Micro 879: The Black Site [game over]

[Auro and Shoshin]

Hi, we're town.

For now - I'm leaving my vote on duppin. I voted them early because they sheeped a vote that was shown to have bad reasoning

Uh what, is this actual a real read? Are you sincerely implying my rvs vote and the third post of the game should have good reasoning?

Oops - I was actually thinking of 21 sheeping you onto Shell, but I realised that was actually by another player.

We believe this was a townslip by our predecessor. This kind of confusion comes from town, more often than scum. We were both happy to replace into this slot as we wanted to strictly play a town game.

With this out of the way, we'll discuss the rest of the game shortly.

[Auro and Shoshin]

No u.

Absolutely No One:
Oversoul:

Absolutely no one:

Auro and Shoshin:

Hi, we're town.

For now - I'm leaving my vote on duppin. I voted them early because they sheeped a vote that was shown to have bad reasoning

Uh what, is this actual a real read? Are you sincerely implying my rvs vote and the third post of the game should have good reasoning?

Oops - I was actually thinking of 21 sheeping you onto Shell, but I realised that was actually by another player.

We believe this was a townslip by our predecessor. This kind of confusion comes from town, more often than scum. We were both happy to replace into this slot as we wanted to strictly play a town game.

With this out of the way, we'll discuss the rest of the game shortly.

[Auro and Shoshin]

As you can see, we're the opposite of an anonymous hydra:

Spoiler:

Ego

Hello!

We both townread singletonking & wanted to get that out there. What's the point of posting 178 if you townread the slot as well?

[Auro and Shoshin]

That's scum.

What exactly are you calling scummy?

[Auro and Shoshin]

I'll talk about my reads once Auro finishes reading the game & we discuss. He wants an unbiased take on the game so I'm holding back my reads until he forms his.

[Auro and Shoshin]

Spoiler: Comments as Auro read the game, to Shoshin

Shell, post 43: "The other two i'm confused as to why they were asked but i went along with them for the possibility of schiavetto having a goal with them."
Latter part feels weird and scummy
-redacted-
Okay, NMSA is a more serious scumread. From his 21-36-46, I feel he decided on slots to tr/sr first, and is making up reasons later. There's a difference between posts he quoted calling tdc out versus his reason for scumread later. Also skips stk
Townread Schiavetto! He sees about the same problem with NMSA.
Shell also a townread.
54 seems town
Scumlean on Duppin for his attack on RQS - seems like he's building what looks like a legit talking point, while preventing Schiavetto from getting townread
Voyc's 60 also seems to come from town - the same concern I had with Duppin
NMSA's 60 ("Train is town") reminds me of that conversation on confidence levels.
I love SHell's reads list in 71
Traindriver's 76 is bad. "I'm basing my thoughts on this on my prior experience with Spam. He seems entirely consistant with his town play in that game. " is also bad
Lol @ NMSA and Traindriver calling each other town, and very confident in those reads
Oversoul replaced Train; will be interesting to see his read on NMSA
Lol, Oversoul also has NMSA at near top townread. Bad!
"Also, from that game you referenced, it appears that NotMySpamAccount’s Day 1 is pretty similar to this game."

Also the same argument as TDC for the townread .Hmmmmm

@Oversoul

, can you explain the similarities between NMSA's D1 play in that game and here? Have you read a scumgame of his for comparison? Why is NMSA so strongly town?

@Duppin

, can you explain why you think Train and NMSA are town in 70?

@TDC

, you mentioned you liked TrainDriver but not Oversoul - why do you dislike Oversoul's posts? Is your scumread on NMSA purely from his not answering your questions?

Shell and Schiavetto are townreads for both heads, at least for early game. Schiavetto townread turned weak for Shoshin later in the game.
NMSA is also a townread, I'll not explain this at the moment.

Voyc is a townread for Auro, but Shoshin doesn't see it. Shoshin thinks they're awkwardly self-conscious and somewhat passive.

Rick and Morty's dissonance seems naturally town; but the timing of their replace-out feels like it's a response to our entry to the game - and this could be scum-indicative. We're unclear on the slot ATM.

Shoshin doesn't like 135 and 171.

[Auro and Shoshin]

I meant Traindriver. In that Oversoul had the same argument to strong townread NMSA as his predecessor, which was "D1 resembles the other game".

Shoshin has an accurate read rate on quite a few players, and it's conceivable that they could have repped out on that basis.

[Auro and Shoshin]

Why aren't you townreading Shell, Teacher?

[Auro and Shoshin]

VOTE: TDC

Been a bit busy, will read and post more soon.

Teacher, unsigned posts are made by both heads. Signed posts are individual.

-Auro

[Auro and Shoshin]

Shoshin said "Let's lynch TDC?" In discord, so I blind voted. We haven't discussed since. I'm happy lynching Voyc too - I think I'm wrong with one of my townreads.

NMSA is town, I'll retrieve and post what made us think so later.

-Auro

[Auro and Shoshin]

Was the replacement due to inactivity?
If NMSA requested a rep it might affect our townread, but otherwise we think he's town as well.

Is there anyone else you'd like to lynch?

-Auro

[Auro and Shoshin]

Let's Lynch Voyc?
Schiavetto seemed very town.

-Auro

[Auro and Shoshin]

Since we're townreading Spam.
Why not TDC? What are the "reasons"?

Why Spam/LUV?

-Auro

[Auro and Shoshin]

Why'd you assume that? Of course we discussed the reasons for the Spam townread. From notes:
Spam's 86 was a fluid, natural read change which very likely comes from town - we expect scum in that position to gauge for other reactions before reversing a read that way. The way he expressed it - "Crap, Shell's town" is also something we don't expect scum would say.

[Auro and Shoshin]

In addition, I looked at a scumgame of his; he seemed to justify his reads and pushes a lot more there. His behavior this game doesn't resemble that. Given a few players seem to recognize his townplay from the previous game as well, we think it points to him being town.
If he's being replaced from site flaking, that doesn't change our read of the slot.

-Auro (the previous post as well)

[Auro and Shoshin]

Go to his profile, it was one of his early Newbie games IIRC. I'm on mobile now, sorry

-Auro

[Auro and Shoshin]

What does "mostly utility" mean?
Voyc is in your top three scumreads, is it that your gut's saying he's town although you have no concrete reasons to believe it?

-Auro

[Auro and Shoshin]

Voyc, my townread on you was the shakiest. You seemed to be finding the same problems with other's (say NMSA's) posts which I did as I read through the thread, leading me to believe you were town. However, given the sparsity in that happening, this isn't a strong reason.

Your play seems passive and Shoshin found it awkward, which is is consistent with generic scum play. Can you tell us some differences from your scum meta? I haven't really checked your scumgames yet - I'm kinda busy IRL for a while.

-Auro

[Auro and Shoshin]

Oversoul, what do you make of our reasons to townread Spam? It was enough to cause me to reverse my read on him - if it doesn't convince you, can you tell me why?

-Auro

[Auro and Shoshin]

Well, 86 doesn't have the read change that you're talking about. It is just a reads list. The read change comes later in 117 and looks like something that can be faked like he is holding the door open for the opportunity to vote back on Shell.

Why so? "Crap, he's town" and then attacking him later would be very awkward.

-Auro

[Auro and Shoshin]

My #1 priority in this game at the moment is getting Oversoul to explain why TDC is town. The more Oversoul delays this, the more I'm going to believe he's being dishonest about this.

-Shoshin

[Auro and Shoshin]

VOTE: Oversoul

[Auro and Shoshin]

Don't waste an investigation on us, we're obvtown or will be very soon. Even minor research into my meta should confirm this.

-Shoshin

[Auro and Shoshin]

I don’t believe in slips but I'd think a town slip would happen less often than scum slips since town naturally hide less that scum.

The "slip" language was Auro's but the point we're making holds regardless what you call it. Singleton's confusion strongly indicates that he's town, and that played a large part in why we decided to replace his slot. Do you disagree that the confusion is towny?

-Shoshin

[Auro and Shoshin]

If you are both fully aware of your own respective metas to the point you are able to become obvtown off it, that means your meta is unreliable. Unless you sack yourself as scum repeatedly for the sake of your town meta, but if that’s the case, you would have been banned. I will only believe this statement if you’re an IC, I do not trust you.

I feel like you two are playing reserved and I’m not sure why.

Since you’re here, what do you think you’ll accomplish from voting me? What is your opinion on LUV’s catchup?

I strongly disagree that awareness of meta is sufficient to replicate or manipulate as scum. There's a whole bunch of emotional factors that make playing town/scum very different, and we all have different degrees of skill when it comes to acting & lying, regardless of awareness.

We aren't playing reserved, so I'm not sure what that even means. The game's been slow as a general matter but that's not entirely on us.

I want you to explain why you townread TDC. I think you're being dishonest about your townread on TDC, and if you truly had such a strong townread, I think you'd have no problem sharing the reasons. Withholding this kind of information in the context of a slow game that's close to deadline is extremely pro-scum from my perspective, as it doesn't help me refine my reads at all. It's like you want me to continue believing TDC is scum, which a townie who genuinely believes TDC is town wouldn't want me to do.

LUV's catchup is underwhelming, but I don't know anything about LUV as a player so I don't know what it means yet. Auro had a strong townread on Schia, so there's that, too.

-Shoshin

[Auro and Shoshin]

Why'd you scumread Spam, Oversoul?

[Auro and Shoshin]

LUV, you might want to consider voting Oversoul at this time. We're very close to deadline & need to consolidate pressure if we're going to get anywhere productive.

[Auro and Shoshin]

Teacher, your top scumread after Voyc is Oversoul. Please vote him.

[Auro and Shoshin]

We're a scumread Oversoul? Why?

[Auro and Shoshin]

I could go for Kop or A&S lynches.

You think Oversoul is town? Why?

[Auro and Shoshin]

Why are you willing to vote us but not Oversoul?

[Auro and Shoshin]

It's not pretending, TDC. We replaced into this slot because we townread our predecessor. I don't think you need to townread us for that, but it's something that both me & Auro agreed about. We think our reasoning on that front is solid -- Singleton's confusion is a behavior that I've seen town do a bit but never scum, and it makes sense in theory because scum tend to pay more attention to who the read is on so as to keep consistency whereas townies sometimes confuse players but remember behaviors because that's where the focus is. I don't see why you'd say this makes us scum? What's scummy about trying to replace town slots? Is there some reason you don't believe we townread Singleton before we replaced into the game?

[Auro and Shoshin]

We're a scumread Oversoul? Why?

Pettiness. The one thing I am playing close to my chest is somehow scummy which if you thought even an inkling about there could be you know, another reason. :shift: But, somehow you haven’t, or you’re ignoring it. But while you’re here. Read on Kop?

The last few times I've seen someone do what you're doing, they've flipped scum. I've even done it myself. Unless you're actually informed that TDC is town via your own role, I simply don't think you're being honest. And keeping your cards this close when TDC is a potential mislynch is very pro-scum (me & lmao both voiced suspicion of TDC and both of us our town -- so there's a very real chance that town TDC gets mislynched because scum would presumably hop on at end of day).

[Auro and Shoshin]

I don't understand how both of you still think Spam/lmao are scummy.

[Auro and Shoshin]

There's bits I like from R&M and bits I don't. I haven't read Kop's posts. They weren't compelling enough to capture my attention.

[Auro and Shoshin]

Don't waste an investigation on us, we're obvtown or will be very soon. Even minor research into my meta should confirm this.

-Shoshin

I was also referring to this. This is just terrible.

But while you are here, you could kindly explain why you voted me earlier.

This isn't terrible. It's me trying to optimize how players use their roles. But whatever, you just can't wrap your head around the fact that I'm obvtown as town and obvscum as scum. It's just how I am. I'm very bad at lying, period.

[Auro and Shoshin]

As for why we voted you earlier, Auro already explained that he put the vote on you because I suggested it in our discord. I don't entirely remember why but there's been a few things from you that I don't like. I'd have to go through the posts & point them out, but since I'm not pushing your lynch at the moment, it's not of much use.

[Auro and Shoshin]

Teacher thinks we're obvtown, Oversoul. And he's played with me before so he knows that what I'm saying about meta is true.

[Auro and Shoshin]

Kop could be scum. There's a good chance of that. It's not an awful lynch for D1.

[Auro and Shoshin]

How am I going to be lynched? Nobody is voting me.

You could be lynched if you're town. If you're scum, it won't happen today.

[Auro and Shoshin]

How am I going to be lynched? Nobody is voting me.

You could be lynched if you're town. If you're scum, it won't happen today.

The reason for this has been explained. You take my vote, lmao's vote, and the scum's vote, and you're basically dead. Teacher might sheep us, too, so if Teacher's town, you're doubly screwed.

[Auro and Shoshin]

I'm not that interested in testing this right now. And like I said, if you're actually scum, you're not getting lynched.

[Auro and Shoshin]

Why? You think you're getting Oversoul done? Who's gonna vote him?

Who knows? Teacher for sure. Maybe LUV. Maybe someone else. Doesn't matter, today's mostly a wash. There's not enough time to figure out an ideal lynch.

[Auro and Shoshin]

What's your read on Kop, Teacher?

[Auro and Shoshin]

VOTE: Kop

[Auro and Shoshin]

I still think TDC is scum but who knows? I'm curious to see what NSG thinks.

-Shoshin

[Auro and Shoshin]

If it's not TDC, I'd guess it's Teacher? I dunno.

-Shoshin

[Auro and Shoshin]

hey all, i'm honestly just here to collect my free victory from shoshin (and auro) carrying.

my heuristic for day 1 scumlynches in micros is that scum is almost never on the wagon or if they are it's the hammer vote. granted, i'm fairly certain that comes mostly from newbies, but i would bet that it holds true regardless. i don't actually have the hard data on this like i would for normal games, but still.

i have read very little but i'm gonna get on that now.

@shoshin

, to someone who is nearly totally ignorant, could you explain why you switched from oversoul to kop, and if you still scumread my slot?

(i'm also interested in why you think your scumgame is bad – from what i've seen it was fairly good, but this is less game related and moreso just for my own interest.)

I hate to disappoint but I'm not sure I'll be carrying anything this game. I haven't read much either, and I'd need to reread things more in-depth to really solve the game, which maybe I'll do at some point. I was hoping you'd carry after replacing in, that would be very nice. I tend to be very lazy sometimes, and especially it seems when I'm in a hydra. I think it's something about the feeling that others will do the work for me so I don't have to.

I never really scumread your slot. The truth is that I secretly scumread Kop the whole time (and especially R&M -- Auro can confirm our discussions about this in discord) and was always planning to switch my vote there at the end.

My main point in voting Oversoul was to get an explanation on town TDC (he left the game before explaining, which is super annoying). I wanted to know if it was role related or behavioral, and if the latter, why. Clearing up reads strong divergences (strongest town to strongest scum) is very important to me. In past games, I've had it turn out that the scumread was in fact scum, but in others it turns out my read was wrong, and the clarification was enough to then completely solve the game with that new insight.

I also thought a sole wagon on Kop would be very boring, and voting Oversoul was an interesting way to test alignments across the board. I preferred Oversoul to TDC because I suspected TDC, and I thought a counter wagon on scum wouldn't be as interesting as a counter wagon on town. And as I said yesterday, I didn't think scum were a viable counter wagon to Kop because scum would simply vote one of the two at that point, defeating the purpose of the test. I think we got some possibly-useful reactions on this front -- notably the fact that LUV didn't jump on the Oversoul wagon when he could have made that lynch much more viable. I'm not sure what it means yet but it's something to think about.

There's another aspect to this as well but I'll keep that part to myself. It's just some underlying stuff about what I was doing in terms of sorting TDC.

I disagree that my scum game is good -- I have a 0% win rate after all -- but if you think it's good, that's nice to know. I also just hate playing scum and never want to do it, and I'd only ever replace into slots that I was very confident are town. I hope you at least believe me on that, even if you think my scum game is good.

-Shoshin

[Auro and Shoshin]

@shos, what’s your history reading saudade? I have a feeling they were in Rick and Mortg, which also made me question 14 from Luv’s slot. Only other note of interest from p1 is TDC and r+M RVS crossvoting.

I get the feeling like there are multiple other private threads going on here. Can anyone share the original game advert? Is it possible there is multiball with 2 2-person teams unaware of the other and only a 5 member town? Like at this point I believe I have seen what would be a mason claim AND another sign of a separate thread. I’m not going to elaborate who or where for now, at least until I have a better feel for the setup.

I have a 100% read accuracy on Saudade so far in maybe three or four games? Not sure why this would be relevant to anything. I never would guess R&M included him.

I have no idea what you're talking about with respect to multiball. This sounds like the type of distraction that scum would come up with to lead mislynches.

@A+S, what are your thoughts on LUV, atm?
Still townreading the slot or?

I think Auro townread the slot. Me personally, I dunno. He wrote a massive wall that I need to read at some point, but it's very overwhelming at the moment. The fact he didn't jump on Oversoul, though. That seems to indicate town?

-Shoshin

[Auro and Shoshin]

Not sure the point of these questions, NSG. But since I'm glad you're here to solve the game, here's some answers:

Spoiler:

When I say "divergence," I just mean a disagreement about alignment. If your strongest townread is my strongest scumread, that's a "strong divergence."

When I say "the scumread was in fact scum," I'm referring to games where I scumread scum who other people listed as a top townread. This happens surprisingly often.

When I say "clarification," I was looking for Oversoul to explain why TDC was town so that I could determine whether my read was wrong. I was mostly trying to figure out whether I was missing something obvious about TDC that made him town. If I learn that one of my reads is wrong, it sometimes leads to a massive recalibration of all my reads, not just the read I was wrong about.

If you're concerned at all that we're scum, I'll also just note that Auro would be leading this slot if it were scum, not me.

I just saw you scumread TDC. I agree with your thoughts. Have you looked at anyone else / do you have any townreads?

[Auro and Shoshin]

I've not been able to invest in this game due to being busy RL.

Shoshin and I both thought TDC had scum equity in the previous day.
The scumflip is consistent with scum!TDC; the NK is also consistent with scum!TDC (as lmao was scumreading him).

NSG is town simply from the fact that she'd NK us if she was the remaining scum.

I'm happy just lynching TDC for now.

-Auro

[Auro and Shoshin]

i would appreciate if auro would clarify / back up the secret scumread on kop and plan to switch there in the end.

I don't think we explicitly discussed a secret scumread and plan to switch there. At one point when Kop had one vote on him, I said this to Shoshin:
"Impression on Kop, who replaced Rick and Morty I think?
Wait, I'll tell mine first
I don't like Kop's posts
Feels like he's forcing content
Kop doesn't even have real reads
Just questions about whether someone's town or scum for something they did"

And Shoshin responded saying "Yeah true, could go for a Kop lynch". This didn't reflect in our posts at the time (I believe Shoshin was posting, not me), so what she said is true in a sense.

-Auro

[Auro and Shoshin]

There was also the earlier discussions where I said R&M/TDC as scum. My main focus was TDC though.

-Shoshin

[Auro and Shoshin]

Also, people going on about how they already solved the game yesterday, because they are that good, really drains my motivation to put more effort into this. If you are really such legends I'm sure you are going to find the last scum just fine without me

Who was doing this? Why assume these people are town?

[Auro and Shoshin]

I'll hammer if Shoshin approves.

[Auro and Shoshin]

TDC, do you think NSG is scum?

[Auro and Shoshin]

Nobody hammer yet please. We have a lot of time until deadline & I'd like to use it.

-Shoshin

[Auro and Shoshin]

It's very unlikely that NSG's scum. My only paranoia about her is how blatantly she's been pocketing me. But it's not worth considering at this point in the game. If we get to LYLO and she's still alive, then maybe. We'll see.

TDC, if you assume we're both town, who are the scum?

-Shoshin

[Auro and Shoshin]

I'd prefer if someone removes their vote from TDC for the moment so that we can continue discussing without the threat of a hammer.

-Shoshin

[Auro and Shoshin]

Hey NSG, what're your thoughts on Teacher, Voyc, and Shell?

[Auro and Shoshin]

I'm back guys. Probably not at the best time but I'm back.

VC 1.11

Kop (3): NotMySpamAccount, Oversoul, Voyc
NotMySpamAccount (2): shEll, TDC
duppin (1): Schiavetto
Oversoul (1): Kop
Voyc (1): teacher

Not voting (1): Auro and Shoshin

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends in (expired on 2019-07-10 13:30:00).

VOTE: Kop
I don't like this lynch over Spam but we literally have 4 HOURS left with nobody at L-1.

@Kop self hammer. Unless everyone has magically showed up with another plan by the time you get on. Which I doubt will happen. Any lynch > no lynch.

This post gives me the vibe of scum trying to anti-associate with a partner. I'm also a bit worried about Shell because he was so wrong about Spam, absurdly so. I thought we had already cleared up any concerns about Spam at this point in the game, yet Shell still pushes for Spam over Kop? Very concerning.

TDC, assuming that me & NSG are town, and knowing that Spam was town, and that Kop was scum, how can you say Shell's strong town? Please explain that read in detail.

-Shoshin

[Auro and Shoshin]

VOTE: nmsa

I’m around. I had PMed the mod about deadline and asked in thread following the schia replacement. I’d rather flashwagon this if we can but able to go anywhere before deadline.

This vote from Teacher is awful, though. Voting Spam right after Shell's. Teacher, what the were you thinking? Makes me think Teacher over TDC as scum.

[Auro and Shoshin]

So, current readslist:
Schia, A+S
Schell, TDC
Spam, Kop
Oversoul
Voyc

It just seems strange that Teacher would vote for Spam over Kop when he seems to read them about the same. Plus he knows that we strongly townread Spam and didn't want that slot lynched.

I just noticed that we weren't as clear about townreading Spam as I thought we had been. It was a main point of discussion in discord but I guess we didn't post about it as much as I thought. I think if Teacher had behaved as he had while knowing that we strongly townread Spam, then I'd be much more inclined to lynch him today over TDC. As is, I'm not sure. Will discuss with Auro plus anyone else who is around.

[Auro and Shoshin]

Extremely busy till Sunday - I'll VLA till then, Shoshin may post

-Auro

[Auro and Shoshin]

You think TDC is town, Teacher? Please explain.

[Auro and Shoshin]

I find LUV scummier. My list rn:
Me
NSG
Voyc
She’ll
You TDC
luV

Why are we as scummy as TDC?

[Auro and Shoshin]

VOTE: TDC

[Auro and Shoshin]

Voyc, what're your reads?

[Auro and Shoshin]

I have an idea about who I want to lynch but we'll see what everyone else says plus Auro first.

[Auro and Shoshin]

I want to lynch teacher into LUV. I think shEll and Voyc are both town.

-Auro

[Auro and Shoshin]

Let's do a massclaim. Popcorn? We can start.

Teacher, what's your read on us (apart from the question)? Can you explain your progression on us?

Shoshin would like to know what you gain from the questions to her.

-Auro

[Auro and Shoshin]

VT.
{Teacher, shELL, LUV, Voyc} is our preferred order.
Popcorn to Teacher.

-Auro

[Auro and Shoshin]

But you've been far less active than I'd expect. I view not answering questions as NAI with you, but see it as perhaps sticking to identifiable meta things you generally do. I agree w/ your townblock, but think lynching me today would be the right thing for scum you to do to push LUV tomorrow.

I've been very busy in recent days.
You did have us at the top of your reads list in 216 - why?
What I'm concerned about is how we we went from there to the bottom now.

What are your thoughts on Shell?

-Auro

[Auro and Shoshin]

Both me and Shoshin are the most suspicious of your slot - I'd be happier with you going last if you had crumbed your role.
If not, can you crumb it somehow now?

-Auro

[Auro and Shoshin]

Cool, you can go last then.
@LUV: Shoshin and I are stuck at the lynch order to follow. We're conflicted about multiple slots - in that we see town-indicative and scum-indicative stuff.
Since there's one scum remaining, I think a massclaim would help give us more information, and if we have a mechanical inno or two it'll help a lot in deciding a lynch order.

Pedit: Don't activity read Shoshin in this game. This hydra is going to have me largely posting, with her conveying thoughts in the background. That she did post at all is town-indicative IMO; if we repped in to a scumslot it would've been exclusively me posting, with 0 inputs from Shoshin - thus having me have to fake her thoughts. Her lack of posting doesn't have to do with IRL reasons, just the dynamic of the hydra.


-Auro

[Auro and Shoshin]

Primarily the Kop associations at the end of D1.
Given we're conflicted about every other slot (and Shoshin says she sees little towntells from you as well) I think I'll wait for the claims to finish, then re-read the game and see where we get.

-Auro

[Auro and Shoshin]

Yes, because the author of 419 was... NSG? You're telling me you'd independently not be scared of NSG at all as scum?
Although yes, you are correct that if you were going to kill NSG for being NSG, you would've just done that N1, since that's when the replacement happened.

If you're looking at 295, the only slot not in lmao's town bucket apart from me was LUV. Hmm.

-Auro

[Auro and Shoshin]

I'd like to clarify that I never said I was most suspicious of Teacher. But I understand why Auro would say that. I was actually pointing out a couple of towny aspects of Teacher's play that are unique to him. I also pointed out the fact that he strongly acted against lynching Kop on D1 in ways that are scummy.

Why is Shoshin not coming in here, btw. Clearly she is keeping up enough to talk w you - or at least you’re giving that impression. My bottom line is that I have played w her four times that I recall - twice with her as a leading poster, and twice with her taking a back seat to the game. Twice with her as town, and twice as 3P or scum. The roles go w the activity.

I get more than others that real life is a thing and should be respected. But I also think there is a WIM that doesn’t let real life get in the way sometimes, and is all-to-willing to let it get in the way others. I do activity read Sho to a certain extent, and part of why you have slipped down is the lack of it, whether or not you think that’s fair.

It's untrue that I was leading poster in the first game you played with me. I barely even looked at the game there, and spent most of it saying I would eventually reread & solve. Irrelephant eventually jumped the gun at LYLO instead of waiting for me, to give you a sense of how inactive I was. Think of this game like that one.

The real reason I'm inactive is because I don't have much interest in the game, because Auro's been way less active than he was supposed to be (and this hydra was for his sake, not the game itself), and because logging into this hydra account is annoying.

[Auro and Shoshin]

My greatest concern is and has been Shell, in case this wasn't obvious or stated yet.

[Auro and Shoshin]

Re the kop associations: do I really kill the author of 419 over voyc (who was also fairly Utr) or Schell (same, other than you) last night? Likewise, do I kill lmao (Who I know and townreads me in 295 and 296 over Oversoul, who was spewed town by being the counterwagon and is being replaced by known scumhunter NSG?

It feels like your analysis of me ended D1 and hasn’t taken further developments - any nk, being a leading poster D2 and 3 so far - into account.

I've been asking the question of why lmao & NSG were killed. It seems fairly obvious why NSG, her slot was obvtown and even when she isn't she's a top priority for scum to eliminate. But lmao? Why would anyone in this list kill lmao?

[Auro and Shoshin]

It's untrue that I was leading poster in the first game you played with me.

Not the, a. You posts 38 times in the first to tell if days, Nd enough content for people to confidently meta read you by post 100. You were th gravitational center of the game. Like elephants early vote come not because you said you were going to read up, but because you said I was definitely scum Nd you wanted to read to find my partner.

This isn't true. Again, you have this strange faulty memory with respect to that game. It's probably because you were mislyched and getting mislynched sucks. It's like you've completely forgotten the fact that I was the only player that game who kept saying you were town for the entire game prior to LYLO (and remember, that's no small thing when everyone else in that game except me called you scum from D1 to the end). And you've forgotten the fact that I came into LYLO repeatedly saying that I needed time to solve the game, that I needed to read up things, etc. And then, as I was going through the game in my typical fashion, I was highlighting posts from you that pinged me. That happened, yes. But at no point did I say "Teacher's scum, end of discussion." That's just untrue. If you look at how I approach other games in similar situations, I do the same thing. I quote posts from different players but until I make a final decision, you don't who know who I'm voting. Another example: this game. I've pointed out scummy things from you, Shell, Voyc, and LUV. But do you know who I plan to vote for between you? No, you don't. Pointing out scummy things that a player did isn't the same as saying that player is scum who needs to be lynched. It's just part of the process of figuring out where I want to lynch.

I appreciate your responding. But I don’t appreciate both your and auro missing the thrust of my question. Why was I lower than LuV (you guy are supposedly talking about all slots, so you must know the reasons). Why did you hammer with multiple questions pending yesterday? Why did you hammer D1 after functionally ignoring the wagon (for “secret” reasons) rather than allow the person who had claimed intent? What are my “secret” unique towntells you notably refer to but never disclose?

Your questions don't go anywhere useful. I think we've been pretty clear about the fact that you defended Kop whereas LUV didn't. What are you hoping to learn about our alignment from this question that you don't already know from our posting?

You ask why I hammered with multiple questions pending? Why is this even a question from you? You know I don't answer questions, yet somehow you think it's relevant to my alignment? Please explain the intent behind this behavior.

I don't see how any of your questions are helpful to sorting alignments. I ignore them because they're bad questions. And I'm going to keep ignoring all these dumb questions. You can assume if I question hasn't been answered the first time you ask, I thought it was a bad question. The fact that you keep asking these bad questions is very concerning to me. Please explain why these questions are so important that you feel the need to keep asking them. Townies usually drop pointless questions; scum don't.

[Auro and Shoshin]

ARRRGGGH.

First, youre entitled to your own opinions, as I am entitled to mine. But you are not entitled to your own facts. Every factual statement I made about 2042 was true.

• "You posts 38 times in the first to tell if days [two real life days]": Yep.
  
• "enough content for people to confidently meta read you by post 100.": Yep.
  
• "you said I was definitely scum Nd you wanted to read to find my partner.": Yep.
  
• "elephants early vote come . . .because you said I was definitely scum": Yep.

So take your faulty memory and shove it. We have different perspectives on the same game. I remember it just fine, and no, you were not the only player to TR me.
Which brings me to the second point:

Your version of facts is simply wrong. You said I was a leading poster & gravitation center, and that's simply untrue. These are the facts:

Spoiler:

1. I had the least number of posts of any townie alive in LYLO. I also had the least number of posts of any townie after D1. And I was prodded multiple times because I didn't post at all for large periods of time. I frankly think it's absurd that you'd call me a "leading poster in the game" and "gravitational center" based on the first 48 hours of the game while ignoring everything that happened after that. And given that we're past D1 in this game, the relevant context for comparison is what happened after D1, not what I did in the first 48 hours of the game. I also find the number of posts you cite, 38, indicative of low activity for me. I had roughly three times that number of posts in Mini 2080 in the first 24 hours, for example.

2. You said I posted enough content to be meta read. Okay, go back & tell me where you see enough content in the game to meta read me, because I don't see it. I'd argue that I've posted more meaningful content in this game than Mini 2042. It certainly feels like I've been more engaged here than I ever was there. Tellingly, multiple players expressly called me out for low activity/content in Mini 2042, and you ironically scumread me for most of the game, which contradicts your claim about "enough content to confidently meta read."

3. You say I wasn't the only player to townread you. Who else townread you? Xwing/Krazy don't count because they were scum.

4. Your analysis of LYLO ignores virtually every relevant fact. Let's start with the specific words I wrote in the post you cite: "It's very unlikely that Krazy's scum. So I guess it's teacher. But I need to finish rereading before voting, and I need to sort teacher's partner. Associations exist for both Irrel and xwing at this point, so it's a tough decision."

I didn't use the word "definitely" anywhere. I didn't even say Krazy was "definitely" town, and my entire read on you at this point was based on my read of Krazy. The words I used were "I guess it's Teacher." Do you know what "I guess" means? It means "not definitely." I was qualifying my read on you with as low confidence as possible, a slight step up from saying "it could be Teacher," which means nothing.

It was also anything but "end of discussion" about you: My next words, "But I need to finish rereading before voting," were very clear about the fact that nothing was settled. It's especially telling in context: I started LYLO with you as town, then called you scum (post 934), then called you town (post 935), then called you scum again. I had a similar back-and-forth about every player in LYLO, not just you. I called xwing scum, then called him town, then called him scum again. I called Irrel town, then scum, then town. I called Krazy scum, then town, then scum, then town. My reads were in flux, often changing. If I had any degree of confidence, I would have voted. But instead, I kept saying I needed more time.

Notably, I followed this post up by continuing to engage with you about the game (this isn't something I do to someone I believe is "definitely" scum), and I expressly said I would decide things after Thanksgiving (something I never had a chance to do because of Irrelephant).

You refer to me looking for your partner as meaning you were "definitely" scum, but that's not what it means to look for a scumteam. Finding a scumteam is how I sort YOUR alignment, because if I don't feel comfortable calling the entire team as you/xwing or you/Irrel, then I'm not going to vote you, period. I'm looking for both scum, not just one. This applies in all my games, and you see it even on D1, though the logic applies doubly at LYLO. It's how I sort alignments, not an indication that you were solved already.

You also ignore all my posts mentioning over & over that I haven't solved the game and still need to keep rereading and thinking. I specifically asked for meta to read up on from everyone. In 956, I said I'd "explain" my reads when I figured them out, but I never explained anything, meaning they weren't figured out yet. In 1006, I once again state: "Don't have time atm to do the in-depth reading and thinking I want to do." I kept repeating that I needed time to solve the game. How is this indicative that you were "definitely" scum & that discussion was over?

You say Irrelephant voted you because of me. Irrelephant voted you because he thought you were scum, and he thought that since D1, way before anything I said and in spite of what I said earlier in the game. He gave a bunch of his own reasons to vote you, and acknowledged openly that he had no idea why I townread Krazy or why I wasn't talking about my reasoning. Irrelephant just misplayed the LYLO by not waiting for confirmed town to decide on the vote, and that's not my fault when I kept saying I needed more time, that's on Irrel.

For a point of comparison on what it looks like when I'm confident about a read at LYLO, look at my other LYLO games. I consider all possibilities, but once I'm certain about a read, I make that very clear. In Nomination Mafia, as an example, I forced a 1v1 with scum at LYLO who I had previously been calling "locktown." Yes, I voted someone I had called "locktown." Auro was there, so he can confirm. Reads at LYLO aren't settled until you vote, and that's especially the case when I'm repeatedly telling you that I need more time to reread and solve.

My questions are useful. To me. I dont give a rat's ass whether you think they are useful or not - we clearly approach and think about the game in quite different ways. Have the respect for another player -- in fact two other players, since Voyc asked them too -- to answer them. I think its more that people are more willing to put up with your bullshit disrespectful fancypants play and drop it than I am

I find it very telling when players continue to pursue pointless questions. I've caught scum this way quite often so I'll continue to use this tactic in games. It's not a matter of respect, it's a matter of testing behaviors, which is what every townie should be doing.

I'd like to know how your questions to me are useful to sorting me?

[Auro and Shoshin]

've pointed out scummy things from you, Shell, Voyc, and LUV.

Um.... False. I just Iso'ed you and controlled F. Youve pushed me and, to a lesser extent Shell. You have not pointed out a single scummy thing from LuV at all. For Voyc, the only negative comment is in 195, where Sho calls them self-conscious and passive: atmospherics, not specific things.

Hmm, maybe. It's hard to remember the difference between what's been posted and what's been discussed in hydra discord. This is not something I'm used to keeping track of.

Does scum typically hard defend their partner? Or, since you read my scum games for 2042, do I as scum do so?

Yes, scum defend their partners. Not always, but often. The problem is that sometimes townies do, and it often comes down to evaluating the player's competence. Why were you so actively trying to avoid Kop lynch? I don't recall you explaining this, but if you did, please point me to the post.

[Auro and Shoshin]

Waiting for shEll's replacement is going to take time.
This is pre LyLo. The game's stalling a lot. It's frustrating without any direction.
Please just continue the claims. LUV, go ahead!

-Auro

[Auro and Shoshin]

Cool, claim pls.
pisskop -> teacher -> Voyc.

[Auro and Shoshin]

Fish, claim.
Voyc, unless you crumbed your role, next.
Teacher, Voyc also had reasons to "claim last" and I suspect you more than him so...

-Auro

[Auro and Shoshin]

Fish, do you keep track of your winrate on your main?

-Auro

[Auro and Shoshin]

Claim.
"Haha, I didn't read my PM, I might rep in as an alt" and repping in on an alt is scummy.

Also, you're not getting me roped.

-Auro

[Auro and Shoshin]

Okay.

Voyc, crumbed? If not, claim.

-Auro

[Auro and Shoshin]

Shoshin and I have serious concerns about Teacher's play.

1.

Why

did teacher neighborize Voyc and Shell? NSG/Oversoul/lmao were

all

better targets to help gamesolve, if not my slot. Voyc was also apparently his top scumread on D1. So... wut? Town neighborizers would neighbor strong townslots to work with; this looks a lot more like scum finding opportunities to pocket.
2. Teacher's claim in no way "confirms" him as town. In a world with scum!teacher, it's {1Encryptor+1Neighborizer} vs {1 N2 traffic cop + 1 Encryptor + 6 VT}. Sounds plausible.
3. Teacher brought up multiball, in a micro game. Wut?

VOTE: Teacher

-Auro

[Auro and Shoshin]

I assume Voyc claimed to you in your neighborhood before you said anything about multiball?

[Auro and Shoshin]

GG!