Micro 731 | Scumteam UnPick II - Endgame

[Duckdoggo]

Ooo nice tables
VOTE: GuiltyLion

[Duckdoggo]

All Possible Pairings

Pairings
acidphoenix	Vic Sage
acidphoenix	Scylla and Charybdis (hidden heads hydra)
acidphoenix	CommKnight
acidphoenix	GuiltyLion
acidphoenix	Duckdoggo (hydra of Carcalilly and Sergtacos)
acidphoenix	TheBrie
acidphoenix	vungrzlfrys
Vic Sage	Scylla and Charybdis (hidden heads hydra)
Vic Sage	CommKnight
Vic Sage	GuiltyLion
Vic Sage	Duckdoggo (hydra of Carcalilly and Sergtacos)
Vic Sage	TheBrie
Vic Sage	vungrzlfrys
Scylla and Charybdis (hidden heads hydra)	CommKnight
Scylla and Charybdis (hidden heads hydra)	GuiltyLion
Scylla and Charybdis (hidden heads hydra)	Duckdoggo (hydra of Carcalilly and Sergtacos)
Scylla and Charybdis (hidden heads hydra)	TheBrie
Scylla and Charybdis (hidden heads hydra)	vungrzlfrys
CommKnight	GuiltyLion
CommKnight	Duckdoggo (hydra of Carcalilly and Sergtacos)
CommKnight	TheBrie
CommKnight	vungrzlfrys
GuiltyLion	Duckdoggo (hydra of Carcalilly and Sergtacos)
GuiltyLion	TheBrie
GuiltyLion	vungrzlfrys
Duckdoggo (hydra of Carcalilly and Sergtacos)	TheBrie
Duckdoggo (hydra of Carcalilly and Sergtacos)	vungrzlfrys
TheBrie	vungrzlfrys

Below is the above table in code so you can copy/paste and edit the table eaiser!!!

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

[table][row][header]Pairings[/header][/row]
[row][cell]acidphoenix[/cell][cell]Vic Sage[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]acidphoenix[/cell][cell]Scylla and Charybdis (hidden heads hydra)[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]acidphoenix[/cell][cell]CommKnight[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]acidphoenix[/cell][cell]GuiltyLion[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]acidphoenix[/cell][cell]Duckdoggo (hydra of Carcalilly and Sergtacos)[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]acidphoenix[/cell][cell]TheBrie[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]acidphoenix[/cell][cell]vungrzlfrys[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]Vic Sage[/cell][cell]Scylla and Charybdis (hidden heads hydra)[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]Vic Sage[/cell][cell]CommKnight[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]Vic Sage[/cell][cell]GuiltyLion[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]Vic Sage[/cell][cell]Duckdoggo (hydra of Carcalilly and Sergtacos)[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]Vic Sage[/cell][cell]TheBrie[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]Vic Sage[/cell][cell]vungrzlfrys[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]Scylla and Charybdis (hidden heads hydra)[/cell][cell]CommKnight[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]Scylla and Charybdis (hidden heads hydra)[/cell][cell]GuiltyLion[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]Scylla and Charybdis (hidden heads hydra)[/cell][cell]Duckdoggo (hydra of Carcalilly and Sergtacos)[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]Scylla and Charybdis (hidden heads hydra)[/cell][cell]TheBrie[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]Scylla and Charybdis (hidden heads hydra)[/cell][cell]vungrzlfrys[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]CommKnight[/cell][cell]GuiltyLion[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]CommKnight[/cell][cell]Duckdoggo (hydra of Carcalilly and Sergtacos)[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]CommKnight[/cell][cell]TheBrie[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]CommKnight[/cell][cell]vungrzlfrys[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]GuiltyLion[/cell][cell]Duckdoggo (hydra of Carcalilly and Sergtacos)[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]GuiltyLion[/cell][cell]TheBrie[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]GuiltyLion[/cell][cell]vungrzlfrys[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]Duckdoggo (hydra of Carcalilly and Sergtacos)[/cell][cell]TheBrie[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]Duckdoggo (hydra of Carcalilly and Sergtacos)[/cell][cell]vungrzlfrys[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]TheBrie[/cell][cell]vungrzlfrys[/cell][/row][/table]

What is this for? Do I also give my signature so someone knows which head of duckdog was talking?

[Duckdoggo]

What is this for? Do I also give my signature so someone knows which head of duckdog was talking?

That's up to you really.
I think I can work out majority of who's posting what from you two but maybe others won't be able to.

What do you think about Vic Sage not giving his chosen names?

-Scylla

But tbh im so lost with the pairing claims and stuff like that..... can someone care to explain?

[Duckdoggo]

What is this for? Do I also give my signature so someone knows which head of duckdog was talking?

That's up to you really.
I think I can work out majority of who's posting what from you two but maybe others won't be able to.

What do you think about Vic Sage not giving his chosen names?

-Scylla

But tbh im so lost with the pairing claims and stuff like that..... can someone care to explain?

Well, not the pairing claims itself, but the paring the choices and the claims.

[Duckdoggo]

@Creature - if someone was to have submitted SergTacos as their choice, would you have counted that as invalid or counted it as Duckdoggo?

I counted Sergtacos/Carcalilly as Duckdoggo.

So meaning some people here got random heads?

[Duckdoggo]

But tbh im so lost with the pairing claims and stuff like that..... can someone care to explain?

Well, the list given in 9 is a list of all possible scum teams.
We are now all saying who we chose as scum teams to determine what scum combinations there can be.

Who did you choose as your 2 scum teams?
Once we know this, we can add it to the table and from there, going by scum reads, we can decide who to vote.

*Fixed*

-Charybdis

The game just started and there has been 2 pages, isn't it a bit too early to determine the 2 scum teams? Or am i not understanding your question or what you're trying to say?

[Duckdoggo]

I seriously don't understand the parings.

[Duckdoggo]

My picks were
commknight + Scylla and Charybdis
Vic + The Brie

[Duckdoggo]

Tacobutt, we chose members that we DIDNT want to be on a scumteam together
So basically, if we all claim, we can eliminate all the possible scum teams.

[Duckdoggo]

Tacobutt, we chose members that we DIDNT want to be on a scumteam together
So basically, if we all claim, we can eliminate all the possible scum teams.

OHHH I see!

[Duckdoggo]

I'm willing to sheep this because I'm too lazy to do the analysis myself
VOTE: vic

And ig don't worry too much about Day1 being abnormal. People will probably defend themselves and others the best they can, so we can prob still work on those.

[Duckdoggo]

I'm willing to sheep this because I'm too lazy to do the analysis myself
VOTE: vic

And ig don't worry too much about Day1 being abnormal. People will probably defend themselves and others the best they can, so we can prob still work on those.

this is a bad and lazy vote, I think vic is town

UNVOTE:

VOTE: duckdoggo

Obviously
Is it bad just because you townread them?

[Duckdoggo]

Nah, probs not scum. Just stupid.

In order to be sure that none of the people he cleared is scum, we need to either lynch scum (which would be the point of lynching based on scum/townreads) or lynch me, ap, S&C, and one of his clears, and have all of those flip town.



So we have to lose, but we'll be absolutely sure of the scumteam if we do.

On the other hand, GL and CK both seem fairly town to me for scumhunting reasons.

I can't really recall my other games where someone said something about scumhunting other than my first newbie game which was like 2 months ago I believe. Anyway, so there was a player who was scum and said stuff about other people are scumhunting so they don't look scummy to him, and I was like, no way this guy is scum my gut told me the opposite but yeah, just saying, I'm not putting you or anyone in my strong town list just because someone mentions that another player is scumhunting=town. scumhunting= pro town, correct. but of course a scum would have to play as town but there is a tactic that scum use, which is to have other towns feel praised by someone (typically scum) in order to be pocketed.

Catching on the posts, so please don't assume this is like a finalize post I made overall from my absent, I just want to point out that you mentioning other people are town ish because of scum hunting is a little pinging for me. It could be the fact that I lost in that game and got scarred for it. If you're sided with town, hope you can understand.

-ST

[Duckdoggo]

Catching up*

[Duckdoggo]

Hey hey hey!

Table is practically useless until we get a scum flip or we get to a lylo situation, both of which are not gonna happen during d1 - so let's drop it now and never speak of it again today?

I'm okayish with my "old" vote but in case if I need to refresh it VOTE: CommKnight

The table won't help us right now? how come? Could you explain to me the examples/situations how the table won't help and can only be of a help later on? I mean I know it can help later on but why not now?

I'm new to this kind of theme and first hydra as well, so excuse me for my noobness.

[Duckdoggo]

Yup I was talking to Doggo. I don't think calling a self proclaimed lazy vote lazy and voting them for it is terribly hardworking either though, so meh.

I don't see any merit in rushing the first lynch as we are not going to get any information out of it.

A first lynch with a chart what we have now won't get information?

Ok now im lost, then whats the point of the table?

-ST

[Duckdoggo]

I like Kingmaker's entrance

town: {S&C, Kingmaker, Vic}
null: {The Brie, vung-slot-that-hasn't-posted-yet}
scummier than null: {CK, DuckDoggo}

Curious why do you think I'm scum?

[Duckdoggo]

I like Kingmaker's entrance

town: {S&C, Kingmaker, Vic}
null: {The Brie, vung-slot-that-hasn't-posted-yet}
scummier than null: {CK, DuckDoggo}

Curious why do you think I'm scum?

Oh nvm, lazy voting, gotcha. Man i need to start saying -st so yall dont get confused xD

[Duckdoggo]

Hey hey hey!

Table is practically useless until we get a scum flip or we get to a lylo situation, both of which are not gonna happen during d1 - so let's drop it now and never speak of it again today?

I'm okayish with my "old" vote but in case if I need to refresh it VOTE: CommKnight

The table won't help us right now? how come? Could you explain to me the examples/situations how the table won't help and can only be of a help later on? I mean I know it can help later on but why not now?

I'm new to this kind of theme and first hydra as well, so excuse me for my noobness.

Partnership analysis without no flip info is completely basing your thoughts on assumptions - if those assumptions are false then all your analysis was useless and you were only biasing yourself to one outcome and ignoring all the others.

This mechanic(and the table we have thanks to it) only helps us at partnership analysis, which should be avoided until we have confirmed alignment flips. Before that, not actually useful.

Yup I was talking to Doggo. I don't think calling a self proclaimed lazy vote lazy and voting them for it is terribly hardworking either though, so meh.

I don't see any merit in rushing the first lynch as we are not going to get any information out of it.

A first lynch with a chart what we have now won't get information?

Ok now im lost, then whats the point of the table?

-ST

First lynch of day 1 does not flip immediately hence we won't get information from it until end of day 1.

Ohh ok. When will the table be useful?

Ah I read the post wrong xD thought it said something like if we lynch right now we get no info but like ohhh i see now, its if we lynch right now very soon we get no info. yeah, thats true.

[Duckdoggo]

Yup I was talking to Doggo. I don't think calling a self proclaimed lazy vote lazy and voting them for it is terribly hardworking either though, so meh.

I don't see any merit in rushing the first lynch as we are not going to get any information out of it.

I just realized I don't understand the second half of that. Are you saying that if we would get information, we should rush it?

Got confused with the second half too lol.

I believe it meant, if we rush the lynch we will not get the information we want compared to not lynching someone that quickly in order to see who says what and analyze as much as possible.

Basically, more time=more posts=more info. Less time=less posts=less info.

[Duckdoggo]

-ST ^^

[Duckdoggo]

The sheep is right, probably better to speculate with the unpicks after a while.
Right now, nobody really sticks out as scummy to me, so I'm going to keep my vote.

And Comm looks more townie in this game than what I've seen before.

Also, yes I realize that was a lazy sheep. No duh. It's my way of showing that I agree with you.
Why would I take the time to make my own table when you guys already did it? If anything it would just be useless and lamisty.

-C

[Duckdoggo]

About comm,
In my opinion they're just less awkward here than other games I've seen them in.

Also, consistency between heads probably is more of a town tell than a scumtell. Hydras have a PT, and if they're scum, they'd probably be way more careful.

Tacobutt and I will always have a buddy-buddy feel, and y'all gotta get used to it.

-C

[Duckdoggo]

I can't really recall my other games where someone said something about scumhunting other than my first newbie game which was like 2 months ago I believe. Anyway, so there was a player who was scum and said stuff about other people are scumhunting so they don't look scummy to him, and I was like, no way this guy is scum my gut told me the opposite but yeah, just saying, I'm not putting you or anyone in my strong town list just because someone mentions that another player is scumhunting=town. scumhunting= pro town, correct. but of course a scum would have to play as town but there is a tactic that scum use, which is to have other towns feel praised by someone (typically scum) in order to be pocketed.

First. It's page 5. My reads aren't set in stone.

Second. Scumhunting reasons refers to "I'm doing things about scumhunting, not mechanics, and I think these two are town because of it." Not "These two are town because they're scumhunting."

Third. Why didn't either of you respond to the mechanics conversation on the first page? I could understand not wanting to claim for mechanics reasons. I could understand claiming for mechanics reasons. I can't understand sitting there and doing nothing while everyone around you claims and talks about mechanics. Please explain to me what your thought process for 14 was.

Yes I'm aware your reads aren't in stone, mine isn't either.

To your third- If you read my posts, I said I had no idea how the table works and stuff like that and my idea of mechanics for this game=nada. But will look at post 14 and respond.

[Duckdoggo]

Town:
GuiltyLion
CommKnight

vungrzlfrys
TheBrie
Kingmaker

Scylla and Charybdis
Duckdoggo (hydra of Carcalilly and Sergtacos)

This is where my reads stand, btw. Both Brie and KM came across as polite and theory heavy so far, need to take a better look at them.

S&C seems to want to blend into the background. Very manipulative tone and I'm not seeing much of an attempt at solving the game from them.

DD is pretty clear as to why I want them dead and gone.

CK is too angry about people wanting to do things he doesn't see as optimal to be anything other than town. Like, if I'm scum I argue the best play for town and then get really happy if people ignore it. You don't get mad at people for playing in a way you think is anti town.

GL gets to be town because he's playing the game with a clear and valid logic. I can understand the point he's trying to make in every single one of his posts so far (with the exception of the CK read) and can see why he as town is trying to make it.

Why am I that of a strong scum read to you? I seriously see no good explanation points and arguments from you. Your argument is weak. Maybe it isn't because I'm a strong scum to you (AKA you scum).

Again, keyword=maybe.

And you said your reads aren't in stone, however you said your vote on me was a serious vote, conflict much? Please do explain. Is it because you don't want others to see your vote ISN'T in stone so that is why you said that ALTHOUGH your vote on me was serious you said and your argument is weak.

"Talk about the mechanic"



Again, I have no clue of what to do about the mechanic of the game but I did claim.

-ST

[Duckdoggo]

Townish:

Vic, his reasoning mostly seems good.
Guilty, also good content and reasoning. Makes the game hard because he and Vic don't agree.
Kingmaker, not so active, but asks good questions and seems to know what he's thinking.

Nullish:

Comm, I could swing either way with him. I liked him at first and now I don't, but I can see good reasons for him being and not being scum.
Vung, well duh. I really think he should have been replaced before now.

Scummish:
Scylla and Charybdis, besides what I've said before there's a little gut feeling here.
Duckdoggo, Maybe I just don't like hydras? They've not put much behind their vote on Comm.

However I doubt they're scum together. It just doesn't feel right. So I've missed something.

My vote is on Vic, not on Comm.

-ST

[Duckdoggo]

Sorry, had no wifi over the weekend and wasn't expecting my other head to be absent too.
Will catch up now.

-ST

[Duckdoggo]

About comm,
In my opinion they're just less awkward here than other games I've seen them in.

Also, consistency between heads probably is more of a town tell than a scumtell. Hydras have a PT, and if they're scum, they'd probably be way more careful.

Tacobutt and I will always have a buddy-buddy feel, and y'all gotta get used to it.

-C

Hydra dissonance is a real tool that can be used at any opportunity to look like town by scum. "Look at this thing we disagree on, we clearly discuss our reads!" Is definitely an easy way to look like you have reads.

That's taking it to a WIFOM level.

-C

[Duckdoggo]

@DuckDoggo

That(137) was a horrible post. Instead of giving Vic(or anyone else) a reason to read you as town, you basically attacked him and your reasoning behind it is off as well. Seriousness of a read and a read not being set in stone are not mutually exclusive,

no one's

read should be set in stone right now - we are 6 pages into the game and one of the players haven't even showed up yet! That does not stop the reads from being serious though?

Why are you only tunneling on Vic, he is not the only one who is suspicious of you? Why did you vote him in the first place, out of 5 people who had same amount of probable partnerships? Why did you dodge my first question on this, only to attack Vic over his suspicion on you and do...nothing else? Where are your reads - you must have some reads as you said your reads are not set in stone?

You've effectively scumhunted as much as Vung at this point. From my point of view you are either unmotivated towny with very little will to play or scum who is barely trying - in either case I see

no reason

you should not be lynched.

1. Attacking still gives information
2. I feel most comfortable with my vote where is it now. It could be gut, but I'm just comfortable. Vics posts actually do tick me off.
3. I don't need to "give people a reason that I'm town" I can just share my opinions and give insight and I've done my job.
4. Because they also voted vic, and a vote wagon is the way to push.
5. You're probtown. S&C looks town. Radiant is probtown.
6. It's a waste of a lynch but if we're causing that much of a problem... Lol.

-C

[Duckdoggo]

WHY DID YOU GUYS LYNCH COMM

-c

[Duckdoggo]

You guys are seriously looking in the wrong place.
If you lynch me and comm flips town you all owe us an apology.

-c

[Duckdoggo]

Wait lol was that a hammer?

I'm VT

-c