Micro 633: Marvel Dual Universes uPick - Game over!

[Fire Assassin]

This game just started and wanted to start by asking some questions about the last instance the "dual world" mechanic was used by players in last iteration.

Do you think this mechanic made town want to mislynch on certain days to get other role card knowledge and then work towards that card?
Since the mechanic only works if we mislynch, how optimal would you consider no lynching?

I will try to eventually take a look at the other game usage of the mechanic, but the thing sounds semi-random kind of bastardish.
I wonder from a host standpoint is there any point in not giving players both role cards at start? Besides players obviously possibly outing that they are scum in the other world and hurting their own chances in that version.

[Fire Assassin]

If all of the scum/town are eliminated in one world, the game will remain in the other world for the rest of the game.

@Mod Can I ask does this mean that we can win in one world and the game continues in the other? Essentially possible to win twice, lose twice, or win once and twice?

[Fire Assassin]

At this point in my mafia career btw I don't intend to ever use RVS on this account again.
So not participating in that.

The one who sticks out to me the most right now out of RVS is Xkyfu but its just his very relaxed nature, but this is early/rvs so that usually means nothing.

[Fire Assassin]

*raises hand*.

@Fire - No Lynching and/or mislynching will hurt town, so it's better we just kynch who we think are scum.

Very standard answer.
You don't think it would make more strategic sense to focus on one earth at a time at all?
Mislynching causes the game to essentially reset and we lose focus of Earth 1.

We will come back to it, but it will be harder as people will mix motivations of Earth 1 and 2 when they could be very different alignments.

[Fire Assassin]

Ah, good point.

If we have more players, it might be a viable strategy, but we don't. We're only 2 MLs away from LyLo and I don't think No Lynch is really worth it.

You assume all kills succeed though, and last version of this game had town protectives in both earths.
Not to mention we can get a guilty result possibly on a player with any investigatives.

[Fire Assassin]

Every time you surrender a lynch, you're trading EV for ~something.~ What is the ~something~?

In the DC iteration of this game, there was a no lynch the first day on Earth 2 because of gladiator shenanigans. I don't think it helped town there.

I think I said possible investigations and for a flip without us going into the alternate earth.
What is your point?

My idea here is if I don't have a strong enough read day 1 to believe it will be scum, I am not compromising lynching.
I want to not transfer to other earth until this place is cleared of scum.

[Fire Assassin]

I think I said possible investigations and for a flip without us going into the alternate earth.
What is your point?

My point is that the cost is more than the benefit here.

I don't agree.

TTH, join the RVS wagon for the lolz!

You're not my supervisor!

Hi Carol or Sheryl, I am your supervisor.

[Fire Assassin]

Alright. So what you think the key to this game is since it's essentially two games in one?

[Fire Assassin]

More activity please.

[Fire Assassin]

Seems inherently worse than playing two micros simultaneously that give you plenty of information about each other

My point on that matter is that players will confuse their reads accross the earths. For example I will townread you for things you do on this earth and then associate that with Earth 2. It makes everything more complex. No lynching can be good if you don't have a good scumread. I am just telling you all, a compromise lynch at the end of the day isn't the best.

And day 1s meta as of late, is to do a horrible compromise lynch and the success rate on lynching scum is very low for that.

[Fire Assassin]

You should keep better notes

You keep notes?
If I am writing notes it gets immediately posted.

[Fire Assassin]

V/LA till Saturday, I am in process of moving

[Fire Assassin]

Sorry guys, haven't been giving this game the attention it deserves.
Catching up now.

[Fire Assassin]

So you think TTH is town because of the dialog with Alabaska, but not Alabaska? What's the reason behind it?

Don't like this post.

Town right now:
TTH
Mcmenno

Leaning Town:
Ircher

Null:
Alabaska

Scum:
Clumsy
Lilith

So 2 people I have no thoughts even as a null.
Interesting.

[Fire Assassin]

VOTE: lilith2013

[Fire Assassin]

kinda died down is a bit weird, but understandable cuz weekend and apathy and low activity thread.

I have been moving....

[Fire Assassin]

Fire --> Neutral Leaning Town --> Some good introductory questions albeit theory-related; this got the game going for awhile and Fire was able to come up for reasonable reasons why he thought 1 way or another even if I do fundamentally disagree with them. The lack of participation after the theory stuff kinda died down is a bit weird, but understandable cuz weekend and apathy and low activity thread.

Lilith --> Leaning Scum --> Has barely done anything in this game. Has yet to provide any actual reads or thoughts despite promised sing to do so.

Clumsy --> Leaning Scum --> Has contributed only very slightly more than Lilith; no evidence of actually trying to scumhunt being seen.

PantherPunt --> Null Leaning Scum --> Practically non-existent in the thread.

Xk --> Neutral Leaning Town --> Seems engaged in the game, but not posting enough; hard to get a confident read on currently.

Alabaska --> Null leaning Town --> ISO is 100% RVS/Theory; while not a bad thing necessarily, Alabaska doesn't seem to necessarily be trying to scumhunt either. I'm thinking town though cuz of the depth of responses, but it's hard to tell atm.

Should I be concerned at all your reads seemed to be mirror copy of mine but with actual reasons posted?
The only exceptions are Xk and Panther added something.

[Fire Assassin]

Lillith, looks like we're scum together again.


Fire, I can understand that you don't have much on Panther, but you don't have a read at all on Xk? They've posted the 3rd most so far.

Want to tell me what game this is your referring too?
Also based on this little statement going to say I am probably wrong about one.

Already was thinking based on the actions of Ircher my reads must be offbased, my reads are rarely aligned with Ircher so it felt weird we agreed on a lot.

Still trying to figure out why.

Also Xky feels slouching this game, he doesn't feel like his normal self to me. I would normally call that scummy, but I think its just circumstances and not anything alignment indicative.

[Fire Assassin]

So you think TTH is town because of the dialog with Alabaska, but not Alabaska? What's the reason behind it?

Don't like this post.

What don't you like about it?

It implies that the dialog between the two should be interpreted as both are town, when thats not how I read it either. I got TTH town more than anything from Alabaska, and I would assume anyone who was reading that would get a similar assumption if they were trying to understand and read into them. He just assumes both should be read as town or something?

It was odd.

[Fire Assassin]

The first dual universe game.

Being inactive isn't alignment indicative and I don't understand why you or Ircher would think it is.

My read on you has nothing to do with activity actually, did you read Ircher posts and believe we had same reasoning?
Your posts and lack of scumhunting are my problems and you jumping on a bad wagon seems like opportunistic.

[Fire Assassin]

I purposefully left my opinion out of it. I'm not saying I think Alabaska is town, I'm actually agreeing with you here that I like TTH for town more than Alabaska for the moment. The only assumption being made is the one you made. I can see how it comes off that way though, but no. Just asking for reasoning.

So what kind of reasoning were you hoping to find?
If you came to same conclusions, what was the point of the question.
In before this was a reaction test.

You got to same conclusions that person got, but you questioned why he didn't get to Alabaska as town, even though you didn't get any of that yourself.
It sounds like bad questioning at best and scum trying to lk busy at worst.

[Fire Assassin]

Theres I believe 2 other people who said they didn't like Lilith and or Clumsy. Yet I am the only one voting either of them.

Instead you have Alabaska wagon that is pretty horrible imo, since I don't think pressuring him will give us much info.
And ircher which is a bad wagon, and has my number one scumread on it.

This should change.

[Fire Assassin]

You should be taking issue with Ircher for scumreading both me AND Clumsy and voting a null-townread instead. Instead you are blaming ??? while still townreading Ircher. How does that even make sense?

Blaming? What do you mean by that.

I believe Ircher is a vanity/possible VI wagon. He gets wagoned literally every game I have ever played with him.
SO you pushing that.
Looks scummy or suspect. He is an easy push for any scum player.

[Fire Assassin]

You should be taking issue with Ircher for scumreading both me AND Clumsy and voting a null-townread instead. Instead you are blaming ??? while still townreading Ircher. How does that even make sense?

Blaming? What do you mean by that.

I believe Ircher is a vanity/possible VI wagon. He gets wagoned literally every game I have ever played with him.
SO you pushing that.
Looks scummy or suspect. He is an easy push for any scum player.

Well you seem to be blaming

someone

for the lack of wagon on me and Clumsy - I don't know who you're trying to blame - but it isn't Ircher, who is the one person who is supposedly scumreading both of the people you think are scum and yet is not voting either of them. And somehow you are still townreading him. For what reason?

He is more likely town based on circumstances of everyone not liking his posts and suspecting him massively.
I don't have a strong personal read on him, I lean town because this is what I feel is similar to town games of him and circumstances of this wagon on him.

[Fire Assassin]

I don't know Ircher's meta.

There are 3 people on his wagon and one more person possibly scumreading him, that's not "everyone."

4 equals nearly 50% of the players.
Either way, theres more than 4 people who seem to be slightly pushing Ircher regardless if there are votes on him.

[Fire Assassin]

VOTE: Clumsy

Good vote, want to go into it anymore?

[Fire Assassin]

So you're saying that trying to follow someone's reasoning and understanding their thought process is bad because I agree with them? Just because I hold a similar opinion does not mean that person is automatically town. I'm not going to tip my hand first when questioning.

No I am saying theres no reason to question someone if you agree with them on something unless you believe they are just forcing that agreement on you.
For instance, say I go into a game and townread X
Then somene says 'OHh I townread X to, but why do you townread him?" I say, well look at this engagement.
They say "Yes, I thought that was town too, but why?"

ALl of this seems fluffy.

I ask questions on people to see why we have different thoughts, and to see if their opinions are sheeping my own. Not to see why they agree with me when they were the first to point something out.

If the engagement went. You townread TTH but don't think Alabaska was town, and then someone agrees with you. Then questioning them makes sense.

Not doing that and just questioning them seems like filler fake scumhunting.
Its not even real scumhunting.

[Fire Assassin]

I don't think I agree with that. It's not about the read being the same, but the reason, especially depending on your read on the person agreeing with you. Scum knows who town is. If they can't come up with a good reason on their reads, that's a red flag. It may seem fluffy to you, but that's how I'm trying to figure things out on page... eight now? We haven't had a whole lot of interaction yet.

Do you often approach the game questioning someones reads when they are similar to yours?
I read the interactions, i read the players read on it, and I agreed with them and I had a deeper reasoning than what they posted, but I didn't think it needed clarification if they had that same reasoning.

I am trying to understand what the purpose is for you to question a read that you have is similar.
Did you think the player was making up reads?

I am nt seeing a purpose of questioning it. It seemed like the least questionable thing on that page right now.

And you saying "we haven't had a whole lot of interaction" is right, but the way you went about trying to generate content looked like busy work, not scumhunting.

[Fire Assassin]

Theres I believe 2 other people who said they didn't like Lilith and or Clumsy. Yet I am the only one voting either of them.

Instead you have Alabaska wagon that is pretty horrible imo, since I don't think pressuring him will give us much info.
And ircher which is a bad wagon, and has my number one scumread on it.

This should change.

Ever consider that you're the one who is wrong?

I always consider that as a possibility. Have you played with me?
Yes, and you have hydraed with me.

UNVOTE: Ircher

VOTE: Fire Assassin

Nice vote.
Want to give a reason?

[Fire Assassin]

personally and think FB is very capable of suggesting that as scum

You have played with me in maybe 1 or 2 games, and you pretend like you know me.
WHats the deal here?

[Fire Assassin]

I disagree with Xk and FA wholeheartedly. Switching between games is to our advantage, and part of that is because from my own experience, being scum in one game and knowing who is town lets me compare the two games to each other, and it's not so much about playstyle as it is having more of an idea of their motivations in both games.

That didn't really articulate what I wanted to say, but close enough.

@lilith

have you played a dual world mechanic before where you were scum in world 1 and town in world 2? can you link it please?

game is here:
DC DUAL

[Fire Assassin]

personally and think FB is very capable of suggesting that as scum

You have played with me in maybe 1 or 2 games, and you pretend like you know me.
WHats the deal here?

some turbos at MU too. I think I have a feel for your playstyle. not pretending I know you.

your play is markedly different this game so far vs what I expect. at least in what I've read thus far.

I play this alt to play a different style.....someone in this game even said that to you.

[Fire Assassin]

your partner McMenno, I believe it was, ya?

My partner?

[Fire Assassin]

your partner McMenno, I believe it was, ya?

My partner?

what on Earth could I be implying?!?

That we were a couple?

if you have daychat tell him to stop lurking and answer my questions plz

He always lurks in games.


Can I ask when you started to suspect we were a team?

[Fire Assassin]

Can I ask when you started to suspect we were a team?

Today.

What do you think of my suspicion?

Odd, I can probably see it though if I squint really hard.

[Fire Assassin]

He is shit posting in the way that I kind of expect from him as town if I am going to be honest.
Though I would like more content form him.

[Fire Assassin]

He is

shit posting in the way that I kind of expect from him as town

if I am going to be honest.
Though I would like more content form him.

so it's a meta read based on shitposting

does he demonstrably not shitpost as scum? how would you characterize the difference you'd expect to see if he was scum here?

He shit posts as both alignments, but its different. I don't know. Its really a gut kind of read. I don't know how to explain it anymore than that.

[Fire Assassin]

ok well I don't like that read putting him in your top 2. and I'm going to choose to believe it's made up for the time being.

I really WANT to be right that you're a scumteam, and despite my read on him being stronger, logic dictates that I should vote you considering you're either a)scum and your read is made up on a scumbro or b)scum and your read is made up because you have TMI that he's town so you just threw it out there bc you thought a read list looked towny and didn't have to think about faking the thought process

Okay, so whats your thoughts on lilith and Clumsy then?

[Fire Assassin]

VOTE: Fire Assassin

though I could be just goating it up and I nailed both. and vote for McMenno. more poasts from him should help me out there

You didn't nail both.
Also what makes you think Mcmenno is scum besides my read related to him?
That seems preflip bad.

And it almost sounds in certain areas you are more confident he is scum than me.

[Fire Assassin]

ok well I don't like that read putting him in your top 2. and I'm going to choose to believe it's made up for the time being.

I really WANT to be right that you're a scumteam, and despite my read on him being stronger, logic dictates that I should vote you considering you're either a)scum and your read is made up on a scumbro or b)scum and your read is made up because you have TMI that he's town so you just threw it out there bc you thought a read list looked towny and didn't have to think about faking the thought process

Okay, so whats your thoughts on lilith and Clumsy then?

?? but town by PoE of you and McMenno being scum- haven't got to any substance posts other than intro and Disney stuff. // and towny independent of my scumreads
respectively

You are that confident its me and Mcmenno? Really?

[Fire Assassin]

they felt a little scummy to me but I am prone to scumreading players like Ircher and they have flipped town a number of times

tldr don't feel like I can get a read on him yet

Is that why you still have a vote on him?

[Fire Assassin]

VOTE: Fire Assassin

though I could be just goating it up and I nailed both. and vote for McMenno. more poasts from him should help me out there

You didn't nail both

.

Also what makes you think Mcmenno is scum besides my read related to him

?
That seems preflip bad.

And it

almost sounds in certain areas you are more confident he is scum than me

.

just you then?

the secret lies within my already posted words

admittedly so. and my reads are independent. they just happen to work together at the moment and thought it'd be a fun line to take when you began interacting with me. you haven't done anything to make me feel any better

Can you stop with the colors, they are kind of an eye sore.

Can you go any deeper in relation to Lilith being town or Clumsy?

[Fire Assassin]

I am voting lilith rn

You are?
I swear you were voting Ircher.

[Fire Assassin]

Somehow I missed that.

[Fire Assassin]

I am voting lilith rn

You are?
I swear you were voting Ircher.

all it takes is a quick click of the ISO button

this is fake

Sure it is.

[Fire Assassin]

PantherPunt has moved to my strongest townread in other news.

[Fire Assassin]

I was going to say a prod dodge, but there really hasn't been much to comment on since last I posted.

[Fire Assassin]

Lynch Lilith and move onto day 2 pls?
Or Clumsy.

I am fine with either, I am fairly certain at least one is scum.

[Fire Assassin]

Alright, I'm willing to hold off on Ircher for today.

VOTE: mcmenno

You are getting lynched today, end of story.

[Fire Assassin]

see, there's a bunch of players that I seem to get a scumread on every game and I can't read them; one of those is ircher. I think I might sort him later

VOTE: lilith

If this is true then why did you push him so hard and scumread him right out of the gate? Shouldn't you have already had this mindset and so approached Ircher without scumreading him for his initial behavior?

It's called confirmation bias. A lot of people don't consider this stuff at first; it's only later that they think about this.

Thats not how confirmation bias.
Confirmation bias is searching for evidence to support your theory without letting the content speak for itself.
She says to read you as null for initial behavior then push you to sort you better after your reaction, not understanding that your behvaior is hard to read regardless and pushing won't help.

[Fire Assassin]

I'm willing to compromise on an FA lynch, I think. Not willing to lynch Clumsy today.

pedit: you're one of those people

I meant come EOD. otherwise we'd be locked into ircher and lilith wagons

ircher is a fairly strong town read for me

vote mcmenno?

So you would be willing to compromise on lilith then?
Since ircher isn't even a real possibility.

fa lynch is not happening today

I am willing to vote ircher over no lynch

Nope, we are doing Lilith or Clumsy, but no one is voting clumsy.

Responding to prod. Gotta leave for work in about 15 minutes, I'll be back later. Real fast, I like Lilith for town, iffy with TTH (posting kind of reminds me of DC Earth-Two TTH, who was scum), and Ircher's tone seems really off to me. I should be back before deadline though, so for now,

UNVOTE:

I want to look more into TTH and Ircher to be specific.

jfc I just saw this unvote on mcmenno so I'm back to a solo vote

someone vote mcmenno

Mcmenno is a terrible wagon.

I'm willing to compromise on an FA lynch, I think. Not willing to lynch Clumsy today.

pedit: you're one of those people

I meant come EOD. otherwise we'd be locked into ircher and lilith wagons

ircher is a fairly strong town read for me

vote mcmenno?

I would have totally joined you on the FA wagon...

Where is this coming from?

ya take a look at mcmenno iso

not sorting people's alignments.

1) bunch of posts about votes on him
2) talking about ircher then backing off of it when it actually got some traction to vote lilith for some really weak stuff (and has not pushed it or engaged her whatsoever afaict...lilith had to engage)
3) hasn't talked about the majority of the player list

conclusion is scum

Your scumreading a playstyle, not actual scum behavior from him.

ya take a look at mcmenno iso

not sorting people's alignments.

1) bunch of posts about votes on him
2) talking about ircher then backing off of it when it actually got some traction to vote lilith for some really weak stuff (and has not pushed it or engaged her whatsoever afaict...lilith had to engage)
3) hasn't talked about the majority of the player list

conclusion is scum

Ok, I'm fine with that.

UNVOTE: Ircher

VOTE: McMenno

Not the Xkyfu I know, this is really suspicious. FoS this guy tomorrow.

@Panther --> You also have to consider different playstyles. Ugh... I'll try to work harder on this today if I have the time....

This

[Fire Assassin]

Alright, I'm willing to hold off on Ircher for today.

VOTE: mcmenno

Terrible vote, and you are once again on a terrible wagon.
Going to do this all game?

[Fire Assassin]

Will not compromise for A town read lynch.
Would you all support clumsy wagon?

[Fire Assassin]

Votecount 1.6

lilith2013 (3) - Fire Assassin, McMenno, Ircher
Ircher (2) - lilith2013, Alabaska J
McMenno (2) - PantherPunt, Xkfyu
Clumsy (1) - TellTaleHeart

Not voting (1) - Clumsy

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch someone.

Ircher will be V/LA every Friday.

(expired on 2016-08-23 08:52:00) remain until day end

8 hours....this would be cutting it close.

I still prefer Lilith, TTH anyway I can convince you join me on this?

[Fire Assassin]

@will deadline be stalled while we wait for Alabaska replacement?

[Fire Assassin]

Where is this coming from?

My willingness to lynch you, and unwillingness to lynch Lilith.

Why are you scumreading me and why are you townreading Lilith?

[Fire Assassin]

Where is this coming from?

My willingness to lynch you, and unwillingness to lynch Lilith.

Why are you scumreading me and why are you townreading Lilith?

All you've done is call every other wagon that isn't Lilith "bad," when Lilith's wagon is the worst one of all. None of the reasoning that I've seen for voting Lilith stand up to any scrutiny. McMenno doesn't even feel strongly about his case against her. You can tell by the way she had to push him to respond to her responses to his case.

Genius this isn't a read this is a discredit which is hilarious because you say all I have done is discredit.

[Fire Assassin]

So I just read Alabaska again for posterity, Clumsy, and FA. I don't want to lynch any of them. xkfyu is super offlimits

If we aren't going mcmenno, then I need to revisit ircher, TTH, and lilith

You said I was scum quite a few times, what's up here?

[Fire Assassin]

Deadline isn't being extended, no one currently needs a replacement.

According to profile he hasn't been online since Friday. This kind of sucks for us all.

[Fire Assassin]

Only other person I am willing to vote today is clumsy.

[Fire Assassin]

Given we have 1 hour left it's unlikely enough will be on for flash wagon on him.
It's Lilith or no lynch.

[Fire Assassin]

Mild townread on TTH not willing to lynch today

[Fire Assassin]

So you think TTH is town because of the dialog with Alabaska, but not Alabaska? What's the reason behind it?

Don't like this post.

Town right now:
TTH
Mcmenno

Leaning Town:
Ircher

Null:
Alabaska

Scum:
Clumsy
Lilith

So 2 people I have no thoughts even as a null.
Interesting.

Like this hasn't changed much for me except panther is strongest town.
TTH is just leaning town.
Xkyfu null lean scum

[Fire Assassin]

Town: PantherPunt, Fire Assassin
Maybe Town: Ircher, Xkfyu
Lower Echelon: Clumsy, Alabaska J, lilith2013, McMenno

I like where PantherPunt's head is at with his McMenno push (specifically Post 202).
Fire Assassin is a lot more lurk-ish and disengaged as scum, which isn't showing up here. I also like his Clumsy push.
At the risk of falling into the "too bad to be scum" trap, I would have to think that Ircher as scum would put a lot more effort into making his reads look "consistent" and match-y than the whole bizarre thing with Panther (Post 247) and Alabaska (Post 132).

Everyone else is meh (except Clumsy, he's scummy).

ircher was outside of your bottom 4...why not push your reads on anyone you have a lesser opinion on TTH?

That is a good question....

[Fire Assassin]

How about Alabaska?

[Fire Assassin]

She did say she had to leave?

That's the only thing you have to comment on?

[Fire Assassin]

I'm saying, it's not necessarily a case of "wow she claimed at a bad time," it might be "town!tth felt there was enough momentum towards her wagon that she would be the lynch and if she wasn't going to be online for the rest of the day anyway then might as well do it now?"

Why is that the only thing

you

have to comment on?

Can we lynch clumsy or Lilith?

[Fire Assassin]

Don't know why I quoted that

[Fire Assassin]

ircher literally seems only feasible lynch at this point.
Not voting him

[Fire Assassin]

Um don't you think if I was scum and TTH was town I would have immediately agreed that it was a scummy thing to do and pushed a lynch on, to quote panther, "possibly the most powerful role in the game"?

Why not? You can NK her anyways, right? What the fuck do you lose by saying she is town?

[Fire Assassin]

ircher literally seems only feasible lynch at this point.
Not voting him

Can you

I don't know

compromise a little bit

I compromise enough in past games. This isn't the phase where I compromise

[Fire Assassin]

Um don't you think if I was scum and TTH was town I would have immediately agreed that it was a scummy thing to do and pushed a lynch on, to quote panther, "possibly the most powerful role in the game"?

Why not? You can NK her anyways, right? What the fuck do you lose by saying she is town?

Well seeing as I am still at L-1... myself?

i repeat.....so????

[Fire Assassin]

VOTE: Clumsy

Flash this

[Fire Assassin]

I need to go to sleep.
Flash wagon pls on clumsy

[Fire Assassin]

I promise to compromise tomorrow regardless of its flip.

[Fire Assassin]

so we're going to lynch someone who won't be here to claim it seems. so apparently claiming anything just saves you from being lynched... in a role madness game...........

Ummm this game isn't role madness

[Fire Assassin]

Ohh wait first post says it is.....

[Fire Assassin]

Last game had about 2-3 PR for each earth?
I was kind of looking at that for hints on roles possible in this.
That's pretty useless now

[Fire Assassin]

so we're going to lynch someone who won't be here to claim it seems. so apparently claiming anything just saves you from being lynched... in a role madness game...........

Not necessarily. But claiming Watcher, and not being counter claimed, does.

It kind of makes it more unlikely there is a watcher with the fact it's role madness.

[Fire Assassin]

How do you figure that?

Never seen a watcher in role madness.

[Fire Assassin]

so we're going to lynch someone who won't be here to claim it seems. so apparently claiming anything just saves you from being lynched... in a role madness game...........

Not necessarily. But claiming Watcher, and not being counter claimed, does.

It kind of makes it more unlikely there is a watcher with the fact it's role madness.

I'm not talking about a hard counter claim. A Tracker or a Follower, or some similar soft counter claim would suffice since there it would be highly unlikely that town has more than one of those types of roles.

Not really?
I don't quite agree with this.
Remember camns game of almost all trackers

[Fire Assassin]

so we're going to lynch someone who won't be here to claim it seems. so apparently claiming anything just saves you from being lynched... in a role madness game...........

Not necessarily. But claiming Watcher, and not being counter claimed, does.

It kind of makes it more unlikely there is a watcher with the fact it's role madness.

I'm not talking about a hard counter claim. A Tracker or a Follower, or some similar soft counter claim would suffice since there it would be highly unlikely that town has more than one of those types of roles.

Not really?
I don't quite agree with this.
Remember camns game of almost all trackers

You aren't really trying to use that game as evidence that there could be two Watcher type roles are you?

I am just saying that you and I have no idea what the setup really looks like, mod said he tried to balance it, but his sense of balance maybe widely different than our own.

I am with you that it should self resolve but I don't think it makes TTH more likely town because no one CC
Also what Lilith said about people not being here.

[Fire Assassin]

Clumsy isn't even feasible at this point since I am only one voting it.

[Fire Assassin]

All four of you would have to move to it

[Fire Assassin]

I feel pretty optimistic also thinking I need to retread Lilith.

[Fire Assassin]

99% sure last scum is Alabaska.

[Fire Assassin]

VOTE: Alabaska

[Fire Assassin]

I doubt quite a bit clumsy would say to Lilith as scum "looks like we are partners again"
That is something there only to make Lilith worse after his flip, they are likely unaligned.

TTH was pushing clumsy all day practically, could have a bus but I have reason to believe to doubt it since she popped up specifically to hammer when nobody expected her too.

Only allies it could be are Xkyfu and Alabaska and Alabaska seems worse especially with associations

[Fire Assassin]

Mcmenno you think cakes put any protectives in this game or you think scum no killed?

[Fire Assassin]

Alright...

VOTE: Ircher

[Fire Assassin]

Who did Ircher try to kill I am wondering?
TTH who did you watch?

[Fire Assassin]

what is the 2-shot ninja?

ninja makes your kills untrackable or seeable.

[Fire Assassin]

we got very lucky on that clumsy lynch. to explain my mcmenno stuff: i thought he softclaimed cop with a guilty on ircher in a post, and was playing spammy to avoid being the subject of a nightkill. his claim rules out that possibilty, and i'm not sure how much i believe him. it might not matter if we have a confirmed scum here.

I hardly think we got lucky on Clumsy beyond managing to get the votes necessary for it.
You thought mcmenno on day 1 soft claimed a cop guilty?

[Fire Assassin]

themeclaim panther?

Your flavor is the same across Earths so you might want to keep that to yourself.

Wouldn't that help us if he is scum in the other Earth though?

[Fire Assassin]

Ircher can you explain the reason you picked TTH as a target for your track, considering you both A) never mention TTH as once being scum, and B) TTH was one of the most staunch supporters of a clumsy lynch.

[Fire Assassin]

Ircher can you explain the reason you picked TTH as a target for your track, considering you both A) never mention TTH as once being scum, and B) TTH was one of the most staunch supporters of a clumsy lynch.

For the above reasons; I don't choose the obvscum canidate cuz they probably aren't going to perform the kill. I choose someone who people arent suspicious of, so as to ruin the "smart" scum's game.

aren't suspicious of? TTH was put up to L-1 at one point. WHat do you mean?

[Fire Assassin]

Ircher lack of awareness is troubling regardless of alignment tbh.

[Fire Assassin]

Any ideas on why Ircher was killed? He's usually at least somewhat scumread, so I don't see why scum wouldn't leave that and take out someone like TTH or FA for example. Seems odd to me.

Probably because me and TTH both rolled scum in this round.

[Fire Assassin]

I am thinking that Ircher death is either a redirection or vigi kill.
Or pure WIFOM.

Won't matter, helps us better since won't have to deal with if Ircher is being scummy town or just scum.

[Fire Assassin]

I am also kind of confused we proceeded directly into night.
I am guessing scum have an ability to skip day that it wanted to use on the onset of the game day?
I don't think theres anything in the rules/setup that indicates that if we lynch right and win a game that the next game starts out at night or goes into night.

[Fire Assassin]

I mean you can also figure that its likely that scum thought ircher wasn't going to be protected during the night (Which I think is a fair assumption)
= Free kill.

It might not be that complicated.

[Fire Assassin]

Scum lean on TTH right now.
Town lean on Clumsy.

[Fire Assassin]

Oh yeah?
Why's that?

Probably because this:

Any ideas on why Ircher was killed? He's usually at least somewhat scumread, so I don't see why scum wouldn't leave that and take out someone like TTH or FA for example. Seems odd to me.

Probably because me and TTH both rolled scum in this round.

Was expecting some reaction from this post.

[Fire Assassin]

Since when did you take me for a mind reader?

[Fire Assassin]

I guess your concerned because that kill looks like something scumFire would do for pure WIFOM?

[Fire Assassin]

Care to expound upon what your self-perceived reaction was? And why you didn't think Clumsy/the issue merited a response?

My thought at the time was that Fire's glossing over the soft to pin a scumread on me showed a "need to fake reads" mentality but I've since mentally moved on from that. That's also why I let the response sort of lapse.

Can I ask why it matters what role you soft? What does that have to do with a read anyways?

Also I picked up the "soft" later, and ignored it as anything but something that would be obvious later and not alignment indicative.

[Fire Assassin]

I would probably have kept quiet about it if my modifier stayed in LYLO but it doesn't so I feel like it's essentially a filler role.
I've had this role once before and I crumbed it in almost the exact same way and nothing horrible happened as a result. I'm also someone who outed as an IC on my first post so maybe I am a tad impulsive but I don't think what I did was badly negative EV.

It just ruins it's potential to help in wagon analysis if you are in fact town. Now that both vote mechanic roles are outed (I don't diagree with Hated claiming) there is no purpose to them.

Thoughts on Alabaska?

why don't you think there are more vote-related roles

I think everyone has one, in fact

I can confirm I have no voter modifications (hated/loved/voteless/votethief)
So, no.

[Fire Assassin]

I would probably have kept quiet about it if my modifier stayed in LYLO but it doesn't so I feel like it's essentially a filler role.
I've had this role once before and I crumbed it in almost the exact same way and nothing horrible happened as a result. I'm also someone who outed as an IC on my first post so maybe I am a tad impulsive but I don't think what I did was badly negative EV.

And this doesn't make you anymore town.
Considering that your voting modification doesn't work in LYLO its a Null as far as setup spec.

I don't like this self reference to past games, where was this in previous earth TTH?

[Fire Assassin]

So, we have a dead Town Double Voter. Doesn't that at least suggest that McMenno, who is hated, town?

Thats not how it works.
If Mcmenno voting mechanic works so that he was hated in LYLO, then mechanically, yes. He would have to be town.
It doesn't.

The voting modifiers are fluff if they don't work in LYLO. So they can be town, scum, neutral, w/e.

[Fire Assassin]

I don't like this self reference to past games, where was this in previous earth TTH?

That was in the context of the conversation with Panther.
Are you alright, Fire?

I am dandy, tell me why I shouldn't be voting you right now TTH.

Can I ask why it matters what role you soft?

There's nothing inherently town about the role but the only times I've ever seen the role used it was town.
While it's not technically correct play, if I saw someone else soft loved my first instinct would be to slightly townread it.

Most vote modifiers I see are given to town and I can't offhand name a game where specifically the game was designed with a scumloved or scumhated in mind. Doesn't really mean there isn't one in here.

I don't instinctly townread modifiers unless its extremely negative utility, such as miller, ascetic, hated (But given how it works here, no).

[Fire Assassin]

So, we have a dead Town Double Voter. Doesn't that at least suggest that McMenno, who is hated, town?

Thats not how it works.
If Mcmenno voting mechanic works so that he was hated in LYLO, then mechanically, yes. He would have to be town.
It doesn't.

The voting modifiers are fluff if they don't work in LYLO. So they can be town, scum, neutral, w/e.

I wasn't talking about in LyLo. I was thinking more along the lines of D1.

Ircher was a double voter, when it takes 5 to lynch (4 for hated). If McMenno is hated, and he's scum, Ircher alone would have controlled half the votes that it would have taken to lynch McMenno.

That would have been very powerful with only a 2-person scum group.

Not really, especially since people who are hated are usually townread for the fact they are hated.
Mechanically it would hurt scum, but since Mcmenno can have various other powerful aspects of his role, for instance lets say he was a 1 Shot Day Vig Hated Mafia, then you wouldn't say "Ohh scum are so weak" you would just think its swingy/weird.

[Fire Assassin]

So what was with you scumreading me in the other other?

[Fire Assassin]

No, it just seemed odd to me.

[Fire Assassin]

I mean, that is why I kept you in my null pile that whole day.

[Fire Assassin]

I have n other scumreads besides TTH right now.
Will someone else be scummy for me?
I would like to find both scum day 1, I was close on day 1 on earth 1.

[Fire Assassin]

I have n other scumreads besides TTH right now.
Will someone else be scummy for me?

How am I scummy?

I can definitely tell you aren't scumhunting right now.

[Fire Assassin]

I am dandy, tell me why I shouldn't be voting you right now TTH.

Seriously?
If you think me answering Panther's post in incriminating, then there's no good answer to that so here's Gumball chasing a laser pointer, enjoy.

I don't instinctly townread modifiers unless its extremely negative utility, such as miller, ascetic, hated (But given how it works here, no).

I've been a scum miller before.
Let's be real for a minute. None of the roles you listed are likely town because of some inconceivable mechanical advantage/disadvantage they impart or because there's no way they wouldn't work as a scum role. They're thought of as likely town because of convention, how often they're used as town versus scum.
(Except ascetic. A scum ascetic would have immunities to investigative and blocking roles so I have no idea why you would automatically townread an ascetic.)

That gumball image is cute.

On the topic of roles, ascetic town is disadvantage to town and they are more likely to first out that modifier than a scum would. Also I haven't seen many scum ascetics. But thats kind of irrelevant to the subject.

[Fire Assassin]

I can definitely tell you aren't scumhunting right now.

You can definitely not because I haven't said any of what I'm thinking about reads.

So you point out not posting your thoughts as you just hiding your thoughts and you are scum hunting?

[Fire Assassin]

I love self referencing.
So what are your reads then TTH?

Who is scum?

[Fire Assassin]

I prefer snarky TTH more.

[Fire Assassin]

Town-Clumsy, Mcmenno

Leaning Town-Xkfyu

Null-Lilith2013, PantherPunt, Alabaska

Scum-TellTaleHeart

[Fire Assassin]

I'm a self-conscious about that after I offended Panther.
I don't want snarky-me ruining the game and making everyone think I'm an awful person.

Well someone has to be Snarky, and I am not that snarky. Most of the time.

[Fire Assassin]

Why don't you agree with my Clumsy read?

[Fire Assassin]

(Is this the part where you say why you're townreading him or do I need to ask for that as part of the "scumhunting" I'm supposed to be doing that unbeknownst to me I'm falling down on?)

Do whateveryou feel is right.

[Fire Assassin]

I actually have legitimate reasons for townreading you and has to do with day start posts.
You might not have "done" much, but you did enough to tell me there was a definite change in something.

[Fire Assassin]

Should I be concerned about Fire's town read on me? I haven't really been doing much yet, work has been kicking my ass (and Overwatch >_>) so I don't know if that read is warranted.

Seems like an odd question to ask.

Not really.

[Fire Assassin]

Votecount 3.3

Alabaska J (2) - PantherPunt, lilith2013
PantherPunt (1) - Alabaska J

Not voting (5) - Xkfyu, TellTaleHeart, Fire Assassin, McMenno, Clumsy

With 8 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch someone.

(expired on 2016-09-12 21:12:00) remain until day end

Anyone want to start a TTH wagon?

VOTE: TellTaleHeart

[Fire Assassin]

I do not believe that I am "up" for a tth wagon atm

Are you "down" for one then?

[Fire Assassin]

Wrecked by work and the weekend is usually shit for me in terms of activity, let alone holiday weekend. But I'll try to stoke something if I manage to catch live interaction with anyone over the weekend.

Am in favor of TTH getting some votes. TTH Alabaska wagons sound nice

my secret skeeve out right now is lilith. and I'm of the opinoin lilith/alabaska is not scum/scum so I'd like to see a lot more out of both of those slots. the townie amongst you shouldn't have trouble showing me it

lilith and TellTaleHeart perhaps?
Lilith, where you at in the game?

[Fire Assassin]

Plan for to prod dodge till a lynch occurs now. Because seriously I posted on th me previous page and still get prodded.
There's nothing to talk about

Lynch anyone I don't care.

[Fire Assassin]

I have ultimately no desire to game solve this day one. I would prefer a lynch and do my night action to help solve this.

[Fire Assassin]

I think we should confirm TTHs love status.
I also have a recent townread of Lilith.

But I am also still apatehtic to this game.
Someone light my fire for me.

[Fire Assassin]

VOTE: TTH

Cute post.

[Fire Assassin]

Can we decide on a lynch at this moment?
I don't have the patience.

[Fire Assassin]

So how about Alabaska?

I am not willing to lynch myself obviously or Lilith.
Would like to lynch TTH but I think thats unlikely to happen.

VOTE: Alabaska

[Fire Assassin]

oh wait, the 2nd mislynch would put us at 2v2. so disregard that. I have to clear one of those people in that list of 4

I am self clearing.

[Fire Assassin]

Scum lean on TTH right now.
Town lean on Clumsy.

I'm pretty concerned you're calling me scum here, Fire.
Fun challenge for you because I'm going to bed now: if you don't know why by the time I wake up, I'm voting you. :3

I guess your concerned because that kill looks like something scumFire would do for pure WIFOM?

This stuck out to me on reread. First post is saying he thinks TTH might be scum (and as far as his posts go, he still does) but then addresses her as if he knows she's town--why would she be concerned by something that scum!fire would do if she were scum and he were town?

This seemed pretty townie to me.

[Fire Assassin]

I don't think we will get anymore out of this day, please vote alabaska to end it.
We are just going at a snail pace at this moment and I don't care for it.

[Fire Assassin]

Motivation at an all time low, but I do have the day off. I'll try to be here with my reread at some point.

This is why we should just lynch.
No one is doing anything but prolonging and dodging the game with no content to speak off.

The only one trying to do stuff is Panther, but I don't feel motivated myself just ot hammer stuff out with him.

We lynch, let night progress. Figure stuff out tomorrow.

Alabaska works unless you can give good reasons why he is town.

[Fire Assassin]

Seriously, just lynch.

[Fire Assassin]

Well that was quick. Not sure there is much of a case on me besides panther's OMGUS. Can someone actually put together something for me to defend or am I doomed to some sort of Kafkaesque mislynching?

I have no townread on you.
That is the reasoning for hwy I am lynching you, and to progress the game forward.

Instead of defending yourself, give your thoughts on other players before you are lynched, but I doubt we are going to switch to anyone.

We need information right onw, and the back and forth is completely gone.
For the game state, you need to go.

[Fire Assassin]

And now we are all just delaying (like I said we were doing)
I give 0 shits about intent.

Someone hammer at this point.

[Fire Assassin]

Waiting on a flip.

[Fire Assassin]

The only people I'm hard townreading are McMenno and Fire.
Gut feeling that Xk and Clumsy are more likely town than not but that's not really based on anything.

Spoiler: Cute video for Fire because he likes cute things

Wasn't really cute.
Is this supposed to represent what is happening to me tonight?

[Fire Assassin]

Cause I am part BP TTH.
Good luck with that.

[Fire Assassin]

Pretty sure its PantherPunt at this point in the game.
I doubt its Lilith, and Xkfyu was pretty early on the wagon for Alabaska.

[Fire Assassin]

These are the people I am completely ruling out today:
Clumsy and Lilith.
Both have hard townreads for me.

So it has to be Xkfyu or PantherPunt.
So I claim "dumb"

[Fire Assassin]

I think its pretty obvious that I am the vigilante. So I will just claim it.
I shot TTH.

So scum shot Mcmenno.

[Fire Assassin]

Ummmm if someone else was Vigi, they would immediately counter claim. We lynch them and then the game should end.
So theres going to be zero counter claims.

Wtf you talking about shooting?

[Fire Assassin]

Still think its Panther.

[Fire Assassin]

Better reads than you?
Based on what?

I shot a town player.

[Fire Assassin]

Clumsy sounding horrible

Lilith sounding horrible

Xkf sounding horrible

Jesus

Clumsy actually just confirms my townread with his horrible opinions on this stuff.
It makes more sense from lost town, but his "ill just follow you" is rather annoying/lazy.
Especially when I pointed out my reads are far from perfect.

Lilith, I had good reason to think based on her picking up some things I said as scummy (which even I thought was scummy) she was townie for it.

So really for me its between you and XKf.
Unless you can make a very very good case on Lilith.

Not lynching Clumsy today.

[Fire Assassin]

Xkyfu thoughts?

[Fire Assassin]

Not lynching Clumsy, someone explain that scumread better.
I think he is obv town this game.

@Panther I am not shooting and no I didn't shoot Xkyfu it was a scum kill.

[Fire Assassin]

Scum may keep me alive if my reads are terrible, but I doubt it.

[Fire Assassin]

This game...

[Fire Assassin]

Part of me is feeling extremely lazy.
I kind of think it might just be Xkyfu or Lilith. I have been feeling townie on Panther so far on this day (though the openning I did feel he was the worst out of everyone).

VOTE: Xkyfu

Lets do it.