/other players can do to help you get a hold of things?


-Key

[Stalfos]

I see DiamondSentinel is L-2 if MathBlade's VC is correct. I'll leave off voting there for now. I think I still like it on Theta.

Very straightforward readslists would help me.
Top to bottom, town to scum.
Colors might even help digesting.

Okay, I can do this for you. Helps me as well to sort it out.

Most town: Ghostlin, grapes

Sort of town: Kise, MathBlade, massive

Suspicious of: UnaBombaH, RadiantMoonlight, Smocaine, Not_Mafia

Most likely scum: Aronis, camn, DiamondSentinel, MarioManiac4, Theta Alpine


To be clear, this is my readslist, not a joint one. I can elaborate on some of these better than others. I'll do that soon, likely tomorrow.

any questions you have for me while i am here

If you had to dayvig someone right now, who would it be and why? :]0

i would say diamond but i actually want to see the rest of their reads

so i will say mariomaniac4 because they have not been replaced yet

although radiant moonlight is a close second cause they were the slot pushing mulch the most
which i guess could mean they are town
but that is wifom

Was the MM4 choice solely due to the replacement?
Also I'm not sure what you mean by wifom here.


@2068: Look after yourself, mastina!


-Key

[Stalfos]

Stalfos, you have DS and Theta as probable scum. Do you think they are together or are you sring them individually?

Individually. I don't think it's that useful to try and look for associatives at this point.

here you go:

...
what was that
Did you randomise that until mastina was at the bottom or something?

Also did you really come out of the woodwork after all that time because you got voted?

VOTE: Aronis This needs to die. Dead weight.

VOTE: Aronis
I can support this. Let's see what happens if we get a ball rolling in this direction.


-Key

[Stalfos]

I don't believe scum would claim a role that can stop the NK and then claim ignorance of the mechanics as a reason that they didn't do it.
DS's frustration with the game seems real.
Except for Smocaine, there's been very little effort to prevent the DS lynch despite an apathetic gamestate that would make it very easy for them to push an alternative to their buddy.

We should lynch someone else.


In related news, Una's 2186 seemed to come to the exact opposite conclusion as me. Spinning the development of this wagon as DS

not

getting lynched and using that as reasoning to vote him just comes across very contrived.


-Key

[Stalfos]

Checking in before night. I'm suspicious that the thread hasn't been locked yet.

~ ARE YOU WILLING TO LYNCH KISE TOMORROW ~

(please pick one of the following if your name is on this list)

Mathblade

~ Yes/No

Aronis

~ Yes/No

camn

~ Yes/No

DiamondSentinel

~ Yes/No

Theta Alpine

~ Yes/No

MarioManiac4 replacee

~ Yes/No

Stalfos

~ Yes/No

UnaBombaH

~ Yes/No

Not_Mafia

~ Yes/No

Ghostlin

~ Yes/No

Kise

~ Yes/No

Smocaine

~ Yes/Yes

grapes

~ Yes/No

Radiant Moonlight

~ Yes/No

massive

~ Yes/No

Not sure yet. Inclined against it right now. You've got DS on the list?

After seeing how Aronis acted end of Day, I'm probably going to reconsider that read.

I'm also keen to hear why grapes forced that lynch through.


-Key

[Stalfos]

Let's not quicklynch grapes - given the theme of the game I can see his story making sense and if so, we don't want to lose a fourth town PR. I don't know why he'd pull that as scum.

However the same question applies - grapes, why didn't you JK mastina?

I'm going to reread this weekend, possibly when I don't have a splitting headache.


-Key

[Stalfos]

^???


Yeah I'm not really into lynching grapes. Partly because I found Aronis at end of day to be pretty town - since the only reason to push the DS lynch as scum would be to save Aronis, I don't find that particularly convincing.

Not much has changed since my last readslist but I also think that Stalfos is town.
Prism is super egocentric about his scumgame and I can't see his personality style completely checking out and letting Keychain run the show. I feel like that's a lot more likely coming from Prism town.

It's NAI. We were both keen for this hydra game, and I don't think they'd be skipping out on me as any alignment if it weren't due to external factors.

So you're really playing this now? That's nice.

Ghostlin has left my townpool. I don't like the way that he dealt with DS at end of day yesterday, it didn't feel like he was interacting in a TvT manner. I don't like the way he said Kise was okay if the rest of his pile didn't happen but wouldn't do anything to make it happen, just generally I don't like him very much and can't seem to figure out why I did so he's back in the scumpool.

I've been going the other way on Ghost. I don't know why someone having a read they feel iffy about - they wouldn't be opposed, but they won't pursue it - makes them more likely to be scum. If you could explain more on the TvT point that would be good too, I don't understand what you mean.

I tried to find any conversation there was about a vig on earlier days..can anyone point me to it? (trying to re-read a few ISOs, and I think something might have changed/been deleted since I joined the game)

I'm not entirely sure what you're looking for. There were two kills N1, there was a bit of vig talk after that? Otherwise the search function could be useful.
search.php?keywords=Vig*&t=73390&sf=msgonly


Think I'm interested in Theta, Toranaga, Una, RM for today.

Tor, I'd really like your thoughts, as a fresh pair of eyes.


-Key

[Stalfos]

Think I'm interested in Theta, Toranaga, Una, RM for today.

Tor, I'd really like your thoughts, as a fresh pair of eyes.

Why are you scumreading us?

Assuming I'm talking to RC here?
Mostly on reflection from Day 1, and mostly you because I don't think there's been a whole lot from Titus. You went full tilt against Mulch

immediately

, making excessive demands like "never scumread me again or I'll policy you" and "why are you singling me out" when he asked you fairly reasonable questions. You've come across strangely aggressive much more than you seem like you've been trying to solve.

The thing with Mulch also doesn't seem like a fight you'd have gotten involved in if you were town, particularly now he's confirmed town, because the main effect was to clog up the already confusing thread and reduce the ability of the rest of town to keep invested. I know why our slot pushed him, but it looks like your foundation there is pretty flimsy on inspection. You appear to have been scumreading him for needlessly antagonising you but it really doesn't look like he was. Most of that was coming from you.

Just to clear my own thoughts: I'm currently seeing town!Toranaga, and I actually like his analysis on wagons at post #2563 (see above).

In the scenario of scum!Toranaga, I'd say he has nothing to do with grapes/aronis - I don't see the reasoning behind that post if there were to be a hidden connection with either.

So are we willing to lynch a claimed PR, or should we go with the alternative route?

Una, 2186 still doesn't make any sense to me. You were using the fact that Diamond was not yet lynched as evidence for him being scum, which is kind of bad because it seems you could use it to scumread literally any of the wagons that exist that haven't made it to lynch. What was the specific resistance you were seeing?

What is your ideal alternative route, and what do you think of Aronis now?


-Key

[Stalfos]

"without meta"
That wasn't a meta read. If it wasn't clear, I'm thinking yes.

I'm not voting anyone right now, am I?

VOTE: Radiant Moonlight

[Stalfos]

Mostly on reflection from Day 1, and mostly you because I don't think there's been a whole lot from Titus. You went full tilt against Mulch immediately, making excessive demands like "never scumread me again or I'll policy you" and "why are you singling me out" when he asked you fairly reasonable questions. You've come across strangely aggressive much more than you seem like you've been trying to solve.

.
What part of this feels to you like it's something that's more likely to come from me as scum than town, particularly after the newbie that you deathtunneled me in for similar reasons?

The situations seem quite different to me and the parallel you're trying to draw here is pretty superficial. In that game I thought you were being unexpectedly touchy, yes, and I misinterpreted it as being a deliberate scum tactic. Sorry.

But you never used emotion as your main reason for doing anything iirc, and you were conscious of the possibility that you might be wrong even when you were very sure, and made contingency plans. Whereas here, it seems like it was your only justification for pushing Mulch was that he should have known you better and was clearly deliberately antagonising you. There's not much underneath that, no real logic that I can see.
It's not just the fact that you're being strangely aggressive. It's that there's nothing else to it.

Maybe I'm missing something, or misremembering. Can you summarise the main reasons you had for scumreading Mulch?

because the main effect was to clog up the already confusing thread and reduce the ability of the rest of town to keep invested.

This isn't something that I would ever do as a deliberate strategy and I'm not sure why you think I would.

Uh do I need Prism to come back and get into a wordy 1v1 with you? because I've absolutely seen you do something very like it as scum before, in n1805. You do use it, whether it's deliberate or not. Also remember that time in that game that you said you explicitly avoid using the strategy you were, in fact, using? Forgive me if I don't take your word for it.

However, if I tried to only read you based on what I know of you as a player I'd fail every time. So if I see you using a strategy that is pro-scum, I reserve the right to scumread you for it unless I have reason to believe you might be doing it as town. This is not going to be a useful tack for you.

ok I read it like that, so.. and your thoughts on tor since he took over the mm4 slot?

Has done a really good job catching up, and I agree with the read on RM. Don't like the read on grapes, going from believing him in 2524 to 2537 then abruptly flipping and putting grapes in his theorised scum teams based on... setup spec as shown in 2539? In this game that seems pretty unreliable as a basis.
However for the most part he's improved the slot for me.

Like it's day 3 you owe me a break by now go push someone else.

When people bother to actually try to read you and conversation starts about you and there is something objective to change my read sure.

Right now no one is even looking at you and it pisses me off.

I see Toranaga and I are chopped liver.


-Key

[Stalfos]

He toyed with my emotions in a newbie-LyLo by saying that I have no reason to scumread him, and if I do, I'm bad and just scumreading him because of paranoia and the "will to scumread him".

He did it to me too, in the newbie game he's referencing. We were both town though I'm kind of worried about scumreading him again here, and it makes me hope Prism comes back as the aforementioned "sanity check".

Una, 2186 still doesn't make any sense to me. You were using the fact that Diamond was not yet lynched as evidence for him being scum, which is kind of bad because it seems you could use it to scumread literally any of the wagons that exist that haven't made it to lynch. What was the specific resistance you were seeing?

Inactivity from most other players, whom I assumed to be town.

? I don't follow. Why would this make DS scum? I assumed that the perceived resistance would at least come from possible scum buddies, not an apathetic town.

Every time I feel like I'm approaching some sort of conclusion or realizing ANYTHING, I get shut down.

What do you mean here? How are you being shut down?


-Key

[Stalfos]

RM, was that you referring to me as "bad town" in 2661? Breaking my little heart, you are

If you think this slot is town, why would you ask me to explain my scumread on you then ignore my response and instead dismiss me as incompetent? You're not really doing much to change my mind here.

alright we don't have enough to go on here.

think we just go theta -> unabombah and move from there. can't really clear anyone.

pretty sure theta and una are scum though so there's that.

vote: theta

I think theta spewed herself scum here math

vote: radiant moonlight

eh

This isn't all your posts between 2697 and 2713, just the ones I felt were relevant.
I don't follow how you went from Theta to RM here, completely bypassing your stated secondary scumread Una, especially after the not-at-all towny 2707. Somehow coming to townread Theta after you thought she spewed herself scum is also puzzling. What are your thoughts on Una?
You've got unnatural progressions going on here, though I agree with where you ended up. Also you made a couple posts from your hydra account earlier after the thread was unlocked as well.


-Key

[Stalfos]

I explained how I've come to townread theta. I thought she was spewing herself scum through disingenuously claiming she was lynched through counting in mastina's vote, and thought una was scum with her who coordinate fake hammer + having her try to spew herself town. one the theta read goes away, so does the una. not that I think una is necessarily town, but after theta my strongest scumread is still RM.

I can see how my progressions feel unnatural for a mafiascummer and am not surprised I'm getting scumread for jumping all over the place here. if I had a good grasp of the game I'd be pushing stuff harder and more confidently, but it's not the case.

No, this makes sense - I missed the association you were making between Theta and Una. In that case, progressions are more understandable as going back to a stronger independent scumread rather than following the scum!Theta path.

I'm pretty set on RM being scum right now, and I really don't think your dispute with RC is faked between partners, particularly that soft claim thing. So I don't think I'm really interested in lynching you today, particularly over RM. If they flip town or I stop scumreading them, I'll reevaluate.

I essentially agree with Stalfos's last post, that's why my vote is there.

In between my post and yours, Tor made 2733, what did you think of it?

Anyone but me think that kise is basically obvscum at this point?

I don't really see it. Why?


-Key

[Stalfos]

I don't know how to change your read on me Key. I'm sorry if my response upset you but I'm really weary of scumreads like these and this isn't the first time you've berserk deathtunneled me so idek.

What a weird response. It's your lack of response that's bothering me, I don't see how you can make this comment and then the one where I was "crying about me not responding to her case", where you realise you... didn't respond. Certainly doesn't seem like you're town townreading me and trying to win.
In saying this, I do wonder if I'm giving you more ammunition to personify me as a child throwing a tantrum regarding all this getting upset and crying you seem to think I'm doing. What fun.

I worked my ass off to change your read on me in the newbie and town still ended up losing and right now I don't have the energy to deal with you and Math.

You worked your ass off to change my read on you, yes, and you actually

succeeded

by the end of the day. Or at least you got me to ease off enough to realise the scum lynched D1 had spewed you town.
So I let you lynch the tracker's inno instead of trying to lynch you, and then I got NKed, you replaced out and town lost because your replacement didn't show up to vote in LyLo. Not sure how that has anything to do with this situation, except as AtE.

If/when Toranaga flips scum you said you didn't think we were SvS: will you lay off me then?

Probably. At this point, I don't really think he will though.

At the very least I'm not voting or going anywhere near him while I can't get a wagon on Toranaga because town is being bad.

Do you think it helps your cause to say things like this?


Man, I'm losing track of who's in this game.


-Key

[Stalfos]

N_M, you're still alive and in this game. Who's scum, apart from Ginngie?

[Stalfos]

This is such a low hanging fruit read because I'm barely giving fucks to be in this game. I am literally, at this point, still in this game, because it seems cruelly unfair to subject someone else to having try to organically create reads when the functions of this game work to foil giving out reads, never mind concise reads.

Why is this specific to you? Much of the playerlist seems to feel this way to some extent.

At no point did I do anything to belittle you in the way that you're suggesting and you only see it that way because you're taking my frustration personally.

I don't think I'm taking it personally, but okay.
I do think it's interesting how you translate my scumread of you - which comes from you playing like scum - into this emotional interpretation. It seems like a way of discrediting my read, along with referring to me and MathBlade both as "bad town" like I mentioned before.
Also did I see you say in 2824 that in our two games together (wow omg what a sample size) I have a 100% rate of misreading you? Really? After I finally got it right in 1805 (which I can prove with a VC)? In the recent one I do think I also got it right in the end, but hindsight is 20/20 and I have no evidence of that decision while I was still uninformed so can't be sure.
Either way, your only motivation for making that statement is to discredit scumreads on you in ways that don't have any bearing on your alignment here - and which would therefore be trivially easy for you to make as scum.

You're not the first person to react the way you are and you're not the last this is just an inevitable thing that I'm dealing with. This isn't about you this is about this being a constant thing that I'm just tired of.

I am sorry if that's the case, as always, but I don't doubt you'd pull this as scum as well as town. So this line of argument would be considerably more believable if you looked at my reasons for scumreading you, told me why they are wrong and unjustified, and

then

did this AtE. You kind of skipped that middle step. All my reasons for scumreading you are still there.

doot

7 is a registered sex offender

VOTE: Ginngie

Pordge

please don't do this


-Key

[Stalfos]

Assuming "supported" means "supported the lynch of", it makes sense as not wanting to vote you if his major scumread was pushing you.

Questions for the game:
a) Do you tr Kise's play
b) If not, does Tor's tr on the slot come off as genuine?

Definitely not townreading it anymore but not so sure it's coming from scum.
Kise, why is Ghost scum?

Spoiler: Context

Anyone else agree Ghostlin is playing a good game if scum?

I'd pursue his lynch after 3 scum die

FIRST OF FUCKING ALL

Replace out is thattaway >>>>>

At smocaine, why wuld I replace out if I'm scum that's roughly 2 mislynches away from victory?

Sounds like you know I'm town

Sounds like, a SCUMSLIP

UNVOTE:
VOTE: smocaine

Stalfos, Ghostlin and one more is scum. Who y'all hobo?

And I would think the second question is still valid regardless of someone's Kise read.

It looks like Tor's read on Kise is more conflicted than just townreading him, and that does seem pretty genuine to me. I don't think he'd go from "probably town" to noting scummy aspects to his play and putting him as possible scum so quickly unless he was town really trying to sort.

Spoiler: Tor's Kise read

yeah kise is probably town. he has a very strong start and is pushing many scum reads. I think e.g. a post like this on d1:

@Math/everyone, Mulch is still scum. Five minutes or not, the mod still edited postsand didn't change anything. All it did was make people think something was edited. But more important, the PRISM HYDRA is winning this fight.

camn's backing of Mulch is strange but I don't otherwise scumread her. She's cop worthy though

Aronis is scum too and Stalfos will help lynch them next. Yes Stalfos, you'll be pulling that trigger soon. That hebi vote is horrible and hebichan explained why

Unless the last time we met, I'm not townreading you Math. Neutral at best, going off guy from reading recent pages

And I don't like naming townreads

How can I help?

is very hard for scum to make. Also I've seen kise's play in alisae's game recently, and he wasn't pushing anything strongly like that at all until eli trashed him. also his reasonings were pretty bad that game, here he is all fired up with scum reads early. I think it's a bit unlikely a scum!kise thing... though ofc his content and attitude dropped a bunch from that fiery d1 until this gameday.

kise defending theta and casting shade on grapes doesn't look good and the way he checked out of the thread is... interesting.

if theta = scum, I think the team is theta;unabombah;ghostlin... and then I'm gonna say RM doesn't bus the fuck out of all his scumbuddies here, but if it's not him I think kise is way more likely a wolf than camn.

vote: unabombah

una>theta>RM

if RM town > kise > ghostlin

if RM scum > ghostlin > kise

aronis, smocaine, grapes, math are town

stalfos is probably town

N_M and camn should be looked at if theta flips town, in which case always lynch RM first

-Key

[Stalfos]

Hm. Why exactly does Titus want to create a town block via proxy -- Is she invested/interested enough? If so where she at?

Also who are all these townies that are splitting the votes, cause between that post you made earlier and your previous post, camn, Smocaine and myself are the people who made votes, and camn didn't vote anyone outside of your preferred 3 (me/Tor/Una)

I think that's referring to the votes on RM, Smocaine and Theta if there are any remaining, not as a particularly recent thing.


@RC: do you think I should be townreading you or something? You seem to be relying on "Keychain isn't allowed to scumread me because she got it wrong once" as the core part of your argument against my read. Which is

useless

because sometimes

you roll scum

. You act like I should townread you every game. And despite me asking you multiple times, you have not yet provided a single reason for me being wrong. So at the risk of showing my ego... why should I think I am? Using such a blanket approach gives the strong impression that I'm actually not and you're just going out of your way to avoid engaging with my reasons and instead discredit my read via ad hominem - that my reasons are invalid because they come from me. You are not playing like town and I'd love to have Prism around to give a second opinion but unfortunately that's not an option right now and I'm getting so tired of you stonewalling me.

Okay so you realize that no matter who we individually vote town is so divided that scum will easily just pile onto a wagon with enough town voters and that will be the lynch?

If you're not going to play the fucking game then give your vote to someone who will. In everyone's next posts I want a read on Unabombah, Toranaga, and Kise and we're going to all agree as a group to pile on the one that has the most scum reads from town players.

Oh you know how I love when you demand that everyone do what you say in their next post

Una is my top scumread out of the three and I don't think I'm voting Tor today. Obviously you're still top lynch priority!

VOTE: Tor If I didn't tr you I would have called your tor having a different hs giving him advanced bop bs.

??? what does this say?


-Key

[Stalfos]

FIRST OF FUCKING ALL

Replace out is thattaway >>>>>

@everyone am i wrong for calling this a scumslip? whats your opinion of smoc's post here

I see no scumslip? Just someone being cheeky.

Also seems a bit tough to hunt down Titus's activity elsewhere and use that against her, I don't think it has any bearing on this game.

I'm voting you because you're voting me. if toranaga is the cw he gets to vote me for free. if you're the cw he has claimed a scumread on you and his vote is very revealing.

lets take a leap of faith together and vote ghostlin!

unvote
vote ghostlin

whoa what?


@RM: Okay.

You have put more effort into complaining about the fact that I am scumreading you and threatening to avoid me in future games than you have into engaging with why I think you're scum and arguing my points. I feel like this conversation would be much less tiring for both of us if you just did that, but you're... not. We can happily avoid each other in mafia games forever after this if you want and just chat about Zelda or whatever instead, but I still think you're scum here.

You are somehow blaming me for you lynching UCV in that game. I should have continued to defend him and so it's also my fault, yes, but take ownership for your own failings. It's good for you. You for some reason didn't want to scumhunt in that game and voluntarily focused on changing my read, despite me

asking you

to stop and to scumhunt instead. You didn't derail it - the newbies were the stars of that game. I did not come into this game in order to tunnel you - you signed up to this knowing I was in it, so cut that right out.

Getting scumread is part of the game. You don't get a free pass because you're you. You've seen me scumhunt, and interacting with my scumreads is part of how I work out if I'm on the right track. Don't throw a fit when I want to interact with you.

Especially

if you think I'm town.

tl;dr

: You are playing like scum. You are reacting like scum. So I am scumreading you. If you contest this, tell me why. That's all I want.


I'd like to speak with anybody else, please. I'm struggling with this game. Una, how did you go from

I suck at towntelling myself, but for now, I can't honestly pick a solid townread outside of Toranaga.

to

Ok..so my "interaction" with Theta-wagon is scummy regardless of their flip?

If we are both scum it was coordinated?
If Theta is town, I just thought I'd get a ton of towncred for faking a hammer on a player who was widely scumread? Like, versus saying that I think they are town?

Thetas reaction seemed fishy to me too, and what I found more curious was how you got to use that as a way to get out of the wagon. Didn't feel like bussing anymore?

UNVOTE:
Now look what you made me do!
I'm no longer voting Radiant..

VOTE: Toranaga

I'm willing to lynch Theta or this, don't care.

?

Like you said you had a solid townread then you abruptly reversed it due to his scumread but I didn't see a lot in the middle.

Also there's something here that bothers me on reread, but I need to check timing.


-Key

[Stalfos]

@Stalfos if RM is scum who are their buddies?

I would think Una at least. Not really sure otherwise. It's not really a rabbit hole I want to go too far down preflip. But I should look into other things apart from RM, I suppose.

Stalfos is either a genuinely nice and involving person, or scum.

You're sweet. You also didn't explain your Tor read reversal that I asked about in 3013, I think

Like

Toranaga...Ech.

what does this

mean

?

reasons to not lynch Kise go.

I still really townread his early play. But based on his more recent content I wouldn't be opposed.


-Key


PEdit: is that the Tor read? Or a different one? I think the Tor read went the other way.

[Stalfos]

VOTE: UnaBombaH

I don't know how I feel about the counterwagon theory - you mean at least one of RM's buddies would be on the counterwagon with them? I don't know if Kise is towny enough for that to be solid.

But I'm more concerned by the fact that the VC you quote was right after Una's "don't visit me invests" post. If he was about to lose a scumbuddy - his post definitely sounds like he thought it was going to happen - and was seriously worried about getting guiltied, it makes a lot of sense from him as scum to head that off at the pass to avoid losing two members of the scum team in a row.


-Key

[Stalfos]

Was Tor's replacement not killed overnight or am I misunderstanding something?

Thank you for your support MilkyTank.

I do not understand the reference but I am guessing you mean me by the capital M?

I do not understand the reference but I am guessing you mean me by the capital M?

I give up on comprehending this shit I am going to work.
Hopefully by the time that is done someone will explain this.

N_M's avatar, which he helpfully posted for you as explanation, is the Pokemon Miltank. "MilkyTank" is referencing this and therefore referring to N_M.

So Kise scum - Stalfos/camn/Una town.
Where would that land you guys? (assume you knew these for a fact)

top of my head I'd put Theta in there, not sure about the last. I'll think about it.


-Key

@Mod: Stalfos V/LA for 4 days

[Stalfos]

I've always wondered when the prod timer started after V/LA ends, seems very quick. I didn't even know since my main didn't get prodded

Aronis can't make it to lylo y/n?

I'm not too fussed either way - I'd hope if he was town he'd pull up his socks at the final hour, metaphor metaphor. I'm also never a fan of lynching on that basis.

What are your reads Aronis?

tbh I don't really read books anymore. They're usually boring, so yeah. I don't have any good reads to suggest for you, sorry

*sighs* Welp. Turns out I can give enough fucks to do this:

Vote: Aronis

Ghostlin it seems like you're coasting way too hard on this "I don't know and I don't care" tack.

I don’t see scum doing something that bad intentionally or otherwise. It’s too IDGAF.

I think his actions have been completely NAI, so far so, that I'm actually thinking he is scum!

... Run this one by me again Una?


-Key

[Stalfos]

@Mod: Stalfos V/LA for 4 days

[Stalfos]

... Are you all right, Ginngie?


I don't really understand the flashwagon on Theta. I'd still prefer Una.

... Run this one by me again Una?

In short? He could be anything, and I think trying to analyze this "not-interested"-attitude is futile in this specific case.

I mean you said you thought he was so null he was scum. I don't really follow that thought process.


Also I didn't expect your VT claim after yesterday you said

Also warning potential town investigative not to visit me. I have my apartment full of traps because my parents left me home alone.

Like that seems sketch as heck.


-Key

[Stalfos]

I think Ghostie is my top lynch prospect for today as of right now. Like Theta is prettty scummy but the way a whole bunch of people have sort of just fallen into scumreading her seems off to me.

But still

well great

3 of you are town
3 of you are scum

and i have no clue which is which
my reads are obviously wrong
so i do need to reset a bit

on a side note
it looks like my straight record of town not winning any of my games will continue

"no clue"?
3337 looks like a vig claiming to me. I'd expect town struggling for reads to have picked up on something like that.

well great

3 of you are town
3 of you are scum

and i have no clue which is which
my reads are obviously wrong
so i do need to reset a bit

on a side note
it looks like my straight record of town not winning any of my games will continue

So, obviously one doesn't just vote randomly in LYLO, but why does this read like a scum claim? I can't put which part of this is the most horrible here.

It would be nice if you could at least try explain why you think it reads like a scum claim instead of posing such a weird leading question.

I'll be back when I'm less tired.


-Key

[Stalfos]

Yeah a claim from Ghostlin would be pretty good.

The vig shot wasn't bad. Would have been better if it had hit scum but as it is it means we aren't in MyLo with Aronis.

I think Ghostie is my top lynch prospect for today as of right now. Like Theta is prettty scummy but the way a whole bunch of people have sort of just fallen into scumreading her seems off to me.

But still

well great

3 of you are town
3 of you are scum

and i have no clue which is which
my reads are obviously wrong
so i do need to reset a bit

on a side note
it looks like my straight record of town not winning any of my games will continue

"no clue"?
3337 looks like a vig claiming to me. I'd expect town struggling for reads to have picked up on something like that.

i was sort of suspicious of everything when i made that post
but seeing the lack of a counterclaim puts me at ease

math is probably town also
my initial doubt in him this day has dissipated

i just need to figure out who is town between you ghostlin and kise now

that said i think camn is scum this game

Yeah I suppose you couldn't have been sure I wouldn't CC that, so that makes sense.

wait a moment it was camn that did the whole ghostlin is conf-town thing

alright it is between stalfos and kise for the last town between me math and not mafia

Not Mafia claimed vig.

That doesn’t make Not Mafia town. I think Not Mafia is But the claim doesn’t make Not Mafia town.

Why do you townread Not Mafia?

The claim makes N_M certainly not the lynch for today.


Also 2018 started a few hours ago for me, so happy new year all!


-Key

[Stalfos]

Prod dodging a little bit for now, sorry.

Kise, if you're claiming daycop would you be able to hardclaim instead of leaving it all vague?


-Key

[Stalfos]

We're VT.

Alright well, I didn't want to get them killed as it is someone who is still alive

With this being a crazy game type I wanted to check my sanity out so I investigated myself. I am SANE cop as the result came back innocent.

That in mind, here is where we are with claims:
Kise (confirmed town via result)
Not mafia (vig)
Theta (VT)
Camn (VT)

Math ghost & Stalfos are unknown. I'm not bothered about the order but would like a claim at their earliest convenixe

I'm vt

What were you trying to achieve with your daycop thing?

This post is illegible on my phone. Can you please repost?

uh there is no post, not sure if you didn't see it was just a set of tags when you quoted it or are just making a joke.


-Key

[Stalfos]

Joking is a valid reason. I thought there might have been something more to it.

Prism

... did you know yesterday was the two month anniversary of Prism's most recent post?

[Stalfos]

:/
I don't have one. I think we lynch one of Ghost or Theta but I don't think they're both scum after 3358. Unless it was distancing since one of their lynches seems very likely today, I guess. I'd go Theta over Ghost.


-Key

[Stalfos]

I'm getting cold feet on Ghostlin tho. Scum should be excited at being inches away from victory and not flake like this.

I agree with this, if it's not due to external causes it seems unlikely that scum!Ghost would flake here.

I've never seen a scum vig but I assume they're around?


-Key

[Stalfos]

Okay. I'm fairly sure on it being Theta.

Outside of the fact that she hasn't been quickhammered, she maintained a strong scumread on Radiant Moonlight but never voted them once. Even in her readslist in votes where they were her top scumread, which she instead ended by voting mastina.

although radiant moonlight is a close second cause they were the slot pushing mulch the most
which i guess could mean they are town
but that is wifom

Like this waffle just looks like distancing.

VOTE: Theta Alpine

-Key