Micro 576 - Word Sneak Mafia 2: Even Sneakier! (Game Over)

[Halos and Horns]

VOTE: Postie
She needs to be under a large amount of pressure this entire game.
Leggo.
-Angel

[Halos and Horns]

Also - and I'm probably going to be RVS voted for saying this - you have no idea how relieved I am to be town.

Don't believe you don't believe you don't believe you don't believe you don't believe you.

Have I mentioned I don't believe you?

[Halos and Horns]

I like Aeronaut games as well by the way. Refraction mafia was great.

Glad to be in one again.

<3

[Halos and Horns]

Does anyone have a moment to talk about our lord and saviour, Annie Hastur?

[Halos and Horns]

All of the above has been RC, yes. Lilith has not posted at this time.
I'm not good at signing though
It's caused a series of unfortunate events when I've missed my signings in other games.

-Halo

[Halos and Horns]

Sorry guys I was busy chasing those two miniature guys from Night at the Museum, you know, the cowboy and the Roman.
Hey Aero, when are you gonna show up to drunk mafia huh!?

-Horns

[Halos and Horns]

Is that really necessary Aristo?

-Halo

[Halos and Horns]

Sorry, not you.
GL and his gigantic wall.
Really annoying and against the spirit of the game in my opinion.

-Halo

[Halos and Horns]

I thought about doing something like what gl did then realized it would be a dick move so I didn't

this.
this this this this this.

[Halos and Horns]

-Halo

[Halos and Horns]

Postie, I'm not sure what you could say to convince me that you're town but you need to start now.

-Halo

[Halos and Horns]

Ugh Postie you need to talk about reads and shit please.

[Halos and Horns]

-Halo

[Halos and Horns]

Why are you only trying to sort Postie, RC?

What's this implying?

[Halos and Horns]

Why are you only trying to sort Postie, RC?

What's this implying?

That I'd like to see your feelers on everyone else as well.

Unless there's a specific reason for the Postie focus. In which case, continue.

There is. We're having a discussion right now and basically RC's only talking about Postie.

-Horns

P.S. I enjoy the irony of our roles in this hydra.

[Halos and Horns]

urgh I'm really starting to think Postie's scum here. I've got a really horrible feeling in my gut reading her posts and I think it's because I'm remembering her from 558.

I really don't like the way Aristo is trying to push me away from her either. I feel like scum had so long in pregame and Postie in scumchat probably would have mentioned that I would be focused on her most of the game and asked her partner to help defend her, and also I get a strong feeling that Aristo's 'townslip' was contrived and planned. She's kind of disengaging in a way that really bugs me here as well.

-Halo

[Halos and Horns]

OK that's not a fair representation because I've said stuff about other people but yeah primary focus.

-Halo

[Halos and Horns]

To you, yes. I was responding to Lilith's "only talked about Postie" comment.
Why do you have an issue with me focusing on sorting one player first?

Urgh, I was just gonna say it was unlikely to have been a fake townslip because I talked to Aero via PM about whether posting wordsneak words in the PT was allowed, so it wasn't mentioned anywhere in the PT and therefore Aristophanes wouldn't have fakeslipped because he wouldn't know I'd know it was a slip, buuuuuuuuuuuuut... I've just realised the PT was never released. And even if it was he might have just assumed it would it would have been mentioned if it was mentioned to him.

Damn it.

Analyzing slips is sort of lazy and easy.
What are your thoughts on others? What about Aristo wrt the rest of his play?

[Halos and Horns]

-Halo

[Halos and Horns]

Does that explain where we're coming from on this?

-Horns

[Halos and Horns]

BNL:

Halo is Lilith, Horns is RC?

you'd think so, but no

Although you should be able to tell by whether the post is useless or not.

-Horns

[Halos and Horns]

K can I pleas just direct the cop and can we please just have the cop check Postie N1?
I'm probably not really ready to play with her at this point and I'm getting way too stuck on the slot. I'm not going to be able to play this game in any real capacity unless I can just ignore trying to sort her.
Sorry for this given that I said that you probably wouldn't get cop checked with me in the game but I just can't really play this game right now any other way.

[Halos and Horns]

-Halo

[Halos and Horns]

Urgh whatever I'm just going to forget about this for now.
I still don't like a bunch of what Aristo has done and Lilith doesn't either. We're gonna vote this.

VOTE: Aristophanes

[Halos and Horns]

Well, a lot of it is associatives with you who I am definitely reading as scum but Lilith thinks that I'm just being biased and is TRing you so idk.

But there's also the fact that the entire line of questioning as to why I was focused on reading you just bugs me. He asked the questions down the line but I never really feel like he got anything from the answer? like it didn't feel like he was trying to sort my slot, it felt like he was just asking the questions for their own sake and he didn't really get anything from the result.

We feel like he's trying to look like he's scumhunting more than that he's actually scumhunting.

[Halos and Horns]

I mean it ends with that makes a heck of a lot more sense but I don't really feel like anything was obtained from the line of questioning, and at the beginning it definitely felt like he was trying to scumhunt me but that sort of petered out and just went into questions with no purpose behinds the answers.

-Halo

[Halos and Horns]

I mean it ends with that makes a heck of a lot more sense but I don't really feel like anything was obtained from the line of questioning, and at the beginning it definitely felt like he was trying to scumhunt me but that sort of petered out and just went into questions with no purpose behinds the answers.

-Halo

The questions petered out because I realized it wasn't alignment indicative and dropped it.
You haven't done much else today yet so how else am I to sort you?

How about some reads from you guys?

I haven't talked about you and Postie yet so I'll do that first.

I started liking Postie with 63 and 71, I like how transparent that internal conflict is showing through and I feel like that vibes with a lot of my struggles in figuring out "is this something this person would do as town or scum?" I like how persistent she is in her questions, I feel like she is saying a lot of the things that I would. RC is the complete opposite in his read on her, and I get his paranoia to an extent, but for now I think she's probably town.

With you, I'm not really feeling any of that. I can't see any of your thought processes from your posts, and while I get that you realized RC pushing Postie isn't particularly telling of anything except his personal paranoia, the whole drop-off in engaging us felt... flat. You were just like, "okay bye, I'm done pushing you."

Not related but it's a bit unfair to ask us for our reads when you haven't really offered your own. Talk to me about your reads?

There's not much else to go on except for this recent BNL/Dav thing. I'm agreeing with most of what Dav says regarding his "hidden agenda," and I feel like BNL is just kind of nitpicking without really looking deeper.. But I also feel like Dav overreacted, and he said that his vote had a valid and detailed reason, which I don't totally agree with.

Also I didn't like this:

Also - and I'm probably going to be RVS voted for saying this - you have no idea how relieved I am to be town.

VOTE: postie

only interesting post so far, is this game real life?

It kind of feels like Cow was trying to bring the discussion back to page 1. There was definitely something to talk about by then, like commenting on our push on Postie. You've said he's pretty useless and I guess I'll give this some benefit of the doubt but I still don't like him.

-Horns

[Halos and Horns]

I really don't like this Davsto counterwagon.
I also suggested that the cop should check Postie and I was much more insistent about it.
Why is Davsto getting pressured for it while everyone's just writing me off?

-Halo

[Halos and Horns]

What about it says TvT to you?

-Horns

[Halos and Horns]

Neither me nor Lilith have liked anything Aristo have posted recently and we really don't like his claimed townread on Postie.

There's been some debate over the possibility of them cross bussing but either way we think that Aristo's Postie read is fake and his shpiel on the 'cop guiding' thing was awful.

Most of the questions he's asked this game have seemed largely uninteractive and non-alignment indicative and yadda i'm drunk I'm not explaining this shit the dude's scum I want some goddamn ice cream or snacks but we don't have fucking anything.
lynch it. and cop goes on postie, for reals.

[Halos and Horns]

like yadda yadda explain yourself big boy I even played a game of league and went like 17-0 with annie but her voice just kept grating me and I hate the laughter of children and ugh I'm tired and just want all children to be seen and not heard.

-Halo

[Halos and Horns]

aight so lemme tell you guys I was having this sweet dream where I was eating all these pancakes then I wake up one morning and all of a sudden fuckin bam elmira maple syrup festival and all these delicious ass fucking pancakes to eat so I"m like fuck yeah and it turns out that, sweet motherfucker I'm dreaming AGAIN so I wake up and it's just me in my crummy bed and like wow so i head out and all of a sudden i'm at a swagger fuckin party and nic cage and justin timberlake are there and i'm all like fuck yeah drop that bass then I WAKE THE FUCK UP AGAIN and jesus bam just my life. and I didn't even get pancakes.

so tl;dr I want some fucking pancakes and I don't care who I have to kill to get them so get outta my wya

[Halos and Horns]

aight so lemme tell you guys I was having this sweet dream where I was eating all these pancakes then I wake up one morning and all of a sudden fuckin bam elmira maple syrup festival and all these delicious ass fucking pancakes to eat so I"m like fuck yeah and it turns out that, sweet motherfucker I'm dreaming AGAIN so I wake up and it's just me in my crummy bed and like wow so i head out and all of a sudden i'm at a swagger fuckin party and nic cage and justin timberlake are there and i'm all like fuck yeah drop that bass then I WAKE THE FUCK UP AGAIN and jesus bam just my life. and I didn't even get pancakes.

so tl;dr I want some fucking pancakes and I don't care who I have to kill to get them so get outta my wya

[Halos and Horns]

Micro 558

Postie hard bussed Titus slot from the beginning of d1 then coasted to endgame.
Still urgh about it. To be fair, incredible inactivity, but still.

[Halos and Horns]

Jesus RC I leave you alone for one freaking night so I can work on J.R.R. Tolkein-themed world-building for my Dungeons and Dragons group and this is what I come back to, your drunkposts about pancakes?? What next, drunkposts about your dreams of a lab where Sigourney Weaver grew your Avatar and you saved James Cameron from the Pandora destruction machine?

But that self vote was worse than most OMGUS reads. How do you expect to see "where it goes" if you're going to hang onto it for like 20 posts

I wanted more pressure on Aristophanes. Priorities.

Your priorities change very rapidly

I know I'm townreading Postie but I kind of like this, the whole Flubber going against the grain thing.

I like bnl and gl for scum too

But that self vote was worse than most OMGUS reads. How do you expect to see "where it goes" if you're going to hang onto it for like 20 posts

Why bnl and GL?

[Halos and Horns]

Dav, why the seemingly sudden switch to not wanting Postie copped?

This is awful.
He asked for a cop on Postie like right at the beginning of the game. It's 10 pages later and his read changed.
How the hell is that a sudden switch?

Postie, Davsto is a scum counterwagon and you should know better than that.
Vote Aristo again. he is scum.
I'm actually thinking that I was right on page 2 when I called Postie/Aristo.
Or maybe Aristo/Lane. But we're lynching fucking Aristophanes today.
And seriously, cop checks Postie. The self vote and the vote hopping has been awful.

-Halo

[Halos and Horns]

Davsto's response was towny enough for me. I'm still conflicted on Aristophanes so I'll go back there, I guess.

VOTE: Aristophanes

I'm like 80% sure H&H is town so I would actually very much prefer if the cop checked me over anyone else tonight, if only to settle RC's paranoia. Paranoid/distracted RC is no good.

I'm sorry btw, if you're town.

[Halos and Horns]

We're not lynching Lane today.

[Halos and Horns]

I'm just going to make a quick compilation of my favourite quotes from J.R.R Tolkienn's The Lord of The Rings.

Mine, my own! My precious!
You shall not pass!
One does not simply walk into mordor.
BILBO BAGGINS. DO NOT TAKE ME FOR SOME CONJUROR OF CHEAP TRICKS.
And basically everything sam says.

No reason~

-Halo

I really don't like this Ari wagon, guys. What has he done that cannot possibly come from town? I just don't get strong scumvibes from him.

This is a horrible comment btw. This is like Fro99er&Mastin in fucking 1750 arguing why Hiplop was town. No.
Virtually anything can be said to come from town. That's not an argument.
This could easily be scum defending tbh.

[Halos and Horns]

That's terrible because Bulletproof is actually a decent wagon and Lane is complete nonsense.
Give one reason for scumreading Lane. I'll wait.

lol RC get out of here with that weak argument. If I'm not a fan of a wagon I'm gonna speak up about it.

Again, clarify your scumread on Lane.

[Halos and Horns]

Yeah, Lane's reads feel kind of weak.
But he's voting Aristo and I'm not about to look that gift horse in the mouth.

[Halos and Horns]

And how does this reaction seem real at all?

I think some people just have a flair for posting like that and Ari is probably one of them (off the top of my head, Performer is another one). His name itself is a reference to a semi-obscure Greek playwright, so you gotta figure he's probably a drama guy.

It's very easy for scum to push mislynch wagons on the basis of "fake tone", and I am getting the sense that that is what could be happening here.

No one is voting Aristophanes for his tone and your attempts to misrep and derail the Aristo wagon do not go unnoticed.

[Halos and Horns]

without any substantial input from TheCow

LOL.

[Halos and Horns]

yeah him not giving reads in his next post would be a scumclaim, I do agree with that

this looks a hell of a lot like coaching.

[Halos and Horns]

K enough of this.
Postie keeps pushing every single Aristo counterwagon and they all build up way too fast.
When Aristo hit L-1, you pulled your vote off. But when BNL hits L-1, you leave your vote on and just declare it?
so effing inconsistent and I HAVE NO IDEA WHY people are townreading your play in this game but I bet they don't know your scum play like I do.

VOTE: Postie

idc what Lilith says we're not unvoting this at this point.

[Halos and Horns]

-Halo

[Halos and Horns]

And holy hell Postie.
You've called out every person for L-1ing people before.
Aristo, the person you've been voting for half the day phase votes someone to L-1 and you don't call him out for it?
This is just getting sloppy now. You did better in 558 when you went all the way and just bussed your partners.
Though I guess you had a pregame talk where you said you'd vote for distance but not actually lynch each other.

I mean, that would insinuate I am scum as well, right?
Because unless she decided to buddy me all of a sudden I don't buy it really.

You two are scum.

[Halos and Horns]

I'd lynch you if I couldn't get her but Postie is far more dangerous and it's somewhat personal so there.

[Halos and Horns]

The fact that so many people here think Postie is town after all the crap she's done absolutely blows my mind.
You're townread Postie for stuff she has absolutely zero difficulty doing as scum.
You got lucky and had a cop result on her. you don't understand. I'm not losing this again like this.

And holy hell Postie.
You've called out every person for L-1ing people before.
Aristo, the person you've been voting for half the day phase votes someone to L-1 and you don't call him out for it?
This is just getting sloppy now. You did better in 558 when you went all the way and just bussed your partners.
Though I guess you had a pregame talk where you said you'd vote for distance but not actually lynch each other.

I mean, that would insinuate I am scum as well, right?
Because unless she decided to buddy me all of a sudden I don't buy it really.

You two are scum.

Meh, I love bussing and she already said she'd be willing to do the same earlier in the game, so I don't think this holds much water.

It's possible she is scum but I don't see it, and since I'm not either, I think it's pretty safe to say you are wrong here.

I feel like you've confbias'd your way to this read and are stuck in it now.

No, she absolutely would not be wiling to bus you when cop is checking her 99% chance.

When Aristo hit L-1, you pulled your vote off. But when BNL hits L-1, you leave your vote on and just declare it?

I'm null on Aristo and I'm scumreading BNL. That's why I pulled my vote off Aristo and not BNL.
If we lynch scum today and make sure the cop checks me tonight, I am confirmed town tomorrow if no one claims a guilty on me. There's no need to lynch me D1.

Okay, then vote Aristo.
What happens when cop makes an excuse about how you wanted to be checked so you were clearly town?
What happens if cop dies?

I'm not voting outside of the two of you, and since you are incredibly likely to not get lynched, my vote stays.

H&h, you don't care about Bnl's blatant snipping and shit misrepresentation?

i odn't give a shit what BnL's done at this point the scum are outed its plain as day at thispoint

[Halos and Horns]

OH MY GOD AGAIN ARISTOPHANES FAKES A DUMBTELL AND POSTIE CALLS IT OUT AND TRIES TO TOWNREAD HIM FOR IT.

THE ONLY PERSON ACTUALLY PUSHING THE ARISTO WAGON IS ME AND YOU HAVE BOTH CLAIMED TO TOWNREAD ME HOW CAN YOU SAY YOU ARE WARY OF THE ARISTO WAGON

YOU WERE PUSHING IT LIKE 12 HOURS AGO AND ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU'RE TOWNREADING HIM AND WARY OF THE WAGON

HOW ARE YOU NOT GETTING VOTED RN

[Halos and Horns]

AGAIN.

they did the EXACT SAME THING AT THE BEGINNING OF THE DAY TOO.

[Halos and Horns]

Also, town, don't forget that scum can share their lists, so they already have the upper hand on us with regards to the double vote.

Also, town, don't forget that scum can share their lists, so they already have the upper hand on us with regards to the double vote.

Nope. I was scum last game and we weren't allowed (we were forbidden from saying ANY of our words at ANY time).

Ugh Postie you need to talk about reads and shit please.

Well Aristophanes is probably town for not knowing about scum not being able to share wordsneak stuff in their PT. Unless Aero forgot to mention it to the scum, since he only decided on that rule last game after I questioned him about what the rule was. Doesn't seem like the kind of thing you'd forget to mention though.

AGAIN.

SAME SHIT.

[Halos and Horns]

Rc, come back to us. Look at the post. It's scummy as Fuck.

i don't give a shit if bnl has claimed sucm with his partner i am not voting him today.

The fact that so many people here think Postie is town after all the crap she's done absolutely blows my mind.
You're townread Postie for stuff she has absolutely zero difficulty doing as scum.
You got lucky and had a cop result on her. you don't understand. I'm not losing this again like this.

And holy hell Postie.
You've called out every person for L-1ing people before.
Aristo, the person you've been voting for half the day phase votes someone to L-1 and you don't call him out for it?
This is just getting sloppy now. You did better in 558 when you went all the way and just bussed your partners.
Though I guess you had a pregame talk where you said you'd vote for distance but not actually lynch each other.

I mean, that would insinuate I am scum as well, right?
Because unless she decided to buddy me all of a sudden I don't buy it really.

You two are scum.

Meh, I love bussing and she already said she'd be willing to do the same earlier in the game, so I don't think this holds much water.

It's possible she is scum but I don't see it, and since I'm not either, I think it's pretty safe to say you are wrong here.

I feel like you've confbias'd your way to this read and are stuck in it now.

No, she absolutely would not be wiling to bus you when cop is checking her 99% chance.

When Aristo hit L-1, you pulled your vote off. But when BNL hits L-1, you leave your vote on and just declare it?

I'm null on Aristo and I'm scumreading BNL. That's why I pulled my vote off Aristo and not BNL.
If we lynch scum today and make sure the cop checks me tonight, I am confirmed town tomorrow if no one claims a guilty on me. There's no need to lynch me D1.

Okay, then vote Aristo.
What happens when cop makes an excuse about how you wanted to be checked so you were clearly town?
What happens if cop dies?

I'm not voting outside of the two of you, and since you are incredibly likely to not get lynched, my vote stays.

H&h, you don't care about Bnl's blatant snipping and shit misrepresentation?

i odn't give a shit what BnL's done at this point the scum are outed its plain as day at thispoint

But I would be willing to bus her, as she stated she'd happily accept.
So this wouldn't be an issue.

Also, thanks for confirming that you are deathtunneling and aren't open to changing that or looking at anyone else.
I appreciate it.

Oh my ninjas and yelling. I'm gonna read these posts in a sec.

THEN BUS HER.
FUCKING VOTE HER RIGHT NOW I DARE YOU.

RC, what reason do you even have to think it was faked both times?

yeah cuz aristo just happened to make two gigantic fucking dumbtells and you just happened ot be hte n to point him out and say OH HES TOWN FOR THAT 2c

jfc lane jsut fucn vote her

[Halos and Horns]

Hey Dav! I know you're into Dr. Who so I wanted to ask what you think of that line "Would you like a jelly baby?" Like I hear it all the time but it seems really strange to me, is that a normal thing in England or what? What even is a Jelly Baby? Does it come from the world of J.R.R. Toklien?

I apologize for not being here in a while, RC has been flipping out about Postie and I haven't been able to log in until now but I think I've talked him down a bit and we're back to this: VOTE: Aristo. I'll talk about this in a sec but first--I'm not sure what all the fuss is about for the BNL wagon.

Alright... What I wanted to say before but refrained from saying is that I really didn't like Bnl's post AT ALL. I'm amazed at the audacity to snip that sentence and play it off as a major scum slip. I was hoping he was going to be watching for a reaction, but it appears he just dropped it off and left.

VOTE: bnl

Alright... What I wanted to say before but refrained from saying is that I really didn't like Bnl's post AT ALL. I'm amazed at the audacity to snip that sentence and play it off as a major scum slip. I was hoping he was going to be watching for a reaction, but it appears he just dropped it off and left.

VOTE: bnl

Yeah, I really disliked it as well.
I guess this is my first place to reread and reconsider my Readsllist...

VOTE: BNL

choo choo

Feeling much better about Lane
Agree that 349 is the scummiest post in the game

Can you all explain why you dislike it so much? Aristo's post was only 2 before BNL's, I don't think BNL was deliberately misrepping something that could easily be read in full by anyone who bothered to look. I've done this before (highlighting only the relevant parts as I see it) and people jumped all over me for it even though it came from town!me. I don't think it's BNL being scummy and his reaction seemed pretty calm. I also don't like how fast this wagon popped up. Fast wagons give me really icky feelings.

We do have a cop

Wow, I didn't realize this was an open setup for some reason.

Cool, I rescind that then!

This feels just as fake as everything else Aristo has said about this game that has supposedly been a "townslip." There is no way that he could have opened this thread up on page 1 without seeing the bright green "6 VTs, 1 Cop, and 2 goons," and we have been talking about the cop so much that even if he had missed it originally, I'd think he would at least check the setup to see why there was an assumption of there being a cop at all.

Okay holy shit it's past 4 am and I need to wake up early tomorrow because I'm a commuter and apparently my professor wants to have a make-up class for a day when she was at some doctor's appointment or something so that's going to suck.

pedit: thank you postie, and I think I am leaning town on you once again. Crap.

[Halos and Horns]

Also we definitely need a code for a post tracker or something because man we are bad at signing.

-Horns

[Halos and Horns]

Dav, why the seemingly sudden switch to not wanting Postie copped?

Because I've decided she's likely enough to be town for it to be a waste.

Sword never picked up the role pm... You, my fine fellow, are making assumptions that can be verified, yet you don't bother to check into them, you just throw them out there as truth. And that is scummy

isn't that how I always play? I tend to just let words flow out like rain into a paper cup.

Did you ever respond to postie's question about this? Why did you decide she was "likely enough to be town?"

[Halos and Horns]

Hey Dav! I know you're into Dr. Who so I wanted to ask what you think of that line "Would you like a jelly baby?" Like I hear it all the time but it seems really strange to me, is that a normal thing in England or what? What even is a Jelly Baby? Does it come from the world of J.R.R. Toklien?

A Jelly Baby is a type of sweet!



We don't tend to offer each other jelly babies all the time, though, that was just a weird Doctor Who thing, the earlier Doctors' "Fantastic!" or "Allons-y!"

They look like weird faceless potbellied candy dolls....

Dav, why the seemingly sudden switch to not wanting Postie copped?

Because I've decided she's likely enough to be town for it to be a waste.

Sword never picked up the role pm... You, my fine fellow, are making assumptions that can be verified, yet you don't bother to check into them, you just throw them out there as truth. And that is scummy

isn't that how I always play? I tend to just let words flow out like rain into a paper cup.

Did you ever respond to postie's question about this? Why did you decide she was "likely enough to be town?"

Please answer? Why did you decide to townread Postie?

Alright... What I wanted to say before but refrained from saying is that I really didn't like Bnl's post AT ALL. I'm amazed at the audacity to snip that sentence and play it off as a major scum slip. I was hoping he was going to be watching for a reaction, but it appears he just dropped it off and left.

VOTE: bnl

Alright... What I wanted to say before but refrained from saying is that I really didn't like Bnl's post AT ALL. I'm amazed at the audacity to snip that sentence and play it off as a major scum slip. I was hoping he was going to be watching for a reaction, but it appears he just dropped it off and left.

VOTE: bnl

Yeah, I really disliked it as well.
I guess this is my first place to reread and reconsider my Readsllist...

VOTE: BNL

choo choo

Feeling much better about Lane
Agree that 349 is the scummiest post in the game

Can you all explain why you dislike it so much? Aristo's post was only 2 before BNL's, I don't think BNL was deliberately misrepping something that could easily be read in full by anyone who bothered to look. I've done this before (highlighting only the relevant parts as I see it) and people jumped all over me for it even though it came from town!me. I don't think it's BNL being scummy and his reaction seemed pretty calm. I also don't like how fast this wagon popped up. Fast wagons give me really icky feelings.

Can I get answers from yall? (I know lane kind of explained it in his argument with BNL, but Aristo and GL have yet to respond)

[Halos and Horns]

You're phrasing it as if BNL used this snipped quote and insisted that Aristo was scum because of it, but he never used that quote to base a case or push on. He said he questioned what he thought was a contradiction because he didn't get the joke (and I don't think this is that unusual). I don't think it was a deliberate misrepresentation if he was taking Aristo's words at face value, and genuinely thought that Aristo was contradicting himself in the first half of the sentence and the second half was irrelevant. I'm pretty sure I've seen this before from people who don't live in English-dominated countries.

[Halos and Horns]

Alright so me and Lilith have been talking about this for a while and (thankfully) she's come around on Postie scum.
We are going to be voting there from now on unless required to switch to avoid a lynch on one of our townreads or a no lynch.

VOTE: Postie

The last few pages in particular have been so ridiculously scum!Postie that it blows my mind. Just a few examples

I like this wagon a lot.

Town!Postie every time I've seen her has been a lot shier from confrontation. In the original Slavic Music, when I started pushing on her she backed off really hard. In 1664 when we were fighting she kept trying to give me opportunities to show that I was town (which wasn't what I wanted at the time but we eventually townread each other so I digress.) I'm not quite sure what her scum response to pressure would be but this is absolutely not what I've seen from her as town. And I don't mean to portray her as a wallflower but this response is just incredibly jarring.

When you've called 5 out of 9 people scum, I expect you to try to sort them so there's some kind of progression in your reads. It looks like you're trying to keep your options as open as possible so you can just lynch whoever.

Like this is just so incredibly weak and nitpicky that it doesn't make any sense.

Lane's scumreading a lot of people, maybe, but Lane's stances have been extremely clear since he replaced into the game and in fact they precluded a Cow lynch, who as possibly the easiest mislynch of all time is not someone I would expect someone to come in declaring a townread on.

And he hasn't called 5 out of 9 people scum, he's indicated a townread on the rest of them. Like where does that interpretation even come from?

The only players I've called scum so far are you and BNL (now a townlean). I haven't been scumreading every wagon I've pushed; the reason I pushed those wagons was because I thought they would help me progress my reads (which they did).

There isn't any kind of natural progression in your reads, on the other hand - you just keep calling more and more people scum.

Notice that Postie here is entirely backing off from her Aristo read, which she ended up voting twice for long periods during this game but is now declaring as never having been a scumread without substantiating any reasons. 'because I thought they would help me progress my reads' what?

I misread the "why does it matter?" as "does it matter?" oops.
It matters because it looks like you're trying to look busy without actually engaging properly. You're being superficial.

AT THE VERY LEAST this post indicates a scumread that she's entirely 180ing on.

And this entire 'oh but I would have had my partner bus me!' argument just plain stinks.

She declared that before this game even started. I believe in the last game's thread, after the cop guiltied her? If Postie was a D1 lynch led by anyone besides me I would immediately get incredibly fucking suspicious and demand cop checks on the early voters and the major pushers. Like it just plain doesn't make sense to use that argument. She declared to half of the people present in this game that she would ask her partner to bus her. It doesn't even make remote sense for her to actually have herself bussed when it's going to literally buy the opposite of towncred for her partner. Make herself scummy intentionally to frame the people on her wagon, maybe;

but no one besides us is really pushing her.

Like it's patent nonsense.

Doesn't help that she's jumped on literally every single wagon that's gained any traction today, which is scummy as fuck, that she called out every L-1 besides Aristo's, which is scummy as fuck as well, etc.

Aristo, you said yourself that Postie might be trying to tie herself to you. Maybe you're town, but I guarantee you that if you continue defending her after saying that shit at the very least you're going to waste one of our cop checks. Vote her.

Oh, and Lane's town. I'll go into that.

[Halos and Horns]

And frankly it's not just the stuff that she does it's the stuff that she isn't doing.
even in 1664 when I was scumreading her I had like a gut thing that I wasn't sure about that prevented me from lynching her and caused me to unvote her.
There's none of that here and if my gut's saying anything here it's to lynch her.

As for Lane, I think his scum game is like, extremely ridiculously underwhelming.
I'm fairly sure he's town here just on account of that because he's made some ridiculously towny posts, not that I agree with all of his positions.

I really like the way he's responding to Postie in particular and he's got a sort of confidence about it that feels ridiculously townie here, and the 'rc will avenge me' line is both hilarious and strikes me as almost definitely coming from a town mindset; I don't see scum!Lane trying to appeal to Town!Postie's self preservation there when she's made little effort to keep herself safe this game. That feels way more like Lane feeling confident that no matter what happens around his wagon that Postie's going to get lynched anyway and drawing comfort from it if that makes sense.

GL, can you take a look at my case on Postie please?
I'm like, dead certain that she's scum here.

[Halos and Horns]

-Halo

[Halos and Horns]

I wish we had a watcher this game btw because we're clearly eating the night kill anyway.

[Halos and Horns]

H&H, I have to read Dat big post still, but while I do, can you explain what you mean by "what she's not doing" please? That made no sense to me.

lol shush.

[Halos and Horns]

So yeah we've been talking on skype and I'm not liking postie anymore:

Spoiler:

I'm starting to see what was being said about lane casting shade on so many people...

Davsto:

Sword never picked up the role pm... You, my fine fellow, are making assumptions that can be verified, yet you don't bother to check into them, you just throw them out there as truth. And that is scummy

Uhhh... No. You said it right before you said my post was shallow and safe. Which was right before you said I was scum... You were implying they flaked because they were scum. You are pulling it out from wherever you can.

Then you didn't look very hard, or even care to question it. Cause it doesn't matter to scum, like you.

Aristophanes:

I think I'm starting to lean scum on Ari than davsto.

He asked for peoples reads much more than hes given any of his own, Postie town, Davsto scum.

Posted a whole bunch of filler. Like a whole heap.

I think he knew scum can't talk about their words, and his reaction when he "found out" seems genuinely fake. Oh really? Wow! Good job aero!

And I really don't like if my town flip helps coo. Feigning indifference if you ask me.

VOTE: aristophanes

L-1

Also, town, don't forget that scum can share their lists, so they already have the upper hand on us with regards to the double vote.

Oh wow, that's good!
GG Aero!

Most of it probably is textbook. But not take.

And how does this reaction seem real at all?

Oh wow, that's good!
GG Aero!

Read this. Out loud. To yourself. Whatever you are right now. Exactly how it is written with punctuation. And tell me it sounds real

GuiltyLion:

His reasons for scumreading Ari feel textbook and fake

Lol that reason could also fell textbook and fake...

It makes you a sub par scum hunter mostly, and possible scum, considering what you say I'm doing, is wrong.

So who do you think is scummier? Someone who uses fakeness as part of their case (me) or someone who uses fakeness as their entire case (you)

BNL:

Alright... What I wanted to say before but refrained from saying is that I really didn't like Bnl's post AT ALL. I'm amazed at the audacity to snip that sentence and play it off as a major scum slip. I was hoping he was going to be watching for a reaction, but it appears he just dropped it off and left.

VOTE: bnl

It was an obvious joke, you edited it to make it look scummy. Stop lying.

Me:

Postie, again doesn't like a wagon that might actually go to lynch... Don't like all the hopping off wagons.

Rc, you may have been right about Postie, and now theyre just hopping off so they can say see? I did it with bnl too. Possibly.

Postie, why do you get off every wagon that gets momentum? I'm starting to get the feeling you don't actually believe in any of the wagons you have been on and are just trying to look town. If you believed in even one of them, you would have stayed on it

Actually the amount of support for the BNL lynch is concerning. I think every single person except H&H, TheCow, and Flubber has pushed the wagon. I'm townreading H&H and TheCow, so that leaves BNL/Flubber as the only likely scumteam if BNL is scum - but then, why not lynch Flubber since he's going to be harder to read?

UNVOTE:

Wtf? You want to make your scum team now, and one of them has momentum, but you want to lynch the other one because they're harder to read, so you unvote, but don't put your vote anywhere else? Wtf? That's all sorts of crap

lane, you've called more than half the player list scum or possible scum now. And you've not given a single townread so far.

WTF.

This whole post is just pointing out that lane made pushes on 5 different people, but she's pushed aristo, davsto, BNL, and lane. We're playing mafia, our reads are never going to be set in stone and hers haven't been either so why do lane's have to be? I think this is really hypocritical of her to call lane out for.

It's also pretty convenient for you that the only people you haven't called scum are those that have supported getting the people you want lynched lynched.

Please Postie. Tell me if this is a scum tell or town tell. Right now. Tell me why town wouldn't support other people scum reading their scum reads.

Please reply to this post on its own

Sure, town would support other people scumreading their scumreads, but when the sole basis for whether someone is scum or not depends on whether they're backing you up then that's a problem.

The only people you haven't called scum are H&H, TheCow, and Flubber.

I am with flubber about being wary on gl's play here.

Just chill rc, we're friends for once. I'm feeling this out and kinda might be in your side for once

Marbles and toastie is my lynch pool. I'd compromise for one of my leans, but I'd rather we lynch

scum

.

Who incidentally also happen to be supporting your positions in a way that's really convenient for you.
That's a little sus.

I feel like she is deliberately misrepping lane here by implying that he is only townreading the people who support his positions. Lane's been defending Ari with his push on BNL, we've been pushing Ari while defending BNL. RC says this kind of aggressiveness is really uncharacteristic of postie as well, I'm not familiar enough with her play to say one way or the other but I trust his read on her more than I do my own.

Actually the amount of support for the BNL lynch is concerning. I think every single person except H&H, TheCow, and Flubber has pushed the wagon. I'm townreading H&H and TheCow, so that leaves BNL/Flubber as the only likely scumteam if BNL is scum - but then, why not lynch Flubber since he's going to be harder to read?

UNVOTE:

I'm really not understanding this logic either, Postie is entirely leaving out the possibility of bussing, which in a cop setup is probably pretty important. Initially I liked the fact that she unvoted at the same time that I voiced my concerns about the speed of the wagon, but looking more closely at her reason for unvoting is making me think twice.


I think RC is at the point where he's not going to respond to you or aristo a lot anymore. I'll try to respond to your points tomorrow but I'm not sure I can articulate everything properly.

[Halos and Horns]

Sorry, we were supposed to talk about the game but we ended up talking about other stuff instead and she's gone to bed now but I'll make a little post.

She struggles a lot more with getting reads on people and making detailed, analytical posts, whereas here...
Ugh, just look at 121, 462, and 545.
And she doesn't prod and question people the way she did in Wordsneak 1; she always seems to have very ordered and organised thoughts and know exactly what she's doing every time she posts.

I mean this is a way to look at it, but keep in mind that in wordsneak 1 she was alone and this time around we've been talking about this game constantly on skype so I'd think that it would be obvious that her readposts that she puts in thread would be a lot more fleshed out and organized.

That's page 4. It seems a little early to declare yourself "stuck" and get so worked up.
I'm also starting to feel like RC's paranoia of me is way overdone.
For example:

I feel like you should know that me having issues dealing with your slot goes past paranoia.

I was not kidding when I said that I probably wasn't ready to play with you again, and I feel like you should at least somewhat understand the way I'm feeling here.

I feel like a lot of the things RC is pushing as reasons for me being scum are things he should know better than to scumread me for. Like the wagon hopping. Pretty much the only times I have not done this were as scum.

Yeah, but when you were scum on D1 you voteparked your partner and for the rest of the game you just followed me onto bandwagons.
I agree that you aggressively leading wagons is a change of pace from your play in 558, but I disagree strongly with your idea that I should treat 558 like your standard play.
It's not the vote hopping itself it's that the votes are poorly substantiated, your Aristo read is bonkers, and your positions seem opportunistic.

Well, yeah, but if I die or you're townreading me or whatever it might be something to consider when/if I get more conclusive results.
Unfortunately, one of the NAI factors I was talking about that could inflate his score might have something to do with me being alive. But if I'm dead I can't tell you what results I'm getting with me out of the game, so... this is an awkward situation.
I need to figure out if I buy that RC's case on me is genuine or whether I think he's looking for an easy mislynch that he can chalk up to paranoia and get away with.

Do you consider yourself an easy mislynch?

I don't think you are, and I think you particularly not an easy mislynch in this game where you are generally townread.

I'm not necessarily known for going after the safest targets as scum but I would absolutely not be targeting you as either a safe mislynch nor to avoid getting 'in trouble' for it.

In fact, you can guarantee that if I were scum I would do my best to keep you alive to endgame or maybe kill you before LyLo so I could get some measure of revenge for 558. Me and Lilith discussed that when we originally signed up for the game actually.


So, you are claiming to have some sort of spreadsheet that can fairly accurately determine my alignment.
How did you mix up the results on that and how did your entire read shift just because the results of your random spreadsheet
You were townreading me for the contrast between the BBT read in the newbie and my read on you here; what's changed about that?

At the very least, you must agree that your read change on our slot looks sketchy as fuck.

I mean I'm somewhat believing that such a thing would exist since you started talking about it before this game but your read progression on our slot doesn't make sense.

(and seriously? you've never even played with scum!RC before; if it weren't for the fact that I'd probably do BBT style for you if i played with you more I'd find that somewhat creepy)

[Halos and Horns]

UNVOTE:

Sorry we were supposed to talk about the game but we got caught up doing other things.
I actually really strongly believe that Postie's reaction in 574 is town and is what I've been trying to drag out of her for most of the day.
Like it's hard to explain but when Postie's been under pressure from me while townreading me in the past there's this way she sort of folds in on herself and starts trying to explain herself that you can see in 574-576 that's extremely distinctive and that I don't think Postie would be able to fake right now, particularly not when I'd expect her to be worried about breaking my heart again.
Like if you don't already see what I'm saying then I'm not sure how to put it into words but I'm pretty sure that she's town here, as wary as I am of townreading her after 558.
I don't really think that the 'seal my fate' thing is a scumslip either, because the context of the phrasing was for 'if she was scum'. I wouldn't mind overly if she was copped but we're not lynching her.
I'll talk to Lilith and we'll decide who we're voting next. Probably Aristophanes but I'll see where she's at now.

[Halos and Horns]

-Halo

[Halos and Horns]

This was all a reaction test, RC!?

Oh my god I hate you (jk).

I mean, kind of?
We didn't really plan anything per se but you were scummy at the beginning so I figured I wanted to pressure you hard.
I was definitely scumreading you (Lilith wasn't really) because I wasn't getting the reactions I wanted, if that's what you're asking. It wasn't really a reaction test.
but I don't know. weren't really getting what we were looking for until now. I mean sorry if we had to upset you along the way, but after what you did in 558 I don't think you can complain

[Halos and Horns]

Yeah, but the townslip could easily have been planned, though I doubt Postie's reaction was.

[Halos and Horns]

Lilith where

I am pretty sure both Lane and Postie are town.
It's somewhat weirding me out how GuiltyLion has evaded really addressing us or our alignment when after B24 I'd assume we'd be his top priority.
We're lynching Aristophanes today though.

VOTE: Aristophanes

[Halos and Horns]

UNVOTE:

Where the ef is Lilith >.<

[Halos and Horns]

I was hoping to get a chance to chat with Lilith before I voted but the tl;dr is that after last game and all the pressure that Aristo is under, I can't imagine him not claiming cop under duress.
The VT claim makes him extremely likely to be town, I think.
I'm also sort of doubting some of my scumread on him now that I'm pretty sure Postie is town (I will hate you if you're scum here), and I really want to vote

VOTE: GuiltyLion

[Halos and Horns]

Sorry guys I have really not been paying attention to this game as much as I should I will reread when I get home today.

-Horns

[Halos and Horns]

Just want to preface with an apology, I have really not been involved in this game as much as I should be and hopefully I will be more so starting now.

@Flubber, you made an initial push on Postie but seem to have dropped off in pressure. What is your read on her now? And how do you feel about GL?

@Postie, what are your thoughts on BNL's push on lane? Are you townreading BNL?

I didn't like the initial BNL wagon, I didn't think his supposed scummy action was scummy in that I felt like it stemmed from misreading and not a deliberate misquote. However, I'm not really liking his recent content in the sense that he has GL as a scumread but hasn't attempted to push him since 456. Also his push on lane is really delayed, lane's been on several wagons before this and I don't understand why getting on the ari wagon would lead to bnl scumreading lane and not anybody else on that wagon. I want to move our vote to BNL but I should reread GL's ISO before I do that.

I was hoping to get a chance to chat with Lilith before I voted but the tl;dr is that after last game and all the pressure that Aristo is under, I can't imagine him not claiming cop under duress.
The VT claim makes him extremely likely to be town, I think.

Can you go more into this? I don't quite understand.

Which part? The VT claim? Scum would probably claim cop because that would result in either the real cop counterclaiming, or the lynch happening somewhere else because no one wants to lynch a (in this case un-cced) "cop."

-Horns

[Halos and Horns]

I don't really agree with Lilith or anyone else on the BnL scumreads and I'd really like to see more GL votes.
I feel like GL's push is very storytelling-y, like he's not trying to read BnL so much as he is just trying to sell him as scum as forcefully as possible.
I'm really not expecting BnL to flip scum here and I think people may be mistaking newbiness for scum.

Postie, Lane, where are you at on BnL/GL?

[Halos and Horns]

-Halo

[Halos and Horns]

Can I just 'welp I'm RC' this and have people vote GL?

I really don't think BnL is scum here and I get really bad feelings about the way GL is pushing the wagon.

[Halos and Horns]

Bitch please we could hardclaim VT and we still wouldn't make it through night one.

GL is scum, just hurry the fuck up and vote him.

[Halos and Horns]

idgaf who your partner is dude.
you think anyone here is going to give a shit what I said after I inevitably get shot n1?
no because that's the fucking worst part.
I get shot N1 every game so no one has any reason to read into my death. no one knows if I was killed because I called shit or because I'm just too dangerous to keep alive or because of PR speculation or whatever. no one reads into it at all. I die, people are like 'oh RC died yeah standard nightkill' and because it's such a standard and safe move to kill me no one ever questions it. no one ever wonders if maybe I was killed for a reason.
fuck you. get lynched.

[Halos and Horns]

I've seen BnL in 3 games and he's ranged from mediocre to awful in them.

My position on him should be of no surprise to anyone, least of all himself.

[Halos and Horns]

Care to explain that vote?

[Halos and Horns]

Do you have a townread on GL? If so, can you explain it?

[Halos and Horns]

I honestly don't see you making sense here. I don't have a strong townread on Ari, and I questioned Lane about his jump onto the Ari wagon. (And I wasn't townreading Cow either)

In your second paragraph you were talking like I was certain you and Davsto were scum, but I wasn't. I faded out my Davsto scumread. I'm uncertain about Ari. And since you are directing this to me specifically, I'm getting this impression that you are finding reasons to scumread me, which is a scummy mindset. (Not sure how to explain this, but what I'm trying to say is that you set your reads in stone first then find evidence for doing so, rather than the other way round)

Sorry, I'm probably not being totally clear here. I'm talking about as of 588, when you posted your readslist, and then comparing it to what you were doing during the first L-1 Ari wagon, which was H&H, TheCow, Lane, and Flubber.

Town: Lane, Postie, Flub
Null lean town: H&H, Aristophanes
Null: Cow
Null lean scum: Davsto
Scum: GL

So here you have concluded that all four members of the early L-1 wagon are ranging from null to town. I don't follow how this makes sense given that you said your scumread on me was for "opportunistic wagon hopping" (458), and that you'd really given no reason for scumreading Davsto other than the original cop discussion. It's just baffling to me that you didn't think anyone on the first Ari wagon was opportunistic with their vote - you even call out lane for vote hopping and being on wagons as early as 456.

I know that sense then, you have turned your eye towards lane, but I'm wondering why this wasn't there several hundred posts ago around the time when I was pushing on lane. You did say your read on Lane was volatile, but why hadn't you tried to sort him at all before then if it was such an unstable read?

Also, speaking of second paragraphs, yours is a complete misrep. Why do you think I'm talking like you were certain Davsto was scum? I literally said:

There's no pro-town motivation in

suspecting

that Davsto and I are scum but then letting everyone else force a claim out of Ari and put him into hammer range twice.

Also, can you please answer my question about H&H calling you a newbie? It shouldn't be this hard for you to give me some thoughts on what you think of your play this game and whether you think H&H is being honest in their assessment.

I don't understand how town!you could have actually spent this long overanalyzing the relevance of the members of that wagon.
It's one wagon in a game with no flip. If you think it's so significant, why don't you follow it up yourself?
There's nothing at all awry with townreading people who were on an early wagon. I don't believe that you think that there is.

[Halos and Horns]

Me and Lilith will get together tomorrow and make a readslist together.

GL is probably still our main focus but we'll see.

[Halos and Horns]

This wagon is fucking horrible.
Vote fucking GL. We are not lynching BnL today under any circumstances.
If I'm dead you autolynch GL tomorrow. He claims cop, you don't ask for a cc. you just lynch him.
he's fucking scum 100%.

[Halos and Horns]

I have mixed feelings about these posts, but am generally getting a town feel. Anyone else?

Yes he is fucking town.
go vote GL.

I mean I am the only viable CW and I am town, so if I get lynched instead then you better start actually playing and trying D2. Town will have to live with the consequences of having you alive

Yes, you are capable of playing better regardless of your alignment. Your play today was terrible in that it's getting you lynched.

stfu you obnoxious scumlord.
Anyone with town play worth a damn sees that BnL is town here. Don't be a smug dick and rub it in BnL's face.
That's awful.

[Halos and Horns]

Wait why is there a GuiltyLion wagon?

Endorsing BNL

VOTE: BnL

Because he's scum.
Incredibly fucking skeeved out by this vote.

[Halos and Horns]

toastie, you're still pegging marbles as town?

Slight townlean, I think.

My money's on a scumteam of lane/Flubber or GL/Flubber.

Wait what
Since when were you scumreading Flubbernugget, and why?

There's no case on him. He's town because of what's absent, not what's present.
There are a ton of posts where it's clear as day that he's trying to solve the game.
Best example is the one where he calls Postie out for her change of viewpoint on flubber.

Soon as GL gets going immediately counterwagon on BnL. This isn't fucking rocket science.

[Halos and Horns]

It shows that he's keeping track of her viewpoints and looking for inconsistencies.
It's not about asking the question itself, it's that he even noticed; I sure didn't.
He has a ton of other posts that bleed game solving intent as well.

[Halos and Horns]

Leaving your vote on Aristo is tantamount to consenting to a BnL lynch.
Vote GL if you're scumreading him.

[Halos and Horns]

VOTE: GL

for the record, it's pretty unfair that everyone who isn't us has an additional 5 words to potentially get.

[Halos and Horns]

Postie, walk me through your townread on me and your scumread on GL please.

[Halos and Horns]

normally town!Postie is a lot more paranoid from what I've seen

Now that you mention it, I am having some paranoia set in about H&H because they weren't nightkilled. o.e

Really?

[Halos and Horns]

Alright. I still feel like you're town at any rate. I mean maybe I'm wrong but I don't feel like you'd react emotionally in that way as scum.
This is hard to explain and maybe I'm wrong because I'm inserting a ton of words into your mouth but I feel like you probably wouldn't be able to fake that sullen resignation, particularly considering I don't think I ever told you that's why I ended up not lynching you in 1664. And even if you could, I'm not sure if you would.
I think that you'd be really worried about upsetting me again if you rolled scum, particularly when I mentioned (and was not exaggerating) that , and I would expect your interactions with me to be a lot more guarded and careful and that you'd try not to engage me on an emotional level. That's not what's been happening, so I think you're town.
There's a few main reasons that I'm scumreading GL here.

I don't feel like his scumhunting processes are legit.
His entire post about how the one wagon on Aristo had to contain scum / make people scum feels contrived and I don't really see GL believing it; I think that he's just scum using it as a fake thought process to justify pushing the easy wagon.
I agree with a lot of what you've said about the BnL thing, but the fundamental thing with GL is that I feel like he was doing it in a really storytelling manner; he was describing everything that went through with a clear BnL scum agenda and it felt really disingenuous and strongarmy. GL doesn't usually talk like that either.

This whole 'pushing on people for being right on BnL and therefore white knights' after the townflip is horrible and something I see from scum after pushing mislynches through constantly. I don't really see where he's coming from here; I think both of us were both fairly clear about why we were townreading him. And frankly BnL was rather obviously town anyway and the whole thing just feels really defensive like he wants to preemptively defend himself against comments about how he pushed the ML though.

His read on me also really doesn't make much sense either.
Throughout the game, he's probably called us scum more than anyone else.
Virtually every time he proposed a scumteam it was H&H / X. He called it HH/Lane, HH/BnL, etc.
But he's never once voted me, and though I'd expect him to be hella fucking paranoid about me after last game he's done absolutely nothing about it.
I feel like he's just throwing my name in to pay lip service to how he should be paranoid but avoiding actually pushing on me because he doesn't actually want to pick a fight with me.

I don't like how he's entered today either.
He was wrong about BnL (who several people called him out on) and a ton of his cases on myself & you were based off of associatives with the BnL slot.
Him continuing the same thought process by still going after me and you today suggests that he didn't bother to rethink anything when BnL flipped town.
Which if town is really fucking bad and I think is much more likely to be scum here.

Also, I'm still scumreading Aristo and that hammer and the entire thought process behind his read change to hammering BnL is just murky and nasty.
I feel like that could easily have been scum trying to get the hammer through in case SS caused the GL to happen instead.
The way the GL and BnL competing wagons built feels sort of SvT as well. People were pretty vocal on both sides which doesn't suggest scum were trying to hide in the background.

The you/me thing makes no sense either. There's no good reason why either of us 'has' to be scum and it feels like a forced dichotomy.
The whole 'lynch me I scumhunt off my wagon' thing felt terrible. Most people weren't scumreading him and it was really early in the day.
Might have been trying to imitate my play in our last blitz and look like he's not afraid of dying? I mean maybe it's legit but it just felt so discordant and not like him when I saw it.

Thoughts?

Also if GL or anyone has anything they want to say. But definitely want to hear more from you Postie.

[Halos and Horns]

-Halo

[Halos and Horns]

Like this just doesn't do justice to what I wanted to say.
He's so top-down and in such a terrible way. It feels like he places the vote and then tries to match the game to his vote.
BnL push in particular was just so dirty.

[Halos and Horns]

GL: were you ever townreading Postie? What makes Ari obvtown to you? Can you explain why you keep saying that one of us&Postie is scum and the other town?

[Halos and Horns]

Gl having his lynch sealed is very Ew. Is it even possible to scum hunt off your own guaranteed lynch wagon?

How do you feel about GL himself?

[Halos and Horns]

So then how were you saying my way of sorting him was wrong?

I mean, the conclusion I reached was obviously wrong. But you were criticizing me scumreading him without having a better alternative in mind yourself. Feels like it could be WK-ing.

I'm not saying your way of sorting him was wrong. My scumread on you has never been about the

way

you sorted him. It's the reasons you gave for scumreading him that I have a problem with.
Although I'm not sure I'm following your logic here either - "a scummy way of sorting someone is less scummy than not sorting them"? What?

I agree with a lot of what you've said about the BnL thing, but the fundamental thing with GL is that I feel like he was doing it in a really storytelling manner; he was describing everything that went through with a clear BnL scum agenda and it felt really disingenuous and strongarmy. GL doesn't usually talk like that either.

I wasn't sure what you meant by this earlier, but I think I see it now. Yeah. I don't remember him talking that way in previous games.

But definitely want to hear more from you Postie.

Is there anything in particular you want me to weigh in on?

Well, everything.

And I'd like to hear more from you about your positions on other people if you can find the time.

I'm pretty comfortable lynching GL so I'm not overly concerned about my reads on other people at this time but if you need clarification on something ask away.

[Halos and Horns]

And no, GL, There were 3 people pushing your wagon yesterday and 2 are alive.
SS is the only one who has been added to the wagon at this time and you're saying that you're townreading him.
There's no particular reason for you to suspect that there has to be scum on your wagon. It doesn't make sense and feels like posturing to mislead town after your flip.

Aristo, why the hammer as well?

[Halos and Horns]

I'm just a poor boy, I need no sympathy..
Because I'm easy come, easy go
A little high, a little low
Any way the wind blows... doesn't really matter..... to me
To meeee

I didn't like the hammer because I still do not understand why everyone was scumreading BNL for the snip thing. But I'm not sure whether I think he's scum because I would have expected a cop claim? Although I guess it could have been a WIFOM thing because he'd know he'd be found out the next day?

[Halos and Horns]

-Horns

[Halos and Horns]

I'm just a poor boy, I need no sympathy..
Because I'm easy come, easy go
A little high, a little low
Any way the wind blows... doesn't really matter..... to me
To meeee

I didn't like the hammer because I still do not understand why everyone was scumreading BNL for the snip thing. But I'm not sure whether I think he's scum because I would have expected a cop claim? Although I guess it could have been a WIFOM thing because he'd know he'd be found out the next day?

I unvoted for the same reasons as you, but rereading, I don't get the sense Ari didn't even think of that, and am leaning back towards scum.

This day is weird. I don't get major town or scum vibes from anyone. Everyones cases feel like the same old thing. The end of yesterday drug on and on. I want my blitz games back. When bnl flipped I figured I'd go back and read into davsto.

And, idk, I get this gut feeling rc is scum playing safe around me. (I know I know, you don't give a fuck about be and aren't afraid of me catching you but you just seem... Subdued and it's freaking me out lol)

That quote was Lilith

[Halos and Horns]

There's no explorative element to your posts.

In most of them there's a top-down feel whereby you clearly started writing the post with a read in mind and you add points to support the predetermined conclusion.

There's no posts where it feels like you're starting from scratch and reaching a conclusion through exploration of the text. It feels more that you have conclusions that you want to support and are searching for evidence that supports those conclusions. There are plenty of people who do that as town but it's absolutely not something I see you doing as town. You're usually very thinking-things-out-in-thread-ish, and very not like this.

Here's a bunch of the ones that strike me for the record, but no amount of quotes does justice to the fact that not a single post feels like you're actually scumhunting.

Spoiler: quotes

I honestly don't see you making sense here. I don't have a strong townread on Ari, and I questioned Lane about his jump onto the Ari wagon. (And I wasn't townreading Cow either)

In your second paragraph you were talking like I was certain you and Davsto were scum, but I wasn't. I faded out my Davsto scumread. I'm uncertain about Ari. And since you are directing this to me specifically, I'm getting this impression that you are finding reasons to scumread me, which is a scummy mindset. (Not sure how to explain this, but what I'm trying to say is that you set your reads in stone first then find evidence for doing so, rather than the other way round)

Sorry, I'm probably not being totally clear here. I'm talking about as of 588, when you posted your readslist, and then comparing it to what you were doing during the first L-1 Ari wagon, which was H&H, TheCow, Lane, and Flubber.

Town: Lane, Postie, Flub
Null lean town: H&H, Aristophanes
Null: Cow
Null lean scum: Davsto
Scum: GL

So here you have concluded that all four members of the early L-1 wagon are ranging from null to town. I don't follow how this makes sense given that you said your scumread on me was for "opportunistic wagon hopping" (458), and that you'd really given no reason for scumreading Davsto other than the original cop discussion. It's just baffling to me that you didn't think anyone on the first Ari wagon was opportunistic with their vote - you even call out lane for vote hopping and being on wagons as early as 456.

I know that sense then, you have turned your eye towards lane, but I'm wondering why this wasn't there several hundred posts ago around the time when I was pushing on lane. You did say your read on Lane was volatile, but why hadn't you tried to sort him at all before then if it was such an unstable read?

Also, speaking of second paragraphs, yours is a complete misrep. Why do you think I'm talking like you were certain Davsto was scum? I literally said:

There's no pro-town motivation in

suspecting

that Davsto and I are scum but then letting everyone else force a claim out of Ari and put him into hammer range twice.

Also, can you please answer my question about H&H calling you a newbie? It shouldn't be this hard for you to give me some thoughts on what you think of your play this game and whether you think H&H is being honest in their assessment.

Yeah Postie if you're gonna vote me then I want a detailed explanation of why you think I'm scummy, cause I haven't seen that once this game and I feel you're being pretty lazy to the point where it may be scum if H&H is town

lol RC if you want to play that card then I want you policy lynched D2

Also, I don't see how it is scummy to be null on someone which everyone else is either townreading or scumreading?

My problem is because it's a lack of engagement with the gamestate. Ari hit L-1 extremely early into the day and you talked as if you wanted him lynched in 349. If you're town then why weren't you weighing in substantively on the main thing that everyone else was talking about and taking stances on?

Also, RC claiming I'm story-telling on BNL here:

I feel like GL's push is very storytelling-y, like he's not trying to read BnL so much as he is just trying to sell him as scum as forcefully as possible.

doesn't read particularly genuine to me either. I've made several efforts to engage with BNL throughout my ISO. 160, 271, 525, 590.

BNL/H&H for scumteam everyone, you heard it here first.

Explain?

Yeah, been meaning to get to this for a while now.

Basically I don't see BNL advancing the game, and his reads feel stiff and faked.

First there was the way he tried to implicate Ari based on a joke post, which has already been beaten to death in the thread. I don't think his explanation was adequate (or that any explanation of it could be, really).

Next, his push on me in 456 I thought was pretty bad. He calls my 377 lazy, which it is, but then also calls it scummy, which it isn't. It's like he's trying to shoehorn his scumread on me to fit the idea that "scum is on my wagon", but there's no effort to engage with me or figure out if he's wrong. When you asked him why it was scummy, he just said "opportunistic wagon hopping", but considering I've barely moved off of him the entire day, it doesn't feel like an honest scumread at all. My vote on lane was clearly part of an effort to sort him, and once I was satisfied with townreading Lane, I moved back to BNL.

He's not taking any strong stances on Ari either way, which is rubbing me the wrong way. When there's a leading wagon for most of the day, everyone should eventually be falling on the side of "this is a bad lynch" or "this person is scum". BNL seems to do neither.

I haven't been paying much attention to him this game, so I am currently null on him.

As for now, I'm still undecided on Ari. And the main reason I've not been paying much attention to Ari is because I was paying more attention elsewhere.

^there's a lot of thought process missing here. Where was BNL paying attention elsewhere? like if he thinks scum is outside of Ari, then that means he should believe Ari is a mislynch and be fighting against it, or at least voicing a problem with it.

No. I am still undecided on Aristophanes, and gun to head I'd call him town. I mean, he does sound like a legit VI, but he's been here for more than a year so. Then again, I doubt he would be able to fake the townslip as I doubt he read the previous game.

Even this is still hedgey and waffley. I don't know why BNL wouldn't say he's just outright townreading Ari.

Also I just don't understand his view of the gamestate. As of 588 (setting aside his new scumread on Lane), he had Ari as town and Davsto/me as his strongest scumreads. So that means he thinks Ari hitting L-1 was an all town wagon, and that both scum were sitting on the sidelines WKing Ari and saying we don't like the lynch. I don't see how town!BNL would view the game that way, especially since his main reason for calling both Lane and myself scummy is "wagon hopping".

I think the argument people kept using for BNL being scum is complete bullshit and three of you are supporting it. I don't understand how that's possible.

That's funny, because I think BNL's explanation is bullshit.

I thought the second half of the sentence was irrelevant to what I perceived to be a self-contradiction, so I snipped it.

I haven't been paying much attention to him this game, so I am currently null on him. I retract my scumpoint on him for the perceived self-contradiction, as I realised I failed to see the context of the quote.

first he thought the second half was irrelevant, now he says he failed to see the context.

At the

very least

he's not reading and not paying attention the game.
At worst he's caught scum trying to explain an egregious misrep.

Like in what world does town!BNL quote the whole part of that sentence, then think, "hmm, that part that looks like a joke is irrelevant, let me just intentionally snip that part so my point is clear"?

Regarding your H&H guarantee, I've seen scum!RC write up similar cases before. Not sure why you're townreading them so strongly.

also I generally agree with H&H that Postie's push on Lane is terrible, Lane looks extremely town to me after I pushed him over his Ari push in the beginning.

I would like an explanation from Postie as to why she thinks I'm scum and why she reversed her push on BNL.

BNL is still my primary scumread, and he dodged my question about Ari.

BNL, what is your read on Ari? And can you try to explain why it was null halfway into D1 when Ari had hit L-1 and was majorly scumread by a number of players

If Postie is town here I wouldn't rule out scum!H&H

And how does this reaction seem real at all?

I think some people just have a flair for posting like that and Ari is probably one of them (off the top of my head, Performer is another one). His name itself is a reference to a semi-obscure Greek playwright, so you gotta figure he's probably a drama guy.

It's very easy for scum to push mislynch wagons on the basis of "fake tone", and I am getting the sense that that is what could be happening here.

His reasons for scumreading Ari feel textbook and fake

Postie self vote is bad
Ari Townslip leans fake to me
Bnl's point about davsto I think was good but what I really didn't like was davstos reaction trying to say it was clear he was blatantly calling for a cop on Postie. That's not true.
I am with flubber about being wary on gl's play here.
Pancakes are disgusting
The cow is worthless
H&h seems town to me

This is a lot of shade for a game with only 2 scum. It reads to me like you're just listing out things that are anti-town (Postie's self-vote, the cow's ISO) without scumreading the people who did them or trying to develop reads based on them.

If Ari's townslip is fake, wouldn't that make him scum? Why would town fake a townslip?

I feel Aristo looks town here. He's radiating a self-assured confidence that I don't think it would be easy for scum to fake.

Also I've mistakenly scumread him before for bland early D1 play

I finally watched the YouTube video that was linked in the mod post

I love Jimmy Fallon he's such a gem. Probably the most accessible host on late night television these days. I can't explain why but I never really got into the whole Conan craze.

I couldn't get a strong scum read, so I voted you as it was RVS.

Are you saying your vote on Davsto was RVS? Cause I didn't get that sense from your vote.
VOTE: BNL

I'm like halfway sure this is town Postie, especially given her push on Aristo.

my problem is more that we've apparently decided on lynching Ari without any substantial input from TheCow or BNL

Postie, why do I feel like you're trying to avoid engaging me now? ugh.

[Halos and Horns]

Just, like, do more. ugh.
In Slav 1 we filled pages of back and forth.
Slav 2 we only filled like 5 and it was mostly be trying to coax stuff out of you.

I don't feel like you're proactively making a huge effort to scumhunt in this game and I'm not sure if that's scum or lack of engagement or whatever, since you have definitely been kind of MIA in general, but it's just urgh. I'm not at all comfortable with you just following me on bandwagons like you did in 558.

[Halos and Horns]

Well I need to see something more than that from you.
GL/Aristo is still the obvious scumteam but I don't think GL scum precludes you at all and I don't want to end the day before I'm sure about you.
What's your read on Lane?

[Halos and Horns]

If GL flips scum, I don't think Aristophanes is scum. I doubt GL would be defending him this hard if they were partners. If GL genuinely thinks he's going to be lynched today, I think he'd be making an effort to distance instead.

If I'm wrong I'll probably be looking the group of S_S/lane/Flubber for two scums

^ Your second scum can probably be found here.

I think that the opposite is way more likely.
If he thinks that he's going down which he has made clear, he would most likely NOT try to distance in such a way because it's the obvious thing to do when he knows he's going down.
Hard defending makes a ton more sense because it would put us into a situation where we'd be expected to think 'Oh there's no way that scum would hard defend while going down.
And the way he's not really fighting his lynch strikes me as him having an agenda that involves him being lynched, which suggests you or Aristo again.
Plus Aristophanes has been scummy as shit over two days and the BnL hammer was fairly terrible.

[Halos and Horns]

Just because of the arrogance thing?

Like, urgh. I'm not saying that you're scum here or that your read isn't genuine but I need more from you.

[Halos and Horns]

H&H sure is doing a lot of storytelling about my agenda and who my partner is or isn't on this page.

Also, do you notice that these cases are written to be read?

Like,

He wants to survive. Why? Scum have to.

That's not an authentic thought process, that's something written to provoke a reaction in the reader.

Your first case on someone isn't like that. By the time you've been pushing on someone for several in game days and you're positive they're scum, you get cases like that.

That's not how a read develops at all.

I've known that you were scum for days. I'm trying to walk others through my scumread and convince them, not develop my own reads.
You'll notice that my posts where the read was developed were considerably different. Yours weren't.

[Halos and Horns]

Oh, and I'm not 'presenting' your agenda, at all.

That doesn't even make sense.

[Halos and Horns]

You're arguing about who my "obvious' partner is and how I'm trying to manipulate people's perceptions today. That's gonna make you look really terrible when I flip town

You've been weirdly tunneled on me this whole game. Say that you actually know that I'm town. Who will you think is scum then?

*shrug*

If you are town, I've lynched wrong before and done fine.

I'd be pretty okay with it because it means we stay alive tbh.

[Halos and Horns]

My flip won't change it, I'm just trying to get a beat on you. I've been struggling a lot to figure if you're town or not and at this point I think I'm ready to say you're definitively a townread. You keep occasionally pinging me with something that looks lazy or uninspired, but usually town!Postie pings me more than scum!Postie does, and your interactions with H&H today feel pretty town.

More and more I'm getting the sense that H&H is faking the suspicion of you to set you up as a possible final mislynch alongside Ari. And I'm still confident thinking my D1 wagon had at least one scum pushing it (including S_S voicing support for it). So yes, I am scumreading H&H

Doesn't even make sense since I at least am townreading Postie and I'm fairly sure Lilith is as well.

This looks like an attempt to set up paranoia, as has the entire Postie/H&H dichotomy.

Feel like he's just scared of us townblocking.

[Halos and Horns]

Because if we wagon an unknown and they're forced to claim cop, we are guaranteed to lose the cop.

Because if we lynch someone else instead and they flip town, then I'm still alive in LYLO and H&H strongarms my lynch regardless of their alignment and we lose. And they'd have a decent case given that they've been pushing me all game and yet I avoided the lynch and was a CW to town.

Because once it's confirmed in thread that I'm town, other townies can read through my points about other players and see what I am seeing without distrusting my motives.

Now can you explain why you implied I was acting like it was tragic that people are scumreading me and explain why you put plight in quotes like that? Because I haven't been playing up a sympathy card at all.

This isn't 'accepting-my-lynch-because-it's-the-right-thing-to-do', this is making a show of doing the same while actually arguing against his own lynch.

[Halos and Horns]

Like the post you quoted was to just shut down a waste of time argument with Postie because I'm satisfied in thinking that she's town and it doesn't really help anyone else to just continually argue with her about my own alignment. I doubt she will come around on me, because I can't argue against 'you sound storytelling-y, sorry', unless she wants to ask me specific questions about opinions and posts from this game.

If you're scumreading Postie from her push on me then you should ask her about it yourself. I think she's town so I have no interest in pushing on her further, but will answer questions if she has them.

So we're the scum in us and Postie now?

That's new.

[Halos and Horns]

S_S and H&H is my best bet for scum.
S_S push on me in this page is complete garbage.

Postie, Lane, and Ari are my strong town reads, please don't lynch any of them.

Flubber could go either way for me

Think this is just a big ball of WIFOM. Scum are probably him + one of the strong town reads, most likely Ari.

[Halos and Horns]

Ok I think reaction test can be done now.
It's 5 to lynch, not 4. You're at L-2, so considering the extra vote it's L-1 if you're town.
But I think you believed you were at L-1, and that's a lot of effort to put in if you know you won't even be hammered.
Ugh I will have to reread you now
UNVOTE:

this is fucking awful.

the entire GL thing was awful, but this reaction is awful as well.

This could be a buddy that's bussing.

[Halos and Horns]

I'll keep my vote where it is for now, but dammit, that reaction was pretty town. I have some thinking to do.

How is it pretty town at all?

Walk me through this. I think him assuming that he'd both be on the receiving end of the doublevote AND mixing up the number of votes is fake as fuck and just a last ditch attempt to gambit up some towncred.

[Halos and Horns]

k.
1) before you start talking shit about Lilith we've been talking about this game on Skype literally this entire game. My posts represent both of our thoughts. She's posted plenty on her own as well.
Like, this whole thing is just nasty. You're implying that I would sit here and tell Lilith, as my hydra partner, to not post while we're hydraed so I can teach her to avoid being scumread? That's fucking disgusting.

and

2) Why should I give a shit if you're town honestly? You've been deathtunneling us (town) this entire game while not even pushing on or voting me for the entire first day, your reads even outside of us are absolutely awful and neither me nor Lilith agree with any of your reads. Like, your play has been ridiculously bad. You strongarmed the shit out of a lynch on one of our mutual townreads and then pushed on us for calling you out on that shit. Lynch obvtown and then call me scum for pushing on you? Like, fuck no. If you flip town here I will happily ignore everything you've said this game and so will everyone else.

You want to be town, pull your head out of your ass, stop pushing on people for voting you when you've been objectively both scummy as fuck and awful, and explain your Aristo read.
No, casual tone does not make someone town and that's fucking awful and gives me no reason to believe that you're not just inventing reads tactically. your positions are terrible and make no sense, your BNL push was god awful, your push on us and Postie has been god awful.

SS is town, we are town, Postie is town. If you're town, pull your head out of your ass. This cherrypicking of my and Lilith's metas is absolutely disgusting.

[Halos and Horns]

I stopped signing my posts a while ago, but I admit I haven't posted as much as I should. Do you want me to apologize for being more apathetic than usual about posting? (And yeah this is a large part of the reason why I don't think I'll play in a hydra again.) You've resorted to making stuff up about things I said in another game to push us. I never said anything about my scumgame in Word Sneak 1, I even checked my ISO.

I don't know if BNL was super "obvtown," but off the top of my head I remember he wasn't flailing under your ridiculous pressure, he kept responding logically and trying to explain himself even when he felt attacked. Your case on him was predicated on him being scummy for not getting a joke, and you did that thing where you talk past someone trying to explain why they're scummy instead of talking to them to push them, which is something you did to Postie in EiAL2. Even after you did start talking to him, you kept tunneling him even though you allowed that he might be town. I think you knew he was town while pushing his lynch (in twilight you even said "I wouldn't be surprised if he flipped town").

Your read on Ari is pretty terrible because all you've said about him is "he's radiating a self-assured confidence" and "he's painfully obvtown" without attempting to explain further or push him or even ask him any questions. Like you just haven't even attempted to interact with that slot and have given him as one of your strongest townreads for the entire game based on "I don't see why he's scum."

[Halos and Horns]

Like if you're town just shut the hell up at this point.
You having terrible reads does not mean that we have to be white knighting and if you're actually thinking that right now you are absolutely awful at this game. Like, that's an unbelievable trainwreck of a logical argument. You either played like shit or are scum, don't try to act like it's our fucking fault that we called obvious town when we saw one.
where is that Aristo read? like 1058 is a disgusting post. We're not unvoting GL today.

[Halos and Horns]

'needlessly abusive as town'
you're pushing on me for having correct reads when your reads sucked.
If you are town when you find out our alignment you need to think hard about pushing people for *not* doing stupid shit.
Pretty sure you're not, but hey.

Like you literally called me out for being likely scum because I wasn't getting pissed off and then you implied that Lilith wasn't posting because she rolled scum and I was afraid she'd play bad and now I'm being 'needlessly abusive'.
Your push on us has been a quagmire of double standards and catch-22s where no matter what we do we're scum. If we voted BnL we're scum for sheeping you onto a scum mislynch.
Your position on me has no basis in reality and if you're town I hope that after you see spoilers you realize how incredibly bad you've played this game.
We are town. no one else in this game thinks we're scum for a reason. if you are town stop pushing on us, reread Aristo and tell us what you think.

[Halos and Horns]

Like what you're doing with regards to us is flat out the wrong way to play.

I never, ever, said this. So I don't know where it's coming from.

Your 'oh we must have been white knighting' is an unfalsifiable case because you could just as easily scumread us for doing the opposite.

Hey, same to you mate!

If you're town that means I engaged in one mislynch and if we're still alive I guarantee we win this game.
You're attempting to perform 2, except the second one isn't going to happen because no one's going to follow your reads after your death.

I'm not changing my read on Aristo, and I'm not willing to vote him today, because if he flips town then this game is a loss. It's better for me to get lynched and then everyone can objectively evaluate you vs. Aristo, knowing that I disagree with the case on him as town.

Except that you pushed on us and we are town.
You also were the leader of the BnL wagon and he was town.
So so far you're 0% accurate in your reads. NO ONE IS GOING TO FOLLOW YOUR READS AT ALL TOMORROW IF YOU ARE TOWN.
Like the townie thing to do here is to actually make an effort and explain your shit and maybe if Aristo's really town you can convince me.
Sitting there like a log is scummy as eff and you're going to do absolutely nothing for us if you're town besides get mislynched and not influence anything after your death.

Like have some mike's hard lemonade and do something. K?

Also like seriously, how am I not going to be the lynch when both you and Postie will take my reaction to thinking I was hammered, and then spin it as if it's all WIFOM that I faked for towncred?

lol.

[Halos and Horns]

John F Kennedy, Opium, iced tea, a snowball fight, a dutch oven, a man, a spoon, and a sausage.

Don't mind me.

[Halos and Horns]

Except... I'm not doing that, and I wouldn't. For example, I'm not pushing on lane or flubber on the basis of them being on a mislynch wagon.

But they're not me, are they?
This entire game it's felt like you've had it out for me. That can make you town or scum but I'm absolutely tired of it.
I'm good with you dead regardless of your alignment if this crappy tunnel is going to continue.
And it's not like there's a light at the end of this tunnel. we're town. you're not getting lynched. this is terrible from you regardless of your alignment.

How and why can a scumread convince you that someone else is town?

Your BnL read was shit.
Your read on me was shit.
I'm willing to entertain the possibility that you're just horribly confbiasing if I like your case on people you aren't emotionally invested in.

Again, this is just scum!H&H setting up for survival on D3. There's no reason town should say this, at the very least, I want people to sheep my townreads on Postie and Lane because I'm almost 100% solid on those. Aristo feels like the D3 game-losing mislynch, I'm like 85% sure he's town.

Shall I quote myself saying the exact same thing as town?
Shall I show you the results of me searching through all my scum games because I'm positive that's not something I'd have said as scum. It's not helpful as scum.
I'm pushing you to get off your fucking ass and do something useful. No one is going to sheep shit from you unless you make a decent effort and make a decent case.

tell you what H&H, how about this re:Aristo

if you're town and Aristo is scum, I'll take the blame for the loss
if you're town and Aristo is town, you take the blame for the loss
if you're scum, carry on.

Oh sure we'll take the blame but that doesn't change the fact that you're being useless as fuck.
If you have a townread on Aristo then do something with it.
The only thing you've spent any effort doing this entire game is casting shade on me and Lilith and frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.

[Halos and Horns]

Sorry.

I wanted my revenge on Postie

I feel somewhat better about 558. Kinda.