Open 714: Tit for Tat [Game Over]

[JaydragonKing]

The very same way I'm Lynch bait but in a slightly different way. Which is why I'd rather not take the risk of having us both be town but be the discussion point of day two in which one of us gets hung and we got into MyLo or even LyLo with me or him as the easy target by process of elimination.

I can trust myself because I got a town alignment PM, but I can't say the same for him. Taking out the fact that all Townies know they're town and there's 12 people and 3 are scum, it's about over a 1\4 or 27% chance of everyone elsa being scum. Your good with Math obviously, Dino, so it's still following along? You tell me the odds when you count yourself as town, and say the probability of me AND Mutant being town together in this situation, WIFOM "me bussing my partner" shenanigans aside.

Now, if we build a wagon on Mutantdevle and he's hung, he'll either flip vanilla townie or scum, so I'll say what will happen if we do that.

If he flips scum: Great, we somehow did that on day one and we give town a huge advantage, especially if he's one of the Powerroles and not just the Goon.

If he flips town: we'll go into the night with the knowledge of who tried to easily push the wagon for different reasons and who opposed it for also different reasons for the Jailkeeper and Vigilante to figure out. Taking themselves out of the equation, they each have a 3/10 shot of hitting a Mafia. Which is good, but Mafia only have to try and shoot 3/8 people left not counting themselves of hitting a PR.

I'm starting to go off topic there so let me reorient myself here: pushing for Mutant as well as seeing the developing counter wagon later on is what I think we need to do.

[Creature]

Continue playing for now.

I need to be less tired to play.

[Mathdino]

Can I ask you what you would do/talk about in the scum PT in the situation that you rolled scum with mutant, knowing he got vigged last game?

[Creature]

Are you asking me?

[Mathdino]

No I'm asking Jay, sorry. Take your time, just know there's a wagon on you lol

[JaydragonKing]

Probably me Creature.

If I HAD roled scum with Mutant this game, I would have told him certain things depending on which one of us is the goon, but let's just say he's the goon in this situation: I will Bus you to save myself if I feel endangered enough to think they'll kill me and play it off as just "being precautous" from a previous experience and getting huge town cred, and distance myself from my other scum partner as much as possible since I'd rather not take them with me should I go down too.

Monk's/Mason's shows what I'd do as a lone scum, so if any of you want to read that, you'll basically see me going Serial Killer and see how I just mingle and forget I'm actually scum and just chat. It's a really effective Strategy too.

Also went off topic again a bit I think but whatever.

[Creature]

No I'm asking Jay, sorry. Take your time, just know there's a wagon on you lol

Can't take it seriously.

[Mathdino]

Jay, do you think mutant is going to be coached by his team through the day? Like, suppose he's scum with A50 and/or NSG, who remember last game. What do you think they'd be telling him right about now in scumchat?

[JaydragonKing]

Right now? Nothing, because I think the rules kinda made it clear that they had the pre-strategy time because they don't have daychat. Feel free to correct me on that but I have no current reason to think otherwise.

If mutant is scum, he'd have to have been listed plans to follow accordingly. He'd have to avoid being put in a horrible situation but will follow any backup plan his teammates left for him.

But when I think of it like that, Mutant being scum makes so much less sense if I don't think he's like me and be Bold as hell with that quick self-vote and bringing all this attention to himself unless his partners specfically made it that way so the two would have no way of being scumread for such a Lynch. Damn WIFOM and my mind and it's infinite, weird thoughts.

Now instead of a read it's a scumlean for Mutant. Good talk Dino.

[Mathdino]

Oh I wasn't actually trying to read mutant there.

So at what point did you realise that the worst was actually the guy that got mafiakilled, vigged, and bodyguarded, while mutant was the D1 mislynch?

[jmo16mla]

No I'm asking Jay, sorry. Take your time, just know there's a wagon on you lol

Can't take it seriously.

VOTE: creature again.

[JaydragonKing]

Oh I wasn't actually trying to read mutant there.

So at what point did you realise that the worst was actually the guy that got mafiakilled, vigged, and bodyguarded, while mutant was the D1 mislynch?

... Fuck.

[Mathdino]

Further question: Have you ever read fferyllt's newbie game, where I rolled town with the worst and Impede?

[northsidegal]

Luca voting me for my streak is funny and probably NAI, North as well, so that's fine. But Mutant's entrance and his little story and subsequent self-vote makes me feel like he's going to play off the fact that his last game with like four of us ended in us having a meta on him to townread such crappy behavior from him. I elect to not let that happen.

what kind of "crappy behavior" are you talking about? you knew mutant was town in open 711, are you saying that you thought he was scummy regardless?

Basically, the earlier I can sort NSG, the more comfortable I'll feel about the gamestate. Probably the greatest balance between "player I can respect" and "player I won't get paranoid of".

what do you hope to get out of me from an rvs wagon? if you're looking for any of the "insight" or such that i think you've talked about before that you see from town!me, there's really nothing to respond to from an rvs wagon. why not just let things play out more naturally?

[JaydragonKing]

I have not read a newbie game since my own, so no.

And the worst (hah) part about this is I legit have confused names and events before in-game. I really thought it was Mutant who was the guy who we did all that shit too. Man I'm forgetful.

For context: I had claimed watcher and I SOMEHOW saw a NINJA commit a murder, but I also accidentally confused who the mafia and the vigilante killed that game and said the wrong name, in which I was promptly kicked in the ass and the scumteam won by (suprise suprise) taking me to LyLo.

So every point I made about Mutant was actually me talking about Worst, I'm just realizing. Shit.

Officially apologies from Elsa Jay, folks. I will now have to literally correct my entire read because I based this one off the entirety wrong person.

[northsidegal]

Oh, Welcome Almost! Your just in time for the fuckery that will be page 3!

Oh, love that the Moderator literally links the post in which the person voted. Makes it much easier to fact check.

Fact check what?

Well obviously most people explain their reasoning for voting someone in that same post, so linking the post with the vote makes it so you can't really have an excuse to not look back at it.

This post is meh. You're acting like this is a great advantavge for town so we can "hold people to their word" but in reality, you can iso someone and it would literally be more informative.

pretty lame thing to hop on jay for – he was just responding to a question that gamma asked him.

Well at least I'm trying to start up a conversation here about topics that are game related.

And for the question about Mutant, I do the same exact thing as scum that I did once as town. I have no doubt in my mind he would do the same.

Right, you voting him has no basis then.

You look like you're trying to play the same way you did last game as town, so that means you've got to be scum... what?

explain what's wrong about that scumtell? if someone

looks

like they're specifically trying to

imitate

a town meta moreso than it seems like they're naturally following a town meta, why doesn't that make them scummy?

[Mathdino]

HOT TAKE: NSG is locktown. Good to know, moving on then.

Jay isn't scum with mutant. Nice to know I guess.

[northsidegal]

Really, complaining about the game being slow when it hasn't even been 12 hours since the day started? am i getting geriatric? i think the pace is fine.

If I was mafia, and since they had so much prep time, I think they would DEFINITELY have a cohesive strategy going on, all following the same plan. So would it be fair to assume they at least talked enough to probably talk themselves out of fake claiming in such a situation? At the very least I know they're not letting the Backup Jailkeeper or the RoleCop do such a Gambit, but instead let the Goon do it.

elaborate on this? are you saying scum planned some kind of bus? otherwise, i don't think scum have that much control over the lynch to where they could choose to stop it from landing on the role cop or the jailkeeper. so what are you saying?

[northsidegal]

uh, what is 75?

[northsidegal]

VOTE: jmo

Feel better about my vote being here.

[jmo16mla]

Right, and I was responding to his origional claim then his reasoning. I'm justified in thinking he was trying to look town there.

I admittedly came out a little aggressive there against Jay. I still like my position there. I didn't read anything Jay said that says he was overly trying to act townie. I just read what he said as that he was acting in a similar way as he was last time he was town, and so now he is scum. Which obviously didn't make sence.

[jmo16mla]

VOTE: jmo

Feel better about my vote being here.

Woo!

[JaydragonKing]

That, my dear, is the ravings of a mad man who had two people as the same in their head and decided to ramble on about weird shit. Carry on.

But yeah, now I gotta figure out which of my arguments for Mutant was because I thought he was Worst... Which is all of them. So forget everything I said about Stack the Deck about him because I did forget about him being the day one Lynch.

Now I have to base everything off the fact he was a day one mislynch and decided to be horrible day one again, which still could be scumread but considering he was actually lynched for similar behavior... Dangit I made this hard on myself.

UNVOTE: to think about everything I done wrong.

[Mathdino]

I'm gonna wait for A50 to decide whether Jay would be capable of faking that townslip.

I trust NSG on this I think.
VOTE: jmo

[northsidegal]

just in general i don't think there's anything mutant has done so far that's "horrible", but from what i've seen of him he generally gets scumread early for doing weird stuff. open 701 it was flat out asking someone if they were cop on like page 2 (which i nearly got him lynched for).