Open 714: Tit for Tat [Game Over]

[Gamma Emerald]

btw A50 had you claimed VT, explained your plan, and pointed out your crumb without self-hammering, I would have unvoted on the spot. My whole suspicion of you was based on the fact your play felt like a PR hiding which felt manufactured so you making that post was literally the best thing to get me to townread you.

[Mathdino]

I also blame A50 but his reads were fucking right and he got wagoned for it so I'm having trouble sympathising with the rest of yall here

[Gamma Emerald]

I blame myself for not thinking he could be VT baiting scum into thinking he could be PR

[RedFlavor]

VC 1.11

jmo16mla(1):

Creature 1009

Mathdino(1):

Aneninen 1270

JaydragonKing(1):

jmo16mla 1068

pinturicchio(1):

northsidegal 1101

northsidegal(1):

Mathdino 1455

Almost50(7):

pinturicchio 1473, JaydragonKing 1474, Luca Blight 1475, mutantdevle 1481, TheGoldenParadox 1485, Gamma Emerald 1513, Almost50 1517

Hammer!

Not Voting:

no one

With 12 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

A majority has been reached.
Almost50 will be lynched!

[RedFlavor]

Y'all thought I was writing flavor, but I was actually eating dinner.

Almost50 was lynched! Their role was:

Spoiler:

Vanilla Townie

Night 1 has started! It will end after (expired on 2018-03-12 21:00:00). Please do not forget to submit your actions!

[RedFlavor]

Good morning everyone! Did you sleep well?

Creature did not because he died at night. His role was:

Spoiler:

Vanilla Townie

pinturrichio also did not sleep well because of dying. His role was:

Spoiler:

Mafia Backup Jailkeeper

Day 2 has started! It will end after (expired on 2018-03-26 21:00:00)

[RedFlavor]

VC 2.00

Not Voting:

everyone

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.

Day two ends Monday, March 26th at 6 PM UTC or in (expired on 2018-03-26 21:00:00)

Mod Notes: Have fun!

[JaydragonKing]

... atleast it worked out well?

[Gamma Emerald]

Well shoot. Guess I'm gonna swallow my pride here.
I'll probably be loaning my vote to Luca/Mathdino today

[Mathdino]

DID I NOT FUCKING TELL YOU GUYS COME ON

[JaydragonKing]

I feel like a discussion is in order of how in the hell we ended up not hanging Anen but still shooting the Backup Jailkeeper anyway.

Still also sad my reads were so off because I had thought Pintu really was a townie. No wonder Almost and Co accused me at the end.

[Mathdino]

i even fucking preempted pintu's claim by saying "all mafia is going to claim jailkeeper" SPECIFICALLY SO WE WOULDNT OUT THE REAL JAILKEEPER

those of you on the A50 wagon can never question my ability to read A50 ever again thanks

[Mathdino]

regrettably i know my role now so that's whatever
this mafia is clearly shit at finding power roles if they shot creature of all people

jailkeeper will continue to protect me until 1 mafia left

scum is in {NSG, Jay, Luca, Anen} in descending order

[JaydragonKing]

Probably shot Creature since you were towning him up so much and said "his reads are amazing", and they didn't want his opinion of late day one.

[Gamma Emerald]

i even fucking preempted pintu's claim by saying "all mafia is going to claim jailkeeper" SPECIFICALLY SO WE WOULDNT OUT THE REAL JAILKEEPER

those of you on the A50 wagon can never question my ability to read A50 ever again thanks

I mean I'll still question it in other games but for now I'm bowing to you here

[Luca Blight]

I guess this is the most relevant vc to analyse.

Note here that all six votes came within half a page of each other (page 45). I guess the most likely bus would either be NSG, not expecting the wagon to pick up such pace, or Jay looking to put it to L-1 before someone else could.

jmo16mla

(2): Creature 1009, Gamma Emerald 1010

Aneninen

(1): pinturricchio 1090

mutantdevle

(1): Aneninen 689

Mathdino

(1): TheGoldenParadox 743

JaydragonKing

(1): jmo16mla 1068

pinturicchio

(6): northsidegal 1101, mutantdevle 1110, Luca Blight 1111, Mathdino 1112, Almost50, Jay

Not Voting: no one

[Mathdino]

@Jay: don't turn this around on me

creature was obvtown to everyone

town creature almost universally gets shot N1 and he also created the pintu wagon

Edit:
@Gamma: fair
how about just a standard "if you trust my alignment, trust my reads"
i fully accept being scum as a reason for being wrong

[Luca Blight]

Creature didn't vote Pin at all this game.

[Mathdino]

let's be honest here guys scum is no matter what in the set of people that heavily suggested not shooting pintu

plus by lynching in that set, we don't run the risk of running up the vig

[Mathdino]

my bad, these were the creature posts i was basically sheeping in lynching pintu

pinturicchio feels fake.

Why?

He looks like one of these newbscum that quote a bunch of posts and just answers them.

@pintu: My push on NSG was worthless. It was very explicitly a reaction test. If NSG is town, scum would just know that she's town and would probably come out as town under pressure. Not a wagon they want to be found on. Aneninen is not so easily sortable by pressure.

And yeah, I do think scum jumped on the Gamma wagon at some point. And yeah, I do know I'm one of those votes.

Are you scumreading me, or pointing out that I should be scumreading myself here?

I was pointing out that, by your logic, it would be more reasonable to go for someone who jumped on a wagon than someone whose wagon didn't get momentum because "scum didn't want to vote him". Aneni's case (as pointed out by Aneni himself) has no explanation at all, why would town jump there? Gamma's case, on the other hand, had some good arguments so it would be easier to jump there for scum. I'm not saying you are one of those scums; I'm actually thinking mutant could be scum on that jump and he had to build his case against him AFTER jumping and not BEFORE jumping. BUT, on my point of view, I can't get much information from that, as I am still scumleaning Gamma (not scumreading any more, tho).
So, my point is: could it be a better wagon than Aneni's wagon right now? What is it about Creature and A50 that you trust them so much? If you think scum jumped on the Gamma wagon, shouldn't a mutant wagon have more sense at this point?

Ugh the genericness.

I really need to review Pinturicchio.

Checking VC 1.06 and VC 1.07, Pinturicchio is the only I don't townread that was on Gamma.

I prefer pintu lynch over Anen.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Jay: don't turn this around on me

creature was obvtown to everyone

town creature almost universally gets shot N1 and he also created the pintu wagon

Edit:
@Gamma: fair
how about just a standard "if you trust my alignment, trust my reads"
i fully accept being scum as a reason for being wrong

Sure, but don't expect me to just throw away a strong read because you say it's wrong

[Mathdino]

Anyone up for a last minute pintu wagon?

i still scumread the way anen talked about the whole math/luca interaction but i compared his iso this game to his iso in his last scumgame and i think they feel pretty different.

fair enough

i feel like i'm also pretty open about when i'm not totally sure about my reads

it's just certain players (like Almost50) that i feel i can strongly read

i fully admit that pintu-scum was not my own read and was essentially copied

anyway i'm compiling quotes from around the time the pintu wagon started, and NSG doesn't feel like a bus there so
VOTE: Jay

[Luca Blight]

I think it's fair to say most of us didn't expect him to flip red after his reaction - I guess I probably underestimated him a bit due to his join date.

Jay was the one to initally propose not shooting Pin, and kept briniging it up, although obviously I was inclined to agree as I was townreading him at the end.

Pin's comment that he didn't want to vote Anen if it meant risking Jay stood out to me, though. I'm thinking Anen/Jay/NSG is where to look today.

[Mathdino]

Anyone up for a last minute pintu wagon?

i still scumread the way anen talked about the whole math/luca interaction but i compared his iso this game to his iso in his last scumgame and i think they feel pretty different.

The things you quoted are basically just theory/playstyle explanation which he wouldn't have to fake as scum anyway.

If we're following Math's plan then Anen should claim, and then we can wagon someone else after.

Okay I'm happy with my vote.

what suddenly made you happy with your vote there?

My vote was going to put Anen at L-2 which I was fine with but then I saw Pintu's vote and saw my vote would put him to L-1 which I was hesitant to do because of a potential hammer - but I decided to vote anyway since any premature hammers would basically be a scum claim. I then looked into Pintu's reason for voting and it just wasn't adding up to me. It felt scummy and I don't think Pintu has ever mentioned a desire to vote Anen and I don't think he's ever scum read him (I might be wrong on that though). At first, it felt like a reason to justify not voting for Anen which made me think Pintu was scum and hence I was further uncomfortable with my vote because scum on a wagon usually means a mislynch. But the more I thought about it the more it felt like a last minute attempt to get on the wagon to bus a declared doomed scum buddy.

I'm not really up for a Pintu wagon since my main basis for now suddenly being suspicious of him is that he's potential buddies with Anen. If Anen were to flip town, I could still consider this vote be due to Pintu's inexperience - An inexperience I can relate to because I remember wanting to be on every lynch that goes through regardless of my read as I thought it was the townie thing to do which I only started dropping on my first game on this site.

I already stated I'm voting Aneninen because I'm following Dino and I've declared myself unable to read Aneninen. I also liked the wagon's composition until you got in here, and thought exactly the same thing you are saying about me: bussing on a declared doomed scum buddy", are you projecting yourself on me for some towncred if Aneninen flips scum?

My vote was going to put Anen at L-2 which I was fine with but then I saw Pintu's vote and saw my vote would put him to L-1 which I was hesitant to do because of a potential hammer - but I decided to vote anyway since any premature hammers would basically be a scum claim. I then looked into Pintu's reason for voting and it just wasn't adding up to me. It felt scummy and I don't think Pintu has ever mentioned a desire to vote Anen and I don't think he's ever scum read him (I might be wrong on that though). At first, it felt like a reason to justify not voting for Anen which made me think Pintu was scum and hence I was further uncomfortable with my vote because scum on a wagon usually means a mislynch. But the more I thought about it the more it felt like a last minute attempt to get on the wagon to bus a declared doomed scum buddy.

I'm not really up for a Pintu wagon since my main basis for now suddenly being suspicious of him is that he's potential buddies with Anen. If Anen were to flip town, I could still consider this vote be due to Pintu's inexperience - An inexperience I can relate to because I remember wanting to be on every lynch that goes through regardless of my read as I thought it was the townie thing to do which I only started dropping on my first game on this site.

let me get this straight – you think pintu's vote was bad and it made you hesitate on keeping your vote there, but then you figured that it was a bus, so you felt good about it still flipping scum. your second paragraph doesn't follow with this. if pintu's vote was scummy initially but not scummy because you figure it's a bus, 1) that still makes pintu scum and 2) why do you just write it off as inexperience at the end instead of in the first place?

like, a scummy vote still makes someone scum even if you think it's scum budding their buddy.

At first I thought you were misinterpreting what I was saying but then I realised you're right and I'm flat out wrong... this is why you don't scum hunt at 3 PM in the morning buzzing with caffeine whilst pulling an all-nighter to catch up on college work.

VOTE: pinturicchio

If pintu is scum then Anen probably is also, but if pintu flips town then Anen could still be scum anyway - not the other way round.

Intent to hammer.

@dino, fine. But tomorrow, no guarantees. I believe that you+A50+pintu is a very probable scumteam here based on rereading and interactions.

I'm not okay with vigging pintu and I will hella oppose that action

getting cold feet on NSG-scum but i'm waiting for her return

it looks like it was gamma that hard-pushed against the pintu vig

i'm townreading gamma though so i'm going to keep compiling quotes

[TheGoldenParadox]

... welp.
I doubt dino is scum after this.