Micro 1054 || Fuzzy Friends Coalition || Game Over!

[Datisi]

second bit: dats is townlocking ari, i'm not sure it's going the other way around as well

i would've made it clear if i was townlocking ari >.>

right - i didn't read anybody this way except for like fire ... to me this implies that scum are in the people who were exceedingly likely to get in, like: ari, dats, yourself (i.e. vs the people unlikely to get in)
std was unlikely to get in for a while, and so was mena, so i think it's more damning for those 3 people

@irrel for tomorrow: i'm particularly interested in you responding to the above

Also i suppose ari and dats while we're at it

mmm, what's the actual idea? because i think you're asking two different questions here

fire is a player that at one point became seemingly "desparate", yes, but i think the same can be applied to mala and her sudden burst in posting at one point that i thought was very odd. obviously neither of these is actually like, indicative of much, since the coalition did ultimately fail, but maybe it's indicative of partners... i'll go check that after breakfast

{ari, dats, irrel, skitter} (i'm adding you there because i feel like it applies) were exceedingly likely to get in, nobody there didn't seem to be much desperation from anyone else, therefore there's scum in that group? i guess i disagree with the premise of people not being really desperate since i think both fire and mala fit that criteria at least at some points... mena was absent for a bit, so not like he could've gotten depserate anyway, and he voted in a coalition that was not his first choice when he got back; and std did not seem thrilled about being out...

like let me know if i'm misunderstanding your point, but i feel like "there wasn't much desperation about the coalition, therefore there's scum in the more narrow consensus" is not correct?

[Datisi]

why do you not think it would work on ari

because i don't think she knows mena as well as me/skitter do and hasn't played with him enough to start picking up on that? or rather, that mena would not be betting on that since he'd know she doesn't have that much exp with him as do skitter/me

[Datisi]

this is assuming that they have played together significantly less than skitter and i did, which is to be taken with a grain of salt because i'm not aware of every single game mena has ever played, but that's the way i'm looking at it currently

[Datisi]

I think Mena is town.

why?

@Datisi:

Where's your head at? VCs aren't telling me anything about what you're thinking, you stuck to one coalition choice Day 1 and currently aren't voting anyone.

i have an iso >.> but basically, thinking mena is town for [meta reasons that seem to not vibe with anyone other than skitter], ari is town for the way she played d1. have been thinking skitter is most likely scum in the coalition for a while (but i've kinda liked her more recent posting i guess??? jury's still out), and getting increasingly nervous about irrel

outside the coalition, thinking fire is town but fuck if i know about the other three -- std is more likely to be town than the other two i guess but i am v low confidence on all of those

[Datisi]

I think Mena is town.

why?

@Datisi:

Where's your head at? VCs aren't telling me anything about what you're thinking, you stuck to one coalition choice Day 1 and currently aren't voting anyone.

i have an iso >.> but basically, thinking mena is town for [meta reasons that seem to not vibe with anyone other than skitter], ari is town for the way she played d1. have been thinking skitter is most likely scum in the coalition for a while (but i've kinda liked her more recent posting i guess??? jury's still out), and getting increasingly nervous about irrel

outside the coalition, thinking fire is town but fuck if i know about the other three -- std is more likely to be town than the other two i guess but i am v low confidence on all of those

[Datisi]

maybe not specific meta points but like the AtE in general clearly did have an effect on ari

okay, but that's not what i'm interested in there, it's whether scum!mena would've thought it would've had an effect -- which my gut tells me "no" but i don't know of every single game they've played in before so y'know

anything interesting from perpetual melo?

[Datisi]

fire, how confident are you in your vote? also i assume you're planning to vote mena, but correct me if i'm wrong

[Datisi]

okay i looked over parts of mala's iso, coupled with the vc in 766, and hmm. mala came into the game saying how she wanted to remove me/ari/std from coalitions -- i'm the most consensus townread of the three at that point, the other two are kind of likely to get in but also not a lock.

basically i think her actions there, if scum, make most sense if she's partners with mena? like, she doesn't outright strong townread him, she's "okay" with him being in, but also her preferred coalition has both her and nk15 in (lol) and i think she'd definitely be aware enough to know that is not happening so then by process of elimination, who gets in...?

i'm not sure whether mala's vote on mena on early d2 makes sense, i guess it does if it was pure distancing and hoping the wagon turns to someone else, but meh. and roden's quick turnaround on mena is not Good, i guess. if we do end up yeeting mena and he reds, i will give this more thought. but like, nowhere near convinced these associates are so bad that they override my individual read of mena.

[Datisi]

writing 1868 reminded me that she was the only person who i recalled explicitly noting "hey, this person suddenly started looking panicky" and it made me wonder if it would give any revelations about the game

it did not, but like, the hope was there i guess

i'm basically procrastinating making a decision on the actual issue because making decisions is scary >.>

[Datisi]

For the purposes of this question i'm looking at people in the coalition: we know there's at least one scum in it

Yet nobody who got in was really anxious or panicky about getting in - to me that kinda implies that there's scum in the earlier consensus who didnt need to worry abt getting in

i see what you mean now, ty

i don't think that's actually very helpful since 4 of the 5 seemed kinda likely to get in for a while, and the 5th one is mena who was v/la for a decent portion of that time iirc, and who did vote for the first coalition that had himself in, so /shrug

[Datisi]

consensus nominations tend to be town
...
I've noticed while skimming that a lot of people think there's at least one scum between you and Ari

how is skitter being a consensus nomination +town for her, but not for other people that were consensus too?

who is the "a lot" - and there *have* been people pushing for ari, why do you think they're not scum? who was trying to stop our wagon?

[Datisi]

This is maybe the towniest post Menalque has posted all game

how is *that* the towniest post from him for you?

and while i know i've been called lazy, i don't appreciate it >.> i've read the points against him being scum, i don't see it. i could be wrong, i've been wrong before and i will be wrong again, but i don't think he has a red role pm this game. so. the only reason why i'm stalling is because i'm wondering if there's a chance i have some sorta revelation that makes me either sure in voting you, or sure in voting someone else. i know it's very unlikely to happen, but

[Datisi]

This is maybe the towniest post Menalque has posted all game

how is *that* the towniest post from him for you?

and while i know i've been called lazy, i don't appreciate it >.> i've read the points against him being scum, i don't see it. i could be wrong, i've been wrong before and i will be wrong again, but i don't think he has a red role pm this game. so. the only reason why i'm stalling is because i'm wondering if there's a chance i have some sorta revelation that makes me either sure in voting you, or sure in voting someone else. i know it's very unlikely to happen, but

[Datisi]

why do i keep double-posting >_>

i will be so fuckin mad if scum!mena decided to not fake paranoia on me because ~it's not helpful for the game~ and i bought it but it is what it is

[Datisi]

i can call myself lazy, nobody else can

and where did i shrug you off? like i assume that's how it looked like from your pov maybe, but the reasons i've read against menalque just do not feel very good

ugh i can try to reread parts of it again but i don't know if i'll be changing my mind at this point

I guess maybe she would be worried that she might look bad for being wrong on me when she's normally incredibly good? but that seems weak because I don't think she worries about much at all when scum, and that probably doesn't get picked up on by anyone other than maybe datisi

this was my idea -- like, i think she knows that if she screwed up her read on you that badly, (1) you would be screaming for her to go down tomorrow, (2) i would very much listen to that and push it

[Datisi]

yep, i reread the case and i feel like i could write another wall on why i don't think the reasons are Good but i also don't really think that would be much helpful for anyone

[Datisi]

yep, i reread the case and i feel like i could write another wall on why i don't think the reasons are Good but i also don't really think that would be much helpful for anyone

Okay for the sake of this conversation which if skitter/ari is more likely scum fypov

skitter

it's like, i think there are way more things that i can point out being +town for ari than i can for skitter. yes i know most of my reasons got shot down as bad but i don't think they all are. i don't think scum!ari plays d1 the way she did and i don't think she offers to sheep and be out of the coalition unless she's like, 100% sure her partner is already inside. and if that's the case, then her partner has to be within you/skitt i think, which means it's better to flip there first either way then re-eval ari after the flip

[Datisi]

You think she’s defending Menalque specifically because she would be obvscum to you and Menalque if she didn’t?

yes but not really -- i think her "i would've gone after mena on d2 if i was scum in this game" is false because if she did go after mena, she would make herself obvscum *to him*, and then i would loudly sheep his dying words the next day (or she'd have to shoot me and remove a possible misyeet)

[Datisi]

Like does ari gain towncred later if she was right that me/mena are t/t and she did nothing to stop it even though she publicly worried about it?

you see, here i wanted to respond with "i don't think scum!her would be doing that in that universe" but then i realized that that would be giving her towncred for it, which uhh

but i don't think she would do it because the obvious scum-motivation of that overrides the wifom-towncred she'd get

[Datisi]

Like you and her have felt equally “nope sorry” about my push on Menalque since I and std started the push, if she were a little less sure it would be an easy miselim that makes me look p scummy. Why defend him in such a way that it would be hard to even turn on him later? I guess a NK is an option but limming and NKing inside the coalition seems risky

because she saw i wasn't budging and thought me/mena would find it suspicious if she did? because she doesn't really need to keep EVERYONE in the coalition as an open option, in fact it would also seem scummy if she did? because she hopes that mena would take the majority of the heat tomorrow if you flip green today?

like, none of these inherently make skitter scum, don't get me wrong, but i don't think she's as cleared town as you seem to think she is for strongly townreading mena

[Datisi]

I did think it was scummy that ari’s single strong, non-sheep argument all game long is that skitter is wrong and bad for voting her. I’d kind of forgotten but isn’t it sort of scummy that her only emphatic push could be read as self-defense? @datisi

i guess this is where meta comes into play because my mental idea of ari being scum is that she would be Pushing Bullshit and wouldn't be that flaccid, just giving good arguments while not really doing anything with them.

if i'm wrong on that meta point and ari did decide to just ~vibe~ in the game as scum and wait to see if townies start clawing at each other rather than create chaos herself, then uh, i'd have to re-eval her i guess but

man, i'm starting to realize i use way more meta than i thought

[Datisi]

shut up <.<

i've seen her once when she replaced into a game i was hydraing in. i do know of some other accounts, though.

[Datisi]

well well, this game just got spicy

interested to see your isoing~

[Datisi]

i mean

if you wanna go the "source: trust me bro" route, knock yourself out

[Datisi]

where a lot of people are particularly concerned with either finding townies or possibly excluding themselves from the coalition, datisi seems focused on discrediting townreads on people in a way that seemed like jockeying to ensure he'd be one of the most townread

well this feels like utter bullshit considering i was working towards a coalition from the start of d1

[Datisi]

ngl i will be incredibly annoyed if the scum-plan for this was "ok as soon as you enter the game, start pushing datisi for whatever reason you come up with, a few people had doubts there recently"

[Datisi]

(1) i don't read games closely after i die in them
(2) from what i remember in that game, there was an ongoing bus between your slot and gl so it made sense to continue it. if you're replacing into a shitty situation here or if your partner would be likely to go down after you, you can't play the same way
(3) you're a much better scum player than needed for the "i would always play the same way in x situation" to work

[Datisi]

except your partner would win much easier if you get a misyeet or two, and again, if the partner is in a shit position themselves you need a hail mary

saying "you're scum for not trying to figure out if i'm a wrong town" is very funny considering you yourself first said that you have no plans of showing your work, and then you dropped a poe "not trying to find townies" scumread of me so like lol?

[Datisi]

dunno you reflexively going to suggesting this is scummy from me rather than figuring out if im incorrect just feels like a scum response to me

like yeah

i think your read on me being what it is, accompanied with "idk maybe i'm confbiased lol", and townreading skitt and ari for weird and easy reasons in a time where i am probably the most possible alternate flip? yeah it's not a good look from where i'm standing

[Datisi]

i said i think your characterization of my play is wrong

you went "no, actually" and that was that

like excuse me for getting the idea that you were not planning to actually talk to me

[Datisi]

like 2019 is a post that just screams "i am open for a conversation about my reads with you"

[Datisi]

why am i not surprised at all at this turn of events

2034 is a lol post because he was accusing me of "wow, datisi going on the defensive and not bothering to determine whether i'm incorrect is a scum response!!" but when *i* ask why he doesn't seem willing to have a conversation and is shutting me out, it's "i don't think that would get us anywhere achkcually sorry"

if skitter is scum then she is the scum in the coalition and her not doing enough to get STD in is...entirely irrelevant. it does not change the gamestate AT ALL if STD is in coalition or out of coalition in skitter-scum worlds. I would think Datisi is sharp enough to realize this. the idea he posits is that skitter would have done more as town but is really just making the presumption that town always plays optimally or ideally and that's just not true. people are timid sometimes. it does not make them scum. skitter is often indecisive as town. i dont think this is a genuine suspicion on datisis part.

this is not my argument. this was never my argument. i KNOW town!skitter can be indecisive as town. i've seen it happen. i don't think it's very ai for skitter to be decisive or indecisive. i know townies are sometimes lazy i'm often lazy like holy fuck.

my point was that skitter's actions pre-coalition and post-coalition do not fucking track. she did very little to get std in and kept mentioning how she'd maybe sorta kinda be okay with ari in.

this by itself is not a problem

. the problem is when she does that, AND THEN after the coalition fails she goes on a rant about how she really really wanted std in and woe is her we didn't let her get her preferred coalition when she fought for it so hard and she wanted to keep ari out at all costs.

like, i didn't want to say it at the time to not tip skitter off to what i was thinking but i thought that had a lot of scum motivation if she's scum with std. keep saying how scum probably wants both partners inside, get him out the coalition, he's safe while she gets to push others. who would've seen it coming because she's bus happy and by the time she flips red it's not going to matter.

hell, if she isn't his partner, that could've been a setup for a time after she flips. maybe she thought ari was easier to flip than std. i don't know the exact scum motivation because i am not a mind reader. but i saw something that had good potential of being scummy and i wanted to question it.

[Datisi]

Datisi!town doesn't need to discred BloodHail!scum because BloodHail!scum is going to flip scum.

Datisi only needs to discred BloodHail if bloodHail is going to flip town

ok thank you, and im saying that datisi!town isn't necessarily sure that bloodhail is going to flip at all right now

like i think there's a world where the lim ends up on mena or even datisi today

and if datisi is town and thinks bloodhail is scum then wouldn't discrediting help prevent that?

i'm not sure where this line of conversation even came from, but like

if i (either alignment) thought it was inevitable bloodhail flips today, i don't have to spend time discrediting and arguing with him either way

if i (either alignment) thought there's a chance he actually gets his way (which, uh, i kind of think there is considering the thread atmosphere) then i gotta argue against him

if i could magically know for certain what he's gonna flip and use my energy accordingly, i would, but alas

[Datisi]

@bloodhail why do u think scum-dats has been townreading mena so vociferously?
Also what do u think abt the fact that he gave v similar reasons to townread mena as u just did ... ?

because mena is an omgussy boy and he doesnt want to get on his bad side. (that's how i played around mena as scum, lol)

the reasoning for mena-town is more or less accurate. that doesnt matter a ton to me. scum can give reasoning for townreads that is true and accurate because they have perfect info.

ah yeah, because going "hey mena. i townread you. no paranoia whatsoever. here have a towncase on you." is an amazing way to get him to townread me and would absolutely never backfire

and i'm annoyed abt the "scum can give reasoning that is accurate" because true only to a degree - scum have perfect info, sure, but they still need to fake their way onto presenting that info. i don't think the case i did on mena is close to anything i've ever done as scum but this is an easy way to discredit it bc "lol scum haves info"

[Datisi]

Also dats i'm a little confused why ur sticking with ur reasons to townread ari when even ari said they were bad reasons

because there are certain reasons that she did not say were bad, and because i don't think scum!her tries to shut down my townread of her the way she did, and because there is nothing good to come today from attempting to flip her

[Datisi]

ironically enough, my takeaway from 2097 is that skitter should be the one realizing that this is not my scumgame

i could write a case on why this is very much not my scumgame but like, i know most people don't exactly care about reading that sorta thing

i am starting to wonder if we were getting bamboozled by a skitter/irrel team because the fact that bloodhail comes in and starts screaming about how i'm scum and skitter continues saying she doesn't know who it is if not bloodhail, but when i get another vote she goes on this tangent where she explains how hey maybe datisi is not that townie hmm hmm hmm

[Datisi]

Dats why were u so opposed to std even being in the coalition again? Like i'm reading backwards but u very emphatically refuse me/irrel/std/mena in 1037 in favor of me/you/mena/irrel/std (i.e. taking out std, adding you and ari), but u have a post from later that morning iso-ing std and walking back the scumread a bit

BECAUSE I THOUGHT ARI WAS TOWNIER THAN HIM

like jesus chirst think for a bit what my scum plan was in this game

consistently shade the slots that are lower on the poe

consistently try to push the people that are ABOSLUTE HELL to misyeet into the coalition with me

is this something that scum does?? do you think i hate myself so much i'd walk into a coalition with people such as you and mena and ari that i know for a fact scum-me can't outpost, and irrel who i can very much see is a competent and a high-wim player

so many times there was someone who talked about maybe putting in nk15 or mala or fire or std and those are all people that are easier to deal with than all of you (and you can't argue they're all my partners) and that i would be having a much easier time turning on later on but nope? i decide to stand my ground and get the players i know i can't win a fight against as scum into the coalition because why??? i think the wifom argument is going to carry me to victory???

[Datisi]

i shouldn't be getting tilted

but seeing such bad arguments against me be actually listened to because ??? is lol

[Datisi]

like, i didn't want to say it at the time to not tip skitter off to what i was thinking but i thought that had a lot of scum motivation if she's scum with std. keep saying how scum probably wants both partners inside, get him out the coalition, he's safe while she gets to push others. who would've seen it coming because she's bus happy and by the time she flips red it's not going to matter.

?

what's the question mark for. bloodhail is claiming how i should've have been questioning you based on your reversal on std/ari because it didn't have any possible scum!motivation for you therefore i'm scum pushing a contradiction for the sake of pushing it. i think there was scum motivation for what you did.

And like why should i be realizing this isnt your scumgame?
(And why doesnt this logic apply to ari?)

how should this logic be applying to ari? i don't get the feeling she was inching towards pushing me.

do you think that scum!me doesn't know how to fake reads and how to push people. this is going to the same bullshit that we were going through in that pyp game, like. i KNOW people think fencesitting and being ambivalent is scummy. what do you think, how long would it take for scum!me to decide which one out of mena/irrel to push at? if you think my buddy is within them, i'd be able to decide whether or not to bus. i'd have been making theatre with my buddy, making sure i have enough towncred to win the game if they go down because it's kind of evident they're gonna go down at some point. if my partner isn't within the two of them, EVEN BETTER. i'm having a game handed to me on a silver platter and i'm waiting around for what? for mena and irrel to maybe start finding each other to be town???

and the point of "well std was the only one likely to even get in from that group" is uh, yeah. i know. that's my point. look at my play throughout the game. does it make sense for scum!me to spearhead a coalition where i'm gonna be having trouble breathing after it fails? like, trying to prop up someone like nk15 or mala or std or fire that people are more ambivalent towards and that is going to be an easy someone to turn on and push through. instead i shut down possible townreads of those people because???

and you asked me why i was for a coalition that contained me/ari and not std and was otherwise similar, how is that not framing it as a dichotomy? like if you have a question, then ask, but i don't get what you're asking me here

what do you want me to address. you just went through my iso saying "well this is not townie this is not townie" etc. like the only thing i think i *can* respond to is why i wanted ari > std and your comment about my 1333 (which i addressed at the time you first brought up). like if you want me to address something, tell me what you want addressed.

[Datisi]

sometimes i wonder how do i manage to be an open book to some and a complete mystery to others

[Datisi]

> say "scum want both partners inside right" to give a vibe that scum-you would've been doing that if scum
> keep std out of the coalition so that you don't have to deal with pushes on him once the coalition fails
> either win by flipping three other people
> if you get flipped, people with knowledge of your meta probably don't look at him because skitter is kind of bus happy and it's the coalition setup and why'd she be townreading her buddy

at this point this isn't exactly a universe i believe in since you are now nowhere near the biggest suspect for me within the coalition but at the time, i thought it was something worth exploring

[Datisi]

And like why should i be realizing this isnt your scumgame?
(And why doesnt this logic apply to ari?)

cuz I'm just not very good at reading him tbh ~_~

And i have a long history of reading him right?

well according to him you do? >.>

she does not

but she has also seen me play town like this a decent amount and the reasons she mentioned for me being scum don't really vibe with me considering she used to falsely suspect me based on them previously and the fact that she's turning around on that when bloodhail starts pushing me is convenient

[Datisi]

bloodhail

i thought it was obvious

before you ask, i'm not voting him because that puts him at y-1 and i'm trying to give people time to react to the current events without worry about a lolhammer

[Datisi]

how should this logic be applying to ari? i don't get the feeling she was inching towards pushing me. (1)

do you think that scum!me doesn't know how to fake reads and how to push people. this is going to the same bullshit that we were going through in that pyp game, like. i KNOW people think fencesitting and being ambivalent is scummy. what do you think, how long would it take for scum!me to decide which one out of mena/irrel to push at? if you think my buddy is within them, i'd be able to decide whether or not to bus. i'd have been making theatre with my buddy, making sure i have enough towncred to win the game if they go down because it's kind of evident they're gonna go down at some point. if my partner isn't within the two of them, EVEN BETTER. i'm having a game handed to me on a silver platter and i'm waiting around for what? for mena and irrel to maybe start finding each other to be town??? (2)

and the point of "well std was the only one likely to even get in from that group" is uh, yeah. i know. that's my point. look at my play throughout the game. does it make sense for scum!me to spearhead a coalition where i'm gonna be having trouble breathing after it fails? like, trying to prop up someone like nk15 or mala or std or fire that people are more ambivalent towards and that is going to be an easy someone to turn on and push through. instead i shut down possible townreads of those people because??? (3)

and you asked me why i was for a coalition that contained me/ari and not std and was otherwise similar, how is that not framing it as a dichotomy? like if you have a question, then ask, but i don't get what you're asking me here (4)

what do you want me to address. you just went through my iso saying "well this is not townie this is not townie" etc. like the only thing i think i *can* respond to is why i wanted ari > std and your comment about my 1333 (which i addressed at the time you first brought up). like if you want me to address something, tell me what you want addressed. (5)

Adding numbers to the things i'm responding to above

1. She said she thinks its you/roden if bh/mena are tvt. I am reevaluating my read on u in case i'm wrong on bh. Nor sure what the difference is between whaat i'm doing and what she's doing.

2. I dont know, but you're strongly townreading mena and kinda vaguely townreading irrel. I cant imagine that you're going to vote for mena here, so idk why you arent working on your irrel read (or, if you think he's town, working on ur read on ari/dats, which fundementally probably boils down to scumreading me given your read on ari, except you're not really pushing me eithe)

3. I mean i dont think it was viable for you to prop up nk15 or mala or fire to befin with. Std is the one i dont understand

4. Why u over std ? I do give both ari and irrel some amt of town points for not really caring if they got in or not. Eveb mena to some extent. For you, it was also a given that you were getting in. Why didnt you entertain std in some other coalition also?

5. Idk, was just expecting a little bit of a different response i guess

(1) the difference is that you have more experience with me and she's not openly making posts like 2097

(2) this post kind of feels like a "you're being lazy" argument, and if you want a longer explanation on why i'm not that would ultimately be a lot of nai explanation of my play, i can do that, but my question is unanswered there -- what is my scum motivation for doing this? what is my scum motivation for sitting around and not deciding on someone to just push through? like, how does scum!me benefit from this way of playing? i know how to fake argument as scum. i know how to push people. i know that those things get people townread. the one (1) benefit i get from playing this way as scum is being able to make this argument, which would be designed to get me out of shit i wouldn't even be in in the first place if i had just picked someone to push through and d2 was over

(3) it wasn't viable at any *singular* point on d1. but i kept keeping those doors closed and not even checking if it *could* be made viable.

(4) because i know i am town and i don't know the colour of std's role pm? irrel offered to not vote himself in at the time where it was very very likely he was going to get in one way or another. and why would i be considering std in a different coalition, what different coalition? any would've been less preferred that the one with the townreads i had

(5) ._.

[Datisi]

I also did not think it was obvious

the only lol-hammerer is already voting for bloodhail

if i (either alignment) thought it was inevitable bloodhail flips today, i don't have to spend time discrediting and arguing with him either way

if i (either alignment) thought there's a chance he actually gets his way (which, uh, i kind of think there is considering the thread atmosphere) then i gotta argue against him

also I don't really get why you are worried about bloodhail getting lolhammered if you like think he's scum trying to misflip you and you're worried he's going to misflip you

(1) people can lolhammer on accident too

(2) i am not 100% certain he is scum. and even if i were, cutting the day short here might be counterproductive because in a state like this, it's more likely people do ai things.

[Datisi]

i'm aware, that doesn't negate my point that a hammer happening during a conversation is Not Good

why do you even think i'm scum now? what has changed since you were townreading me recently?

[Datisi]

misconstructs my argument that i had already explained prior

"doesn't buy the thinking" when i'm forced to explain it again

okay

[Datisi]

what is my scum motivation for sitting around and not deciding on someone to just push through? like, how does scum!me benefit from this way of playing? i know how to fake argument as scum. i know how to push people. i know that those things get people townread. the one (1) benefit i get from playing this way as scum is being able to make this argument, which would be designed to get me out of shit i wouldn't even be in in the first place if i had just picked someone to push through and d2 was over

I mean if you're scum and mena/irrel is tvt it kinda behooves you to just vaguely watch this happening from the sidelines; you probably dont need to push either, or any other scumread

yeah, because it's definitely a given that leaving them alone would mean they would keep tunneling each other and wouldn't ever reconsider

and it's also definitely a given that others stops reading everyone other than mena/irrel

and if they flip t/t, nobody is ever going back to try to reread who was playing around it like scum

definitely much easier to risk all of that than just pick a person and tip them over

But he's also not trying to get out of getting flipped either

considering that he's pointing out reasons that make me scum then not acknowledging the responses, and that he's trying to get townread by ~solving~, it seems to me like he is trying to not get flipped but what do i know

[Datisi]

that "scum benefit" comes in place if and only if i get under fire

which would have been avoided if i had just, faked some re-evaluation, said "yeah lol prob irrel" and voted there

like if i were scum, that slot would have been dead

[Datisi]

i mean it's funny that bh is saying how i was just arguing about why i'm not scum when that was what the conversation was about, and he was the one that decided not to actually talk to me and re-evaluate

[Datisi]

like i'm annoyed bc scum isn't stupid. they know that acting desperate as a replacement would be seen as bad so that the only thing they can do is act townie by pumping out reads and choosing a target that a few people suspect and that they can realistically sway the yeet over to

but no, he's not trying to avoid getting flipped

[Datisi]

and both menalque and irrelephant seem like players who absolutely get death tunnelled on someone and never reconsider their reads. skitt, you've seen me play scum. you know how much i plan things. if i were to see a tvt pair that everyone else is tunnelled on too, i don't just ~wait~ and ~hope they go through~, because i've been burned before by a tvt turning into a mutual townread. you push that shit through when you have the chance.

also i'm aware that ~doing nothing~ is going to set off alarm bells with people that know me because people still think that scumtisi is lazier than towntisi and faking some simple reads is trivial and yadda yadda but nobody is listening because bloodhail managed to enter the game without sounding utterly desperate to not get flipped

if he's red, i consider roden clear. i highly doubt they both pile onto me as partners and i feel like bh saw roden's suspicion on my slot and went for it. if green, then skitter very much should die because her play today, both with irrel/mena and bh/me is atrocious if we're all town (and i still think mena is town) so. ari should be given a second look there too, but my reads are bad any nobody listens to the dead anyway so unless someone specifically requests this, i don't plan on rereading just for that.

[Datisi]

VOTE: bloodhail

Y-1

part of me still does not want to make this vote, because if he really is a confbiased townie, then i'll get instamurdered tomorrow and good luck solving that yeetlo. but here we are i guess.

[Datisi]

me too

[Datisi]

if im wrong on you then it falls to you to figure the game out after i die

ah yeah, because i'm definitely gonna be listened to after the bullshit you pushed today, sounds reasonable

[Datisi]

2198 was coming from his perspective, and i'm assuming he's emulating a town one? i don't get why he's saying i'd be on me to solve the game tomorrow if he dies today.

[Datisi]

Sup

yes

if he's town that thinks he's going to die, why say "you have to solve the game tomorrow" at me? he has cemented that he wants me dead if he flips green

like, if he told others that they have to kill me, that makes sense, but why say that to me

[Datisi]

i wanted to quote 2208

i'm drawing and listening to a story about a fanfic with monster tags, i'm not paying too much attention

[Datisi]

i am saying that if i am wrong on you, then you are the person whose perspective is most vital to figuring the game out. i think this is fairly simple to understand?

and i am saying that i'm going to die if you're green and nobody is actually going to give a shit about anything i say.

@skitt, i wish i could be 100% that he's scum. i'm feeling anxiety about the vote because if he does die today and turns out green, tomorrow is going to be pain and yeetlo is going to be difficult.

[Datisi]

if im wrong on you just give it your best shot that's all you can do

oh gee, it's almost like i don't enjoy being misexecuted!! who would've thought that's a trait that i have!!

[Datisi]

@skitt, i wish i could be 100% that he's scum. i'm feeling anxiety about the vote because if he does die today and turns out green, tomorrow is going to be pain and yeetlo is going to be difficult.

I mean sure but i still dont even know how you're reading bh ...

which part of voting him and saying his read on me is bullshit is unclear???

like just because i don't feel comfortable betting my own life on that flip doesn't mean i don't think he's most likely scum!!

if he flips green, then yeah i think it's you who was positioning me/bh and irrel/mena

i think bh is more likely

[Datisi]

Because in 2226 you're at once saying:

- his read on you is bs and you're voting him (implying scum)
- while also sayinf you dont think he's most likely scum

This is kinda incongruent and confusing

which part of "i think bh is more likely" is confusing to you

[Datisi]

The part where you're v worried that he's flipping town

this game is going to go from unfun to miserable for me if he flips town

why should i not be worried about that

[Datisi]

what is confusing you, mena?

[Datisi]

it's borderline ridiculous for you to think I would defuse a datisi-bloodhail t/t fight 2 hours before d1 deadline by hard shoving you out of nowhere with a bullshit argument I'm not bad at playing scum and you should know this.

why not?

i was going to comment that saving me/bh for tomorrow would be a possible play so i don't get what's so impossible about this from you

[Datisi]

Datisi would you be willing to vote for Ari?

i'd be willing to vote for her more than for you

i don't love the way her townread on me seemingly disappeared for ??? reasons as the collective read on me went down the toilet

but i still don't think it's likely she played d1 the way she did as scum, and if she's scum it's with someone who was widely townread so it makes sense to flip there first

[Datisi]

saving mena for later is also a possible play and requires much less taking obvious noticeable action

mena is going to have a cooler head later and there won't be the imminent panic of the deadline

like i'm not saying it lockscums her but i can definitely see the idea because deadline panic is a powerful tool

[Datisi]

Datisi would you be willing to vote for Ari?

i want bloodhail out

i'll vote her if she's on y-1 and there's 10 minutes to deadline

[Datisi]

okay fucking stop this right now

ah let's not

[Datisi]

Datisi, tell me that this is not incredibly reminiscent of the most recent case where I was right on ari being scum?

you will be disappointed to know that i was not exactly reading closely enough

[Datisi]

datisi's response was to feed on mena's worst impulses and say he thinks i'm actually scum.

sometimes i wonder in what language am i typing my posts in this game.

[Datisi]

i just thought of a really funny post that mena wrote in the first coalition game and it is very fitting right now

[Datisi]

Am I speaking English? Do the words coming out of my mouth have meaning? Is everyone else just seeing

ooble garble flurgle gooble

and replying with broadly being same and my brain is translating the

garble eeble flagooble garble

into words in English and that’s why everything sounds so fucking insane?

[Datisi]

like at this point i don't know how me saying "i can see how ari would have scum!motivation for pushing mena here and i would vote her prior to mena, but i also still think her d1 play doesn't make sense if scum" translates to "i think ari is scum" but what the fuck do i know anymore

[Datisi]

i was wheezing when i first read that post and this situation reminded me of it

idk, something something drawn from memory

[Datisi]

and the other one looks like somebody who is seeing a way out

you mean like when 3-4 people said they'd want to vote mena and one (1) person said they would actually vote you and i went "idk i still don't think mena's scum"?

yep, you got me, i was trying to get out of a 1v1

[Datisi]

and when asked directly if i'm gonna vote you, i said i was not gonna move from bloodhail

[Datisi]

mena is town

the fact that skitter is suddenly getting suspicious of him when i feel like his reactions have been townie is not giving good feels

glad to see ari is ignoring me wrt "getting out of the 1v1" nonsense

really think the two of them should be looked at very closely tomorrow, don't just brainlessly yeet bh

[Datisi]

you look like you are open to moving to me instead

"i won't vote ari unless i am forced to" = open to moving to ari

jesus fucking christ

[Datisi]

Datisi would you be willing to vote for Ari?

i want bloodhail out

i'll vote her if she's on y-1 and there's 10 minutes to deadline

yep, this is someone who sure is strategically trying to pivot onto ari

and at a time where she had one (1) other vote

[Datisi]

you look like you are open to moving to me instead

and even if i were doing that

what benefit is there

mena is one, who are the other 3 votes needed to get you through

[Datisi]

i just wrote a toxic post but i've deleted it

[Datisi]

pedit dats if i understand the post above right, you're saying you would vote ari at e1 if there was a wagon at her, no?

is the "and 10 minutes till deadline" not clear enough?

[Datisi]

my god this fucking game

release me from this hell

[Datisi]

You would want bh->skitt tomorrow I assume?

gun-to-head, yes, but take a very close look at skitt and ari because at this point i think the way they keep "misunderstanding" my posts has to be deliberate

but also it's midnight i'm tired

[Datisi]

i will self hammer in some ~half an hour if i'm not dead by then

where'd skitter go

[Datisi]

save the dragons, you magnificent bastard