Team Mafia 2018: White Flag — Day Six

[MathBlade]

@Mod:

Is voting for a draw a valid choice?

Voting for a draw, no. However, if you want to go for a draw that is your choice.

[Ranmaru]

Shea: post 3796

1. I didn't push it as hard due to the responses, mostly from Lycanfire, made me feel I was wrong. If I feel I'm wrong I drop things. I don't have the luxury of being informed, so I blindly defend in a manner that taints my image, something against the scum win-condition. Put simply, I didn't push CES as hard because he didn't seem that obvious to me. It's more likely scum take advantage of the situation and bus. Are you speculating that both scum were off the CES wagon, CES? Explain why.

2. That's right, once I find a better direction, I like to switch gears. Of course, note on days like Day 2, I state that my read on Quick is wavering, and I try to talk to him to see his explanation in his play before I move my vote. It's also partly me trying to factor in my team mate's reads with my own, at least I try to without it spilling in thread too much. I'll admit that if A50 hadn't given me his pool, I wouldn't have considered Shea/Lycanfire on Day 2.

3. No, I have been pretty vocal about Marquis having scum intent over dunn just being a lurker, especially with his vote on me, while town reading CES. I can understand having him as null-scum due to his low posting, but not entirely null as Dunn. The difference is that Marquis never actually talked to me to sort me out, he left his vote on me. Marquis was posting more in early game then Dunn, and posted in EOD without really posting before.

4. I was already thinking of giving him the benefit of the doubt since he posted his reads on Marquis and Action Dan, which resonated with me at the time. I didn't think his response was bad at a glance, I'm curious to know why

you

thought it was bad. What meta reasons?

5. Yes, I do use it as scum, and as town. Gamma is right that I tend to lead more as town then scum, as it's hard for me to fake original content and pushes since I would already know who is scum. I buddy so people can work me to work towards the goal of finding scum. I would be testing their reaction. (Getting scumreads on a wagon)

6. When I change my reads, I let the new evidence over-write my previous thoughts. I don't always weigh my reads before changing, I just change on gut/reaction in the short term. Which makes sense. Just note my change on Gamma. Look at what I say before then, and then understand I was reacting to events in the short term. It may be because i'm impulsive (and that may be a weakness of my play I need to temper), and post what I'm thinking in the moment.

[Ranmaru]

Let's talk about my point of view with Gamma. Remember that he (not just him though) didn't follow me on CES when I pushed for him. It rubbed me off as wrong to see Quick, then Gamma, and then you vote when you were all not interested in his wagon earlier. #3211, #3181,
#3152. Especially since I tried to gain the votes of Gamma and Quick and both weren't on board with me. That was my point of view there. CES flipping scum, makes it more likely that I was originally correct on Gamma. In the three man scum team of Shea-Quick-Gamma, he would be the one that would least likely fit in my mind (since there are only three scum and CES flipped scum), so obviously I don't think what I said meta wise the second time applies. Again, it was all sparked by Quick's weird push on me with reference to my Gamma read, but I realize now that again, I was just wrong.

[Ranmaru]

Gamma I have already explained.

Action Dan's #3576 gave me town vibes. I do get the feeling he's trying to re-evaluate, he's just stuck re-evaluating within his nulls, and not his town reads. I also like Dan's #3765. It shows that he's fine changing his mind even when Quick is threatening to vote him if he does. Scum would be more wary.

Shadoweh I find null-town, simply due to her change of read on myself. I didn't expect that today. I don't have much else to read her by, Marquis never really talked to me, he just plopped his vote on me.

Quick, I like his play today. Doesn't seem confusing at all today, crystal clear. I also like his 'it's me or dunn' post.

Dunnstral is null-scum, due to his association (or lack of) to CES. My concern is still with him not coming onto the CES wagon, when he was a null.

[Ranmaru]

#265

#730

Full case on dunn coming tomorrow.

Also, my team has told me I'm being a child re: LQ and that I should at least go through his last post of things I have supposedly "missed" and show how they're nonsense, so expect that tomorrow also.

Like I tried to go through LQs wall this morning and I couldn't bring myself to do so.

Like I ISOd dunn and didn't think anyone would vote him based off of the things I see pretty clearly.

I hate when I read someones iso and I'm so sure before hand that they're scum but then after reading through I have to conclude that its mostly gut.

I don't especially expect anyone to follow my gut.

#3063

The case isn't very good but CES' reaction to it borders on atrocious.

Have you been paying literally attention to LQ this game? Have you been paying literally any attention to ANYTHING in this game besides marquis?

Because I've had to do that like 5 times.

VOTE: ces

L-1.

If we lynch dunn/marquis/ces/NSG we win the game.

#3778



---

Postie thoughts on Shea:
#1321
#1423
#1440
#1449


Postie thoughts on Davsto:
#1111



---
Llamarble on Davsto scum:
#725
#737
#1066
#1067

---

Shea's Defense:
#1673
#1674
#3481

[Ranmaru]

In general, Shea pushes Gamma without trying to understand his argument. His defense to not considering Gamma was that he was just holding that in to see reactions, but I don't think it's a valid defense. Shea tends to push people for ignoring him, yet he does the same to me when I ask about his Davsto read. He responds to his catch up as 'town' yet oddly takes a while to respond to me when I address him. Only after I talk to Llama about it, does he address me the second time. His vote on CES is actually suspect to me. I think people can see it, they are just blinded by the wagon I created to counter CES. It makes sense for Shea to vote his

null town

read after he sees a ton of pressure going in CES's way. Even I was shocked to see Quick and Gamma voting CES, so I would think scum would take this opportunity to seem town from CES's down fall. That is what Shea's vote was. Shea doesn't really do much with his 'town leader' status, he simply pushes for [Dunn, NSG, Marquis] one of which already flipped town. He also has confidence in Dunn being scum yet he can't even case him. In conclusion, he's scum for looking the part of town that is actively contributing Day 1, but sits back Day 2 (voting Eddie) and Day 3. His vote on CES was very late, and more likely him taking the opportunity to look good on CES's scum flip.

Davsto I have already explained. In general, his vote on CES was weak. Also note that Shea seemed to town read Davsto when Llama was confused why Shea was so willing to invite him to the town pile. This is why I was asking him to explain the town read on Davesto. Davsto is also consistent with WGEURTZ, both fall flat and don't seem to have much presence, and he seems to stall quite a lot. Also note that Shea yells at Davsto for not reading the thread, but never cares to mention this to Shadoweh. Shea is getting lazy.

[Ranmaru]

TOWN [Ranmaru > Lycanfire > Gamma > Action Dan > Quick > Shadoweh > Dunnstral > Davsto > Shea] SCUM

Vote: Shea

[Ranmaru]

One of Shea/Davsto is my lylo stack vote if I am mislynched today.

[Ranmaru]

You know this makes sense to me as well, I've gotten the feeling throughout the game he has been sending people out on little excursion to distract from

actual scumhunting

See this is why I need people to give reasons for their town reads, because Im pretty much accepting anything here at this point

Can you explain how you think I haven't doing this? If so, what is what I've done in my previous posts?

[Ranmaru]

That does not answer the question why Dunn deserves to get to LyLo.

We don't win the game depending on if Dunn deserves it or not, we win it by lynching scum. I think Shea + Davsto are the scum, and we only have two opportunities to lynch Shea/Davsto.

[Ranmaru]

Mnaaaah I need this to actually sort people so like, please do this

I want to see you do this too, and respond to my defense to shea. I want to see what you think. Then, I want you to explain your reads on Shea and Davsto.

[Ranmaru]

Going to sleep, more later after work. Also my left hand hurts, so don't expect any in depth posts from me.

[Lycanfire]

How do you feel about the first Unholy Union wagon on Gamma of Shea-Eddie-Dan, Ranmaru? The earlier two votes dropped off, and Dan stayed. He was joined by CES, then LQ. Gamma never went past 3 votes, and those were the two wagons.

Is Gamma always scum with LQ? Start of D3 he went hard on Gamma, which I perceived as opportunism to use my hard D2 scumread on Gamma as a means to gain momentum: interestingly, LQ did the same sod2, on Postie (a CES special), and proxy-RC ended up killed not long after I said LQ never believes he hammers Eddie on a team where Postie can scream him down in daytalk for being an idiot. I don't feel like this is a viable pair.

[Lycanfire]

Ignore my bit about LQ if you want. I read some part about your D3 lynchpool and I'm also jumping around the thread rereading different events and recording responses. I think I internalized something incorrectly and spewed something otherworldly but also dumb.

[Lycanfire]

But yeah you don't seem to have a good reason to go from LQ as scum to LQ as town, all of this feels precipitated on the CES flip, which actually makes LQ look a million times worse.

[Lycanfire]

Worst thing Shadoweh has done all game is pretend to be drunk, not sure if I would argue some kind of LaL...

She's demonstrated to be a voice of reason in posts like 3545, 3558, 3651, 3759. I'm not just saying this because they're voting LQ, I've been letting you anti-town fuckers fight on purpose.

Shadoweh does have to read up. I'm doing it now. I think just about the entire game is readable. The headache zones are early D2 and mid-late D3, but they're also required reading.

[Lycanfire]

Does LQ scum have a reason to kill the other dead townie rather then stop you from tunneling on them some more?

NSG is the EV kill. I didn't actually expect to be killed as the treestump, but yeah she was never dying before administration dicked Team Mafia2018. NSG also fingered Dunnstral before she died. This is something I've never agreed with.

My team is hard claiming cop inno on Dunnstral. Skirt is super done with team mafia and is still popping by every day to remind me that Dunnstral is town and that LQ is scum.

Dunnstral: can you stop fucking your town meta to help your scumgame and do something productive this game you're pissing my team off thanks

more thoughts tomorrow, my reread was helpful but i want to plug it into the vote history to see if i'm vi'ing at all, gnite

[Shadoweh]

I wasn't pretending you asshole, I don't know why you keep saying that

[Shadoweh]

Sorry I probably shouldn't post immediately after waking up but seriously that's rude as heck.
Being the EV kill is fair, that's what everyone's been saying and I did see her basically hard case and tunnel CES to death. I was hoping there was more to it then that.

[Thestatusquo]

Straight up omgus.

[Gamma Emerald]

You know this makes sense to me as well, I've gotten the feeling throughout the game he has been sending people out on little excursion to distract from

actual scumhunting

See this is why I need people to give reasons for their town reads, because Im pretty much accepting anything here at this point

Can you explain how you think I haven't doing this? If so, what is what I've done in my previous posts?

That wasn't exactly the point, I wasn't saying that it's just that it had felt like at times with the amount of things you were asking people to go back and look at that you were muddling up the ability to look at other things. Though now that I think about it that might be a stupid judgment of the facts.

[Thestatusquo]

So wait, your argument is that Davsto is scum and that I'm his buddy so because of this you're voting me?

[Gamma Emerald]

Let's talk about my point of view with Gamma. Remember that he (not just him though) didn't follow me on CES when I pushed for him. It rubbed me off as wrong to see Quick, then Gamma, and then you vote when you were all not interested in his wagon earlier. #3211, #3181,
#3152. Especially since I tried to gain the votes of Gamma and Quick and both weren't on board with me. That was my point of view there. CES flipping scum, makes it more likely that I was originally correct on Gamma. In the three man scum team of Shea-Quick-Gamma, he would be the one that would least likely fit in my mind (since there are only three scum and CES flipped scum), so obviously I don't think what I said meta wise the second time applies. Again, it was all sparked by Quick's weird push on me with reference to my Gamma read, but I realize now that again, I was just wrong.

I guess this is fair. Why wouldn't someone else that you accused EoD3 be more cleared by your logic than me?

[Gamma Emerald]

How do you feel about the first Unholy Union wagon on Gamma of Shea-Eddie-Dan, Ranmaru? The earlier two votes dropped off, and Dan stayed. He was joined by CES, then LQ. Gamma never went past 3 votes, and those were the two wagons.

Is Gamma always scum with LQ? Start of D3 he went hard on Gamma, which I perceived as opportunism to use my hard D2 scumread on Gamma as a means to gain momentum: interestingly, LQ did the same sod2, on Postie (a CES special), and proxy-RC ended up killed not long after I said LQ never believes he hammers Eddie on a team where Postie can scream him down in daytalk for being an idiot. I don't feel like this is a viable pair.

What are you asking here?

[Thestatusquo]

Let's talk about my point of view with Gamma. Remember that he (not just him though) didn't follow me on CES when I pushed for him. It rubbed me off as wrong to see Quick, then Gamma, and then you vote when you were all not interested in his wagon earlier. #3211, #3181,
#3152. Especially since I tried to gain the votes of Gamma and Quick and both weren't on board with me. That was my point of view there. CES flipping scum, makes it more likely that I was originally correct on Gamma. In the three man scum team of Shea-Quick-Gamma, he would be the one that would least likely fit in my mind (since there are only three scum and CES flipped scum), so obviously I don't think what I said meta wise the second time applies. Again, it was all sparked by Quick's weird push on me with reference to my Gamma read, but I realize now that again, I was just wrong.

I guess this is fair. Why wouldn't someone else that you accused EoD3 be more cleared by your logic than me?

This is completely disingenuous. Between the time that I didn't vote for CES and the time you say you were surprised 2 things had happened which you are now conveniently pretending didn't happen.

a) There was a case made and a terrible defense of it which didn't at all fit with my meta of town ces. (something I've explained multiple times and you would know if you were doing more than just cherry picking to throw shade.

b) we were 3 days from deadline as opposed to 14.

You're acting like the circumstances between the two situations are exactly the same but in fact they are different both in terms of my read on ces changing AND in terms of where we were in the day, both of which are sufficient on their own for me to change my vote.

Also, given that you have also attacked me for having "Reads that are too static" whatever that means, its fucking completely ass backwards that you now come and attack me for having a read that changed.

Like, what exactly what you like from me? First I don't reevaluate enough according to you (even though I've been constantly reevaluating) and then when I vote one of those reevaluations who is scum, all of a sudden you're confused by it and it doesn't make sense to you even though it makes perfect sense