Open 714: Tit for Tat [Game Over]


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Post Post #1600 (ISO) » Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:49 am

Post by Mathdino »

In post 1598, Gamma Emerald wrote:This is a bit of reverse engineered logic so bear with me. When I designed my Large Normal to start I had two ideas I sorta rolled into one: the Willbooster idea and the Vig 18p idea. The Vig 18p idea was actually based on this exact setup, but with a few more roles to sorta sweeten the pot I guess. The reason why I picked 18 players as the number was because with vig there should generally be 3 deaths a cycle, thus bringing it eventually to 3p lylo potentially. I took that idea from this setup because I saw the same process in play here just with less overall numbers. My point is vig should not be holstering because I feel the setup is based around them shooting each and every night.
I think this is fair, but also keep in mind most setups are based around not lynching scum on D1 (and let's be honest, pintu was basically lynched, not vigged).

Clearly if we get a counterclaim situation, vig is our backup plan to shoot scum if we get the coinflip wrong.

I'm toying with this idea: We should be lynching today in the set of people who didn't want the vig to shoot pintu, as those people had shittons of scum motivation and are pretty clearly not the vig.

Why not use the vig to shoot people who WERE okay with vig shooting pintu, and acknowledge that since the vig isn't gonna just shoot themselves, there's less danger of hitting a power role?

That would mean shooting in {NSG, mutant}, with the acknowledgement that if one of them actually is the vig, they should obviously just act like they're VT potentially getting shot.

Edit: @mutant: I want to lynch Jay and vig someone else. We should do our best to hit scum today I think, because that gives jailkeeper the opportunity to play offence (scumhunting) rather than defence (nightkillhunting).
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Post Post #1601 (ISO) » Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:52 am

Post by JaydragonKing »

That is very huge tunnel vision, Dino.
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Post Post #1602 (ISO) » Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:53 am

Post by Mathdino »

You know, the best thing you could be doing for town right now is letting go of your "let Dino control my vote when he's right" (which you completely ignored yesterday when I was screaming A50 was town) and actually scumhunting, so we have material if you flip town.
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Post Post #1603 (ISO) » Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:54 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

In post 1600, Mathdino wrote:
In post 1598, Gamma Emerald wrote:This is a bit of reverse engineered logic so bear with me. When I designed my Large Normal to start I had two ideas I sorta rolled into one: the Willbooster idea and the Vig 18p idea. The Vig 18p idea was actually based on this exact setup, but with a few more roles to sorta sweeten the pot I guess. The reason why I picked 18 players as the number was because with vig there should generally be 3 deaths a cycle, thus bringing it eventually to 3p lylo potentially. I took that idea from this setup because I saw the same process in play here just with less overall numbers. My point is vig should not be holstering because I feel the setup is based around them shooting each and every night.
I think this is fair, but also keep in mind most setups are based around not lynching scum on D1 (and let's be honest, pintu was basically lynched, not vigged).

Clearly if we get a counterclaim situation, vig is our backup plan to shoot scum if we get the coinflip wrong.

I'm toying with this idea: We should be lynching today in the set of people who didn't want the vig to shoot pintu, as those people had shittons of scum motivation and are pretty clearly not the vig.

Why not use the vig to shoot people who WERE okay with vig shooting pintu, and acknowledge that since the vig isn't gonna just shoot themselves, there's less danger of hitting a power role?

That would mean shooting in {NSG, mutant}, with the acknowledgement that if one of them actually is the vig, they should obviously just act like they're VT potentially getting shot.

Edit: @mutant: I want to lynch Jay and vig someone else. We should do our best to hit scum today I think, because that gives jailkeeper the opportunity to play offence (scumhunting) rather than defence (nightkillhunting).
This sounds like some solid logic actually.
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Post Post #1604 (ISO) » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:01 am

Post by JaydragonKing »

In post 1602, Mathdino wrote:You know, the best thing you could be doing for town right now is letting go of your "let Dino control my vote when he's right" (which you completely ignored yesterday when I was screaming A50 was town) and actually scumhunting, so we have material if you flip town.
I did that because I thought Almost was scum for being so radically different then I've ever seen him before, for that part. For the next part, I still have to reorganize my entire thought process after being wrong twice (once with Pintu, and the other with Almost).

I need to hear from more people now, first.
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Post Post #1605 (ISO) » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:14 am

Post by northsidegal »

That's a massive (probably unhealthy) ego boost, right there
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Post Post #1606 (ISO) » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:16 am

Post by Mathdino »

Dude it's been 5 days, your vote is still a possible bus, and you provided basically 0 reads over the course of yesterday.

Convince us you shouldn't just get policyvigged here.
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Post Post #1607 (ISO) » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:17 am

Post by northsidegal »

Lol
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Post Post #1608 (ISO) » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:17 am

Post by Mathdino »

In post 1096, northsidegal wrote:Anyone up for a last minute pintu wagon?
Were you aware as of writing this post that this wording would ping me? I feel like you should know what I'm talking about.
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Post Post #1609 (ISO) » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:17 am

Post by northsidegal »

Excited to respond when I get to a computer
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Post Post #1610 (ISO) » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:17 am

Post by northsidegal »

In post 1608, Mathdino wrote:
In post 1096, northsidegal wrote:Anyone up for a last minute pintu wagon?
Were you aware as of writing this post that this wording would ping me? I feel like you should know what I'm talking about.
I have literally no clue what you're referring to
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Post Post #1611 (ISO) » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:22 am

Post by northsidegal »

In post 1606, Mathdino wrote:Dude it's been 5 days, your vote is still a possible bus,
and you provided basically 0 reads over the course of yesterday.


Convince us you shouldn't just get policyvigged here.
This is patently untrue, by the way. I also think pintu's reaction to me spews me as town but that's just from memory, i'll look closer at that
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Post Post #1612 (ISO) » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:25 am

Post by JaydragonKing »

In post 1611, northsidegal wrote:
In post 1606, Mathdino wrote:Dude it's been 5 days, your vote is still a possible bus,
and you provided basically 0 reads over the course of yesterday.


Convince us you shouldn't just get policyvigged here.
This is patently untrue, by the way. I also think pintu's reaction to me spews me as town but that's just from memory, i'll look closer at that
... Wait, I thought that was directed at me?
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Post Post #1613 (ISO) » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:26 am

Post by northsidegal »

In post 1612, JaydragonKing wrote:
In post 1611, northsidegal wrote:
In post 1606, Mathdino wrote:Dude it's been 5 days, your vote is still a possible bus,
and you provided basically 0 reads over the course of yesterday.


Convince us you shouldn't just get policyvigged here.
This is patently untrue, by the way. I also think pintu's reaction to me spews me as town but that's just from memory, i'll look closer at that
... Wait, I thought that was directed at me?
From what i read people were saying the same things about me, so -shrug-
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Post Post #1614 (ISO) » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:29 am

Post by Aneninen »

I'm an idiot.

Not only because I thought Almost50 was scum and Pinturicchio was town.
But also because I stopped reading the game about a day before the lynch. I obviously thought I'd be lynched by the time I was back from work (or did it take place at night for me?) and after the lynch I thought I'd be Vig-killed.

I'll start to check Today's posts. Right now, I'm skipping the last part of Day1 (I don't have much time), but someone could give me a short summary about those events. Also, ask questions and I'll try to answer.
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Post Post #1615 (ISO) » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:30 am

Post by Mathdino »

hey aneninen who's the scum on the a50 wagon
was there scum at all on the pintu wagon
who's the scum on your wagon

do you now have an ounce of faith in my reads and my "manipulation"

o yeah and who we lynchin'
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Post Post #1616 (ISO) » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:31 am

Post by Mathdino »

guys keep in mind that scum don't actually know who the vig is

please stop saying things that could spew whether or not you're the vig
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Post Post #1617 (ISO) » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:33 am

Post by northsidegal »

Wonder if that creature kill is reason to townread luca.
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Post Post #1618 (ISO) » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:33 am

Post by JaydragonKing »

Reading it yourself is probably the best bet, as any summary we do will be tainted with bias. But I'll try.

Basically Pintu and I started a wagon on Almost. Dino, Gamma, Luca, and Paradox joined in. Almost hammered himself for his "master plan". And I'm still confused as all hell.
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Post Post #1619 (ISO) » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:35 am

Post by Mathdino »

In post 1618, JaydragonKing wrote:Dino, Gamma, Luca, and Paradox joined in.
YOOOO I WAS HARD DEFENDING A50
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Post Post #1620 (ISO) » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:40 am

Post by JaydragonKing »

Glad your still actually reading what I'm writing. Good catch. It was Mutant on the wagon with us and not you. Great job.
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Post Post #1621 (ISO) » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:44 am

Post by northsidegal »

have i ever told you that i love playing with you, elsa? because i do.
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Post Post #1622 (ISO) » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:46 am

Post by JaydragonKing »

It was implied, North. Love ya too.

Any possible way you can save me without me claiming, btw?
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Post Post #1623 (ISO) » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:48 am

Post by Mathdino »

jay you're not even voting anyone wtf

you should be the one giving us a better option
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Post Post #1624 (ISO) » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:49 am

Post by Aneninen »

In post 1557, JaydragonKing wrote:... atleast it worked out well?
?
In post 1560, JaydragonKing wrote:I feel like a discussion is in order of how in the hell we ended up not hanging Anen but still shooting the Backup Jailkeeper anyway.
You can only be the second most surprised about that. See my previous post!
In post 1562, Mathdino wrote:this mafia is clearly shit at finding power roles if they shot creature of all people
Alternatively, they thought they had been in no danger and wanted to perform a non-informative Nightkill. (?)
In post 1562, Mathdino wrote:jailkeeper will continue to protect me until 1 mafia left
Why?
In post 1562, Mathdino wrote:scum is in {NSG, Jay, Luca, Anen} in descending order
Can you explain that? Also, why I'm not in the Top 3?
In post 1565, Luca Blight wrote:I guess this is the most relevant vc to analyse.

Note here that all six votes came within half a page of each other (page 45). I guess the most likely bus would either be NSG, not expecting the wagon to pick up such pace, or Jay looking to put it to L-1 before someone else could.

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(2): Creature 1009, Gamma Emerald 1010
Aneninen
(1): pinturricchio 1090
mutantdevle
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(1): TheGoldenParadox 743
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(1): jmo16mla 1068
pinturicchio
(6): northsidegal 1101, mutantdevle 1110, Luca Blight 1111, Mathdino 1112, Almost50, Jay

Not Voting: no one
Hm. Let me think. it's unlikely that both of them. Why did you rule out Mutant and Mathdino?
In post 1568, Mathdino wrote:let's be honest here guys scum is no matter what in the set of people that heavily suggested not shooting pintu
Are you talking about the Vig-shot alone?
Because there were a few players townreading him. Including me.
In post 1572, Luca Blight wrote:Jay was the one to initally propose not shooting Pin, and kept briniging it up, although obviously I was inclined to agree as I was townreading him at the end.

Pin's comment that he didn't want to vote Anen if it meant risking Jay stood out to me, though. I'm thinking Anen/Jay/NSG is where to look today.
Can you link those posts? I know I'm on your scumlist, but still.
In post 1580, Mathdino wrote:right so jay is clearly scum
paradox townread is nullified but he's not scum with aneninen
aneninen, luca, and NSG i guess can be townish for now
A kind of note-to self. I'll read that post later.
In post 1594, JaydragonKing wrote:Saying "I'm dying no matter what" is true, but do realize the reasoning for why I'm going to die, Dino. It's not because I'm scum or because the Vigilante is shooting me.
???
Where did it come from?

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