Micro 988: 09:12 [Game Over]

[tris]

hi
UNVOTE:

[tris]

wow, kyoko is hard to parse

[tris]

As to ythan i think he's asking a lot of questions but i don't see the thought process behind them or that they're leading anywhere (as they wouldn't, if he were scum). My read may change if that post changes. I also dislike post 38. It very clearly tries to align him in support of you but it doesn't really accomplish anything or add to the conversation - he's just posturing here.

i disagree with this

[tris]

As to ythan i think he's asking a lot of questions but i don't see the thought process behind them or that they're leading anywhere (as they wouldn't, if he were scum). My read may change if that post changes. I also dislike post 38. It very clearly tries to align him in support of you but it doesn't really accomplish anything or add to the conversation - he's just posturing here.

i disagree with this

actually, maybe i see what you're saying with respect to page 1 at least.

[tris]

Kyoko's posts feel like someone who is trying so desperately to have a scum read with the knowledge that everyone they sr is town. A red flip on the slot would also possibly clear horsewoman assuming they aren't doing some wacko SvS thearer.

The first part of this is a good read. You say I'm trying hard to make arguments going and you think that can be scummy and a tell that I'm informed.

The second part of this isn't a good read at all since it's an "association read". It's a fallacy to use "my imaginary flip" to justify your vote on me this early in the day and feels fake.

Now the question is, what do you think about "horsewoman" without that association read and based on their own content?

What you are engaging is called the fallacy fallacy in which instead of refuting an argument or idea you simply say it has a fallacy and pretend that refutes it. It is possible and not uncommon to come to a correct conclusion using a fallacy. I did not use a fallacy to justify my vote.

In addition you are misrepresenting the intent of my vote. The first half which you agreed is a good read is why I am voting you. The second half is an observation that while horsewoman is not very townish it seems unlikely that she would be scum partners with you barring SvS theater. I am voting you because I strongly believe that you are scum and your defensive, misrepresentative, and deflective reply only makes me more confident in this read.

I didn't refute the idea cause it can't be refuted. I was indeed poking multiple people and pushing arguments around. It's on rest of town to figure out if it was from town me or scum me.

And I didn't commit a fallacy fallacy. I didn't say since your read is bad it's wrong. I know it's wrong - but that's irrelevant since the rest of town can't know it. But that doesn't make such a read not bad. What I said was for this reason that If you're town, your confidence is misplaced so I hope you will not base the rest of your today's reads based on an assumption that I will flip red cause that will be a waste of time.

wtf is this post?

[tris]

Kyoko's posts feel like someone who is trying so desperately to have a scum read with the knowledge that everyone they sr is town. A red flip on the slot would also possibly clear horsewoman assuming they aren't doing some wacko SvS thearer.

The first part of this is a good read. You say I'm trying hard to make arguments going and you think that can be scummy and a tell that I'm informed.

The second part of this isn't a good read at all since it's an "association read". It's a fallacy to use "my imaginary flip" to justify your vote on me this early in the day and feels fake.

Now the question is, what do you think about "horsewoman" without that association read and based on their own content?

What you are engaging is called the fallacy fallacy in which instead of refuting an argument or idea you simply say it has a fallacy and pretend that refutes it. It is possible and not uncommon to come to a correct conclusion using a fallacy. I did not use a fallacy to justify my vote.

In addition you are misrepresenting the intent of my vote. The first half which you agreed is a good read is why I am voting you. The second half is an observation that while horsewoman is not very townish it seems unlikely that she would be scum partners with you barring SvS theater. I am voting you because I strongly believe that you are scum and your defensive, misrepresentative, and deflective reply only makes me more confident in this read.

I didn't refute the idea cause it can't be refuted. I was indeed poking multiple people and pushing arguments around. It's on rest of town to figure out if it was from town me or scum me.

And I didn't commit a fallacy fallacy. I didn't say since your read is bad it's wrong. I know it's wrong - but that's irrelevant since the rest of town can't know it. But that doesn't make such a read not bad. What I said was for this reason that If you're town, your confidence is misplaced so I hope you will not base the rest of your today's reads based on an assumption that I will flip red cause that will be a waste of time.

wtf is this post?

wtf is this post asking wtf is my post?

the first paragraph is missing the point (as i see it at least). i think he was scumreading you because of how you would qualify a lot of your reads with statements about how maybe they're actually town. not that you were pushing a bunch of people. and then the statement about how it's up to the town to figure out if you are town or not is very vacuous. a lot of your statements seem to not actually say much.

and, then i just had a hard time processing the rest of it.

i'm not scumreading you ftr. you have an unusual way of posting and i'll need to spend more time figuring you out.

(i am currently at the end of page 6)

[tris]

Spoiler:

Kyoko's posts feel like someone who is trying so desperately to have a scum read with the knowledge that everyone they sr is town. A red flip on the slot would also possibly clear horsewoman assuming they aren't doing some wacko SvS thearer.

The first part of this is a good read. You say I'm trying hard to make arguments going and you think that can be scummy and a tell that I'm informed.

The second part of this isn't a good read at all since it's an "association read". It's a fallacy to use "my imaginary flip" to justify your vote on me this early in the day and feels fake.

Now the question is, what do you think about "horsewoman" without that association read and based on their own content?

What you are engaging is called the fallacy fallacy in which instead of refuting an argument or idea you simply say it has a fallacy and pretend that refutes it. It is possible and not uncommon to come to a correct conclusion using a fallacy. I did not use a fallacy to justify my vote.

In addition you are misrepresenting the intent of my vote. The first half which you agreed is a good read is why I am voting you. The second half is an observation that while horsewoman is not very townish it seems unlikely that she would be scum partners with you barring SvS theater. I am voting you because I strongly believe that you are scum and your defensive, misrepresentative, and deflective reply only makes me more confident in this read.

I didn't refute the idea cause it can't be refuted. I was indeed poking multiple people and pushing arguments around. It's on rest of town to figure out if it was from town me or scum me.

And I didn't commit a fallacy fallacy. I didn't say since your read is bad it's wrong. I know it's wrong - but that's irrelevant since the rest of town can't know it. But that doesn't make such a read not bad. What I said was for this reason that If you're town, your confidence is misplaced so I hope you will not base the rest of your today's reads based on an assumption that I will flip red cause that will be a waste of time.

wtf is this post?

wtf is this post asking wtf is my post?

the first paragraph is missing the point (as i see it at least). i think he was scumreading you because of how you would qualify a lot of your reads with statements about how maybe they're actually town. not that you were pushing a bunch of people. and then the statement about how it's up to the town to figure out if you are town or not is very vacuous. a lot of your statements seem to not actually say much.

and, then i just had a hard time processing the rest of it.

i'm not scumreading you ftr. you have an unusual way of posting and i'll need to spend more time figuring you out.

(i am currently at the end of page 6)

Aren't you saying the same thing? That I was bouncing on multiple people and stating what I like and don't like at the very start of game? I did that to start actual alignment indicative arguments.

He was saying I used a fallacy fallacy to refute his reasoning. I said I didn't even try to refute his reasoning as it's true. I was exactly doing that and it's on the rest of town to figure out my intentions from doing it.

ok

and, ok i should do better with the big quote trees

pedit: yeah ok, i follow you. it seems like often when you explain yourself further, i start to see where you're coming from better.

[tris]

it's

almost

after midnight. i will finish my catchup tomorrow.

having gotten as far as 189. i am inclined to scumread horsewoman at this point because there were some posts early on that seemed off to me even before i read other people saying similar things. but, i'll need to go back and check. my gut tells me that ythan is town. i think there was some post that i melded with a little.

[tris]

Hello Tris my pronouns are they/them and I will quote this hell pyramid remorselessly

oh my god i'm so sorry. i know that, and i somehow messed it up.

[tris]

hi
UNVOTE:

hi

[tris]

Like here he is calling ythan's posts 'gut' townie and I find the placing of the word 'gut' to be artificially put there.

lol

[tris]

I've been liking the points you're making while disliking the way you're making them

sounds like an issue with playstyle

[tris]

page 8 is horrible.

elaborate?

[tris]

initial impressions:

Datisi and Kyoko are town, and these are my only solid reads. the others will need rereading to verify if they make sense.

Ythan town
bugspray maybe town
slime i want to check what gamma was saying about meta
gimli bothers me
horsewoman scum

[tris]

slime i want to check what gamma was saying about meta

ok, i don't get it. i'm not seeing how they're differing from 977.

[tris]

So, page 1 ythan horsewoman interactions i disliked in reverse actually.

17 is a weird question. that assumption is an obvious one to make, and accurate if by random she means non-serious joke vote which is what i interpreted horsewoman as meaning. that doesn't contradict datisi saying it was not random because that was saying there was a reason for the vote.

and then 19 i don't like because i don't see horsewoman as deflecting there. she's trying to illustrate what she means by using the example of ythan thinking the same thing.

and, i think this is part of why i didn't like gimli because his initial reason for scumreading horsewoman came from page 1.

[tris]

Hammer this trash.

i don't know where the votes are right now, but i assume you're saying to hammer slime? i'd prefer to continue to form my reads, and also, i don't feel like yeeting slime

[tris]

i'd also prefer if others didn't

[tris]

oh yes, 37 is where i first started to dislike horsewoman.

[tris]

52 added to it. i don't like how horsewoman is turning odd usage of words into a reason to scumread. it seems very unlikely to me that kyoko made made up her explanations after the fact. it seems like it was all intended from the start. and, i don't like how she reacts to ythan's push on her here.

[tris]

why is slime scum

[tris]

oh yeah, i agree that the gimli vote is bad as well

[tris]

and then there's of course the weird interpretation of bugspray setting up a vote on her, although i'm not sure if this part actually indicates scum.

[tris]

why is slime scum

Slime outright refuses to try finding scum

they seem to think my slot is scum.

[tris]

Bugsprays read on ythan is about where im at too though atm

You're gonna need to elaborate if this is legit.

I initially read you as scummy because your posts dont lead anywhere. You are asking questions and looking busy but youre not doing anything more. But some people play that way.

what led to this moderation?

[tris]

what do you think of slime in this game?

viewtopic.php?t=84839&f=83&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

[tris]

i disagree that meta is trash. if you're scumreading someone for behavior they do as town, doesn't that indicate that the scumread is wrong? or, there'd have to be something about the behavior that's different this time.

it's really only the start of that game that i'm basing off of. they started out fluffy.
this post in particular is reminiscent of when they called this game still in RVS

Mate, we are 10 pages into the game.
Do you really think I would have reads so soon?
~Rainbow Slime

and, then they do start to have reads, but state them very bluntly, like in this game.

[tris]

i'm suddenly reminded of a game where i was scum, where a trolly player and gamma were the two main wagons on day one, and they were both town. not that history has to repeat itself. i'm just reminded of it.

[tris]

Black is much better in creating cases that I am. There is no point in me talking about below-average opening of Gamma, the fact that his ISO contains scumreading without pushing and in overal not very deep analysis or his horrible push to our slot. I will mention it to Black and hopefully he can make a good case from it resulting into people casting VOTE: Gamma.
~Victor Hugo slime

is this not an explanation of a gamma read? (not trying to use this as an example of town)

[tris]

@slimes

what do you think of my slot now that i'm in it?
what do you think of horsewoman?

[tris]

i'm gonna VOTE: horsewoman

[tris]

Black is much better in creating cases that I am. There is no point in me talking about below-average opening of Gamma, the fact that his ISO contains scumreading without pushing and in overal not very deep analysis or his horrible push to our slot. I will mention it to Black and hopefully he can make a good case from it resulting into people casting VOTE: Gamma.
~Victor Hugo slime

is this not an explanation of a gamma read? (not trying to use this as an example of town)

Speaking from experience gamma kinda just always plays like this, so it's pretty easy to call that slot generally bad without showing scummy intent. It feels like a very lazy "fine here's a scumread" deflection

fair

[tris]

Tris it almost feels like you're going out of your way to find reasons to NOT scumread slime collective - so I ask again what has townpinged you from that slot?

nothing has townpinged me, i just want to make sure they're actually scum. i want to watch them some more.
although, maybe the fact that they are so nonchalant about getting yeeted is town indicative

[tris]

not hammering is not derailing. and, i have asked some questions to try to spur some content from them. i think that just telling them to make content isn't going to work, so i asked them some specific questions.

[tris]

are you pocketing me lol?

[tris]

are the people voting you misguided or malicious?

[tris]

Datisi and Kyoko are town, and these are my only solid reads.

i am interested in hearing the tl;dr behind this

for you, 45 190 259 365 367 in particular gave me townvibes. generally, you look like you're thinking genuinely.

with kyoko, once i've dug in to understand what she's saying, she has logic. maybe it's not totally unfakable logic, but i'm leaning town. i hope to solidify my read further as the game develops.

not hammering is not derailing. and, i have asked some questions to try to spur some content from them. i think that just telling them to make content isn't going to work, so i asked them some specific questions.

I mean your pre-replacement would have kept the pressure on, it at least looked like they were willing to hammer. You seem to be more interested pushing elsewhere. The only reason I'm pushing you on this is because I think you are a swing vote which can make or break this wagon - do you really see horsewoman as more scummy than slime?

as of now, i do.

[tris]

I think if that was really Victor Hugo he would probably actually be pretty good at making cases.

And of course nobody gets the reference.
~batslime

wait how many people are on your acc

victor hugo, black and batslime?

i think the answer is actually one

i'm gonna VOTE: horsewoman

This vote happened too late.

I mean for tris

Tris was making cases about horsewoman and put them as their solo scumread and were questioning others to talk about horsewoman. But this vote came later than all those

that's because i wanted to read horsewoman's iso before i placed a vote on her. what do you mean by too late? do you think it's scummy that i did that?

@slimes

what do you think of my slot now that i'm in it?

That mod accidentally sent your wrong, green, PM.
UNVOTE:
~batslime

are you pocketing me lol?

This interaction is interesting. I just can't see two towns having this conversation. Slime has been scum reading gamma for as their only read and back off the moment their replacement defends them and tris distance themselves from this switch when in the same page they were defending the slot with no base.

Getting extreme Scum vibes from this interaction

i knew someone would find that interaction scummy.

[tris]

i concur with kyoko that i want horsewoman to react to my pushing on her.

[tris]

ythan, do you have anything to say about 392?

[tris]

Let me get this out of the way.

yeah, kyoko's posting is very dumb

is it scum? probably not, it's a mildly town thing to do to get the game out of RVS and create content, even if that content is very dumb

i apologise if that looked like a personal attack. i don't even think your posts came from a place of being dumb, i think you were just grasping for something to move out of RVS with. which as i said is a good and mildly town thing to do.

If horsewoman doesn't think kyoko's posting is even dumb to begin with, then she has no reason to say 'yeah kyoko's posting is very dumb'. the wording doesn't help a different interpretation other than she is making up things on the fly to sound solvey.

I can't grasp anything out of kyoko's arguments on page 2 that's AI either way and datisi's #45 resonate with me in that aspect.

(bbiab)

the posts being dumb is not the same as the post coming from a place of the person who made them being dumb, so i don't think there's a contradiction here. this plus not seeing how horsewoman is scummy on page 1, doesn't give me confidence that this is a real scumread.

[tris]

i'm a bit worried because assuming slime!scum where's the counterwagon?
it has to be the horsewoman pushes, right? i mean i suppose it's there but i'd sort of expect more
maybe scum just sort of mutually gave up on that

at the same time, if they just don't show up, what are we to do.

[tris]

i just wanted to hear what people's reasons for wanting to yeet slime were

[tris]

"The Slime Collective is scum" is a positive claim. one which of course can be supported by argument that they aren't making town content. in which case that would the answer to the question "why is The Slime Collective scum?"

[tris]

"The Slime Collective is scum" is a positive claim. one which of course can be supported by argument that they aren't making town content. in which case that would the answer to the question "why is The Slime Collective scum?"

^Perfect example of my point. Slime is scum is not my premise, but my conclusion.

Your argument goes something like:
P1. Slime collective has no scummy content
P2. Players who have no scummy content are likely scum
C1. Slime collective is not likely scum

Besides being a totally different argument to the one we were having, I dispute both premises here. I decided to dispute the one I think is more easily realizable as false, P2, since absence of scum content does not always make someone less scummy, especially when they have no town content. So I pointed out that I disagree with both of your premises, but also pointed out that this SEPARATE argument doesn't address my first posited argument. We are getting into the weeds with this just for me to prove my point, so if you could just take the L here so we can move on that would be great.

that is not at all an argument i was making. all i was doing is trying to get people to state why they scumread slime. that's why i asked the question. and you did essentially answer that question, so can we stop arguing about this? in the post you quoted, i literally stated that a lack of town content can be an argument for someone being scum.

Pedit: I don't think you are very scummy ATM, but your push on me has lessened your towncred a bit. Kyoko I've townread since the beginning of the game. Tris does have some slime partner equity but that's for tomorrow. I've already said most of that

huh, i actually, townread horsewoman more here compared to the rest of the game.

[tris]

eh, whatever

VOTE: The Slime Collective

[tris]

i concur with kyoko that i want horsewoman to react to my pushing on her.

I said I liked your entry into the game and that your read on me felt authentic. Obviously your read on me is wrong. I don't know what else to say - your reasons for scumreading on me I have usually been over pages ago with other people.

ok, i should probably ask some specific questions then

[tris]

UNVOTE:

[tris]

err, VOTE: horsewoman

[tris]

i concur with kyoko that i want horsewoman to react to my pushing on her.

I said I liked your entry into the game and that your read on me felt authentic. Obviously your read on me is wrong. I don't know what else to say - your reasons for scumreading on me I have usually been over pages ago with other people.

ok, i should probably ask some specific questions then

ok, so at what point did you change your stance on kyoko and how did that happen?
and, why did you initially think that kyoko's explanations were a copout? could you break that down a little more?

[tris]

"YES". -tris

[tris]

the posts being dumb is not the same as the post coming from a place of the person who made them being dumb, so i don't think there's a contradiction here. this plus not seeing how horsewoman is scummy on page 1, doesn't give me confidence that this is a real scumread.

I never said it was a contradiction. I implied it was disingenuous, which is something else entirely. What I think horsewoman did there was qualify kyoko's posts as dumb so that horsewoman herself can go ahead and defend it as not the same as scummy because she is taking the game out of RVS, to then argue it isn't even dumb because it's taking the game out of RVS.

i don't understand. you're saying she called the post dumb so that she could say they're not dumb? intentionally making an attack to turn around and defend it?

as for page 1, I don't remember ever talking anything about those posts horsewoman made and I think nothing of them.

64

hot take of the night? VOTE: tris

heh.

[tris]

VOTE: horsewoman

[tris]

Gimlis post convinced me to do it

how did it do that

[tris]

huh. i just had a thought that maybe i'll share later

[tris]

why is his action worse than yours

[tris]

why would we rolecop someone who be a likely yeet?

-----------------------------------

i'm still holding onto datisi town, although this kill seems odd. i was sure datisi was going to be the kill, and if not, then maybe bugspray. but, my townread there is strong, so i'm not budging. it might be good to consider why ythan. maybe the mafia wanted to keep datisi to go after me, which would be suggestive of bugspray mafia. i haven't really gotten to evaluating bugspray though, so that should be my next task.

with datisi assumed town, that leaves me with bugspray, superbowl, and gimli. that false Y-2 by superbowl was awful, and while town can make mistakes, there's a pretty good chance of superbowl being mafia anyway. and he had good motive to do that because he might have noticed that i was starting to reconsider on horsewoman, and the vote might have turned around on him.

[tris]

me and superbowl duh

[tris]

you really thought that was a scumslip?

[tris]

could you explain why i'm superbowl's partner? do you scumread me for anything?

[tris]

bugspray's hammer is so much worse than superbowl's L-2. anyone can lose count, but not checking before you put a L-1 vote when the gameday had two pages is really something else. the phrasing used to put a vote there is so artificial. he took the easiest argument to pile on horsewoman for, went 'and you don't?' and then fucking hammered. If superbowl did what he did on purpose as part of a scheme, then they're both scum and we should eliminate bugspray first. I'll feel really stupid if we somehow get endgamed by this.

btw horsewoman did nothing wrong by hammering TSC. we spent 5 days going back and forth with it and it was a fair elim to make that most players were getting behind. I know for a fact there had to be scum in that wagon, and given datisi is the only player left that's not me and didn't participate in it, and given how much of a travesty that eliminate was, I have peace of mind on solving the game inside <tris, bugs, superbowl> and I'm fine with losing to datisi if that is wrong.

ok, i think you have a point. it doesn't make as much sense for superbowl to do a risky move like that if it wasn't in concert with bugspray.

As to what my interpretation of the 'dumb' posts were, as pointless as it is to talk about it now but assuming your questioning is real and you're not pretending not to understand, then yes I thought she was intentionally giving kyoko a hard adjective just to turn around and say 'well that isn't scummy though', and as I said before I thought she was 'making shit up' and being disingenuous, not making a contradiction which was what you accused me of suggesting.

ok

huh. i just had a thought that maybe i'll share later

this is a good time to share it.

actually, i can't, sorry.

Gimlis post convinced me to do it

how did it do that

didn't my post had an argument with it? why wouldn't it?

i wanted to hear from her how she was thinking about it.

why would

we

rolecop someone who be a likely yeet?

WHO?
scumslip?

you really thought that was a scumslip?

now that looks more like scum theatre than superbowl-bugs. 'you really thought that was a scumslip?', followed by nothing of course.

how does them not responding implicate me?

of course thinking that's a scumslip is really alarming.

yes i agree.

You can lim me for it, but I made an actual mistake.

The chances that bugspray votes then decides to count themselves within 10 minutes is so minute

- I had scum caught D1 and was distracted by slime's terrible play. Bugspray is scum

so, if bugspray is scum, there's definitely bussing going. the bolded is a good point

Either way me or bugspray should be the elim today

why? anyone other than you should be better than you as far as you're concerned. autolose if you're a misyeet.

[tris]

i am a little uneasy about both gimli and superbowl are fosing bugspray, but i also really dislike bugspray's entrance today.

[tris]

so, if bugspray is scum, there's definitely bussing going

How do you know this? Couldn't the green hair avi be the partner? I mean sure if it's a read that makes sense, but you can't know that for sure can you?

yeah i'm townreading datisi. that's why i say that.

[tris]

ok cool.

[tris]

bugspray, do you have responses to the accusations?

[tris]

Going to taco bell, if I get back and we're still here we basically know there's scum in me and bugs right? Not that we couldn't already assume this

the vibe i get from this post is scum player who is confident at least one townie will vote me so that the scum partner can hammer
but here's the thing is that we can imagine a situation where superbowl and i are now gone... like one of us is scum and town assuming scum doesn't just hammer me and then we can imagine that we elim the scum and the town gets nk'd and now there's round two of yeetlo which would be gimli, datisi, and tris.

I think if we reach a stable hammerless state we should approach this current round of yeetlo that that idea in mind

i haven't ruled svs off the table though.

[tris]

lol

[tris]

i am not scum lol

[tris]

can't you see how it would be plausible for superbowl to see the way the wind is blowing and jump on you if you're both scum?

[tris]

you basically haven't explained yourself at all today, bugspray.

[tris]

you really thought that was a scumslip?

could you explain why i'm superbowl's partner? do you scumread me for anything?

[tris]

how the fuck am i supposed to read you then. well, i guess if i'm just left with that entrance and no further explinations. i guess i'll just assume you're mafia. whatever

[tris]

i just don't buy that someone sees that as a scumslip

[tris]

yeah, of course. i'll get to reading people once i've had my dinner

pedit: i am going to read you more, but i my scumread from your entrance is pretty strong and i don't think it'll go away.

[tris]

the part before the pedit was in response to 683

[tris]

yeah, of course. i'll get to reading people once i've had my dinner

pedit: i am going to read you more, but i my scumread from your entrance is pretty strong and i don't think it'll go away.

actually in the morning. i'm such a liar

[tris]

i did not expect that! what a dysfunctional town lol.

[tris]

this game is hilarious

[tris]

i guess i should have known that it was all town's fault. i once won as mafia in game like this.