Open 714: Tit for Tat [Game Over]

[Mathdino]

Continuously calling me claimed scum when you have seen me do this EVERY GAME as EITHER ALIGNMENT is horrible and you know it Dino. Get off your ass and have your back up plan ready for when I flip Village Idiot.

Uh, vig Gamma and proceed as usual?

WHAT THE FUCK KIND OF PLAN IS SHOOT GAMMA?!?!

OHHHHHH

Dude I thought you were still pretending to be jailkeeper. Right, my bad.

If Jay flips VI VT, Gamma jails whoever the fuck he wants and we still vig jmo or mutant.

[mutantdevle]

Due to Pintu's death, I think it's obvious that the vig likes to listen to the rest of us, so I suppose that means I'm getting vigged tonight. So my reads list is going to be more detailed than normal. (Pedit: maybe not? I still think there's a chance I'm getting vigged and there's no point in me removing the detail from my reads list kek).

Town:

MathDino

-0

Math is obviously town. I've said that from the start.
TheGoldenParadox

^1

I also think TGP is town. He's done literally nothing scummy all game. I never agreed on his early pushes against Math, but his motivation seems town and that's good enough for me. Pedit: @math, do you consider yourself to have any bias against Gamma due to him accusing you so much day 1. Honestly, Gamma doesn't strike me as ballsy scum that would try to get you lynched day 1. Pedit2: nvm you backed down on that lol.

Town Lean:

northsidegal

^1

The lack of content here and Creature's read on her did make me cautious at the start of the day. But honestly, she has just seemed really townie today. Furthermore, is there really like anyone we could possibly say is scum with NSG? Jay definitely doesn't fit that criteria.
Gamma Emerald

^3

This may be very surprising considering my earlier push on Gamma but I honestly feel like bias probably did get in the way a bit there. I was easing off on Gamma at the end of yesterday because I really couldn't see who Gamma would be scum with except Math. And math is definitely not on the scum team. Since then, I've looked at Gamma with more of an open eye and his game solving game is strong.


Everything below here would be my lynch pool for tomorrow if I was to be alive for it so please don't forget my opinion here. Some of my reads had been bumped up town wise through PoE but these are definitely the scummiest 3 (or 4 if you still consider Jay to be alive):

Null:

jmo16mla

-0

Has done basically nothing since early day 1. As mentioned numerous times though, this could just be town struggling to keep up. But I have no reason to town read jmo so PoE puts him here.
Luca Blight

-0

I'm still not sure how much my bias against his tone makes me put him here, but nothing sticks out as town from Luca. I feel like he might be scum that's doing his best to blend in.

Scum Lean:

Aneninen

-0

This guy is scummy. I do believe his reaction to his wagon was fairly fake (with maybe some genuine frustration) but I have no idea what made him think he'd be vigged overnight. I feel like that's just an excuse for not catching up during the night. My bets are on him being Jay's partner.

Scum:

JaydragonKing

v1

I'm ready to vote for this scumlord anytime you need me to.


So that's my read list / lynch pool for if I'm dead by tomorrow. I started writing this when there was prominent support to vig me but that's obviously subsided a bit since then. I don't know if I'll still be alive tomorrow, but please don't just forget about my reads if I'm not. They're not always accurate, but they'd help with associations. We're just waiting for Luca and Anen to chip in before we lynch Jay right?

My opinion on the vig / JK:

HURT: Anen
HEAL: Luca

Since they are the 2 I am most confident on after Jay.

[jmo16mla]

jmo is the best jail, honestly. vig mutant.

I've got a better idea to not kill me (; buy honestly, if killing me would give you guys that many reads, I'm almost okay with it. But I don't think it's justifiable. I get progressively better as games go on. More on this later.

So. Jay is known for fake claiming as any faction.

We lynch him. He turns out VT, we all agree to vig someone. Before hand if this happens. We also have to find someone to jailkeep. We have to think though. We cannot vig and jail keep the same person. So we vig the most scummy person, then jailkrep the second most scummy person? That way we can clear someone that night.

The jail keeper must state who they are jail keeping also, if Jay is indeed scum, we will have one remaining scum. The JK must claim who they will protect. The JK comes up dead the next day, that person they protected are conf town.

[Mathdino]

No, guys, stop it lol. Jay doesn't fakeclaim in a 100% open setup. He only fakeclaims in semi-opens.

[JaydragonKing]

Yeah, thanks. Now let's actually build a case for after my death. Questions that need to be asked.

1: Luca's instantaneous following of Pintu voting up Almost along with me.
2: The liability of keeping Paradox around.
3: the "weird feelings" people have had about jmo.

We got more, but let's start here.

[jmo16mla]

I meant to say Jay is a liability for claiming like this as town in prior games. Fake claiming rairly helps town. In this case it can't help town. Or at least I can't see how.

Math: lol you're right.

[mutantdevle]

jmo is the best jail, honestly. vig mutant.

I've got a better idea to not kill me (; buy honestly, if killing me would give you guys that many reads, I'm almost okay with it. But I don't think it's justifiable. I get progressively better as games go on. More on this later.

So. Jay is known for fake claiming as any faction.

We lynch him. He turns out VT, we all agree to vig someone. Before hand if this happens. We also have to find someone to jailkeep. We have to think though. We cannot vig and jail keep the same person. So we vig the most scummy person, then jailkrep the second most scummy person? That way we can clear someone that night.

The jail keeper must state who they are jail keeping also, if Jay is indeed scum, we will have one remaining scum. The JK must claim who they will protect. The JK comes up dead the next day, that person they protected are conf town.

If Jay isn't scum then Gamma has every right to choose whoever he wants to protect. He'll no longer be able to incriminate scum if there's 2 of them left.

[Mathdino]

Oh I wasn't actually trying to read mutant there.

So at what point did you realise that the worst was actually the guy that got mafiakilled, vigged, and bodyguarded, while mutant was the D1 mislynch?

... Fuck.

WAIT LOL MUTANT IS CONFTOWN

MY BAD

Jay fucking forgot who mutant even was, and wrote paragraphs on how he'd advise mutant to not do what he did in Stack the Deck, mistaking mutant for the worst.

Okay, scum is in {Anen, Luca, jmo}.

[jmo16mla]

jmo is the best jail, honestly. vig mutant.

I've got a better idea to not kill me (; buy honestly, if killing me would give you guys that many reads, I'm almost okay with it. But I don't think it's justifiable. I get progressively better as games go on. More on this later.

So. Jay is known for fake claiming as any faction.

We lynch him. He turns out VT, we all agree to vig someone. Before hand if this happens. We also have to find someone to jailkeep. We have to think though. We cannot vig and jail keep the same person. So we vig the most scummy person, then jailkrep the second most scummy person? That way we can clear someone that night.

The jail keeper must state who they are jail keeping also, if Jay is indeed scum, we will have one remaining scum. The JK must claim who they will protect. The JK comes up dead the next day, that person they protected are conf town.

If Jay isn't scum then Gamma has every right to choose whoever he wants to protect. He'll no longer be able to incriminate scum if there's 2 of them left.

You're right. We only decide for the "if Jay is scum" part. Guess I didn't make that clear. Phone posting.

[jmo16mla]

Oh I wasn't actually trying to read mutant there.

So at what point did you realise that the worst was actually the guy that got mafiakilled, vigged, and bodyguarded, while mutant was the D1 mislynch?

... Fuck.

WAIT LOL MUTANT IS CONFTOWN

MY BAD

Jay fucking forgot who mutant even was, and wrote paragraphs on how he'd advise mutant to not do what he did in Stack the Deck, mistaking mutant for the worst.

Okay, scum is in {Anen, Luca, jmo}.

Good catch. Provided all of your town reads are correct.

[Mathdino]

HEAL: Luca

[northsidegal]

there's only so few people scum could still actually be in, then. perhaps ane isn't as cleared as i thought.

[mutantdevle]

So.

Jay is known for fake claiming as any faction.

We lynch him. He turns out VT

, we all agree to vig someone. Before hand if this happens. We also have to find someone to jailkeep. We have to think though. We cannot vig and jail keep the same person.

So we vig the most scummy person, then jailkrep the second most scummy person?

That way we can clear someone that night.

We only decide for the "if Jay is scum" part. Guess I didn't make that clear.

But I thought the whole point of your post was what to do if Jay flips town?

Also, mfw when literally all of us forget about Jay's slip at the start there.

[northsidegal]

i wonder if that mistake really was outside of jay's scumgame. apparently i've already underestimated him once, this game.

[jmo16mla]

At the point of we cannot vig and jail keep the same person would be where the if he flips scum part. That way we aren't vigging and jailkeeping the last potential scum.

[Mathdino]

Okay, if Jay is VT, we can just vig mutant and move on. Gamma's jail will only mean anything if mutant is town, so he should jail on the basis that mutant is town (because if mutant is scum, mutant will just perform the nightkill).

If I HAD roled scum with Mutant this game, I would have told him certain things depending on which one of us is the goon, but let's just say he's the goon in this situation: I will Bus you to save myself if I feel endangered enough to think they'll kill me and play it off as just "being precautous" from a previous experience and getting huge town cred, and distance myself from my other scum partner as much as possible since I'd rather not take them with me should I go down too.

I'm of the general belief that scum doesn't lie when they don't have to. This is likely insight into Jay's scum strategy.

Okay so new plan:

Lynch Jay
Vig Aneninen
Jail Luca
Lynch jmo
Vig NSG

Leaving LyLo of 3/4 of {Mathdino, townslip-mutantdevle, conftown-Luca, Paradox}. In that situation, I think I'd just lynch mutant anyway.

[JaydragonKing]

That's also provided I flip scum, but Dino is in his own land about that particular detail.

Let's see here....

Town:
North: Best bae who saved me the first time and actually acknowledges the possibility of me being an unfortunate townie. Probably should trust her for trying to correct you guys.
Dino: He's in a head high because he thinks I'm conf!scum. I'd accuse him of bussing, but I genuinely don't see why he wouldn't have jumped on our hesitation with townreading Pintu to redirect the kill, if only to hang Pintu day 2 with "I told you so" credit as a town slot.
Gamma: Jailkeeper. Need I say more?

The other two town slots: The Vigilante and the Backup Rolecop.

Hmm. I wonder who you'll solve this?

[Mathdino]

HURT: Aneninen

Given that his scumpartner was being vigged and he was being wagoned, it's entirely plausible that his frustration was just genuine scum frustration/giving up in the hopes that Jay would be the deepwolf with his 100% scum winrate.

[jmo16mla]

Continuously calling me claimed scum when you have seen me do this EVERY GAME as EITHER ALIGNMENT is horrible and you know it Dino. Get off your ass and have your back up plan ready for when I flip Village Idiot.

Uh, vig Gamma and proceed as usual?

WHAT THE FUCK KIND OF PLAN IS SHOOT GAMMA?!?!

OHHHHHH

Dude I thought you were still pretending to be jailkeeper. Right, my bad.

If Jay flips VI VT, Gamma jails whoever the fuck he wants and we still vig jmo or mutant.

Pause. Jay, give me just one reason you brought out the jail keeper. One town motivated reason if you're now clining VT?

[jmo16mla]

That makes no fucking sence.

[JaydragonKing]

To hope the Jailkeeper would let me get shot by scum night 2. Simple.

[Mathdino]

Dude I would've counterclaimed your ass so hard
You also repeatedly said you didn't believe I was a power role, gtfo of here

[mutantdevle]

We're just waiting for Luca and Anen to chip in before we lynch Jay right?

[JaydragonKing]

You think I'd have said "Dino is a Powerroles guys, please shoot him?" To the town?

[jmo16mla]

To hope the Jailkeeper would let me get shot by scum night 2. Simple.

But the jail keeper would counterclaim. So your plan falls through immediately.