Open 714: Tit for Tat [Game Over]

[Luca Blight]

How is it a misrep? Have I cut any of the context out of your quote?

Don't blatantly say something like that and then get annoyed when it's later used against you.

[Mathdino]

The problem with your strategy is that you are getting claims just for the sake of it, not because a "universal scumread", because the wagons were shit. If you really dislike vig killing his scumreads, then ask the vig to not kill anyone at all on D1

we're in evens

if vig doesn't kill we're objectively at a disadvantage

[JaydragonKing]

Says the guy who's been getting pissed that Dino quotes him all the time.

Context and inside joke. And this was already discussed earlier. You can find it via my ISO that mutant said I was gamethrowing. Clearly you've ignored Everything I've said before like page 45.

[pinturicchio]

The problem with your strategy is that you are getting claims just for the sake of it, not because a "universal scumread", because the wagons were shit. If you really dislike vig killing his scumreads, then ask the vig to not kill anyone at all on D1

we're in evens

if vig doesn't kill we're objectively at a disadvantage

"Explain the Newbie" time

[Luca Blight]

Ironically, I just played a game where the vig ignored who everyone was telling him to shoot and went for his own choice, and hit scum.

Even more ironic - scum neither killed nor roleblocked him when they had the chance - believing he'd go for the designated vig kill.

[Mathdino]

The problem with your strategy is that you are getting claims just for the sake of it, not because a "universal scumread", because the wagons were shit. If you really dislike vig killing his scumreads, then ask the vig to not kill anyone at all on D1

we're in evens

if vig doesn't kill we're objectively at a disadvantage

"Explain the Newbie" time

suppose vig just never kills and we end up at 8p
3 mafia, 5 town
random lynch gives us a 3/8 chance of hitting scum
on the other hand, no-lynch means scum kill a townie, giving us a 3/7 chance of hitting scum, which is slightly greater

when in evens without some method of stopping kills or generating kills, no-lynching is generally the mathematically correct/standard call when there's an even number of players
obviously in this setup we have both the means to stop kills AND generate kills, and both jailkeeper and vig should be working to bring us to odds by doing so

plus if you think about what a vig is
a properly used vig doubles the power of the town by giving us another "lynch"
of course it can also completely fuck over the town because for whatever reason vigs on MS keep fucking shooting power roles
that is why i'm treating it as essentially a second lynch, with claims and everything

[pinturicchio]

But I didn't say vig never killing, I said not killing on D1. Just by speaking your math language, 2 mislynches are more probable on D1 than on D2, including all the info you get with the first lynch and the NK from scum. Vig kills would be better aimed starting at D2

[Mathdino]

some interesting facts:

NSG's postrate is almost exactly between her average town postrate and scum postrate

the number of questions she's asked per post far FAR exceeds both her town questionrate and scumquestionrate, although her scum questionrate is generally a little higher

basically NSG is playing severely against meta by spending almost every post asking questions rather than making statements

it's not scum indicative but i've realised that's why i can't get a lock on her

[Luca Blight]

Says the guy who's been getting pissed that Dino quotes him all the time.

Context and inside joke. And this was already discussed earlier. You can find it via my ISO that mutant said I was gamethrowing. Clearly you've ignored Everything I've said before like page 45.

Misquotes me, yes.

Anyway, I certainly didn't deliberately misrep you - you said it in black and white, and I have reason to believe you meant it.

I was just using you as an example, anyway - I'm not actually calling for the vig to shoot you, you were just the most convenient example to use.

[Mathdino]

But I didn't say vig never killing, I said not killing on D1. Just by speaking your math language, 2 mislynches are more probable on D1 than on D2, including all the info you get with the first lynch and the NK from scum. Vig kills would be better aimed starting at D2

not how it works though

by that logic, lynching on D1 at all is a bad idea because you're more likely to hit scum later on

if town has 2 abilities to remove scum from the game while scum has only 1

town should take as many safe options as they can get

[pinturicchio]

But I didn't say vig never killing, I said not killing on D1. Just by speaking your math language, 2 mislynches are more probable on D1 than on D2, including all the info you get with the first lynch and the NK from scum. Vig kills would be better aimed starting at D2

Also, from vig perspective, shooting randomly would have a higher chance to hit scum than a PR. There are two rolecops (one of each team) a Jailkeeper and a Goon, so if there's a mislynch today, it would be a 3/11 chance of shooting scum and 2/11 chance of shooting a PR, and I'm talking about a random shoot. If you include the info you get from D1 and the lynch itself, chances would be higher. But I get your point, it's fair, and I agree with it

[pinturicchio]

But I didn't say vig never killing, I said not killing on D1. Just by speaking your math language, 2 mislynches are more probable on D1 than on D2, including all the info you get with the first lynch and the NK from scum. Vig kills would be better aimed starting at D2

not how it works though

by that logic, lynching on D1 at all is a bad idea because you're more likely to hit scum later on

if town has 2 abilities to remove scum from the game while scum has only 1

town should take as many safe options as they can get

Not the same, as here you would get a flip that gives you more info for the next day

[JaydragonKing]

Well the internet is a place where certain sayings get fucked up without vocal inflection.

And yeah, I also agree that the Vigilante has to keep making kills. Not the idea to not let the Vigilante fricken have a say in who they shoot, but we've clearly are still debating that.

[pinturicchio]

But I didn't say vig never killing, I said not killing on D1. Just by speaking your math language, 2 mislynches are more probable on D1 than on D2, including all the info you get with the first lynch and the NK from scum. Vig kills would be better aimed starting at D2

Also, from vig perspective, shooting randomly would have a higher chance to hit scum than a PR. There are two rolecops (one of each team) a Jailkeeper and a Goon, so if there's a mislynch today, it would be a 3/11 chance of shooting scum and 2/11 chance of shooting a PR, and I'm talking about a random shoot. If you include the info you get from D1 and the lynch itself, chances would be higher. But I get your point, it's fair, and I agree with it

Forgot to mention the backup Jailkeeper

[RedFlavor]

VC 1.10

jmo16mla(1):

Creature 1009

Aneninen(6):

Mathdino 1235, Luca Blight 1242, Almost50 1250, Gamma Emerald 1304, pinturricchio 1328, JaydragonKing 1352

L-1

Mathdino(2):

Aneninen 1270, TheGoldenParadox 1324

JaydragonKing(1):

jmo16mla 1068

pinturicchio(2):

northsidegal 1101, mutantdevle 1110

Not Voting:

no one

With 12 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Day one ends Tuesday, March 13th at 1.20pm UTC or in (expired on 2018-03-13 16:20:00)

Mod Notes: northsidegal has been prodded.

[pinturicchio]

Let's get spicy:

VOTE: jmo16mla

You know what? We should get spicy

[Luca Blight]

I'm currently thinking:

vig Anen, leave Pin alive, lynch either Mutant or jmo.

[Luca Blight]

UNVOTE:

I want to think about this.

[Aneninen]

Just a couple of things.

Where did I actually have a case against you?

From 276. Discrediting you and quoting things out of context. It's strange that you don't remember.

1. Well, I've pushed for a Math lynch for most of the day but most think he's Town, so I'm leaving that thought for another day. Other than that you and Mutant are probably the next best options, at the moment.

2. I'm not saying cases are always bad, but you don't

need

to have a case to justify lynching someone, imo - for example, if you wanted to lynch Jay you couldn't ever make much of a case, other than that he posts fluff and irrelevant stuff, which he does as either alignment.

3. No, I never said it's scummy you are annoyed by a PoE scumread - I was talking theoretically.

1. Where's that "most"? What if there were a small amount of players (including Mathdino) who narrowed the lynch pool to very few names without real reasoning?
2. There's a

huge

difference between situations where a 1–2 players are sheeping others who have a case against someone and situations where most players have no cases and players are sheeping them. Here, the latter is happening.
3. Okay, let's see it

theoretically

, from

your point of view

. You think I'm scum. Please, explain the

differences

you would experience from town-Aneninen getting wagoned without a cases on Day1! Also, explain the

differences

you'd see from

any

player in this situation.

pintu already claimed and he's never getting nightkilled; call it a policy vig but it's kind of a policy vig at this point

Policy Vig. Yeah. Are you suggesting the Vig not scumhunting?

also shooting null VTs is great vigplay idk what you're talking about

Which would be worth more, I guess. (Even if still not scumhunting.)
Shouldn't we see the flip and let the Vig pick someone

afterwards

?

and i'm townreading jmo

No surprise. He'll be a great mislynch later for you, won't he?

Aneninen promised a readlist "tommorow", aka day 2. I am positive he's scum at this point trying a last second stall.

Are you misrepresenting me intentionally?
I pointed out

tomorrow, not Tomorrow

. I'm obviously scummy because of saying that when it's way past midnight IRL here. (And that tomorrow is today now. Also Today. If you care.)

the wallposters are in fact anen/mutant/gamma

Luca, Mathdino...

I don't see what makes Anen's frustration Townie.

See above. Same post.

[Aneninen]

Jay, Anen is trying to counter wagon Math, not Mutant.

It's also obviously my fault that most players ignored my thoughts about Mathdino.
Also, I've expressed that I'd join the Mutant-wagon anytime.
Luca, you're not scumreading me. You

want

to scumread me. The question is: why.

the point is this: even if pintu is town, he is going to get mislynched at some point if we leave him alive
this is basically true of anyone that gets run up to L-1 and claims VT

Alternatively, there's another explanation.
Pintu is VT for real and the scum want the Vig remove him. Then the scum can perform a more valuable Nightkill and they're safe from the Vig-shot too.

paradox i guess is policyviggable

Policy Vig-able because he's voting for you or because he's not buying the pigeon poop going on for days?

For your information: later on the same page Mathdino's trying to manipulate the Vig in a way which favours him. I don't think that would make sense from town-him. At this point I seriously consider self-hammering, because at least that would not be two birds with one stone for the scum.

[TheGoldenParadox]

I'm currently thinking:

vig Anen, leave Pin alive, lynch either Mutant or jmo.

What if we lynch dino, then if he's town, vig anen, if he's scum, vig mutant or jmo.

[Luca Blight]

I'm really feeling one of Math/Anen are scum - if Anen flipped green I'd like Math vigged.

[Mathdino]

While it would be fantastic to formalise vig conditionals, we don't have an easy method of voting for them
Hence the original vig idea

[Mathdino]

Also there is no way I'm confident enough in Anen being scum to agree to death after his, or vice versa
Sell me on Anen being scum from my pov

[Luca Blight]

Jay, Anen is trying to counter wagon Math, not Mutant.

It's also obviously my fault that most players ignored my thoughts about Mathdino.
Also, I've expressed that I'd join the Mutant-wagon anytime.
Luca, you're not scumreading me. You

want

to scumread me. The question is: why.

Err, I wan't making a point in the post you quoted; I was just pointing out something factual.

The more you post the more I scumread you, to be honest.