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Post #73 (isolation #0) » Fri Dec 25, 2020 12:10 am
Postby Gimli »
Hullo! Hope you're all having a great christmas.
It turns out that DKkoba's theory was wrong and redflavor's opened came from town. I liked the theory, I think it's towny that dk thought this long and hard about it, and part of me was just curious enough to know so I decided to replace in when the chance appeared.
I might be squinting too hard but I like the question here.
In post 16, Ahsoka wrote:Is there ever a reason to publish a list on Day 2? It seems like 2 misfades is a loss in this game.
I like this too cause it's a little awkward as an entrance to just go ahead and open with mechanics. maybe if ahsoka is mafia she'll open with some other thing.
In post 18, Ahsoka wrote:anything other than a policy to explain the seriousness, other wise the seriousness is just fabricated.
and now I don't know. this is assuming too many things.
I thought this was a reads list and i was at the top and i was actually happy to see that i was townread early for once. Disappointment is immeasurable
I don't like this post. This feels like a lie and there's absolutely no reason to post that thought process other than to appear towny. only a few people posted so clearly NM's list isn't a reads list...
how about you let other people decide if that is a townslip? also fair to note DK was annoying my slot cause redflavor had like a small hint of being mechanically aware, and now they're looking like they don't know anything at all about the game they're playing. so how does dkkoba know there's a doomcounter and they don't know there's 3 mafia?
ahsoka again with mechanics. not sure what to make of it but maybe that's still town.
YES! someone is saying something right for once. I like radja already.
dkkoba's reaction makes me wanna eliminate them.
volxen knows mech and I'm fine with that.
dkkoba and raya are too cool with each other, with no apparent determination to figure each other out. Not great.
dkkoba talking about other games + too clueless about mechanics while also talking a whole bunch of it + forced posting to and about players. so far this is a scumread I have.
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Post #80 (isolation #5) » Fri Dec 25, 2020 12:58 am
Postby Gimli »
wow dkkoba has 34 posts and most of them are scummy. I can't wait to have the thread buried by scum!dkkoba and us never being able to eliminate it cause he is so loud.
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Post #82 (isolation #7) » Fri Dec 25, 2020 1:19 am
Postby Gimli »
this setup requires strong play from town. we must find each other on this gameday, build a towncore with only town in it and crush the opposition. let's make every single real day count. I'm town, I'm on your side and I'm counting on you.
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Post #91 (isolation #8) » Fri Dec 25, 2020 5:33 am
Postby Gimli »
In post 86, clidd wrote:Many of Gimli's reads in relation to DK seem like things that I could manufacture as scum to push someone, but I still believe that there is a scenario where he is not used to DK and, by default, interpreted his entire line of action as too weird to be town. I'm waiting to see which way my impression on him will go.
Hullo! I never played with anyone in this lineup except for horsewoman, so yes I'm not 'used' to the players. However, my scumread on dkkoba has nothing to do with 'weird'. I interpreted their posts, some of them at least, as dishonest or otherwise just scummy behaviour. Also I'm not sure you should say, even if you played with someone before, that out of their 34 posts none of them was alignment indicative. Surely you just can't read them either way and that's fine, and maybe if I had your experience with dkkoba I wouldn't read them as AI either, but that doesn't mean they're not AI. I liked your posts otherwise except for that word 'weird' which bothered me a little.
Raya with the softballs to dk again. No interest in koba's alignment while posting to them.
The dishonest part of your posting that I referred to was the comment you made about NM's list, saying you thought it was a reads list, which is probably a lie you decided to tell for reasons yet to be discovered. I'll let you know if I still find you scummy in a bit.
as to whether you could fake a particular thought process that looks like townslip, I'm in no position to evaluate and you made it a moot point by announcing your own posting as townslipping. Now it just reads as deliberately doing things just to get townread for doing them.
I have nothing to say to #99. we'll see where my read goes.
btw I like clidd's impression of volxen as towny and I like the way he is approaching ahsoka. seems like he is posting in good faith trying to parse out the slots.
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Post #192 (isolation #18) » Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:35 pm
Postby Gimli »
In post 147, Ahsoka wrote:People play expecting town to have reads, but a townie shouldn't have strong reads at this point in the game. I will converse as I see fit, and these conversations will look good to look at in hindsight, which is why I converse.
I have given my thoughts on the stuff that stood out the most.
a townie 'shouldn't' have strong reads as opposed to 'I don't have strong reads' points to someone trying to mimetize town behaviour as opposed to just being town.
In post 147, Ahsoka wrote:People play expecting town to have reads, but a townie shouldn't have strong reads at this point in the game. I will converse as I see fit, and these conversations will look good to look at in hindsight, which is why I converse.
I have given my thoughts on the stuff that stood out the most.
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Post #194 (isolation #20) » Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:37 pm
Postby Gimli »
In post 162, Ahsoka wrote:I don't know Gimli, but I know you and Kkoba, so let's fight. Shall we?
I believe this push on me is fabricated. I believe there are town on my wagon currently, as I specifically do not think Gimli and Dkkoba are both scum voting me.
Clidd can be scum because they hard misrepped me right when momentum on me could have gone either way. They can be impatient town. Either way, this should end up amusing.
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Post #197 (isolation #22) » Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:49 pm
Postby Gimli »
I might be strong townreading clidd after these pages but their scum game could be just that good. and then dkkoba to a lesser extent, given I'm reading some of the things they posted early in a different light. raja can be town, but her posts are still too easy to and about everyone.
as far as d1 goes, that leaves me with volxen, radja, NM, horsewoman, ahsoka. ahsoka is an actual scumread out of this bunch. everyone else should be solidly null, though I liked radja's two posts.
kind of awkward posting but I'm back later with more.
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Post #198 (isolation #23) » Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:50 pm
Postby Gimli »
In post 196, Ahsoka wrote:Look at that hard discredit train of Gimli, just chop chop chopping me down.
That might actually be scum indicative. He made the choice to push further, almost unnecessarily, in a nitpicky fashion like the italics. Seems like they want to keep momentum going on me.
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Post #241 (isolation #28) » Sat Dec 26, 2020 6:48 am
Postby Gimli »
In post 223, DkKoba wrote:i think its not worth pushing volxen rn because they give me the impression of a player who thrives better when not pushed on. And if theyre scum they'll either scumtell hard or spew partners. (Or be spewed via a flip)
also im biased cause they correctly outlined my thought process uwu
this is funny. why are you saying this when raja is pushing clidd, and none of them are presenting a scumread on volxen, quite the contrary? who was pushing volxen to make this post sensible?
that's aggressive. I asked you a few questions, you're free to ignore them, but you don't tell me to be quiet. I didn't disrespect you in this game and expect the same from you.
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Post #277 (isolation #33) » Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:34 pm
Postby Gimli »
Hullo! I wish you all a great sunday ahead.
In post 251, Radja wrote:
I'm not really following what Raya and clidd are arguing about.
Gimli's "regardless of clidd's alignment, Raya is locktown" seems really weird to me. Why would a clidd flip not make you reconsider your read?
Maybe if you understood their argument you'd understand why I'm so hard in leaning raya town. It does appear to me that raya, volxen and clidd are playing something of a game of their own, with all that combined meta and wits between the 3 of them. Raya caught clidd being too hasty in townreading volxen for something volxen did that isn't supposed to be read as towny, and I think the push in that direction was too nuanced to ever come from scum. Even if clidd is town, that doesn't diminish the towniness in raya's thought process.
Speaking of which, I was a little uneasy with clidd's strong TR of me, because my TR of clidd was weaking at that point and I think he noticed it (given I was open about strong townreading raya), and I felt that maybe clidd decided to try to maintain himself on my good side by pocketing me. I'm not sure my posts were towny enough to be townread that strongly.
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Post #278 (isolation #34) » Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:39 pm
Postby Gimli »
In post 260, Ahsoka wrote:Raises Dkk because they also saw Radja being opportunistic.
Gimli switching is town.
So Gimli/Dkk both town, likely, that's 50% town block already then.
Ahsoka seems like a bit of an oddball type of player, and as an oddball myself I sympathize with how hard it is sometimes to make yourself understood. That is to say I might have been too hasty in identifying the oddity of her posting as scummy, and a post such as this appears to have layers of genuine solvey thought processes. It's not a strong read but I've been liking the way she responded to all the pressure.
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Post #281 (isolation #37) » Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:42 am
Postby Gimli »
did a re-read on the entire thing.
clidd is a stronger townlean now than before the re-read. I think what bothers me the most about him is townreading volxen based off nothing, then trying to act smart about it. I'm also townreading ahsoka now. I think the way she developed her posting in thread was very natural and the way she responded to pressure was good. it's not much but I gotta work with this townpool for now <raya, ahsoka, clidd>.
if I squint real hard, I can see something towny about radja. NM did nothing either way.
that leaves me with volxen, dkkoba and horsewoman. volxen's wall defending dkkoba's tripping over themselves at the beginning of d1 and then dkkoba going 'i feel naked uwu' and then defending volxen when no one was pushing him are all suspicious to me. + no one pushed horsewoman yet, someone who was just here to complain about a game having 6 pages 36 hours into it. if she was town there'd be a wagon already.
Also, liking Horsewoman's catchup. Should I be afraid she's trying to pocket?
I'm kind of thinking this is Dkk scum too.
I like horsewoman's catchup so far as well. I think you look towny when skimming through the pages so the lean on you is natural and doesn't feel pocket-y to me. I'm vibing with this post of yours as towny.
clidd's hinting at being town in some of his impressions. e.g. tone reading raya as town very early and reading my push on dk as easy to manufacture as scum were decent. I like how he pushed you and I don't think him voting you is opportunistic, although I understand why you felt that way.
at this point you're a bigger TR of mine than clidd fwiw.
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Post #311 (isolation #44) » Sun Dec 27, 2020 6:30 am
Postby Gimli »
a couple of things are bothering me with this string of posts:
- Volxen as third town. I checked volxen's post as scum that clidd posted here and it's not comparatively that different from his entrances in this game. His explanation on why dkkoba's early game stuff is towny is certainly crafty, but it's still superficial and easy to make as scum if you have all the tools that volxen clearly has. That post about dkkoba misses that dkkoba can just be doing things on a whim as scum which makes all logic moot. It's also making points that are too unnecessary, like discussing the possibility of dkkoba 'pre-planning' those posts and how that is only possible if we're both scum. It's pretty but it is not solvey. His posts to clidd aren't towny either. And since clidd is townreading all of that stuff, I can't help but wonder if the whole thing isn't staged.
- the votes on radja being possible busses don't feel right as an argument here. clidd is supposedly townreading that radja reads list, so when he talks about bussing (and gives it 30% odds which is very high actually) it feels artificial that his head went there instead of thinking radja looks like someone scum wants to eliminate. and since this is a 6v3 setting, 'bussing' shouldn't be something we're truly considering until people flip. In fact, I don't know where the scum are exactly but I'm almost sure there's powerwolfing going on in this game.
I don't wanna pile on clidd and I want to give this time for me to reevaluate but this last string of posting makes me feel clidd might be scum after all.
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Post #409 (isolation #46) » Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:51 pm
Postby Gimli »
Hullo! Wish you all a great week. Hello Lostego, welcome to the game and thank you for participating. I'm sure trying to catch up on all of this in one sitting isn't a comfortable thing to do.
I have little time for mafia today but let's see what I make of it.
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Post #414 (isolation #47) » Sun Dec 27, 2020 10:10 pm
Postby Gimli »
In post 315, clidd wrote:Gimli, I don't think you're scum and if you feel like that about me you should probably vote me.
As long as you keep evaluating me, I don't see a problem, as I said to Raya.
I don't think I can clear you for a multitude of reasons but the way I'm trying to work out this d1 now is by finding the townies and then hitting scum with an approximate POE. I'm very far from tunneling and am always evaluating. I feel very uneasy being townread so easily by someone I'm scumreading, it's normally the other way around with things like that and I'll feel dumb if you're town here and I just can't see it, cause it certainly won't be your fault if so.
Gimli>
- Why do you think I should be townreading Ahsoka?
- Is Volxen null or scumlean to you?
- If scum!radja were real, don't you think that scum would buss Radja if he's acting scummy?
- Let's see. By the time you made that post, I feel she was already towntelling with posts such as 259-260, and her reaction to your push looked towny for me. You have more elements now after she argued with dkkoba. I think your read there was too ecstatic when you've been taking the thinnest elements to townread other players such as volxen and radja.
- I think volxen has a higher than average chance of being scum, purely because of POE + his posts were not towny in the slightest for me. I haven't evaluated his replacement yet.
- Maybe they would but also I'm townreading the only person who voted radja late and that was horsewoman.
I really like working in a game when players like you are around
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Post #415 (isolation #48) » Sun Dec 27, 2020 10:17 pm
Postby Gimli »
In post 327, Raya36 wrote:
If that game is over, was Gimli scum in that game? Just trying to understand what you mean about the quantity of reads/analysis.
I was scum if she didn't answer already. Her read on me in this game (worse posting as town indicative) is one of the reasons I'm strong townreading horsewoman here. Seems like the right kind of read to make anyway.
I literally have almost nothing to say, this day 1 has been really weird and I'm kind of checked out. Dkkoba's hyperposting is dominating everything and I can't even read them because Im biased against them.
your input has helped this game immensely. if you don't say anything it's even more thread space that's filled with things I don't feel like reading either. what do you think of lostego so far?
In post 381, Ahsoka wrote:
I town read Gimli and Horsewoman, and to a lesser extent, Raya. In what world would I see that, and the way you've been discrediting me here, and think you're automatically town?
what are you hiding?
I don't wanna interfere with your line of questioning but what are you seeing here?
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Post #425 (isolation #54) » Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:11 pm
Postby Gimli »
I don't have a real established scumread yet and I want to stretch this gameday as long as possible until I figure things out.
Maybe lostego's catchup was towny. There are a few small hints in that direction like his progression on ahsoka that seems organic. also... maybe horsewoman's apathy is something many townsplayers are sharing in common in this game, which is a shame and that's all I'm gonna say on the matter.
can you expand on this? I'm having the most difficult time with my volxen/lostego read and while I get in general why you found his catch up scummy, it's not enough to grasp your perspective. lostego being scum fits with how I'm looking at the game and at what direction I think the scum are pointed but their posts, as you said, can be attributed to town who is playing a lazy game which makes sense with how the thread developed.
I honestly haven't gotten a strong impression from him yet but if he's town then he is a very easy miselim target at the current gamestate and I agree that it's odd Clidd didn't come to this conclusion first considering the townread on him.
I don't know if it was possible to absorb this in my explanation, but the scenario of scum wanting to miselim him was something that came to my mind primarily. The buss scenario, which came as a secondary, was an alternative interpretation that I considered as more improbable by comparison,
but not impossible.
I think this deserves to be quoted.
In post 304, clidd wrote:
I don't think that's the case, but if my impression of radja is wrong and he is scum, I believe that the second vote could be a buss, actually, even the first is possible, keeping in mind that Radja theoretically got more scummy over time. But this scenario is meh, I'm giving it less than a 30% chance.
when you say less than 30%, is that less than 30% of the times when radja is scum, or less than 30% in general?
also you could be right about this. The way I'm looking at the game, you're either scum or you've townread scum with very slim reasoning, to the point of e.g. the volxen/you relationship in thread looking like you were either TMI townreading town volxen or townreading a scum partner. The same kind of applies to radja, who I'm probably null on at this point, and there's like 4 people acting like they know what's up when he did nothing to justify it either way. if I'm right and ahsoka, raya and horsewoman are all town, then I think it's possible scum is happily bussing and letting you eat rope for it afterwards. also I just noticed I'm only now starting to consider seriously that lostego could be scum and you could be town and not scum with him. the same sort of situation applies to most people in the POE, it's really amazing how weak your relationships with my POE are. but man if you're town I wanna be able to sort this out cause you're showing your reasoning a lot and I'm supposed to.
sorry for the big post everyone, I'm off for the day