Open 714: Tit for Tat [Game Over]

[pinturicchio]

@pintu: My push on NSG was worthless. It was very explicitly a reaction test. If NSG is town, scum would just know that she's town and would probably come out as town under pressure. Not a wagon they want to be found on. Aneninen is not so easily sortable by pressure.

And yeah, I do think scum jumped on the Gamma wagon at some point. And yeah, I do know I'm one of those votes.

Are you scumreading me, or pointing out that I should be scumreading myself here?

I was pointing out that, by your logic, it would be more reasonable to go for someone who jumped on a wagon than someone whose wagon didn't get momentum because "scum didn't want to vote him". Aneni's case (as pointed out by Aneni himself) has no explanation at all, why would town jump there? Gamma's case, on the other hand, had some good arguments so it would be easier to jump there for scum. I'm not saying you are one of those scums; I'm actually thinking mutant could be scum on that jump and he had to build his case against him AFTER jumping and not BEFORE jumping. BUT, on my point of view, I can't get much information from that, as I am still scumleaning Gamma (not scumreading any more, tho).
So, my point is: could it be a better wagon than Aneni's wagon right now? What is it about Creature and A50 that you trust them so much? If you think scum jumped on the Gamma wagon, shouldn't a mutant wagon have more sense at this point?

[mutantdevle]

Mutant

His opening gut-pinged me a bit.

I do find his apparent surprise that people suspected his self-vote odd as well - Such an opening could be townie if it's intended to move the game forward by deliberately drawing such suspicion on himself, but to dismiss such suspicion clearly means this wasn't his intention.

Up until being informed about its purpose in this game, I had been under the impression that all RVS votes were pure jokes. As such, every single RVS vote I have made in every game I have played has been joke based. So I didn't expect anyone to draw reads from my self-vote because I thought it would be 100% interpreted as a joke. It's now been explained to me that RVS isn't just a joke and is more intended to start the game off I'll likely be less jokey with RVS in future games.

167 - Mutant said he likes the discussion between me and Math as we're both players he'd like to sort, but I don't believe he ever goes on to comment on our discussions or openly attempt to sort us? He says he distrusts me here but doesn't specify why.

Since my first game on this site I've tended not to explain reads unless either asked to or that player is in discussion. So just as a note for all future games, just ask me about things and I'll be fully transparent about them. Your discussion with Math didn't really have too much of a definitive conclusion for me tbh as most of it seemed like pointless back and forth. I came out of it with a town lean on math and scum lean on you but I feel that's more to do with your playstyles than anything else. I think I'm always going to naturally distrust you at the start of games due to the aggressiveness of your playstyle.

185 - So basically Mutant was going to unvote as soon as Anen said something? It just seems like a pointless move on Mutant's part.

I'd have kept my vote on if I didn't like Anen's response in a scummy way but yeah, admittedly, that was a pointless vote. My pressure votes usually are. That's why I don't tend to vote unless it's to get the target of my vote lynched as I know my votes often have little or no impact.

399 - Has me down as a 'scum-lean' even though he's not commented on me at all other than to say he 'distrusts me', without actually saying why he distrusts me. His whole attitude to the Math v Luca things just feels really lazy to me. I don't know why he's townreading Anen - that doesn't match-up with what he's posted so far. I don't like how he's repeatedly following Math this game either.

I explain my scum lean on you above. I don't think of you as scum anymore though. You're null to me now. I'm beginning to trust you more but not as easily as last game. Our last game I started trusting you because I agreed with a lot of what you said - I don't feel that so much here. Though reading people off of shared opinions is probably a bad outlook on a game as it makes me susceptible to being pocketed; I acknowledge that but still fall for it :/ As for Anen, my read on him has changed. Though that should be obvious by my comments on him. I initially town read him because his first interactions with me reminded me of my interactions with A50 in stack the deck where I scum read him despite a legit bodyguard claim, so I thought that my first instinct that he was scummy would be flat out wrong like it was with A50. But now I'm leaning towards my instinct a little more.

469 - He's talking about doing stuff but not actually doing stuff. I don't see why he has to wait for NSG to post before pushing Gamma.

I didn't want my Gamma case to distract from sorting NSG. Creature is someone who is easily sorted once a decent amount of time has passed but it felt like we were zeroing in on NSG at the time. If I had started pushing Gamma at that point it would have pulled attention away from Math's attempts to read them and I wanted my push to be exactly that, a push, not a counter to NSG.

650 - I don't like the confidence of his Math townread. Myself and others have repeatedly pointed out reasons why Math is scummy, which Mutant has ignored.

I don't really agree with the reasons Math is being scum read tbh and I don't feel the need to strongly defend him over them either, hence why I've ignored most of it. The 'scummy' things are pretty much just Math's gambits. I can understand why he'd be scum read over these things as they make sense to be coming from scum but I don't see it as that and believe what he says about them so that makes him town to me.

[mutantdevle]

I'd like an updated readslist from Mutant soon.

As per all my reads lists, if you want any 1 read explained then you just have to ask.

Town:

MathDino

-0

Town Lean:

TheGoldenParadox

-0

Pinturicchio

^1

Creature

^2

Null:

jmo16mla

-0

Luca Blight

^1

northsidegal

^1

Scum Lean:

JaydragonKing

v2

Aneninen

v2

Scum:

Gamma Emerald

-0

I'd actually just like to explain my Jay read in particular. Right now they feel really forgettable. I had to ISO Jay just to see what they had even been saying over the last few pages and, honestly, 582 I feel is the last time they made a decent post. Since then it's been pure fluff and minor input. I know Jay to be quite fluffy which is why I paid no attention to it previously but now that I've realised there is barely any contribution in between the fluff which feels like Jay is really disengaged and has nothing to contribute.

[mutantdevle]

let's play a game, everyone – someone tell me the difference between this post:

Spoiler:

Well well well, let's start the hunting.
About GDP: too much scum coming from him. Added to what I said before, post 298, where he tell us his lynch pile, is basically what a somewhat townread at that point, Ghostlin, said. This was noted by Querty a few posts later, and I really like that he did, because is a fair point, and I was having trouble reading him (Querty) until that point. GDP also puts in L-1 over sheep and Red in different occasions without giving explanations beforehand.

About Cabd: there's a post where Querty said something fantastic about this game: "pizza is lurking and eat each other's livers...". Yeah, pretty much, this game is nuts, everyone is hitting everyone, so is difficult to see between this mess who is scum. And then there is Cabd, the IC. He doesn't need to interact so much because we are in page 31 on day one, that's a great newbie game! But, as Querty said about Pizza, a great strat in a game with this much interaction is staying away from it. I get it: you don't want to engage too much in a Newbie Game, but you shouldn't be the one saying "sometimes I get misslynched for this", that sounded like "don't lynch me because I'm not engaging". If you are town and people is suspecting about you for not engaging, then... Engage, haha.

About Jodaxq: I don't really like her playstyle. She does a lot of questions, and that creates a lot of content for reading people, but where is your own content so we can read you? You just ask everyone about their actions or say if you like what they say or not. Would love to see your actual readings right now. That being said, I think your questions have played a significant role for town, so I'm inclined to believe that you are in fact trying to help.

About Cheeky: I like what I see from her, but not that much for townreading her. I just read 31 pages and can't really remember something that caught my attention, just a general idea about her being townish.

About Querty: as I said, first pages I thought he was being scummy, but after he stood in front of GDP, I really think he's town. Sure, it's really easy to make a case on a player who is being attacked by everyone, but Querty gave thoughtfull readings about him, not just repeating what someone else was saying with other words.

About Ghostlin: same as Cheeky, but better. Loved his first posts, I think all my reads were really close to what he said. I'm not implying that if he reads the same as me, he is conftown; what a mean is, his posts made sense to me. A lot.

About Gamma: Sorry, but you have in your bag Red's playing. That's not necessarily bad, tho: I read Red like a scummy town, and when you got in I read you as town too. But, as I said, Red makes you a null for me now.

About Brassherald: didn't really like Sheep's playstyle, and you are too early to read, so let's make it a null.

TL;DR:
Townreads: Ghostlin and Querty
Townleans: Cheeky and Jodaxq
Null: Brassherald and Gamma
Scumreads: GDP and Cabd

and this one:

Ok guys, I've tried to be as fast as I can, but this game is much more fast paced that I thought it was. I've been reading though, and I have some thoughts I want to share. I think the best way I can do this post without using a whole page is doing a summary of my reads and then a spoiler with bigger and better explanations.

First of all, my townreads (in this order): Luca, GoldenParadox and Mathdino.

Spoiler: Townreads

I'm now very sure Luca and Mathdino are just obsessed with each other and their 1v1 is more like egos fighting than scumhunting (or townhunting, whatever you like more). Luca is my most townread now because he could have backed off when the 1v1 was over, but he went for it again. Why doing that when there's much more easier targets to mislynch than Dino? And from Dino's perspective, 1v1ing Luca is a bad idea too; Luca's like a bulldog, he bites and doesn't release his prey no matter what. Getting in an argument with him, with how agressive and persuasive he is, is certainly a bad idea as scum, unless he really loves smelling his own farts and think he can get towncred by "winning" the 1v1, which is a possibility, but when Luca flips green (if), that towncred would do a 180 turn. I'm only giving less towncred to Dino because of the possibility of trying to be the townleader as scum, something I try to do when I play IRL, but he's nowhere near in my suspects radar. PARANOIA MODE ON: if Luca and Dino are both scum and they are trying to put themselves against each other as antagonists, I already lost this game. PARANOIA MODE OFF.
tl;dr: this 1v1 reminds me a lot of Death Note; you just want to be right for the sake of it. The difference is that this is not a Light Yagami vs L, but an L vs L, which would be an interesting anime if you ask me.

About GoldenParadox: something I noted from our last game where he was scum is that he reacts very poorly to pressure and being scumread, and he also tried to mislead town with a lot of going all over the place. Here's different: much more measured reads, and he's criticizing Dino for something he did a lot in that game (Newbie 1849). "Hey, I do tend to be flip floppy when I'm scum, and Dino is being flip floppy... Maybe he's scum!". It's not uncommon to do that reasoning, even if it's bad reasoning. Also, Golden is the only player I have read in many other games, and if I remember correctly, I always got his alignment right except for one time where he fakeclaimed being VT. He's not a good scumplayer; at this point of the game I would already noticed something weird, but there's nothing I find scummy in him. He's behind Luca only because I need more posting from him to be completely sure.

Townleans: NSG, Jay and Creature (in this order, too).

Spoiler: Townleans

I need more content from NSG to sort her out, but I'm giving her towncred for her reaction to her wagon, specifically to her confrontation with Dino. NSG not posting doesn't tell me anything bad about her; on the contrary, if she was scum, she would be worried being in the same game with Dino, knowing that he would possibly go over her to sort her at the beginning of the game. Between "I don't want to be sorted by Dino, I will just lay down and wait to see what happens" and "I'm busy", I'm inclined to believe the latter than the former.

My townlean on Jay is abstolutely a gut read and because of the reads on her of more experienced players than me. I think she hasn't contributed a lot, BUT her lynchpool post in 312 seems thoughtful and real.

I have two main reasons to believe Creature is town, but both aren't good enough to townread him and I'm not trusting myself in this: first, a lot of players have said he is a bad scum player, so the louder players (like Dino) would have sorted him out at this point of the game or at least begin pushing him. I know Dino wanted to do a NSG vs Creature wagons, but he pushed NSG instead of Creature and he hasn't gone over Creature even when he came back with a lot of content; the second reason is a longshot and I preffer not to discuss it for now.

Nulls: jmo, Almost50 and Aneninen (again, in that order).

Spoiler: Nulls

I had to ISO jmo to remember why I gutread him as scum, and he got out of that read with two posts: 240 and 253. I can't see scum motivation to explain why two players can't be on the same team, and his push on Gamma seemed real. The problem is, he hasn't given much more content, and he could be fencing now that "loud" players are townreading him, but he's closer to a townlean right now. Almost too troll to read, I don't know his meta so there isn't much content to know what he's going for. Aneninen, on the other hand: I really don't like his playstyle; I've seen other players doing what he's doing and I always gutfeel they're scum. He makes long posts with a lot of doubt of everyone else's posts, but doesn't really engage with anyone, even when he has a lot of scumleans and scumreads. Feel like he makes a lot of content but not trying to solve the game. BUT, as I said, I always think this is scummy, and I've read games where I was really wrong about this type of players, so I think I'm a little biased.

Scumlean: mutant.

Spoiler: mutant

His "I don't conform to site meta. I usually look more an more townie" still seems scummy to me. I agree with Creature saying he seems fence sitting, his posts aren't that thoughtful, and saying he's interested in jumping on NSG wagon without really doing it was weird as hell. There's only one reason I'm not scumreading him: I feel like his reads are outdated, so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt until I see where is he now.

Scumread: Gamma.

Spoiler: Gamma

I have to talk about myself first to explain this: If I were someone else, I would be at least nullreading myself for how I have played at this point. I'm lurking a lot, have some awkward posts, tend to post only if I'm being alluded, and this is completely different to my playstyle in Newbie 1849: there, I was giving thoughtful reads, catching up every time I could, going all over the place and, in summary, helping to solve the game. Because of this, I expected at least a call for attention from Gamma, but he instead went to defend me telling everyone I'm new to the site and shouldn't be pushed if I'm inconsistent or not being gamesolvey. I felt pocketed, as he pocketing the newbie who said some posts ago that was having trouble with his reads and would "follow the leader" if necessary. Pocketing a newbie seems an easy task, and implies having two votes instead of one when an important decision must be done.

I'm doing this long post mostly because I fell behind this game as there has been a lot of meta readings and strategy aroun this kind of reads, so there's nothing much I could talk about during those conversations. With this, I'm expecting to be engaged so I can contribute with more content and help everyone sort me and help me sorting everyone.

May I just ask, what was the point you were trying to make here? I don't think a conclusion was ever reached.

[TheGoldenParadox]

I'd like an updated readslist from Mutant soon.

As per all my reads lists, if you want any 1 read explained then you just have to ask.

Town:

MathDino

-0

Town Lean:

TheGoldenParadox

-0

Pinturicchio

^1

Creature

^2

I'm sorry, can you explain your read on dino? I see he gets townread a lot for just playstyle so I want to clear that up. Just like I get scumread a lot for the same.
What does the -0, ^1, ^2, and v2 mean?

Null:

jmo16mla

-0

Luca Blight

^1

northsidegal

^1

Scum Lean:

JaydragonKing

v2

Aneninen

v2

Scum:

Gamma Emerald

-0

I'd actually just like to explain my Jay read in particular. Right now they feel really forgettable. I had to ISO Jay just to see what they had even been saying over the last few pages and, honestly, 582 I feel is the last time they made a decent post. Since then it's been pure fluff and minor input. I know Jay to be quite fluffy which is why I paid no attention to it previously but now that I've realised there is barely any contribution in between the fluff which feels like Jay is really disengaged and has nothing to contribute.

[TheGoldenParadox]

sorry I put this in the wrong place
I'm sorry, can you explain your read on dino? I see he gets townread a lot for just playstyle so I want to clear that up. Just like I get scumread a lot for the same.
What does the -0, ^1, ^2, and v2 mean?

[JaydragonKing]

The arrows next to the numbers show the fall or jump in placements. The V2 on me shows that he town-leaned me before but never he scum-leans.

[mutantdevle]

The symbols and numbers represent how they've changed since my last reads list. ^# is how many places they've moved up, -0 means they're still in the same position, and v# is how many places they've moved down.

math is making a lot of sense for me with what he is doing. I agree with a lot of what he is saying and he is making a real effort to sort people. I don't agree with a lot of the reasons you scum read him though I do understand why you could be. I believe what he says is true about the intent behind is gambits and reaction tests. I can't deny that I'm probably giving him town points for his playstyle but I have been trying to keep an open mind about that. I'm usually able to tell if I am being biased and I don't feel like I am here.

[Mathdino]

i have yet to find a way to properly gambit as scum tbh

not that it's a trust tell, just that i'm still trying to improve my scumgame

[Mathdino]

towngames are more a playground to me

get to do whatever the fuck i want within reason

[JaydragonKing]

Get to be if ignored by mutant even though he said he wanted content from me and I responded and explained his list to Golden for him.

Wish you luck on your future scum endeavors though, Dino. Just glad it's not this game.

[mutantdevle]

I clicked submit and saw your post was there but couldn't be bothered to edit my post so I just posted it anyway.

And by content I mean specifically scum hunting content.

[JaydragonKing]

You ever heard of

Laissez-faire

, Mutant?

[Creature]

lol when you read someone's "rage post" with a bored voice tone while picturing someone with a bored face writing it. Yet you don't know if you should stand away or push further.

[Creature]

The only person who has acutally POSTED a case about me was Gamma. I gave answers. Isn't it strange that he's not on my wagon?

Still, that's interesting.

[Creature]

Sorta read Anen's "rage post" almost entirely.

Gonna see where I can follow.

[Creature]

Spoiler: Compare this from Mutant's Town game:

Hey, so here are my reads that nobody asked for:

Yuria - Slightly scummy in my opinion. They only have 2 posts and they avoided a question with another question. Whilst this stuff isn't really a scum tell overall they don't seem that useful to the town so I would be up for lynching them since we don't know much day 1.
Ectomancer - Whilst I'm split on the tell of their tactic to force wagons on us, they seem fairly reasonable and like someone who is willing to at least contribute a lot. So at the moment, I think they are worth keeping around.
IceGuy - I don't really get many vibes from him of either alignment. I don't really see why there are votes against him.
DeasVail - He seems very friendly. To the point where I would derp clear him as town. Though this is mafia, so a nice guy approach might just be a facade.
Transcend - His posts consist of a whole lot of nothing and some of them are somewhat misleading. The only credit I could give them right now is that they are active. But the slight scumminess in the lack of sense that they are writing means I would be comfortable lynching them at this stage.
Fishythefish - I trust the fishy for now. I would like to see him post a little more though as I feel like he has more to offer than what we've seen so far.
Elmo TeH AzN - Her posts are short and brief which isn't too useful. I don't think there is anything scummy about her, but due to her lack of meaningful contribution, I would be willing to lynch them day 1.
Luca Blight - Another player that seems reasonable in what they are saying. I feel like he has a way of seeing wider logic which I think is useful late game.
kelbris - I like his logic and how he offers his opinion into the discussion. He is a seemingly useful player that I would not be comfortable lynching day 1.
sheepsaysmeep - He seems rather unnoticeable to me. Before isolating his posts I only thought he had 1. Other than that they seem okay though.
havingfitz - I don't like how he passively suggested Transcend revealed being the IC so early in the game. Pretty scummy if you ask me. Whether or not they are indeed mafia I think this kind of bad thinking wouldn't be helpful to town in the long run so I'd be willing to lynch them day 1. Despite this, they do seem like they would be helpful.
Lil Uzi Vert - He has not been helpful in anyway whatsoever. Hist posts are literally just an introduction, votes, and a single emoji. Based on how I vote on day 1 lynches, which if you haven't noticed is more based on usefulness than it is scum tells, he is the person I would be most prepared to lynch.

mutantdevle - He seems like an utter noob which can get annoying. Not sure what to make of this guy.

davesaz - They haven't spoken in a long time. I'd like to see them speak more.




Btw my attitude towards day 1 lynches is, since we don't know much, I prefer to lynch based on how useful I think the players will be. The only time I really move away from this is if either someone makes a proper slip and we can actually be fairly confident that they are actually scum or the pressures of time means that I'd have to vote for somone I am not really okay with lynching but still think it is worth losing them in order to not end the day in a no lynch.

Spoiler: To his reads list in this game:

Reads list here, if anyone wants me to explain any of them then feel free to ask:

Town

Mathdino

Town lean

JaydragonKing
Aneninen
TheGoldenParadox

Null

Almost50
Pinturicchio
jmo16mla

Scum lean

Luca Blight
northsidegal
Creature

Scum

Gamma Emerald


VOTE: Creature
I was going to vote Gamma here but then Math posted 397. Slightly cautious that Math is scum trying to guide us but I don't believe that based on my town read and I'm sure if those pings are true then there'd be something to it later in the game.

Also note the first one is earlier in the game than the one he posted this game - too early for such a reads list really, but just look at the curiosity and enthusiasm in that post as well as his comfortable tone.

Sorry, not a helpful case D:

[Creature]

I guess you made me townread mutant more though lol.

[Creature]

so why are A50 and creature both wrong about aneninen?

tbh Aneninen is someone I consider hard-to-read because I could be underestimating him too much.

[Creature]

Spoiler: Compare this from Mutant's Town game:

Hey, so here are my reads that nobody asked for:

Yuria - Slightly scummy in my opinion. They only have 2 posts and they avoided a question with another question. Whilst this stuff isn't really a scum tell overall they don't seem that useful to the town so I would be up for lynching them since we don't know much day 1.
Ectomancer - Whilst I'm split on the tell of their tactic to force wagons on us, they seem fairly reasonable and like someone who is willing to at least contribute a lot. So at the moment, I think they are worth keeping around.
IceGuy - I don't really get many vibes from him of either alignment. I don't really see why there are votes against him.
DeasVail - He seems very friendly. To the point where I would derp clear him as town. Though this is mafia, so a nice guy approach might just be a facade.
Transcend - His posts consist of a whole lot of nothing and some of them are somewhat misleading. The only credit I could give them right now is that they are active. But the slight scumminess in the lack of sense that they are writing means I would be comfortable lynching them at this stage.
Fishythefish - I trust the fishy for now. I would like to see him post a little more though as I feel like he has more to offer than what we've seen so far.
Elmo TeH AzN - Her posts are short and brief which isn't too useful. I don't think there is anything scummy about her, but due to her lack of meaningful contribution, I would be willing to lynch them day 1.
Luca Blight - Another player that seems reasonable in what they are saying. I feel like he has a way of seeing wider logic which I think is useful late game.
kelbris - I like his logic and how he offers his opinion into the discussion. He is a seemingly useful player that I would not be comfortable lynching day 1.
sheepsaysmeep - He seems rather unnoticeable to me. Before isolating his posts I only thought he had 1. Other than that they seem okay though.
havingfitz - I don't like how he passively suggested Transcend revealed being the IC so early in the game. Pretty scummy if you ask me. Whether or not they are indeed mafia I think this kind of bad thinking wouldn't be helpful to town in the long run so I'd be willing to lynch them day 1. Despite this, they do seem like they would be helpful.
Lil Uzi Vert - He has not been helpful in anyway whatsoever. Hist posts are literally just an introduction, votes, and a single emoji. Based on how I vote on day 1 lynches, which if you haven't noticed is more based on usefulness than it is scum tells, he is the person I would be most prepared to lynch.

mutantdevle - He seems like an utter noob which can get annoying. Not sure what to make of this guy.

davesaz - They haven't spoken in a long time. I'd like to see them speak more.




Btw my attitude towards day 1 lynches is, since we don't know much, I prefer to lynch based on how useful I think the players will be. The only time I really move away from this is if either someone makes a proper slip and we can actually be fairly confident that they are actually scum or the pressures of time means that I'd have to vote for somone I am not really okay with lynching but still think it is worth losing them in order to not end the day in a no lynch.

Spoiler: To his reads list in this game:

Reads list here, if anyone wants me to explain any of them then feel free to ask:

Town

Mathdino

Town lean

JaydragonKing
Aneninen
TheGoldenParadox

Null

Almost50
Pinturicchio
jmo16mla

Scum lean

Luca Blight
northsidegal
Creature

Scum

Gamma Emerald


VOTE: Creature
I was going to vote Gamma here but then Math posted 397. Slightly cautious that Math is scum trying to guide us but I don't believe that based on my town read and I'm sure if those pings are true then there'd be something to it later in the game.

Also note the first one is earlier in the game than the one he posted this game - too early for such a reads list really, but just look at the curiosity and enthusiasm in that post as well as his comfortable tone.

Yeah, I don't do that anymore.

Comparing my play to the one I played with you is probably the least accurate representation of me. That was the first game I had ever played where everyone present was there to take the game seriously and I just so happened to get a PR (admittedly I was a bad innocent child getting town read so much). On my previous forum you were expected to have strong reads by page 3 or you'd get called scum so that's why that was so early. I probably was more enthusiastic for that game since I could put a lot more time into it then. I'm bogged down by college work now as I have been for my last few games.

Do you think it's scummy for someone to go on the first games you've ever played to push a bad meta case on you?

[Creature]

@pintu: My push on NSG was worthless. It was very explicitly a reaction test. If NSG is town, scum would just know that she's town and would probably come out as town under pressure. Not a wagon they want to be found on. Aneninen is not so easily sortable by pressure.

And yeah, I do think scum jumped on the Gamma wagon at some point. And yeah, I do know I'm one of those votes.

Are you scumreading me, or pointing out that I should be scumreading myself here?

I was pointing out that, by your logic, it would be more reasonable to go for someone who jumped on a wagon than someone whose wagon didn't get momentum because "scum didn't want to vote him". Aneni's case (as pointed out by Aneni himself) has no explanation at all, why would town jump there? Gamma's case, on the other hand, had some good arguments so it would be easier to jump there for scum. I'm not saying you are one of those scums; I'm actually thinking mutant could be scum on that jump and he had to build his case against him AFTER jumping and not BEFORE jumping. BUT, on my point of view, I can't get much information from that, as I am still scumleaning Gamma (not scumreading any more, tho).
So, my point is: could it be a better wagon than Aneni's wagon right now? What is it about Creature and A50 that you trust them so much? If you think scum jumped on the Gamma wagon, shouldn't a mutant wagon have more sense at this point?

Ugh the genericness.

I really need to review Pinturicchio.

[Creature]

I'd like an updated readslist from Mutant soon.

As per all my reads lists, if you want any 1 read explained then you just have to ask.

Town:

MathDino

-0

Town Lean:

TheGoldenParadox

-0

Pinturicchio

^1

Creature

^2

Null:

jmo16mla

-0

Luca Blight

^1

northsidegal

^1

Scum Lean:

JaydragonKing

v2

Aneninen

v2

Scum:

Gamma Emerald

-0

I'd actually just like to explain my Jay read in particular. Right now they feel really forgettable. I had to ISO Jay just to see what they had even been saying over the last few pages and, honestly, 582 I feel is the last time they made a decent post. Since then it's been pure fluff and minor input. I know Jay to be quite fluffy which is why I paid no attention to it previously but now that I've realised there is barely any contribution in between the fluff which feels like Jay is really disengaged and has nothing to contribute.

What do you think about Anen's "rage post"?

[Mathdino]

tbh Aneninen is someone I consider hard-to-read because I could be underestimating him too much.

i largely agree with this

but there's also the matter of PoE at a certain point

he's a good scum player but if everyone else is town...

anyway do you not feel the same way about gamma?

[Creature]

towngames are more a playground to me

Hence why being town is funny while being scum isn't.

[Creature]

anyway do you not feel the same way about gamma?

I guess I'm townreading Gamma most because of his activity rn.