Micro 1075: The Coalition of Imaginary Creatures (Game over)

[Umlaut]

HEAL: Umlaut

hold on, i need to harness this psychic energy while it's still in my body



yes... yes, i see it....

the scumteam is keychain and delta

I believe in you!
VOTE: Keychain

[Umlaut]

Actually
HEAL: northsidegal too, I like the intro

[Umlaut]

So, I think I've come up with a way to break this setup.

We don't select a coalition D1, and when lilith goes to end the day she'll get confused by the fact that there is no instruction for when no coalition is formed and just reveal the scumteam.

Let's not and say we didn't!

HEAL: Dunnstral I like this aggressive coalition building

Me too.

HEAL: Dunnstral
UNVOTE: Keychain

I can't read Northside's #25. I'm finding this bit about psychic whatevers a bit odd.

This feels off to me somehow, just how seriously are you taking NSG's posts?

I don't consider me putting somebody into the coalition to be me betting the game that they are town. I think being aggressive and pushing a coalition early based on gut feeling is more likely to be successful than dragging it on and allowing mafia to influence things. Also taking more time on day 1 when we have no info is not likely to be helpful to us.

This is goodposting

Oh damn your third eye is right, somehow I didn't connect the psychicness of you arriving early to your psychic reads and just assumed you were going to come in with psychic reads regardless, so that would indeed be an amazing coincidence. This all makes sense now, carry on

I can't really explain why but this response to NSG's explanation feels town to me.

UNVOTE: Dunnstral
VOTE: Northsidegal

It's all a bit deliberately unhelpful, and in #39 it's not clear which way round the reads go.
I'd encourage people to remove Northside from their coalition vote, even if they disagree with the limvote.

Bad vote, bad idea.

VOTE: Delta
Not that we're eliminating yet, but this read on north seems to be based more on her being difficult to understand than anything else which feels like someone scraping for a reason. If it was just the vote that would be fine since votes are basically symbolic right now, but also pushing to remove her from coalitions makes it seem like it's more serious.

I like this for town because it's pretty much where my head was on Delta right before reading it.

HEAL: Keychain
VOTE: Delta

[Umlaut]

it was a prepared post

Why would it being a prepared post suggest a specific alignment? If anything, the point of a prepared post would be to make the post AI neutral regardless and it would defeat the point to change it based on the role you actually drew.

this is a really bad post

It is, actually. What do you think of Delta's reply to it?

[Umlaut]

Actually the response doesn't have the problem I thought it did. I didn't notice Delta had already said in 53 that they were suspicious of NSG specifically for making what they thought was a prepared post, so I thought 57 was bad because I thought it was misrepping Delta a bit (I remembered him only was saying the prepared post was not a reason for a townread) and then I thought 58 was bad because it was sort of... accepting the misrep? But it wasn't a misrep at all, that's really the reason you're giving for being suspicious of NSG, so... idk.

NSG, what is it that you find bad about 57? The problem I thought I saw with it isn't actually there.

[Umlaut]

delta.... that's not what i'm saying?? im not sure how you're taking it that way. i feel like your vote on nsg feels like a stretch, and it's based on "not contributing" when they have in fact been taking part in discussion and the stupid psychic thing, when it's pretty normal to make jokes earlygame.

anyways policy tr for delta i'll probably revoke this later but he's just been generally towny so i might not

This is a pretty towny progression on patch's part, I think.

[Umlaut]

delta.... that's not what i'm saying?? im not sure how you're taking it that way. i feel like your vote on nsg feels like a stretch, and it's based on "not contributing" when they have in fact been taking part in discussion and the stupid psychic thing, when it's pretty normal to make jokes earlygame.

anyways policy tr for delta i'll probably revoke this later but he's just been generally towny so i might not

This is a pretty towny progression on patch's part, I think.

What progression?

Arguing a bunch with Delta and saying his arguments against NSG make no sense, and then saying he's town. It seems like Patch is just giving their thoughts instead of trying to push some specific position or idea.

[Umlaut]

I mean it's not a hard definite read on Patch, you'll notice I didn't coalition them, it's just something that makes me lean that way. Agree to disagree on whether it's AI at all.

[Umlaut]

Arguing a bunch with Delta and saying his arguments against NSG make no sense, and then saying he's town. It seems like Patch is just giving their thoughts instead of trying to push some specific position or idea.

I guess I don't find this particularly AI personally - it could also be that Delta is one of the players patch is familiar with here so it's easier to engage with him over his arguments but separately from whatever read they end up with.

↑ replying to this

[Umlaut]

I think that they don't think that other people will agree to put them into the coalition for their contributions so far, and simply put in who they thought was town - and I agree with their thoughts on who is town

Wouldn't a better solution to this as town be for them to just make more contributions, rather than opening with the assumption they won't be townread?

[Umlaut]

Spoiler: Long catchup

I think it's NAI, but dropping the 'Newbtown' as a qualified when discussing my play will only serve to delegitimise reads and arguments that I develop further down the line. I'd appreciate you recanting and reconsidering the wording.

UNVOTE: Delta
Town response to a townread (this is one of my pet tells)

Representative careful posts [by patchwork]. Overall, you seem hesitant to commit to anything. There's a lot of questioning and not a lot of actual explanation. There's a lot of emphasis on trying to figure things out and not a lot on sharing your conclusions.

The thing is that scum who aren't immediately confident in their scumgame (either because they're playing with new people or because they've never played before) are slightly more likely to play this way. The longer someone has been in a meta, the less this tell matters.

I can buy this as a legit read but I think this is a very weak tell at best. Low confidence and hesitance to give conclusions can come from town just as easily. Or, like, nearly as easily anyway.

HURT: Keychain

I am a bit concerned that I don't like some of your posts and I feel better about patchwork and KawaiiKame than I do about you right now. I am reading KawaiiKame's posts differently than you are (they should explain what they are doing though)

^chainsaw post.

This on the other hand is a bad read

It's ridiculous that you're complaining that I 'drag people out of RVS'. RVS is a useless stage that the scumteam will seek to prolong as long as possible.

The post I SR'd you for intimates that I oughtn't be trying to game-solve early in the game which is absolute tosh.

I agree about RVS but I disagree that that's what patch was doing.

for me personally it always puts me in an uncomfortable position when i'm playing with players for whom i have no expectations of their ability to play scum (i.e. alts or newer players).

i also find it helpful to think about this game in terms of whom to exclude, rather than to include. to repeat myself, outrageous things don't immediately make someone scum, but i do genuinely think that kame's behavior so far gives a decent argument for exclusion. in 108, kame claims to have read the entire game up to that point, come to townread the people they healed, and already have decided that they're not going to get in the coalition that eventually passes. bluntly, even if this is true, i find it strange that kame would have done all that and not actually commented on anything while reading through

I like this post, kind of how I was feeling about them too though I was waiting to see more from them first.

Overall, Dunn doesn't seem like he's pushing a narrative or playing with an agenda, and while he's certainly capable of faking this as scum (or used to be) I think this is page 3 town.

I like how Bingle is not taking a one-sided position on Dunn, I may have misread the above "chainsaw post" as a more serious scumread than it actually was.

If I were to make a coalition right now it'd be me, delta, dunn, nsg, umlaut. Yes, I'm aware that this is not the 5 people I think are towniest.

Don't really understand this... I can think of reasons why you would pick a coalition other than the five towniest people but I don't know if they're the reasons you have.

i took what you said as criticism lol not like "omg this is what people want me to do so i am doing it now"

As an aside, trying to change your playstyle to satisfy the expectations of others is likely to cripple your scumhunting effectiveness and not worth the time. Do what you need to do to find scum.

it's not supposed to satisfy you, you pointed out i was being conservative (no, not in the republican way) when i was unaware of that so i went ahead and tried to chaneg that, idk how youre reading it that way

This feels genuine to me.

@umlaut, what is your read on kame?

I was going to say "I don't have much read on Kame, could be scum but need to see more" but after looking closer at what's there I actually think they're looking kind of scummy to me. 120 and 123 are both unpleasantly conciliatory and the other posts are really saying nothing about the game state... 108 in particular seems to be responding to a question about their coalition picks by justifying

why they are playing this way

instead of explaining why those people are town.

HURT: Umlaut
More because I'm feeling an absence atm than anything else.

Rude!

(I get it but it's annoying to take one night off Mafia and see people react this way)

Honestly after the coalition phase, if you continue like this I'll advocate for a policy lim on the basis that this play is anti-town and unreadable. At least then I'll be able to focus without any noise and scumhunt.

I'm always happy to policy N_M but realistically we are probably limming out from the coalition if it fails.

(Also the wording here is funny but I'll worry about that later)

[Umlaut]

If I have to do a riddle every time they make a point or cast a vote, then I'm going to policy lim them purely for being unreadable. I can't scumhunt with this utterly opaque anti-town shitposting in my face.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Believe it or not, you get used to it.

This is a big improvement over the "posting only to quickhammer" N_M of a few years ago.

[Umlaut]

UNVOTE: Deltabreedy again since my other unvote was behind spoiler tags

[Umlaut]

Still like everyone in my coalition for town overall (NSG, Keychain, Dunnstral), maybe slipping a bit on Dunnstral out of what-have-you-done-for-me-lately.

Also like Delta for town now, as much as he doesn't want "newb" reads I think his read on NSG early on makes more sense from that perspective.

Bingle and patchwork are meh, Kame is scummy, and who can tell about N_M.

HEAL: Deltabreedy

Pedit:

@226 I think of "chainsaw" as being the name of a scumtell so I thought you were scumreading Dunnstral for that post when I read it. Seeing that that's not what you meant, I don't have a problem with the post.

[Umlaut]

Actually Bingle is a bit better than Dunnstral overall

HURT: Dunnstral
HEAL: Bingle

[Umlaut]

to angleshoot this a little bit, assuming that NM is telling the truth about just randomly remembering, i imagine that if he had posted in the mafia PT before the game started he probably would have realized the game had started earlier. something to think about. (hopefully site rules haven't been updated to the point where i can't say this)

also, congrats on passing keychain!

Why is this? Either way he got the PM and dismissed it.

[Umlaut]

why would I address it? I think you generally have good reads. If you're town I think you'll probably correct yourself over time without me needing to try and convince you. If you're scum you're scum. what else is there to say except it would be hilarious if you were town and eliminated me D1? That's what I've mostly been thinking about your read which isn't game productive

i have serious doubts that this would be your true opinion / behavior if you were town.

maybe

in another setup where there was just a d1 elimination and you assumed that i wouldn't push super hard for you to be it, sure. but in this setup particularly, if you are town, it is actually fairly important for other townies to recognize as such. i do not think that this is a fact which escapes you. i even went so far as to say that "i will never be okay with a coalition passing which includes keychain".

maybe i just have some complex, but if someone said that about me, i would at least

ask them

about it. it seems like the kind of thing that at least needs to be addressed, because i

know for a fact

that i'm town, and someone that i know being town being included in the coalition makes the game a lot easier for me. what i wouldn't do is just do nothing, expecting them to eventually change their mind. i

especially

wouldn't do that if i had a large amount of faith in their reads. if that were the case, i think that i would be even more likely to say something, because someone who should be getting something right is making a mistake.

This sort of seems like you're assuming Keychain sees the game the same way you do. I tend to agree with her that directly arguing I'm town is typically a waste of time.

[Umlaut]

- the most obvious point to me that I'm posting off the cuff far more than I'd normally be comfortable with in a game with players I'm familiar with

I'm getting this flow of consciousness feel with you which is why I'm town reading you I feel

First okay post from Kawaii

[Umlaut]

I feel like Delta/Eira is spewed town here

[Umlaut]

most players use their egosearch when navigating the site. NM says that he was busy when he got the

day start

PM, and then from there forgot about the game. assuming he were scum, i would imagine that he would have already have posted in the mafia PT, and thus he wouldn't have gone on to forget about the game, because i imagine that there would be some activity in the mafia PT that would catch his attention and remind him of the game. on the other hand, if he were town and didn't have any PT ego'd, there would be nothing like that to remind him of the game.

Yeah, I guess you're right. Could be possible he didn't bother to post in it or something, but worth thinking about though I agree it's kind of angleshooty.

Really not a fan of what Bingle is doing with trying to game the coalition mechanic, in general I'm suspicious of plans more complicated than "find the scum and launch them" (or in this case "find the town and coalition them"), but I think it's NAI

[Umlaut]

Umlaut I desperately want you to be town since you're in sync with my thoughts on everything except bingle but that also makes it so hard to read you

Where are you on Bingle right now?

[Umlaut]

Where are you on Bingle right now?

Leaning scum - I feel like he has good posts but what feels like most of them are generic helpfulness/coaching and setup discussion, I associate too much of that with scum

A lot of them are that, but Bingle is also the top poster in the game. If you take away the kind of content you're talking about, what's left is still pretty good I think. I found 57, 124, 139 for example to be good while also being about forming reads and advancing the game. I also think the read on Kame in 154, while I disagree with it, is not the sort of thing scum makes up (unless the team is exactly Bingle/KK maybe, but on balance still towny), and the questioning me for clarification in 226 just felt... like a real question, which I suppose it could be but I feel like scum wouldn't care so much to ask as long as I'm townreading them on net.

NSG, what is it that you find bad about 57? The problem I thought I saw with it isn't actually there.

Noticed while reviewing that this was never answered.

[Umlaut]

Honestly I'm realizing I have very little room for wiggle in my coalition right now. I could maybe sub in Dunnstral for someone else if that's what it takes to pass one but despite what I thought was a towny entrance they haven't really done enough for me to be confident in them. I really don't see a universe where N_M or Kame ends up in there.

I could maybe be talked into patch, but I actually feel really good about who's in there now so I'm not looking to be talked into anyone.

[Umlaut]

Like I know I should probably be doing something better than just sitting on my heals but I think NSG/Keychain/Eira are all obvtown and Bingle is, if not obvtown, the best candidate we have.

[Umlaut]

Keychain

Unpack this for me?

I don't know how to argue it to anyone else because a lot of it is just the number of times I've been nodding along with what she says in this game thinking "Yes, that's right." If you haven't had the same experience with her then I don't know if I can get you to read her the same way. Examples:

VOTE: Delta
Not that we're eliminating yet, but this read on north seems to be based more on her being difficult to understand than anything else which feels like someone scraping for a reason. If it was just the vote that would be fine since votes are basically symbolic right now, but also pushing to remove her from coalitions makes it seem like it's more serious.

Also hi patch! I like your flag, though I haven't seen that specific one before and had to look it up.

This post came at exactly the point in the thread where I was thinking the same thing about Delta for pretty much exactly the same reasons.

I'm also a bit concerned that you don't like some of my posts! How are you reading KawaiiKame's posts differently? In looking through their completed games I didn't see any scum rolls, so their pop in behaviour seems pretty consistent with newscum "oh no I don't know how to pretend to be engaged". Unless I'm mistaken about their experience level, in which case someone feel free to correct me.

Same read on Kame for same reasons, at a point where this was not really a consensus read.

I think it's NAI, but dropping the 'Newbtown' as a qualified when discussing my play will only serve to delegitimise reads and arguments that I develop further down the line. I'd appreciate you recanting and reconsidering the wording.

big fan of this response feels like a very town thing to be concerned about, not sure scum would immediately identify that as an issue. plus generally agreeing with the Bingle analysis on Delta there HEAL: Deltabreedy

This is one of my own favorite tells and is responding to the same post that started making me reconsider Delta.

(I get it but it's annoying to take one night off Mafia and see people react this way)

Yeah that's fair, I didn't really take the time to check how long it had been and think about timezones etc before making that comment so it was definitely based entirely on my feeling.

Maybe self-centered of me but I think this immediate backing down reflects Keychain really thinking about my slot instead of looking for a reason to push me. I think my response was something that could just as easily be framed either way and I don't think Keychain had any real scum motive to back down like that.

[Umlaut]

Like I know I should probably be doing something better than just sitting on my heals but I think NSG/Keychain/Eira are all obvtown and Bingle is, if not obvtown, the best candidate we have.

best buds 4 life unless you're scum in which case... pocketed 4 life. but also N_M over Bingle

Can you respond to my 354 re. Bingle?

[Umlaut]

I agree he has good posts though I'm not sure they outweigh the fluff that feels more empty to me - people naturally have different posting rates, it's more of a percentage thing, and by percentage I mean how much I feel like it's one or the other because I haven't counted. 226 is certainly one of those good posts. 57 is one of the posts I was thinking of more as generic helpfulness with not much personal opinion though.

Bingle's latests posts going through feasible scumteams exhaustively (from their point of view) doesn't strike you as a towny level of effort?

[Umlaut]

How badly do you think Bingle needs to be in a coalition Umlaut?

Bingle is who I'm most willing to compromise on.

How badly do you want N_M in there? I will pretty much never be comfortable with them as town, I've seen too many of their scum games.

[Umlaut]

@mod v/la for weekend

Not going to be totally gone since I know we need to coalesce soon, will be sort of passively keeping up and can answer questions etc

[Umlaut]

Too short on time to think about this game in depth tonight but later on definitely want to think about Bingle's patchwork read, and also why Umlaut and Bingle's respective familiarity with N_M led them to opposite conclusions on his towniness

Tbh Bingle is changing my mind on N_M, I may be willing to coalition them after all.

[Umlaut]

Have some time today after all. We really need to get a coalition through soon.

Coalition votes, inverted

northsidegal:

8 (Keychain, patchwork, KawaiiKame, Not_Mafia, northsidegal, Eiralox, Umlaut, Dunnstral)

Eiralox:

8 (Keychain, patchwork, KawaiiKame, Not_Mafia, northsidegal, Eiralox, Umlaut, Dunnstral)

Keychain:

5 (Keychain, KawaiiKame, Not_Mafia, Eiralox, Umlaut)

Umlaut:

4 (Keychain, KawaiiKame, Umlaut, Dunnstral)

patchwork:

3 (patchwork, Not_Mafia, Eiralox)

Bingle:

3 (patchwork, Umlaut, Dunnstral)

Not_Mafia:

2 (Not_Mafia, Eiralox)

Dunnstral:

2 (KawaiiKame, Dunnstral)

KawaiiKame:

0 ()

Everyone seems to still agree that NSG and Eira are definitely in, and Kame is definitely out. So we have six players left to consider. Probably really five since I don't think anyone not currently healing Dunn is really interested in doing so.

I'd appreciate if everyone can list their favorite for town who they aren't currently voting. For me that's N_M at the moment (surprised as I am to see myself write that).

[Umlaut]

Eira, if a wizard told you someone on your current preferred coalition was scum, who would you swap in/out to try and fix it?

[Umlaut]

HURT: Bingle
HEAL: Not_Mafia

I still think you're town, Bingle, but I don't think I can sell that to anyone who doesn't already believe it. This has a better chance of actually passing.

[Umlaut]

I asked Bingle in our PT and they assured me I'm town.

So NSG would be out in that case, but who would be in?

[Umlaut]

Normally I'm pretty eh about being scumread but I really don't get what your problem is with me here.

[Umlaut]

I like Keychain for town more than I do patchwork and the coalition including Keychain is already at 3/5. Can we just put this through?

[Umlaut]

I don't like how Bingle and Umlaut have been acting. The sudden N_M heal? Bingle EXCLUDING THEMSELF over N_M, Umlaut doing the same?

This rush Umlaut suddenly has for this spesific coalition after Bingle has it?

Both of them reek like having foreknowledge that this coalition fails. Especialy Umlaut, already sharpening teeth for the elim.
And now that nsg is on board, with the pivot on trusting umlaut and keychain......

I actually think this coalition has a good chance of winning because everyone on it looks pretty town to me, and I have no idea what I will do next if it fails. What do you mean sharpening teeth for the elim?

I'm trying to rush because we are already nearly two days past the point where I would have liked to have a coalition finalized.

[Umlaut]

I'm pretty much taking as given that NSG is town so I don't think much of it. What makes you suspect her?

[Umlaut]

Inverted vote count

(number of players healing each player)

Eiralox:

9 (Keychain, patchwork, KawaiiKame, Not_Mafia, northsidegal, Eiralox, Umlaut, Dunnstral, Bingle)

northsidegal:

8 (Keychain, patchwork, KawaiiKame, Not_Mafia, northsidegal, Umlaut, Dunnstral, Bingle)

Keychain:

7 (Keychain, KawaiiKame, Not_Mafia, northsidegal, Eiralox, Umlaut, Bingle)

Umlaut:

7 (Keychain, KawaiiKame, northsidegal, Eiralox, Umlaut, Dunnstral, Bingle)

Not_Mafia:

5 (Keychain, patchwork, Not_Mafia, Eiralox, Umlaut)

patchwork:

3 (patchwork, Not_Mafia, Eiralox)

Dunnstral:

2 (KawaiiKame, Dunnstral)

Bingle:

1 (Dunnstral)

KawaiiKame:

0 ()

I don't know if these are useful to anyone but I already made it so here it is.

[Umlaut]

I actually think this coalition has a good chance of winning because everyone on it looks pretty town to me, and I have no idea what I will do next if it fails.

468

Okay, sure, so what thoughts do you actually have on that matter? How would you change it to take advantage of that?

[Umlaut]

oh, there's your answer.

[Umlaut]

Gonna say I'm leaning mafia on KawaiiKame too

But you want to coalition them?

[Umlaut]

Here is my proposal: We all unvote the current coalition and do the opposite of where we are headed right now.

Not_Mafia, patchwork, Dunnstral, Bingle, KawaiiKame coalition. Exclude Eiralox, northsidegal, Keychain. Umlaut.

Honestly this is just such an absurd suggestion that I can't decide if scum!Dunnstral is quite this blatant, but maybe they are when they're a hammer away from insta-losing

[Umlaut]

Happy scumday Dunn! if you're town just hammer the coalition mate, coalition failing does not mean town loss so there is no need to pull out the galaxy brain moves here which leave us in the shit if they fail

and even if your flipping idea gave us a perfect coalition somehow while excluding Eira, you're not going to get enough support for it in time because scum obvs won't vote for it and so you'll need to convince 4 full townies to agree with you asap. And for the info produced by a failing coalition (since I still think it's very optimistic to assume we'll win the game on this) I'd rather know there's scum amongst relatively active+widely townread players who are also in the NK pool than the inverse.

Is this statement ("it's very optimistic to assume we'll win the game on this") about this coalition in particular or about any coalition at all?

[Umlaut]

Fuck

I guess it's N_M? But want to reread before committing because Bingle sold me pretty well on their being town.

[Umlaut]

It isn't me, if I were scum I wouldn't have bothered trying to get myself into the coalition, I would have boosted my partner

Why not / why can't you do both?

I think that's a bad argument against it being you. But also I'm not seeing much argument for it being you in the first place either.

The argument is just that they're the one I was least confident in in the first place.

[Umlaut]

don't have time to reread because i've gotten a lot more busy recently so i'm just going to hammer itHURT: patchwork, northsidegal, eiralox, not_mafia HEAL: keychain, northsidegal, eiralox, umlaut, not_mafia

Hmmmm

[Umlaut]

N_M, what was your most recent scum game where you played from the start? I'm trying to check something.

[Umlaut]

Never mind, I think I found it.

to angleshoot this a little bit, assuming that NM is telling the truth about just randomly remembering, i imagine that if he had posted in the mafia PT before the game started he probably would have realized the game had started earlier. something to think about. (hopefully site rules haven't been updated to the point where i can't say this)

While reviewing NSG I was reminded of this which I had kind of forgotten and honestly I think it's pretty compelling. Took a look at a few of N_M's recent games to see if it pans out.

Micro 1063 - Town; first post ~59 hours after game start.
Mini Normal 2289 - Town; first post ~31 hours after game start.
Open 868 - Town; first post ~13 hours after game start.
Open 871 - Mafia; first post ~2 hours after game start.

Yeah, I think this is actually pretty solid argument that N_M is town. I'd like it better if I could find more than one recent scum game of N_M's but for as far as this goes it's pretty solid evidence that they notice sooner when their scum games start.

[Umlaut]

VOTE: northsidegal I guess

Someone has pocketed me hard and I think NSG is more capable/experienced to pull that off.

[Umlaut]

UNVOTE: northsidegal

why would she clear N_M like that though

[Umlaut]

I had a dream last night that Eiralox and N_M were scum together but I'm just going to do my best to repress it.

[Umlaut]

VOTE: NSG

We're actually in good shape if we assume Eira and N_M are town (which I do), we are guaranteed to get at least one scum just by going through {me, Keychain, NSG}. I want to start here but could live with a Keychain elim.

[Umlaut]

I don't like how slow this is with less than two days left.

Her vanishing second half of the day is pointing more to scum (though I'm sure she's improved from the days where she used to hard lurk as scum), but if she's alive and town D2 she probably benefits town a lot. So there's a decent chance she gets resolved overnight by mafia fearing her since all players in the coalition (except potentially N_M?) would probably have reason to, so I'd rather not waste the elimination on her. Is the expanded version of that stance.

I really doubt anyone in coalition gets resolved by mafia if there is any doubt they're town. Join me on NSG?

[Umlaut]

Umlaut I have this awful feeling you're going to stab me in the back at some point but sure, I don't have a better plan VOTE: northsidegal

I mean yes if NSG flips green I am most definitely going to want to yeet you tomorrow, I pretty much said that already in 667.

[Umlaut]

Maybe I'm the one being pocketed here

[Umlaut]

Tinfoil: Eira/Keychain
Yeah I'm probably wrong on this but

Are you going to make a vote?

[Umlaut]

What's your plan for deciding, then?

[Umlaut]

18 hours left. Everyone really needs to be voting.

I might not be around for the last hour of the day if it runs that long, but will be able to check in as late as 17:30 UTC or so. All the same I'd prefer we not cut it that close.

[Umlaut]

@mod any chance of a deadline extension while waiting for KawaiiKame's replacement?

[Umlaut]

Going to be hard to make a launch happen without everyone here

[Umlaut]

I’ll be here to compromise on key in ~2 hours if we can’t get an nsg lim.

I'm hoping we get that extension but I will be too.

[Umlaut]

I was here and about to change my vote but with patch voting I'm going to just trust in N_M to keep his word here. I might not have another chance to check in and don't want to make things even messier by moving.

[Umlaut]

VOTE: Keychain

If I die, patch is scum.

Why did Bingle say this? Don't want to get into the wifom about whether patch would/wouldn't kill there after he did, just asking why Bingle thought it in the first place.

[Umlaut]

this was predictable as hell and fuckin sucks because I don't know which one of you is the mafia here which is going to significantly weaken my defense Leaning heavily to Um, with a dodgy af transition through the game to being so convinced N_M was town he completely removed miltank as an option for scum in 667 which made it easy for him to get north eliminated and... yeah all the stuff I already said in 677 VOTE: Umlaut

Honestly if I were scum N_M would be the path-of-least-resistance launch there, I don't think anyone was really hard townreading him and scum!me gains nothing from cutting people out of the PoE pool as I did in 652 and 667.

[Umlaut]

I think it likely that there is mafia between penguinpower and patchwork

Could be, but I'm interested in why you think it.

[Umlaut]

Happy birthday, Keychain! Hope the broken ankle doesn't ruin it for you :/

There's nothing I really want to do today except wait for everyone to say their piece and then flip Keychain.

[Umlaut]

Could be, but I'm interested in why you think it.

cool - you apparently do too?

I apparently do what, think scum is probably in patchwork/you?

I mean I do, just because most everyone else looks towny to me. Dunn is a possibility but I liked them early for town — worst thing about them is they've been relatively low activity but what's there has been fine.

[Umlaut]

Sorry to see Keychain go.

[Umlaut]

o/

[Umlaut]

V OTECOUNT 2.002
E LIMINATION V OTES
P LAYER N AME	C URRENT V OTES
Keychain (2)	Not_Mafia, Umlaut
patchwork (0)	None
PenguinPower (0)	None
Not_Mafia (0)	None
Eiralox (0)	None
Umlaut (1)	Keychain
Dunnstral (0)	None
NOT VOTING: patchwork, PenguinPower, Eiralox, Dunnstral
With 7 alive, it takes 4 votes to eliminate. Deadline: (expired on 2023-04-15 17:00:00)
Notes:

@mod

Keychain should be replaced with Enchant in this VC

[Umlaut]

this game is fitting me like an old glove -- one and a half pages in and I already sort of want to kill dunn

Explain? I liked Dunn for town early on, that read has sort of decayed with time but they're still probably my favorite off-coalition.

[Umlaut]

This all just seems like Enchant trying to create a world where N_M can be scum so that there are two mislaunches available on-coalition instead of just one. Keychain seemed to be heading the same direction before replacing out.

[Umlaut]

I'm going to be AFK pretty much until deadline, btw. For off-coalition scum tomorrow look between patchwork/Penguin.

[Umlaut]

Welp

VOTE: Not_Mafia

I don't have a real case, I've found him pretty towny by N_M standards tbh, but will reread again later tonight and try to say something useful.

[Umlaut]

Hi, I'll get to this today/tonight, sorry for being awol

N_M is still scum

[Umlaut]

Patchwork too given that I'm still alive

[Umlaut]

Jason has to be town because scum would never forget in the course of listing possibilities that my Tracker shot is real and also must be stopped. An option like "block Mewtaph, shoot Mewtaph" would never be acceptable to scum!Kowah or scum!T3 because it means I get a guaranteed Tracker shot. Therefore if they wanted Mewtaph dead over me the only reasonable choice would be to block me and hope not to be jailed.

[Umlaut]

Jason has to be town because scum would never forget in the course of listing possibilities that my Tracker shot is real and also must be stopped. An option like "block Mewtaph, shoot Mewtaph" would never be acceptable to scum!Kowah or scum!T3 because it means I get a guaranteed Tracker shot. Therefore if they wanted Mewtaph dead over me the only reasonable choice would be to block me and hope not to be jailed.

Fuck, wrong thread

[Umlaut]

Hi I'm here, going to do some reading

[Umlaut]

There is really not much to pick at in N_M's posts, because there's not much there at all. He takes positions like "NSG is town" or "this wagon is good/bad" but doesn't really argue for them so I can't criticize the arguments. But there was this:

It isn't me, if I were scum I wouldn't have bothered trying to get myself into the coalition, I would have boosted my partner

...which Keychain called out on Day 1:

you were trying to get yourself into the coalition? when? It didn't appear to me that you cared but this post suggests you were paying pretty close attention, and especially gives the impression you were doing exactly what you say you weren't, in trying to get yourself in there.

...but no one ever really followed up on it. I think Keychain actually caught N_M right here, I probably should have followed up on it myself yesterday but I thought the meta argument for town!N_M was good enough that I just didn't even think about it again.

Assuming we yeet N_M today, hopefully this is enough to convince you I'm not scum with him. I was on track to be in the coalition all day, so N_M had no reason to push for himself to be on there too if I were his buddy.

[Umlaut]

How would y'all feel if we elim between me/penguin/dunn today? i'd rather lose the game now than elim umlaut today and still lose tomorrow. also for selfish reasons; if we correctly solve and elim the scum in penguin/dunn, it's just always umlaut tomorrow. i'd rather not be miselimmed thru paranoia in F3 if we correctly elim umlaut today, and i have a tendency to put my foot in my mouth so that's a strong possibility. if i get miselimmed today i can at least save face and pin it on patch

Please, please don't let me live just to 1v1 N_M again tomorrow.

[Umlaut]

I wasn't talking to you specifically, that was the general "you"

Just because no one believes it today doesn't mean they might not get talked into it tomorrow.

[Umlaut]

Prodge, don't have anything new to say. It's predictable that N_M just says my last post sucks without saying anything in particular is bad about it.

[Umlaut]

Gg

[Umlaut]

Don't think I've ever been mislimmed in lylo before

[Umlaut]

I really thought we were hosed after how d3 went but Penguin really pulled through by picking the right kill. Gg everyone, I enjoyed it a lot (though it wasn't easy being paired with Kawaii for half the game).

[Umlaut]

Will release PTs if mafia team has no redactions

No redactions, I always assume what I write will eventually be public.